Well for some reason that cover doesn't say Stewart K Moore to me, don't know why just feels different to they're other work. Either way very nice.
Inside well thank Tharg we have Ken Niemand to pick up Dredd after the end of the last brilliant, super popular, story. This one feels so Niemand, different, more postive tone, introduction of a new character I strongly suspect will be back. Playful use of the Joe Dredd trope and over all a great fun done in one with the promise of more to come. Just goes to show how Dredd can host so many types of story so perfectly. All with lovely Nicolo Assirelli art. Nice.
Indigo Prime continues to move things along very nicely, great stuff. We have our squad together and feels like the mission is about to start. And damn I'd won't have eaten that lolly pop!
Full Tilt Boogie just such fun. The shift in focus and tone is delightful and this one looks great and is aces basically.
As not so for Deadworld - used to love this strip but this one has completely lost me and I can't see a recovery before a re-read by this point.
Thistlebone - I mean if someone invites you to that after shoot party you ain't going to go right. Oh boy this one just cranks it up yet again. Superb.
Also in the Nervecentre we get another nail in the Regened coffin. No news of more BUT we now know that issue 2375 will be an extra length soft relaunch issue. I slot that would surely have been the first Regened of the year AND the promise of 3 more of these to come. Maybe times and page counts have to be booked at the printers in advance. Who know but I don't think we're getting Regened this year are we.
Cover by Stewart K. Moore:
(https://twitter.com/2000AD/status/1765678826984526331/photo/1)
Cover and Logo:
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/QDGZE6IR8oDtylQuGpVWpABQrqo=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/51/e8/d8f303274ff5e6607ad39cb2dc33b09c7e0a.jpg)
It would seem... unlikely, unless Tharg's giving us bumper 2000 ADs four times per year and Regened. But it seems unlikely Regened would drop to the standard page count. The delay/cancellation of the fifth trade doesn't suggest good things either. I dunno. Comics are tricky, and these days publishing numbers are mostly opaque (bar rare cases like The Beano).
I still like the concept behind Regened, but I haven't enjoyed the execution for some time. More or a concern: my 9yo hasn't been fussed either, despite devouring The Phoenix weekly and reading mountains of books and comics. But everyone here must surely be painfully aware that comics need new readers to survive. So perhaps these bumper Progs can help with that? I've no idea what's planned, but I hope they'll whack in some recognisable strips. And also give them value as one-offs, by having some one-and-dones alongside the ongoings.
Clearly, Rebellion does have some handle on the children's market, given the increase in Monster Fun's frequency. And it doesn't strike me as a company that wouldn't beat a dead horse. Four Regened collections is a solid run, and we've had a bunch of spin-off too.
It's all speculation, I suppose, but if Regened does stop, I'd hope the best strips continue to have a life in the regular Prog. Although obviously what people consider the best is going to vary from reader to reader. (I'd happily read more Full Tilt Boogie, Pandora Perfect, Intestinauts, Department K and Mayflies. And some of those have made it across already anyway, albeit in a few cases in very limited fashion.)
Its too much lowborn high that killed it for me. if it was normal length and we had another story or two i would have been fine but nearly half the comic being lowborn....no just no
shame really as regened did have a lot of nice fun stuff that came from it all mostly mentioned above by my favourite indigo prime that isn't the comic strip....which was good this week heck the only thing i am struggling with is deadworld as i think i may have lost the plot on that series about two storylines ago.
For me regen should exists in one form or another, why do they not try the same formula that exists for the Battle Action series. Release it as serialized form with maybe one or two stories carrying over and the rest one shots
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 March, 2024, 10:33:41 AMAlso in the Nervecentre we get another nail in the Regened coffin. No news of more BUT we now know that issue 2375 will be an extra length soft relaunch issue. I slot that would surely have been the first Regened of the year AND the promise of 3 more of these to come. Maybe times and page counts have to be booked at the printers in advance. Who know but I don't think we're getting Regened this year are we.
I just in a preview the following statement which is quite interesting:
The Fall of Deadworld Retribution comes to its scrotnig finale next week, paving the way for some fantastic new stories to commence in the bumper Prog 2375, the first of four 48-pagers scheduled for 2024. Now that's something to really look forward to!
Regened is quite an odd name. It's not meaningful to new readers, as it references something that happened in the comic in 1985, and, erm, didn't work very well.
It lasted 18 issues. More than Revolver. Less than Judge Dredd: Lawman of the Future. Ah well, R.I.P., brave experiment...
(https://i.imgur.com/bKOt3md.png)
(Color me surprised if Regened surfaces as a 4-week prog takeover this summer, or something.)
If regened has indeed bitten the dust, I for one will not be missing it.
