The BBC have revealed the title and details for the Doctor Who 2013 Christmas special! The episode, which will be Matt Smith's final as The Doctor, is called 'The Time of the Doctor' and will air on Christmas Day on BBC One.
Check out the synopsis:
"Orbiting a quiet backwater planet, the massed forces of the universe's deadliest species gather, drawn to a mysterious message that echoes out to the stars. And amongst them – the Doctor. Rescuing Clara from a family Christmas dinner, the Time Lord and his best friend must learn what this enigmatic signal means for his own fate and that of the universe."
With teaser trailer;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMOOLd_44Mo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMOOLd_44Mo)
(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/screencrush.com/files/2013/11/KoBFIO3.jpg)
Jughead crowns are cool.
and as someone on Tumblr pointed out....
(http://media.tumblr.com/b901aa891f7a6dbd2c00ad84478af4eb/tumblr_inline_mwuub8qL9K1qmlph5.png)
CAPALDI
Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 26 November, 2013, 09:58:50 AM
and as someone on Tumblr pointed out....
(http://media.tumblr.com/b901aa891f7a6dbd2c00ad84478af4eb/tumblr_inline_mwuub8qL9K1qmlph5.png)
CAPALDI
Interesting, of course sounds daft, that he was featured in The Fires of Pompeii
That poster is a serious piece of work - it's surely beyond the abilities of most mortals to make Jenna look old and frumpy.
Quote from: TordelBack on 26 November, 2013, 10:19:12 AM
That poster is a serious piece of work - it's surely beyond the abilities of most mortals to make Jenna look old and frumpy.
Really? I didn't rate her before, but now I'm thinking 'nice!' It must be the tartan skirt.
Maybe old, frumpy and wannabe-Scot is your thing? Watch out Richmond!
Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 26 November, 2013, 10:33:17 AM
Really? I didn't rate her before, but now I'm thinking 'nice!' It must be the tartan skirt.
You jocks are crazy
Tartan minis are cool. :)
That's the friendliest looking Cyberman head I've ever seen.
Clara's hat won't survive long in that weather.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 26 November, 2013, 09:15:44 AM
Jughead crowns are cool.
What on earth is a Jughead crown...? :o
oh god...the spoilers i read on galifrey base may be legit....
Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 26 November, 2013, 10:33:17 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 26 November, 2013, 10:19:12 AM
That poster is a serious piece of work - it's surely beyond the abilities of most mortals to make Jenna look old and frumpy.
Really? I didn't rate her before, but now I'm thinking 'nice!' It must be the tartan skirt.
its a cracker!
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 26 November, 2013, 03:56:54 PM
What on earth is a Jughead crown...? :o
Jughead's an Archie comics character. Not very well known in the UK in spite of being part of a cartoon band that got to No.1 in the charts here with an annoyingly catchy tune some time around the late '60s/early '70s.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 26 November, 2013, 03:53:35 PM
That's the friendliest looking Cyberman head I've ever seen.
Clara's hat won't survive long in that weather.
That cyberhead is patched up and appears to be partially made of chainmail from the neck down.
I cannot, for the life of me, see Capaldi. Sure it's not jesus in some toast?
But is that not Tardis-blue, the colour of the lamp housing atop that church? Surely that's not a church tower built around the dead Tardis on Trenzalore? A church to worship to Doctor?
SBT
There's definitely a face in the flame between the Doctor's left wrist and Clara's right but I can't make out who it is.
"A church to worship to Doctor?" - that's a lot of extrapolation to get to indignance/outrage/happiness/insert appropriate emotion.
Definitely Mr. Capaldi.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/MalcolmKirk/capaldi_zps712840f3.png)
It looks more like Paul McGann to me.
It's Peter Cushing. Probably.
It looks like Aidan Quinn.
(http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af68/strontium71/aidan-quinn-premiere-our-idiot-brother-01.jpg)
It looks like an IC1 male, 30-60. Round up the usual suspects.
Quote from: TordelBack on 26 November, 2013, 07:29:10 PM
It looks like an IC1 male, 30-60. Round up the usual suspects.
About 80% of us in the forum...
There is biggest spoiler, that maybe be resolved on Xmas Special...
As Steven Moffat tell Daily Mirror; [spoiler]Matt Smith is the 13th Doctor[/spoiler]
Those are Capaldi eyes, I'm telling ye.
...though it does look like McGann as well. Pfft... Now I'm not sure.
It would appear there's another poster with a different face hidden in flames, (bottom left)...
http://www.kasterborous.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/2013/11/5145395-low-doctor-who.jpg (http://www.kasterborous.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/2013/11/5145395-low-doctor-who.jpg)
That one looks like it's Peter Capaldi.
Some other folk on t'internet are seeing McGann in the first pic, but my bet is they're both Capaldi.
new poster
(http://i.imgur.com/m4cH9D8.jpg)
New trailer and looks good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njNnTDiLOd4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njNnTDiLOd4)
I know its not very constructive but I'm going to rant on anyway.
