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#1
Help! / Re: Rebellion and Rights to Ea...
Last post by Steve Green - Today at 08:34:57 AMThanks!
I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it, might have been other strips - have a vague memory of someone who later became famous being a bit embarrassed about their photostrip work
I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it, might have been other strips - have a vague memory of someone who later became famous being a bit embarrassed about their photostrip work
#2
Prog / Re: Prog 2382: Beware Iron Tee...
Last post by Grush - Today at 08:27:59 AMExcellent line-up of thrills in the prog. I think it's the first time in the two and a half years since I returned that I've loved all five. (normally it's 4 or 3 which is fine, as it's an anthology)
#3
Prog / Re: Prog 2382: Beware Iron Tee...
Last post by broodblik - Today at 07:49:08 AMA Midnight spin-off mister Carroll please with some wonderful Lynch art
#4
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by broodblik - Today at 07:47:22 AMStrange this is the one that got away. I only watched the movie which I enjoyed. Not sure how close it is to the source material
#5
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:31:59 AMPart 3 - Number 82 - V for Vendetta
Copyright - DC Comics
V for Vendetta, as most you will know is probably best known as a movie now. The image of V has become an icon for resistance that has grown out of that movie. The comic has to a degree been lost a little in the mix. Though the good news is that its exposure across different media mean that it is still on bookshelves, still readily available and if not known by all who would recognise the mask, at least known by a lot more than otherwise might. That's a very good thing as for me it's arguably the strongest, tightest story Alan Moore has done. It's not Alan Moore's final entry on this list by a long way, but aided by David Lloyd's astonishing grim art it might well be the best and most important story Moore has told.
Where to find it
It's not a hard one to get hold of this. It's been in print since DC released the comic series. The only question you will face is which version you want to purchase. There's quite a few from the regular trade collection, to 30th anniversary deluxe edition, absolute edition, with a mask, without a mask, however you fancy, all easily available digitally (well except the mask!)... just not the black and white edition I so want amazingly!
To get those earlier episodes in black and white you'll need to go back to the original copies of Warrior in the aftermarket. They are beginning to get a little pricey however, though easy enough to find. As are the comic's DC originally printed, they are out there are pretty easy to get, but beginning to get a little pricey.
Learn more
Obligatory Wikipedia page
A lot has been said about V in many places so you'll not struggle to find out more about this series. First and foremost I'd recommend our Eamonn's Mega City Book Club for a really good dissection of the series alongside Giles Richards.
Then maybe try Off My Shelves has a nice overview - we might well see this channel more often here!
Already a regular Near Mint Condition gives you a run down of the different (?!?) Absolute Editions you can get before you shell out on that if you are thinking about doing so.
There's so much commentary out there I've plucked one from The Guardian almost at random, but just do a search (remember to add comic or the movie will dominate) and you will find a lot of reflections, reviews out there.
What is all this?
Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.
What this all came from
And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines
Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.
Copyright - DC Comics
V for Vendetta, as most you will know is probably best known as a movie now. The image of V has become an icon for resistance that has grown out of that movie. The comic has to a degree been lost a little in the mix. Though the good news is that its exposure across different media mean that it is still on bookshelves, still readily available and if not known by all who would recognise the mask, at least known by a lot more than otherwise might. That's a very good thing as for me it's arguably the strongest, tightest story Alan Moore has done. It's not Alan Moore's final entry on this list by a long way, but aided by David Lloyd's astonishing grim art it might well be the best and most important story Moore has told.
Where to find it
It's not a hard one to get hold of this. It's been in print since DC released the comic series. The only question you will face is which version you want to purchase. There's quite a few from the regular trade collection, to 30th anniversary deluxe edition, absolute edition, with a mask, without a mask, however you fancy, all easily available digitally (well except the mask!)... just not the black and white edition I so want amazingly!
To get those earlier episodes in black and white you'll need to go back to the original copies of Warrior in the aftermarket. They are beginning to get a little pricey however, though easy enough to find. As are the comic's DC originally printed, they are out there are pretty easy to get, but beginning to get a little pricey.
