No Shock Doctrine for Haiti

[JOE SOAP]

If anything it's an argument for a much stronger UN.

Stronger reactively and practically rather than bureaucratically which is more the way it's going. I always saw the UN as being Thunderbirds rather than the Federation.

[TordelBack]

I always saw the UN as being Thunderbirds rather than the Federation.

Amen to that, GM.

[Peter Wolf]

 If anything it's an argument for a much stronger UN.

Thats fair enough but its dependent on what the mandate of the UNs mission and what rules of engagement/peacekeeping roles it is subject to in Haiti.After all the UN is controlled by politicians and shadow govt like the CFR etc.

I often criticise the UN but i am not against the UN in principle and what it is supposed to be about but unfortunately what it is meant to be about and what it actually is about are two completely different things and in a way like govt it is becoming more and more unfit for purpose because of who is controlling it.The UN are only ever going to be as effective at impartial peacekeeping as they are allowed to be.

I think the thing to do here is to follow and watch this situation very closely.I know i will be and perhaps the military and the UN will be a force for good in Haiti.We shall see.....

The solution to that problem is to make sure that independent journalists have access to the area to monitor what is going on because the UN and US forces should be subject to independent oversight.There are organisations that do monitor these kinds of situations who are not affiliated to the UN but i forget their names.

Ex presidents Bush and Clinton [appointed by Obama] have launched a relief fund to provide financial aid to Haiti.

This really inspires confidence.


"Never let a serious crisis go to waste...what i mean by that is its an opportunity to do things you couldnt do before."

[Emperor]

That's very true but you have to be mindful of the fact that the reason Haiti is incapable of responding to the disaster any way constructively is not solely the earthquake but the fact that the US has screwed the country's democratic and economic development since colonial times.

We shouldn't let the French off the hook either. The problem is Haiti has been pretty much dealt the worst set of cards geographically, geologically, meteorologicaly, politically, historically and economically. Since we Europeans were nice enough to "discover" it the country has been the most systematically abused nation on Earth, just nudging out the Congo thanks to the weather. This makes depressing reading:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/14/haiti-history-earthquake-disaster

Also worth contrasting it with the Dominican Republic:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/15/forces-working-against-haiti

Also note the Heroes 4 Haiti thread.(which possibly might be in the wrong forum I suppose).

[JOE SOAP]

That's very true but you have to be mindful of the fact that the reason Haiti is incapable of responding to the disaster any way constructively is not solely the earthquake but the fact that the US has screwed the country's democratic and economic development since colonial times.

We shouldn't let the French off the hook either. The problem is Haiti has been pretty much dealt the worst set of cards geographically, geologically, meteorologicaly, politically, historically and economically. Since we Europeans were nice enough to "discover" it the country has been the most systematically abused nation on Earth, just nudging out the Congo thanks to the weather. This makes depressing reading:

I wasn't letting the French away with it, that's why I referenced "colonial times". The US has always been a collective of European colonies, but when you see that Obama has promised $733 billion for the next yearly war budget, the biggest in history & more than the so called "war president" Bush, I don't feel humanity truly matters to the powers that be.

[Peter Wolf]

Did anyone know that Haiti apparently has huge offshore oil reserves that havent even been touched.It has more oil reserves than the US does at present and more oil reserves than Venezuela.Haiti is also very rich in mineral resources and gas reserves again which havent been exploited.

The only thing that has been exploited and will be exploited is the people of Haiti and like i said earlier it is a military operation that is going on in Haiti that is an occupation not a humanitarian exercise.

Why has the US just built a 100 million USD embassy in Haiti ?

Thats right its because Haiti is about to become a protectorate of the US .US colonialism.

So YES lets hope that the UN/US forces and occupation brings democracy - stability - freedom - and prosperity to the people of Haiti !!

[JOE SOAP]

It also has the densest population on earth with 97% of it's forestry gone. It's main export was people as cheap labour to the US.

[JOE SOAP]

Why has the US just built a 100 million USD embassy in Haiti ?

To better serve the Ferrero Rocher of course.

[W. R. Logan]

Whilst everyones pointing fingers at the yanks and French for Haiti's problems shouldnt we look closer to home for the cause and blame the Haitians themselves for some the problems.

