Wonder Woman 2017

[Rogue Earthlet]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

Good point. I 'm out.

Yup.

Seems to me everyone in this thread is well aware on problems lots of men are facing. Luckily, not everyone thinks it must be debated because of an action movie that happens to have woman in the title.

Btw. If anyone's interested. Since the cat is out of the bag. I think this is a good article on the topic. Helped me help my dad get someone to talk to. https://www.vice.com/sv/article/jmbnp7/a-stiff-upper-lip-is-killing-british-men-344

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/27/violent-femmes-atomic-blonde-and-hollywoods-new-wave-of-killer-women

[Rogue Earthlet]

One of the things I loved about WW was that the film did not [spoiler]depict the Germans as the bad guys[/spoiler]. They are seen as the victims of war (Ares) as much as anyone. This in a way can stand as a metaphor for the patriarchy which is equally damaging to men and women. This is something that everyone on this forum has acknowledged despite coming to that conclusion in different ways. This is a good thing because I think men have been left out of the gender discussion for too long.

Not everyone agrees with you,

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166119

 Wonder Woman, the Amazon warrior with the golden lasso, bullet reflecting wristbands, magical headdress, non-stop bravery, lightning-quick reflexes, enormous power and good looks, is out on the battle field again, this time in World War I. She fights for the allies against the very, very evil Germans and the God of War, too, and does it in dramatic and thrilling fashion.


That's not the only person who sees Germans as being depicted as baddies. It maybe that different people interpret this differently, but one things sure. Lots of Germans die.

[Rogue Earthlet]

Britain, France and the USA won WW1 without any help from super beings.

Just because it comes hot on the heels of an article about the woeful lack of credit given to Indian soldiers (not conscripts) at Dunkirk, I should point out that Britain, France and the USA were joined by Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the Soviet Union, China, Belgium, Brazil, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Korea and Yugoslavia.  No super beings though.  (and to illustrate the point about lack of credit where it's due, in my fact-checking for this reply I found a few of those who I had no idea had been involved).

Agreed. Soldiers from many countries who fought in WW1 and WW2 are often ignored by the media.

[Dark Jimbo]

Britain, France and the USA won WW1 without any help from super beings.

...I should point out that Britain, France and the USA were joined by Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the Soviet Union, China, Belgium, Brazil, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Korea and Yugoslavia.

You forgot Japan!  Shoddy. 

[Jim_Campbell]

Not everyone agrees with you,

I have no idea what point you think you're making. That movies should only depict men committing acts of violence against other men, and women against women, or that there should be no violence in movies, ever. Which is it?

[Apestrife]

One of the things I loved about WW was that the film did not [spoiler]depict the Germans as the bad guys[/spoiler]. They are seen as the victims of war (Ares) as much as anyone. This in a way can stand as a metaphor for the patriarchy which is equally damaging to men and women. This is something that everyone on this forum has acknowledged despite coming to that conclusion in different ways. This is a good thing because I think men have been left out of the gender discussion for too long.

WW is important because she is a strong female role model for women and men. She is represented as idealistic and flawed which both humanises and empowers her. In this regard she is treated like any other comic book hero. I love how she was depicted in BM v SM - as soon as she appears on screen they recognise her as an equal and show her the respect she deserves as an equal. Her gender is irrelevant only her ability to contribute to the group goal is important. If this is slightly more impressive because she is a woman it's only because there aren't enough women doing this on screen. We can't say that's true for comics in general because in general most comics have recurring strong female characters. Comics do, books do but tv and movies don't. Why is this?

If you pick up the n52 run of Wonder Woman I was talking about, I think you'll find Ares very interesting.

As for the movies. I agree. I think they did a really good job on her. Perhaps even helped thanks to the low scores of the cinema cut of Bm v Sm. She stood out more, and there weren't much coverage of the film (outside click bait negativity). Thus I think there was a lot of buzz that spread word to mouth instead. 

And as you say. In her film she earned it. I was real worried WW1 was too complex for the film maker to pull off, but I think they did a great job. There's something for anyone. Those who who want a good message or two, just wants to see a female kick ass, or how complex a conflict can be. I think alot of character stood out that way, showing how hard it was to find common ground in a war like WW1.