I bloody wish they would stop with these posters. At least while they look like they do. They are all so bloody glowing and shiny and synthetic looking - bloomin' horrible.
Sorry rant over.
I agree Colin, I'm not impressed b y the shininess of these things either.
I've just worked out what Clara looks like in that poster. Its been bugging me but I've cracked it.
Imagine if you will someone broke into Madame Taussauds stole the figures for Princess Catherine Cambridge whatever she is called and the one for Suzanne Reid (well she might have one). Took them away and mushed them together under some very bright lights. That right there is that picture of Clara.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 12 December, 2013, 11:20:18 AM
I've just worked out what Clara looks like in that poster. Its been bugging me but I've cracked it.
Imagine if you will someone broke into Madame Taussauds stole the figures for Princess Catherine Cambridge whatever she is called and the one for Suzanne Reid (well she might have one). Took them away and mushed them together under some very bright lights. That right there is that picture of Clara.
Ummm, Suzanne Reid!
They got it right with the simultaneous broadcast for the 50th
Amy news on a 26th release for itunes and BBC worldwide anyone know.
I understand they can't show here before the uk.
But why is it faster to get it on certain none official sites then the premium ones on the interweb thingy
Just seen the new trailer... Interesting especially when the Dalek says the dr is regenerating
The Doctors regenerating as a Dalek? Cool!
So Matt is going to regenerate part way through and Capaldi will finish off the threat.mid that is the case that might well be the lamest regeneration story thus far.
Why, precisely, would that be a bad thing? Personally, I'd prefer it if Smith regenerated in the first minute of the thing and we got a whole special of Capaldi.
Quote from: Greg M. on 13 December, 2013, 07:06:08 AM
Why, precisely, would that be a bad thing? Personally, I'd prefer it if Smith regenerated in the first minute of the thing and we got a whole special of Capaldi.
Every other regeneration (Save for Colin and McCoy but they where down to production issues) have regenerated at the end of the story with the doctor being victorious, a little slither of joy to remember that doctor for....well, except for The End of Time maybe. Having Smith regenerate in the face of defeat just seem's a very sad end to what has been a generally more light hearted incarnation of the Doctor. :|
Just my two pence of course, and even if it does prove to be the case I wont knock it till it's over.
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 13 December, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Every other regeneration ...have regenerated at the end of the story with the doctor being victorious, a little slither of joy to remember that doctor for....
So if and its a big IF this time its different surely that could be a good thing? We'll all have to wait and see before we can judge mind.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 13 December, 2013, 09:02:49 AM
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 13 December, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Every other regeneration ...have regenerated at the end of the story with the doctor being victorious, a little slither of joy to remember that doctor for....
So if and its a big IF this time its different surely that could be a good thing? We'll all have to wait and see before we can judge mind.
Indeed. I was being presumptuous, but if indeed it is the case, it'll have to be executed well for me to like it.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 13 December, 2013, 09:02:49 AM
So if and its a big IF this time its different surely that could be a good thing? We'll all have to wait and see before we can judge mind.
Absolutely. Shaking up regenerations can be a good thing - just look at Colin Baker.
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 13 December, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Quote from: Greg M. on 13 December, 2013, 07:06:08 AM
Why, precisely, would that be a bad thing? Personally, I'd prefer it if Smith regenerated in the first minute of the thing and we got a whole special of Capaldi.
Every other regeneration (Save for Colin and McCoy but they where down to production issues) have regenerated at the end of the story with the doctor being victorious, a little slither of joy to remember that doctor for....well, except for The End of Time maybe. Having Smith regenerate in the face of defeat just seem's a very sad end to what has been a generally more light hearted incarnation of the Doctor. :|
Just my two pence of course, and even if it does prove to be the case I wont knock it till it's over.
How
dare they try something different!
Did i not say I would reserve final judgement until I saw the episode? ;)
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 13 December, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Every other regeneration (Save for Colin and McCoy but they where down to production issues) have regenerated at the end of the story with the doctor being victorious, a little slither of joy to remember that doctor for....well, except for The End of Time maybe. Having Smith regenerate in the face of defeat just seems a very sad end to what has been a generally more light hearted incarnation of the Doctor. :|
Not Troughton's, surely? It was most bittersweet of the lot. Far from being victorious, he's forced to admit the scale of the problem before him is too great for him to handle, leaving him no choice but to call in the Time Lords that he spent the whole of the 60s running from. He's then called to account for his actions, fails to convince them he's in the right, loses his companions, has a regenration forced on him and is exiled to Earth.
And most of its power comes from that bittersweetness. A sad end isn't necessarily a
bad end.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2013, 12:43:20 PM
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 13 December, 2013, 07:57:39 AM
Every other regeneration (Save for Colin and McCoy but they where down to production issues) have regenerated at the end of the story with the doctor being victorious, a little slither of joy to remember that doctor for....well, except for The End of Time maybe. Having Smith regenerate in the face of defeat just seems a very sad end to what has been a generally more light hearted incarnation of the Doctor. :|
Not Troughton's, surely? It was most bittersweet of the lot. Far from being victorious, he's forced to admit the scale of the problem before him is too great for him to handle, leaving him no choice but to call in the Time Lords that he spent the whole of the 60s running from. He's then called to account for his actions, fails to convince them he's in the right, loses his companions, has a regenration forced on him and is exiled to Earth.