I won't miss it either, but it will still be a great shame that the experiment failed, as it's imperative that Rebellion continues to sell comics to a new generation of British comics are to have a long-term future.
Agree that "Regened" was a dubious choice of title.
It's really interesting looking at the above strips grid, because it feels like a comic that – given the huge gap between issues – was struggling to find its identity. Initially, it was "kid-friendly takes on classic 2000 AD characters, with a few new things". End of the first half brought in a bunch ion new stuff. Issues with Pandora and Dept K. One with Mayflies and Splorers. But then it quickly became 'Lowborn High also featuring Cadet Dredd, and maybe some other stuff if we can squeeze it in'.
For a range of reasons, I do hope it's not dead. But I also personally hope if there's more that it's closer in nature to the first half than the second half of what we've had to date. (Ofc, that might be entirely contrary to sales. Maybe Lowborn High was a hit with the kids. I can only go by my own prefs and those of my youngling.)
That is why I think it will work better if the schedule for it is done in a more flowing manner - this should never have been part of the normal prog run. Currently it broke-up the prog's run and we had these awkward breaks.
Cue Jim Campbell explaining why it had to be part of the normal prog run for economic reasons...
Quote from: Funt Amenable to Change on 11 March, 2024, 12:17:55 AMRegened is quite an odd name. It's not meaningful to new readers, as it references something that happened in the comic in 1985, and, erm, didn't work very well.
Oh, what's that referring to?
Quote from: Le Fink on 11 March, 2024, 02:00:04 PMQuote from: Funt Amenable to Change on 11 March, 2024, 12:17:55 AMRegened is quite an odd name. It's not meaningful to new readers, as it references something that happened in the comic in 1985, and, erm, didn't work very well.
Oh, what's that referring to?
The hinge-story (progs 401-406) that took Rogue from Nu Earth to Horst. G, B & H (wait - GBH?) were
regened but then started to sort of flake away (like people in Marty McFly's photograph in BttF) because of a mad space-math disease that could only be cured by a magic egg from D&D World.
Quote from: Funt Amenable to Change on 11 March, 2024, 02:56:12 PMQuote from: Le Fink on 11 March, 2024, 02:00:04 PMQuote from: Funt Amenable to Change on 11 March, 2024, 12:17:55 AMRegened is quite an odd name. It's not meaningful to new readers, as it references something that happened in the comic in 1985, and, erm, didn't work very well.
Oh, what's that referring to?
The hinge-story (progs 401-406) that took Rogue from Nu Earth to Horst. G, B & H (wait - GBH?) were regened but then started to sort of flake away (like people in Marty McFly's photograph in BttF) because of a mad space-math disease that could only be cured by a magic egg from D&D World.
Oh THAT.
:D
I suppose we should really get at least one review into each page of this review thread, so here's mine. An odd Prog this week after the past couple of months. Despite only one strip changing, it feels like a bit of a comedown. That's not to say this was a bad Prog – it really wasn't – but it obvious feels very different.
I thought the Stuart Moore wraparound cover was excellent, and the (unrelated) Dredd was a useful palette cleanser. The story was fun. A bit slight. But I'm OK with that this week. I'm not sure I could have coped had this one turned out differently at the end.
Indigo Prime continues to play with some interesting concepts within its own continuity. I hope Kek-W can keep it coherent. I'm not sure we need more toys from the toy box. Wiping out the Tyranny army as a pity. Some nice body horror this episode too.
Filt Tilt Boogie continues to be fun, although I clearly need a re-read to decipher what was going on in p4–5. Not sure whether the gran was just lucky or if she has a kind of sixth sense. Lying cats seeming cousin is fun. (I get the need to release collections quickly, but how nice would it have been to have had both FTB series in a single HC? Ah well.)
Deadworld slaps back and forth between pantomime villains and genuine horror, sometimes within the same few pages. "We are losing control of the Judge Child", says Phobia. And the plot also. This one just feels like a mess now. I've no idea what's going no. Maybe I'm getting old.
Thistlebone is much tighter, and ends suitably ominously.
Full Tilt Boogie > Indigo Prime > Dredd > Thistlebone > Deadworld. Nothing bad. Four good. One that I wish was more good – for me, at least.
If Regened is done, I shall miss it as it once was. I think the last few issues were....not as strong as earlier ones. I guess that's the last we'll ever see of Lowborn High as well. I will be honest and say I don't miss that. But I will miss a lot of the other stuff. Obviously the best of it is in the main Prog now, but I felt there was life in Finder and Keeper, and Renk to name but two. The latter I would very much like to see in the Prog.
It begs the question....how DO you attract new younger readers? Us old farts don't be around forever.
