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Spoilers => Megazine => Topic started by: Eamonn Clarke on 13 December, 2014, 02:38:13 PM

Title: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 13 December, 2014, 02:38:13 PM
Wagner and Flint's Dead Zone finishes.
New American Reaper and DeMarco P.I. strips
And an Al Ewing and Ben Willsher Dredd begins
The Interrogation is Si Spencer and there is a short story by Jonathan Green

Plus a seasonal wraparound cover.

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/Meg355_zps4fd0cace.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/Meg355b_zps33981636.jpg)
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 13 December, 2014, 02:47:38 PM
The floppy is Plagues of Necropolis by Si Spencer, Jim O'Ready, Pete Venters, Simon Davis and Stuart Mack
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 13 December, 2014, 02:56:36 PM
(https://2000ad.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tumblr_ngby4kt7y11qf427ko3_r1_1280.jpg?w=627)
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Ghost MacRoth on 13 December, 2014, 03:03:12 PM
American Reaper. 

Please, please, PLEASE stop.  Just.....stop.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Richard on 13 December, 2014, 05:29:38 PM
I really liked The Dead Zone, and this had a satisfying conclusion.

Intrigued by The Cop and looking forward to seeing how it is going.

I'm pleased to see the return of American Reaper. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but I enjoy it.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: dweezil2 on 13 December, 2014, 05:38:44 PM
Yeah, I've been enjoying American Reaper too, so no complaints from me!   ;)
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: glassstanley on 14 December, 2014, 11:16:36 AM
Love this issue's American Reaper.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Daveycandlish on 14 December, 2014, 08:07:28 PM
Good finale to the Dredd story.
Nice to see DiMarco back with the nice minimalist lines of Steve Yeowell and a good start to the Cop tale.
The Si Spencer interview is entertaining as the creator interviews always are.
I'm not a fan of American Reaper so for me, that's the weak link in what is othewise a great line up in the Meg
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Prodigal2 on 16 December, 2014, 01:39:34 PM
How many pages of Reaper are involved?
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: James Stacey on 16 December, 2014, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: Prodigal2 on 16 December, 2014, 01:39:34 PM
How many pages of Reaper are involved?
18  :o
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Prodigal2 on 16 December, 2014, 01:42:52 PM
Quote from: James Stacey on 16 December, 2014, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: Prodigal2 on 16 December, 2014, 01:39:34 PM
How many pages of Reaper are involved?
18  :o

Sitting here sobbing my heart out James.............
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Spaceghost on 16 December, 2014, 01:43:41 PM
Quote from: James Stacey on 16 December, 2014, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: Prodigal2 on 16 December, 2014, 01:39:34 PM
How many pages of Reaper are involved?
18  :o

And NOTHING HAPPENS.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Prodigal2 on 16 December, 2014, 01:54:20 PM
Anybody know how long Reaper features this time?

Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Dandontdare on 16 December, 2014, 03:09:48 PM
I never skip stories, even if I don't like them but I found my eyeballs sliding over the Reaper pages and it took a feat of concentration to take anything in. Why does this strip get such a disproportionate space in the Meg - 18 pages, and as Spaceghost says (almost) nothing happens.

Liked everything else though, so not a bad Meg overall.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Skullmo on 16 December, 2014, 03:11:52 PM
I love Reaper!
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Proudhuff on 16 December, 2014, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 16 December, 2014, 03:09:48 PM
I never skip stories, even if I don't like them but I found my eyeballs sliding over the Reaper pages and it took a feat of concentration to take anything in. Why does this strip get such a disproportionate space in the Meg - 18 pages, and as Spaceghost says (almost) nothing happens.

Liked everything else though, so not a bad Meg overall.

Took me three attempts, got there eventually... Lordy lordy, why does everyone look the same? and its so dark, I'm assuming on screen these are loverly bright pixes colours sharply defined, but on the printed page it just doesn't work sorry chums. Otherwise a wonderful Meg with a Christmas cracker of a cover from Crimbo Colin!

Great to see what's happening in Dreddverse France, interesting Si interview too, Marco heads off in a new direction and a xmas Dredd or did I imagine that?

