Doctor Who - The Angels Take Manhattan

[LARF]

That should have ended the episode.

BTW - Who has jumped the shark, don't know when, but it's all a bit 'meh' now.

[Leigh S]

I can see why people might criticise Moffatt for his unrealistic dialogue - but thats about the only criticism that Ive seen that RTD wasnt twice as guilty of.  Its pretty atrocious at times, especially the women who are all flirty flirty quipy quipy, fantasy "might be lesbi if youre nice to me" kind of suggesting a quite creepy attitude from the writer stereotypes.

As far as that makes RTDs more real though...  Just heaping a lot of emoting into things doesnt actually emotion make.  And arguing that logic is weaker under Moffatt, when logic took a holiday if it meant someone could cry *even* harder under RTD... And I'm not sure that RTDs kitchen sink style was any more realistic than any era of Who.. possibly less so under the circumstances that the characters found themselves in.

And Torchwood was just atrocious - the idea it was jealous/repressed fans upset that people had sex...  And atrocious isnt a bad thing, except when you think you are a groundbreaking work of genius.

[Professor Bear]

I didn't have a problem with Torchwood characters having sex because they're made up and thus not only will I always be having more sex than them, I won't have to settle for doing it with a Welsh person like they have to.

[Dandontdare]

And Torchwood was just atrocious - the idea it was jealous/repressed fans upset that people had sex...  And atrocious isnt a bad thing, except when you think you are a groundbreaking work of genius.

I have no idea where that shit about about jealous/repressed fans come from! Not that Who fans can't show you twenty flavours of Crazy, I'm just unsure what you mean here. 

Torchwood was simply grown up Who - what could we do with Dr Who ideas if we didn't have to be a children's or "family friendly" (god I hate that term) show?

I can't remember anyone EVER claiming that it was " a groundbreaking work of genius." - where are you getting that from?

[Leigh S]

..... but people (not dr who fans) like to see sex on tv, and that was the point. That many dr who fans couldnt accept characters who fucked each other without emotional connections says more about dr who fans than torchwood the series. .....

SBT

I was what I was referring to, but its a fairly common Torchwood defence to say its prudish fandom objecting on moral rather than rubbish grounds.

As for work of genius, that was certainly the tone I got from the writing, both on Who and Torchwood - like they were a bit drunk on the success of the relaunch and giddy with their own brilliance - see the various confidential type shows at the same time.

[SmallBlueThing]

And having been surrounded by dr who fans since i was fifteen years old- on a personal level (bezzie mate's a hardcore fan) as well as being active in local groups (dwas and otherwise) in various parts of the country between 1985 and 1996  and having met many of the folk who are 'famous in fandom' and some who went on to work on the show in various capacities- i'll stand by my characterisation of those fans! But that's a whoooole other conversation!

SBT

[IndigoPrime]

Torchwood was simply grown up Who - what could we do with Dr Who ideas if we didn't have to be a children's or "family friendly" (god I hate that term) show?

See, I never got that feeling from Torchwood. To me, Torchwood felt more like a 14-year-old's idea of what a grown-up version of Who might be like, but it certainly wasn't a mature and adult series for the most part. It was just Who with swearing and fucking.

[M.I.K.]

Ditto. Like they'd cut out the middle man and went straight to the internet fan fiction.

[judgefloyd]

No more Amy Pond!

noooooooooooo

Ah well, it was a decent, emotional send-off, only slightly spoiled by the execrable River Fucking Song.


[/quote/]

I am not alone.  I can't stand RiverSong She reminds me of several of my ex girlfriends

[Professor Bear]

My one hope to avoid eventually putting my boot through the tv is that because River has to get older/younger, they might recast her with an actress I can stand.

[Richmond Clements]

My one hope to avoid eventually putting my boot through the tv is that because River has to get older/younger, they might recast her with an actress I can stand.

Shut your cake hole! She's wonderful!

[shaolin_monkey]

My one hope to avoid eventually putting my boot through the tv is that because River has to get older/younger, they might recast her with an actress I can stand.

Shut your cake hole! She's wonderful!

Seconded!  She's sexy as hell!