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Author Topic: Carano, Whedon and all that  (Read 4538 times)

Mardroid

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #45 on: 14 February, 2021, 02:13:37 PM »
Well, she should do wrestler movies then. And yes, I called euphemistically. Because she objectively is. And in (most) movies of today, especially Hollywood, handsome look is required. Being fat does not look well on the screen when you are required to run, jump, roll over etc. This is primary reason why I hate xXx 2.

Do you realize you are using silly arguments? Like, Arnie should only have done body-building movies, by your logic. And The Good, The Bad & The Ugly must be bad because not everyone's handsome? And people you consider overweight shouldn't do anything dynamic on screen? Of all the reasons to dislike XXX^2, you are blaming body shape?

I guess we can all rest easy that you're not in charge of talent scouting for any movie companies.

Totally agree with this.

I don’t agree with most of Gina’s posted views, although I was very much in the ‘don’t fire her for having them brigade’... until that last ridiculous statement comparing her experience to Jew in the Holocaust, etc. Yeah, she went way too far there.

But from a physical point of view I welcome the fact they cast someone who isn’t the usual slim stereotypical view of female beauty. (That makes it seem like I don’t think she is attractive. That’s not what I mean, in fact I think she looks quite lovely. Just not sure how else to phrase what I mean there.) And I thought she fit the role of an ex rebel shock trooper well in that regard. And yes, got the impression, like you that much of her size is muscle not fat. I wouldn’t even describe her as fat, although she’s a whole lot of woman.   :-[

I hope a lot more women (or men for that matter, although there isn’t as much bias with them) of all body types and shapes are employed in more mainstream roles in future.

I didn’t even mind her acting. It was a bit wooden, but for the role I thought it was okay.

So... I liked the character. Mixed view considering her firing, but it’s her own fault. Totally understandable why they did it.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #46 on: 14 February, 2021, 03:39:20 PM »
Yes. All that. The point is, she’s not fat. She has an average BMI, which means from a wrestling standpoint she’s reasonably slender. (By contrast, many female rugby players are technically overweight, even though they’re mostly muscle.) The problem is, we’ve been trained to think rakes are normal. People talk of “plus size” models, who in reality are just slightly on the right side of not having an actual health condition.

With men, we appear to be in a similar space but with muscle. I saw someone recently refer to Sam in Quantum Leap as “fat”. Back then, he was considered quite dishy. But today. you must have zero body fat and look chiselled. None of this stuff is healthy. All of it is toxic male gaze. And although there needs to be a level of correlation between role and look, I’m fucking sick of every male lead needing to look like a bodybuilder and every female lead like a stick with boobs.

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repoman

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #48 on: 14 February, 2021, 04:30:25 PM »
Michelle Trachtenberg says there was a rule on the Buffy set that "Joss isn't allowed to be alone in a room with Michelle again". 

Christ!  And there was me thinking the worst thing he ever did was create the character of Dawn.

von Boom

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #49 on: 14 February, 2021, 05:34:47 PM »
I've never seen The Mandalorian so I can't say anything about Carano's acting. I don't use twitter (anymore) so her comments are all new to me but reprehensible nonetheless. What I find interesting are the views of certain groups of people.

On this board, where one of the primary topics of conversation is about a law enforcer for one of the most brutal and authortarian regimes ever conceived of, is made up of people whose general mindset seems to be a more liberal and inclusive world. Whereas another board I frequent, where a primary topic is about a free roaming and liberal barbarian, seems to think Carano has been unfairly sacked and proof of cancel culture.

I wonder if there isn't a PhD thesis in there somewhere.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #50 on: 14 February, 2021, 05:57:54 PM »
I guess with Dredd the issue is whether you see it as a warning or something you’d like to occur in the real world. Also, people can like drama of a certain ilk without wanting it to come true. See also things like The Man in the High Castle.

Funt Solo

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #51 on: 14 February, 2021, 06:03:49 PM »
On this board, where one of the primary topics of conversation is about a law enforcer for one of the most brutal and authortarian regimes ever conceived of, is made up of people whose general mindset seems to be a more liberal and inclusive world.

I think it's a bit like enjoying Starship Troopers - anyone genuinely going "yay - squash the bugs!" has entirely missed the point of the movie. We can enjoy it at multiple levels - big kapowee space battles, that ridiculous drill sergeant pinning the guy's hand with a casual dagger throw to prove a point - and also as a subversive warning against fascism.

Part of the genius of Dredd is in the OTT nature of the strip, but also in the inherent dichotomy. He must uphold the law so that every citizen can live in peace ... under the harsh rule of the law that restricts their freedoms. You can tell any story in there - a story where he's the hero, saving innocents from nefarious villains. Or you can make the citizens the heroes fighting against the oppression of the Judges.

You can see some writers missing the point when they have Dredd summarily execute people just to prove a point. This happens rarely, but it's like a sudden irregular heart rhythm for the character, because it breaks the rules of why it's okay to be a fan of Judge Dredd the comic.

My dad missed this subversion in the comic (when I was growing up) and was just worried because he thought I was a fan of a violent thug of a law enforcer, and was worried about all the phallic, thrusting imagery. Give him his dues - he wasn't quite getting Dredd because he wasn't reading it, but he was actually quite spot-on about the artistic semi-obsession with dickery pokery...



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wedgeski

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #52 on: 14 February, 2021, 06:49:52 PM »
You can see some writers missing the point when they have Dredd summarily execute people just to prove a point. This happens rarely, but it's like a sudden irregular heart rhythm for the character, because it breaks the rules of why it's okay to be a fan of Judge Dredd the comic.
Nicely put!

milstar

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #53 on: 14 February, 2021, 10:38:07 PM »
Well, she should do wrestler movies then. And yes, I called euphemistically. Because she objectively is. And in (most) movies of today, especially Hollywood, handsome look is required. Being fat does not look well on the screen when you are required to run, jump, roll over etc. This is primary reason why I hate xXx 2.