Quote from: scrotnig on 11 March, 2024, 05:17:59 PMIt begs the question....how DO you attract new younger readers? Us old farts don't be around forever.
One angle would be that you don't necessarily need to attract very young readers - they'll already be into comic-formats from other media (graphic novels) and then they just need to angle in to 2000 AD.
I think the quality of 2000 AD is the main selling point, but it's a teenage to adult age rating at the moment. Regened worked best when it was established talent with 2000 AD's best aspects of chaos and non-conformity. Fundamentally, I think there's a problem with presenting "all ages" as being squeaky clean. Cadet Dredd was a bit Judge Pal - which is supposed to be a disturbing critique of a "dob-in-your-neighbor" totalitarian state, but in Regened we were supposed to whoop. Chopper's parents got twisted around from out-of-touch wasters into loveable eccentrics. Instead of him being a sullen teenager looking for some meaning in his life, he became a happy-go-lucky cut-out from Whizzer 'n' Chips.
Ultimately, it felt like Regened (in some cases) meant Neutered.
As others have said the problem with Regened wasn't the idea that was aces. It was the excecution in the second half of its run. It seemed to stop using the best talent available to pull new readers in and felt more and more like a way to give folks a tryout* and so shot itself in the foot.
If you think about the quality of some of the earlier strips, Pandora Perfect, Department K, Mayflies, Full Tilt Boogie to name but a few. There was some good Future Shocks and shorter stuff like Intestinauts and that game by Henry Flint in the FCBD issue. It oozed quality. There were misteps sure but those were always balanced by great stuff.
As it went on the quality dropped and never recovered. Such a shame. Also things weren't helped by the fact that they never quite settled on how to do Cadet Dredd. At times it was great, at times it just didn't work. It never selected in how to use an authoritarian lead to best effect and for me it worked best when he was contrasted with Rico... but maybe Dredd needed to be the villain of that strip? Who knows I'm sure folks did the work to research how best to do it.
Still let's see what happens next and hopefully there are ways to turn this kids line into something more bridging?
*Probably not true or fair but defo my instinctive impression.
Maybe I am just getting old, but I have no idea what's going on in any of the strips other than Dredd.
I have never, ever, been able to follow Indigo Prime.
Full Tilt Boogie feels like it has 10 years of back story that I've missed.
Deadworld seems to be going in circles.
Thistlebone... nothing has happened in it, other than some folks have made a film and go pissed. There has been no horror (other than 70s fashion). Am I right in thinking it's a flashback?
As a horror nerd, the incorrect Scanners reference in Indigo Prime annoyed me. :geek:
Oh lord, please ignore me. I somehow managed to skip 2 pages!
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 March, 2024, 08:26:36 PM...It was the excecution in the second half of its run...
This has probably been said but I think the scheduling hurt it too. 4 issues a year makes long form stories harder to follow/care about so you're left for the most part with one-offs, which are also possible harder to write in order to give you that emotional connection and payoff. A monthly comic might have worked with long form stories like following a bunch of cadets through their training. I'd actually be happy to read that. Current Dredd and other stars could cameo. It's young protagonists, tick, sci-fi, tick, and drama, tick, but drawn out so you see them grow, succeed and fail over time.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 March, 2024, 05:50:54 PMQuote from: scrotnig on 11 March, 2024, 05:17:59 PMIt begs the question....how DO you attract new younger readers? Us old farts don't be around forever.
One angle would be that you don't necessarily need to attract very young readers - they'll already be into comic-formats from other media (graphic novels) and then they just need to angle in to 2000 AD.
I think the quality of 2000 AD is the main selling point, but it's a teenage to adult age rating at the moment. Regened worked best when it was established talent with 2000 AD's best aspects of chaos and non-conformity. Fundamentally, I think there's a problem with presenting "all ages" as being squeaky clean. Cadet Dredd was a bit Judge Pal - which is supposed to be a disturbing critique of a "dob-in-your-neighbor" totalitarian state, but in Regened we were supposed to whoop. Chopper's parents got twisted around from out-of-touch wasters into loveable eccentrics. Instead of him being a sullen teenager looking for some meaning in his life, he became a happy-go-lucky cut-out from Whizzer 'n' Chips.
Ultimately, it felt like Regened (in some cases) meant Neutered.
While I have no idea what modern-day kids like, I used to really enjoy the merciless cynicism of Dredd when I was a kid, even if I didn't know what 'cynicism' meant. Of course I still liked the monsters and the explosions too, but
The Exploding Man proved you could have both in a story that still had poignancy and depth.
BAD Company was absolutely rivetting to me, despite the relentless brutality and the harrowing evolution of innocent recruits to ruthless killers.
