2000 AD Online Forum

Spoilers => Prog => : Mattofthespurs 01 December, 2012, 10:29:31 AM

: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mattofthespurs 01 December, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
Thank Grud this turned up on time.

No spoilers from me. Just to say that this is one of the best progs I have ever read and I've read em all.

Filled with superb quotes (choose your favourite and post em up! Mine is; Dirty Frank "Justice".

For my money Dirty Frank just edges out Point as the character in all this.

Totally fantastic.

Damn comic gave me goosebumps. Twice.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 01 December, 2012, 10:35:14 AM
I will not look at this thread until Wednesday, I will not look at this thread until Wednesday, I WILL NOT look at this thread until Wednesday ...
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: janus stark 01 December, 2012, 10:46:55 AM
postie is normally here by now, cant take much more.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: LARF 01 December, 2012, 11:05:34 AM
I'm currently halfway through and coming up for air. This is the best Prog ever created and is summed up by Point in the centre spread panel 6, 'any drokker recording this there'd be geek jives O.D. Ing on a citywide squee.'

Arsom!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: oshii 01 December, 2012, 11:23:43 AM
First bloody time in months it hasn't turned up on a Saturday.  Bloody typical.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 01 December, 2012, 11:30:47 AM
BAH! So I get my Zombie Flesh Eaters Steelbook and Profando Rosso BD but not the prog! GRUD ON A GREENIE! >:(
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: James Stacey 01 December, 2012, 11:55:41 AM
Well that was a bit good. I was really excited to see how they would tie everything together especially with the artists. Great choice of person to do that with some fairly staggering imagery. Smiley, despite the foreshadowing felt a bit deus ex but I can't see how that could be avoided, and he'll clearly be back in a future Low Life. I was also getting a little feeling of 'fan service' till Point pretty much said the same thing which made me laugh. All in all a cracking end and using the whole Prog meant it didn't feel an abrupt end. Hurrah.

Oh and thrills of the future - John Burns on Sinister Dexter. Interested to see how that works.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Batman's Superior Cousin 01 December, 2012, 12:13:58 PM
No sign of the postie :'(
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Pioneer 01 December, 2012, 12:18:27 PM
I got two copies delivered this morning! Unbelievable really, after a couple of weeks of disappointed Saturday mornings. Obviously the second one was a mistaken delivery by the postie, gonna deliver it myself as soon as I get out of my morning at work. Any fellow squaxx live in Swanage??
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Trout 01 December, 2012, 12:20:01 PM
This morning I read prog 1812 in the waiting room outside my daughter's ballet class. I was surrounded by aspirational middle-class parents in crisp sportswear, and I sat, chuckling loudly, in my Wicker Man T-shirt, torn jeans and smelly old fleece feeling a spirit of brotherhood with Dirty Frank. Those fuckers will never know my joy. Hell of a prog.

The real beauty of this comic is in the editing. Steering it home has obviously been a challenge, but it's united three discrete strips with very different writing styles to give us a highlight in modern comics. The gritty Dredd story, the wordy noirish monologuing of Jack Point and Dirty Frank's unhygenic hilarity somehow combine into something that just works. It shouldn't - it should jar - but holy fuck it works, this shark-headed electronosing bang bang shooty shooty twisty turny justice-powered festival of backstory and supporting cast.

My highlights:

Judge Smiley looks just like Alan Bennett.
Point: "I'm deputisin' you morons in the name of the law!"
The meeting between DeMarco and Dredd. Uncomfortable.
Overdrive: "Name one thing you have that I cannot buy?" Frank: "Justice."
And that splash page. Beautiful and cheeky. I grinned.

There's more, of course. There are re-reads and discussions to come, as we peel apart the layers and enjoy the subtler parts, like when the writers peek out from behind the eyes of their characters. The "saudade" reference is explained, too, although I think it works on several levels; I'll have to have a bit of a think about it. All the loose plot threads appear to be tied up but I'll need to go over it again. There are more rewards to come.

But, overall: prog of the year. Dredd story of the year, despite John Wagner being at his best on Day of Chaos. I cannot praise this comic enough. Aren't we lucky?

- Trout
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Danbo 01 December, 2012, 12:34:05 PM
Outstanding prog,still surprising me after all these years.

Quite simply the best comic I have read in years.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dandontdare 01 December, 2012, 12:59:17 PM
Grrr no prog. Double SharkbahTM.

Must... avoid... thread
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: IndigoPrime 01 December, 2012, 01:17:44 PM
Excellent stuff. Almost feels like we're getting two end-of-year Progs this year.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dark Jimbo 01 December, 2012, 02:26:09 PM
Well that was rather splendid.

What a great way to sign off on a fantastic year for Dredd. I don't know what to say, constructively speaking, that I haven't already said in the weeks leading up, or that won't inevitably be said several times on thsi thread by others. Suffice to say that I can't remember the last prog I enjoyed quite as much. Maybe my fave moment was a small one - Dirty Frank's 'That's the point. Which comes right after the Jack. Dirty Frank embraces the collaborative spirit.' Or perhaps Hershey kickin' arse and takin' names in the Grand Hall. Also looking forward to more from Smiley in future.

I can already guess the exact panels Goaty's going to be posting as soon as he gets his prog.  :D It's like a 'spot the ball' I like to play every week.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Kerrin 01 December, 2012, 02:57:32 PM
TRIFFIC!!! Good eh? Took me ages to think of that.

Best prog in living memory. Far too many points of excellence to go into them all but my favourite line? BIG BARRY PENGE! BIG BARRY PENGE!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Fisticuffs 01 December, 2012, 04:17:00 PM
Excellent! Emminently quotable, funny, action packed and a very skillful winding up of three seperate storylines. Loved it all, too many good bits to list them all, although I loved Points Clowns and Aliens vs Ninjas line, made me chuckle.

Also relieved that all major characters remained alive! Was genuinely worried at which one we might lose, could've been anyone.

And how many people died on board Luna 2?! Is Dirty Frank catching up with Dredd in the mass-murdering stakes?!.

Struggling to see how Prog 2013 can top this!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Buttonman 01 December, 2012, 04:26:21 PM
I concur with the positive messages posted thus far. I read it in the bath with oohs and ahhs abounding. Shouldn't manage the hot tap with my feet. Great concept with flawless execution - still surprising and thrilling after 35 years. Tharg you do indeed spoil us.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Pete Wells 01 December, 2012, 04:53:53 PM
Hey, nice new avatar BM!

As others have said, it was a frikkin' AMAZING prog! Far too many highlights to mention with Carl Critchlow handling every character admirably. Some of his pages were simply stunning, giving a real epic feel to proceedings.

Good Grud, Day of Chaos, a couple of clunky, but necessary mini parters, then this! What a year for Dredd!

Fave line of the prog "Who the hell's gonna mess with us?" Classic!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Pete Wells 01 December, 2012, 04:58:12 PM
Bah, double post but I forgot to say, I love the loose ends this leaves - most notably (until I read it again,) is just how much of a problem is Judge Smiley going to be and where on earth does this leave Dredd and Hershey?

Can't wait to find out!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Richard 01 December, 2012, 05:22:02 PM
That was a very special prog. Well done to all concerned.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JUDGE BURNS 01 December, 2012, 05:38:23 PM
My prog arrived today just before 1pm........My sweaty hands were shaking uncontrollably as I tried to tear off the wrapper after my subscription prog dropped onto the floor.  I teased it out quickly scanned each page and it blew my mind !  What a story (3 stories) and what a finish ...WOW

   I have re-read it quite a few times today now.

 THIS IS WHY I JUST LOVE 2000AD. Awesome stories and awesome artwork at its best.



Best line..." Who the hell's gonna mess with us?" 
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dark Jimbo 01 December, 2012, 05:51:58 PM
Bah, double post but I forgot to say, I love the loose ends this leaves - most notably (until I read it again,) is just how much of a problem is Judge Smiley going to be and where on earth does this leave Dredd and Hershey?

I love that Smiley, a significant behind-the-scenes player in Simping Detective for years now, has suddenly become a prominent figure in Low Life and Dirty Frank's backstory. Wonder who claims credit for the character? Kinda feels, incidentally, like Point's almost had his swansong, with all his strip's ongoing plot threads relatively tied up - Daveez dead and Travis dead, Smiley revealed, Demarco in his bed. Doesn't seem as if Spurrier means to return to him any time soon, but it's a nice place to leave him.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: mygrimmbrother 01 December, 2012, 05:54:04 PM
Yep, they managed to pull it all off didn't they? Huge kudos to the creators, not least for the audacity of the whole thing. Critchlow on art was a great choice and made me hunger for more. Was it really the prelude to Tour of Duty we saw him last? C'mon Tharg, the pjrase 'criminally underused' is applicable here I think.

My one tiny gripe is that we didn't lose any of the main cast. The story felt so big and ambitious that not losing anyone sort of feels like we got a bit short-changed. But if that someone had have been Dirty Frank, I think I may have wept uncontrollably into my morning cuppa.

Hard to see how the end of year prog can top this (Dirty) frankly.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Eamonn Clarke 01 December, 2012, 06:07:59 PM
Mr Wells has it right: Day of Chaos and now this, plus two good Dredd movies. A great year for 2000AD
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Trout 01 December, 2012, 06:11:27 PM
Doesn't seem as if Spurrier means to return to him any time soon

I did wonder who was saying goodbye in that last white-on-black caption.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Colin YNWA 01 December, 2012, 07:40:15 PM
The postie was quite the tease today and only dropped his load when we were on our way out after lunch and so only just been able to get deep into this now.

It was always going to be difficult to pull off a climax to what had gone before, but you know what, it was big, it was brash, but the threesome just about held it together, so we can all be satisfied and everything came together nicely in the end.

So impressed as our aerial fishy ex-monarch said with how three different style slipped in together so seamlessly, squeezed in perfectly and thrillingly.

Mind it wasn't perfect, though it looked absolutely bloody epic, wonderful choice of artist. At first I was a bit muh about the fact that the three big bads all got off'd in the same fashion, appointed enemy at their mercy until entrance from off panel guns them down, then I realised the echoing of the ends of the three storylines was entirely apt and perfect reflection of the build up.

The biggest problem was we'd had our surprises, we knew what was coming and so while it was suitably epic it didn't quite have the thrill and intrigue of what had gone before. It also doesn't feel like it will have any real long term consequences  which it felt like it deserved, but being none Wagner we probably shouldn't have expected... and I guess in some ways I'm glad... well I say no consequences but love the new Dredd Hershey dynamic (I'll spoiler in case people aren't sure if she makes it out?) and Smiley has a shed load of potential for the future.

I think when read as one this ending will feel as wonderful and fitting as the rest and entirely suitable. Just right now in isolation, when you compare it to say Eurotrash's similar Prog long ending and as I say in isolation, it doesn't feel quite so perfect...

ASTONISHINGLY GOOD mind, just not quite at the mind blowing level of the build up... oh and I mention Eurotrash deliberately as good as this was my nerdgasm came a bit too early, when I shot my bolt with that thrills of the future ad. I'd asked Simon Davis recently if he'd be coming back to Sinister Dexter and he said, as I expected, that he was pretty much done with it, I was sad... then John Burn steps up and colour me giddy, that is just glorious I simply can't wait for that (as long as he can share duties with Anthony Williams?)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Trout 01 December, 2012, 07:46:47 PM
By the way, Tharg mentions two past progs which were single-story issues: the Dredd/Fr1day one and the Slaine one. I'm sure there was a Dredd one, too. Wasn't In The Year 2120 a full-prog story? Or was it just a longer one?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 01 December, 2012, 07:54:08 PM
From memory of wiki searches;
EuroCrash final istalment
Dredd/ Friday
Some story that wraped up events of City of the Damned in prog 2120
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 01 December, 2012, 07:54:54 PM
Edit! Prog 1077. The story was called In the Year 2120.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: sheldipez 01 December, 2012, 07:59:08 PM
Looks like prog 1812 was so shocking that it's prompted someone to sell their 2000ad collection off (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-AD-Judge-Dread-Megazine-/281032333975?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3855273776534620843%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D281032333975%26)  :lol:
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Darren Stephens 01 December, 2012, 08:40:19 PM
I'd like to add my name to the list of those requiring thrill buffer reinforcement surgery after this weeks prog. I must admit to feeling a little bit....underwhelmed when I heard Carl Critchlow was handling the art duties. I really like his stuff, but it felt a strange fit. I needn't  have worried. His work here is fucking phenomenal, no other word for it. Kudos to all concerned and happy Christmas! :-)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Richard 01 December, 2012, 09:58:09 PM
You have to wonder how on earth they are going to put together a graphic novel of this whole thing, given that the three strands developed simultaneously side-by-side.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: DrJomster 01 December, 2012, 10:15:47 PM
Well done everyone for bringing it home so well. Script, art, lettering, all coming together in one superlative package. Really, really good. What a year for 2000AD!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Robert Frazer 01 December, 2012, 10:53:02 PM
I think that the "Cold Deck" GN would have to be printed as-published - you couldn't run each full story in series because as we've seen over the past few weeks developments have happened alongside each other and one instalment has informed the others (for instance, last week, Dredd's "Bullet to King Four" line was quoted in Low Life). You'd have to print it part-by-part to convey the necessary synchornicity of story development.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Cactus 01 December, 2012, 10:54:31 PM
You have to wonder how on earth they are going to put together a graphic novel of this whole thing, given that the three strands developed simultaneously side-by-side.

