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Messages - The Legendary Shark

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1
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 09:06:42 PM »

So, to Hell with the victims? It was too complicated a task to protect them? I'm not buying that.

Just because someone is educated and paid does not make them responsible, infallible or, indeed, even competent - again as this incident clearly demonstrates.

Baldwin pulled the trigger. Sure, he was handed an incorrectly loaded weapon by an armourer who seems to have been incompetent (as well as trained and paid), and so the armourer bears the brunt of the responsibility, but Baldwin pulled the trigger. I'm not saying he (Baldwin) must be prosecuted, I'm saying that this incident, isolated though it is, highlights a need for actors pulling triggers to be competent, responsible and involved.


2
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 08:41:34 PM »

Films are a collaborative effort, nobody should be expected to do everything.


Hence the shared responsibility.


But how? By firing it into the air? At which point you have ruined the take and they need to reset the gun again.


Actor and armourer work on setting up the weapon together before the scene is shot? Actor learns to tell the difference between blanks and live rounds? I'm not a fan of the ad-hoc, "oh, the scene's about to start, maybe I should check this thing now at the worst possible moment" scenario you suggest. There are myriad ways in which such procedures could be worked into a (probably already wide-ranging) production schedule.


3
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 07:33:58 PM »

I think that's an over-simplification.

To put a statist spin on it, people do not need to be experts on cars to drive a car but they do need a driving license, people do not need to be experts on gas boilers to install a gas boiler but they do need to be certificated to install them - so perhaps actors required to fire guns should be licensed also, or at least trained to a sufficient standard.

To me, the two major poles of this argument seem to be that a) the armourer bears sole responsibility (Jim's position, I think - I don't want to put words in your mouth so please accept my apologies if I've misunderstood) and b) armourer and actor share the responsibility, which is my position.

There is no need to go straight to the extreme of demanding that everyone become an expert at everything they intend to do but, especially when another life is in potential jeopardy (in this case the actor who was shot), some level of proficiency would seem to be in order. The argument "how was he supposed to know, he's only an actor?" holds no water for me. I'm a campsite handyman and gardener's assistant with no special training or in-depth knowledge but I know that guns are dangerous, even toy guns, and should never be taken lightly.


4
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 05:35:47 PM »

That's a false equivalence - you're comparing the pilot, who has responsibility for the 'plane and the safety of the passengers ("Is the aircraft I'm responsible for safe?"), with the passenger, whose only responsibility is personal ("do I want to trust my life to this airline?").

The person holding the gun is responsible, as TJM's post demonstrates. Had the muppet with the water pistol been shot at, his defence could never be, "well, the guy in the toy shop's an expert on toys and told me this water pistol was safe so the sentry had no right to shoot at me." A gun is a gun and demands respect from everyone who handles it.

5
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 04:48:27 PM »

I'm arguing the point because I believe in personal responsibility. If an expert handed me a gun, assured me it was safe and then told me to shoot somebody with it, I'd check that gun first. I hope you would too, if only to prove the expert right.

And yes, I'd check scaffolding too, at least give it a shake and keep an eye out for faults. Just blindly trusting people is not always the best policy - as the case we are discussing demonstrates.


6
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 02:52:03 PM »

The pilot is not an aviation engineer, just as the actor is not an armourer, but the pilot is expected to check the 'plane before flying it just as the actor (the person pulling the trigger), in my view, is expected to check the weapon before firing it even if it was handed over by the best armourer in the world.

Given the number of films/shows in which guns are used, it's impressive how few incidents like this happen. Still, one is too many so an extra layer of safety (the actor checking the gun) would be pointless ~99.99% of the time but still good practice in order to try and get that pointlessness down to 99.999%.

Further, I don't say that the armourer is blameless in this case, far from it, but neither is the actor.


7
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 12:23:01 PM »

If I get on a plane, I assume that both the pilot and co-pilot are capable of getting the plane off the ground, keeping it on course to its intended destination, and getting it back on the ground without killing everyone. It's really not an unreasonable assumption.


Pilots are expected to check their aircraft before take off, even if it's just come out of the maintenance hangar after being worked on by expert aviation engineers.


8
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 12:19:51 PM »

...why would you expect a weapon to be the genuine article?


Why would you expect a mix-up to be impossible? All the situation requires is a day's (or even half a day's) training for any actor expected to "fire a gun."

9
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 12:11:21 PM »

And the actor being handed the gun should always assume that the person handing it to them is a human being capable of making mistakes.


10
Off Topic / Re: Real life accidents on film/tv sets
« on: 29 November, 2021, 10:20:35 AM »

This is not the same thing as being handed a prop weapon that has been declared safe by the person whose job it is to certify a weapon as safe to handle.


I grew up around guns (mainly shotguns and airguns), and being handed a gun and told that it's safe is no excuse. The person who is going to pull the trigger is, in my view, entirely responsible for making sure the weapon is safe. (Checking the load and firing a couple of test shots at an inanimate target would suffice - even if this had to be done under close supervision.)


11
Off Topic / Re: Threadjacking!
« on: 22 November, 2021, 09:50:00 PM »


12
Off Topic / Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« on: 20 November, 2021, 02:34:03 PM »

Doesn't really matter when you're being smothered. Whether it's Love the silverback's hairy bum or a Love is... snuggly pillow, the result is ultimately the same.


13
Film & TV / Re: Current TV Boxset Addiction
« on: 20 November, 2021, 12:34:04 PM »

If, like me, you've ever lain awake at night fretting over how Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) might look if Quentin Tarantino ever got his hands on it then fret no more and throw your eyeballs at the undiluted arseomeness that is Marvel's Hit-Monkey.

14
Off Topic / Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« on: 20 November, 2021, 12:10:03 PM »

I don't think anyone would object to Jeremy Clarkson being smothered by love...


15
Off Topic / Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« on: 18 November, 2021, 04:25:20 PM »

Well, that frog died and nobody laughed.

I wish you'd all get back to the fishy puns - they were kraken me up.


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