The Political Thread

[House of Usher]

Here's an example of that drive for 'efficiency' in the NHS we hear so much of nowadays...

A ward sister gets her nurses to work 12-hour shifts with a single, half-hour paid break in the middle. Because the break is paid, she adds up all the nurses' breaks over 24 shifts to make a total of twelve hours, and gets them to work one shift in 25 unpaid to claw back what they've been paid for breaks.

There are 30 patients on the ward. There are 3 nurses on the ward during the day, so there is one nurse for every 10 patients. At night there are only 2 nurses on a shift, so that's one nurse for every 15 patients.

The ward sister is garnering praise left right and centre for the 'efficiency' with which she's running her ward. Meanwhile the nurses are getting tired and frazzled from nursing 10 or 15 patients at a time for 12-hour stints, they are being exploited financially, and patient care is being gambled with.

I don't know if any of this is true, but it was told to me by a nurse.

[TordelBack]

Having worked a fair few 12 hour shifts in my time on far, far less important jobs, I'm gobsmacked that anyone thinks it's a good idea for nurses to do the same, and be responsible for up to 15 patients while doing it.  As an employer, the paid-breaks dodge makes me feel slightly sick. 

[Old Tankie]

If that's true, Ush, I'm a Martian!

[House of Usher]

If that's true, Ush, I'm a Martian!

Then I shall smash her lying, nursey face in!

[Robin Low]

Here's an example of that drive for 'efficiency' in the NHS we hear so much of nowadays...

A ward sister gets her nurses to work 12-hour shifts with a single, half-hour paid break in the middle. Because the break is paid, she adds up all the nurses' breaks over 24 shifts to make a total of twelve hours, and gets them to work one shift in 25 unpaid to claw back what they've been paid for breaks.

On the face of it, the bit about making them work an unpaid shift sounds like utter nonsense. Twelve hour shifts aren't really unusual, either. I'm inclined to think there are some facts missing from the story.

My other half has come up with this scenario:

Imagine you're calculating your rota on an eight week basis, with a contracted 37.5 hour week (normal NHS working week under Agenda for Change). This will equate to 300 hours in an eight week period. Dividing 300 hours by 12 (shift length) equals 25 (shifts required).

So, you'd work three 12-hour shifts per week, but for one week in eight you'd work four shifts, all paid and taking into account paid half-hour breaks.

Hard to say for sure without more details, but it sounds like there's been a failure to understand/explain the shift system.

There are 30 patients on the ward. There are 3 nurses on the ward during the day, so there is one nurse for every 10 patients. At night there are only 2 nurses on a shift, so that's one nurse for every 15 patients.

Really depends on the nature of the ward as to whether or not that's good or bad. Also, nurses are rarely the only members of staff working on wards and caring for patients.

Regards

Robin

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Don't forget all those fag breaks!

[Matt Timson]

I once visited my gran in hospital, only to find that she'd been sitting in her own shit for hours.  No less than five nurses were standing around the main ward desk, laughing and joking about something or other.  The worst thing was the feeling that we couldn't even say anything, due to the fact that we'd seen somebody ejected only the day before for doing nothing more sinister than questioning the care that their loved one wasn't receiving.

I'd never judge all nurses based on these events- but I'd like to think that those nurses will get to sit in their own shit for a while one day.  I'd like to say that was the worst thing that happened to my gran while she was there, but it wasn't.  I was genuinely shocked at how lazy and ignorant this particular bunch were, to be honest.

There are some jobs that I honestly believe you have to give your all to- at all times. If you can't do that- piss off and find another job where it doesn't matter if you coast.

[Robin Low]

I once visited my gran in hospital, only to find that she'd been sitting in her own shit for hours.  No less than five nurses were standing around the main ward desk, laughing and joking about something or other.  The worst thing was the feeling that we couldn't even say anything, due to the fact that we'd seen somebody ejected only the day before for doing nothing more sinister than questioning the care that their loved one wasn't receiving.

I'd never judge all nurses based on these events- but I'd like to think that those nurses will get to sit in their own shit for a while one day.  I'd like to say that was the worst thing that happened to my gran while she was there, but it wasn't.  I was genuinely shocked at how lazy and ignorant this particular bunch were, to be honest.

You hear stories like this pretty often (along with bad GPs, stupid midwives, you name it) - members of my family have been unimpressed by some of their experiences, too. My (limited) personal experience of going on to wards is more that it's often dead quiet and you wonder where everyone is.

(Something to remember, though, is that there are a lot of people in uniforms that make them look like nurses that are not, in fact, nurses at all. Obviously, I'm in no position at all to suggest that happened here, but generally I think this is a real issue when it comes to public perception.)

I would encourage anyone who experiences this sort of thing to make a formal complaint in writing to the hospital authorities as soon as possible.

There are some jobs that I honestly believe you have to give your all to- at all times. If you can't do that- piss off and find another job where it doesn't matter if you coast.

I agree with you absolutely. I hate my job, and frankly it's making my life an utter misery right now, and there's a large part of me just thinking remember the mortgage, but there's another part reminding me that what I do matters a fuckload more than how I feel.

However, it does get demoralising when you do give it your all, meet targets, make more savings year in year out, and face a constant increase in workload... and then get told that you're lazy, inefficient and wasteful, often by people who have no experience of doing the job themselves. (Yup, some of us do know what it's like for writers, artists and editors...) It does require a degree of bloody-mindedness and passion to stand up to it, which not everyone has, and I suspect that some staff are eventually ground into apathy.


