The Political Thread

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Northern Ireland

Is not an equivalence.  NI was a religiously and politically-polorised society under military occupation.
Although we're fine now.

An equivalence to what? I was making a point about police numbers.

I'm also not sure how you define "military occupation" but I don't think it is an appropriate phrase to use in respect of Northern Ireland.

When you were 12, did you have fully armed military officers asking you where you were going and what you were doing, when you weren't going anwhere in particular and were just walking your dog? How would you define that? How many army watchtowers could you see from your bedroom window when you were a kid? Did you regularly see chinooks ferrying military hardware* hither and thither?

*That was kinda cool and in a funny way I miss it

[JOE SOAP]

I'm also not sure how you define "military occupation" but I don't think it is an appropriate phrase to use in respect of Northern Ireland.

'Feck it sure it's grand'

[Old Tankie]

Wow! That's an old photo, even before my time, looking at the kit I would say '69 or '70.

[JOE SOAP]

Spot on – it's 1969.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I got my first real six-string
Bought it at the five-and-dime
Played it 'til my fingers bled
Was the summer of '69

Me and some guys from school
Had a band and we tried real hard.
Jimmy quit, Jody got married
I should've known we'd never get far

Oh, when I look back now
That summer seemed to last forever
And if I had the choice
Yeah, I'd always wanna be there
Those were the best days of my life

Ain't no use in complainin'
When you've got a job to do
Spent my evenings down at the drive-in
And that's when I met you, yeah

Standin' on your mama's porch
You told me that you'd wait forever
Oh, and when you held my hand
I knew that it was now or never
Those were the best days of my life

Oh, yeah.
Back in the summer of '69, oh.

Man we were killin' time
We were young and restless
We needed to unwind
I guess nothin' can last forever, forever, no! yeah!

And now the times are changin'
Look at everything that's come and gone
Sometimes when I play that old six-string
I think about you, wonder what went wrong

Standin' on your mama's porch
You told me that it'd last forever
Oh, and when you held my hand
I knew that it was now or never
Those were the best days of my life

Oh, yeah.
Back in the summer of '69, oh.
It was the summer of '69, oh, yeah.
Me and my baby in '69, oh.
It was the summer, the summer, the summer of '69, yeah

[Tony Angelino]

It was a military operation. It wasn't a military occupation as, since I was a kid, Northern Ireland has been part of the UK. Military occupation has a more contentious meaning.   

[Old Tankie]

Do you know where that is Joe, is it Derry.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Do you know where that is Joe, is it Derry.

Well there's proof Tankie isn't a troll, he didn't call it Londonderry 

Looks more like North Belfast to me

[JOE SOAP]

I think it is Belfast.

[Old Tankie]

Thanks guys, it's been a long time.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I think it is Belfast.

Aye, looks like Gay Phil Cave Hill in the background

[JayzusB.Christ]

I remember a family holiday to Britain where we had to get the ferry back to Belfast instead of Dun Laoghaire.  My dad took a wrong turn and ended up in some military barracks.  Rifles trained on the car with kids in the back.  Not much fun.

[TordelBack]

Military occupation has a more contentious meaning.

Hmm, I don't have the lived-there experience of these nordie bastards, but as a Souther I can tell you that my experience of crossing that unmissed 'hard frontier' felt exactly like you were entering an area of this island that was under military occupation.  Kids barely old enough to shave pointing automatic weapons at you, and forcibly enquiring after your business in essentially foreign scouse/manc/estuary accents, watchtowers and sniper observation posts everywhere, RUC stations looking like the Lord Humungous' summer palace, and armed helicopters buzzing you when you went hillwalking...

It would have been hard to see the distinction between 'operation' and 'occupation', and that's speaking as someone whose family was largely Protestant.

[Steve Green]

I remember a family holiday to Britain where we had to get the ferry back to Belfast instead of Dun Laoghaire.  My dad took a wrong turn and ended up in some military barracks.  Rifles trained on the car with kids in the back.  Not much fun.

My mum and dad did similar, think it was a town used for training purposes... Was in the last 15 years or so, not quite as bad as it could have been...

[The Legendary Shark]

When I was growing up the situation in Ireland was portrayed as too complex for ordinary people to understand and frequently boiled down to a simple "us and them" thing (like apartheid, the Cold War and the Middle East). Adults I otherwise respected were suspicious of and sometimes downright hostile towards anyone from Ireland and when I asked them why the answers were always unsatisfactory.

I never understood it but even then I felt vaguely ashamed without knowing why. My heart goes out to everyone who suffered during The Euphemisms and I hope and pray we'll never be so stupid and inhuman again.