[mygrimmbrother]

No.

[Peter Wolf]

Whilst everyones pointing fingers at the yanks and French for Haiti's problems shouldnt we look closer to home for the cause and blame the Haitians themselves for some the problems.

Only in the sense that Haitians are relatively uneducated and living in poverty.Beyond that they are not to blame.

[JOE SOAP]

Whilst everyones pointing fingers at the yanks and French for Haiti's problems shouldnt we look closer to home for the cause and blame the Haitians themselves for some the problems.

You mean the ruling Haitians on the payroll of foreign oligarchs? I can blame them yes but not the ordinary grunts. The same way you can't really blame Iraqis for Saddam Hussein, cos when they did revolt they got screwed by the US, a tyranny solidified by UN santions. If Haiti were a free nation it would be a valid point but anytime Haiti reached that level of civil freedom it was quashed by an iron fist. Same story in all third world nations.

[The Legendary Shark]

Haiti's nationalised flour mill was sold to a US company (whose board included Henry Kissinger). The flour mill was later closed down because it was unprofitable, meaning Haiti now has to import all its flour. Haiti also had a nationalised concrete industry, which was sold to a US company and subsequently closed because it was unprofitable. Now Haiti has to import all its concrete. These deals were done by Haitian dictatorships put into place by the US.

How Haiti would love those two industries to be up and running right now.

Luckily, Uncle Sam is on hand to sell the poor Haitians everything they need.

Conspiracy theory or no, how can we as civilized people possibly regard this as decent human behaviour? The world is waking up, however, and hopefully the more light we shed on these despicable practices and people, the less they'll be able to continue getting away with (and profiting hugely from) schemes such as this. There's no need to stand anyone against a wall and shoot them, all we need do is take note and spread the word. These bastards hate the light.

[JOE SOAP]

Considering the US could end up having up to 30,000 troops eventually stationed in Haiti, and we know that they never really leave once they arrive plus they've already secured the drug trade in Haiti, maybe they're waiting for Castro to pop his clogs soon so they can easily move in from Haiti or to some other South American country like Venezuela. They didn't even have as many troops in Afghanistan for the first two and a half years of the invasion.

...and to really put my "conspiracy" hat on just cos this is a sci fi forum and I feel like it. I found this article on nextgov, a government sponsored tech journal, it states that simulations of a hurricane disaster in Haiti were being run on Monday the day before the earthquake, coincidence?...who knows...maybe these tests are run everyday, it's a complex world. Can they really make the earth move and is it any wonder people are paranoid:

Defense launches online system to coordinate Haiti relief efforts

BY BOB BREWIN 01/15/2010

ROY SANTANA/AP

As personnel representing hundreds of government and nongovernment agencies from around the world rush to the aid of earthquake-devastated Haiti, the Defense Information Systems Agency has launched a Web portal with multiple social networking tools to aid in coordinating their efforts.

On Monday, Jean Demay, DISA's technical manager for the agency's Transnational Information Sharing Cooperation project, happened to be at the headquarters of the U.S. Southern Command in Miami preparing for a test of the system in a scenario that involved providing relief to Haiti in the wake of a hurricane. After the earthquake hit on Tuesday, Demay said SOUTHCOM decided to go live with the system. On Wednesday, DISA opened up its All Partners Access Network, supported by the Transnational Information Sharing Cooperation project, to any organization supporting Haiti relief efforts.

The information sharing project, developed with backing from both SOUTHCOM and the Defense Department's European Command, has been in development for three years. It is designed to facilitate multilateral collaboration between federal and nongovernmental agencies.

http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20100115_9940.php

[The Legendary Shark]

Can they really make the earth move and is it any wonder people are paranoid

"Nikola Tesla is primarily thought of as an electrical genius, but he also was responsible for a number of mechanical devices. One of the most notorious of these was his "Earthquake Machine" otherwise known as the Tesla Oscillator. The machine which Tesla tested was small, around seven inches long, and weighing only one or two pounds; something "you could put in your overcoat pocket". In 1898, Tesla's New York lab was nearly shaken to pieces with this ittle device, operated by only five pounds of air pressure acting against a special pneumatic piston device. The whole assembly was designed to be powered by steam pressure."

from:  http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/Tesla/Oscillator.html