The allegations about Warren Ellis' behaviour that have been on social media for the last few weeks have now reached the mainstream press:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/women-speak-out-about-warren-ellis-transmetropolitan
There have been an awful lot of these stories. The comics industry seems to have a consistent track record of tolerating and enabling exploitation and abuse.
Scott Allie also. And quite a lot of people going down the "open secret" route, like in other media (see also the latest allegations about Walliams). These people were known arseholes and yet so many turned a blind eye.
Reading through the Guardian piece, these two lines stick out:
QuoteEllis insists that the problem was relationship trouble, "not predatory behaviour"
and
Quoteit appears he was maintaining at least 19 relationships simultaneously at one point in 2009.
None of them knew about the others, natch.
The Comic Book Legal Defence Fund (CBLDF) also seems to have been ignoring the behaviour of its Exec Director:
http://www.tcj.com/no-oversight-leads-to-a-history-of-sexual-misconduct-and-bullying-at-the-cbldf/
The Comics Journal also managed to make a hash of reporting these allegations and made light of them at the time, so its an industry-wide problem for publishers, creators and the comics press (such as it is).
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 13 July, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
Scott Allie also. And quite a lot of people going down the "open secret" route, like in other media (see also the latest allegations about Walliams). These people were known arseholes and yet so many turned a blind eye.
I note that Image have taken down their hagiographic and ridiculous "An Oral History if the Warren Ellis Forum" where many of the creators who now admit that Ellis' behaviour was an open secret, prostate themselves before him and launch into nausea-inducing tributes.
It has aged like milk, but here's a cached version for those who want to read Kieron Gillen et al overlook the exploitation that was apparently rife:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:X_ciXNjOkYMJ:https://imagecomics.com/features/an-oral-history-of-the-warren-ellis-forum-part-i+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Heidi MacDonald: The other very important thing about the WEF was just that there were women there. It wasn't equal, but women were very common and were allowed to speak. And I remember there was even a special thread that was just for women—men could read it—and like, I would go in there and post about makeup, you know?
Kieron Gillen: As far as comic spaces circa 2000 went, the WEF was an accepting and welcoming place for women, and that speaks for people who were there, the creators who came out of there, and the work we do.
Oh my. Mind you, the Guardian piece does suggest that women moderating the forum made it a broadly safe space. The main problem is they weren't safe from Ellis himself.
The Guardian piece seems to seriously understate the allegations about Ellis.
Might have been nice for the Guardian to commission a women to write the piece, but, well... sigh.
I agree. It's also not a good piece of journalism, in my opinion.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 13 July, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
Quoteit appears he was maintaining at least 19 relationships simultaneously at one point in 2009.
None of them knew about the others, natch.
Got a regular Alex P. Keaton on our hands here.
Testimonals from some of the women involved https://www.somanyofus.com/
A better article that covers Ellis and others that Andy Diggle tweeted earlier:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/warren-ellis-cameron-stewart-and-the-storm-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-roiling-the-comic-book-industry
A few things occur to me reading through some of these articles. Not as justifications or explanations, just as observations and thoughts.
Quite a bit of this dates back to the nineties, it seems. My recollection of comics during that decade is of one that was flirting disturbingly at times with puerile sexuality of a kind that was actually quite commonplace. The seedy 'top shelf' magazines had migrated to lower shelves and morphed into titles like FHM.
A lot of the female characters in comics at the time conformed to highly sexualised archetypes. Marvel ran a 'swimsuit' issue of X-men for instance, the first issue of Lee's FF for Heroes Reborn featured Sue Richards in a powerfully submissive pose.
Even Tooth itself was not immune to the influence. Remember the 'sex' issue? Much of the early Dante strips could be seen as overtly and exploitatively sexualised. As for "Space Girls", well, the less said the better. Not to mention the rampant homophobia of "Big Dave."
This is without going anywhere near the sort of masculine culture that has found a different outlet on the internet these days with the INCEL movement where the 'involuntary' part could perhaps be easily remedied with a bit of appropriate education and guidance (okay, maybe 'easily' is the wrong word ...).
As I say, I'm not trying to 'justify' behaviour. Then again perhaps it is worth thinking of it as a cautionary tale. How will our behaviour be judged in a few years time?
I think the point women are making is that this is endemic throughout media, and enough's enough. This isn't about comics, but about men getting into power, and then taking advantage of women through a mix of coercion, gaslighting, and worse. And, yes, the comics industry in terms of its output was arguably more generally toxic and hostile back then for women; but the point today is that lessons still haven't been learned, and there are plenty of lessons to learn.
This is, in part, why I bang on all the bloody time about representation in things like Judge Dredd. No, having more female judges won't fix the world. But it would in that strip normalise women. Then you do the same in other strips. Simultaneously, you normalise women creators in the comic—something the editorial team seems to be trying very hard to do.
Little things: take action: Big things: take action. And if there's no direct action you can take, support those who need support.
I'm no saint, and would certainly not enjoy being judged against my more immature behaviors in interpersonal relationships of the past, but it would seem odd to write all of this off as something that happened in another time and in a different society. Because:
(https://i.imgur.com/JXtoDRI.png)
and
(https://i.imgur.com/eCxaE3b.png)
If you read their article, the call is not for punishment, but for acknowledgement of wrongs done, and of an acceptance that change would be beneficial.