And most of its power comes from that bittersweetness. A sad end isn't necessarily a bad end.
And with that I'm resigned to the fact it might be OK after all! :lol:
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 13 December, 2013, 11:55:57 AM
Did i not say I would reserve final judgement until I saw the episode? ;)
This is the Internet, we will have none of that sort of stuff here!
Was watch The Wedding Of River Song, loved that episode, smart ending! One thing interesting about the episode is the quote in it;
"On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered."
And so tomorrow Xmas episode would be [spoiler]back at Trenzalore again?[/spoiler]
Well, it will be the fall of the 11th. Or.....12th when you include Hurt I guess!
Also some media sites mention that 11th Doctor realise he's 13th...
Anyone have Moffat's number? I want to ring him and remind him that sometimes less is more.
Quite.
Well that was... almost very good... almost... but there was so much that was terrible about it that to have achieved almost good is a minor miracle.
I mean the whole lets wrap up the Dalek invasion thing with explosions of regeneration power was pretty poor. All the breaking the fourth wall but not having the courage of your convictions. The continual mawkish self reference that's marred the 50th celebrations, Matt Smith in Adventures in time and space, Tom Baker in the last one, Karen Gillen in this really was grating. The whole, look at the Daleks they are terrible beasties... well except when knocking a few off cheaply serves the plot. All that and more I hated.
Yet I found myself engaged and entertained when I wasn't being urked.
Kinda hope for a complete break now. Leave all the plots that have been and a nice fresh start. Get Carla boxed off as quick as you like and lets start afresh huh.
Oh and stop cranking the bloody Angels in will you. They were once brilliant now the lack of logic in them is so far beyond breaking point they are just annoying...
Sigh. One day they'll be a special I wholeheartedly get behind... one day...
Quote from: JamesC on 25 December, 2013, 08:34:07 PM
Anyone have Moffat's number? I want to ring him and remind him that sometimes less is more.
Oh and this.
You're all just grumpy because you got socks again for Xmas. I thought it was fab and terribly touching. Hurrah.
Very disappointing overall with occasional flashes of adequacy. Looking forward to seeing what Capaldi can do, though.
Only saw bits of it, was so loud in our house I switched off and grumbled by myself while flicking trough The Fictional Man.
....
TOO IPLAYER!!!!
All in all an adequate sending off for Smith. I thought the regeneration dragged on abit and hoped for a different angle on it as it's got a bit formulaic the last couple of times. As mentioned its clean slate time
take the show in a totally different direction now.
What a load of wank. The best bit was Capaldi at the end.
KIDNEYS
A good last line but the rest was (as, sadly, has been most of Smith's tenure) gubbins.
The fact it needed a voiceover at one point to explain everything said it all.
I guess it's always tricky with transitions but I doubt I'll watch it again.
It certainly wasn't classic who was it. I'm never a fan of the 'and then 300 years passed in a montage' especially as not enough time was given for it to have any real impact. Bit of a wasted opportunity all round. Can't we have Neil Gaiman as show runner now.
I'm with the Lessismore Block and the Cleanslate Citidef feckers! Who you fighting for?
Clean Slate or the Beeb have a block war on their hands. More Gaiman on scripts too, Moffat to go back to Sherlock duties for good !
Pretty piss poor frankly and not the send off Matt Smith deserved.
Let's hope Peter Capaldi's appointment equals less whimsy next year.
That was pretty awful. It's time for Moffatt to go. As others have said, too many barely developed ideas thrown into the mix - at the very least, get this man a script editor! It's a shame, as his position as showrunner promised so much - he had written the best episodes of modern Who ever under RTD - but he desperately needs someone to tell him "No", or at the very least polish up his half-decent ideas and turn them into watchable telly. 30 seconds of Capaldi was better than the entire 59:30 of Smith bailing out - if only that rumour of Capaldi taking over partway through the episode had been true.
As for the 'more Gaiman' suggestions - well, he's got a 50% batting average at present: one brilliant episode and one absolutely diabolically bad. That puts him about on a par with Neil Cross. What you really want is to get Paul Cornell back to write a few.
My thoughts while watching the show were as follows:
Oh look, it's those famous foes of the Doctor
So they're naked but not really?
Why isn't he Peter Capaldi yet?
Oh look, it's those famous foes of the Doctor
Oh he's bald now, is that because skinheads are cool? And he's going to be bald for the whole episo...nope.
Why isn't he Peter Capaldi yet?
Oh look, it's those famous foes of the Doctor
A narrator? Stevieboy, you really haven't internalised the whole "Show don't tell" concept, have you?
Why isn't he Peter Capaldi yet?