I have a feeling that each story will read clearly on its own. I'd also really like to see a volume collecting them all, with each episode in order of publication. Call it Trifecta, put this week's excellent cover art on the front and it's money in the bank.

Oh yeah, great prog by the way.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: A.Cow 02 December, 2012, 03:25:32 AM
Dredd:  There are literally no superlatives strong enough to describe the love I have for this year's big Dredd stories.  First we're spoiled by Day of Chaos and the the whole Cold Deck catches everybody (apart from The Mighty One, of course) by surprise.  You know you're living in a golden age when even the Michael Carroll fillers are coming several items down the list.  What a corking way to end the 35th year of 2000 AD!

Red Seas:  Oh, hang on.  Not in this prog.  But it will be again soon.  As I used to always say: "All good things must come to an end; this is why Family Fortunes is still on the telly."  However, hopefully, Red Seas will soon be over.  I won't mourn it.

Sinister Dexter preview:  Well, there's something else I didn't expect.  I thought we'd seen the last of this pair.  I've enjoyed it in many places, but it's never really been consistent enough to please me.  Let's hope the Burns Droid adds some much-needed quality.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: jabish 02 December, 2012, 08:42:25 AM
Great end to a great story. Fun, exciting and shows the kind of stories possible now in the post Day of Chaos setup. Great Dredd, I warmed more to Simping Detective than I have before and Dirty Frank and LowLife was the standout through the whole thing. But the man of the match is Matt Smith for what must have been a logistical nightmare to edit and yet made it look effortless. It really shows up the big American comics crossovers as being messy and unwieldy. While Day of Chaos is still my favourite Dredd story of the past few years (one of my favourite pieces of fiction for the past few years to be honest) and won't be topped for a long long time, this has been very entertaining, and in a time when I was considering switching to a digital sub may have convinced me to stay on paper for another bit at least. Congrats to all concerned. Nice one.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: radiator 02 December, 2012, 10:53:33 AM
Mr Wells has it right: Day of Chaos and now this, plus two good Dredd movies. A great year for 2000AD

Make that:

Two amazing Dredd films (and the legendary DREDD fan screening).
Two amazing Dredd soundtrack albums.
Two amazing Dredd epics in the prog.
The finale of the wonderful Nikolai Dante.
The start of a new US Dredd comic.
Johnny Alpha back for the dead.
Dredd cover art hardback book.

I'm going to go for 'best year for 2000ad fans ever'.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: judda fett 02 December, 2012, 02:36:35 PM
Only skim reading this thread, (trying not to tear off the flimsy black spoiler negligee) I can hardly wait for Wednesday. A quick question for squaxx- does anyone else still read/ hear Franks dialogue in a Northampton accent?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 02 December, 2012, 02:46:11 PM
A quick question for squaxx- does anyone else still read/ hear Franks dialogue in a Northampton accent?
Quite scarily, yes!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mark Taylor 02 December, 2012, 02:50:11 PM
I think that the "Cold Deck" GN would have to be printed as-published - you couldn't run each full story in series because as we've seen over the past few weeks developments have happened alongside each other and one instalment has informed the others (for instance, last week, Dredd's "Bullet to King Four" line was quoted in Low Life). You'd have to print it part-by-part to convey the necessary synchornicity of story development.

I personally would like to see it as the 'main feature' of Mega-City Undercover, Vol.3. Kicking off with the recent Low Life and Lenny Zero stories (The Deal and Zero's Seven), Then into a couple of the Judge Dredd stories which foreshadowed The Cold Deck, concluding with the whole Cold Deck/Trifecta story itself. I realise you wouldn't normally see actual Judge Dredd stories in M-C Undercover but I think it's appropriate to make an exception in this case. Dredd's about as 'undecover' as he gets in this storyline and his activities are tied up with those of undercover judges. The Simping Detective seems unlikely to get another volume of it's own and is a natural fit for M-C Undercover in any case.

Plus this way, we get to see The Deal and Zero's Seven in GN format sooner rather than (probably much) later. It would also make for a satisfyingly plump volume, around 250+ pages.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: judda fett 02 December, 2012, 03:03:40 PM
A quick question for squaxx- does anyone else still read/ hear Franks dialogue in a Northampton accent?
Quite scarily, yes!

Glad its not just me then.

As for Cold Deck collected I think a standalone collection including the introduction of Bachmann/ Black Ops and "a couple of the Judge Dredd stories which foreshadowed The Cold Deck, concluding with the whole Cold Deck/Trifecta story itself.". Im looking forward to a lovely 3 part Megazine interview with the Cold Deck creators too which is surely on the cards.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: moly 02 December, 2012, 06:13:00 PM
What a fantastic prog and what a fantastic year for 2000ad can't wait till 2013
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 02 December, 2012, 06:35:47 PM
I think the Trifecta GN should be published in linear fashion, including The Family Man and Bullet to King for as prequels, followed by The Cold Deck, Jokers to the Right, Saudade and finaly Trifecta.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Kudos 02 December, 2012, 07:42:37 PM
I haven't got my hands on the prog yet but I have a question for those that have. What's the layout of the prog? Is this one single story using the whole prog with art by Carl Critchlow or is it a final episode of each of the three Dredd/Frank/Point strips and a finale combining the three by Critchlow? Also who gets the writing credits here?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Batman's Superior Cousin 02 December, 2012, 07:45:03 PM
One single story
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Eamonn Clarke 02 December, 2012, 07:53:11 PM
... with writing credits for all three of the script droids
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Kudos 02 December, 2012, 08:06:41 PM
Cheers for the swift answers.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Proudhuff 02 December, 2012, 08:33:38 PM
Well that was  wonderful,Gordon Bennet's Brother makes his appearance and a giant shark isn't jumped but lands in the Black Adlantic really topnotch prog, only minor mionr gripe is Carl's Dredd lacks  gravitas, thought the real Dredd was coming out from behind trhat secret door still loving Hershey/Dredd clash

all this and an xmas prog!! You spoil us ambassThargy!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Fisticuffs 02 December, 2012, 09:05:15 PM
Read it again this evening. Reckon Point gets 90% of the good lines in this prog. The two-panel of Point realising he's still a Judge is priceless. :D
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dan Kelly 03 December, 2012, 02:28:24 PM
Well finally managed to read through uninterrupted and overall pretty great.

I've some unease about the deus ex machina nature of Frank's contribution, but that's assuaged by Frank's realisation of just that.

No groundbreaking changes to the status quo either but some interesting teasers of where things will go Dredd / Hershey, What did Frank see in the Blizzard, Smiley's future

Also has Bachmann really been around that long?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Proudhuff 03 December, 2012, 02:41:07 PM
Was Judge Smiley in that H-Wagon that picked up Dirty Frank when he can in from the cold?  ;)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dan Kelly 03 December, 2012, 04:06:11 PM
Was Judge Smiley in that H-Wagon that picked up Dirty Frank when he can in from the cold?  ;)

That's my thinking of it.  So was that an early black ops mission ?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Jim_Campbell 03 December, 2012, 04:31:59 PM
So… 1812 arrives and, like the overture with which it shares its name, is full of magnificence and spectacle.

I can offer no more than this:

(http://holykkphils.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/applause.gif)

Bravo, gentlemen. Bravo.

Cheers!

Jim
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: vzzbux 03 December, 2012, 06:08:57 PM
My only crit is the fact that Dredds powers of recovery are just SUPERhuman. Yeh he was moderately patched up and had a shot of adrenaline but still..




V
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JamesC 03 December, 2012, 06:35:55 PM
Just read it. Fucking hell that was just amazingly good, hats off to all involved.
The best £2.35 I've ever spent. I don't know how they do it.

Tharg - put the price up! I'll happily pay an extra 50p a week to give these quality droids a pay rise!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Batman's Superior Cousin 03 December, 2012, 07:36:39 PM
Both The Cold Deck & Trifecta will forever rank among one of the greatest Dredd-verse stories alongside Beat the Devil, California Babylon, Choose your own Xmas, Day of Chaos, Debris, Meet the Umbersons, Monkey on my Back, O Little Town of Bethlehem, Old Man Time, Regime Change & Served Cold. Judge Bachmann & Enormo Overdrive, meanwhile, will rank amongst one of my FAVOURITE Dredd-verse antagonists in recent years, alongside udge Sinfield, Judge Cal, PJ Maybe, the New Mutant Army under Ex-President Booth, Total War, the Dark Judges, Masahisa Yamaguci & Yevgeny Borisenko and fellow 2000AD antagonists Ethan Kostabi, Cinnabar Brenneka, Dmitri Romanov, the Traitor General, Doctor Friedkin, Howard Quartz & his grandson Vince Quartz, Torquemada, Lucifer Morningstar & both the Countess Bernoulli & “Estabez” (from the recent Stickleback tale)!!!

(http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/joker.gif)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8rjv1NIJA1qg1uou.gif)
(http://www.dsmfusion.com/images/businessman_clapping.gif)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mikey 04 December, 2012, 09:39:46 AM
Magnificent. That's been one of the most satisfying reading experiences I've ever had and probably my favourite finish to an 'epic' in the prog to date. Absolutely sterling effort and execution from all the creators for bringing it all together - a heartfelt thanks from me to all involved. Magnificent.

Plus, I think it shows the strength of the droid roster that Critchlow hadn't drawn any of the strips in the run but fitted in for the finale just perfectly. Using a fourth artist makes sense of course, but the transition was smooth as ice and I think captured enough the essence of each strand to make this seamless (credit to the lettering job in this respect too). I really love Critchlow's Dredd in any case, but now I love his Low Life and Simping Detective too! Great stuff there Critchlow and Tharg? Get him in the prog more often!

I was just thinking the other day how the Cold Deck really took each element that has made Dredd/MC1 so appealing over the years to craft this: political maneuvering (Justice Department), the crazy city (Low Life) and the dark future it all really represents (Simping Detective). That plus the fan servicing makes it all work as a keenly felt love letter to Mega City One. On that point (right after the Jack etc), I was worried that the self referencing might have strained the whole thing a bit too much for me at times but it managed to stay on the right side of it.

One for the history books there Tharg. Ta!

M.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Proudhuff 04 December, 2012, 09:52:39 AM
Tiny pedant niggle: when Dredd catches that punch, she pulls back her right hand but he catches her left, petty I know... yes, yes I'm just a jealous, bitter and twisted, nit picking pedant
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Arkwright99 04 December, 2012, 05:45:12 PM
Rather pleased and delighted to find 1812 on sale - a day early - at my newsagents this morning. (It is Tuesday today, isn't it?) Terrific prog from cover to cover, sterling job by Carl Critchlow and kudos to Messers Ewing, Spurrier & Williams for pulling this issue off so superbly (also Messers Flint, Coleby & D'Isreali, without whom etc...). Extra oil rations all round!  :D
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 04 December, 2012, 06:23:03 PM
Slightly sad that Sensitive Klegg didn't look half as 'cute' as he did previously but that's Crtichlow's rendition for you.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Martin Howe 05 December, 2012, 11:13:52 AM
I have been too busy to visit the forum for some time, but have followed the strip - for the last few weeks everything has stopped on Sat. when the postman arrives  :D It's been a long, long time since I loved anything the way I loved this. 2000AD has been consistently good for a while now.

I will say, because I feel strongly about it, that I do wish Pat Mills would stop preaching and asking us to believe that War can ever be legislated away. That said, ABC was well done for what it was, the artwork outstanding, and the punchline "Thank you very much Mr President" was very funny.

On the subject of Dirty Frank, however:
Was Judge Smiley in that H-Wagon that picked up Dirty Frank when he can in from the cold?  ;)
That's my thinking of it.  So was that an early black ops mission ?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to have been thinking this over the last few years.

Even before we knew about Black Ops, it felt as if the images of Frank in the snow screamed "Extra-Judicial Operation". We have already seen Hershey willing to break the rules and so it wasn't hard to think she had a squad of goons loyal to the city who would assassinate presidents, destabilise economies and blow up boxes of puppies, if the need arose.

Plus we've seen Frank kick ass and improvise almost as well as Dredd at times; he is totally dedicated to the City above all other considerations; plus he wasn't above torturing and murdering a corrupt judge when he was temporarily back in Uniform. I've been thinking for some time that Frank must have originally been part of an covert squad long before being invalided into the Wally Squad.

Finally - the best bit for me:
"Chief Judge - respect the Office" - Hershey, holding a smoking gun, amongst a floor littered with dead black-ops creeps.

Wilshaw's line was almost as good: "Or what's left of it..." :D

Oh and it's nice to see Frank being addressed as Judge Frank, too :)

Well done to all concerned and here's hoping for "The Early Adventures of Black-Ops Judge Frank" someday :P


: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 05 December, 2012, 11:22:18 AM
Bloody Hell, that was a big of epic Prog in the years!