But who knows - maybe modern-day children have a very different mindset. We clearly had very different tastes from 50s
Eagle kids, after all.
My run of Saturday Progs has come to and end and this dropped yesterday. Nevertheless I really enjoyed this Prog.
Really great, moody cover. A touch of Akira on the red bike, or is that just me?
Dredd was indeed very slight but perfectly enjoyable, whether it leads to a recurring character or not. Was always going to be a bit of a 'death slot' following a depressing mega epic so this story was well placed to handle that.
Indigo Prime Good episode. I'm following this just fine - IP's never been one of my favourite strips but one thing I've always enjoyed about it is that it feels ever so slightly incomprehensible in the way events and things are referenced without explanation and that adds to the uniqueness of it. This was weird, violent and looks beautiful, digging it.
Agree about the Scanners reference though! Needled me too and not needed.
Filt Tilt Boogie Enjoyed this a lot more than last week. I also am not sure on the scene with the coin (blind luck or something else?) but appreciated the slightly comedic aspect of the assassin missing and getting beaten up. I've enjoyed this so far - and it feels like this is a perfect all ages strip, especially with its bright, manga-influenced art which is likely to appeal to more younger readers than put off older ones based on what I know. My only complaint is how decompressed the storytelling has been so far.
Deadworld feels a lot tighter since we shifted back to Jess & co and away from the Sovs and Skeletor Sidney. This is grotesque and exciting stuff, especially as I'm more invested in these characters and we don't know who the protagonist is (Jess? Fairfax? Whatever Byke is?) so anyone or indeed everyone could die here - although I suspect Fairfax won't, from what Jess said.
Thistlebone Cool as ever, although I was hoping for more happening after the tree page last week. Atmosphere building and building to something dreadful.
As to the Regened debate... NGL, I'm happy it appears to be done but I don't want the Prog to bleed readers without bringing in more until it fades away. As when it launched I just have to trust Rebellion who should know more about marketing strategy than anything anecdotal I might have. The format - having the issues so spread out - definitely had me thinking it was more of a try out for strips with a view to moving them into the Prog and then getting a collected edition out of them meaning the best stuff consistently vanished from its pages to be replaced with stuff that often felt filler-y, especially in the latter issues, and fwiw I found the content of a lot of the stuff weirdly pitched: seemingly unsuitable for younger readers in many ways whilst being unengaging for an older reader. I was very surprised that more established or veteran creators in the kids comic field weren't used.
At the end of the day I hope it did some good!
Quotemaybe modern-day children have a very different mindset
The main thing I see in mini-IP and her friends regarding stories they (mostly girls, 9-10) read are: younger-aged protagonists; an emphasis on justice in the sense of fairness (something Cadet Dredd really struggled with); a shit-ton of horror, but often laced with comedy; diversity replacing meanness (Blyton now considered archaic; Dahl confuses due to its meanness; and I suspect Harry Potter could head the same way, given its rampant stereotypes, although many of those are lost on kids – and probably adults too).
Which might sound... dull? But the books I read with her are often whip-smart. They tackle a lot of themes to help the protagonists to their goals. Humour exists because someone has set up a joke, rather than just screaming LOOK AT THE UGLY FAT PERSON. And they're often really engaging in terms of language and pace.
Regarding
comics vs books, I think it's much harder to say what works. There's clearly some success in the indie space. Manga is hugely popular with teens. Younger kids devour a smallish selection of mostly cartoon-oriented titles. The Phoenix shows there's a market, but it may well be a very small one. And even The Beano is bouncing around a ~30k circulation (IIRC) these days.
For me, the best of Regened were series that made no assumptions. Those tying themselves heavily into continuity – especially previous 2000 AD stuff, but also within Regened itself (Lowborn High, say) – suffered. And Cadet Dredd didn't really work because as a basic concept it's fundamentally flawed from the outset.
In the 1970s, the 'hardman' was the centrepiece of media and so translated well to comics. As we grew up, so did the Dredd strip, bringing in nuance. Readers became engaged with its grey area morality. But that path doesn't exist in the 2020s. The Cadet incarnation worked best when it ditched all that and became about the brothers – one reckless and one being a rigid killjoy. Yet even then, it too often clearly wanted to tie itself into actual Dredd continuity (with several foreshadowing nods), rather than just being its own thing, and it made you root for the character who wasn't the lead, because he was actually fun.
Got an 80% thumbs-up Prog this week, so pretty much no complaints.
The Regened debate continues to be a wild ride, with a lot of you former Pro-Geners admitting you won't miss it.
The whole affair will be poorly regarded retrospectively I suspect - by the majority of us who will still be alive and well, and buying 2000AD, in the next decade and indeed the couple after that.
