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The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread

Started by Colin YNWA, 22 May, 2016, 02:30:29 PM

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Colin YNWA

Well the mini-series in Progs 901 - 903 frankly weren't that good but these Progs are more significent for something else I'll get to.

Firstly the three issue shorts and what each of thrm lacked.

1. Durham Red - lacked a sense of any significence. The apparent 'depth' revealed by the dream sequence and trying to connect Red with her gothic loneliness felt trite.

2. Rogue Trooper - lacked pretty much everything. Not a fan of the character, its written by Millar - though arguibly far from his worse in the Prog and Chris Weston on his way, but not quite at his current greatness.

3. Bradley - lacked a point and good jokes

4. Nemesis - lacked a follow-up which was entirely necessary after this recap to bring us up to speed. I not a big fan of Clint Langley's art of this period either.

So while these shorter thrills was an interesting idea alas the execution was lacking...

... but the worse sin of these Prog is in Dredd as Wagner and Gibson turn Death into a pantomine entirely.

Still all this didn't last long and there's better things to come.

Colin YNWA

So Prog 904 gives us a fresh line-up and there will be much to talk about in the coming posts.

We have another Dredd cross-over in Wilderlands, can it learn lessons on how to do this from Judgement Day?

Can Mills, Patrick, Uncle learn lessons from previous ABC Warriors in Hellbringer... though he is still hangin' with that Skinner ne'er-do-well down the bussie.

Can Button Man II keep up the exquisite form of Book I?

But for immediate attention what can we learn from Big Dave 'Wotta lotta Balls' and Robo-Hunter - Metrobolis. Well we learn why Big Dave isn't a 2000ad story that's what.

Wotta Lotta Balls is - I think - Morrison, Mills and Parkhouses last Big Dave story. It doesn't change from what's gone before. Its buff, hard and funny. What it lacks in guile it more than makes up for in git and punching humour. Its a fun comic strip, just not a good 2000ad one.

Over in Metrobolis Hogan and Hughes return Robo-Hunter to former glories, yes I really do like this story that much. Its great. Its got the humour, its got the action but its also got the guile and the witty charm. And its thos elast two that Big Dave lacks and why it feels so at odds with 2000ad. A good 2000ad story tackles its subjects with punch and violence, with grim energy and agression But alongside that they almost always have a bit more guile than Big Dave has to offer. They have charm and don't need to bash you in the face with their message and scream how witty they are.

We're seen other strips do the and they too fail, but I think none lack the subtly quite the way Big Dave does... I'm not saying 2000ad stories are subtle, often far from it on the surface, but when they have a point they don't just punch you in the face with it so relentlessly... well unless Unca Pat is in one of his narks!

Colin YNWA

Tell you one thing we'll learning nothing from Red Razors except what a bloody waste of Nigel Dobbyn's superb art it is!

Colin YNWA

Well aren't I the chatternbox today. I'm rattling through the Progs and have answered all my questions:

QuoteCan Mills, Patrick, Uncle learn lessons from previous ABC Warriors in Hellbringer... though he is still hangin' with that Skinner ne'er-do-well down the bussie.

Well kinda, kinda not. Its a bit hard to tell as the whole putting the band back together thing is so tired. Its nice in that it allows a focus on each Warrior in turn so we learn about them but this is like the second time at least its been done and it'll happen so much in the future its hard to remember whether it felt this much of a drag back in the day or not.

QuoteCan Button Man II keep up the exquisite form of Book I?

Of course it can. Bloomin' great and I may have more to say when I'm done with it... we'll see.

QuoteWe have another Dredd cross-over in Wilderlands, can it learn lessons on how to do this from Judgement Day?

No, no they haven't. I've gone purist route again and just read the Progs and frankly it turns this story into a jumbled mess. Which is a shame as under all that there's a good long form story struggling to break out and it nicely ties off a couple of years worth of plotline very effectively.

It does have some really awkward bit outside format problems and largely on the art side I feel bound to say. Carlos is of course great but this is at the height of his Dredd as Beefcake phase and he's just to big here for my tastes. He's also at the start of experimenting with computers and it makes much of the art look much worse than it is. Those red background and wordart sound effects are really jarring. The colouring sees overfussly to and I think that's a product of some computer tomfoolery. These problems I know I felt at the time so its not just a case of backwards reflection.

Still at the core its a good story and the best praise I can give it is that this diminished read has made me want to go back and read it properly with the Meg stories included again... oh and I completely forgot about the Mike Austin fill-in.