That's some top notch old man make-up.
Oh look, it's those famous foes of the Doctor
Oh look, Clara's saving the day with love and compassion and raindrops on roses and whiskers and kittens and a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.
FINALLY HE'S TURNING INto...nope.
Oh look, it's a cameo by a popular past character.
FINALLY HE'S TURNING INTO PETER CAPAL.....Oh.....it's over.
Hey the music is slightly different.
Not a Who fan, but after the 50th anniversary thingy, I thought id like to catch this one.
I fell asleep before it came on, and literally woke up just in time to catch the regeneration scene at the end.
Over all pretty shite. Pointless new characters, underminign the threat of the Silence, pointless re-use of once great enemies. What was an almost perfect good bye scene was ruined by Amy popping up. BRILLiANT first scene with Capaldi.
I loved Matt Smith, I really did, he was funny, charming and engaging. But in terms of scripts he was landed with the most consistently shite since Colin Baker. Thanks Matt, you did a great job with what you had.
Now, Mr. Capaldi....
I liked it.
A bit over the shop for the first half hour until I twigged we were seeing a compressed season or two worth of plots-that-would-have-been if Smith had stayed on, but after that it was sentimental without being maudlin, silly without being hysterical, and in a true Christmas miracle settled on the idea of celebrating life rather than fetishising death as was the case with at least the last two regenerations.
Though as I say, it's a shame the good stuff right at the end where the Doctor all but asks the kids watching "please don't be sad" had to be overshadowed by the contractually mandated appearances of BBC merchandise the various baddies, because there was a genuinely affecting episode in there that couldn't really happen because of all the shouty running spectacle people seem to want at the expense of sense or character, which the show recognised on a meta level when the genuinely touching moment between Clara and her gran was dismissed with the contemptuous sneer of "tch - crying at Christmas?"
Maybe not a good episode, but a good send-off for Smith.
I enjoyed it. Only disappointment was not getting a Weeping Angel/Silence stare-off scene.
Been thinking about it a bit and think I enjoyed it more than I realise. I'll give it another twirl later in the week.
It was ok. But I think the Day Of The Doctor was miles better. The writing felt like a rush job, obviously a deadline needed to be met. I'm glad I watched it though, and am definitely looking forward to the next series.
I really enjoyed it and so did the rest of the family (Wife and 9 year old Son).
Much of it was bollocks but if you look in the dictionary under bollocks it says 'see Doctor Who'.
Fun, emotional, exciting, expansive, flashy. Ultimately like a big empty shiny box.
I like shiny things.
Genuinely cannot figure out if i liked it or not.
I didn't dislike it. Found it very watchable and entertaining in fact. And I was glad they dealt with the issue of the 13 regenerations, although the way it came about....
But, I did find it rather rubbish. Mainly due to the plot resolutions. [spoiler]Blasting enemies with regeneration energy (I know it's pretty explosive in New Who but how did that suddenly become a weapon? ) then Clara getting the Doctor's new regenerations by, well, asking the Time Lords. Actually... I don't mind that tooo much, but I wish it had happened in a different way rather than just saying a little prayer near the crack in time. I.e. if she's actually gone through and spoken with them, negotiating face to face... now THAT could have been interesting.[/spoiler]
And the boasting and hyperbole does get on my wick a bit. Like: "Hey! Look! We're being really clever and momentous!" Smeg off.
Plus, if the Time Lords were just waiting for confirmatio that they were in the right place (needing an answer to the question "Doctor who?" then why didn't Clara begging and them sending extra regenerations to The Doctor confirm that? And then they come ripping through the crack?
or did I miss something? It was waaaay too mired in continuity for me to figure out and, like Bear, I just liked the little, quiet scenes.
I thought the very idea of the time war was that the Timelords and Daleks were trying to wipe each other out.
If the Daleks win they're going to exterminate everyone else in the Universe right?
So in New Who the only force keeping the Daleks in check has been the Doctor.
So with the Doctor stuck on Trenzalore for 300 years what's stopping the Daleks going off and exterminating their way across the rest of the universe? Ok so some Daleks are orbiting Trenzalore and trying to kill off the Doctor or whatever, but surely not the entire Dalek race.
I felt I'd done a 300 year sentence on Titan watching this...mess. Not too good. At least CAPALDI (best thing in it for all thirty seconds) looks like he 'll make a decent Doc but decent scripts are needed too.
I loved it.
:lol:
I'm with the Trout block :D
filippo
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 25 December, 2013, 08:43:50 PM
Kinda hope for a complete break now. Leave all the plots that have been and a nice fresh start. Get Carla boxed off as quick as you like and lets start afresh huh.
Oh and stop cranking the bloody Angels in will you. They were once brilliant now the lack of logic in them is so far beyond breaking point they are just annoying...
Very much agreed on both points. The only comfort of the episode being such a mess of plot points jammed in at random and dealt with in a heartbeat, was thinking that was just to tie them all up, and then bin them so the Capaldi version can be a new slate.