The only actual threats I see on the Prog's short to medium-term horizon are the cut-backs at the competent Script Droid production facility.
Quote from: Richard on 11 March, 2024, 12:26:50 PMCue Jim Campbell explaining why it had to be part of the normal prog run for economic reasons...
Ahem.The reason why Regened ended up in the prog was nothing to do with economics. Keith Richardson (I think) explicitly said in a thrill-cast that the first Regened was supposed to be a special, but the distributor nixed it on the grounds that they thought Rebellion already had enough specials coming up that year. That meant that they would have had to drop another special to make room for Regened.
I'm assuming (as always, no inside info) that a judgement was made that it would be easier to fold the Regened content into the regular prog than to do the same with any of the other specials on the slate that year.
And then we had the pandemic, which made the idea of launching a new title incredibly risky when we were only ever one spike in the R number and another lockdown away from all the retail outlets being ordered to close again. At that point, given that the numbers for having the content in the prog were, by all accounts, pretty encouraging, it certainly
did make economic sense to continue with a strategy that Rebellion certainly didn't
intend at the outset.
We're in a different place now, so maybe it makes sense to take a step back and review the strategy given the different circumstances. Again, I don't know. I thought, and still think, the idea is a sound one, so I hope that it continues to exist in some form.
And newsstand is even riskier today, arguably. Locally, we've seen McColl's be replaced by a Morrisons Local, which has reduced the amount of magazines/comics carried to (at a rough estimate) 20%. A nearby gigantic Tesco has ripped out its book section entirely and the magazines have been drastically reduced – probably to about 40% of the original space, and there's definitely also a reduction in what's carried. And rumblings continue about WHSmith and whether that too might start cutting things back in future. (I hope not – it's now last-place standing in a lot of towns.)
Kind of surprised there wasn't official confirmation in the Nerve Centre that Regened has come to an end (if indeed it has), though I guess that wouldn't really fit with the upbeat vibe. Perhaps a jaunty little sign-off, Starlord-style, from Joko-Jargo? "Great news! My mission on Earth is complete..."
Anyway, back in the Niemand-verse, a lovely Dredd - though whoever it was complained here a while ago about Call-Me-Ken's occasionally clumsy phrasing will presumably have had an involuntary splutter at the duplication in "Obsolete model servo-droids, Kinderman Street. Looks like they've been street-dumped". I want to like this iteration of Indigo Prime and I actually got three pages in this week before I started to drift, so things are improving. Full Tilt Boogie continues to be lovely and to be honest, I could easily forego the overarching plot for more episodes of Cat and Gran. Spin-off, Tharg? Perhaps as a weekly three-panel short..? Less luck with Deadworld, I'm afraid, its early mystique having all but vanished. And yeah, surely every other member of the Dule Tree cast and crew will be down the local giving it "Am I bollocks going" while Terrence Steele stands in the middle of the wood being mauled by a giant badger?
Full wrap-around cover:
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/5-spread-1024x669.png)
Dahl is still incredibly popular.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 13 March, 2024, 07:15:17 AMBut who knows - maybe modern-day children have a very different mindset. We clearly had very different tastes from 50s Eagle kids, after all.
I'm not quite ready to buy into the idea that the generational shift has been so severe. It's not as if we didn't have rather staid, mainstream entertainment on offer as kids. Not to dis Blue Peter, but for me it was just too well behaved. I loved Tiswas and despised Swap Shop. 2000 AD had a bit of an attitude (like the later Amiga Power compared to other computer game magazines) - driven, of course, by an attitude-fueled team of creatives.
For me, Regened just felt more and more bland the longer it went on. I don't understand well the notion that kids these days really want bland things. (Not what you said - I realize - but it's how I'm interpreting some of the arguments.)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 March, 2024, 06:12:27 PMFor me, Regened just felt more and more bland the longer it went on. ..........
I agree with the bland statement. I also did not like the fact that we now get a 20-page story in every edition (and if you do not like it then 50% of the prog was a lost cause). I understand the idea was to get a collection done as quickly as possible (maybe it was already decided by then that the regen might be done and dusted). I liked it more when we had more stories thus a bigger change of something to your liking. I still believe scheduling is the bigger problem waiting for months between editions was a problem.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 March, 2024, 06:12:27 PMI'm not quite ready to buy into the idea that the generational shift has been so severe. It's not as if we didn't have rather staid, mainstream entertainment on offer as kids.
These two statements don't connect, I'm afraid. We're talking about
two generations, with the rise of the internet dumped into the middle of that. Add into that equation the fact that parents are (generally)
much more supervisory of their kids' entertainment consumption and the transformation of schools into fascists work camps designed to stamp out cookie-cutter worker units* and we end up with an environment where simply recreating a facsimile of what worked in 1977 is a complete non-starter.