I can already guess the exact panels Goaty's going to be posting as soon as he gets his prog.  :D It's like a 'spot the ball' I like to play every week.

Oh gosh yeah! but I will do it tomorrow or Friday to be fair to let other people enjoy the Prog they get today...
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Banners 05 December, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
: Martin Howe
Well done to all concerned and here's hoping for "The Early Adventures of Black-Ops Judge Frank" someday :P

No doubt published by IDW.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 05 December, 2012, 12:11:58 PM
I KNEW IT! That Jack Point is THE COLD DECK to the readers!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: a chosen rider 05 December, 2012, 12:21:56 PM
Tough to review something this awesome without resorting to sounds and exclamation marks.  So, not so much a proper review as a scattering of random thoughts.

* Critchlow's art works well as a melding of styles, and some of those big splash panels of the godcity are amazing.  Props to Simon Bowland for the complicated lettering job tying all the strips together, too.

* Dirty Frank still gets all the best lines "Behold friendliness" cracked me up.  And "Dirty Frank embraces the collaborative spirit."  And of course.... "Justice."

* Interesting to hear Smiley referring to Dredd as 'Joseph', after discussion over use of that name in the IDW Dredd.  Smiley using it somehow conjures images of Dredd as a child clone, perhaps because it's the only time we've seen it used is on the clone tanks.  I don't really think Smiley's old enough to have known him back then, but it's hard to tell.

* The awkward encounter between Dredd and DeMarco is fun, though I'm greedy for more.  Also, continued first name terms from Dredd?  Ooh.  Still some feelings there...  I actually didn't mind the Point/DeMarco stuff in this issue, maybe because she seemed more like her old self than generic noir dame in what few panels she had.  I can definitely see this being a final wrap-up for Simping Detective, and I think it works pretty well that way.

* Fascinated to see where things go with Dredd and Hershey's relationship from here.  Plus I hope there's more of Smiley to come in both Low Life and Dredd.  More Maitland wouldn't go amiss, either.  (And more DeMarco, obviously, but I am entirely predictable on that front.)

Right, come on, 2013, let's see you go ahead and top that lot, then.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: oshii 05 December, 2012, 02:08:20 PM
Thought it was a nice touch that Dredd gave DeMarco an important task ahead of Point.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: a chosen rider 05 December, 2012, 03:23:23 PM
Thought it was a nice touch that Dredd gave DeMarco an important task ahead of Point.

Me too.  It's been a good fifteen years since she was kicked out of the Judges, but he automatically trusts her competence to handle it.  It's a neat touch in terms of his relationship with DeMarco, but it's also kind of interesting in the larger context of how Dredd's operating in this storyline: working with members of Wally squad and an off-the-books black ops guy, not seeking Hershey's approval even though she points out that he could have brought her in without Bachmann knowing... he's pretty much gone rogue and started acting on his own initiative instead of following procedures and chain of command.  Could be fascinating to see how his relationship with Justice Department develops from here.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 05 December, 2012, 03:38:22 PM
Sorry, cant help it!

I LOVE THIS IMAGE!!!


(http://i.imgur.com/EWPx7.png)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: dweezil2 05 December, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
Picked up the Prog this morning and read it in one sitting.
Utterly brilliant issue and together with Day Of Chaos, the brilliant Dredd movie and all the other superb strips in the Prog and the Meg, it really is an amazing time to be a 2000ad reader.
And there's still the end of year Prog to go!
Well done to all those who have been involved in Thrill-power creation and roll on 2013.
Right, of to read 1812 again.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 05 December, 2012, 04:05:03 PM
As a finale, I found this to be less than the sum of its parts, but still a welcome experiment in playing with the 2000ad format, especially as it will now become a headache for the trade collection people who have to think of how to put it all together as a book because of the positive word of mouth it's getting - TIME TO WORK FOR A LIVING YOU DESIGN SCHOOL SCUM - although it is deeply gratifying to me that those who rave about this can now no longer make fun of Marvel or DC crossover events without coming off as snobs and/or hypocrites.
I have some queries like: was the city in the ocean a deliberate visual reference to Independence Day?  or why do squads of assault judges carry spare hobo clothing?  Apart from that, only a couple of duff notes were in the fourth wall-breaking narration that took me out of the story twice, then again with the absolute clanger that was the Judgment Day reference that stopped the story dead for me, while the ultimate payoff being a fistfight with a supervillain felt a bit too much like a 90s superhero comic from Marvel UK.  I know Bachmann's plan was always going to end with a bullet in the head, but the escalating bodycount thing has been done so much already that even though we're told in the story that the Meg is in the poop because there's only twenty judges left in it or something, someone goes AH NO ANOTHER THOUSAND JUDGES ARE DEAD every week, and all I can think of is how inconsequential carnage is in a Dredd strip and you know he's going to be fine as usual even with a gut full of lead.  I liked that Bachmann and Dredd were both intractable to the point that one of them dying was the only way their conflict would be resolved, but when it actually happened it felt like an anticlimax, but is that because the ending was poor or because what preceded it was better?  The latter, I think.

All in all, an enjoyable romp.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 05 December, 2012, 04:46:14 PM
The prog wasnt in its usual place in ASDA's today. And for a terrible moment i thought it may have sold out, or been delayed. But safely in my hands now,  :thumbsup:

Its been a long week, glad it didnt turn out to be longer still..
Allowed myself a sneaky peek at the first couple of pages - wow!, but must resist until i can get to pour over it in comfort.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 05 December, 2012, 04:52:23 PM



BLOG Judge Dredd Writer Al Ewing on 2000AD’s Surprising Crossover (http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/12/05/blog-judge-dredd-writer-al-ewing-on-2000ads-surprising-crossover/)


In which Ewing discusses his plot to kill Dredd and replace him with Giant.


: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 05 December, 2012, 04:55:38 PM



BLOG Judge Dredd Writer Al Ewing on 2000AD’s Surprising Crossover (http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/12/05/blog-judge-dredd-writer-al-ewing-on-2000ads-surprising-crossover/)


In which Ewing discusses his plot to kill Dredd and replace him with Giant.
Bastard! Bastrad! BASTARD!
(http://spectacularopticalcorp.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/bastard.jpg)

 :lol:
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Andy Smart 05 December, 2012, 05:19:43 PM
Fantastic prog and a fantastic end to the story. Like others have mentioned before, the machinations from the previous stories were missing here since everything was now in the open so this was more of an action strip.

I like the meta-fictional nods in the captions of Judges Point and Frank. It's as if they're watching all this as a DVD and providing running commentary. I liked that Dredd didn't actually do a whole lot. Normally he's the only judge who can fix things and the others are useless. So it was nice to see Frank, Point and the supporting cast kicking arse. It also makes sense since he was terribly injured
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Alien Goodness 05 December, 2012, 05:23:36 PM
BLOG Judge Dredd Writer Al Ewing on 2000AD’s Surprising Crossover (http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/12/05/blog-judge-dredd-writer-al-ewing-on-2000ads-surprising-crossover/)

In which Ewing discusses his plot to kill Dredd and replace him with Giant.

Thanks for sharing this link - it was an informative interview
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: W. R. Logan 05 December, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
Really, that was it?
How many disasters, how many millions dead, how many halls of justice destroyed and  yet only now does a man in a secret room reveal himself.
I know over the weeks I've said I've not enjoyed this multi story and havent read many of the other parts outside of Dredd but honestly is this really what the board has been going crazy over.
Roll on Prog 2013 and then a few weeks before we get another Prg and can move on.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Alien Goodness 05 December, 2012, 05:53:06 PM
As for Prog 1812 - What. A. Prog.

I have to 'fess that there's a massive gap in my 2000AD knowledge (from around 1990-2010) but I think this is the best Dredd story I've ever read, coming on the back of the wonderful Day of Chaos. Cold Deck reminds of the Block Mania & Apocalypse War stories that profoundly impacted me all those years ago. I haven't read these stories for well over a quarter of a century, but I still remember the overall gist and can still visualise certain panels that were punched onto my memory circuits (such as Judge Giant's death). In 25 years time, I'm sure I'll still remember the gist of these three stories, and those jaw-dropping moments such as Prog 1807 and D'Israeli's cover last week.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Proudhuff 05 December, 2012, 05:56:19 PM
Really, that was it?
How many disasters, how many millions dead, how many halls of justice destroyed and  yet only now does a man in a secret room reveal himself.


He's been in the shadows, much like the other Smiley and his circus, he does say he's tweaked things along the way or something similar. Its like saying what were our sercet services doing to stop the various 'events' that have happen to us..  45 mins and all that.

(http://gallery.mailchimp.com/a6e40236aa24d482cfff600d2/images/week_7_teaser.png)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: W. R. Logan 05 December, 2012, 06:16:41 PM
He's been in the shadows, much like the other Smiley and his circus, he does say he's tweaked things along the way or something similar. Its like saying what were our sercet services doing to stop the various 'events' that have happen to us..  45 mins and all that.

You may not know what the secret services are doing but you know they exist.
Judge Smiley I could just about buy but a room next to the CJ's office is just bollocks.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Greg M. 05 December, 2012, 06:21:04 PM



BLOG Judge Dredd Writer Al Ewing on 2000AD’s Surprising Crossover (http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/12/05/blog-judge-dredd-writer-al-ewing-on-2000ads-surprising-crossover/)


In which Ewing discusses his plot to kill Dredd and replace him with Giant.

Ewing's love of Giant endears him to me enormously. I actually agree with his vision of Dredd post-Dredd, as it were.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 05 December, 2012, 06:33:44 PM
I thought that stretched credibility, too, but only because anyone who's ever been in a caravan knows what happens when someone has a big poo, and this guy spent twenty years in a pooey caravan without ever once having to open a window and then go for a walk?  That bit where he says to Hershey "Won't you come in?" would have ended with her sniffing the air and saying "No.  I'm good out here, thanks."

The logic does not hold water.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Fisticuffs 05 December, 2012, 06:36:11 PM
When a story features something the size of Luna 2 being constructed in secret, and then taking off and flying away, then a secret room next door to someones office is the least of my concerns. :p
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 05 December, 2012, 06:59:09 PM
I have never made a city on the moon and then flown it to Earth and invaded America, but I have taken a smelly shit in a caravan.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Aonghus 05 December, 2012, 07:12:46 PM
Didn't smiley say that he had plenty of ways in and out though? I imagine he has a special smelly shit room somewhere else. I'm picturing a mini-mole kingdom sprawling through the walls and floors of the Grand Hall, actually...
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: karl 05 December, 2012, 07:14:55 PM
I'll just leave this here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=42506
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dark Jimbo 05 December, 2012, 07:45:15 PM
...a room next to the CJ's office is just bollocks.

...this guy spent twenty years in a pooey caravan without ever once having to open a window and then go for a walk?

For a start, you guys do realise it's not a single room? It's implied he has several within the walls of Grand Hall - the door into Hershey's office is only one of many ways in and out. And who was supposed to have said he never left it? He interviewed Dredd and Frank in an entirely different room, for one thing - Dredd's seen leaving a ground-floor room with trees outside in the flashback. Not to mention that in Prog 1809's flashback he's on an H-wagon in Siberia.

In any case, it's explained in the story that the whole point of the character was as a failsafe 'to judge the judges who judge the judges' and to work 'in the background - behind the scenes. Make sure someone like Cal can never threaten this city again.' Why is it silly that he has a room next to the Chief Judge's office when his purpose for 20 years has been to keep an eye on the CJ?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Andy Smart 05 December, 2012, 07:54:27 PM
I thought Smiley working in the walls was a great touch. Maybe he had his rooms constructed the last time the Hall of Justice was destroyed. It reminded me of Varis from Game of Thrones.

Speaking of spies, does anyone think that the script was adjusted to include comments made on the board. I'm specifically thinking of Maitland's references to "Mr Biscuits" here. I know I've seen Ewing logged on here a few times recently.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: SmallBlueThing 05 December, 2012, 08:18:13 PM
Well, that was something wasnt it? Despite my whole family interrupting me at various points throughout- something they dont usually do- it held my interest nicely. As usual, the Dredd and Frank bits were better than the Simp bits (i find Simp quite hard to read at the best of times- and with Coleby on art this is the best of times for Simp) and im afraid i'll never love Carl Critchlow's artistry as much as Flint, Coleby or D'israeli so it was always going to be a step down in that respect. But aside from that- what a way to wrap up a fantastic year for Dredd specifically, and 2000AD in general. Yes, having Smiley in the walls was on the surface a bit silly- but that's the way of these things; audacious reveals you'd not guess in a million years that while not really hanging together convince you they do by sleight of hand. Best not to look too closely.

I'd be happy if this were the end of Jack Point and Demarco- that all seems so old now. Let's move on- new Dredds, Frank a regular in the main strip (cont)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: SmallBlueThing 05 December, 2012, 08:26:55 PM
(cont), Dredd and Hershey at each other's throats, the clean-up, exploration of the sunken lunar 2 (a whole epic or spin-off series right there, as they go looking for supplies and parts to help the dying Meg!)- let's just move forward now.