Learn more
Obligatory Wikipedia page
A lot has been said about V in many places so you'll not struggle to find out more about this series. First and foremost I'd recommend our Eamonn's Mega City Book Club for a really good dissection of the series alongside Giles Richards.
Then maybe try Off My Shelves has a nice overview - we might well see this channel more often here!
Already a regular Near Mint Condition gives you a run down of the different (?!?) Absolute Editions you can get before you shell out on that if you are thinking about doing so.
There's so much commentary out there I've plucked one from The Guardian almost at random, but just do a search (remember to add comic or the movie will dominate) and you will find a lot of reflections, reviews out there.
What is all this?
Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.
What this all came from
And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines
Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.
#6
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:31:25 AMPart 2 - Number 82 - V for Vendetta
Copyright - DC Comics
One of the key reasons the book has remained in print, which has enabled the iconography to grip the world, is the perfectly constructed world in which V operates. It's believable and all too chillingly relatable.
As you might imagine Moore and Lloyd introduce a cast of fascinating characters which fleshes out this world and the struggle V faces. Most significantly Finch the head of 'The Nose' the 'traditional' police force who leads the investigation into V's acts. Finch also provides the reader with a character who moves through the layers of power in this state 'The Head' and its different branches and functions and becomes the guide for the reader to the structure of the world V pushes back against. He also to some degree becomes as important as Evey in terms of learning how different 'normal' people can learn to resist due to V's actions and understanding that change can happen.
Across the story you get a perfectly constructed political thriller, with key players all providing different points of view that fully presents this world in which V operates. The UK of this 1997 feels all too real and understood, without weighing things down with dull exposition Moore and Lloyd perfectly lay out their world and what drives the people in it. Power and control, fear and resignation, resistance and hope all sit within the characters to different degrees, and even bit players we see, in a way that allows you to immerse fully into the political and social landscape. This serves as a warning that this dystopia (well I was going to use the word eventually wasn't I, heavens knows why I waited so long!) is all too real a possibility if we allow it, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
It makes V for Vendetta all the more chilling and enables it to have real emotional impact. It makes this 40 year old comic all too relevant and therefore its designs reach far beyond those that know its comic book origins.
Copyright - DC Comics
As I mentioned above however, while that brilliant construction of the world and the guided way the reader is introduced to it builds the foundation of what makes this comic work so well, ultimately as with most comics it's the characters that give it its heart and soul. In some ways V can be seen as a cold, hard comic. It's not dealing with an easy subject, if Evey is the protagonist as I suggest above and she's certainly the most relatable character, well maybe I'll get back to that, then her story in this series is heartbreaking.
When you get to the core of this and put aside how much The Head (the collective name for all the branches of the Government.) and the totalitarian regime it sustains are vial you are left with the brutal radicalisation of Evey by V. V's course may well be very just, their methods are pretty appalling and this is centred on the way he turns Evey to his course. V does some truly terrible things to his protege to fully commit her to the fight. He puts her through almost as much as he went through to become who he has become. The tragic tales of both these characters is incredibly hard to take. This story is as brutal as its subject matter suggests. Yet it's compelling and the construction of the world enables the reader to feel the extremes that V goes to might be justified as they read the story. The fact that V is held up today as a heroic character, regardless of the brutal things he does is testament to the storytelling.
If Evey is the reader's point of view character and the emotional heart of the tale and V is the faceless need for justice at any cost, then Finch is the third aspect of how we react to this brutal world. It would be easy for Moore and Lloyd to paint him as the villainous hunter of the 'heroes' of our story. The cop supporting the corrupt and evil systems, the villain of the piece. They don't however and make Finch a fascinating real character. Evey might not be the only point of view character, Finch gives is a more honest view of how we might engage with this cruel world. He's an effective cop, is good at what he does, yet is far too close to the system he learns is so wrong. He's part of it and 'just doing his job' within the awful controlling government. Like Evey it takes Finch undergoing some pretty extreme experiences for him to realise the system he's sustaining is wrong and he can do something about it, or at least turn his back on it.
