Prog 1801 Green Death On The Red Planet

[Dark Jimbo]

Gonna have to look up some acronyms though. What's a SOV?

Short for soviet - a derogatory term for the Russians of East Meg 1 and 2.

I'm kind of hoping things will pick up a bit as these stories move on because I've gotta tell ya guys, I'm far from being won over at the moment. ABC Warriors(and Dredd to a degree) are the exceptions.

Grey Area ends in 1803, and I think we're getting Low Life and Simping Detective in place of that and the Terror Tales from 1804 onward. I do think GA was a bit of a weird choice to run at a time when we're more likely than at any time since 1995 to be getting an influx of new readers to the prog. It does what it does well enough but it's hardly likely to set the world on fire and engender a lifelong loyalty to the House of Tharg. Dan Abnett really seems to be phoning it in lately.

[SmallBlueThing]

(cont) boy, did i feel foolish. The man is a genius, and long may he put brush or whatever to paper or screen. But- in a prog recently featuring clint langley, chris western and edmund bagwell- all of whom are masters of 'realistic' 'detail', culbard will always take some getting used to.

All i will say to the person who kicked this off: go check out 'at the mountains of madness', published by self made hero, £14.99. At the end of that, you'll get it.

SBT

[SmallBlueThing]

GAH! Tordleback and Dark Jimbo- get your big faces out of my (cont)!

SBT

[TordelBack]

Oh cruel fate, to be the meat in a small blue sandwhich.

[Dark Jimbo]

  It's dark and scary in here. Hold me, Tord, and tell me everything's going to be alright.

[I, Cosh]

You appear to be confusing detail with quality.

As it happens I'm a bit bemused at all the gushing over this Culbard chap myself. I really liked the splash pages in both episodes but find the lack of backgrounds in the majority of panels a real turn off. Jim mentioned Kev Walker's stripped back style and I don't think this is in anything like the same league. Enjoying the story so far, although the religion/climate change analogy may become grating.

I didn't like this week's Dredd story much. I think I'm experiencing a sort of childish peevishness at having my expectations overturned that Wagner had plans for Dolman. Which isn't really Mike Carrol's fault but there you go. The misprinting was a bit of an annoyance: I'm not a fan of Holden's art but I'd still prefer to see it as originally intended.

ABCs was as lacking in fun as it has been since Shadow Warriors. I'm looking forward to seeing the promised new art style but not to reading the story.

The Terror Tale was alright. Smith's wonderful atmospherics and non-endings work well in a longer form story like Cradlegrave but not so well in this short format that really demands something punchy.

Quite enjoyed Grey Area but think it's the stiffness in the art which is the problem rather than anything about a talky episode in itself. I feel a bit bad to keep going on about this as it's clear that Carter has worked on this aspect and the posing of figures has visibly improved since Necrophim. I like a strip like this which has the potential for different types of story.

Overall: meh.

[Jim_Campbell]

Jim mentioned Kev Walker's stripped back style and I don't think this is in anything like the same league.

I wasn't making a comparison between the two, merely observing that Kev had explicitly stated that he thought simplifying his style would save him a lot of time, and that this proved not to be the case. I brought it up to illustrate my point that simpler ≠ easier.

Cheers

Jim

[gufnork]

Jim mentioned Kev Walker's stripped back style and I don't think this is in anything like the same league.

I wasn't making a comparison between the two, merely observing that Kev had explicitly stated that he thought simplifying his style would save him a lot of time, and that this proved not to be the case. I brought it up to illustrate my point that simpler ≠ easier.

Cheers

Jim

That's a fair point of course but might the time issue be as much to do with lack of familiarity in a more simplistic style as much as anything else? Trying to do anything that you're less familiar with is bound to take longer, isn't it?

[gufnork]

Short for soviet - a derogatory term for the Russians of East Meg 1 and 2.

Ah, of course. Thanks for that.

Grey Area ends in 1803, and I think we're getting Low Life and Simping Detective in place of that and the Terror Tales from 1804 onward...

I think the fact that it's an Anthology is why I'm still more likely to continue getting 2000ad than not. The thought of missing some great new story(or new to me at least) may just be too much to bear.

[Jim_Campbell]

That's a fair point of course but might the time issue be as much to do with lack of familiarity in a more simplistic style as much as anything else? Trying to do anything that you're less familiar with is bound to take longer, isn't it?

Not really, no. The plain fact is that you just cannot fudge anything in a sparse, open style with minimal rendering. It all has to be spot on in the layout, the composition and the actual drawing ability.

I was fascinated to see some of David Mazzucchelli's pencils reproduced in a TPB of Batman: Year One. I'd assumed that his loose, brushy style (which was widely slated at the time, as I recall) was mostly done in the inking, but it's not, it's all right there in the pencils. John Byrne has commented that people would be amazed to see Mike Mignola's pencils, for the sheer amount of detail he draws but doesn't ink.

