The Political Thread

[GordonR]

Oh, I don't think we've seen the last of Farage yet.

Which reminds me, where have our two brave resident UKIP warriors gone?  Their dreams have come true, and yet we haven't seen them here since before the referendum.

[Hawkmumbler]

I'm sorry, who? The boards been hoarding kippers?

[The Legendary Shark]

Probably still drunk...

[JayzusB.Christ]

Oh, I don't think we've seen the last of Farage yet.

Which reminds me, where have our two brave resident UKIP warriors gone?  Their dreams have come true, and yet we haven't seen them here since before the referendum.
[/quote

Which brings home how insane it all is - a referendum where so many winning campaigners and voters are either keeping their heads down or running scared.

[ZenArcade]

It looks as if the bean counters have let Boris, Nigel and all of the other sub-ameobas know what's lying (no pun) down the road for the rest of us; so in the best traditions of the spoiled, cossetted ruling classes, they have scarpered and left the commoners to deal with the aftermath. Ding dong old fellow and all that shite. Z

[Trent]

Nigel Farage - "I've done my bit".
Never a truer word - weasely fecker.

[JamesC]

Boris Johnson's take on things (as shared on Facebook):




On Friday I heard a new dawn chorus outside my house. There was a rustling and twittering, as though of starlings assembling on a branch. Then I heard a collective clearing of the throat, and they started yodelling my name – followed by various expletives. "Oi Boris – c---!" they shouted. Or "Boris – w-----!" I looked out to see some otherwise charming-looking young people, the sort who might fast to raise money for a Third World leprosy project.
They had the air of idealists – Corbynistas; Lefties; people who might go on a march to stop a war. And so when they started on their protest song, I found myself a bit taken aback. "EU – we love YOU! EU – we love YOU!" they began to croon. Curious, I thought. What exactly is it about the EU that attracts the fervent admiration of north London radicals? It was the first time I had ever heard of trendy socialists demonstrating in favour of an unelected supranational bureaucracy.
In the old days, the Lefties used to dismiss the EU as a bankers' ramp. Tony Benn thought it was unacceptably anti-democratic. Jeremy Corbyn used to vote against it in every division. Why has it suddenly become so fashionable among our nose-ringed friends? I tried to think which of the EU's signature policies they were so keen on. Surely not the agricultural subsidies that make up most of the budget, and that have done so much to retard development in the Third World. They can't – for heaven's sake – support the peak tariffs that discriminate against value added goods from Sub-Saharan Africa. Nor can they possibly enjoy the sheer opacity of the system – the fact that there are 10,000 officials who are paid more than the Prime Minister, and whose names and functions we don't know.
They can't really be defending the waste, the fraud – or the endless expensive caravan of crémant-swilling members of the European Parliament between Brussels and Luxembourg and Strasbourg. Are they really demonstrating in favour of the torrent of red tape that has done so much to hold back growth in the EU? It seems an odd sort of campaign theme: what do we want? More Brussels law-making! When do we want it? Now!
Naturally, Lefties might want laws to protect the workforce – but they would surely want those laws to be made by politicians that the people could remove at elections. No: the more I thought about it, the odder it seemed. It was incredible that these young and idealistic people should be making a rumpus about the euro – the key policy of the modern EU – when that project has so gravely intensified suffering in many southern EU countries, and deprived a generation of young people of employment.
Perhaps, I mused, it was a general feeling that the EU was about openness, tolerance and diversity. But they must surely know that the EU's rules on free movement mean a highly discriminatory regime, one that makes it much more difficult for people from outside the EU to get into Britain – even though we need their skills.
So what was it about? People's emotions matter, even when they do not seem to be wholly rational. The feelings being manifested outside my house are shared by the large numbers of people – 30,000, they say – who at the weekend came together in Trafalgar Square to hear pro-EU speeches by Sir Bob Geldof. There is, among a section of the population, a kind of hysteria, a contagious mourning of the kind that I remember in 1997 after the death of the Princess of Wales. It is not about the EU, of course; or not solely. A great many of these protesters – like dear old Geldof – are in a state of some confusion about the EU and what it does.
It is not, as he says, a "free trade area"; if only it were. It is a vast and convoluted exercise in trying to create a federal union – a new political construction based in Brussels. But, as I say, I don't believe that it is psychologically credible to imagine young people chanting hysterically in favour of Brussels bureaucrats. The whole protest is not about the EU project, per se; it is about them – their own fears and anxieties that are now being projected on to Brexit.
These fears are wildly overdone. The reality is that the stock market has not plunged, as some said it would – far from it. The FTSE is higher than when the vote took place. There has been no emergency budget, and nor will there be. But the crowds of young people are experiencing the last psychological tremors of Project Fear – perhaps the most thoroughgoing government attempt to manipulate public opinion since the run-up to the Iraq War.
When Geldof tells them that the older generation has "stolen your future" by voting to Leave the EU, I am afraid there are too many who still believe it. It is time for this nonsense to end. It was wrong of the Government to offer the public a binary choice on the EU without being willing – in the event that people voted Leave – to explain how this can be made to work in the interests of the UK and Europe. We cannot wait until mid-September, and a new PM. We need a clear statement, now, of some basic truths:
1. There is no risk whatever to the status of the EU nationals now resident and welcome in the UK, and indeed immigration will continue – but in a way that is controlled, thereby neutralising the extremists.
2. It is overwhelmingly in the economic interests of the other EU countries to do a free-trade deal, with zero tariffs and quotas, while we extricate ourselves from the EU law-making system.
3. We can do free-trade deals with economies round the world, many of which are already applying.
4. We can supply leadership in Europe on security and other matters, but at an intergovernmental level.
5. The future is very bright indeed. That's what Geldof should be chanting.