Finch isn't a good man, but he's not a caricature. If anything he's the most honest portrayal of how most of us would be complicit in a system that oppresses and it would take a lot for us to get over our fears to enable us to resist.
Copyright - DC Comics
It's hard to imagine I've gotten this far without talking about David Lloyd's exceptional art on the series, beyond his iconic design of V and his mask. Beyond those all important and culturally significant elements David Lloyd brings so much to the series. He's an artist that works in strong contrasts, just as the series does. His use of stark shadow and deep blacks shaping panels and character is just perfect for the story - there I go again saying an artist is perfect for a story, but again here it's true.
As said he drew the majority of this series for a black and white comic and that shines through. I really wish those original stories were available in that black and white beyond getting the original Warriors from the aftermarket. The colours do an effective job, but it can never be more than that. The art is constructed to use the space between shadow and light to give it a solid reality. They emphasise the differences between Evey's innocence and V's now inhuman, unemotional resistance. The almost vapid, washed out colours brought to this do work, they provide an almost subtle wash of dream to the art, they don't try to impose a reality beyond that which the line work provides. I can't say they enhance the linework, the best they can do is not wipe away its strengths too much.
That linework is brave. It's as strong and brutal as the story it is telling. David Lloyd doesn't shy away at all from making the ugly things in V and Evey's Britain as ugly as they need to be. Characters don't come from the glamour of the movies, they come straight out of the kitchen sink dramas of early UK tv. They feel honest and grounded in the world they are shackled in. It really is a quite brilliant piece of comic art. Fitting of the brilliant story.
Copyright - DC Comics
One of the key reasons the book has remained in print, which has enabled the iconography to grip the world, is the perfectly constructed world in which V operates. It's believable and all too chillingly relatable.
As you might imagine Moore and Lloyd introduce a cast of fascinating characters which fleshes out this world and the struggle V faces. Most significantly Finch the head of 'The Nose' the 'traditional' police force who leads the investigation into V's acts. Finch also provides the reader with a character who moves through the layers of power in this state 'The Head' and its different branches and functions and becomes the guide for the reader to the structure of the world V pushes back against. He also to some degree becomes as important as Evey in terms of learning how different 'normal' people can learn to resist due to V's actions and understanding that change can happen.
Across the story you get a perfectly constructed political thriller, with key players all providing different points of view that fully presents this world in which V operates. The UK of this 1997 feels all too real and understood, without weighing things down with dull exposition Moore and Lloyd perfectly lay out their world and what drives the people in it. Power and control, fear and resignation, resistance and hope all sit within the characters to different degrees, and even bit players we see, in a way that allows you to immerse fully into the political and social landscape. This serves as a warning that this dystopia (well I was going to use the word eventually wasn't I, heavens knows why I waited so long!) is all too real a possibility if we allow it, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
It makes V for Vendetta all the more chilling and enables it to have real emotional impact. It makes this 40 year old comic all too relevant and therefore its designs reach far beyond those that know its comic book origins.
Copyright - DC Comics
As I mentioned above however, while that brilliant construction of the world and the guided way the reader is introduced to it builds the foundation of what makes this comic work so well, ultimately as with most comics it's the characters that give it its heart and soul. In some ways V can be seen as a cold, hard comic. It's not dealing with an easy subject, if Evey is the protagonist as I suggest above and she's certainly the most relatable character, well maybe I'll get back to that, then her story in this series is heartbreaking.
When you get to the core of this and put aside how much The Head (the collective name for all the branches of the Government.) and the totalitarian regime it sustains are vial you are left with the brutal radicalisation of Evey by V. V's course may well be very just, their methods are pretty appalling and this is centred on the way he turns Evey to his course. V does some truly terrible things to his protege to fully commit her to the fight. He puts her through almost as much as he went through to become who he has become. The tragic tales of both these characters is incredibly hard to take. This story is as brutal as its subject matter suggests. Yet it's compelling and the construction of the world enables the reader to feel the extremes that V goes to might be justified as they read the story. The fact that V is held up today as a heroic character, regardless of the brutal things he does is testament to the storytelling.