This, the bumper end of year prog and a pile of comics from FP made my rather crap week/weekend bearable, thanks Mighty One!
Just drop the Sexy Ostriches pleeease? 
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: IronGraham on 16 December, 2014, 07:55:30 PM
Going to skip American reaper this time just not for me prefer clints work on robots
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: sheridan on 17 December, 2014, 06:43:39 PM
It's not just me (and my girlfriend) reading that cover in the voice of Kevin Bloody Wilson, is it?
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: robert_ellis on 18 December, 2014, 09:12:37 PM
I'd been looking forward to Judge Death's return in the prog so much, but it was the prologue "the cop" in the Meg that had me grinning from ear to ear. Al Ewing knows how to fit so much into ten pages. Amazing stuff. I love the quality and variety of the meg at the moment - my eyes almost hurt adjusting from the gloom of Reaper to the sparse white pages of Demarco.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Fontwell Magma on 19 December, 2014, 09:16:47 AM
I genuinely enjoy Reaper - and even liked the last series. I wasn't on board for the first so I'm hoping it will be collected at some point - I might be in a minority here though.

I just really like the premise, and although the artwork is sometimes hit and miss, I like how different it is to everything else I'm reading. A Reaper film would be at least a watchable sci-fi thriller!
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Toni Scandella on 23 December, 2014, 02:28:21 PM
I thought all five stories were great - American Reaper looked great on the laptop screen (pleasingly for a digital reader there were no double page spreads which are a bit of a pain as they are never joined when you buy the progs / megs - not hard on a computer but a bit of a bugger on a tablet) and I like the story!  The Cop was the highlight, and Dead Zone, Demarco and the text story were all decent reads too. 

The floppy... never liked Plagues of Necropolis in its day, but all togethe it read OK if a bit overly grim!  Backing it up with a fun Judge Death story levelled it out a bit, good idea to add that in!

Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 23 December, 2014, 02:46:05 PM
Reaper bores the ever loving shit out of me. Hardly read the first series, and didn't bother with the second nor this one either.

Both Dredds where ace and the start of the new Demarco story was great mind you.

And Plagues of Necropolis had a better hit to miss ratio than I expected. In that I actualy liked two out of the lot.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: TordelBack on 23 December, 2014, 02:46:58 PM
First Meg for a while, and a very solid comic.  Best thing was the cover, which was one great gag after another: 'Ill Elf' indeed, guffaw!  The main  Dredd I had only read the first part of so this conclusion was a bit wasted on me, but the Ewing and Willsher Cop story was very interesting indeed. May have to stick around for that one!  The DeMarco story had a Low Life vibe that I enjoyed.  Biggest surprise was American Reaper, which I have never read before, merely sneered at the art, which is in a style far removed from my tastes. As it happens I thought this was a really interesting read, and while I suffered some confusion of which character was Ageing Morrisey and which was Slaine, and cocked an eyebrow at the Millsposition dialogue, I think I'd like to read more.

Meanwhile Plagues of Necropolis was worse than I remember but, Si Spencer came across as such a positive person in his interview that I felt bad for only really enjoying some great art from SBD and MacNeil.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 23 December, 2014, 02:51:10 PM
Not a reaper fan at all. I just don't like the photo realism personally. The Dredd's were great Henry Flint is on his game at the moment. Christ, a Gordon Rennie Dredd plot and Flint art would be sight to see next year as they are in my opinion producing some of the best work I have seen in long years of reading at the moment. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Dandontdare on 23 December, 2014, 02:56:34 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 23 December, 2014, 02:46:58 PM
First Meg for a while, and a very solid comic.  Best thing was the cover, which was one great gag after another: 'Ill Elf' indeed, guffaw! 

I hadn't turned it over (who looks at the back cover of a magazine?) and didn't realise it was a double until I read this thread! I like the SJS judge with the looooong Naughty List
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 23 December, 2014, 03:06:40 PM
I think Fear with the Elf Ears on his helmet is the best.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: GermanAndy on 30 December, 2014, 03:37:29 PM
American Reaper? Really? Sigh.

