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2000 AD => General => : Colin YNWA 04 May, 2020, 06:47:43 AM

: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Colin YNWA 04 May, 2020, 06:47:43 AM
And GO! With the first face off in Qualifying between

David Stone - http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=DAVES (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=DAVES)

OR

Andy Diggle - http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=ANDYD (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=ANDYD)

Whose 2000ad writing do you prefer? Voting (just add a comment here with whose work you prefer (and anything else you might wish to say to discuss their work) closes sometime Monday 11th May?

What the heck is all this about? https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46406.0 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46406.0)

Next face off starts tomorrow...
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Greg M. 04 May, 2020, 06:54:43 AM
Can't say either chap's oeuvre particularly floats my boat, but we'll go Diggle.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: abelardsnazz 04 May, 2020, 08:26:50 AM
Interesting choice to kick off with - I'm going for Dave Stone, due to his fleshing out of Brit-Cit, which we hadn't seen before, and for one of my favourite story titles, Apostasy in the UK.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: broodblik 04 May, 2020, 09:10:05 AM
Also going with Diggle.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Aaron A Aardvark 04 May, 2020, 12:08:43 PM
Diggle.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Professor Bear 04 May, 2020, 12:18:25 PM
Dave Stone, who at least was interesting if nothing else - plus the aforementioned worldbuilding for Brit-Cit, which reformed a throwaway satirical concept in an early Dredd into something more, the kind of salvage work some of us had to wait significantly longer to see for our own little island.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Dark Jimbo 04 May, 2020, 12:33:30 PM
Andy Diggle, for sure.

Even his least effort, Snow/Tiger, is a legible action thriller with a clear beginning, middle and end. Stone's work is mired in that horrible 90's obtuse storytelling style that just makes things a pain in the arse to read.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Woolly 04 May, 2020, 12:37:06 PM
Hmmmmm... I'm voting Dave Stone.
I do think Andy Diggle has a better pedigree of one-off tales, but nothing that beats the first series of Armitage in my eyes.

So, based on that and, as mentioned, the fleshing out of Brit-Cit... I vote for Stone!
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Bolt-01 04 May, 2020, 02:24:46 PM
Diggle for me.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: von Boom 04 May, 2020, 03:36:57 PM
I have to say Diggle.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Funt Solo 04 May, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
Tricky one ... but for pure entertainment value I've got to go with Andy Diggle.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: maryanddavid 04 May, 2020, 11:01:01 PM
Diggle by a sliver,  the first series of Armitage is great, it was a series I grew to dislike. Would have liked to see Stone tackle something else.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: rogue69 04 May, 2020, 11:03:10 PM
David stone gets my vote
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Rogue Judge 05 May, 2020, 02:15:59 AM
Diggle
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: sintec 05 May, 2020, 09:09:55 AM
Diggle
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: TordelBack 05 May, 2020, 10:03:32 AM
Have to go with Dave Stone, mainly because I prefer Armitage to Lenny Zero - although mind you the latest installments of both strips were a let-down.

I have great time for Diggle's editorial contributions, and his extensive non-2000AD work, but if it's specifically writing for the Prog/Meg we're considering here? Stone is my choice.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Richard 05 May, 2020, 12:38:52 PM
Dave Stone.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: IndigoPrime 05 May, 2020, 01:07:26 PM
Interesting point with TordelBack. If it’s about influence, Diggle would win hands down; but it’s not — this is about writing. On that basis, it’s Incubus (so-so) and Lenny Zero vs a ton of Brit-City worldbuilding (that Wagner sadly duly ignored pretty much entirely).

Lenny Zero and Armitage were both really uneven, blasting out of the gate and then going off the boil. I would be conflicted, but I’m afraid the ‘rape smoke’ bit in Lenny Zero totally soured that series for me, and so I’m going with Dave Stone.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Dandontdare 05 May, 2020, 05:27:15 PM
I'll go with Stone on the basis of Armitage
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Leigh S 05 May, 2020, 09:08:36 PM
Exactly this for me too - I'm not overly enamoured of Armitage's Brit-Cit, but at least you can argue it follows Dredd template of blowing up the cliches and tropes of their particular country.  Diggle would have been my choice if it wasnt for the very dodgy Lenny Zero tale IP refers to there. 


Interesting point with TordelBack. If it’s about influence, Diggle would win hands down; but it’s not — this is about writing. On that basis, it’s Incubus (so-so) and Lenny Zero vs a ton of Brit-City worldbuilding (that Wagner sadly duly ignored pretty much entirely).

Lenny Zero and Armitage were both really uneven, blasting out of the gate and then going off the boil. I would be conflicted, but I’m afraid the ‘rape smoke’ bit in Lenny Zero totally soured that series for me, and so I’m going with Dave Stone.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Dash Decent 06 May, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Diggle.