If Evey is the reader's point of view character and the emotional heart of the tale and V is the faceless need for justice at any cost, then Finch is the third aspect of how we react to this brutal world. It would be easy for Moore and Lloyd to paint him as the villainous hunter of the 'heroes' of our story. The cop supporting the corrupt and evil systems, the villain of the piece. They don't however and make Finch a fascinating real character. Evey might not be the only point of view character, Finch gives is a more honest view of how we might engage with this cruel world. He's an effective cop, is good at what he does, yet is far too close to the system he learns is so wrong. He's part of it and 'just doing his job' within the awful controlling government. Like Evey it takes Finch undergoing some pretty extreme experiences for him to realise the system he's sustaining is wrong and he can do something about it, or at least turn his back on it.
Finch isn't a good man, but he's not a caricature. If anything he's the most honest portrayal of how most of us would be complicit in a system that oppresses and it would take a lot for us to get over our fears to enable us to resist.
Copyright - DC Comics
It's hard to imagine I've gotten this far without talking about David Lloyd's exceptional art on the series, beyond his iconic design of V and his mask. Beyond those all important and culturally significant elements David Lloyd brings so much to the series. He's an artist that works in strong contrasts, just as the series does. His use of stark shadow and deep blacks shaping panels and character is just perfect for the story - there I go again saying an artist is perfect for a story, but again here it's true.
As said he drew the majority of this series for a black and white comic and that shines through. I really wish those original stories were available in that black and white beyond getting the original Warriors from the aftermarket. The colours do an effective job, but it can never be more than that. The art is constructed to use the space between shadow and light to give it a solid reality. They emphasise the differences between Evey's innocence and V's now inhuman, unemotional resistance. The almost vapid, washed out colours brought to this do work, they provide an almost subtle wash of dream to the art, they don't try to impose a reality beyond that which the line work provides. I can't say they enhance the linework, the best they can do is not wipe away its strengths too much.
That linework is brave. It's as strong and brutal as the story it is telling. David Lloyd doesn't shy away at all from making the ugly things in V and Evey's Britain as ugly as they need to be. Characters don't come from the glamour of the movies, they come straight out of the kitchen sink dramas of early UK tv. They feel honest and grounded in the world they are shackled in. It really is a quite brilliant piece of comic art. Fitting of the brilliant story.
#7
Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:30:47 AMPart 1 - Number 82 - V for Vendetta
Number 82 - V for Vendetta
Keywords: Social Impact, Iconic, Political, Thrilling
Creators:
Writer - Alan Moore
Art - David Lloyd
Colours - Depends which one you read but the original DC colourisation was by David Lloyd, Steve Whitaker and Siobhan Dodds.
Publisher: DC Comics these days - originally Quality Communications
No. issues: 10
Date of Publication: Well a little complex. Originally appeared in Warrior between 1982 - 1985 but then reprinted and finished at DC between 1988 and 1989
Last read: 2018
The other Alan Moore classic that is widely known by the general public. This one for very different reasons and many know it solely for its most iconic piece of design. Which is a shame as when you get past the iconography
Copyright - DC Comics
is an astonishing piece of storytelling. While it might not be quite as formally interesting as some of his other work, though fair to say it does use the comic form really well it's just a plain great story told really well. It would seem when it comes to Alan Moore his earlier work, when he has less structural and medium based ideas crashing into his work is when I find him most compelling. I am fascinated by story after all, so that should be little surprise I guess.
For those living in a box for the last 40 years V for Vendetta, or V for those of us who can easily forget the early 80s alien invasion tv show and want to cut corners, is set in an alternative 1997 UK. The country has lurched to the right in a way that a 2020's UK population can well imagine and understand. Norsefire now governs the country as a totalitarian government using the state police, The Finger, and controlled media, The Mouth, to rule with an iron fist. Anyone who doesn't fit in with their perceived values, or shows even the smallest of resistance to Norsefire's control is arrested and sent to detention camps.
