Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.

[sheridan]

Entitled incompetent lies and fucks over his country (and mine) to gain power over everyone's lives, now he finds out what that responsibility can mean you feel sorry for him? You're a better man than I, Tjm86!  Personally I hope he vomits in terror everytime he looks in the mirror.

Yeah - for somebody who wanted to be in power so much, why hadn't he made any decisions in his time in the job?

[Tjm86]

Not entirely sure I would go so far as to say that I fell sorry for him.  He is now finding out what the bed he has made feels like to lie in.  A career of self-centred narcissism, duplicity and deceit really is catching up on him and circumstances are demonstrating how grotesquely inadequate he is for the job.  As someone once said, "karma's a bitch."

[IndigoPrime]

Fuck him. I have no sympathy whatsoever for someone who lied their way into a position of power, and who is now making decisions still in some cases based on ideology rather than humanity. There is no fucking excuse right now. The government should at the very least be mandating businesses close, so insurance can kick in, and introducing some kind of UBI to get gig workers and those who cannot WFH as much as possible out of harm’s way.

If nothing else, I do hope whatever we are on the other side of this recognises that society needs to change. I don’t think capitalism is the problem — it’s our implementation. By all means have competition and companies scrapping for marketshare. But ensure the underlying foundation is solid. Don’t run the health service at 90% capacity. Enact a full UBI scheme, so people have enough money to survive when things go wrong. This doesn’t require nationalising all the things and going full socialism. It means a robust mixed economy, which ends up borrowing fairly equally from Thatcher-style competition and open markets and Green Party-oriented societal changes. If we stick with only the former, it’s going to be the death of many of us.

[IndigoPrime]

Just heard: one of mini-IP’s best chums has a family now in isolation. One of their kids has been sick for a week. Chances that her entire class now has this are certainly now a lot higher than zero. Still, great that the schools aren’t shutting in the UK. What a fantastic plan this is to stop the spread!

[Jim_Campbell]

Just heard: one of mini-IP’s best chums has a family now in isolation. One of their kids has been sick for a week. Chances that her entire class now has this are certainly now a lot higher than zero. Still, great that the schools aren’t shutting in the UK. What a fantastic plan this is to stop the spread!

As Cathy Newman rather waspishly asked a health minister on C4 News: "What's the point in stopping going to the pub if our kids are going to bring this disease home from school?"

Needless to say, the reply was a wall of content-free waffle about being "led by the science".

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

The schools are effectively time-bombs waiting to go off. One Telegraph writer has accusations laid against him of all but applauding the Coronavirus, seeing it as an opportunity to rid the nation of costly welfare recipients. You could argue school-aged children are now Bio-Weapons, used to knock-off granny, but that's just my paranoia. Still, a lot of Hospitality jobs are on the line here, with Pubs, Clubs and Restaurants in the firing line. I doubt the Government will move to save these workers, knowing their Business Donors friends would like nothing more than to pick up bankrupted businesses for a song. The scary thing is, we're just at the start of this epidemic.

[shaolin_monkey]

Close the schools - widespread malnutrition and starvation in nearly one in three kids.

http://theconversation.com/food-poverty-agony-of-hunger-the-norm-for-many-children-in-the-uk-116216


Don't close the schools - spread the virus quickly around families.


The Tory policy of austerity has created a real "Sophie's Choice" here, eh? 

It's hard to see a way out, other than close the schools and get emergency food parcels to 4 millions kids weekly over the next few months.  And ideally forever after.

[IndigoPrime]

used to knock-off granny,

Granny probably votes Tory. Even the government isn’t that stupid.

As for people who don’t have enough money, that’s why I’ve also been saying above we need UBI basically immediately.

[Funt Solo]

Our schools (WA, US) are closed but we will be supplying packed meals as pick-up items, effectively at a doorway location. Schools are currently figuring out logistics for students who live far away, like setting up satellite distribution centers and using the school buses as delivery trucks.

Closing the schools has been an emergency no-brainer. Figuring out how to continue supporting the in-need kids is being dealt with. New rules for this crazy emergency.

[Lorenzo]

... There is no fucking excuse right now. The government should at the very least be mandating businesses close, so insurance can kick in, and introducing some kind of UBI to get gig workers and those who cannot WFH as much as possible out of harm’s way....

I don't normally post that much - so, hello - but I'm intrigued by your anger. I live in Holland and my Prime Minister gave a very statesmanlike and grave address to the nation yesterday. He basically said closing everything down (like France and Spain) would be terribly destructive and, as difficult as it is to say it, the only real solution is for everyone (or at least 60%) to get the virus. Just not all at once.

If a country goes into lock down you will temporarily stop the spread, but when everyone crawls back out into the daylight after a month, the virus will reappear. A vaccine ain't gonna happen for 12 months at least. If you lock down the country for 12 months there isn't going to be a society left, so where does the UBI come from? It's all very well slagging off Bojo - he's a very easy target! - but hibernating isn't going to save us. France, Spain and Italy are going to be stuffed.

The scientific advice here seems to be let everyone that is young and fit get the virus, spread out the infection rate over the next couple of months, and protect the elderly and sick from infection in the mean time. Protecting everyone isn't going to solve the problem. It seems to be an odd virus - most people barely notice they are ill, whilst the very old are very vulnerable, but seasonal flu is a bit like that as well...

[Funt Solo]

Oh ffs. Seasonal flu doesn’t overwhelm the healthcare system, and COVID is something like ten times as deadly. It’s not hibernating, it’s flattening the curve. Do the bare minimum of research, please.

[Lorenzo]

Way to pick out one word from my reply. I have done my research try this:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

[Professor Bear]

used to knock-off granny,

Granny probably votes Tory. Even the government isn’t that stupid.

It's not just granny who's going to come a cropper - society's most vulnerable and sick aren't likely to be Tory voters and they're facing a holocaust.  A few hundred thousand Tory votes at most will be lost, but even if by some evil miracle or statistical quirk that were the single demographic that was struck down by the virus, the Tories would still have enough voters to spare thanks to the sterling job done by British centrists over the last few years.

On balance, the Tories will make out like bandits from this pandemic: fire sales of national assets, super-austerity measures, houses freed up to use as bribes to the electorate, and lots of undeserving chaff culled from the herd.

[TordelBack]

Hah hah, one of my main Iads from work just texted me to say he's in quarantine - a friend he hung out with the weekend before last was on holiday with a confirmed victim, and is now sick as a dog with fever/cough and queued up for a test. Luckily he still has no symptoms himself, and I haven't seen him since Friday - and rumour has it it's the last few asymptomatic days that the most shedding takes place. Fingers are crossed for him, his own underlying health isn't the best, and he's a grand bloke.

But fuuuuuuck do I not want to be going into work tomorrow.

[Funt Solo]

Way to pick out one word from my reply. I have done my research try this:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

The conclusion of that study was that we need to practice suppression (which you labelled "hibernation", and were arguing against.) Not sure why you're arguing against your own research but there's nowt as queer as folk.

Sorry if my reaction to your comparing Covid-19 to flu didn't sit well with you: but I'm flabbergasted as to how anyone can make that sort of "bah - tis just a flu" comparison with a straight face (and without a clearly worn, and worn, tin foil hat). Like the WHO and the rest of the world are all shitting themselves for no reason. Italy's just exaggerating etc. I know you didn't say all that exactly, but it seemed like an analogy, and if it wasn't intended as such then what did you mean by the comparison?