As for the rest of the prog... Um, oh yes- John Burns on SiniDex! That's magnificent. Can we please have SiniDex back for an extended period. If we cant have Kingdom, we should have Abnett in the prog in some form, and SiniDex is his other masterpiece. Lots of stories, lots of artists please Tharg. Including David Millgate, if he's game. A shame we didnt get letters this week, but hopefully some next week.

Dont honestly know how Prog 2013 can out-thrill 1812 or the expectation thereof- but i'll look forward to it trying.

SBT
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: vzzbux 05 December, 2012, 08:58:53 PM



BLOG Judge Dredd Writer Al Ewing on 2000AD’s Surprising Crossover (http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/12/05/blog-judge-dredd-writer-al-ewing-on-2000ads-surprising-crossover/)


In which Ewing discusses his plot to kill Dredd and replace him with Giant.
Personally I think this would be a bad idea to replace Dredd with Giant. When was Giant last in the prog?




V
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: W. R. Logan 05 December, 2012, 09:47:27 PM
Dont honestly know how Prog 2013 can out-thrill 1812 or the expectation thereof- but i'll look forward to it trying.

Easily, Prog 2013 wont have Cold Deck in it.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 05 December, 2012, 09:50:26 PM
Dont honestly know how Prog 2013 can out-thrill 1812 or the expectation thereof- but i'll look forward to it trying.

Easily, Prog 2013 wont have Cold Deck in it.
I don't like to put on accents but...Yo mad bro?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 05 December, 2012, 09:51:24 PM
For a start, you guys do realise it's not a single room?

I'm not saying he didn't have more than one room, I'm saying the smell of a big poo - especially one encouraged by the consumption of carb-rich biscuits and lots of tea - would get everywhere to the point you have to open windows on either side of the living area and pray the feng shui of the room(s) lead to the creation a sort of wind tunnel that pulls the smell outside.  Now, if the Chief Judge's office is on one side of this secret room, then an open window on the other side is going to blow the poo smell into it, which means that a succession of Chief Judges have said absolutely nothing about the stink of shit that comes out of nowhere when they're trying to work, and for me that stretches credibility far more than any invading moon city piloted by a shark.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 05 December, 2012, 09:59:56 PM
BLOG Judge Dredd Writer Al Ewing on 2000AD’s Surprising Crossover (http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/12/05/blog-judge-dredd-writer-al-ewing-on-2000ads-surprising-crossover/) In which Ewing discusses his plot to kill Dredd and replace him with Giant.

Personally I think this would be a bad idea to replace Dredd with Giant.


Preferable to replacing Dredd with another Fargo clone for the sake of it. You either use one of the many available options to keep Dredd going indefinitely (which I'm not in favour of) or make a virtue out of a necessity and embrace the fact that a different focal point for the strip means writers don't keep repeating the same beats which Wagner's been hitting expertly for three decades. As Ewing points out in that interview, even the I never knew my hero Daddy angle is given a new spin once the clone dynamic is replaced with Giant's conception from carnal desire.

I think it's important that Ewing cited the example of Taggart (i); you keep the name and don't directly replace the departed character, making a greater variety of stories and narrative voices possible as the supporting cast take turns as the reader's point of entry into the story. This solves at a stroke the problem that most writers can't really write Dredd himself, but - as recent strips have demonstrated - they have no trouble writing about MC1.

(i) I would say that though, I used the Taggart comparison myself earlier this year.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 05 December, 2012, 10:15:56 PM
No Judge Dredd, no Judge Dredd title. That is all.
Prog 1812 - still collating..
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: The Enigmatic Dr X 05 December, 2012, 10:23:13 PM
For I am lazy and have a short attention span...

could someone tell me what Frank saw in a blizzard?

Oh, and I agree with Logan. Did Smiley have to be in the walls? He could have been somewhere else (a mopad?)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 05 December, 2012, 10:23:25 PM
For a start, you guys do realise it's not a single room?

I'm not saying he didn't have more than one room, I'm saying the smell of a big poo - especially one encouraged by the consumption of carb-rich biscuits and lots of tea - would get everywhere to the point you have to open windows on either side of the living area and pray the feng shui of the room(s) lead to the creation a sort of wind tunnel that pulls the smell outside.  Now, if the Chief Judge's office is on one side of this secret room, then an open window on the other side is going to blow the poo smell into it, which means that a succession of Chief Judges have said absolutely nothing about the stink of shit that comes out of nowhere when they're trying to work, and for me that stretches credibility far more than any invading moon city piloted by a shark.


Extractor-Fan to outside building.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Grant Goggans 05 December, 2012, 10:24:59 PM
although it is deeply gratifying to me that those who rave about this can now no longer make fun of Marvel or DC crossover events without coming off as snobs and/or hypocrites.

The hell we can't.  The only inter-title superhero crossover in the last twenty years that's been worth a toss was DC One Million, and even there, more than a third of its crossover issues were utterly unnecessary, and the collected edition omitted the setup for the damn twist ending by leaving out the "Chronos" issue.  This made as much sense as an eventual "Cold Deck" collection leaving out "Bullet to King Four."

I'll grant you Avengers-Defenders War from the early '70s, which was awesome, but I've read far too many of these stupid funnybooks to be labeled a snob, and it's not hypocritical to note that superhero crossovers stink because they're driven by editorial fiat and the whims of far too many cooks in the kitchen and they require a massive investment from buyers to get all of the story, promising "nothing will be the same again" and never, ever delivering anything more than a cosmetic change that lasts as long as the next writer's whim.  That wasn't the case here.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 05 December, 2012, 10:28:06 PM


At least we didn't have to spend any more money for 10 times the thrills.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 05 December, 2012, 10:30:30 PM
No Judge Dredd, no Judge Dredd title. That is all.

I forgot to mention that Judge Giant is the coolest name for anything ever.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 05 December, 2012, 10:37:33 PM
Extractor-Fan to outside building.


With in-built sulphur filter.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Beaker 05 December, 2012, 10:39:29 PM
Utterly donkey-botheringly stunningly awesome!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: jannerboyuk 05 December, 2012, 10:40:48 PM
For a start, you guys do realise it's not a single room?

I'm not saying he didn't have more than one room, I'm saying the smell of a big poo - especially one encouraged by the consumption of carb-rich biscuits and lots of tea - would get everywhere to the point you have to open windows on either side of the living area and pray the feng shui of the room(s) lead to the creation a sort of wind tunnel that pulls the smell outside.  Now, if the Chief Judge's office is on one side of this secret room, then an open window on the other side is going to blow the poo smell into it, which means that a succession of Chief Judges have said absolutely nothing about the stink of shit that comes out of nowhere when they're trying to work, and for me that stretches credibility far more than any invading moon city piloted by a shark.


Extractor-Fan to outside building.
or maybe a toilet?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: jannerboyuk 05 December, 2012, 10:42:05 PM
Dont honestly know how Prog 2013 can out-thrill 1812 or the expectation thereof- but i'll look forward to it trying.

Easily, Prog 2013 wont have Cold Deck in it.
why do people keep calling it 2013 instead of 1813? What am I missing?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 05 December, 2012, 10:44:03 PM
Extractor-Fan to outside building.

With in-built sulphur filter.

All the answers are in the story. Those biscuits you see Smiley dunking are the charcoal biscuits you get to stop your dog's farts from stinking out the house.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 05 December, 2012, 10:47:53 PM
or maybe a toilet?


Toilets don't stop smells, they encourage them.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 05 December, 2012, 10:59:16 PM
No Judge Dredd?, no Judge Dredd title. That is all.

I forgot to mention that Judge Giant is the coolest name for anything ever.

Judge Giant is like Prince Charles. He'll be waiting forever to take the crown..

(http://i.imgur.com/B5DvE.jpg)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: vzzbux 05 December, 2012, 11:04:37 PM
They have the Megazine to do in depth character developments who are not Dredd.
Giant could flourish there.



V
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: M.I.K. 05 December, 2012, 11:13:43 PM
why do people keep calling it 2013 instead of 1813? What am I missing?

End of year progs are named for the year they lead into. Been that way for the past 13 years, (and no, nobody knows what the prog after prog 1999 will be called yet).



: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Steve Green 05 December, 2012, 11:15:45 PM
Dont honestly know how Prog 2013 can out-thrill 1812 or the expectation thereof- but i'll look forward to it trying.

Easily, Prog 2013 wont have Cold Deck in it.
why do people keep calling it 2013 instead of 1813? What am I missing?

Since (I guess) prog 2000 which was the end of year prog, they've been named after the upcoming year.

Anyway back to the smells...

With Logan's rotten arm, Roffman's new sphincter, and Dirty Frank I think Smiley could get away with lavatorial murder and not be noticed.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 05 December, 2012, 11:29:52 PM
why do people keep calling it 2013 instead of 1813? What am I missing?

End of year progs are named for the year they lead into. Been that way for the past 13 years, (and no, nobody knows what the prog after prog 1999 will be called yet).

... and those progs have basically taken the place of the old annuals. Think of next week's issue as the 2000ad annual 2013 without the cardboard cover and reprint material, but which retains that format's license to tell different kinds of one-off stories.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Steve Green 05 December, 2012, 11:35:41 PM
Now if only they could do something special for the summer as well...
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 05 December, 2012, 11:37:58 PM
With Logan's rotten arm, Roffman's new sphincter, and Dirty Frank I think Smiley could get away with lavatorial murder and not be noticed.

Those are recent developments - Smiley's been living in the walls for 20 years now.
And extractor fans won't cut it, as anyone who's been on a tour bus will tell you.  The first rule of Tour Bus is NO SOLIDS IN THE JIMMY.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 05 December, 2012, 11:58:01 PM
And extractor fans won't cut it, as anyone who's been on a tour bus will tell you.  The first rule of Tour Bus is NO SOLIDS IN THE JIMMY.


If there's only one person in the tour bus, who's to know?

Anyway, I reckon Smiley's the type who shits in plastic bags that go down the waste disposal chute.


He's doing it now,

(http://alexdonald.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/453px-alan_bennett_allan_warren.jpg)

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 06 December, 2012, 12:15:47 AM
Just noticed a nice bit of boot knife action from Dredd on page six. Down, but never out.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 06 December, 2012, 12:19:33 AM
He's doing it now,

A Private Function?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: jannerboyuk 06 December, 2012, 12:19:58 AM
why do people keep calling it 2013 instead of 1813? What am I missing?

End of year progs are named for the year they lead into. Been that way for the past 13 years, (and no, nobody knows what the prog after prog 1999 will be called yet).
ta for that
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Daveycandlish 06 December, 2012, 07:26:27 AM
Trifecta? Perfecta!

Brilliant finale - and great to see the Critchlow droid has been recommissioned.

Can't wait for the 2013 prog!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 06 December, 2012, 08:44:29 AM
I have a few art quibles:
Maitland is initialy dipicted as having the general left shoulder pad of a Judge, then the one with the % sign later.
Jack Point is holding his left jaw where his tooth has previously been painful in one panel, but after his flashback he is holding his right jaw.
Bachmann goes to hit Dredd with her right hand but he catches her left hand. That last one's just sloppy.

Bar humbug I say! Critchlow can draw anything and make it look awsome, even Clown's and Aliens vs. Ninja's! Love his depiction of Larf. let's see him draw Raptour's again!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dandontdare 06 December, 2012, 09:01:56 AM
Still no prog. A strongly worded letter to Royal mail is on the cards, as Prog delivery day is just totally random these days.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mikey 06 December, 2012, 09:10:47 AM
All this talk of Smiley's toilet time causing a stink is easily explained by employment of stealth tactics he must have developed.

He's head of 'Black Plops' Division.

M
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Colin YNWA 06 December, 2012, 09:15:48 AM
I'll just leave this here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=42506

Don't forget folks if you get the chance pop over and leave a comment after Karl's brilliant interview. He's doing sterling working over at CBR pushing 2000ad and we need to be backing him up and leaving comments, as this is apparently how they judge the worth of an article in terms of popularity and therefore the value of running more of the same. 
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Colin YNWA 06 December, 2012, 09:32:56 AM
although it is deeply gratifying to me that those who rave about this can now no longer make fun of Marvel or DC crossover events without coming off as snobs and/or hypocrites.

The hell we can't.  The only inter-title superhero crossover in the last twenty years that's been worth a toss was DC One Million, and even there, more than a third of its crossover issues were utterly unnecessary, and the collected edition omitted the setup for the damn twist ending by leaving out the "Chronos" issue.  This made as much sense as an eventual "Cold Deck" collection leaving out "Bullet to King Four."...


Yeah what absolute nonsense (the original point not Grant's response which was spot on in the main). I'm not either for or against big cross-overs, some I enjoy, so I don't. The point being that this has been done in an entirely different way to the US one's generally are. It was self contained, it was all in one comic, it was done for genuine story reasons.

Often an American comic cross-over seems to have a fine central premise, BUT from then writers are asked if they can use that in their regular books, or what story ideas they can come up with for the characters they have charge over that would add to the central idea, to expand upon it. Some of those ideas will be good and work, some won't. All dilute the central story and often leave the plot so bloated that the central title cross-over series (so say Blackest Knight or Secret Wars II) having to touch so many points covered elsewhere as to lose a lot of its purpose and become a summary of other things happening, rather than being able to concentrate on the story it was originally meant to tell.

