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Author Topic: 2000 AD in Stages  (Read 37721 times)

broodblik

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #390 on: 06 September, 2020, 11:46:14 AM »
For me the last 2 years has been great. The beginning of 2019 felt a little meh but it picked-up quickly.  Some of the regen progs were a letdown for me (but the last one was great).
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Funt Solo

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #391 on: 06 September, 2020, 09:06:30 PM »
Also added the first prog/meg crossover:

Stage 24 - Don't Believe The Hype...
Meg: Vol. 2.1 (Swimming in Blood)

(This appeared on this thread as a single post, but I've split it into separate pages on the site.)
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

AlexF

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #392 on: 08 September, 2020, 01:16:30 PM »
I maintain that if you split the story and art into separate chunks (which you're not supposed to in comics but I can't help it...), the Prog becomes an x out of 10 proposition (well, there are usually 5 stories).

And with that split, I'd say even the darkest of the 90s managed to get 5 or 6 out of 10 as a minimum. I think it's really only parts of Volume 2 of the Meg that pushed we to actively dislike both story and art on occasion, although rare occasions.

I'm saying a little Kev Walker or John Burns goes a long way, y'know? Throw in a little Frank Quitely or Kevin Cullen and it's like waking up a tired chicken nugget with hot sauce.

IndigoPrime

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #393 on: 08 September, 2020, 01:38:23 PM »
It depends if you value those things evenly. I don’t. Mediocre art can be saved by a really great script, as long as the art isn’t incomprehensible. A dreadful script is for me rarely saved by even the best artwork. To that end, some of the dark days were pretty, but even then I wouldn’t be giving those Progs anywhere near a 5/10.

davidbishop

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #394 on: 08 September, 2020, 01:52:55 PM »
I maintain that if you split the story and art into separate chunks (which you're not supposed to in comics but I can't help it...), the Prog becomes an x out of 10 proposition (well, there are usually 5 stories).

And with that split, I'd say even the darkest of the 90s managed to get 5 or 6 out of 10 as a minimum. I think it's really only parts of Volume 2 of the Meg that pushed we to actively dislike both story and art on occasion, although rare occasions.

I'm saying a little Kev Walker or John Burns goes a long way, y'know? Throw in a little Frank Quitely or Kevin Cullen and it's like waking up a tired chicken nugget with hot sauce.

Alas, Frank Quitely never worked for the Prog! He worked on Missionary Man, Shimura and Inaba in the Megazine, plus the Meg reprinted his gorgeous Blackheart strip written by Robbie Morrison. But by the time I moved over to 2000AD Frank was busy working for US comics.

The bulk of Kevin Cullen's work was for the Meg as well, aside from one Terror Tale and a handful of V13s.

AlexF

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #395 on: 09 September, 2020, 09:26:26 AM »
Honestly, I'd say Quitely's work on both Shimura and Missionary Man are examples of great art saving a poor script - I either didn't follow or didn't care what was happening plotwise, but by gosh I loved looking at those pages. And credit to Dr Bishop for giving young Morrison and young Rennie the chance to get better at what they do. By the third of fourth series of those two strips they were actively intelligible, and eventually rather good.

IndigoPrime

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #396 on: 09 September, 2020, 09:59:14 AM »
In a sense, that’s why the anthology format is so important. You get these young/new writers who quite often don’t click. Their scripts lack something. But over time, many of them grow, and then they can end up writing genuinely classic fare. (The same goes, to some extent, for artists as well.)

TordelBack

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #397 on: 09 September, 2020, 10:13:30 AM »
Definitely this ^^^^. There've been few enough writers in Tharg's stable that didn't get a good script in eventually coughfleischercough, even though there have been many rocky starts. Allowing new work to grow because it's supported by surrounding popular strips by established creators,  rather than trying to get by on its own while it finds its feet, is probably 2000AD's single greatest strength.

Same goes for strips - I would never, ever, have read more than a single issue of a Sinister Dexter comic, but after being exposed to it as 1 of 5 for what seemed like and may have been years, it became one of my all-time favourites. Dante, Grey Area and even Deadworld charted a similar path for me: there was no chance of me picking those up in a standalone 24 page monthly, now my bookshelf is full of the stuff.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #398 on: 09 September, 2020, 09:01:07 PM »
I maintain that if you split the story and art into separate chunks (which you're not supposed to in comics but I can't help it...), the Prog becomes an x out of 10 proposition (well, there are usually 5 stories).

And with that split, I'd say even the darkest of the 90s managed to get 5 or 6 out of 10 as a minimum. I think it's really only parts of Volume 2 of the Meg that pushed we to actively dislike both story and art on occasion, although rare occasions.

I'm saying a little Kev Walker or John Burns goes a long way, y'know? Throw in a little Frank Quitely or Kevin Cullen and it's like waking up a tired chicken nugget with hot sauce.

Alas, Frank Quitely never worked for the Prog! He worked on Missionary Man, Shimura and Inaba in the Megazine, plus the Meg reprinted his gorgeous Blackheart strip written by Robbie Morrison. But by the time I moved over to 2000AD Frank was busy working for US comics.

The bulk of Kevin Cullen's work was for the Meg as well, aside from one Terror Tale and a handful of V13s.

I seem to remember the Terror Tale was about a fallen angel who gave up on returning to heaven having found eternal ecstasy in gruesome masochism.  i don't often find horror in comics very scary, but some of those Terror Tales - shudder.

IP, that's a very good point, and one I hadn't thought of before.  Also explains how we lose so many good creators to the Americans - they wouldn't have stood a chance if they'd gone straight there before Tharg gave them a chance to get good.  Grant Morrison once copied a Future Shock almost word-for-word from a few paragraphs of Hitchhiker's Guide, and look where he is now.

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

broodblik

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #399 on: 10 September, 2020, 04:47:06 AM »
Some strips take time to mature. As Tordel's said some of these strips like Deadworld and even Grey Area I would not even read if it was released as the American model. The anthology setup works for me better. The issue I have is more the long periods between series (but that is a debate for another time)
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

IndigoPrime

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #400 on: 10 September, 2020, 08:45:59 AM »
The standalone model also requires (at least these days) solid early sales. So many series end well before their time. Spurrier’s latest is a case in point. But we’ve even had that with 2000 AD spin-offs—IDW’s Rogue Trooper has no chance (and yet was objectively the best take on the character to date).

sintec

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #401 on: 10 September, 2020, 10:41:54 AM »
The standalone model also requires (at least these days) solid early sales. So many series end well before their time.

I guess one could argue the inverse is also occassionally true and that the anthology model encourages some strips to continue well beyond their time.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #402 on: 11 September, 2020, 11:24:53 AM »
Any examples?  I can only think of a couple - Fleischer stuff, for instance, or Millar's Robohunter.  Other than that there's a couple of standalone strips that were a bit longer than they could have been.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

IndigoPrime

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #403 on: 11 September, 2020, 11:46:20 AM »
Rogue Trooper had a natural end when the traitor general was found, after which the comic had no idea what to do with it. Ace Garp being brought back was an error. Some of the reboots haven’t worked. ABC Warriors has for years been like the looping background in a classic cartoon. Even so, the odd strip outstaying its welcome is easily countered by many superb strips existing that otherwise would not. I mean, can you imagine The Out rocking up as a standalone — especially in the current climate?

broodblik

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Re: 2000 AD in Stages
« Reply #404 on: 11 September, 2020, 12:02:47 PM »
As you said with Rogue Trooper they should have ended it with the traitor general. If they still wanted to do Rogue stories they could have  done it with stuff like Cinnabar. It is still Rogue but before he found the traitor.
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.