V of the title resists. He dresses as Guy Fawkes, in a mask that has become so iconic, and cape and initially prowls the night preventing injustice while he plots larger acts of defiance and rebellion. On one such 'patrol', I mean he's not Batman but there are echos, he rescues Evey from the secret police and introduces her to his world. Evey is really the protagonist of the piece and her indoctrination into V's world and struggle is the centre and heart of the story as V plots to take down the fascist government and unit resistance while he is hunted by the authorities he opposes.
Copyright - DC Comics
V has a long history. The prototype for the strip was conceived in 1975 by the then unknown Moore as 'The Doll', but the publishers he showed this to passed on the idea. When Dez Skinn was putting together Warrior he approached Moore for ideas similar to Night Raven, the noir crime fighter created at Marvel UK under Skinn's watch, to work on with David Lloyd. Moore unearthed the idea of The Doll, and used it as a launching point which developed into V for Vendetta. Moore added a host of other influences to that basic idea. The list of which appears in many reprints in the essay 'Behind the Painted Smile" - it's quite the list!
David Lloyd then took the concept and arguably developed the single most important aspect - the mask and Guy Fawkes design for V. Certainly the most important aspect in terms of the way V for Vendetta has filtered into the public consciousness. The mask has become a symbol of anonymous rebellion against a host of establishment institutions. For many the understanding of the meaning of the mask might not even stem from Lloyd's comics, it might be from the movie that was made of the comics. Or even from the fact as it became adopted by more and more protestors it was plastered all over the media and social media independent of its comic or film context. Regardless of where any individual's knowledge might come from its origin and what it stands for all comes from Lloyd's brilliant design.
The design first appeared as V for Vendetta was first published in 1982 in the anthology Warrior and appeared in almost all of the published issues, up to issue 26 in 1985. Two further episodes for Warrior remained unpublished. Issue 26 finished on quite the cliffhanger that is much better discussed by our own Eammon Clark and Giles Richards in the Mega City Book Club - link below.
Numerous offers came Moore and Lloyd's way to complete the series (and one assumes Warriors publisher Dez Skinn who always has a finger in the pie it would seem). In 1988 DC purchased the rights and started to reprint the episodes that had run in Warrior, now coloured, in US format comics. The reprint including the two unpublished parts filled 7 issues, and Moore and Lloyd produced a further 3 issues to conclude the story in 1989. It would be Alan Moore's last published work for DC, well deliberately published work for DC. Like Watchmen it's stayed in print ever since. Though bafflingly never as a black and white edition - unlike many comics including Watchmen - I think many folks, myself included, would love to have a black white reprint. Even though the colour work is absolutely fine.
Number 82 - V for Vendetta
Keywords: Social Impact, Iconic, Political, Thrilling
Creators:
Writer - Alan Moore
Art - David Lloyd
Colours - Depends which one you read but the original DC colourisation was by David Lloyd, Steve Whitaker and Siobhan Dodds.
Publisher: DC Comics these days - originally Quality Communications
No. issues: 10
Date of Publication: Well a little complex. Originally appeared in Warrior between 1982 - 1985 but then reprinted and finished at DC between 1988 and 1989
Last read: 2018
The other Alan Moore classic that is widely known by the general public. This one for very different reasons and many know it solely for its most iconic piece of design. Which is a shame as when you get past the iconography
Copyright - DC Comics
is an astonishing piece of storytelling. While it might not be quite as formally interesting as some of his other work, though fair to say it does use the comic form really well it's just a plain great story told really well. It would seem when it comes to Alan Moore his earlier work, when he has less structural and medium based ideas crashing into his work is when I find him most compelling. I am fascinated by story after all, so that should be little surprise I guess.