Please note that I'm
not saying that Regened hit the magic spot between what worked in 1977 and what should/could work now, only that there is a very big gap between those two points and attempting to hit it is a task I'm glad
I didn't have to grapple with.
(Yes, IP, The Phoenix... which is an astonishing outlier that has had an extraordinary amount of money pumped into it over a couple of decades and which no one can confidently say to this day actually
makes money.)
*May be hyperbole, but my conversations with teachers suggest perhaps not as much as we might hope.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 March, 2024, 01:50:43 PMDahl is still incredibly popular.
The books sell, yes. But I suspect there's a lot of that from certain age groups and/or it's fuelled by nostalgia. I picked up a set of books for mini-IP on a whim and regretted doing so once we read them. They needed some fairly heavy editing. Fortunately, she's now decided to get rid of the last of them, so they're off to a charity shop. There are far, far better books for children to read these days.
And, yes, I've no idea if The Phoenix is making cash. But I do hope so. And given that it's now heading towards the mid 600s (having been around for well over a decade), that's a... lot of time to be throwing cash at something if it's not profitable.
(One thing with The Phoenix that is interesting: the shift to other aspects of fandom. There's the annual Phoenix Fest in Oxford. And the mag has started experimenting with live drawalongs. I don't recall how many they said showed up last time, but I think it was north of four figures.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 13 March, 2024, 08:01:57 PMthat's a... lot of time to be throwing cash at something if it's not profitable.
David Fickling has his fingers in a lot of pies, and a quick google tells me that his non-comic enterprises include publishing stuff by Philip Pullman, amongst others.
I get royalties from Classical Comics, a publisher I haven't worked for in over a decade, so I know at what point their books moved into profit (and which of them haven't yet done so). Some publishers have enough money behind them to pay a
very long game.
I hope the Phoenix makes money, but I suspect there's a very long tail of debt behind it, which the over-arching business structure is happy to swallow. That might be for tax reasons, it might be for entirely altruistic reasons... we can't know. I'm happy it exists, and I hope it continues to do so.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 March, 2024, 01:50:43 PMDahl is still incredibly popular.
Delicious with some grilled aubergine
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 13 March, 2024, 07:40:38 PMQuote from: Funt Solo on 13 March, 2024, 06:12:27 PMI'm not quite ready to buy into the idea that the generational shift has been so severe. It's not as if we didn't have rather staid, mainstream entertainment on offer as kids.
These two statements don't connect, I'm afraid. We're talking about two generations, with the rise of the internet dumped into the middle of that. Add into that equation the fact that parents are (generally) much more supervisory of their kids' entertainment consumption and the transformation of schools into fascists work camps designed to stamp out cookie-cutter worker units* and we end up with an environment where simply recreating a facsimile of what worked in 1977 is a complete non-starter.
I'm finding myself in agreement with both points, actually. I agree with you that "a facsimile of what worked in 1977" (not something I suggested) wouldn't be a great aim. My key point was that whatever the generational change, 2000 AD was always high quality but also counter-cultural (often labeled as "punk"). I don't see why we can't keep those (for me, core) aspects in trying to appeal to a younger audience.
Separate point, and not related to what you said, Jim, but I don't like the argument that helicopter parents should win, either. Fuck off, helicopter parents! It's none of your sodding business. (My dad wasn't happy with my reading 2000 AD as a kid - because he was doing a great impression of Modern Parents from Viz. I love him lots, but he was talking out of his arse about my reading choices. I can choose things to read, and have been able to from a young age, without adult supervision.)
My experience is kids have less freedom than I had growing up in the 1980s, and I had less freedom than my parents have. But specifically with media, the landscape has changed beyond all recognition. At my kid's age, I think I was about to get my first music system – a Saisho tape deck. I had a handful of tapes. We definitely had a games system back then (I think a VIC-20, with a C64 arriving shortly afterwards), but that wasn't a given. Our local library was... lacking, let's say. But comics were cheap and plentiful. So I naturally gravitated towards them, and although the counter-culture elements may have grated some parents (be that IPC/Fleetway's anarchic bent or Action and 2000 AD's violence), nothing in there was really beyond the pale. So they were cheap, thrilling/funny entertainment.
Today, my 9yo has access to 90+ million tracks on her iPod touch. She has a Switch and access to an iPad for games that regularly refresh in Apple Arcade. Libraries... that one's luck, but our local one is excellent for children's prose books. But comics... there's so little around, so what exists has to cast the net far more widely and yet simultaneously target people with the relevant amount of spending money.