Regards

Robin

[Old Tankie]

As someone who's had a lot of experience of hospitals, I've come to the conclusion that nurses are the same as the rest of us; some of them are lazy; some of them are caring; some of them are hard working; and some of them are uncaring bastards, just like the society that they're drawn from.  Without doubt, the most caring people that I've come across in my many hospital stays/visits are the auxiliary staff, you know the ones that get their hands dirty, clearing up the crap, emptying bedpans, and washing people.  Quite often I found that "proper" nurses were "too posh to wash"!

I do think it makes a difference what type of ward you're in, I'm sure most nurses in childrens wards and in intensive care wards are wonderful and caring, but I've seen some bad things in neurological wards and geriatric wards.  I know it shouldn't make any difference but it does.

[Robin Low]

Quite often I found that "proper" nurses were "too posh to wash"!

Up to a point, you have to bear in mind that nursing has changed, and many aspects of what is seen as traditional nursing have been passed on to less qualified, cheaper staff. "Too posh to wash" can translate to "more appropriate use of resources".

It's been happening all over the NHS for years and there's going to be more of it - in the labs, medical laboratory assistants are taking on more parts of the work traditionally done by Biomedical Scientists, and Biodmedical Scientists are starting to take on some parts of the work traditionally done by consultants. For those of you wanting more private sector efficiency and organisation, and sharper, better use of available resources and skills, then here it is.


Regards

Robin

[Peter Wolf]

While there is inefficiency and waste within the NHS as its inevitable as its a Bereaucracy that is subject to all of the usual foibles of people particularly in the upper levels of management and that kind of thing it has over the last couple of decades become something of a whipping post used by politicians whenever they want to talk about saving taxpayers money and "expenditure" and that type of thing so it gets far more attention and focus than is really warranted in that respect while at the same time the taxpayers cash that is wasted and flushed away through overseas Globalist military occupations/wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and now Libya which alone is estimated at costing the UK taxpayer £750,000,000 + per month [with no exit strategy while offering little or nothing in terms of value that benefits the UK taxpayer] plus another £70,000,000 spent on a royal wedding spectacle being just 2 examples and thats not going into bailouts and EU payments from the UK.

These things are either promoted as being money well spent or are conveniently swept under the rug.

Quite often I found that "proper" nurses were "too posh to wash"!

Up to a point, you have to bear in mind that nursing has changed, and many aspects of what is seen as traditional nursing have been passed on to less qualified, cheaper staff. "Too posh to wash" can translate to "more appropriate use of resources".

It's been happening all over the NHS for years and there's going to be more of it - in the labs, medical laboratory assistants are taking on more parts of the work traditionally done by Biomedical Scientists, and Biodmedical Scientists are starting to take on some parts of the work traditionally done by consultants. For those of you wanting more private sector efficiency and organisation, and sharper, better use of available resources and skills, then here it is.


Regards

Robin

So as a result of that you now the kind of examples cited by @RL above which are effeciency drives that are partly done by politicians balancing budgets to please the public who want to see cuts or are told that cuts are "necessary" to "streamline" the NHS to reduce the public debt and "expenditure" and the upshot of all of that and all of the overseas miltary excursions and all of govt waste is that patients and staff of the NHS all suffer in the long term and short term.The worst kind of costcutting i can think of.

Its a miracle in this day and age that the NHS ticks along as well as it does when its under stress and attack the whole time.

The UK govt really do see the NHS as a problem that they would willingly hand over to the private sector wholesale anytime if they thought that they would get away with it.

[House of Usher]

Without doubt, the most caring people that I've come across in my many hospital stays/visits are the auxiliary staff, you know the ones that get their hands dirty, clearing up the crap, emptying bedpans, and washing people.  Quite often I found that "proper" nurses were "too posh to wash"!

I do recognize this, and so does my friend who's a nurse. One of the reasons for it is that nurses are, indeed, getting a lot posher these days. Nursing used to be a working class occupation, and to qualify you did an on-the-job college training as a school leaver. Nowadays, because our society has fallen for credentialism in a big way, nursing is fast becoming a graduate job. Some graduate nurses are a bit fancy-pants about having a degree qualification, and the job has in recent years attracted many recruits who didn't get the grades for medical school but want a degree so they can enter medicine by the graduate route. Naturally, nurses who really want to be doctors aren't going to make the best nurses.

My 'source' tells me that she encountered an awful lot of nurses during her training who thought it was beneath them to do certain tasks, for which patients had to wait until someone less important was available to take care of their needs.

[Old Tankie]

Totally agree with you about the wars in Iraq and Afghan, Peter, and our current involvement in Libya is a nonsense, and don't get me started on our contributions to the EU, but, hey, leave the Wedding alone.  Me and the missus have had a lovely day, watching all the pomp and ceremony, sharing a nice glass of Pimms, and hanging the bunting out, lovely jubbly!!  But then we are a pair of old Tories!!

[House of Usher]

On the face of it, the bit about making them work an unpaid shift sounds like utter nonsense. Twelve hour shifts aren't really unusual, either. I'm inclined to think there are some facts missing from the story.

Sorry, yes, you're right and I stand corrected. Apparently she puts in twelve and a half hours a day with a half hour paid break, times three, equals 37.5 hours a week. There probably isn't anything cruel or unusual about the nurse in charge, just that the nurses on the ward feel quite thinly spread and worry about patient care and potential for clinical errors. However, 12.5 only goes into 300 24 times, not 25. I'll have to interrogate her further! I don't know what other staff are present in addition to qualified nurses, but I am told there isn't any slack, and it's easy to see there is no necessary relationship between increased 'efficiency' and improved care for patients.

[Robin Low]

... but I am told there isn't any slack, and it's easy to see there is no necessary relationship between increased 'efficiency' and improved care for patients.

Now I can well-believe that!

Regards

Robin