He's great in the Buzzcocks, too.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: AlexF 07 May, 2020, 08:35:26 AM
If I've still time to vote, I'm going STONE.

Diggle is clearly the more accomplished and dare I say it competent writer, but most of his 2000AD work was him practising, frankly - his US work is way better. Dave Stone has many irritating ticks but I can't deny that Armitage, Steel and even top dick Supervisor Judge Warner (and his bowl cut) have burned their ways into my brain in ways that Snow/Tiger and even Lenny Zero have not. And Diggle would never try anything as balls-out weird as Soul Sisters, even if it is legitimately a contender for worst-written strip ever.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Colin YNWA 07 May, 2020, 09:06:59 AM
If I've still time to vote, I'm going STONE.

Yep still time to vote I'm giving these 7 days each, my theory being casual passers by may come once a week and I wanted to give as many people as possible a chance to vote, especially in these early rounds. One of the things I will be asking folks for the later rounds is 7 days too long and should I tighten things to keep thing moving a little faster?
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: abelardsnazz 07 May, 2020, 09:14:46 AM
If I've still time to vote, I'm going STONE.

Yep still time to vote I'm giving these 7 days each, my theory being casual passers by may come once a week and I wanted to give as many people as possible a chance to vote, especially in these early rounds. One of the things I will be asking folks for the later rounds is 7 days too long and should I tighten things to keep thing moving a little faster?

Enjoying these thanks Colin, fun to rummage around in some of the more obscure corners of Tooth. As for voting for later rounds, maybe a 2-3 day window?
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Colin YNWA 07 May, 2020, 09:19:45 AM
As for voting for later rounds, maybe a 2-3 day window?

Bingo - that's exactly what I was thinking - I was going to go 3 days, but ask folks. Great minds - double deckered or not think a like!
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: JayzusB.Christ 07 May, 2020, 09:24:54 AM
I like Diggle a lot, but it's Stone for me.  I love his weird, sleazy Brit Cit.   Deathmasques was the only one of those Virgin Dredd novels I ever read, but it made me realise that Dave had a mind-bogglingly intricate vision of Brit Cit that was very far from the usual 'MC1 with different accents' trope.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Colin YNWA 10 May, 2020, 07:07:31 AM
Looking forward to this post - I'm ringing the bell on this face off. Just 24 hours(ish) before to go before I start to tote up totals and reveal whose made it through to the next round.

If you want to vote do it NOW, NOW, NOW!!!
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Colin YNWA 11 May, 2020, 07:03:11 AM
Wow well what a start this face off gave us. Bloomin' heck I wish I could do a horse racing commentary. It started seeming close but when I did a count relatively early Diggle was actually romping it. So I took my eye of the ball, though did start to notice David Stone coming up on the outside.

Well I've had to count this about 878798 times to check and then double check AND I'm happy to get this verified if anyone fancies counting as thanks to JayzusB.Christ reserrection to the board David Stone had a last mi nute surge and CROSSED THE LINE LEVEL.

Yes its a tie. I have my count as

Andy Diggle 11 David Stone 11!

So the rules start that in the event of a tie I'll take a casting vote. Wow... okay... wasn't expecting that. I'm going to leave the tension in the air a little longer so anyone who wants to check my count can and so I can do one final recount later.

GREAT START FOLKS!
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: abelardsnazz 11 May, 2020, 07:28:18 AM
I got the same scores as you Colin, and wondered how it would be decided. Great stuff.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: I, Cosh 11 May, 2020, 10:10:41 AM
Andy Diggle for me.

Neither is an especially great writer but while Diggle does have a relatively small body of work, I've always found Armitage relentlessly boring in a way Lenny Zero isn't.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Colin YNWA 11 May, 2020, 10:37:53 AM
Oh there's a thing the might Cosh's addition means I don't have to make the call I was actually finding quite hard and with a BIG thank you to abelardsnazz for confirming my count. On that basis our first person though to the second round of qualifying is -

Andy Diggle

- in a close 'race' he edged out David Stone 12  to 11.

My thanks to everyone who participated in this which got a LOT more traction than I was expecting - helped I think by this a really interesting opening one to ponder.

Next up tomorrow the result of Alec Worley and Kenneth Neimand - another one that's turned out to be fascinating.
: Re: Qualifying 1- David Stone or Andy Diggle - Ultimate Not Wagner Tournament
: Tomwe 11 May, 2020, 11:13:34 AM
Stone - Armitage was a worthy read and although Diggle has gone on to write standout strips for other publishers his 2000AD legacy is as Tharg not as droid.