What I really I liked is Diana didn't only inspire, but also knew how to take a step back when needed. Which I think is quite admirable, for someone as her who was brought up as a princess and is strong like no one else. Shows that she's her own person. Also interesting when put together with Batman's battle with his trauma or Superman with his Kansas upbringing. I really like it how there are up and downs to all three of them.

Violence against men (which is on the rise) and men's health issues are things I feel strongly about. I'm not trying to kill any discussion here but trying to discuss in within the context of a movie that goes out of it's way to [spoiler]show men as being equally harmed by aggression and violence [/spoiler] especially with someone who hasn't seen it is derailing this thread.

That article reminded me of  this video. I'm not sure of the context of it - the who's, why's and where's but I always felt it summarised the key issues facing men in a humorous yet poignant way.

https://youtu.be/zZuL_2hUaoI

Haha. Good one. Thoughtful as well.

[Modern Panther]

Not everyone agrees with you,

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166119

Wonder Woman, the Amazon warrior with the golden lasso, bullet reflecting wristbands, magical headdress, non-stop bravery, lightning-quick reflexes, enormous power and good looks, is out on the battle field again, this time in World War I. She fights for the allies against the very, very evil Germans and the God of War, too, and does it in dramatic and thrilling fashion.


That's not the only person who sees Germans as being depicted as baddies. It maybe that different people interpret this differently, but one things sure. Lots of Germans die.

Umm...irony?  A polite attempt at concealing the big twist?  The strange idea that death in war are not always justified and maybe the dead are victims here? I am impressed that you've searched so desperatly for a film review that you think agrees with your shallow views that you reached the Columbia Art College website. Same reviewer says a few paragraphs later...

Screenwriter Allan Heinberg went out of his way to have Trevor explain to Wonder Woman that wars are not all caused by one country but, over the centuries, by all countries. Somehow, some way, everybody is a villain. Politics bring out the worst in people and millions die for that, he said.

The reviewer, Mr Chadwick, a lecturer in film and history, also recommends the movie.

Watch films before you review them, read articles before you decide what they say.  Whiny red pillism plays well in plenty of dank corners of the internet, but the people here tend to not be complete wankers.

[SIP]

This may well be the most irritating thread ever.

[Smith]

I assume you didnt see the Doctor Who thread before?   

[Frank]

I previously stated I'd stop posting here, but as others reply to my posts, I reply to them.

You've stopped replying to mine, buddy.

What's wrong with depicting fantasy violence against fictional characters*? What harm is done?


* in any quantity, justified, entertaining, or otherwise

[Modern Panther]

I assume you didnt see the Doctor Who thread before?   

No, but I've heard about it and am therefore an expert. 

[TordelBack]

This may well be the most irritating thread ever.

It's a microcosm of the modern world: "I have no direct knowledge of a subject, but I've found some people on the internet who say that everyone who does is part of a conspiracy to take away all the things that make me special, so I'm going to uncritically parrot their drivel until I get my way'.

See: Brexit, Trump, climate denialism, MRA, anti-vaxxers, Doctor Who...

[SIP]

He's just making comment after comment without truly paying any attention whatsoever to what people are saying to him. The argument came to an abrupt halt as soon as it was confessed that he hadn't seen the film that he was judging. That's complete ignorance. As such I can't take anything else said as being educated or relevant. He has no credibility.

[Jim_Campbell]

No, but I've heard about it and am therefore an expert.

I think we've all had enough of experts. :-)

[Modern Panther]

Many years ago, we followed and respected people who, it was often believed, were chosen by some sort of devine power.  We raised them to the status of leaders - whist our myths were about those on the next step of the ladder, devine beings.

The 20th century saw the Rise of the Ordinary - individuals who were weren't particulary special, or who were known to be flawed, rose in prominence.  Working class men and women became heroes.  Depressive alcoholics led us in wars.   Our tales become not about Gods, but about supermen - people who actually were special or chosen.

The 21st century is quickly becoming the age of stupid.  Whole populations delight in taking political advice from the side of a bus, ignoring warnings from people who actually are experts, electing sleazy gameshow hosts to decide who gets bombed, screaming abuse at strangers over the internet.  Will the legends of the 21st century be about people who are just capable of making it throught the day?