Wagner and Flint on Dredd, this will be missed. I am not a big fan of DeMarco, thought the last one much too long, and this first part didn't grab me either. Dredd:The Cop is too early to say anything about it. Still, the prospect of having to skip half of the Meg for the next half year till AR finally and merciful ends is not  an enjoyable one.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Spaceghost on 30 December, 2014, 03:52:09 PM
I wouldn't mind American Reaper (starring the same four people who appear in all Clint Langley's strips) so much if it didn't take up so much bloody space in the Meg.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 30 December, 2014, 03:57:17 PM
The only thing that could sweeten the wound a little would be some more Reaper Files.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Ghost MacRoth on 30 December, 2014, 04:00:51 PM
Or less Reaper altogether, and more Dredd.  Or Armatige, or Anderson, or Cal Hab stuff, hell, I'd even welcome Red Razors back if it meant no more Reaper.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 30 December, 2014, 04:10:24 PM
It is pretty tedious stuff I agree....where does it fit into the Dredd world context. I know the answer by the way. I wish the Megazine would concentrate on the world of the 22nd century. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 30 December, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
I believe Tharg dedicates some space in the Meg to creator owned content. Lilly Mackenzie and Numbercruncher are two of the best examples. I just don't buy the Meg if Reaper is in it. Like has been said, takes a hell of a lot of pages for nothing to happen. I seem to remember in the first installment it took two whole pages for someone to get shot. From the trigger being pulled to the bullet finding its mark. Two pages. The gunman and victim were both standing in the same small room. Two pages.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Fungus on 30 December, 2014, 07:21:30 PM
Thought experiment: imagine someone other than Pat Mills pitching AR, would we see it at all?
I think writer clout has a lot to do with this?
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Ghost MacRoth on 30 December, 2014, 07:35:13 PM
Good point.  Much as I love a lot of Mills' work.......... recently, not so much.  It could be that I'm not a fan of Langley either, so ABC is murky, and doesn't scan well, leading me to get bored.  Reaper is murky and doesn't go anywhere, leaving me REALLY bored.  Even the last Slaine story seemed like it should have been 2-4 episodes tops....but we had loads of him making his way.......leading me to get bored with even that.  Dunno if I've lost patience, or he's gained loads.....but whichever...I'm losing faith in his stuff.  Hopefully the Joe Pineapples/Bisley tale will re-invigorate my interest in his work.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 30 December, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
Ach, the man wrote Nemesis, the Black Hole and Sky Chariots. I'll give him some leeway, but not a free pass.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Ghost MacRoth on 30 December, 2014, 08:07:16 PM
Absolutely, and that's exactly what I mean...you just mentioned some great work from him.  None of it was recent was it. ;)

Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 30 December, 2014, 08:14:36 PM
He's like the Paul McCartney of comics
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Ghost MacRoth on 30 December, 2014, 08:18:33 PM
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: TordelBack on 30 December, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
Quote from: Fungus on 30 December, 2014, 07:21:30 PM
I think writer clout has a lot to do with this?

You say clout, I say a back catalogue unequalled in British comics. Anyone can name half a dozen Mills strips they don't care for, but you'd be a lot longer naming all the ones that thrilled your socks off. He gets to write what he wants to write not because he's Pat Mills, but because the odds are good that the next script could be pure genius.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 30 December, 2014, 08:34:13 PM
Sh**t, you mean Mills next will be the equivalent of give my regards to Broadstreet! Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 30 December, 2014, 08:34:30 PM
My problem with a lot of his recent strips has nothing to do with the plots or whacky, undoubtedly Millsian concepts. It's the pacing that seems off.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Fungus on 30 December, 2014, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 30 December, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
Quote from: Fungus on 30 December, 2014, 07:21:30 PM
I think writer clout has a lot to do with this?

You say clout, I say a back catalogue unequalled in British comics. Anyone can name half a dozen Mills strips they don't care for, but you'd be a lot longer naming all the ones that thrilled your socks off. He gets to write what he wants to write not because he's Pat Mills, but because the odds are good that the next script could be pure genius.

Hm, let's say 'pedigree' then. And if you read 2000AD you can't not be a fan.

AR is onto a third series of extremely long episodes and feels like an experiment that is sadly failing. Of course, the movie that comes out of it will be a smash  :o
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 30 December, 2014, 09:03:46 PM
It has been pointed out that Mills had a massive creative patch in the mid to late 70's until the early 90's and it is the fervent hope of many on this thread that those heights of excellence will be regained. The gaps between his ultimate take on fresh original tales has widened hugely since then.  Those wonderful days, which we all loved and still yearn for will not be regained with the constant bombardment of boring interminable stories such as American Reaper or for that matter Savage and Flesh in the prog. However his recent revisiting of what, in my opinion, Slaine really meant, coupled with an invigorating, original artist ( Davis) does offer some hope. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Ghost MacRoth on 30 December, 2014, 09:15:11 PM
Yep, very well put.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Spaceghost on 30 December, 2014, 09:15:35 PM
Quote from: ZenArcade on 30 December, 2014, 09:03:46 PM
It has been pointed out that Mills had a massive creative patch in the mid to late 70's until the early 90's and it is the fervent hope of many on this thread that those heights of excellence will be regained. The gaps between his ultimate take on fresh original tales has widened hugely since then.  Those wonderful days, which we all loved and still yearn for will not be regained with the constant bombardment of boring interminable stories such as American Reaper or for that matter Savage and Flesh in the prog. However his recent revisiting of what, in my opinion, Slaine really meant, coupled with an invigorating, original artist ( Davis) does offer some hope. Z