Colin YNWA

Specials 1994

Can't remember if I'd mentioned this but since we have the Meg the Judge Dredd Specials and Yearbooks have become extentions of that comic. Which Judgement Day and the recently mentioned Wilderlands prove I'm far to lazy to drag into this re-read so I'm down to the 2000ad Sci-Fi Special Winter Special and Yearbooks (which will drop off soon).

Anyway this year the two specials are the usual mixed bag. Mind there's some common ground. Both have nice Brigand Doom with solid stories but wonderful art with Dave D'Antiquist's water colours really adding a fresh tone to his already superb work. They both have cute enjoyable text features by Alan McKenzie (if the talk of Alan being Roxilla is true). They also have effective one off, a Tale from Beyond Science in the Sci-fi a Terror Tale in the Horror themed Winter Special.

The Sci-Fi has a nice Robo-Hunter (Hogan and Jacobs) and some good art, but not much else aside.

The Winter Special, as is ever the case it would seemhas a little more on offer. A fun Dredd by Wagner and Burns - fantastic art, A decent Durham Red story and a harmless Tharg... so it tips i, but never is a standout.

Colin YNWA

Well at times like this we have to keep on keeping on. So...

2000ad Year book 1995

Last one and it would be nice to say it ends on a show stopper (yes I am watching that as I type) but alas... well okay there is some good. Firstly that cover just great. Then you open it and are welcomed by glorious Baike spread so perfectly designed for the gatefold format. The rest of the story is pretty good too.

The rest of the new content is just weak however, really weak. A dumb Tharg story, a shoulder shrug of a Terror Tale followed by a whine of a Bradley. The blandest Brigand Doom to date and the mind-blowingly bad Babe Race 2000... I mean that was special it was so horrible...

Then we get some nice padding reprint before a horrible Rogue Trooper to wrap up.

Such a shame such a lush format never really took off and then landed with a bump...

Colin YNWA

Prog 918 and the end of 1994

So there we have it I pick up the next Prog in my pile 918 and Carlos is on Dredd. This might not be my favourite period of his. His Dredd is really built and he's experimenting with computer colouring and its not always working.... but still bloody hell its magnificent. The story is so clear, the art so hard. One thing that isn't often talked about that struck me reading this in a reflective mood is how fantastic his vehicle design is. Everything looks so function, real and solid, yet carries a sense of the outlandish and futuristic. He does it with the city but looking tonight it was the vehicles that struck me... don't know why, maybe I'm just looking at things I've taken for granted before with fresher eyes...

...the other thing that struck me was how indicative of this time that opening Dredd is when cast against McRoxvillal's Mix next to it. Everything that's classic and cool about 2000ad sat right next to everything that some folks in the Prog at the time thought was classic and cool and was actually a bit annoying and souless.

Now I accept that 'Mix' is low hangin' fruit and all that but it was a very interesting contrast. The Dredd story 'The Vote' is straightforward, smart and perfectly dressed. Its the Fronz. Stood next to 'Mix' it just oozes cool 'cos it doesn't feel like its trying, it knows what it is, it done by two masters and its happy with that and respect their audience too. Mix is pushing, pushing, pushing its telling you of bands I've never heard of and I'd imagine few 2000ad fans will have... but it thinks its better than you because of it. It thinks its looking down at me from on high... alas its worked so hard to get to that high ground its just looks a bit silly as kip around to the next thrill...

...anyway the end of 1994 is annoying for more practial reason, its back to that old habit of not ending stories at the end of the year. All over the place this year stories at all sorts of stages... I hanker for the order we have these days!

Funt Solo

I don't think I ever read the Mix articles, although there's always been an attempt at covering entertainment media in some form or another.

Action Video 82-83
Cinefax 82-83
Flix 87-91
Bitz 88-92
Mix
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Funt Solo

What I meant to post was:

I don't think I ever read the Mix articles, although there's always been an attempt at covering entertainment media in some form or another.  Most of that's in the Megazine now, but in the prog it was going for a while:

Ro-Jaws' Robo-Review 79-83
Towards 2000 81-82
Action Video 82-83
Cinefax 82-83
Sci-Fi Book Scan 82-83
Tharg's Mighty Micro Page 82-85
Flix 87-93
Bitz 88-93
Vidz 88-95
Mix 89-95

I think the chaos vs order is an interesting one.  On the one hand, I'd have loved it if The Marauders (Rogue Trooper, 282-289) had been done by a single artist.  My preference would have been Cam Kennedy because I liked his Nort hoppers the best.  But on the other hand chaos can produce some amazing creativity. 