Don't get me wrong: there are plenty of artists with elaborate finishing styles who are phenomenal artists, but there is a school of thought, particularly prevalent amongst comic fans for some reason, that equates surface detail with ability to draw and has given some pretty poor artists careers far more lucrative than they had any right to expect!

But, yes, it's a stylistic choice and whether or not you like a certain style is entirely subjective and each person's subjective response to that is entirely valid. As I said, though, what drawing in a simplified style is not, is easy.

Cheers

Jim

[TordelBack]

I can see where gufnork is going alright, just not in relation to Brass Sun.  There are artists who skip backgrounds completely and start getting all iffy about drawing all five fingers and so on, and they can sometimes be artists who have been much more detailed in the past and are obviously trying, not unreasonably, to speed the hell up so that they can feed their families*.  Even so, it can be quite frustrating for the reader who feels they aren't getting the full package they are used to.   

However, I think anyone who has ever tried their hand at drawing will appreciate how much easier is to sketch up a drawing out of hundreds of constantly-adjusting lines, filling in shadow and texture and outline until you get something that resembles what you intended, as compared to conveying an expression or action or scene with just a couple of precisely set black lines and block colour.  And it's the latter that Culbard pulls off panel after panel in Brass Sun. 

As with last week, it's the shot of Wren and her mount that really captivated me this week, an exquisite calligraphy of a thing that radiates warmth, cold, companionship and loneliness in a handful of strokes.  Quite literally magic.


*Not intended to be a reflection on any 2000AD artist in particular, and especially not McMahon or Walker, just a general observation.

[Mister Pops]

Finally got a chance to sit down and have a proper read of this.

The cover and the ABCs: I really should be enjoying a story about big violent robots a lot more, but in the recent run of stories, I'm just not feeling it. It's gotten a bit formulaic for me, not that there's anything wrong with formulaic story-telling, I'm just not that into this formula. Not a big Clint Langley fan. He's technically gifted, but his contributions are getting more and more cliched, with lazy compositions relying too much on 'badass' hero poses. If you read my review of last week's prog, you'll remember that I said I'd seen too many panels like the last ABC panel before. Well now the same sort of thing is on the prog. I appreciate that a new reader would be excited by it, and I'll admit to being fascinated by Langley's digital style the first time i saw it, but it's worn out at this point. I'd like to see some new artists working on ABCs. Has Colin Macniel had a tilt at them yet? That said, I'm interested to see what Langley's new alternative style looks like.

Dredd: The blurry art is a bit dissapointing, but it's not the end of the world, just so long as it doesn't happen regularly. I like PJ's style, and suspect he's more pissed off about it than any of us. Story was OK, I was pleased to see the Post-DoC MC1 explored a bit more after a few progs with perfunctory allusions to it.

Brass Sun: Not as mind-blowing as last week, but still the top thrill for me. If 5 year olds can draw like that then maybe I should just give up. So many nice wee touches. Culbard manages to portray Wren as a brave, thoughtful and capable young lady, despite her not having a single line or thought bubble in the entire installment. Just little touches, like I said, for example the fact that she captured and is now spit-roasting some sorta giant spider. The facial expressions are all spot on too. I particularly like the way Sabin has beady little eyes compared with every other character we've seen.

Grey Area: After an intriguing start, it falls flat. I thought the first part was a bit decompressed, and now apparently there's only one more intallment in this arc? For my money, this series needs to find a good hook or interesting direction sharpish. At least Abnett's not dragging out Sin/Dex, I suppose.

Overall a good prog, not everything was to my taste, but that's anthologies for you. I wonder when we're going to see a letters page with movie talk on it, because, y'know, there's just not enough of that on the forums alone

[Dandontdare]

I like PJ's style, and suspect he's more pissed off about it than any of us

a point that bears repeating - lots of slagging off of the art this week (I swear I'll never buy a prog again 'cos I was so offended by that outrageous pixellation) but take a reality check - Printers error = not the end of the world.

[TordelBack]

I like PJ's style, and suspect he's more pissed off about it than any of us

a point that bears repeating - lots of slagging off of the art this week (I swear I'll never buy a prog again 'cos I was so offended by that outrageous pixellation) but take a reality check - Printers error = not the end of the world.

Hear, hear.  It's a non-event, PJ's art has a clarity that survived pixellation perfectly well.  Stomm happens, printers make mistakes.  We had a professional journal once that had to be reprinted three times - and that only comes out once a year and costs a hell of a lot more than £2.50 or whatever it is now. 

It's not like they forgot to print the whole episode, like in the good old days.

[Proudhuff]

or that olde favourite: pages in the wrong !!