Some questions about the Judge Dredd universe

[dweezil2]

The flaws in the marketing are the same issue as the overall flaws in the film - the lack of money.

Perhaps, but there's also how you use limited funds. I know quite a few people who were totally turned off by the trailer, which was tonally all over the place, and also helpfully spoiled the ending. By contrast, I recall seeing one – I think it was the Japanese trailer – that had a high-octane edit that felt more like the Carpenteresque film Dredd mostly was. Not that a better trailer would have necessarily made any difference.

The Japanese trailer was so, so much better - actually made the film look exciting. The wide release US/Europe one was pretty wretched - which is weird, considering the rumours about how much they agonised over it. As you say, tonally all over the shop, leaden, unexciting, featured lots of lines of dialogue that - out of context - sounded super cheesy, and gave away too many key plot points (I didn't even realise that Ma Ma being behind the manufacture of Slo Mo was actually supposed to have been a third act twist until I saw the film, as the line revealing it was right there in the trailer).

What's perhaps most crushing is the widespread critical acclaim meant broadly little in terms of take and some of the publications you'd have expected to have been more excited posted some surprisingly middling reviews.

Yep, there's something to this. It seemed to get better reviews in non-genre media or arty farty sites like Little White Lies than sci fi/comic book type places, who didn't really seem to come around to the film until DVD release - especially in the US.

This is a bit of a misconception, as Dredd was reviewed favourably by the majority of the genre mags in the UK.

Starburst-8/10, Sci-Fi Now-4/5, SFX-4.5/5.

Less emphasis on 3D and far more 2D prints would of surely persuaded the cinema going public to give the film a punt, especially with the knowledge that they wouldn't have to fork out extra dosh for 3D?

[radiator]

Maybe I'm thinking more of the big US sites. I can't remember it getting many raves, only moderately favourable notices.

My guess is they didn't know how best to market the film early so that it could be at least moderately successful - like other mid-budget films such as Looper, District 9 or John Wick - and they were surprised by the positive response to the first public screenings, so they panicked and threw more money at the marketing, but it was too late and too ill thought-out to make a difference.

That sounds distinctly possible.

[sheridan]

The Japanese trailer was so, so much better - actually made the film look exciting. The wide release US/Europe one was pretty wretched - which is weird, considering the rumours about how much they agonised over it. As you say, tonally all over the shop, leaden, unexciting, featured lots of lines of dialogue that - out of context - sounded super cheesy, and gave away too many key plot points (I didn't even realise that Ma Ma being behind the manufacture of Slo Mo was actually supposed to have been a third act twist until I saw the film, as the line revealing it was right there in the trailer).

There was something similar with Terminator 2: Judgement Day - if you watch the film (and pretend you don't know anything other than having seen the original) it's quite some time before you realise the T1000 can change its shape (and there are a few nice bits of foreshadowing before the big reveal). 
Also witness The Phantom Menace, and Darth Maul's double-ended lightsabre.  Taken on its own there's a dramatic reveal (thus showing he can duel Obi Wan and Qui Gon at the same time) that works pretty well.  In the real world, however, we'd known the lightsabre was going to be double-ended long before we even had a release date...

[Frank]

How many different variations of the classic suit has Dredd used over the years? I mean regular attire during street patrolling, not space suits and any other special suits. I've seen the one with a raincoat and the one they used in the film from 2012.

There's just one uniform. The 'raincoat'* you mention is a radcloak judges (sometimes) wear to shield them from radiation in the Cursed Earth.

Med judges, Tek judges, SJS, and Control all wear variations on the street judge uniform, but there's no agreed version of what those uniforms look like. Each artist draws them in different (often wildly different) ways.

Same goes for what Megacity buildings look like and where they are. Grant Morrison once had a huge statue that had previously been shown facing onto the Atlantic ocean topple over and destroy the city's West wall (Inferno, prog 850).


* Dredd doesn't mind getting wet (Riders On The Storm, prog 463)

[Steve Green]

Occasionally the early uniform has been used as a plot device.


The main evolution takes place over the first few years, after that it's fairly consistent.


Early Carlos design - small pads, rounded helmet, helmet badge is more like the respirator vent it's supposed to be.

During the Luna-1 episodes the helmet badge starts to fill out.

By the end of the Cursed Earth, pads are larger, helmet is straighter - plain pad is distinct ribs rather than the blocks of later designs.

Generally it settled down after that - Brendan McCarthy went for the flared helmet, and there was a brief addition of the cheek guards from the Stallone film.

The neck rolls of the 2012 popped up in a Leigh Gallagher strip.

[Frank]

Occasionally the early uniform has been used as a plot device.