Trifecta (is that what we're meant to be calling the whole of this story?) has been focused and told a single story, from three perspectives and stayed very tight and lean. To find difference between that and the large American cross-overs and therefore make a judgement based on those differences does not make someone either a 'snob / hypocrite', just a person able to read, evaluate and judge the specifics of this case in contrast to the others.

Grant's mistake of course is no realising that Final Crisis is the greatest of the recent cross-overs and that Avengers vs. Defenders is a bit poo. I'll forgive him that though.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Krakajac 06 December, 2012, 09:38:33 AM
"Personally I think this would be a bad idea to replace Dredd with Giant."

Agreed.  Ewing is a fantastic writer and heir-to-the-throne in my book, but I wouldn't want to see Judge Giant become the focus - week after week in 2000AD.  Giant's a solid 'human' character, with a nice back-story, but ultimately, he's not that much different than the other supporting characters that have surrounded Dredd over the years - including the original Judge Giant. 

Half the fun with Dredd (and by extension, clones like Rico) is not knowing what they're thinking about.  To me, Dredd (and the way his mind works) is still a mystery after 35 years.  When he does 'open up' (like he did in Day of Chaos), it makes it all the more special.

I see Rico as the perfect replacement for Dredd - and I hope 2000AD go down this path.  I love the way that Wagner has fleshed out Rico over the years - it's been quite subtle at times.  He has the same work ethic as Dredd, but seems just a bit more 'laid back' - one could say even 'cheerful' at times.  He even displays a willingness to keep in touch with Vienna, etc. which is a nice touch.  If Rico was to take on Dredds' mantle down the track, it would be interesting to see if he kept this slightly 'positive' disposition - or slowly transformed into 'ol Stony face' over time.

The other thing you have with 'Dredd' clones is the spectre of them 'going bad' in the same way Kraken did, etc.  You don't really have that with Giant.

Getting back to Prog 1812 - an outstanding read.  A bonkers story plot-wise, but dramatic, thrilling and funny all in one hit.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Andy Smart 06 December, 2012, 09:46:50 AM
I haven't read a crossover since Mark Millar's Civil War and I bowed out after Black Goliath was killed by Thor's robot clone. I haven't bought an issue of a Marvel comic since and reading commentary on Avengers vs X-Men completely validates that decision.

One of the big factors separating this story from that sort of crossover is the secrecy. You wouldn't get that in a Marvel crossover since the whole point of them is as a marketing gimmick.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Richmond Clements 06 December, 2012, 09:58:20 AM
All this talk of Smiley's toilet time causing a stink is easily explained by employment of stealth tactics he must have developed.

He's head of 'Black Plops' Division.

M
Jesus...
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Greg M. 06 December, 2012, 10:11:10 AM
"Personally I think this would be a bad idea to replace Dredd with Giant."

Agreed.  Ewing is a fantastic writer and heir-to-the-throne in my book, but I wouldn't want to see Judge Giant become the focus - week after week in 2000AD.  Giant's a solid 'human' character, with a nice back-story, but ultimately, he's not that much different than the other supporting characters that have surrounded Dredd over the years - including the original Judge Giant. 

I personally think Giant is very different from the rest of Dredd’s supporting cast, but I am completely biased – since he first appeared, he swiftly became my favourite character in the series. What’s interesting about Giant is that we’ve followed him through pretty much his entire life and seen him change from an angry, vengeful youth, into someone who, under Dredd’s guidance, becomes the prodigy of the Justice Department. Rico might carry Dredd’s genetic legacy, but to me, Giant is Dredd’s true successor, because he’s the one who Dredd shaped, turned away from a very negative path and moulded into potentially the finest judge in MC-1. (He may not have been portrayed that way for a while, I dunno, but that’s very much the direction he was headed in.) In an era when we’ve seen Dredd realise how futile so much of what he’s done for the city has been, Judge Giant is one of his greatest successes.

As for Rico,  - he's already been ‘young Stony Face’ – in his earliest appearances, he was portrayed as an uptight, letter-of-the-law, by-the-book type who contrasted with the older, more human Dredd - was possibly even more obnoxious than young Dredd. The idea of Rico as the ‘cheerful’ one is something I’ve never quite got my head around, mostly because the character development happened when I wasn’t reading the prog.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: sheldipez 06 December, 2012, 10:26:48 AM
Read this last night in bed (as per the norm) giggling like a school girl for pretty much every single one of Frank's lines. I think we all know who really should take over Dredd....  ;)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Krakajac 06 December, 2012, 11:05:21 AM
"The idea of Rico as the ‘cheerful’ one is something I’ve never quite got my head around"

My bad.  It was the only description I could come up with at the time - probably not quite what I was aiming for.  :)

To me, Rico seems comfortable with the fact that he's living in his 'own' shadow and can't possibly compete with Dredd - at least for the time being.  I don't know - I've always found the 'Rico' stories very compelling for this reason.

Saying that, I've got no problem with an on-going 'Judge Giant' strip - as long as that's what it's called.  I'm not a fan of the 'Taggart' option.  Dredd's legacy should be his and his only.  If the art/story-telling on a 'Giant' series is above par - it shouldn't need the 'Judge Dredd' moniker to be successful.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 06 December, 2012, 11:22:45 AM
"Personally I think this would be a bad idea to replace Dredd with Giant." The other thing you have with 'Dredd' clones is the spectre of them 'going bad' in the same way Kraken did, etc.  You don't really have that with Giant.

Any series in which the dramatic lead was shared between characters would still have Rico, Dolman and the dramatic possibilities they entail. In a strip which didn't have Rico (or any other character) as its sole narrative focus there would actually be some dramatic tension as to whether said characters were going the way of Rico, or whether they were going to be killed. Reaction to Dredd's mortal wounding last week illustrates that the readership's split between "gosh, they're going to kill Dredd!" and "they'll never kill Dredd" whenever these situations arise.

Using different characters as the narrative focus would also allow different kinds of stories to be told, without trying to shoehorn the brilliantly rigid Dredd into every narrative. Using Rob Williams as an example; his recent Asleep story (1804-5) read well enough, without ever feeling like it needed Dredd at the centre of it. Imagine if Williams had tried to write the fun and imaginative Saudade as a Dredd story - I think it would have lost a lot of its charm without the freedom Williams enjoys with Frank's character, and shoehorning Dredd into that story would probably have made it read more like Condo (319-321).

Beeny, Rico, Dolman, Maitland, Logan, Roffman, Giant (and whoever else turns out to have survived Chaos Day) are pliable enough to offer the opportunity for writers and artists to tell the kind of stories which best fit their strengths within the body of the central MC1 strip, which becomes a kind of anthology strip within an anthology title. That's how I understood Ewing's comments regarding both Giant and Taggart; if the big epics need a strong central figure to give them a through-line and to provide the strip with the sense of an ongoing narrative , he fits the bill, but he doesn't dominate things and restrict the tone of stories in the way a baby Dredd might.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Proudhuff 06 December, 2012, 11:25:07 AM
Just noticed a nice bit of boot knife action from Dredd on page six. Down, but never out.

That made me smile, no song no dance not even BOOT KNIFE!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: NapalmKev 06 December, 2012, 11:53:36 AM
Amazing ending to an absolutely quality storyline(s)!

Cheers
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 06 December, 2012, 11:54:27 AM
although it is deeply gratifying to me that those who rave about this can now no longer make fun of Marvel or DC crossover events without coming off as snobs and/or hypocrites.

The hell we can't.  The only inter-title superhero crossover in the last twenty years that's been worth a toss was DC One Million, and even there, more than a third of its crossover issues were utterly unnecessary, and the collected edition omitted the setup for the damn twist ending by leaving out the "Chronos" issue.  This made as much sense as an eventual "Cold Deck" collection leaving out "Bullet to King Four."...


Yeah what absolute nonsense (the original point not Grant's response which was spot on in the main). I'm not either for or against big cross-overs, some I enjoy, so I don't. The point being that this has been done in an entirely different way to the US one's generally are. It was self contained, it was all in one comic, it was done for genuine story reasons.

The snobbery and hypocrisy of these statements sicken me.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Molch-R 06 December, 2012, 12:10:29 PM
although it is deeply gratifying to me that those who rave about this can now no longer make fun of Marvel or DC crossover events without coming off as snobs and/or hypocrites.

The hell we can't.  The only inter-title superhero crossover in the last twenty years that's been worth a toss was DC One Million, and even there, more than a third of its crossover issues were utterly unnecessary, and the collected edition omitted the setup for the damn twist ending by leaving out the "Chronos" issue.  This made as much sense as an eventual "Cold Deck" collection leaving out "Bullet to King Four."...


Yeah what absolute nonsense (the original point not Grant's response which was spot on in the main). I'm not either for or against big cross-overs, some I enjoy, so I don't. The point being that this has been done in an entirely different way to the US one's generally are. It was self contained, it was all in one comic, it was done for genuine story reasons.

The snobbery and hypocrisy of these statements sicken me.

And this particular conversation is getting out of hand. It ends now, thank you.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 06 December, 2012, 12:34:52 PM
Those comments do not actually sicken me, Michael.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Molch-R 06 December, 2012, 12:45:08 PM
Those comments do not actually sicken me, Michael.

Regardless, I'd like the conversation to move on, please.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 06 December, 2012, 12:56:55 PM
Just noticed a nice bit of boot knife action from Dredd on page six. Down, but never out.

That made me smile, no song no dance not even BOOT KNIFE!

Love that!
(http://i.imgur.com/KrvEX.png)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Taryn Tailz 06 December, 2012, 07:22:27 PM
A day at Edinburgh Christmas Fair followed by reading the Prog on the train home made for a brilliant day. :D

Absolutly fantastic prog with so many highlights, but if I had to chose one moment as my favourite it would be the panel with all the main characters and Point saying:

"...who inna Hells gonna mess with us?"

Quite possibly the best prog ever, bringing to a close quite possibly the best story to ever appear in 2000ad.

A huge thank you to all involved.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Tiplodocus 06 December, 2012, 09:20:27 PM
Overall it gets a thumbs up from me.

Which is not to say it didn't have huge bits that I found illogical and unbelievable. The whole counter plan from Smiley relied far too much on sheer chance.

Dirty Frank managing to catchup with a spacecraft? And then just happening to be near the same part of the city sized spacecraft that Sympathetic Clegg was? Relying on a regularly selfish character to come good in the end? And have enough friends left over from the chaos virus to make a difference? Try and blow up a city directly above our heads?

So many holes in the plot.

Butvi let it slide because of the sheer joy of the ride, the scale, the chutzpah, the art and some cracking dialogue.

Now imagine if you had all that and a plot that made sense.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Fisticuffs 06 December, 2012, 10:13:05 PM
Dirty Frank managing to catchup with a spacecraft? And then just happening to be near the same part of the city sized spacecraft that Sympathetic Clegg was? Try and blow up a city directly above our heads?

Dirty Frank was supposed to be nice and cushty in the board room of Luna 2, not floating through space in his underwear, ready to take over Luna 2 and blow it up/disable it when the command came (presumably away from MC1). It was never Smiley's plan to have Frank placed in such precarious situations, its only having his cover blown that caused that.

How do we know Sensitive Clegg was right by that particular airlock? The intercom system presumably covers the entirety of Luna 2, many others may have heard Frank calling for help, but sensitive Clegg was the only one that responded.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Bat King 06 December, 2012, 10:35:00 PM
I now need to re-read the whole thing... and I seem to have misplaced Progs!!!!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 06 December, 2012, 10:55:24 PM
On first reading i felt a bit letdown by it all.
Not because of the suspenion of disbelief required in places, but because it wrapped up so neatly. After such a delicious build up, a quick fire-fight and the bad guys/gal are dead, and everybody lives happily ever after...


Perhaps endings always disapoint to a degree, or maybe my thrill sensors are just frazzled by the weeks long thrill-overload thats been second to none.

But.....

So much to love as well, in this prog. A wonderful symmetry to it all. Brilliant stand out moments, far too many to list here, coming thick and fast - but fave little bit? the barely visible boot knife action from Dredd. Makes me smile that, and viewed as a whole what a glorious ride its been these weeks, and this is the story thats brought the superb Dirty Frank to my attention. Thank you!
A joy to be buying the prog at the moment. So huge congratulations to ALL involved in this. Ladies, Gentlemen -  i salute you.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: maryanddavid 07 December, 2012, 12:41:53 AM
Same as that Jack, well done all round. This is a widescreen hollywood Dredd, plot holes and all, classic.
What I like most about it is the obvious care that has gone into the crossover, the drive is to make a story not money. Brilliant. Best non-Wagner Dredd?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: dweezil2 07 December, 2012, 01:40:42 AM
I demand more from sensitive Klegg!