For those living in a box for the last 40 years V for Vendetta, or V for those of us who can easily forget the early 80s alien invasion tv show and want to cut corners, is set in an alternative 1997 UK. The country has lurched to the right in a way that a 2020's UK population can well imagine and understand. Norsefire now governs the country as a totalitarian government using the state police, The Finger, and controlled media, The Mouth, to rule with an iron fist. Anyone who doesn't fit in with their perceived values, or shows even the smallest of resistance to Norsefire's control is arrested and sent to detention camps.
V of the title resists. He dresses as Guy Fawkes, in a mask that has become so iconic, and cape and initially prowls the night preventing injustice while he plots larger acts of defiance and rebellion. On one such 'patrol', I mean he's not Batman but there are echos, he rescues Evey from the secret police and introduces her to his world. Evey is really the protagonist of the piece and her indoctrination into V's world and struggle is the centre and heart of the story as V plots to take down the fascist government and unit resistance while he is hunted by the authorities he opposes.
Copyright - DC Comics
V has a long history. The prototype for the strip was conceived in 1975 by the then unknown Moore as 'The Doll', but the publishers he showed this to passed on the idea. When Dez Skinn was putting together Warrior he approached Moore for ideas similar to Night Raven, the noir crime fighter created at Marvel UK under Skinn's watch, to work on with David Lloyd. Moore unearthed the idea of The Doll, and used it as a launching point which developed into V for Vendetta. Moore added a host of other influences to that basic idea. The list of which appears in many reprints in the essay 'Behind the Painted Smile" - it's quite the list!
David Lloyd then took the concept and arguably developed the single most important aspect - the mask and Guy Fawkes design for V. Certainly the most important aspect in terms of the way V for Vendetta has filtered into the public consciousness. The mask has become a symbol of anonymous rebellion against a host of establishment institutions. For many the understanding of the meaning of the mask might not even stem from Lloyd's comics, it might be from the movie that was made of the comics. Or even from the fact as it became adopted by more and more protestors it was plastered all over the media and social media independent of its comic or film context. Regardless of where any individual's knowledge might come from its origin and what it stands for all comes from Lloyd's brilliant design.
The design first appeared as V for Vendetta was first published in 1982 in the anthology Warrior and appeared in almost all of the published issues, up to issue 26 in 1985. Two further episodes for Warrior remained unpublished. Issue 26 finished on quite the cliffhanger that is much better discussed by our own Eammon Clark and Giles Richards in the Mega City Book Club - link below.
Numerous offers came Moore and Lloyd's way to complete the series (and one assumes Warriors publisher Dez Skinn who always has a finger in the pie it would seem). In 1988 DC purchased the rights and started to reprint the episodes that had run in Warrior, now coloured, in US format comics. The reprint including the two unpublished parts filled 7 issues, and Moore and Lloyd produced a further 3 issues to conclude the story in 1989. It would be Alan Moore's last published work for DC, well deliberately published work for DC. Like Watchmen it's stayed in print ever since. Though bafflingly never as a black and white edition - unlike many comics including Watchmen - I think many folks, myself included, would love to have a black white reprint. Even though the colour work is absolutely fine.
#8
Prog / Re: Prog 2382: Beware Iron Tee...
Last post by Colin YNWA - Today at 07:03:47 AMQuote from: broodblik on Today at 03:37:05 AMIt might be Proteus Vex end but no need to end the vexverse
That would be very cool.
#9
General / Re: Forthcoming Thrills - 2024
Last post by O Lucky Stevie! - Today at 06:52:04 AMQuote from: BPP on 06 May, 2024, 09:29:06 AMOr maybe he just means the convention. Hummmmm....
Simon Fraser will be selling some of his Dante pages at Lawless. Oh you lucky devils...
#10
Off Topic / Re: Boys Adventure comic blog
Last post by Richard S. - Today at 06:41:23 AMmore original art by Eric Parker - he's still on his holidays, this time he's in Calvi (in Corsica)
https://boysadventurecomics.blogspot.com/2024/05/eric-parker-overseas-part-4-of-10.html
https://boysadventurecomics.blogspot.com/2024/05/eric-parker-overseas-part-4-of-10.html