As for the weepy buggers.....ok, so they was there to try and .....well.....they where there for the same reason as all the rest right? And no-one could get near the planet cause of the force field....not even the Dr......so erm.....how come they where on the planet then? And why where they content to just lie in a fackin' snow drift rather than go kill every bugger in town??
Overall, a complete mess of an episode not worth wading through to see the changeover.
Moffat had like 3 good ideas ever and just shoehorns them into retarded plots over and over again.
Quote from: CheechFU on 26 December, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
Moffat had like 3 good ideas ever and just shoehorns them into retarded plots over and over again.
Two things: pretty much every writer ever recycles the same plot again and again.
And also - do not use the 'R' word as pejorative, it does you no credit.
giving it another viewing until gangsta granny interrupted I found the actual goodbye a bit of an anti climax and forgive all the other plot holes etc cos its Christmas entertainment and not Shakespeare it is weird seeing an old fella as the doc after so long looking forward to how they take it, I read somewhere they may do a more baker/gothic slant which wouldn't be a bad thing.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 26 December, 2013, 12:44:04 PM
Plus, if the Time Lords were just waiting for confirmatio that they were in the right place (needing an answer to the question "Doctor who?" then why didn't Clara begging and them sending extra regenerations to The Doctor confirm that? And then they come ripping through the crack?
Clara could have been anyone chancing their arm as far as the Time Lords were concerned, so they sent through some timey-wimey energy to jump-start a Gallifryan regeneration on the offchance it
was really the Doctor on the other side as he's their ticket back into the universe - only a Time Lord would be affected and there was only one of those outside Gallifry, so they weren't risking much, especially as they closed the time crack thingy tight behind them afterward.
The more I think about it, the more I like that though it was compressed,
all of it makes sense, right down to the thematic use of a turkey ("it might be cooked or it might lay an egg"), the Doctor not recognising the Silence as an old foe but then minutes later someone mentions in a throwaway line that they traveled back along the Doctor's timeline and met him at an earlier date
by using the crack in time to do so turning the whole Matt Smith run - a Doctor whose fatalism makes him one of the few iterations of the character who believed that the piper always had to be paid - into a single storyline where effect predates cause, and even the littlest touches like the Doctor taking off the bow tie because he knows that
only he thinks they're cool and the next guy won't - a lot happened because it was what the Doctor got up to for 300 years and he's not a man who ends up anywhere quiet at the best of times, but it seems like it all lines up pretty good.
So why didn't the Daleks go on a big murder spree over those 300 years?
Quote from: JamesC on 26 December, 2013, 09:59:07 PM
So why didn't the Daleks go on a big murder spree over those 300 years?
A more pertinent question than 'Dr. Who?'
Ahh, I won't bitch about it too much- it was an hour of sci-fi kid friendly telly that got me out of an hour in my aunts house making small talk to drunk folk.
Wasn't
terrible, but yeah, disappointing.
Quote from: JamesC on 26 December, 2013, 09:59:07 PM
So why didn't the Daleks go on a big murder spree over those 300 years?
Because then the Cybermen, Sontarans, Silents, or Tereleptils get to the planet.
Also, it seems to be one task force in one big spaceship. So a battalion of Daleks spent, say, 600 years - from 2013 to 2613, say - waiting for the stalemate at this one planet to be broken. Meanwhile, across the galaxy, every other battalion of Daleks was meanwhile doing other Daleky things. In 2157, they invade Earth and the first Doctor stops them. In 2540, they're pulling their space plague wheeze and the third Doctor stops them. Leaving accomplishes nothing.
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 26 December, 2013, 05:04:51 PM
Quote from: CheechFU on 26 December, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
Moffat had like 3 good ideas ever and just shoehorns them into retarded plots over and over again.
Two things: pretty much every writer ever recycles the same plot again and again.
And also - do not use the 'R' word as pejorative, it does you no credit.
Thanks taking time out of your busy Christmas schedule to critique my internet post.
Which is sarcasm, which is what I am using right now.
Keep it up!
That was also sarcasm. Just fyi.
And that bit too.
But you shouldn't let it discourage you from handing out future internet guidance and wisdom. This is definitely sarcasm, there's really no need to bring it to your attention but I want
you to know.
You might want to also pay attention to how I used the bold tag there, it was quite subtle, like a ninja checkmate.
Again. A+. Thanks.
retard retard.
Watch your language, please. One more incidence of this and the mods will be asked to hand you a temporary ban.
QuoteThanks taking time out of your busy Christmas schedule to critique my internet post.
Which is sarcasm, which is what I am using right now.
Keep it up!
That was also sarcasm. Just fyi.
And that bit too.
But you shouldn't let it discourage you from handing out future internet guidance and wisdom. This is definitely sarcasm, there's really no need to bring it to your attention but I want you to know.
You might want to also pay attention to how I used the bold tag there, it was quite subtle, like a ninja checkmate.
Again. A+. Thanks. retard retard.
Richmond is a mod, ChuckleFuzz.