Personally, I think Defoe is up there with the best Mills has ever written, and Requiem Vampire Knight, another recent and ongoing series, is the best thing he's written since Nemesis.

I've got a lot of love for Pat Mills. In fact, on balance, he's probably my favourite comic writer of all time, but I just really don't like American Reaper. It's the worst Pat Mills story I've ever read.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 30 December, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
Quite right Space ghost, Defoe is quite good. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 30 December, 2014, 09:18:39 PM
There's a Pat Mills thread waiting to be started. I won't comment further here because I have neither purchased nor read this meg.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 31 December, 2014, 03:19:18 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 30 December, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
Quote from: Fungus on 30 December, 2014, 07:21:30 PM
I think writer clout has a lot to do with this?
You say clout, I say a back catalogue unequalled in British comics. Anyone can name half a dozen Mills strips they don't care for, but you'd be a lot longer naming all the ones that thrilled your socks off.
If this was 1986, I'd agree. By 1996, not so much. Now: nope. For me, the rot set in when his strips shifted from crazy ideas and fast-paced action laced with black satire to being soapboxes for whatever he wanted to moan about. Sexy Ostriches is at least trying to do something a bit different from his norm (even if it's chock full of tiresome politics), but it's just so horribly boring. The art feels terribly static, and you get the feeling if it wasn't for the creative team, there's no way in hell this would have gotten past the first series — or at the very least, they'd have been told to tighten the bloody thing up. I can't wait for it to be over, and again if this had hit during my resub time, I'd seriously be reconsidering The Meg again.

Elsewhere, fortunately, was very solid, and I preferred this Meg to Prog 2015, despite Reaper. Dredd ended well, even if it was far too soon; DeMarco's always good, even if Yeowell's art has become rather spartan; and Ewing's 2089 Dredd provides a glimpse into an arrogant early Dredd we've rarely seen (and a city we've, as I recall, never seen) in 2000 AD. Meh at the floppy, although those stories at least weren't as bad as I recalled.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Skullmo on 01 January, 2015, 11:46:19 AM
Quote from: ZenArcade on 30 December, 2014, 09:03:46 PM
It has been pointed out that Mills had a massive creative patch in the mid to late 70's until the early 90's and it is the fervent hope of many on this thread that those heights of excellence will be regained. The gaps between his ultimate take on fresh original tales has widened hugely since then.  Those wonderful days, which we all loved and still yearn for will not be regained with the constant bombardment of boring interminable stories such as American Reaper or for that matter Savage and Flesh in the prog. However his recent revisiting of what, in my opinion, Slaine really meant, coupled with an invigorating, original artist ( Davis) does offer some hope. Z

It has been pointed out by people who do not like Mills' recent work you mean.

I think he is still doing great stuff, and I think Reaper is great. His stories are usually the first I read in the Prog.

'those wonderful days, which we all loved and still yearn for' - I don't yearn to see an artist repeat themself, I like that Pat is doing something new with Reaper.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: TordelBack on 01 January, 2015, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: Skullmo on 01 January, 2015, 11:46:19 AM
'those wonderful days, which we all loved and still yearn for' - I don't yearn to see an artist repeat themself, I like that Pat is doing something new with Reaper.

This is it for me too.  I can't really comment on Reaper, having only read one part (which I enjoyed and which left me interested), but I think Pat still produces some of the best comics in existence, and if he's offering up a creator-owned project for that slot in the Meg the Mighty One would be mad to turn it down (I also imagine it's a relatively cheap way to fill 18 pages with full colour art that, while not to my taste, surely has its adherents).

A Simple Killing was my favourite comic of the year, I just couldn't get enough of it - but any time in the past 20 years I would have been insisting that he had run Slaine into the ground and should never have continued it past Horned God: where would I be if I had got my way? 