Hell! Give him a spin-off series if necessary, he was a fantastic character; endearing and funny in equal measures.
Made me pine for Tweak too.  :'(
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JayzusB.Christ 07 December, 2012, 08:44:13 AM
Hadn't bought the prog in a while due to post-travel poverty and discombobulation; but seeing what had happened (and recovering some of my financial losses) in the meantime I bought a glut of digi-progs and read them all in a night.  Fuckinell, 2000ad is still the best comic there is; it really is.
Current Tharg may well be the best Tharg ever - this is comics editing at its best.  A 28-page story with a point (don't say it), rather than just a novelty-value factor.  Also, it's heartening to know now for a fact that we have a new wave of creative droid legends.
Well done, all.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 07 December, 2012, 09:02:38 AM
It comes after the Jack!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dandontdare 07 December, 2012, 09:39:35 AM
Judge Smiley looks just like Alan Bennett.
Heh, yeah, as soon as I noticed that i had to imagine all the dialogue in his voice - it works in a weird way!

An exhilarating wrap up to one of the story events of the year.. decade .. EVER! Yes, there were a few plot holes and implausibilities, but I don't care. So many good lines .. "Not for me Maitland, for the law" and "Dirty Frank's internal monologue" were among my favourites.

Well done to all concerned, I can't remember anticipating my prog's arrival so much since Artie Gruber was about to set fire to Giant!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Richmond Clements 07 December, 2012, 09:42:46 AM
It's a measure of just how good this was, and the supreme confidence of the writers, that they went for and got away with "Who the hell's going to mess with us?"
Sublime stuff.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Spikes 07 December, 2012, 10:39:02 AM
the supreme confidence of the writers, that they went for and got away with "Who the hell's going to mess with us?"

Yep, it would be a harsh soul that couldnt forgive its inclusion, though it is cheese of the highest proportion!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 07 December, 2012, 10:45:17 AM
Yep! But I prefer it with Dredd and Alpha!

(http://i.imgur.com/c5Qhy.png)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 07 December, 2012, 10:58:25 AM
Nah, the Dredd/ Hershey/ Point/ Frank/ Maitland is slightly more sensible and Judgement Day didn't have Dirty frank screaming "SAVE THE CHIEF JUDGE IN AN OVERLY MACHO MANNER!" :lol:
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: James Stacey 07 December, 2012, 11:08:30 AM
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription and just wait for Goatys edited highlights  :lol:
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Richmond Clements 07 December, 2012, 11:12:19 AM
Nah, the Dredd/ Hershey/ Point/ Frank/ Maitland is slightly more sensible and Judgement Day didn't have Dirty frank screaming "SAVE THE CHIEF JUDGE IN AN OVERLY MACHO MANNER!" :lol:
That, and pretty much everything else that comes from Frank's mouth, was a genuine LOL.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 07 December, 2012, 11:16:15 AM
Nah...

Dredd!
Alpha!
Ezquerra!


(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/85474/1853258-sd3.jpg)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Proudhuff 07 December, 2012, 12:45:30 PM

(http://i.imgur.com/c5Qhy.png)

I just wish Carl's Dredd carrried a bit more umph! and less Joey Ramone
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dodsy 07 December, 2012, 12:56:40 PM
Quick Question: Was Judge Smiley a "new" character? Or is he somebody that has gotten lost in continuity that the writers have brought back?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: IndigoPrime 07 December, 2012, 12:57:59 PM
He's new, hence the amusing nods of "not in the official history".
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Goaty 07 December, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
Quick Question: Was Judge Smiley a "new" character? Or is he somebody that has gotten lost in continuity that the writers have brought back?

He maybe be the one that in background in Simping Detective?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Pioneer 07 December, 2012, 01:12:09 PM
Quick Question: Was Judge Smiley a "new" character? Or is he somebody that has gotten lost in continuity that the writers have brought back?

He maybe be the one that in background in Simping Detective?

Interesting question that one, as I think Saudade is the first time he actually appeared, but it apparently shows him on board the H-Wagon that picked up Frank from the blizzard in Low Life: Creation, and shows him in a 'black ops'  capacity offering Frank a job in the Wally Squad.

Whether or not Rob Williams intended for him to be a part of Franks continuity back when he wrote Creation, or whether he saw Saudade as an opportunity to link him in to it all? Maybe one for Twitter if he's on there??
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 07 December, 2012, 01:13:03 PM
Quick Question: Was Judge Smiley a "new" character? Or is he somebody that has gotten lost in continuity that the writers have brought back?

He maybe be the one that in background in Simping Detective?
That. And I wouldn't be surprised if his hand's have been seen in one of the many flashback's to Franks past in Low Life. Does this make Smiley property of Spurrier, Williams or Ewing?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Jim_Campbell 07 December, 2012, 01:18:46 PM
and everybody lives happily ever after...

Are you complaining because Saudade was painless? I'd argue it brought on many changes…

Cheers!

Jim
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Andy Smart 07 December, 2012, 01:40:15 PM
and everybody lives happily ever after...

Are you complaining because Saudade was painless? I'd argue it brought on many changes…

Cheers!

Jim

And I can take or leave it if I please.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: James Stacey 07 December, 2012, 01:44:47 PM
Quick Question: Was Judge Smiley a "new" character? Or is he somebody that has gotten lost in continuity that the writers have brought back?

He maybe be the one that in background in Simping Detective?
That. And I wouldn't be surprised if his hand's have been seen in one of the many flashback's to Franks past in Low Life. Does this make Smiley property of Spurrier, Williams or Ewing?

Hopefully no one persons property. The Wagner / Grant character carve up has led to no Anderson in recent continuity which is a shame.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: I, Cosh 07 December, 2012, 03:12:11 PM
Good effort Jim.

For once I'll actually be interested to read the script droids talking about the process of putting all this together. My reading of it is that Smiley is a new character retroactively fitted into the gaps in the other stories. Dirty Frank's origin in The Deal is probably recent enough for this to have been in the pipeline at the time. However, it feels like a bit of a swansong for Simping Detective with the peremptory death of Davies and resolution of the DeMarco thing so they probably just slipped Smiley in where somebody else may have been.

Out of interest I tried to reread Trifecta as individual story strands. It just about made sense.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: The Sherman Kid 07 December, 2012, 03:13:12 PM
Congradulations all round to those involved on this very surprising and very pleasing mini-epic.Clever stuff.

My only gripes (and they are small) would be ,as others have said, the 'Smiley room next door' and Dredd 'too miraculous' recovery.Other than that it was superbly done.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 07 December, 2012, 04:06:34 PM
the supreme confidence of the writers, that they went for and got away with "Who the hell's going to mess with us?"

Yep, it would be a harsh soul that couldnt forgive its inclusion, though it is cheese of the highest proportion!

It broke the story for me mainly because it wasn't the first such Ennis-cribbing I'd seen in Dredd*, and had the exact same impact as it would have had if the character had said "let's rock and roll" or "let's finish this", but even contextually it was unjustified as the characters had only survived that far by what seemed like luck rather than Alpha/Dredd levels of badassery.  It might have been meant to be sarcasm, though - I'll cede I might be reading the comic wrong.

* That Avengers parody that ended with an almost verbatim quote from the end of Ennis' The Pro, for instance.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Jim_Campbell 07 December, 2012, 04:23:32 PM
It might have been meant to be sarcasm, though - I'll cede I might be reading the comic wrong.

Given that it's delivered by a guy with a clown nose and giant shoes, then immediately undercut by Frank, I think it's supposed to highlight the distinct lack of bad-assery…

Cheers

Jim
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 07 December, 2012, 05:09:43 PM
I demand more from sensitive Klegg! Hell! Give him a spin-off series if necessary, he was a fantastic character; endearing and funny in equal measures.

He was a story highlight for me, along with Enormo Overdrive. Two instantly enjoyable characters like those can't be sent to Mek-Quake just because one of them's had a bullet through the (shark's) head. If ever a character embodied The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living (http://timheinthinks.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/image-2.jpg) it's Enormo, and I can imagine how a gallery opening by some future equivalent of Damien Hirst could be spoiled by a freshly marinated Overdive dramatically demonstrating exactly that sophomoric philosphical construct.

You'd have to title any story where Overdrive did a Mean Angel Maximum Overdrive, and the just when you thought it was safe to go back in the boardroom (http://livewithfilm.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/jaws2_poster.jpg) straplines write themselves.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 07 December, 2012, 05:22:31 PM
It might have been meant to be sarcasm, though - I'll cede I might be reading the comic wrong.

Given that it's delivered by a guy with a clown nose and giant shoes, then immediately undercut by Frank, I think it's supposed to highlight the distinct lack of bad-assery…

Cheers

Jim

And yet neither of can actually tell one way or the other even now.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: opaque 07 December, 2012, 10:48:34 PM
I thought it was great, theres a few issues, but not Smiley, not any of the 'what if's' that totally rely on Point or Frank to have survived all the other things they have been doing (and could have easily been lost in as the plan was set up many years ago) but mainly Luna 2 being basically dumped in the Black Atlantic, surely landing it ON the city might have been an option, even in the cursed earth, but I guess that can be answered/utilised at some point.
No my biggest issue was the artwork. I like his work, but it was totally the wrong artist to finish on, gave it a very dodgy and well, non serious sharp look in my mind.

It's where we go from here that is the interesting point and it'll be interesting to see how it gets included. We can't have another major thing never being mentioned again can we?

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mabs 07 December, 2012, 10:52:36 PM
Wow. Thats the first thing which i uttered when i opened the pages of Trifecta and my eyes fell upon Carl Critchlow's magnificent artwork especially the two page spread of the Godcity in the begining. Absolutely superb.

I'll be honest, it took me a good few prog's before i really got into the Cold Deck/ Lowlife/ Simping storylines but once i did, i thoroughly enjoyed reading them especially the first two. And now we come to this terrific issue with all three storylines coming to a head. And what can i say, its been a joy to read. My favourite moments has to be Dirty Frank's hilarious escapades. Theres a small moment Frank tells the Judges to rescue Sensitive Klegg from the Godcity and it damn near melted my heart :D, i hope we get to see Sensitive Klegg again. Really gutted to see 'Barry Penge Sharkface' getting his comeuppance but not before uttering one of the funniest threats i've had the pleasure of reading in the prog's thus far! All in all it was a great finish. Few quibbles which has already been mentioned by others, but these do not detract from the enjoyment.

Its not the absolute best Dredd i've read, but its definitely one of the best.

Hats off to everyone involved. Really really looking forward to Prog 2013!

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: SuperSurfer 08 December, 2012, 12:22:54 AM
What a way to finish my week. Picked up my prog on way home (the last copy in the thrill merchant I should add). Read the whole prog then most of this thread.

Didn't realise Trifecta is a real word. 

     a type of bet, especially on horse races, in which the bettor must select the first three finishers...

A great big bang cinematic finale. Really like the way it started with little hints that barely registered (with me anyway) such as recurring images in the different storylines ie flying ducks and then it clicked into place with Dredd kicking down a door. Brilliant. 

This  gave me what I waa longing for: longer stories rather than the usual short episodes - where writers can explore different pacing and have the lead characters pop in and out of the storyline. 

Great exploration of the medium. 

Collectors edition: three volumes in a slip case? In my dreams. Er, with floppy finale. 

2000AD again shows them how it's done.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: COMMANDO FORCES 08 December, 2012, 12:58:34 AM
Collectors edition: three volumes in a slip case? In my dreams. Er, with floppy finale.

Spooky! Were you hiding in my house when I was on Skype earlier :o
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: MercZ 08 December, 2012, 05:50:49 AM
Everyone else has been saying it, but hell I can add to it- great issue! That being said, I was scratching my head seeing that Smiley's been living in a secret room beside the Chief Justice's office. But I guess it is excusable considering Smiley was a character introduced for the purposes of this arc

It came together well regardless. I will look for this when it gets to a collected edition one day along with Day of Chaos.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: zombemybabynow 08 December, 2012, 08:41:53 AM
Fucking brilliant and critchlow too boot!  Wow
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 08 December, 2012, 09:06:36 AM
He's doing it now,

A Private Function?

Post of the Week.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Steve Green 08 December, 2012, 09:32:16 AM
Enjoyed it on the whole, but on reflection preferred the lead-ups and not entirely sure that Frank and Jack didn't overwhelm the style of the Cold Deck buildup when they actually were in the Dredd strip proper.

For me, the cameos, coincidences, Dredd's near invulnerability and one liners did have a feel of a RTD Dr Who finale, where the crowd pleasing moments took priority over it standing up to too much scrutiny.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 08 December, 2012, 10:28:32 AM
Collectors edition: three volumes in a slip case? In my dreams. Er, with floppy finale.

Spooky! Were you hiding in my house when I was on Skype earlier :o

He's always been hiding behind a secret panel in your walls, through Judgement Day and through Doomsday, working in the background to make sure something like Lawman of the Future can't happen to your collection ever again.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Zarjazzer 08 December, 2012, 11:26:29 AM
An amazing prog.  :o Just inspired on all levels. The big two look like navel gazing back slappers in a cul-de-sac by comparison. yes a huge city going in to an ocean is probably going to have much more dire effects but I blissfully ignored all this being swept along by the story and art.