Quote from: CheechFU on 27 December, 2013, 01:15:00 AM
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 26 December, 2013, 05:04:51 PM
Quote from: CheechFU on 26 December, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
Moffat had like 3 good ideas ever and just shoehorns them into retarded plots over and over again.
Two things: pretty much every writer ever recycles the same plot again and again.
And also - do not use the 'R' word as pejorative, it does you no credit.
Thanks taking time out of your busy Christmas schedule to critique my internet post.
Which is sarcasm, which is what I am using right now.
Keep it up!
That was also sarcasm. Just fyi.
And that bit too.
But you shouldn't let it discourage you from handing out future internet guidance and wisdom. This is definitely sarcasm, there's really no need to bring it to your attention but I want you to know.
You might want to also pay attention to how I used the bold tag there, it was quite subtle, like a ninja checkmate.
Again. A+. Thanks. retard retard.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 27 December, 2013, 12:01:22 AM
Quote from: JamesC on 26 December, 2013, 09:59:07 PM
So why didn't the Daleks go on a big murder spree over those 300 years?
Because then the Cybermen, Sontarans, Silents, or Tereleptils get to the planet.
Also, it seems to be one task force in one big spaceship. So a battalion of Daleks spent, say, 600 years - from 2013 to 2613, say - waiting for the stalemate at this one planet to be broken. Meanwhile, across the galaxy, every other battalion of Daleks was meanwhile doing other Daleky things. In 2157, they invade Earth and the first Doctor stops them. In 2540, they're pulling their space plague wheeze and the third Doctor stops them. Leaving accomplishes nothing.
This is why the whole time war thing confuses me.
The Daleks that are at the planet rare presumably aware of the time war and that their plans were thwarted. Even if these are pre-time war Daleks they must learn of it from those church bods they took over. So why not just carry out whatever plan they had that kicked the time war off in the first place! Or at least communicate that plan to earlier Daleks to carry out.
This time they could achieve their goals at a point where the Doctor and the Time Lords aren't able to stop them.
And apart from that doesn't the time war change the lives of the past Doctors too? So now the earlier incarnations of the Doctor have the memory of turning up and sending Gallifrey into a parallel universe to end the Time War? So by the time the forth Doctor is sent to destroy the Daleks, again he may choose not to do so, but this time he's aware that it's going to result in the time war.
Quote from: JamesC on 27 December, 2013, 08:13:51 AM
And apart from that doesn't the time war change the lives of the past Doctors too? So now the earlier incarnations of the Doctor have the memory of turning up and sending Gallifrey into a parallel universe to end the Time War? So by the time the forth Doctor is sent to destroy the Daleks, again he may choose not to do so, but this time he's aware that it's going to result in the time war.
No - the Doctors in the 50th specifically stated that due to the time stream being disrupted, the older doctors would not retain any memory of these events. Which makes a mess of RTD's Davidson/Tennant crossover, but that could be explained away quite easily if necessary.
Ain't no thread like a Who-fight thread.
I have always liked it that Doctor Who is not too hung up on continuity. I think they have always assumed that most of the viewers have only a recent memory of what has happened and there is no need to get hung up on things that happened in stories decades ago.
I think one of the DW people summed it up once by saying they would never let continuity get in the way of a good story and that the people who care about that kind of stuff will make up their own explanations to tie things together again anyway.
Quote from: TordelBack on 27 December, 2013, 11:24:38 AM
Ain't no thread like a Who-fight thread.
Shut up, you dick!
(Disclaimer: Tordels is not a dick. He's a fanny.)
Quote from: CheechFU on 27 December, 2013, 01:15:00 AM
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 26 December, 2013, 05:04:51 PM
Quote from: CheechFU on 26 December, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
Moffat had like 3 good ideas ever and just shoehorns them into retarded plots over and over again.
Two things: pretty much every writer ever recycles the same plot again and again.
And also - do not use the 'R' word as pejorative, it does you no credit.
Thanks taking time out of your busy Christmas schedule to critique my internet post.
Which is sarcasm, which is what I am using right now.
Keep it up!
That was also sarcasm. Just fyi.
And that bit too.
But you shouldn't let it discourage you from handing out future internet guidance and wisdom. This is definitely sarcasm, there's really no need to bring it to your attention but I want you to know.
You might want to also pay attention to how I used the bold tag there, it was quite subtle, like a ninja checkmate.
Again. A+. Thanks. retard retard.
How very strange.
As Molcher said - consider yourself on a warning.
I watched the episode at my parents' place, interrupted by people wandering about and a miniature schnauzer deciding he needed a wee and then spending ages in the garden. So that might have knocked my opinion of the episode, but I thought it was crap. I really liked the 50th, and I've broadly been quite impressed with Moffat's tenure (albeit disliking his appalling writing for women and the fact his scripts have the emotional clout of a wet rag), but this was just crap. Lots of tell rather than show, plot holes beyond the pale even for Doctor Who, and the most pathetic get-out regarding the regeneration limit that made me think "well, clearly he didn't want to risk anyone else having to solve that particular problem, but he couldn't think of much himself either".