The two surviving weeklies, The Beano and The Phoenix, cost, respectively, £2.99 and £3.49. When I was around the same age as my daughter, The Beano cost an average of 14p. If inflation alone was responsible for price rises, The Beano would be closer to 60p today, opening it up to a much wider audience. But various factors and shifts in production costs have dramatically shifted things, and so we end up with the current incarnation of the comic, which is clearly a lot less rough and ready than it was, in every sense. Note that as a parent I'm all for the comic's more inclusive bent. Reading back just 10–15 years ago, a lot of The Beano read like it was absolutely fine with bullying. And it actually gives a shit about girls now, which is good. Still, I find it a great shame that this medium is no longer close to being mass-media in any meaningful sense.
So back to Regened: what should or could it have been? Any comic is a risk. Regened clearly aimed to sit between The Phoenix and OG 2000 AD, providing a kind of 'upgrade' path that's now missing with 2000 AD itself being aimed at a much older readership than it was during the 1970s and arguably quite deep into the 1980s. Perhaps it was too safe. For me, it too often wasn't subversive enough, which is a different thing. (The Phoenix is quite clean cut in many ways, but often has its edge in subversion, when it has one.) But if Regened is gone, I imagine there are multiple factors, many of which we won't know about, and at least some of which were unavoidable (not least the weird schedule and the publication not being able to exist as a standalone).
At least Monster Fun continues to be on the shelves, mean that Rebellion has got one extra regular children's comic on to the newsstands. That's no mean feat in the current climate, although I do find it odd the comic is always faced in WHSmith with 2000 AD, when it'd make more sense sitting next to The Beano (and, in those few branches that stock it, The Phoenix). I've no idea if that's down to WHSmith or Rebellion, mind. (There are strategic reasons for both approaches.)
Any discussion of What The Kids Want from their comics these days just puts me in mind of Grant Morrison's solar cycles hypothesis. So now I'm imagining that in 5-10 years time Tooth will be putting out Regened progs that are even more savage, bloodthirsty and insensitive than the regular series, for an audience that finds Tharg's typical output too tame for their tastes.
Quote from: broodblik on 13 March, 2024, 06:44:37 PMI also did not like the fact that we now get a 20-page story in every edition (and if you do not like it then 50% of the prog was a lost cause). I understand the idea was to get a collection done as quickly as possible (maybe it was already decided by then that the regen might be done and dusted). I liked it more when we had more stories thus a bigger change of something to your liking. I still believe scheduling is the bigger problem waiting for months between editions was a problem.
I thought the idea of one longer strip per issue was a great one, considering there were only four issues a year. A good four-parter to keep readers coming back every 3 months, as well as a couple of shorter done-in-one tales to back it up.
Unfortunately Lowborn High wasn't the strip to make that format work, which is a shame.
Quote from: norton canes on 13 March, 2024, 12:06:51 PMKind of surprised there wasn't official confirmation in the Nerve Centre that Regened has come to an end (if indeed it has)
Having read all of this thread, are we saying it hasn't actually finished? :eh:
Quote from: Jacqusie on 14 March, 2024, 06:03:00 PMQuote from: norton canes on 13 March, 2024, 12:06:51 PMKind of surprised there wasn't official confirmation in the Nerve Centre that Regened has come to an end (if indeed it has)
Having read all of this thread, are we saying it hasn't actually finished? :eh:
We're jumping to conclusions based on some circumstantial evidence.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 14 March, 2024, 09:18:41 AMAt least Monster Fun continues to be on the shelves
My step-ma buys Monster Fun and The Phoenix for the grandkids - those lucky dawgs. She reports that they both get read but that Phoenix is the one they obsess over. That's a 8-12 age range, mind.
Perhaps Monster Fun's success was a reason behind Regened's potential fall. Not that it's a zero sum game, but for all I know there's a limit to the talent pool of writers and artists available for gigs like that.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 March, 2024, 06:04:05 PMQuote from: Jacqusie on 14 March, 2024, 06:03:00 PMQuote from: norton canes on 13 March, 2024, 12:06:51 PMKind of surprised there wasn't official confirmation in the Nerve Centre that Regened has come to an end (if indeed it has)
Having read all of this thread, are we saying it hasn't actually finished? :eh:
We're jumping to conclusions based on some circumstantial evidence.
Having said that, I wouldn't expect an announcement in the Nerve Centre. I imagine it would be quietly dropped.
(Correctly formatted version, not sure what happened above).
I suppose I'd best review the prog at some point.
Dredd was a nice little upbeat one-off to follow up the grimness of the Maitland story. Wasn't mad about the art though.