Similarly after what looked like a downward spiral recent ABC Warriors flashback stuff has been great, Defoe is always brilliant and Savage's shift into strange continuity rambles and Colin Farrell homages have been fun.  I also loved the new Flesh stuff (although I appreciate that this is a minority opinion), and was very sorry to see it grind to a halt the way it did. 

On the other hand, I think Greysuit is just awful, Visible Man feels like some sort of cruel parody of Pat Mills strips and anything he's done for Dredd in the last 30 years has been effectively unreadable (for me).  But again I bet there are people who hold the exact opposite opinion.  Pat Mills strips get a reaction, because he's always trying to do something new: look at the 9(!) series of Savage: no two (or maybe three) runs have even been in the same genre, flipping from US 'regime change' satire to 70's cop show to WWII spy drama to East End gangster caper to high-concept SF warfare to whatever the hell mutant beast it is now.  Wait long enough and Pat will do something you really, really like.

Add that to his unfailing ability to inspire artists to produce their greatest work (even when the script might not be doing the lifting), and a back catalogue with over 200 entries on Barney, and Pat is 2000AD - the prog is never healthier than when Tharg and the Gaffer are working in harmony.  There should always be a slot in Prog and/or Meg for whatever Pat wants to write.


Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 01:01:05 PM
Skulmo, you rightly point out that it is people who aren't enamoured with Pat Mills recent work  why else would I have made the post. You like his recent material and fair play to you, many however don't. The intent of the post isnt to nostalgically hearken back to the mid 80's and expect Mills to simply rehash the wonderful material he penned back then ad infinitum (It could be argued that it is the very rehashing of stories like Flesh, Savage etc that has led to the evident discontent and dare I say disconnect we find amongst posters on here); no, instead I mearly want the excitement and creative imagination put to use on new storylines. As Space Ghost says Dafoe is a pretty good attempt at this; banality such as reaper and greysuit isn't. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Skullmo on 01 January, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 01:01:05 PM
Skulmo, you rightly point out that it is people who aren't enamoured with Pat Mills recent work  why else would I have made the post. You like his recent material and fair play to you, many however don't. The intent of the post isnt to nostalgically hearken back to the mid 80's and expect Mills to simply rehash the wonderful material he penned back then ad infinitum (It could be argued that it is the very rehashing of stories like Flesh, Savage etc that has led to the evident discontent and dare I say disconnect we find amongst posters on here); no, instead I mearly want the excitement and creative imagination put to use on new storylines. As Space Ghost says Dafoe is a pretty good attempt at this; banality such as reaper and greysuit isn't. Z

'many however don't' I have only seen 20 or so people at most complain about Mills' work, and it is usually the same comments levelled: 'I don't like the way he writes dialogue', 'I don't like Reaper','I don't like him changing continuity', 'It's not as good as when I was a kid'.

I like that people express their view on this, although maybe it's just that you, sadly, don't like Mills' style of writing anymore. Writers change and develop and you cannot expect someone to always write the same way.

I agree that can be a pain when such a big chunk of the Meg is taken up with his work :(
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 04:57:16 PM
Well we agree on the people putting their point across which is the essential thing in these discussions.   :) 20 people in terms of this forum is a substantial percentage of the number of posters at any given time. Yes, in respect of much of Pat Mills work over the past 2 - 3 decades, I don't feel drawn to it or engaged with it. It comes across as preachy and (as much as it pains me to say this) pedestrian as well. This is of course my personal opinion, but it is an opinion none the less. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 01 January, 2015, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 04:57:16 PM
This is of course my personal opinion, but it is an opinion none the less.

In your opinion.

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 05:36:55 PM
I have only my own to offer Jim. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 01 January, 2015, 05:38:22 PM
Quote from: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 05:36:55 PM
I have only my own to offer Jim. Z

There should possibly have been a smiley after my previous post. :-)

Cheers

Jim
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: TordelBack on 01 January, 2015, 05:42:58 PM
Absolutely, well-argued politely expressed opinions are what makes the forum go round!  And I think many (most?) have been there with Pat at one time or another, I know I have.  My point would be that Pat, along with Wagner and Grant, has earned the right to have a slot in 2000AD/The Megazine for new and ongoing work, and that he often delivers the goods, even (especially) if his work divides the audience.  However, there is an issue with one strip taking up such a large chunk of the Meg if it affects the overall experience of the comic when readers don't take to it.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 05:43:13 PM
 Jim there is no absolutley no need for a smiley, I respect Skulmo's opinion and the right of my fellow posters to take the micky out of me. I dont take myself too seriously (I hope). The forum is well argued but mannered. The very thing I admire about it and the posters on it. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Fungus on 01 January, 2015, 05:59:51 PM
Fight!    Fight!    FIGHT!!!!
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 01 January, 2015, 06:01:04 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 01 January, 2015, 05:42:58 PM
Absolutely, well-argued politely expressed opinions are what makes the forum go round!