As already noted in this thread, Moffat has precisely the same problem as RTD in that he needs a REALLY good script editor and to give that person a LOT of power. The rumour mill tends to suggest the opposite with Moffat, in that he's a pain to work with, which is a pity. He has a lot of genuinely exciting and clever ideas that gel with a time travel fantasy, and he's capable of great moments. But he too often tries to cram too many things in, tries to be too clever, and loses himself in knots of logic. Here's hoping Capaldi makes a good go of it and has some better material to work with—this episode was neither a great intro for him nor a fitting conclusion for Smith, but there you go. And at least some people here enjoyed it.
Quote from: Trout on 27 December, 2013, 03:51:24 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 27 December, 2013, 11:24:38 AM
Ain't no thread like a Who-fight thread.
Shut up, you dick!
(Disclaimer: Tordels is not a dick. He's a fanny.)
You're American so you won't know this, but "fanny" means something different over here.
I have no real understanding of Who continuity, couldn't care less how many regenerations there are or will be, I just thought it was poor TV.
Just mumbo jumbo typed up and a few appearances of some of the Dr's top enemies and a teary wank regeneration where an aged Dr becomes young again for no reason other than for his final on screen goodbye.
I'm sure some Who fans will explain why I'm wrong but for the Dr to survive on TV it has to appeal to non Who fans and as I dip in and out I find that either I'm very unlucky with the episodes I catch but the pack as much running around waving sonic screwdrivers around loses me.
The nonsense and sentimentality is WHY new Who has found mass appeal. Clearly also what's ostracizing some old Who fans. Personally I don't find it as nonsensical as some. As I find old Who just as nonsensical most of the time. It's charming in both eras.
Frankly I think Moffet has done wonders to fix RTD's mistakes. Mostly in not spending so much time on contemporary Earth. And not dwelling so much on companion's domestic lives. It is unfortunate he doesn't develop some of his more out there ideas more, but he's sort of limited by the format and budget he's working with.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 28 December, 2013, 12:13:43 AM
Frankly I think Moffet has done wonders to fix RTD's mistakes.
But he's doing a lot of the same things RTD did: overblown, over-the-top spectacle combined with populist sentimentality and deus ex machina endings. Moffatt's writing is at times cleverer and more imaginative: RTD's is much more coherent. The idea of the Doctor as cosmic immortal invulnerable supergod has even persisted, contrary to a brief feint in the opposite direction in Moffatt's second season. The difference has become that the casual viewer is struggling with Moffatt's overly-complicated and yet simultaneously underdeveloped plots. Compare recent Moffatt with the watertight genius of 'The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances' - it's like the difference between reading a page of excitably scribbled notes with some good ideas amongst 'em and reading a perfectly crafted short story.
I'll finally be watching this tonight (I recorded it with working Xmas day and promised a friend I'd wait for her to come by to watch it) and I've only taken the briefest of glimpses of comments posted in this thread. It seems a lot of you thought it was bad which might make it work for me. I say this because on watching the 50th Anniversary special the first time around, I was mightily disappointed. When I watched it again with a friend I still found a lot of it to be messy but I couldn't help but feel I had been a little too harsh on it what with the high hopes I had for it, so going into Time of... thinking it's most likely going to be really disappointing for me will probably work in its favour.
I thought it was alright, tied up a few loose ends!!!!
Re-watched it today and kind of enjoyed it; maybe it's because all the disappointment had already been drained out of me, allowing me to watch it without frothing. Or maybe it was the whiskey. It's still no classic but I've seen worse and the 50th was a tough act to follow.
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Call a doctor - I think I may be mellowing...
I agree that the Christmas special was a bit of a mess. The story was confusing and there were so many random elements thrown in that did not really go anywhere.
Matt Smith is not my favourite doctor but the real issue I have with the current setup is the stories - they seem to be overly complicated and not as clever as they think they are.
Have never cared for Dr Who. Watched the Eccleston reboot which was OK.
After that - and I have tried many times - it is so consistently camp and/or childish
that I despair of it. Clips of 2 doctors mugging to the camera about the size of their
screwdrivers? I don't really care.
This is from an adult who reads 2000AD so I prefer to conclude that 2000AD appeals
to all, rather than I am missing out on something worthwhile.
To my twisted mind, Dr Who constantly falls between two stools - is it science fiction or is it a children's programme? When it gets things right (eg., "Midnight" and "Blink") Dr Who is the best thing on telly but that doesn't happen (for me) very often.
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I also don't like the "Messiah Syndrome" aspect of the programme - teaching children to wait for or trust in a saviour is fundamentally disempowering and reinforces the perceived impotence of single, ordinary people to effect any kind of change or possess any kind of authority of their own. (Of course, Dr Who is by no means alone in this regard - most programming reinforces the "importance" of relying on authority figures or authorities for help, permission or validation over self-reliance. Nowadays it seems almost like a Pagan belief or deviant behaviour to deal with things on one's own and that the "proper" thing to do is Call Someone to sort things out for you.)