Aliens and clowns vs ninjas. Cool. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: gufnork 08 December, 2012, 04:40:27 PM
So, after suffering all I could take of that awful 'Brass Sun' and the almost as bad 'Grey Area' and being a more-or-less new reader to the prog(discounting the odd prog here and there in the '80's) I decided to bug out for a while and come back at some random point a little later and see if things had improved. This is the prog I was lucky enough to pick up. I won't pretend to understand everything or everyone in this prog but it is worlds away from the disappointing stuff back in prog 1800. I really liked the different characters all being merged into one storyline and clown-detective guy really hit the spot and reminded me that I should never shun the prog completely because even though it throws up(literally...?) some real sub-par stuff from time to time(see first sentence), it then comes back numerous progs down the line at some seemingly random point in time and for some seemingly random reason with a wonderous, shiny little nougat like this. If only it could be consistant in this type of brilliance I could see myself buying regularly. But I know from the stinging disappointment that was prog 1800 that that is not going to happen so I shall forever be one of the also rans I'm afraid, simply dipping my toe into the waters from time to time in the hope that I've hit upon one of the good weeks. I did this week. It was extremely enjoyable and almost makes me want to get that big fat special next week(is it next week?) but then again I'm afraid I'll open the prog only to see 'Brass Sun' or 'Grey Area' staring back at me, and I'm really not sure I could take any more of that.

Anyway, well done to all concerned for this prog. Very good indeed. Shame it can't be every week though...!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: SuperSurfer 08 December, 2012, 05:37:21 PM
Collectors edition: three volumes in a slip case? In my dreams. Er, with floppy finale.
Spooky! Were you hiding in my house when I was on Skype earlier :o
He's always been hiding behind a secret panel in your walls, through Judgement Day and through Doomsday, working in the background to make sure something like Lawman of the Future can't happen to your collection ever again.
Yeah. And plenty of biscuits left over.

As for the slip case edition: saudade.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 08 December, 2012, 06:02:54 PM
...a wonderous, shiny little nougat like this.

You're making me hungry.

Interesting perspective there, gufnork.  It does seem like your prefer a coherent blast of something over the buffet of the anthology format.  I suppose accepting that sometimes 2/5 of the comic (or 4.5/5 if you're Logan...) may not be to your tastes can be a bit of a struggle.

For myself, while I salute the masterful balancing act that is Trifecta (which on re-reading somehow manages to infuse inherently fannish set-pieces with real depth and excitement), I couldn't be havingit every week.  Despite the dense, lucious read that 1812 was, I turned the last page wishing there could have been something else for dessert. 
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Alien Goodness 08 December, 2012, 06:42:57 PM
Didn't realise Trifecta is a real word.

     a type of bet, especially on horse races, in which the bettor must select the first three finishers...

I didn't know that either. Thanks for the info. I love learning some new bit of (fairly useless) information!  :thumbsup:
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mattofthespurs 08 December, 2012, 06:59:49 PM
Didn't realise Trifecta is a real word.

     a type of bet, especially on horse races, in which the bettor must select the first three finishers...

I didn't know that either. Thanks for the info. I love learning some new bit of (fairly useless) information!  :thumbsup:

As someone who is a betting man I did know this word, much to my chagrin.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Alien Goodness 08 December, 2012, 07:01:50 PM
Didn't realise Trifecta is a real word.
     a type of bet, especially on horse races, in which the bettor must select the first three finishers...
I didn't know that either. Thanks for the info. I love learning some new bit of (fairly useless) information!  :thumbsup:

As someone who is a betting man I did know this word, much to my chagrin.
Have you have successfully placed a trifecta bet?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mattofthespurs 08 December, 2012, 07:14:58 PM
Only once in about 30 times of trying.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 08 December, 2012, 07:22:02 PM
Only once in about 30 times of trying.

Maybe you need to spend more money trying more often, Matt.
: Re: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: gufnork 08 December, 2012, 07:26:29 PM
It wasn't so much that I don't like the anthology format as the fact that I think I was taken in by all the promises of prog 1800 being the prog for new readers to jump on and it was going to be all sugar and spice and stuff for us virtual-virgins but then... They gave me 'Brass soding Sun' and 'Grey Area'. I mean, what was I supposed to think. If you Will promise the world and then produce 'Brass soding Sun' then I'm just gonna think '...meh', hang my head and wander off. I can't even remember what else was in that prog since all I can think of when I look back on it is 'BRASS SODING SUN'.

Still, this prog was good, especially the bit where the clowns little gang of clown-groupies turn up. Heh heh, gotta chuckle at clown groupies :D
: Re: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 08 December, 2012, 07:54:09 PM
It wasn't so much that I don't like the anthology format as the fact that I think I was taken in by all the promises of prog 1800 being the prog for new readers to jump on and it was going to be all sugar and spice and stuff for us virtual-virgins but then... They gave me 'Brass soding Sun' and 'Grey Area'. I mean, what was I supposed to think. If you Will promise the world and then produce 'Brass soding Sun' then I'm just gonna think '...meh', hang my head and wander off. I can't even remember what else was in that prog since all I can think of when I look back on it is 'BRASS SODING SUN'.

That's the point BigBarryPenge was making about the anthology format. Neither you nor I were fussed about Grey Area, but I thought Brass Sun was consistently the best thing in the post-1800 line-up. Read through the relevant prog threads (before everyone lost their shit over the crossover) and you'll see that for everyone who hated ABC Warriors (for example) there are folk for whom nothing could have been better.

The way the anthology format introduces you to material you wouldn't normally read and forces you to take into account other folks' preferences is either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your outlook. For me, getting to know an artist or a writers through exposure to their work in 2000ad is a great way of navigating the wider world of comics and deciding which titles might be worth trying out for size.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mattofthespurs 08 December, 2012, 08:55:49 PM
Only once in about 30 times of trying.

Maybe you need to spend more money trying more often, Matt.

I actually think the opposite maybe true.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: SuperSurfer 08 December, 2012, 09:35:13 PM
Tiny pedant niggle: when Dredd catches that punch, she pulls back her right hand but he catches her left, petty I know... yes, yes I'm just a jealous, bitter and twisted, nit picking pedant
Ah, but we are told that as head of Black Ops she's got some moves, which she demonstrates against Point and Frank. So I can't imagine she would try to deck Dredd by drawing back her fist like that and advertising that she was going to give him a knuckle sandwich. A skilled fighter wouldn't do that, y'know.
: Re: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 08 December, 2012, 10:26:42 PM
The way the anthology format introduces you to material you wouldn't normally read and forces you to take into account other folks' preferences is either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your outlook.

The inverse is also true: you're forced to buy and support strips you hate in order to read ones you like.  The crossover compounded this in that when it kicked off I had decided not to read a certain strip anymore, but it was now intertwined with these two other strips I really liked so if I wanted to fully follow those I had to read a strip I didn't want to.
All the same, no one is forcing me to buy 2000ad and I'd be a right tool to suggest that just because I didn't get along with one strip the prog's 35 year-old format should change - doubly so if I only bought the book once every blue moon.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Tombo 08 December, 2012, 11:29:54 PM
All this talk of how smelly Smiley's poo is and how great the Prog is and no ones commented on the names of the two judges who lead the charge out of the sleeping quarters after Point and Demarco reverse the brainwashing effects.  Go on, go and have another look.

Also, at 13 pages I believe this is the longest Prog thread in nearly two years, surpassing even 1791's thread.
: Re: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 08 December, 2012, 11:33:33 PM
The way the anthology format introduces you to material you wouldn't normally read and forces you to take into account other folks' preferences is either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your outlook.

The inverse is also true

You're going to have to draw on the full force of your considerable rhetorical abilities to explain to me what the "inverse" of an either/or proposition might be, Hawkeye.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 08 December, 2012, 11:45:23 PM


(http://www.resimbul.com/sonuc/d/converse/converse-m9160/converse-m9160-8b00c9.png)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Matt Timson 09 December, 2012, 12:07:00 AM
I liked it enough to drag myself here and say so. Generally speaking, I dislike crossovers- mainly because I feel I'm being forced to spend money to stay in the loop- but this was a welcome surprise.

Great stuff.
: Re: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 09 December, 2012, 12:28:35 AM
The way the anthology format introduces you to material you wouldn't normally read and forces you to take into account other folks' preferences is either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your outlook.

The inverse is also true

You're going to have to draw on the full force of your considerable rhetorical abilities to explain to me what the "inverse" of an either/or proposition might be, Hawkeye.

The answer is, of course, "your mum."  That and the modify button went wandering again.

But mainly your mum.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: vzzbux 09 December, 2012, 04:54:05 PM
So what was Smiley doing during the Seinfield coup? Having a holiday.



V
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 09 December, 2012, 05:14:38 PM
So what was Smiley doing during the Seinfield coup? Having a holiday.

SINFIELD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V2sBURgUBI)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 09 December, 2012, 07:31:49 PM
So what was Smiley doing during the Seinfield coup? Having a holiday.



V
Scripting Talking Head's of the 22nd Century?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 09 December, 2012, 08:37:16 PM
So what was Smiley doing during the Seinfield coup? Having a holiday.

Ewing & Co feel they've covered that with Smiley's line about how it was Bachmann's job to take care of those exigencies and it was his job to keep an eye on her - he only stepped in when Bachmann herself became the threat. And there's this line:

"where I've tweaked here and there you'd be surprised"

It's more interesting to ponder what part he did play in the many calamities, conflicts and coups which have befallen MC1 over the last twenty years. Those will have to remain Untold Stories (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780571228317?redirected=true&gclid=CJqDkeSLjrQCFePHtAodBwcAZA) for now, but BigBarryPenge! (nee Tordelback) was on the money as usual when he said last week that the real villain of the story (and probably the next few years) had just revealed himself.

"Why do I get the feeling you just swapped one problem for another"

Smiley's an interesting antagonist, given the unique circumstances in which Dredd writers and readers find themselves regarding authorial authority; because of the largely invisible and undetectable role he plays in MC1, Smiley can drop in and out of the strip as required. He provides Wagner's understudies with the opportunity to script a major character with a significant role in long-term continuity (even to subtly rewrite existing continuity), while his absence and apparent inaction during Wagner scripted stories (in which he presumably will not feature) need not be explained ... at least until other writers return to the strip. Smiley might be Team Ewing's response to the dilemma of If Wagner didn't write it it didn't happen.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: JOE SOAP 09 December, 2012, 09:45:39 PM


I suspect that the Cold Deck has been planting seeds for a Kazan/Smiley interaction or play-off at some stage, if it hasn't all ready been happening behind the scenes. Both characters were manipulating Dredd in Bullet to King Four and Kazan was the one who first uttered the trigger-phrase that Dredd and Smiley put to good use.

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Pioneer 09 December, 2012, 09:59:01 PM
Anyone care to explain the whole Big Barry Penge thing?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 09 December, 2012, 10:11:23 PM
Anyone care to explain the whole Big Barry Penge thing?
Enormo Overdrives original name was Barry Penge, before he changed it by deed pole.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Pioneer 09 December, 2012, 10:51:09 PM
Anyone care to explain the whole Big Barry Penge thing?
Enormo Overdrives original name was Barry Penge, before he changed it by deed pole.

Ah right course, something I'll pick up again on the reread!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: I, Cosh 10 December, 2012, 12:40:05 AM
Didn't realise Trifecta is a real word: a type of bet, especially on horse races, in which the bettor must select the first three finishers...
I didn't know that either. Thanks for the info. I love learning some new bit of (fairly useless) information!  :thumbsup:
As someone who is a betting man I did know this word, much to my chagrin.
I thought I knew it and that it meant a group of three people, normally in some sort of position of power. Turns out I was wrong. On the bright side, the title of the third trade of The Losers (coming, as it does, after Ante Up and Double Down) makes a lot more sense now.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Cactus 10 December, 2012, 08:25:53 AM
I thought I knew it and that it meant a group of three people, normally in some sort of position of power.

That would be a triumvirate; like Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony and the other one.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: GordonR 10 December, 2012, 09:16:10 AM
I thought I knew it and that it meant a group of three people, normally in some sort of position of power.

That would be a triumvirate; like Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony and the other one.

A Roman bore writes:

There were two triumvirates. The first one with Julius Caesar, Marcus Crassus and Pompey Magnus. It ended with Crassus's death on his ill-advised invasion of the Parthian empire. The second one, post Caesar's assassination, was Mark Anthony, Octavian and Lepidus. Since Octavian went on to become Augustus, supreme ruler and first of the Roman emperors, you can guess how that power-sharing deal worked out for the triumvirate's other two members.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: oshii 10 December, 2012, 11:03:59 AM
Since Octavian went on to become Augustus, supreme ruler and first of the Roman emperors, you can guess how that power-sharing deal worked out for the triumvirate's other two members.

That's coalitions for you.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: staticgirl 14 December, 2012, 08:37:32 PM
Just popping in to say (in case any of the droids who worked on it ever look) that this series has been one of the best things I have ever read in a comic. I just loved the cleverness and the surprise as the different threads began to knit together.

Not being a long time reader I didn't get a lot of the continuity refs but it was so well written and illustrated that it didn't matter. The basic story and lots of the jokes came through shining. The art was fantastic and at times just gobsmacking.

I also enjoyed reading this thread, you nutters.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: revis84 15 December, 2012, 12:26:40 PM
Being a relative newbie (jumped on board as of Prog 1799) I certainly enjoyed the Trifecta saga. Still remember the night I realised all the stories were connected-had to flick between pages a few times to take this revelation in  :D

Looking forward to a full years worth of Progs and Big Megs, will be very zarjaz!

