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Prog 2280 - High-Octane Sci-Fi Action!

Started by broodblik, 04 May, 2022, 04:37:50 AM

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broodblik

When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Tomwe

I felt two school based stories in one special to be pretty bad planning. That said, both looked good and had their own ISP. Just might have been better spread out. The Dredd saw an artist who was involved in two previous 'pilots' get moved into primetime. I like his work but felt 'cadet' Dredd jarred with other depictions of him. Of course, Dredd is renowned for being flexible in his appearance, but he looked older, already weathered. Chopper was good!

rpwillis

Quote from: Bad City Blue on 05 May, 2022, 10:18:57 AM
Is Chris Wildgoose anything to do with Dylan Teague? I ask because the name "Teague" is the only one written on a block.
He tweeted about that, sounds like it's a homage to Dylan. https://twitter.com/MrRiktus/status/1496548869324382214

Funt Solo

Cadet Dredd: Red Medicine – definitely on the Trade Federation side of the "is it exciting as a plot?" fence. I know it says "All Ages Issue" on the front, but I assumed it meant younger: references to Babe Ruth were old when I was young. Cadet Dredd suffers from the template - Dredd isn't in charge because he's always subordinate to a mentor figure (but not the *same* mentor figure, so there's no room for character development), and he has to team up with Rico, and Rico has to say bad things to foreshadow his later corruption. I think there was a missed opportunity in this slot to do something more like "The Academy of Law": exploring the various recruits within the (contemporary) Academy, rather than being glued to Dredd's past.

Lowborn High – Kitchen sink Hogwarts? Wychdusk joins the recent ranks of Parsing Crimes Against Humanity, alongside Skip Tracer's Consociation (although the latter is actually a word). It feels like there are missing panels between the 9th and 10th pages. This shows a bit of promise, but I don't really dig the Harry Potter template so, for that reason, it falls flat.

Future Shock: Smart Home – tricky third act. I don't really understand the impact of the end. Rosie escapes, right? That's it? She's taken over Rose 2? Why's she obsessed with partying all of a sudden? It started out she wanted to know who she was, but that's never resolved.

The Unteachables – I love the title - partly because of that Channel 4 docu-series a couple of decades ago about the potential of students whose behavior or situation have shunted them almost out of the education system. I like the art, and the chutzpah - but the story doesn't make much sense, and I say that as someone who willingly accepts light sabers, sky surfing and giant ants.  Also - seems like there's missing panels between pages 6 and 7.

Chopper: What Goes Up – I think I said it all last time - but I find it very difficult to accept the transformation from the disaffected teenager original character to this happy go lucky Billy Whizz clone. For that reason, this is a chore to read - I need to force myself to do it out of loyalty to the prog. You know, there is room in an "all ages issue" for a genuine story about young people who aren't constantly happy.


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Summary - it's a really poor issue for me. Just nothing here that's a thrill to read. Sorry, Joko - I want to support the Regened issues, but they need better material. If they're successful, market-wise, then that's all good - and I suppose they'll continue, but - whoo - they're tough to love and just feel generally substandard next to the regular prog.


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Flipside - I'm a bit of an old codger, so what do I know? The nine-year old mini-Solo walked in when I was reading the Regened and it was open at the last page of Unteachables and the first page of Chopper - and she was like "YEAH! BOOOIIIINNNG! Cool!" and then chortling at "Arthur! Have you built yourself a laser cannon?"

So, the Regened prog feels like it's not for me because it really isn't for me. Do the next generation a favor, and give you Regened issues to them.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

IndigoPrime

#19
Yeah, this was... not good. And I say that as someone who is broadly in favour of the Regened project and who's enjoyed a fair bit of what's been published to date. The key problem I find is that I genuinely don't know who this is for. Now, obviously, I know the intent, but:

Quote from: Jacqusie on 04 May, 2022, 07:49:55 PMThis issue is great... for kids.

But... is it? Two of the stories are wrapped up in 40 years of continuity and make broad assumptive leaps about reader knowledge. Moreover, they are sanitised versions of characters that leave them flat, uninteresting and in at least one case deeply at odds with the market that's being targeted. And in a more general sense, I compare this particular issue with any random issue of The Phoenix and there's no competition. The level of storytelling (as opposed to the plots and strips) is inferior. The art is, at least, somewhat on par.