Do you realize you are using silly arguments? Like, Arnie should only have done body-building movies, by your logic. And The Good, The Bad & The Ugly must be bad because not everyone's handsome? And people you consider overweight shouldn't do anything dynamic on screen? Of all the reasons to dislike XXX^2, you are blaming body shape?

I guess we can all rest easy that you're not in charge of talent scouting for any movie companies.

Totally agree with this.

I don’t agree with most of Gina’s posted views, although I was very much in the ‘don’t fire her for having them brigade’... until that last ridiculous statement comparing her experience to Jew in the Holocaust, etc. Yeah, she went way too far there.

But from a physical point of view I welcome the fact they cast someone who isn’t the usual slim stereotypical view of female beauty. (That makes it seem like I don’t think she is attractive. That’s not what I mean, in fact I think she looks quite lovely. Just not sure how else to phrase what I mean there.) And I thought she fit the role of an ex rebel shock trooper well in that regard. And yes, got the impression, like you that much of her size is muscle not fat. I wouldn’t even describe her as fat, although she’s a whole lot of woman.   :-[

I hope a lot more women (or men for that matter, although there isn’t as much bias with them) of all body types and shapes are employed in more mainstream roles in future.

I didn’t even mind her acting. It was a bit wooden, but for the role I thought it was okay.

So... I liked the character. Mixed view considering her firing, but it’s her own fault. Totally understandable why they did it.

Yes. All that. The point is, she’s not fat. She has an average BMI, which means from a wrestling standpoint she’s reasonably slender. (By contrast, many female rugby players are technically overweight, even though they’re mostly muscle.) The problem is, we’ve been trained to think rakes are normal. People talk of “plus size” models, who in reality are just slightly on the right side of not having an actual health condition.

With men, we appear to be in a similar space but with muscle. I saw someone recently refer to Sam in Quantum Leap as “fat”. Back then, he was considered quite dishy. But today. you must have zero body fat and look chiselled. None of this stuff is healthy. All of it is toxic male gaze. And although there needs to be a level of correlation between role and look, I’m fucking sick of every male lead needing to look like a bodybuilder and every female lead like a stick with boobs.

I hate to write this comment as we digressed a bit much from the topic. Maybe to create a thread solely dedicated to Ms Carano. Anyway, when I see her in Deadpool, her bulky appearance inclines me to think that not all is muscle. And is fairly known that men muscle grow bigger than when it's women in question. And when it comes to overweight and being thin as toothstick, both to me are - I'll be blunt here -  gross, and unhealthy. I recall when some people were angry at Adele when she decided to loose weight.
And I am saying as someone who is a bit tired of seeing hot leads, just to fullfull audience's kicks. Whether it's a woman or man. Men want to see a slim chick in tight outfit, but who is also badass, while women look for the hot guy in; and if he appears bare chested (with muscles). But watching a person, scrawny or overweight acting like a superhero - that I can't swallow.
As for her comments, I gotta credit to her for not going extreme. I mean, she hasn't said anything that you might hear out of some far right politician, or extremist, like Jared Taylor, Laura Towler or Ann Marie Waters (just an example). That is pure deep end side.
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

Funt Solo

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #54 on: 14 February, 2021, 11:16:13 PM »
I, like, totally get that. I have the same problem when I see someone who's an intellectual lightweight try to punch above their level. Everyone else is like "logical point, sensible counter-argument" and they're like "fatties make me feel icky".

It just grosses me out.
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Mister Pops

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #55 on: 14 February, 2021, 11:19:43 PM »
...Men want to see a slim chick in tight outfit, but who is also badass...

I had never realized this, thank you for telling me what I'm supposed to think. There's me thinking women are people, but it turns out they're just objects to fulfill my primitive desires and expectations.

Boy do I feel* silly now.

*Actually not, because only sissies have feelings

You may quote me on that.

milstar

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #56 on: 14 February, 2021, 11:26:27 PM »
I, like, totally get that. I have the same problem when I see someone who's an intellectual lightweight try to punch above their level. Everyone else is like "logical point, sensible counter-argument" and they're like "fatties make me feel icky".

It just grosses me out.

Yeah, and well, some people are born to whine.

...Men want to see a slim chick in tight outfit, but who is also badass...

I had never realized this, thank you for telling me what I'm supposed to think. There's me thinking women are people, but it turns out they're just objects to fulfill my primitive desires and expectations.

Boy do I feel* silly now.

*Actually not, because only sissies have feelings



Did you really draw only that out of everything I wrote?
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

Mister Pops

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #57 on: 14 February, 2021, 11:29:29 PM »
...Men want to see a slim chick in tight outfit, but who is also badass...

I had never realized this, thank you for telling me what I'm supposed to think. There's me thinking women are people, but it turns out they're just objects to fulfill my primitive desires and expectations.

Boy do I feel* silly now.

*Actually not, because only sissies have feelings



Did you really draw only that out of everything I wrote?

Yes, what did I miss?
You may quote me on that.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #58 on: 14 February, 2021, 11:37:18 PM »
Yeah, and well, some people are born to whine.

There’s some well-known phrase about holes, digging, and the stopping thereof, that I just can’t bring to mind right now…
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Funt Solo

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Re: Carano, Whedon and all that
« Reply #59 on: 15 February, 2021, 12:10:14 AM »
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