The Political Thread

[Grugz]

Yes, really. Also if you  have political beliefs out of tune with the state.

nigel farage better keep his head down

http://www.debate.org/opinions/does-being-a-police-officer-require-being-armed


  I just think people should have more faith in the police  I personally would not feel threatened by armed officers but I think that some of those crims who do have illegal firearms might think twice if they think they'll get shot back at.

  anyway that's my opinion ive said it some don't agree but that's a democratic free speech society for you.
toodles!

[Jim_Campbell]

I do believe he shot them first then lobbed a grenade in. I don't believe arming the police is a bad thing ,yes there will be mistakes made but with the right training surely police wouldn't be running round shooting everyone willy nilly? I went to france once were the gendarmes carry in the week I was there we didn't get shot ,not once.

Look, this is simple balance of probabilities. The chance of anyone getting shot in any scenario where no one has a firearm is zero. The chance of someone getting shot in a scenario where someone does have a firearm is non-zero.

If we allow armed officers to respond to incidents where no firearm may be present (given the rarity of firearm crime in the UK, despite what various sections of the media would have you believe*) this means that in majority of scenarios where someone has a gun, that someone is likely to be a police officer.

The police don't have a fantastic record for not shooting people who didn't deserve shooting, so more routine activity on the street by armed officers inevitably increases the chance that someone is going to get shot.

I would contend that this is too high a price to pay for a change in policy which seems to be a response to an entirely non-existent problem.

Cheers

Jim

*I lived for almost twenty years in a shitty part of the supposed gun crime capital of Britain and never experienced gun crime, saw a gun, or even met anyone who had been a victim of gun crime.

[JamesC]

I've known quite a few Police officers professionally and personally and for the most part I wouldn't trust them with a water pistol, let alone a firearm.
I have no doubt that many Police officers are top-notch professionals and I'd like to think they're the ones being picked to join the armed response teams.

[Dog Deever]

I just think people should have more faith in the police

Sorry, I wouldn't trust the cops under any circumstances. As an organisation, they have proved their corruption, unreliability and willingness to abuse their power over and over again. A quick shufti around youtube for UK police brutality will show you what unarmed police get up to, and someone gives these socially retarded bullies more powerful weapons capable of killing in a split second?
No thanks.

[Frank]

and the black with a beard and  rucksack thing? really?

Yes, really. Also if you are Irish or have political beliefs out of tune with the state

Or if you're a Scottish painter and decorator carrying a bit of wood on your way home, and some folk in a London boozer report you to police because they mistake you for Irish (in 2004, seven years after the Good Friday agreement):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3965207.stm

[Richmond Clements]

I just think people should have more faith in the police

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/something-rotten-in-the-metropolitan-police-corrupt-officers-may-escape-justice-thanks-to-mass-shredding-of-evidence-9215433.html

I live in Inverness. I have seen armed police officers walking around the centre of town on a Sunday afternoon. There is absolutely no need for them. This is, as Jim says, policy by stealth. They have made the decision to arm themselves, despite protests from politicans and the public.

[Frank]

As an organisation, they have proved their corruption, unreliability and willingness to abuse their power over and over again

Yep:

Three hundred Metropolitan Police officers and staff have been caught misusing the force's computers including some who were passing information to criminals. Officers were found leaking intelligence to a gangster linked to firearms, passing on information about drugs, and obtaining computer data 'to assist in criminality'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2621016/Met-shame-officers-leak-data-force-computer-criminals-300-uniform-civilian-staff-caught-abusing-system.html#ixzz39cDSDonx

The Metropolitan Police corruption scandal has deepened after The Independent uncovered the existence of a previously secret investigation into criminal officers that went much further than the files destroyed by Scotland Yard. Operation Zloty, a wide-ranging inquiry spanning at least nine years, found dozens of rogue detectives in the employ of organised crime and operating with "virtual immunity".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-secret-second-metropolitan-police-corruption-probe-revealed-9217620.html

The head of the Metropolitan Police has admitted that rogue and corrupt officers may evade justice because of the "mass-shredding" of sensitive corruption files held by Scotland Yard.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe suggested the decision to destroy a "lorry-load" of intelligence from an investigation into criminality inside the Met was wrong and said such a decision would now only be taken at a very senior level, throwing the spotlight back on his predecessors Lord Stevens and Lord Blair.

With his force facing allegations of a cover-up since a damning review into the Lawrence murder was published earlier this month, Sir Bernard also revealed the force was attempting to open a new investigation into the notorious unsolved murder of Daniel Morgan, a private investigator who is said to have been killed just as he was about to blow the whistle on police corruption back in 1987

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/something-rotten-in-the-metropolitan-police-corrupt-officers-may-escape-justice-thanks-to-mass-shredding-of-evidence-9215433.html

[Hoagy]

http://www.infowars.com/were-all-criminals-and-outlaws-in-the-eyes-of-the-american-police-state/

How doubly appropriate a link!

[Hoagy]

Good-ish article by patriots too!

[Theblazeuk]

In other words - Crime blitz creeps! That's worth 2 in the cubes.


Whenever I hear about these things all I can think is the Rage Against The Machine lyric, "What? The Land of the Free? Whoever told you that is your enemy!"

Not that we are much better here of course.

[The Legendary Shark]

In my view, armed officers are required to keep you in line, not criminals.
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Police unlawfully evicted me with an unsigned warrant and then incarcerated me without charge. Next time I refuse to open my door, will I just be shot to ease police cell overcrowding?
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This is, as I keep saying, tyranny by stealth - an inch at a time. And it's happening because we allow it.

[Richmond Clements]

This is, as I keep saying, tyranny by stealth - an inch at a time. And it's happening because we allow it.

We don't often see eye-to-eye on this thread, Shark, but you're bang on here.

[The Legendary Shark]

Thanks, Rich. I can't claim to know what to do about it but the first step is surely to recognise the problem. My own view is that each of us has to stand against it alone because it's harder to deal with 1,000 individuals than one group. Just consider how much 'trouble' I have caused them, lawfully and alone. Sure, I've fetched up in the mire for now - but I'm far from giving up.
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As many people as possible, I think, should say 'no' to just one thing they don't agree with - but do it smart. For example, if you don't agree with the t.v. license then, the next time you get a bill, promise to pay exactly what they want providing they can show you the contract you signed with them wherein you agreed to pay exactly what they want. They'll threaten and bully you - but that's all they can do because you're not refusing to pay. If you do want to pay, then pay the amount You want to pay, not the amount they demand.
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But that's just my way, my exploration of freedom - each person must resist, or not, in his or her own way. Freedom means being able to choose whether to agree with the system, in whole or in part, for yourself.
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You are the One you've been waiting for.
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[Jim_Campbell]

For example, if you don't agree with the t.v. license then, the next time you get a bill, promise to pay exactly what they want providing they can show you the contract you signed with them wherein you agreed to pay exactly what they want.

Oh, for God's sake. This is not how the law works: not everything is a two-sided contract that can be disputed in the absence of signed consent. If HMRC come after me for not paying my taxes, I can't turn round and say "Aha! You have nothing signed by me saying that I agree to the UK taxation system!" It's the law: I have to obey unless or until I decide to move to a nation with tax laws more to my liking. Similarly, your option if you don't want to pay the TV license is to not own a TV — not paying it is (until the Tories change the law) a quick and easy route to a criminal record.

Jim

[Proudhuff]

Inverness, never had that trouble at HiEx