The Political Thread

[JayzusB.Christ]

... and alas sometimes not so tightly defined situations.  Z

Therein lies the problem.  Ethics and legislation are not connected. Fair play to Pat Mills for making me aware of Harry Patch,  the last surviving WW1 Tommy, who claimed that if state leaders have problems with one another,  we should give them guns and let them sort it out themselves. Morally,  it's quite clearly the right thing to do,  even f it isnt even a remotely realistic possibility.

[ZenArcade]

Our leaders play us like fiddles over and over again. Z

[Hawkmumbler]

They aren't my leaders, Z. I lead myself, as scary a thought as that may be.

[ZenArcade]

Unfortunately in most concrete senses they are our leaders.....that's the really scary thought. They may not yet control the few cubic cm between our ears, but I'd say they are going flat out 24/7 on that one. Z

[JayzusB.Christ]

Yep.  And anyone who thinks the West is a haven of free thought should have a listen to this podcast:  http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-40-blitz-radical-thoughts/
It seems there's nothing quite like a crisis to inspire a political leader to crack down on thoughtcrime.  They did it with the rise of Communism, they did it after 9/11 and they're doing it right now.

Which reminds me; before last Wednesday, the only time I'd ever seen a depiction of Mohammed was years ago on South Park.  In the last few days, I've seen loads of them; they're cropping up all over the internet and on TV.  It seems the shootings were not only barbaric but also completely counter-productive.  You would hope religiously-inspired potential murderers would learn from this; but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[ZenArcade]

The purpose of power is power....the purpose of terror is terror. Z

[TordelBack]

It seems the shootings were not only barbaric but also completely counter-productive.  You would hope religiously-inspired potential murderers would learn from this; but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Only counter productive if the objective isn't to simultaneously anger and further marginalise young Muslims, which I suspect is the plan. It's the same game the IRA played: new atrocity = crackdown, abuse and rhetoric = fresh support. And like the predictable buffoons we are the great western public play along, while our press-censoring politicos look sombre.

[JayzusB.Christ]

That is an excellent point, my friend, and one I hadn't really considered before.  Jesus, we're in an even bigger mess than I'd realised.

[ZenArcade]

Somewhere down the line it is incumbent on the young Muslim kids to take the leap of faith which both you and I did. We simply cannot hand feed reality truth forever. Somewhere down the line there has to be an epiphany and a comprehension of what i t is to engage. Z

[JayzusB.Christ]

Not quite sure what you mean there,  Zen. Could you elaborate?

[ZenArcade]

My apologies JBC'S. My last does come across as somewhat disjointed.
I guess what I am trying to say from personal experience of growing up in a pretty hard line republican area of NI where I like many young people in the 80's was subjected to pressures  by pretty radical elements. It was through my upbringing; my peer group and finally through myself that I was able to reject these approaches.
I have no doubt that many young Muslim men and women in Britain, Ireland and through out the West are currently subject to similar pressures, albeit from a different ideology.
The state and society as a whole can rightly attempt to offer an alternative, but, as with my experiences, the moral choice is better put across through family, friends and figures from within the community of true intent and standing.
However at heart it is an individual moral decision which these kids must make, lonely and hard though it may be.
This is not aimed generally at Muslim youth; but at those within who unfortunately subject to these stresses.
This also applies more generally to young people who are undergoing similar situations from other Right Wing and indeed Left Wing ideologies.
Hope that clarifies my thoughts. Z

[JayzusB.Christ]

Hope that clarifies my thoughts

.

Yes,  absolutely.  Thanks. And I agree with you 100 per cent, though I don't have the experience of growing up in the North.

[The Legendary Shark]

Excellent post, Z.
.
Teenagers joining ISIS and teenagers joining the Army, is there really any difference to the social pressures involved? All across the world nations scoop out great swathes of their youth and hurl them at one another like human bullets. All for goals and ideals these youngsters are often too immature or damaged to understand. What a heartbreaking fucking waste of youthful potential - by Everyone.

[Theblazeuk]

Teenagers joining ISIS and teenagers joining the Army, is there really any difference to the social pressures involved?

The latter always seems more of a financial pressure than anything else. The army pays, and it pays for lots of education that you may not get a chance to do otherwise. Of course that may be a similar pressure to those people actually living in areas dominated by ISIS forces, where it may also be a case of protection.

[Spikes]

No brummie's on here today?