The Political Thread

[TordelBack]

Enjoying reading that with a healthy ration of 'aha!', then remembered that it's not a clever episode of The Practice, it's your one-and-only life.  Very best of luck as always, but do be careful with nonpayment of fines even if you are ahead. I know the heating probably works in the clink, but that's pretty much all it has to recommend it.

[Skullmo]

Yeah, hope it all works out. That sounds terrible that they just made up stuff, but I know it happens quite a bit.

[The Legendary Shark]

Heh, thanks Tordels & Skullmo :-)

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

Jeez, Shark, remember when you started making up nonsensical legal reasons why you weren't going to get evicted, and then you ended up being evicted?

Try the same trick with the reckless assault fine and you will end up in prison.

It entirely up to you to make this protest, obviously, as long as you realise the likely consequences of your actions.

[The Legendary Shark]

I feel the consequences of inaction would be worse.

[Banners]

Maybe, but the moral high ground can be a lonely place to end up.

[TordelBack]

I feel the consequences of inaction would be worse.

I think what we're all trying to say is that may not the case, given the possible severity of said consequences. Not suggesting that you abandon your efforts to get your conviction overturned, but do tread carefully as to how you go about it. Whatever about the shite that's already happened to you, getting banged up would be far worse.

I'm in court next Thursday myself and I'm fecking shitting it, even if a prison sentence is a very distant possibility - with non payment of fine for a violent offense against a police officer it'd be a very strong probability.

[The Legendary Shark]

There's a long way to go before they get to lock me up over less than £120 I've already demonstrated my willingness to pay. First there will have to be communications and arguments, all very logical, then there may be court - well, bring that on - but this time I'm more than willing to be taken before a judge and jury to explain myself and call the witnesses. I'll get my appeal without paying for it.
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The question they have to ask themselves in this austerity driven world is, how many resources are they prepared to expend chasing a determined and reasonably articulate homeless heart patient for a hundred and twenty quid?

[TordelBack]

... but this time I'm more than willing to be taken before a judge and jury to explain myself and call the witnesses. I'll get my appeal without paying for it.

Isn't there a real risk that the judge will simply look down at the morning's full docket and say 'this appearance is regarding nonpayment of a fine, and is not an appeals court for an earlier conviction: 30 days. Next case please'.

[The Legendary Shark]

Not if I get the groundwork right. This time, I won't just be taken to court I'll help them drive. I'll write to the court myself before the trial (which I will insist upon over a hearing) outlining my position and apologising for wasting the court's time with this when I'm perfectly willing to negotiate with the people I've already been in contact with. The prosecutors will submit bare facts and statutes - I will submit those too and more, a narrative backed up by a long and detailed paper chain. For every claim they make I will lodge a counter-claim. Ideally I want the argument to be won before the trial even starts.
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Despite everything, I still think the courts and the law can be put to proper use - but I'm increasingly of the opinion that the more actively one engages with it, the better one's chances become. So long as I act honourably and with respect towards the law, the courts and the people involved then the only thing they possess which I do not is superior force. And if that's all their argument boils down to then this needs pointing out to the jury and the judge. I am confident, though, that intelligent discourse will prevail.
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I mean, what else was I doing with my life anyway? Wasting it watching mind-melting telly and dreaming about being a professional comic writer? At least this might do some quantum of good for my society.

[Professor Bear]

Can you go over their heads and take this up with higher courts if you believe the integrity of the local constabulary and judiciary to be compromised?  This may be region-specific advice as well being as I'm a Norn Iron dweller, but do you have a local vicar or priest you can get onside?  You might be surprised how like an attack dog a grassroots clergyman with their dander up can be, as it's not uncommon for people in my local community to call their priest instead of their lawyer when they smell a stitch-up.

[The Legendary Shark]

Sorry, Tordels, I meant to say good luck for next week, mate!
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And, for what it's worth, the one thing I have learned from my experiences that might be of any use to you is that the only reasonably safe answer to any leading question beginning "IS IT POSSIBLE..." Is "it might be possible but that's not what happened."
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I think I was caught out by that possibility, so just be calm, treat everyone with respect (it doesn't hurt to Google "court protocol" before you go in, think before you speak, don't let the lawyers rush you or wind you up and stay sharp for tripwires and booby traps.
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I'm sure a man of your intelligence will be fine. And don't worry about the fear, that soon goes away when the whistle blows for kick-off...

[The Legendary Shark]

Good suggestion, AA. As much as possible, I want to do this on my own - that's not to say that I don't need all the help I can get but I'd like to find out just how far a single person can legally and lawfully push before something gives. Just how far do my rights extend in working on my own behalf to clear my name and get a refund instead of spending money I don't have to let the very system that engineered this situation sort it out on its own terms? I guess I'm not making much sense, really.
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Also, I think that trying by myself first might make the local vicar more amenable if I do decide to solicit his help, or maybe the help of a journalist or mad philanthropist for that matter, in the future.
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I have to look at this in the long-term, expecting it to grind on and on in one form or another, and not exploit all my avenues at once.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

There's a long way to go before they get to lock me up over less than £120 I've already demonstrated my willingness to pay. First there will have to be communications and arguments, all very logical, then there may be court - well, bring that on - but this time I'm more than willing to be taken before a judge and jury to explain myself and call the witnesses. I'll get my appeal without paying for it.
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The question they have to ask themselves in this austerity driven world is, how many resources are they prepared to expend chasing a determined and reasonably articulate homeless heart patient for a hundred and twenty quid?

If the law says you go to prison for £120, that's where you'll go. The payment of fines is an important and widely-supported principle, and the sanction of imprisonment for wilful non-payment is perfectly fair.

Trying to turn a cut and dried "non-payment of fine" case into an appeal against the original conviction is utterly doomed.

But I'm sure you know all this, really. The idea seems to be "noble failure" where you end up losing (again) but feel like you've scored some sort of moral victory in doing so. Like this guy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/naked-rambler-could-face-a-lifetime-of-imprisonments-after-european-court-ruling-9823945.html

It just seems so unnecessary

[ZenArcade]

Some times you've got to stop reinforcing defeat. I understand your stance (may not agree; but respect it nonetheless); the problem is you are putting your face in front of a mailed fist. Best regards Z