What I think Steve means is that artists sometimes draw the uniform in the style of earlier artists in flashbacks, to indicate the era in which the story takes place (Colin MacNeil, Blood And Duty, prog 1300). There's no suggestion that these artistic variations represent actual alterations to the physical design of the uniform in the reality of the strip*.

Otherwise, Dredd would be trying out a new version of the uniform on a weekly basis.


* Unless you think that's fun - in which case, knock yourself out

[Steve Green]

I don't.

I mean there have been occasions where it's mentioned that it's an older uniform in the script.

[Steve Green]

2 or 3 I can think of only vague recollections though.

1 where Dredd does a Back to the Future and there's both an early and 'modern' uniform?

Gordon and Gibson's Judgement ghost judge has a MK1 and an earlier uniform?

A character - ex-judge maybe, kept his old uniform and jimps a bit, mention of it being out of date but will pass for current. Think it might have been the star chamberish plotline.

[Steve Green]

[Sandman1]

There's just one uniform. The 'raincoat'* you mention is a radcloak judges (sometimes) wear to shield them from radiation in the Cursed Earth.

Ok, so the cloak/coat they used in the beginning of the comic Judge Dredd: Origins wasn't a raincoat. That's a bummer, it would have fit quite well in a narrative with influences of film noir.

[Richard]

The jimp story was The Edgar Case, progs 1589-95. There's a line something like "the regalia had changed some over the years, but it would do."

[Frank]

A character - ex-judge maybe, kept his old uniform and jimps a bit, mention of it being out of date but will pass for current. Think it might have been the star chamberish plotline.

The Edgar Case, by Wagner and Goddard (1592). I've made the same argument in the past, but only to have fun at the expense of poor Skullmo.

As Skullmo goes on to point out, if we were to treat differing artists' depictions of the uniform as representing actual physically different issues of Justice Department kit, then Dredd is some kind of Beau Brummel, wasting all that time he saves kipping in the sleep machine picking out different outfits every morning.

"Hmmm, I think I'll wear the darling McCarthy with the flares for lunch (prog 560), then change into the sleek tailoring of the Simpson for evening wear (prog 561)."

It's implausible to say the uniform hasn't changed at all over forty years, but like Kubitt says, 'minor details' ... and not tied to different artists' version of the character.

[JOE SOAP]

Ok, so the cloak/coat they used in the beginning of the comic Judge Dredd: Origins wasn't a raincoat. That's a bummer, it would have fit quite well in a narrative with influences of film noir.

They do wear them as raincloaks. Dredd wore the cloak in The Connection - both before and after he went outside city walls.

[JOE SOAP]

As Skullmo goes on to point out, if we were to treat differing artists' depictions of the uniform as representing actual physically different issues of Justice Department kit, then Dredd is some kind of Beau Brummel, wasting all that time he saves kipping in the sleep machine picking out different outfits every morning.

It's like Mk 1 and 2 Lawgivers - it works when it needs to.

Tour of Duty - O Little Town of Bethlehem



Time's Squared

[Frank]

2 or 3 I can think of only vague recollections though.

1 where Dredd does a Back to the Future and there's both an early and 'modern' uniform?

Gordon and Gibson's Judgement ghost judge has a MK1 and an earlier uniform?

Carroll and Sexton's Ghosts (1962-1968) featured one of my favourite pieces of visual storytelling in recent times. The now decrepit villain reflects on a life spent hiding in the shadows, his launch line-up era helmet in the foreground, silently speaking volumes about the passage of time.

What that has in common with the Edgar Case and Blood And Duty examples cited above is that it's being used as a storytelling device, rather than a whimsical bit of fan service. This goes back to Trout and SOAP's point that the details of the strip vary according to the story the creators want to tell.

If using a distinctive previous rendering of the uniform can be used to serve a purpose, then there was some kind of change in the uniform between progs 2 and 108*. If that doesn't suit the storyteller's purpose, then Zombie Dredd of 2120 hasn't changed his clothes in the previous 16 years.


* Changes that include some judges of the period when Justice Department deposed Booth sporting rounded crash helmets with visors and two left shoulder pads (Origins), while the ones who were with Solomon when he pronounced judgement on Booth were wearing the same style of uniform as the Dredd who tells that story in flashback during The Cursed Earth.

The dandyish Goodman decides the more rounded helmets of his youth would flatter his newly rejuved features and has the helmets redesigned for progs 2 to 60, but the ruthless Judge Cal issues straight sided helmets with less rounded eye sockets as part of his dastardly scheme to take over the department - restricting the thoughts and narrowing the vision of his adversaries?