: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 15 December, 2012, 01:52:26 PM
Still remember the night I realised all the stories were connected-had to flick between pages a few times to take this revelation in  :D

Truly one of the best comics reading experiences I've ever had.  As you say, flicking back and forth between Dredd and Simping Detective thinking 'haaaaang on a mo....', and then on to Low Life!  Sad to say I twigged both SPOILERS FOR TWO OTHER GREAT 2000AD SWITCHEROOS Dead Man (square pupils) and Malone (clown demon) in advance of the actual reveal, but beyond the nagging curiosity generated by the Ducks, all I recall is mild irritation that two Wally Squad were scheduled for the same time, and then BAM!  Even better than the disorientating shocker in Cerebus: Reads where you, the reader, suddenly find yourself looking at the back of your own head, while at the same time feeling your own eyes watching you...  Priceless stuff, brilliantly conceived, paced and sustained. 
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dark Jimbo 15 December, 2012, 02:00:55 PM
...beyond the nagging curiosity generated by the Ducks, all I recall is mild irritation that two Wally Squad were scheduled for the same time, and then BAM!

Still can't believe I didn't twig.

Not only did I grumble on here about the repetition of the duck motif - 'as if further proof were needed of why two such similar strips shouldn't have been run at the same time; what are the chances?' - but when Folger's body was found in a Sector 13 chem pit I thought 'Tsk. Sector 13 again. These writers ought to talk to each other now and again to make sure they don't overlap ideas like this. Doesn't Al Ewing know that Sector 13 is where Simping Detective is set? And Low Life too, for that matter. All going on in the same sector and yet nobody ever mentions the events in the other strips.'
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: SuperSurfer 15 December, 2012, 02:24:43 PM
Those hints that something was going on demonstrate the quality of writing and editing that I believe sets 2000AD apart from most comics. Only once before can I remember noticing something in a comic that barely registered at the time and then a few issues on things became apparent. It was in an early issue of Love and Rockets when I noticed one of the characters seemed a bit weightier. A few issues on, an episode began with her looking in a mirror, just having realised that she had put on weight. Just how things would work out in real life. Don't come across that kind of thing in comics often - everything is usually spelt out for the reader.

But in Low Life - what a 'BAM' that was - Dredd kicking a door down. One of my favourite 2000AD moments ever.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dark Jimbo 15 December, 2012, 02:43:06 PM
Yeah, that really was the genius of it - not only that nobody saw it coming but that in retrosect all the clues are there.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Mabs 15 December, 2012, 09:50:56 PM
Ah man that was truly terrific! I think its a good time for me to read the Trifecta storyline from the start. I think the fact now i  know about the overlap, it'll be more of a fun read just looking for the clues. :D
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: FinH 16 December, 2012, 12:03:35 PM
WOW.

I sure picked the right time to come back to the fold.  Pity I could only afford to get digital copies of recent progs 'cause it's too expensive to get physical copies sent here to Oz but I just read the 'Trifecta' conclusion and was absolutely blown away by the scope, ingenuity and ambition of the whole intertwining threads thing.

I don't really have anything new to say that a hundred other people have already said in previous posts, I guess,but just wanted to register my delight within earshot of others who will also appreciate what I'm talking about.

One thing: that Travis Perkins gorilla guy seemed to get his head blown off in a pretty off-hand, arbitrary sort of way.  I'm a bit behind on De Marco's story but wasn't he a reasonably significant character in 2000AD?  He just seemed to get killed off with oddly little fanfare and De Marco just referred to him as having had "her gorilla killed" like he was a piece of property rather than a person.  Anyone shed any light on this for me?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 16 December, 2012, 12:16:17 PM
One thing: that Travis Perkins gorilla guy seemed to get his head blown off in a pretty off-hand, arbitrary sort of way.  I'm a bit behind on De Marco's story but wasn't he a reasonably significant character in 2000AD?  He just seemed to get killed off with oddly little fanfare and De Marco just referred to him as having had "her gorilla killed" like he was a piece of property rather than a person.  Anyone shed any light on this for me?

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Travis was 'reasonably significant', but I certainly liked the character and was sorry to see him stuffed in a fridge, so to speak.  Apart from upholding the Dredd Epic Tradition of offhandedly murdering supporting characters, I suspect the problem here is DeMarco herself - she was such a fantastic character, but since Doomsday has since struggled to find anything interesting to do in her solo outings (from whence Travis hailed).  Knocking the PI partnership on the head by offing Travis and folding her in with Simping Detective (where she had previosuly guested) seems like a solution, but I'm not sure it's one I like. 

Anyway, in memoriam here are work-in-progress shots of DeMarco PI and Travis Pickle, Urbane Gorilla from the Mongoose Kickstarter (and a Hershey with fine child-bearing hips):
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/312226/posts/368337/image-191750-full.jpg?1355404322)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 16 December, 2012, 12:16:48 PM
Perkins/Bickle/Pickle, you know what I meant.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: FinH 16 December, 2012, 12:49:12 PM
I'm pretty impressed with the De Marco miniature they did, but I still picked Anderson for my Kickstarter.  :)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: The Adventurer 18 December, 2012, 05:48:05 AM
I'd been waiting on the last 5 weeks of this years print copies of 2000 AD for way too long. And when I decided to buy Prog 2013 digitally and start my digital subscription I got the last 4 weeks of the year for free. So I said 'fuck it' and just bought the missing issue. Then promptly read a five issues I. One whack. Thrill Power overload indeed.

Anyway, that means I finally got caught up on Trifecta. And good grief did it not disappoint. Such a great roller coaster of events Nd one of the best crossovers I've ever seen executed. Also was reminded why I love Critchlow so much as an artist. Guy can draw (where is my next installment of Lobster Random Tharg?!)

One thing... With all the crossing over going on I was marginally disappointed that Anderson didn't pop her head in for a second. I was convinced she was the one who had planted all the mind blocks once they started to become a plot point, but alas.


Question, Judge Smiley is a new character retconed into Dredd cannon, yes? I like him, guy's got moxey.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 18 December, 2012, 11:13:19 AM
I share Orlok's sentiment over at ECBT2KAD, when you take Smiley at face value as a new character in this story, it's OK, but over all there have been to many instances in MC1 history where you'd have though Smiley may consider important enough to pop his head right in and say 'Hullo'.
The Sinfield takeover, isn't that what Smiley was placed in BO for, and acting behind the scene's can only be to his addvantage, Sinfield wont even know he exists. Don't get me started on using his inability to do anything in the Titan Rebellion, and no, Bachmann did not do a good job of sortting THAT out thank you very much you smug git.
I'm sorry but all I see is alot of retconning coming from this corner of a foreign field. And I've had enough of retconning from Mr.P.Mills thank you very much.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 18 December, 2012, 01:05:06 PM
The Sinfield takeover, isn't that what Smiley was placed in BO for, and acting behind the scene's can only be to his addvantage, Sinfield wont even know he exists. Don't get me started on using his inability to do anything in the Titan Rebellion, and no, Bachmann did not do a good job of sortting THAT out thank you very much you smug git.

Sinfield 'takeover'?  All that happened there was that Sinfield slipped PJ's magic beans into Francisco's soup, there was no hostile plot as such, he was just a corrupt incompetent who opportunistically manoeuvred himself into high office - nothing bad really happened by the standards of MC-1.  He was no Cal and he was going to hang himself eventually.

As to Inferno, well what of it?  There's not really any point looking for rational explanations in a wholly moronic story, but you might argue, if you were so inclined, that perhaps the ridiculous ease with which the Judges take back the city makes a molecule more sense with a hidden ally.

Doomsday may be the takeover where a decent intelligence unit might have been handy, but seeing as everyone was wrong-footed there, and seeing as Smiley is more about internal matters anyway, it's not inconsistent.  Again, you could interpret Volt's "we are not without resource" speech as partly referring to Blacker-than-Black Ops.

Given that the writers hung a very tasteful lampshade on the whole business, and given that behind the scenes, 'not in the official history', is the whole point of Smiley, I'm happy to accept what is a fundamental enriching of Dredd's world, in the service of a really great story and hopefully more to come.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 18 December, 2012, 01:35:20 PM
Apart from upholding the Dredd Epic Tradition of offhandedly murdering supporting characters,

Leaving aside that one man's tradition is another man's lazy cliche*, was Travis even a supporting character?  This was DeMarco's first appearance in the prog since she resigned as Sector chief (Dredd's comments even say as much), so I'd lay money pretty much everyone reading didn't have a clue she'd latterly had a lobotomy and was hanging out with a talking gorilla.  At best he's a supporting character to a supporting character, no more significant in the context of a Dredd story than the 750 million faceless cits who carked in DoC.


* I think "killing off a minor character for shock value" was officially cliche when one of DC's books had a story where a minor character was kidnapped by a bloke with Wolverine hair and told "I'm not going to kill you just to get their attention - I'm not that insecure" and THAT STORY WAS WRITTEN BY ROB LIEFELD.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 18 December, 2012, 06:17:59 PM
This was DeMarco's first appearance in the prog since she resigned as Sector chief ...

In the Prog, yes, but as far as the core Dredd strip goes she headlined her own half of the Doomsday crossover in the Meg...  That seems pretty significant.  Has anyone else ever done that?  (Maybe Castillo in Wilderlands ?)

As to Travis, yeah, much as I enjoyed him, pretty minor player.
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Dark Jimbo 18 December, 2012, 06:36:36 PM
...was Travis even a supporting character? ...At best he's a supporting character to a supporting character, no more significant in the context of a Dredd story than the 750 million faceless cits who carked in DoC.

Your posts make it pretty clear that you don't like the character - fair enough - but you keep wilfully ignoring a pretty significant chunk of Meg stories in order to make your agument work. Quality or longterm significance aside, Demarco had quite a few stories under the 'PI' banner and Travis was a signifcant part of every single one of those, right from the beginning. He got arguably more character development in them than Demarco herself ever did, and I'd actually be prepared to put money on the fact that he even got more lines; one three-parter was set entirely in Apetown exploring his past - it was nothing but an exercise in character-building for Travis!
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Professor Bear 18 December, 2012, 07:08:49 PM
Though aware of those Demarco PI stories as something that existed*, my entire point is that I never read those stories, and I will lay money given the Meg's state at the time that I am not alone in this and thus is created the disparity for prog readers to which I refer.

I am sure that regardless of whether or not it succeeded Demarco PI made every effort to express character and personality for its players, but as of Simping she's a big-tittied redhead for the main character to rescue and then get off with, and given the last time she was seen in the prog - and again I did specify the prog - this creates an odd counter-development where someone previously portrayed as smart, capable and passionate is for some reason now dim, useless and a bit of a chump.  Oh, and she had a talking monkey, but he got shot and she's not bothered, so clearly the monkey wasn't very important.

* Admittedly from the arcade levels of Dredd Vs Death
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: FinH 19 December, 2012, 01:19:24 AM
I found itv vaguely irritating when Garth Tennis killed off Dekker and whatserface (female Judge whose name temporarily eludes me) in the zombie onslaught. I don't know why but I just got the vibe of "Hee hee I'm in charge of the Dress universe right now and I feel like arbitrarily bumping these two characters just for the fuck of it" off Ennis. That's just my personal take on it but it's what I felt
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 19 December, 2012, 05:38:20 PM
That's just my personal take on it but it's what I felt

You weren't wrong.  Who was the other one, besides poor Dekker?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Jim_Campbell 19 December, 2012, 05:58:58 PM
You weren't wrong.  Who was the other one, besides poor Dekker?

Armour, first Brit-Cit judge we'd ever seen, gets killed off-panel without so much as some final words. Wouldn't have annoyed me half as much had Ennis not contrived to keep his own Judge Joyce out of the firing line…

Cheers

Jim
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Frank 19 December, 2012, 07:08:03 PM
I found it vaguely irritating when Earth Gennis killed off Dekker and whatserface (female Judge whose name temporarily eludes me) in the zombie onslaught

You weren't wrong.  Who was the other one, besides poor Dekker?

Perrier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_Judge_Dredd#Perrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_Judge_Dredd#Perrier)
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: TordelBack 19 December, 2012, 07:22:23 PM
Perrier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_Judge_Dredd#Perrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_Judge_Dredd#Perrier)

Of course, hander-outer of the Stub Gun!  I'd forgotten about poor Armour, but the Joyce switcheroo was one of a handful of things I liked about Judgement Day.  Didn't Inspector Sadu get it too?
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: FinH 20 December, 2012, 02:00:54 AM
Perrier, that's it!  Thanks.  And thankyou autocorrect for adjusting my typing to reflect the true titles of writer Garth Tennis and famed MegaCity lawman Judge Dress....

Oh, and to my great chagrin, he also killed off the only recurring Aussie Judge ever - poor old Bruce!  Although he did get some decent final words, at least. 
: Re: Prog 1812 Trifecta
: Hawkmumbler 20 December, 2012, 03:40:34 PM
Who was the Brit-Cit Judge that bought the dust? Can't recall...