Take early Warhammer models: Squig Hoppers (basically space hoppers being ridden by goblins) and Doom Divers (suicidal goblin hang gliders) are wonderfully creative.  Modern Warhammer has turned into World of Warcraft on the tabletop.  It seems a lot more corporate and a lot less creative.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Colin YNWA

I think the key difference is where the older text pieces seemd to embrace their audience as time has gone on 'Mix' has increasingly self indulgent... unless 2000ad fans all turned into dance freaks in the mid ninties... I mean I did dance a lot in the middle 90s but not to anything 'Roxilla' was pimipin'

Colin YNWA

I predicted I would be able to just copy and paste my review of 1993 for 1994 as its all about ups and downs, highs and lows... and it is... but its no copy and paste job. To understand why let me take you... take you back to 1994.

See in 1994 I was at University of Sheffield, 1st year into 2nd. My comic reading had almost stopped entirely and only maybe Cerebus for a little longer and 2000ad still be delievered to my parents house. I'd still read it when I came home, but it was a quick ripe through before going here and there, taking this and that... and I've always kinda assumed that was why I don't really recall this period with any depth. My drifting from comics, the fact these Progs hadn't been lavished over the way Progs in the past had.

It was me, not them. I'd changed, we'd grown apart.

This seemed to hold as comics I'd previously enjoyed in the 700s and 800s proved to be a bit rubbish and the recovery started sooner than I'd thought...

... then 1994

See just like 1993 it is highs and lows, ups and down... but the man the lows are about as low as they get, they really are. The period at the beginning of the year in the 880s was, I think about as bad as they Prog has ever been... ever... I don't think it will get close to being this bad again, though time will tell. Thankfully this absolute low doesn't last too long, 10 progs maybe less.

The only thing that stops the recovery from stalling entirely is it is ups and downs and as such there are some real highs. The problem is they aren't as frequent and often quite as good. I mean sure we get Wagner back on Dredd which isn't to be sniffed at BUT it stumbles with Wilderlands... at least as I read it in the Prog alone.

We get the simply brilliant Button Man II, but good as it is, and it is good its not the revalation of the first which felt so fresh and different. John Smith steps back a little and while both the end of Deus Ex Machina and Revere are good there's not much else. All to often therefore we have to turn to the middle order to find our thrills. Brigand Doom, Armoured Gideon and new strips like Mambo while all having good outings shouldn't standout, against much of 1994 they do.

I'm not sure its the worst year in thrill power, even if it does have the very worst Progs, but it could be.

So we head into 1995 stumbling, but that's okay looks what's coming, optimism is building, a film is on the way and that can only be a good thing... right... I mean how can that go wrong...

Funt Solo

I've always considered Wilderlands a bit ropey.  The central premise was just difficult for me to accept: another Earth on the opposite side of the sun from us.  Also, it hasn't been mentioned since.  It's hardly canon.  I should re-read it, though: because I never have.

I think, a bit like you, I was so busy enjoying a social life back then that the sub-par parts of the comic didn't bother me much.  And it never got re-read, unlike the 80s, which got re-read until they almost disintegrated. 

(Well, I did re-read Phase IV, but that's special.)
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

TordelBack

Quote from: Funt Solo on 05 October, 2018, 10:42:06 PMAlso, it hasn't been mentioned since.  It's hardly canon. 

The utterly daft Hestia* might not have been mentioned again,  but plenty of other elements from Wilderlands go on to be pretty important: Dunesharks, Judge Castillo, and McGruder's second fall from grace.


*Lets just assume it's a particularly large dwarf planet with a bizarre orbit,   and that it and Pluto were reclassified with the advent of a manned presence in the outer solar system.

AlexF

The real problem with Wilderlands is that it's a Megazine epic shoehorned into the Prog. It's the culmination of the Mechanismo storyline (all in the Meg), and the quite brilliant Prologue + Tenth Planet storylines that ran in the Meg just before the epic proper started.

Oh, and the fluffed reveal of who the killer is in the final episode didn't help either.

As someone who always read the Mix pages and never understood a word, I would say that I genuinely believed I was supposed to like this kind of music if I was a 2000AD fan. But the closest I ever got to House music was Snap! and 2Unlimited on Now 24.

Of course, A. McKenzie's tenure as Tharg is pretty much over come 1995, although he'll appear several more times in the credits box as writer. Wonder what kind of music John Tomlinson was into?

Frank