RIPs

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Very sad news. I sat down to watch the 18:30 ITV News, as I always do but as soon as this came on screen I didn't want to know any more. These horrible events are so upsetting that I don't want to hear all the tiny details as the news teams try to bring us everything. Even tonight at work I've listened to the music channels for a change, as I don't want to seemingly intrude upon all that grief.

I send my heartfelt condolences to all those who have been dragged into this nightmare!

[TordelBack]

Even tonight at work I've listened to the music channels for a change, as I don't want to seemingly intrude upon all that grief.

Well said, that man.

[HdE]

These horrible events are so upsetting that I don't want to hear all the tiny details as the news teams try to bring us everything.

I completely understand what you're saying, John. Much the same for me, I must admit.

I heard about this late, and my first real inkling that something had happened was the number of gun control discussions I suddenly saw on Facebook.

That's the part that really upsets me - that this horrible tragedy has happened, and suddenly there's a morass of people all using it as a soapbox to push their personal stance or opinion on an issue. Yes, it's important, and yes, some of the points made are pertinent and worthwhile... but for goodness sake! Do we really have to go through all of that while the news is still minutes old?

Horrible, horrible events... I just can't fathom what brings somebody to commit such acts.

[mygrimmbrother]

If not now though, when? Before hearing about this I didn't really have 'an agenda', but I think it's fair to say now that I am all for discussing gun control. It's not a soapbox, it's motivated purely by not wanting anything like this to happen again.

[CrazyFoxMachine]

Yes, it's important, and yes, some of the points made are pertinent and worthwhile...

Yes. YES. We can't fathom the world of grief the parents are going through and the depth of the shock - nothing we say can change what happened so how's about we do something useful and try to stop it from happening again (again and again and again and again and again and again)? I think a structured debate about the nature of gun availability or the support that's there for vulnerable people is miles more constructive than just sitting there and feeling sad about the whole thing.

[vzzbux]

I daren't comment on this too much as it angers me so much and fills me with grief.





V

[Bat King]

I only just heard about this here...

Not seen any TV or much internet since Thursday. Glad I hadn't.

All together too much violence in the world.

[HdE]

Yes, it's important, and yes, some of the points made are pertinent and worthwhile...

Yes. YES. We can't fathom the world of grief the parents are going through and the depth of the shock - nothing we say can change what happened so how's about we do something useful and try to stop it from happening again (again and again and again and again and again and again)? I think a structured debate about the nature of gun availability or the support that's there for vulnerable people is miles more constructive than just sitting there and feeling sad about the whole thing.

Absolutely agree!I'm not saying we shouldn't have the gun control debate - just that it needs to be tackled when the facts of this case are fully established and everyone's had a chance to consider their input in light of them.

Gun control isn't the only hot issue this awful event spaks debate on, after all.

[Ancient Otter]

All together too much violence in the world.

Too true, Bat King, and always the innocents who suffer the most. A school at refugee camp near Damascus got hit by a mortar attack earlier this month, 28 children and one teacher killed. Euronews featured a piece a few months ago on a charity group (can't remember which one, sorry)who work with children in conflict zones, the stories from the kids (some around 5 years old I reckon) were pretty harrowing.

[Trout]

It might be more appropriate if you lads take your discussion to "the Political Thread".

[Adrian Bamforth]

I heard about this late, and my first real inkling that something had happened was the number of gun control discussions I suddenly saw on Facebook.

That's the part that really upsets me - that this horrible tragedy has happened, and suddenly there's a morass of people all using it as a soapbox to push their personal stance or opinion on an issue.

I get just as annoyed by Facebook activism when I agree with the cause as much as when I don't. It's just far too easy to click 'share' on an image containing a simplistic political soundbite in large font rather than to research and formulate an argument yourself. If people want to make the argument themselves, using language, then hang around for the ensuing discussion, then perhaps I'll actually read it.

Having said that, watching a representative of the NRA on Channel 4 News, it's clear they simply have no intention of contemplating a change of stance on anything, not even assault and automatic weapons. Cold, dead hands indeed.

[HdE]

You put that sentiment across much better than I could, Adrian. that pretty much nails my thoughts on the whole thing.

[A.Cow]

Having said that, watching a representative of the NRA on Channel 4 News, it's clear they simply have no intention of contemplating a change of stance on anything, not even assault and automatic weapons. Cold, dead hands indeed.

It's easy to look at them as nutters, but when you're sitting in a cabin 20 miles from civilisation and an armed stranger appears, you can see why they take the right to protect themselves so seriously.  Problem is trying to work out where that right stops.

Read an old sci-fi story in an anthology a few years back.  IIRC it was written by a fella in Poland during the 1930s, and it concerned the right to bear arms.  Put within the context of jack-boots marching down your street, it certainly challenged my (traditionally anti-gun) opinions on the subject.

[Adrian Bamforth]

There's an argument to be had, especially when arms already exist; it's just a shame that it's so hard for the debate to be had freely and rationally, away from the identity politics of it. It's become such a pillar of the right.

[JOE SOAP]

It's easy to look at them as nutters, but when you're sitting in a cabin 20 miles from civilisation and an armed stranger appears, you can see why they take the right to protect themselves so seriously. 

What proportion of them actually live in cabins 20 miles from civilisation?

I don't think guns are entirely the problem in the US even when politicians use it as a scapegoat to either ban guns or defend the right to bear arms. A proliferation of guns certainly does't help when some head-case has a grudge but having one of the most unequal, atomised societies on Earth doesn't help either.