Cadet Dredd continues to be a misfire. Red Medicine appears to be yet another Mega City One entirely bereft of women, but that's not its biggest problem. Dredd, aside from throughout looking like a 40-year-old man, also comes across like a cantankerous old stick-in-the-mud git. And the underlying premise feels tone deaf in a world where even my 8yo is horribly aware of injustice. The flip of the med-judge from "I'm just trying to help people" to attempting to kill his accomplice in... being nice... feels forced, in order to let Dredd save the day. And so Dredd upholds the system, which means lots of people in need will go without.

For my kid reading this, I don't know what she'd take from this. The entire fabric of this strip feels flawed – like a very conservative take on what a comic should be. I don't think it's salvageable. But with Dredd being 2000 AD's main character, I have no idea what the solution would be. (Also, that manoeuvring of Rico to eventually becoming the person we know he'll be. My kid doesn't care. She doesn't need a gradual marriage of a new comic with 45 years of old comic. She wants good stories. Cadet Dredd is not good stories.)

Next up, Lowborn High is better, but just OK. The swooshy art is quite nice, but it is very Council Estate Hogwarts. I'm not sure it strays enough from that template to be its own thing, and doing any kind of linked narrative across issues that appear months apart doesn't strike me as smart. All of these strips need to be one-and-done or head to the main Prog so they can blaze through them and shove them into a trade. (Speaking of, that there are now four trades suggests that the stories must be landing to some degree in that format, otherwise we wouldn't have four trades; so that's something.)

Smart Home was a lot of fun. I agree with Funt that it fumbled the landing, but the lead up was a mix of clever, funny, heartbreaking and on point. And I grinned at that last panel. It could have done with a bit of script refinement to more smoothly reach that final moment. (My take: she convinces Rosie 2 of a better way, having learned it from the partying electronics. And perhaps she found who she was in that moment, which was her best day.)

The Unteachables strikes me as odd scheduling, being another school thing. I don't even remember the previous strip, which isn't ideal. And what is the strip? It's like a dystopian Bash St. Kids but where the adult teacher wins out? I dunno. This at least has some energy, some verve, and some nice moments. I'm not sure the story hangs together though. Compare it to, say, Mega Robots Bros and it falls short on that scale.

Then Chopper finishes things off. This reimagining has to be taken on its own merits, because it cannot be aligned with the character we know. On its own merits, it's... OK. I'm not sure what the artist appeared determined to make Richard Osman Block so phallic, but otherwise the art was solid. Judge Wannabe was a nice touch, but again is assumptive scripting – it only really works if you know Dredd, and adult Dredd at that. Seeing one MC-1 strip decades apart from the other in a comic designed for newcomers is a curious decision. And, again, this one didn't stick the landing. I'd have much sooner seen the meathead judge left on the ground as the others zoom away, mischievously. Instead, we get a somewhat po-faced "law and justice are not necessarily the same thing". I mean... yes? But there's so much of this stamping down going on in these Dreddworld strips that it just feels oppressive. I don't get what the comic is trying to achieve here.

Again, I haven't given these Progs to mini-IP yet. She loved the Cor/Buster specials and quite liked the Misty ones. She was warmish on Monster Fun, but found the storytelling a problem in the action strips. I can't imagine her reading this comic and really enjoying any of it, or caring about it compared to other publications she enjoys as a very comics-literate reader and constant devourer of new things.

So: Future Shocks > The Unteachables > Lowborn High > Chopper = Dredd, with only Future Shocks really getting over the barrier of goodness and both of the school strips straddling it in their own way. Here's hoping the next Regened is better.

Richard

I pretty much agree with everything Funt Solo and Indigo Prime said. I didn't really enjoy this prog. But I did think the art in the Future Shock and Lowborn High were very good.

Jacqusie

Quote from: Proudhuff on 05 May, 2022, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: Jacqusie on 04 May, 2022, 07:49:55 PM
I know I'll get hammered for this, but I still think in these days of needing every galactic groat and all that, I'm paying £5 for something that I don't want and won't read.

This issue is great... for kids. The stories are aimed at this audience (7-12 year olds?) and fair play 2000AD for supplying a comic for them that's bright and zany and wacky like the Beano or Whizzer & Chips.

I would just like to opt out of them please.

So are you a subbie or completist? Otherwise there's always the option to just say no.


I'm a subbie, so I don't think there is the option to say no, is there now?

I don't think the regend progs are a bad thing per-se, but I don't want to spend £20 on them each year really.

When renewing our subscriptions and there was the option to have a subscription without the Regened progs, it would be interesting to see how many went for it. I suppose there are many that would want to keep it and that would be great for them too.

I'm just not sure about the model as it is. I get the stories are for a much younger audeince, The Chopper story this issue is a case in point. I don't have kids to give my progs to and would just rather my 20 quid go on my gas bill, or bus ticket thanks Thrag.