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Be that as it may, I will continue to watch Dr Who regularly entirely because I never know when the next "Midnight" is coming along.
People always seem to negelect Vincent and the Doctor and I find that ottaly heart breaking. It's in my top five favourite stories of the entire 50 year run. A staggeringly wonderful and tragic depiction of a man with advanced anxiety and manic deppression brought about by a society which doesn't understand autism and dyslexia, two impediments I am sadly endowed with.
Vincent and the Doctor's a good one. But I think its one mistake was trying to stick a sci-fi plot into it. It should have been the first 'pure historical' Doctor Who adventure since Black Orchid IMO. The only sci-fi bit should have been the scenes that take Vincent to the Present.
Personally I dig Matt Smith's Doctor a lot. But then I'm a Patrick Troughton fan and Smith just oozed Troughton.
I think Vincent and the Doctor is a very strong one, although the mental health issues discussed are quite heavy-handededly whitewashed and the ending is typical Curtis on emotional overdrive with *blech* indie rock which won't date well. However I still remember it - which is more than can be said for anything that happened in Series 7... something about Tom Toms.
I really REALLY hope for Capaldi's tenure Moffat either a) leaves or b) hires a decent exec producer to whack him on the balls occasionally. Although he'd probably enjoy that too much.
All I want are good stories well told.
I'm going to come out and say I really enjoyed it. After a while I even stopped looking to the time and thinking "It must take a real drop in a minute seeing as a lot of people didn't particularly rate it" and happily got on with it. The Dr going on the attack with his whole regeneration energy? Well, I can't say I know the rules of his regenerating and I certainly wouldn't tell him I did...
I liked how, right near the end, you see his feet coming up the TARDIS staircase and Clara turns around to see Matt Smith while I'd been expecting Capaldi. I liked a lot of the shots though in this; I even thought the shot of the Dr's silhouette as he walks to the camera with The Silence behind him, working alongside him, was great just for how unexpected it was. Risking gasps of horror here, I'll even admit to preferring it to the 50th Anniversary episode. The show seems to be getting into a comfortable run at the minute, it'll be good to see how the Ben Wheatley intros to the next season move it along.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 December, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
To my twisted mind, Dr Who constantly falls between two stools - is it science fiction or is it a children's programme?
I saw something the other day from Troughton in which he was very clear that doctor who was a family show and was 'escapist Fantasy' and not 'Science Fiction' and although these are not labels some people want the show to have it still holds true.
I have no quarrel or problem with it being a family show or escapist fantasy - but families include clever mums and philosophical dads as well as easily amused kids and easily bored teens. I comprehend the difficulties of getting such a complex mix right and so would never knock Who to the extent that some do and always find something good even in the episodes I don't like. But I don't mind wading through all the mush that seems to be aimed low for the odd episode - or even single scene - that aims high.
What I also should have mentioned is that I am a Capaldi fan. Eccleston fan too, in fact.
Both seem to be highly selective and I will watch them in anything.
Capaldi as The Doctor could be.... well, anything. I'll give it a go...
I'm quite looking forward to see what they'll do with an older Doctor in Who these days, glad they went with an older face.
Don't shoot me, but I liked it, and thought it was enjoyable! Some questions answered and it was funny opening.
My favourite bit was Handles. I want one now.
Really looking forward to Capaldi's tenure as The Doctor.
While I LOVE Handles (Cyberman own). I can't help but think on many pass occasions the Doctor being really REALLY strict about letting Cybertechnology onboard his TARDIS.
Because it can go bad real quick.
Maybe since there was no biological components left he was able to secure poor Handle's tech.
Or more likely they've not bothered following their own logic/continuity.
One of the complaints I have seen about Matt Smith's who is that he never really seemed to be in real danger very often. The constant upping the ante means he can quite easily take on legions of baddies without breaking a sweat. Surely cute cyberman head pets just emasculate the cybermen further?
Not to mention an insane nun with a Dalek in her head.
Anyone remember Kroton? He became the first Cyberman companion before this modern trend of undressing populare foe's began and the Cybermens menace was still retained.
Aren't you confusing Who with 'Red Dwarf'?
:P
This chap.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/60/Kroton01.JPG/180px-Kroton01.JPG)
I was extracting the urine dude. ;)
The lack of a bad guy has been fatal to my enjoyment of the last few Who episodes.
They've been about the glory of the Doctor, not an actual story about him overcoming a plot and/or villain.
He needs a Davros, a Master, an Omega, a Weing Chang, a Meddling Monk, a Celestial Toymaker a... whatever. Without this, any episode is a half-shadow of what it could and should be.
Doctor Who is the archetypal freak of the week programme and it should work within this confine. The occasional wandering from the path is good, but straying into something that is about the character of the Doctor both demans the quality of the programme and ruins the central mystique of its main character.
As such, I fear the programme is on the road to ruin unless the Capaldi error makes a prompt return to battling bad guys.