[spoiler]Insert your preference of obvious and scatological rebuttal here.[/spoiler]

Cheers!

Jim
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 06:03:12 PM
 :lol: Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: TordelBack on 01 January, 2015, 06:08:39 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 01 January, 2015, 06:01:04 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 01 January, 2015, 05:42:58 PM
Absolutely, well-argued politely expressed opinions are what makes the forum go round!

[spoiler]Insert your preference of obvious and scatological rebuttal here.[/spoiler]


Funt you, man.  FUNT YOU.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 01 January, 2015, 07:10:11 PM
Although I haven't had the....pleasure?...of acquainting myself with Mr.Mills personally he's certainly on my short list of Droids I WOULDN'T want to get into an argument with. I think his closing speech at the end of Future Shock! sum's up how it would turn out for me.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Steve Green on 01 January, 2015, 07:51:08 PM
More of a 'things that went over my head' but I only found out that a Mills bomb is a grenade recently.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 01 January, 2015, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 01 January, 2015, 05:42:58 PMMy point would be that Pat, along with Wagner and Grant, has earned the right to have a slot in 2000AD/The Megazine for new and ongoing work, and that he often delivers the goods, even (especially) if his work divides the audience.
The second part of that is extremely important. No-one should get a pass—and certainly not an ongoing decades-long pass—because of their history. They have to still be delivering the goods. Mills, clearly, still is for many, so that's good enough for me, even if I'm these days rarely fond of his output and really wish he'd dial down the soapboxing.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: sheridan on 01 January, 2015, 11:26:34 PM
I wasn't aware that Pat had worked on Dredd in the last 30 years?
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 01 January, 2015, 11:28:43 PM
He did that ancient meso american analogue Judge story some years ago. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: TordelBack on 02 January, 2015, 12:37:39 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 01 January, 2015, 11:26:34 PM
I wasn't aware that Pat had worked on Dredd in the last 30 years?

Be grateful!  The ones that spring to mind are Blood of Satanus 2 and 3, Return of the Return of Rico, the '95 Movie Hammerstein continuity thing, Steamers (well named) and the bizarre Birthday Boy.  I thought it too many.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Skullmo on 02 January, 2015, 01:54:52 AM
Pat wrote 'whatever happened to Tweak' one of my favourite non Wagner Dredd world stories ever.

I also really enjoyed Blood of Satanus 2 and 3. One of the things I like was that Pat wrote Dredd differently to Wagner's Dredd. I found that very interesting.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Magnetica on 05 January, 2015, 11:19:57 PM
Been thinking this over for a couple of days now. On the thorny subject of whether a writer should ever get a "free pass", in general I would say no.


But when it is the person who wrote three of what I would consider to be the greatest things ever seen in 2000AD - the first series of  ABC Warriors, Slaine up to the end of The Horned God and the first few books of Nemesis (equalled only by the best of Dredd and Stront)...

When it is the person who created the concepts of all the new strips that appeared in Prog 1 and wrote (or co wrote) those opening episodes...

When it is a person without whom there would probably not be a 20000AD and by implication no Meg, no 2012 Dredd film and this board would not exist...


Then yes I think he probably should (or as close to it as the commercial reality will allow).

And no I don't think everything he has written is great - I stopped getting Crisis because I didn't like Third World War, only bought a few issues of Toxic because I didn't like Marshall Law and believe it or not didn't really like Charlie's War that much.

Oh and one for John Wagner as well. Although I can't imagine that will ever be necessary as everything he writes is great. (Except possibly the last series of Ace Trucking, but as I understand it he and Alan Grant had lost interest in it by then anyway :).)
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: ZenArcade on 06 January, 2015, 06:42:06 AM
I'm one of the people who even liked the latter end of Ace Trucking. Z
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: metcalfecarr on 15 January, 2015, 11:27:30 AM
I don't think anyone should have a free pass, even the greatest of writers.  You don't stick Carl Lewis in the 100 metres just because he won a load of gold medals in the 80s.