[Jim_Campbell]

The words of Boris Johnson, a man who was enthusiastically in favour of the EU, right up until he realised he wanted to be PM more than any principle he held? A man prepared to stand up for a cause he didn't believe in and spout outright lies, to legitimise racists and embolden the far right, to tank the economy and crash the currency, all in service of his personal ambition?

Pardon me if I pay not the slightest attention to anything he has to say. The ruination of his political career is the is one of the small crumbs of comfort I take from this whole sorry mess.

[JamesC]

I thought it was bit funny that after all of this his number one point is still to do with controlling immigration from the EU to 'neutralise the extremists'.
I can't remember reading about any extremists who were migrants from the EU anyway.

[Modern Panther]

Now,we all know that the easiest way for IS to attack Britain would be to hide amongst refugees, almost die trying to take a boat to Greece, walk hundreds of miles across the continent,  live for months in a refugee camp in France, hide in a truck, to finally arrive in England without a penny to their name. Far better we devastate our own economy than take that risk.

They had the air of idealists – Corbynistas; Lefties;

I fucking hate this guy

1. There is no risk whatever to the status of the EU nationals now resident and welcome in the UK, and indeed immigration will continue – but in a way that is controlled, thereby neutralising the extremists.
2. It is overwhelmingly in the economic interests of the other EU countries to do a free-trade deal, with zero tariffs and quotas, while we extricate ourselves from the EU law-making system.
3. We can do free-trade deals with economies round the world, many of which are already applying.
4. We can supply leadership in Europe on security and other matters, but at an intergovernmental level.
5. The future is very bright indeed. That's what Geldof should be chanting.

1. Yet to be decided.  They've already been described as bargaining tools, whilst xenophobic crime has shot up and racists have come to believe that the establishment is on their side.
2. No it's not, and we can't.
3. Awesome.  Well done.
4. We could do that anyway.
5. We're already poorer.  Scottish independence has gain unprecedented support, making the break up of the UK more likely. Corporate taxes will be slashed to try to stop us from sinking.  And that's all before PM May has decided to do away with workers rights and privacy laws.

[IndigoPrime]

Also:

The FTSE is higher than when the vote took place.

On the devaluation of Sterling, yes. And on the back of non-UK companies faring well. The 250, based on UK companies, is still getting a kicking.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Oh, I don't think we've seen the last of Farage yet.

Which reminds me, where have our two brave resident UKIP warriors gone?  Their dreams have come true, and yet we haven't seen them here since before the referendum.

I presume you will be meaning me with that insinuation. Let's get this right, I vote for the Liberals and I'm sure that shocks your closed mind. Also I am way too nice to come back and gloat that I got the result that I wanted.

I wanted out of the EU for Democracy and for the basic fact that it was built on a lie. All you have to do is look at the way that Democracy is not encouraged across the continent.

I've watched quietly how the remain side have acted on facebook, especially with two of my favourite 2000 AD artists being hounded until one closed his account and another has taken a period of leave.  I did see the names from here pop up on those pages slating them with their cyber bullying and expected it from some people here but not certain other names.

Before you ask, no I have not seen any of the racist stuff on facebook, apart from the reports on others pages, probably as I don't go in search of stuff like that, as I see it on the news and hear about it on the radio. Those people are disgraceful.

After the vote result came in around 04:00, as I was listening to it on the radio I was obviously happy, as now we will see our government work for the referendum result. If it had gone the other way, of course I would have been annoyed but I can tell you a couple of things. I wouldn't have tried to undermine democracy. I wouldn't have gone on a social warrior rampage across the web because I didn't get my own way. I would never have gone onto peoples facebook pages and hounded them because their ideas are different to my own. I most definitely wouldn't have condoned violence, which I have seen board members do from here.

I had debates on facebook pages with mates and we did it politely as we put our points across without ending our friendships. It's quite simple doing it that way, unlike the pack culture sweeping across the web. It's like the Borg have burst into reality.

I watched people on here fall into the sad camp of saying that all who voted out are racists, which baffled me, as there can only ever be one reason that people voted out. I'm sure some did but not that many, even with all those reports coming in. It's a tiny percentage, otherwise there would be riots on the streets, as those people tried to force people to leave.

As for the economy, I knew it would take a hit straight afterwards (if you didn't believe that then that's your fault) but the doom and gloom scenario did not really happen. I feel that the politicians and the Whitehall lot now have to prove that they are worth their wages and do what is best for the country. Once negotiations are open we will see where we are headed!

Now I could tell you what two of my Eastern European friends at work have said to me but that wouldn't fit into what many believe on here.

I shall take my leave once again, as I need to spend some more of my money on Dredd tat!

[ZenArcade]

  Don't and won't agree with the Brexit vote CF, but I like a good honest from the heart post. Z

[Trent]

Likewise, I regret the result but the vote took place and now we have to embrace the new reality and get on with it or simply stand on the sidelines shaking our fists and saying I told you so.
The worry is that by doing so we let the politicos blame everything on Brexit for the next 10 years and they don't make the best fist of where we now are.

[Jim_Campbell]

Likewise, I regret the result but the vote took place and now we have to embrace the new reality and get on with it

Fuck that. The Leave campaign lied time and time again. They lied about reducing red tape, they lied about extra money for the NHS and public services, they lied about reducing immigration and, worst of all they lied about having the slightest idea what they would do if they won.

The currency is in the shitter, the economy's stalled, all the major financial firms are eyeing up Dublin, Frankfurt and Paris as they get ready to leave London, and the Leave campaign's overarching strategy appears to have begun and ended at 'stick two fingers up to Johnny Foreigner'.

They broke it. They can fucking fix it.