Exactly. This isn't the dim and distant past, it's happening now.
When you read the full story about Scott Allie, it's basically the same. Back in 2015, a statement was issued (https://www.comicsbeat.com/dark-horse-president-mike-richardson-releases-statement-on-harassment/). People knew about his problems—they just weren't vocal. He carried on. Dark Horse carried on. Only now have they fully severed ties (and creators like Mignola have confirmed they believe the accusers).
Elsewhere, we now see Walliams had—possibly has—a thing for very young women, including having them in his dressing room, which is not remotely appropriate. And so on. And so on. None of this is normal behaviour, and none of it is OK. I'm glad it's being called out, and I hope things do change.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 July, 2020, 07:30:24 PM
... but it would seem odd to write all of this off as something that happened in another time and in a different society. ...
If you read their article, the call is not for punishment, but for acknowledgement of wrongs done, and of an acceptance that change would be beneficial.
My apologies if it comes across as writing off the behaviour as purely historical. As you quite rightly say, there is behaviour that has continued until very recently and there is quite probably just as much that is still ongoing but not yet reported.
What I am suggesting is that what needs to be reflected on is how the formative culture might be implicated. Change is desperately needed to be sure. I'm also not so sure that society is that different at present.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 13 July, 2020, 02:23:07 PM
Kieron Gillen: As far as comic spaces circa 2000 went, the WEF was an accepting and welcoming place for women, and that speaks for people who were there, the creators who came out of there, and the work we do.
The Kieron Gillen in that article must be a different Kieron Gillen from this one:
QuoteThese testimonies carry huge impact, in detail and scale. The site itself is unlike anything I've seen in terms of contextualizing, providing resources, answering likely questions and What Next. Please put aside time to read and think about this.
https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/1282700693510541314 (https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/1282700693510541314)
It must be embarrassing when they are confused with each other.
The question with Ellis is if people knew and said nothing. That is definitely the case with Allie.
Quote from: CalHab on 13 July, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
A better article that covers Ellis and others that Andy Diggle tweeted earlier:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/warren-ellis-cameron-stewart-and-the-storm-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-roiling-the-comic-book-industry
That really is a chilling article and I can think of examples not even included there, so Brian Wood springs immediately to mind as another high profile figure with similar accusations raised against him, following a simialr pattern.
I remenmber when Eddie Berganza was finally fired by DC it was seen as a watershed moment by some, a chance for genuine, systemic change. Alas the more that comes to light, the more that is clear that this was not the case. Is it naive to hope that this time the change might run deeper? I worry that it probably is.
I'm reading that now, and the linked articles. Quite a lot of "I never knew about power imbalance" from smart men who without doubt do know about (and abuse it), and more than a smattering of getting drunk and using that as an excuse for, at best, sexual harassment. The problem is, people know about the latter, because it's done openly. That people—sorry, that men—get away with this for so long within the industry (and others) is just appalling.
It does feel like this time, things are different. But we've been here before.
Quote from: CalHab on 13 July, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
A better article that covers Ellis and others that Andy Diggle tweeted earlier:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/warren-ellis-cameron-stewart-and-the-storm-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-roiling-the-comic-book-industry
"become a member to read this story - monthly, annual, give more" without paying, what does it say?
DC pulls Warren Ellis' Death Metal story:
https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/dc-pulls-warren-elliss-death-metal-story-following-series-of-allegations/
Warren Ellis reportedly leaving Netflix's Castlevania after next season:
https://www.cbr.com/warren-ellis-not-return-future-castlevania-seasons/
Marvel, DC and Dark Horse will no longer tolerate sexual abusers by cutting all ties with accused writers & artists:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/comic-book-industry-reckons-abuse-claims-i-dont-want-happen-anyone-1305217
Quote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 01 August, 2020, 06:48:29 PM
Marvel, DC and Dark Horse will no longer tolerate sexual abusers by cutting all ties with accused writers & artists:
That Dark Horse statement would have had a lot more credibility if they hadn't kept Scott Allie on their books for
years after multiple credible accusations of despicable behaviour came to light.
Yeah, but now they totally really care. Or something. (Or: they realise they at this point can no longer get away with turning a blind eye. It was disappointing to see Mignola admit as much, although at least he himself hasn't been directly been accused of any such atrocious acts. I can live without Ellis books, but I'd hate to get rid of all my Mignola collections.)
Hadn't heard about Scott Allie before, though I do see that the reaction of Dark Horse to the October 2015 was "In this particular case, action was taken immediately". This action seems to be a job title change from Editor-in-Chief of Dark Horse Comics to Executive Senior Editor before the end of 2015. Neither title means too much to me so I don't know if that means he was promoted, demoted or shuffled sideways.
In short, he was an arsehole for years, and everyone knew it. The sheer level of arseholery (to the point of sexual assault) was perhaps not evident, but people knew and did fuck-all about it (https://graphicpolicy.com/2020/06/26/hellboys-mike-mignola-and-dark-horse-founder-mike-richardson-comment-on-the-recent-scott-allie-revelations-rinse-repeat/). Read into it what you will, but basically no-one comes out of this well at DH, with the possible exceptions of Stewart, Arcudi (whose Twitter has since been taken down over this) and Davis.