The two Kek-W stories are losing me a bit, I'm not entirely sure who is who and what's happening in either - both still lovely-looking and worth the read though.
Thistlebone is great, despite the very slow pace - hats off to creators and Tharg for trying something different and making it work.
FTB is just not my thing, sorry.
FTB is my favourite thing in the current prog alongside Thistlebone.
But what are you supposed to do if you have a kid who is a fan of FTB from regened and they are desperate to keep up with the latest episodes?
Rip the pages out so they don't get traumatised by Thistlebone and Deadworld?
Quote from: Vector14 on 15 March, 2024, 12:04:02 PMBut what are you supposed to do if you have a kid who is a fan of FTB from regened and they are desperate to keep up with the latest episodes?
The first TPB was announced pretty much as soon as the serialised version had finished running, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened this time. Is this question hypothetical, or do you actually know of such a child...?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 March, 2024, 06:04:05 PMQuote from: Jacqusie on 14 March, 2024, 06:03:00 PMQuote from: norton canes on 13 March, 2024, 12:06:51 PMKind of surprised there wasn't official confirmation in the Nerve Centre that Regened has come to an end (if indeed it has)
Having read all of this thread, are we saying it hasn't actually finished? :eh:
We're jumping to conclusions based on some circumstantial evidence.
Ah righto, sounds like the content of most of Social Media and indeed the current mainstream media.
Very good, carry on, as you were...
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 March, 2024, 12:23:24 PMQuote from: Vector14 on 15 March, 2024, 12:04:02 PMBut what are you supposed to do if you have a kid who is a fan of FTB from regened and they are desperate to keep up with the latest episodes?
The first TPB was announced pretty much as soon as the serialised version had finished running, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened this time. Is this question hypothetical, or do you actually know of such a child...?
Just Hypothetical,and I was being a bit tongue in cheek due to the tonal shift between FTB and the regular strips like Thistlebone.
I've just ordered the first Full Tilt Boogie tpb this week as it was going cheap on amazon and I'm really enjoying the current story, despite not knowing any backstory.
Quote from: Vector14 on 15 March, 2024, 02:48:14 PMJust Hypothetical,and I was being a bit tongue in cheek due to the tonal shift between FTB and the regular strips like Thistlebone.
You're not wrong about the tonal shift, but the thinking (I suspect... again, no hotline to TMO here) is that kids these days don't actually like serialised periodicals, so anything from Regened that can (could) comfortably sit in the prog gets a run there, before being quickly packaged up into a collected volume, a format which the YA audience much prefers and buys in very large numbers.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 March, 2024, 03:02:57 PMQuote from: Vector14 on 15 March, 2024, 02:48:14 PMJust Hypothetical,and I was being a bit tongue in cheek due to the tonal shift between FTB and the regular strips like Thistlebone.
You're not wrong about the tonal shift, but the thinking (I suspect... again, no hotline to TMO here) is that kids these days don't actually like serialised periodicals, so anything from Regened that can (could) comfortably sit in the prog gets a run there, before being quickly packaged up into a collected volume, a format which the YA audience much prefers and buys in very large numbers.
I'm sure that's true, as I see a lot of collected editions and graphic novels in the kids sections of book shops but very few serialized comics on the magazine racks. In Ireland I've never seen The Phoenix out in the wild but collected editions of Phoenix stories like Bunny vs monkey are in practically every book shop. It was the opposite when I was young as obviously the idea of graphic novels didn't really exist.
Quotebut very few serialized comics on the magazine racks
I mean, what actually exists today? In the UK, I know there are two weeklies: The Beano and The Phoenix. Anything else? Beyond that, Panini still has a few reprint mags that are, IIRC, monthly (unless the Spidey stuff is still fortnightly) and then there's the now monthly Monster Fun. Beyond specials, I can't recall anything else outside of the nursery range.
Commando, (which probably has limited appeal for that age range), and I think Toxic magazine is still going but I don't know how much comic content, (if any), it currently has in it, (it was reprinting the previous Lew Stringer stories the last I heard, and that was a few years ago).
Yeah, I imagine Commando isn't going to appeal to that many kids. As for Toxic, I just had a look on Readly. Its most recent two issues has all of three pages of comics – all reprint from Monster Fun.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 15 March, 2024, 07:46:34 PMYeah, I imagine Commando isn't going to appeal to that many kids. As for Toxic, I just had a look on Readly. Its most recent two issues has all of three pages of comics – all reprint from Monster Fun.
Trying to resist the obvious gag about how they should bring back The Driver and Accident Man.
That was a great Dredd story by Ken Niemand.
If anyone didn't get their copy of 2373, I now have two, first to DM me gets it free.