Pat Mills should have his work assessed on the same criteria as Rennie, Morrison, Wagner, Grant or newer writers like Wyatt and Worley.  If it's good enough, fair enough, if it's not then it's not good enough end of.

I love Savage, I find it funny, action packed and preachy.  It's basically Third World War without the burgers, but it's great fun.  I dont mind Greysuit, even if it is just typical Mills.  Dafoe I can take or leave but it's got something to it.

However AR is scandalous.  It's boring, uneventful, cliched to hell and badly written.  It's construction on all levels, plot dialogue, art is just not good enough and it is creator reputation that's got this through.  It's not just AR, I hate Flesh as well which is the worst drawn series in 20 years to appear in the weekly. Unless you want to spend half an hour working out what has been drawn in a panel, then it's perfect for you. I also detest ABC Warriors and Slaine, but agree Slaine picked up with the Brutania Chronicles back to what I liked about it originally.

But these are my opinions, and its why I'm not buying the Meg at the minute, which is a shame because I usually love it.  Just don't get me started on Alec Worley's stuff though or I'll be here all day.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 09:05:40 PM
Just starting to buy the Meg regularly, having only ever bought it intermittently before, so thought I'd go back a month and start with this one.

I have to say that I really enjoyed the "Plagues of Necropolis" floppy, particularly the artwork on the second strip "...Creeping Things". Did Pete Venters go on to do much more work for 2000AD? I don't recognise his name.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: I, Cosh on 10 February, 2015, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Tim Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 09:05:40 PMDid Pete Venters go on to do much more work for 2000AD? I don't recognise his name.
Doesn't look like it: http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=PETEV
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 10 February, 2015, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Tim Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 09:05:40 PMDid Pete Venters go on to do much more work for 2000AD? I don't recognise his name.
Doesn't look like it: http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=PETEV

That's a real shame. I love the first page of "...Creeping Things" in particular. He really manages to convey the darkness of Necropolis through the piles of bodies standing out against the backdrop of tower blocks and the darkness of the night sky.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: sheridan on 10 February, 2015, 11:13:20 PM
Quote from: Tim Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 10 February, 2015, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Tim Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 09:05:40 PMDid Pete Venters go on to do much more work for 2000AD? I don't recognise his name.
Doesn't look like it: http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=PETEV (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=PETEV)
That's a real shame. I love the first page of "...Creeping Things" in particular. He really manages to convey the darkness of Necropolis through the piles of bodies standing out against the backdrop of tower blocks and the darkness of the night sky.
If he'd stayed in the UK, maybe he'd have done more 2000AD and Meg work. As it was, he shot to fame as a Magic: the Gathering card artist, moved to Seattle and married a rather famous Goth there (not sure if she was famous before they got together).  They have largely separate careers, but did work on at least one book together.
His own blog:
http://www.peteventers.com/blog/
M:tG card database:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Pete%20Venters%22]
Magic cards by Pete Venters fan website:
http://www.peteventersproject.com/

Jillian Venters: https://www.facebook.com/jillian.venters
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 11:21:57 PM
Thanks for sharing that Sheridan. I'm glad to see he went on to have a successful career as, like I said, I found his instalment of "Plagues of Necropolis" to be the best looking one of the bunch.
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: sheridan on 11 February, 2015, 12:27:32 AM
Quote from: Tim Tailz on 10 February, 2015, 11:21:57 PM
Thanks for sharing that Sheridan. I'm glad to see he went on to have a successful career as, like I said, I found his instalment of "Plagues of Necropolis" to be the best looking one of the bunch.
(and when I say Jillian Venters is a famous Goth I mean famous in the Goth scene which means most people outside it have never heard of her - she's the Lady of the Manners and author of Gothic Charm School (which I think had illustrations by Pete, but no word of them in the amazon entry):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0061669164/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0061669164&linkCode=as2&tag=thewildewood-21&linkId=YOEQ4T42HEUSIOM5
Title: Re: Meg 355 - Ho Ho Drokkin' Ho, Creeps!
Post by: James Stacey on 12 February, 2015, 09:25:17 AM
Wow there's a name from the past. Pete was often knocking around the local rpg / nerd game shop in Cardiff in the late 90s. I knew him as a magic card illustrator (there was a running joke locally that a non signed Venters card was worth more than a signed one) didn't realise he drew for Tharg. Good to see he's done good.