IndigoPrime

I see it more as an investment. Without an influx of new readers, 2000 AD is dead long-term. And it's about ecosystem, not just the Prog: strips get compiled into books, which creates additional income. I just wish this Prog had been better. Mini-IP's Phoenix arrived earlier and I had a flick through. It's so much better than this Regened and, to be blunt, most of them. To be fair, The Phoenix has also been doing this for years, and this is very much a learning experience for Rebellion. But there really needs to be a closer look at storytelling and coherence above everything else. When the stories in Regened are too often more confused and have less clarity than the ones in the standard Prog, that's not good. And when what the magazine itself wants to say or be isn't at all clear, that's not good either.

Richard

Also I'm not convinced that children really want to spend their free time reading comics about school.

Dark Jimbo

Quote from: Richard on 07 May, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
Also I'm not convinced that children really want to spend their free time reading comics about school.

Harry Potter?
@jamesfeistdraws

Funt Solo

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 07 May, 2022, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: Richard on 07 May, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
Also I'm not convinced that children really want to spend their free time reading comics about school.

Harry Potter?

Whenever anyone mentions HP, I'm contractually obliged to tell me HP joke:

Hagrid on 'shrooms: "You're a lizard, Harry!"
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

nxylas

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 07 May, 2022, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: Richard on 07 May, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
Also I'm not convinced that children really want to spend their free time reading comics about school.

Harry Potter?
Or indeed The Bash Street Kids.
AIEEEEEE! It's the...THING from the HELL PLANET!

IndigoPrime

Quote from: Richard on 07 May, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
Also I'm not convinced that children really want to spend their free time reading comics about school.
My kid bloody loves Pamela Butchart, who has written entire series about a bunch of kids at a school who leap to absurdist conclusions regarding their school being invaded by aliens and otherworldly creatures. Then you have stuff like Mega Robo Bros in The Phoenix and, of course, Bash St. Kids. But the school needs to be a framework on to which you do something interesting and fun. The Unteachables has the potential for that, but, I dunno... There's just something off about some aspects of Regened. It feels like aspects of anarchy have been replaced by oppression.

Funt Solo

Quote from: Jacqusie on 07 May, 2022, 12:16:43 PM
...I don't want to spend £20 on them each year really.

I entirely appreciate your point about not wanting to purchase things you don't want to read. However, I'm a spreadsheet geek so I have to point out that you're not spending 20 quid a year on Regened: because your subscription is heavily subsidized.

In 2021, if you paid individually for each prog, it would have cost 168.84GBP. (Or 144.88 if you skipped the Regened issues.) But a yearly sub for the physical prog is only 120.

You could still argue that the Regened are somehow diluting your cost per page, but if you calculate that on the sub rate, the cost of the Regened issues is a theoretical 14.12.

The trouble is, arguing that ditching the Regened issues would reduce the cost of your (already heavily reduced) sub is like arguing that ditching the floppy would reduce the cost of the Megazine. There's a commonly held belief that it wouldn't, actually - instead just making the Meg impossible to produce. Maybe ditching the Regened off subs would make the prog non-profitable to produce?

Summary: there's a lot we don't know about the costing involved, but one can't accurately claim to be getting half-inched out of 20 quid when you've been given a 48.84 discount (and a *free* gift).

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Positive (altruistic) ways forward:

1. Think about the investment in the future viability of the comic you love.
2. Gift your Regened issues  - it could be to a child you know (yours, niece, nephew etc.) or that you don't (school library, local library, next door neighbor, charity shop etc.)
3. Think of the Regened as a creative hotbed where people can learn the craft - 2000 AD is one of the cornerstones of the UK comics' industry - but a lot of the content is tied into existing, proven creators. The Regened issues give other creatives a chance to get their foot in the door and keep the whole thing going.

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Final thought: my post up-thread is how I felt about reading those stories, and I didn't think they were great. But - I can never get as far as saying it shouldn't exist or that it shouldn't be part of my sub. It would be quite perverse if I was to turn around to all of these hard working creatives who're trying their best to produce a great product and say their effort wasn't worth my time. The art is way beyond anything I could hope to conjure with my current set of abilities, and I've never had a comic script published, and I've never edited a comic (or lettered one, or colored one). Reading it and criticizing it is the easy part - and I've only been able to do that for the last couple of decades thanks to Rebellion's business nous. I'll never have faith in yer gods, but I do have some in 2000 AD.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Colin YNWA

Is it possible to love Funt Solo more! Only you sir, only you!