The Political Thread

[Modern Panther]

With respect, I'd suggest that there litle point in arguing with "Sharky" about anything.  I've had him on ignore and paid no attention to his posts since he called me a holocaust apologist for pointing out that governments paid an important role in eradicating smallpox.  The idea that a beneficial discussion can be held?  Well...it hasnt worked before, so why would it now?

Repeatedly insisting "the world is broken and I know how to fix it" whilst offering no actual solution or pathway is the easiest game in the world.  Its the same tactic used by the people now shaping our society. 

Insisting that the current system is wrong...offering increasing absurd "examples"..disappearing off on tangents when confronted and then resorting to " I can't be expected to know all the answers, i'm not one of those expects, govnor"...then, when shown to be completely incorrect launching into insults whilst declaring himself the victim...  We've seen Trump and Farage use it a hundred times.  How much better our world could be if we had alll just ignored them until the come up with viable alternatives.

[TordelBack]

Shark's argument isn't that there is no difference between the two men, it's that the position of Supreme Leader itself should not exist, and that conclusion isn't materially changed by the fact that one is a classy, intelligent and downright affable human being, and the other a loathsome sack of diarrhea with a voicebox programmed with random phrases from 1930s speeches going off incessantly somehere in its noisome depths. Both are just mortals, and have done or will do shameful things in order to succeed in the system they rose to the top of, and in accordance with the role they sought and won. It's the system and the role that is the great wrong.  It's less moral relativism on Sharky's part than it is moral absolutism.

And I think that's a fair argument to make.  I wouldn't agree with it, however.

EDIT: bah, ninja'd by the Shark himself.

[The Legendary Shark]

It's okay to have a Supreme Leader. I just think it should be okay to say to that leader, "no thanks - I'm not doing that," without being punished for it. That, in essence, is all I'm arguing for -  the right to say "no" and have it mean just that. It's just that some people seem to think that being able to make one's own decisions about what's right and wrong based on one's personal morals and social conventions somehow means that we must ditch everything we've learned and achieved in the last 40,000 years and go back to living in caves to murder and rape one another with impunity, which is ludicrous.

If, for example and God forbid, we get a Farage for PM and he goes all Hitler on us, we'd all want to say no to him, wouldn't we? Well, we need to start thinking about how to say "no" and what to say "no" to now, especially the way politics seems to be going, otherwise by the time we really need to say "no" we won't know how.

[Tjm86]

- at some point we'd all have to act in the same manner, act with force to impose our will or policies. None of us could tolerate a single person saying "no" because that undermines the position. If we do tolerate people saying "no" then our power evaporates and the position becomes pointless.

At the risk of sounding completely insane, this is where I join company with the late and much reviled Mrs Thatcher.  When she said, "there is no society, there is only the individual"; as much as this was grossly distorted she did have a valid point.  It is our individual agency that shapes society, our responsibility for our own action in the face of external forces that matters most.  We have a responsibility first and foremost to ourselves and then to those around us; our family, those we work both for and with those we come into contact with.

To me this fits in with Chomsky's argument that "optimism is a strategy for building a better future.  If we believe in the instinct for freedom we are more likely to step up and take responsibility for making it so."  It is way too easy to look at the forces around us and say that we are powerless.  This is a complete distortion of the truth.  The power may be limited but if each of us act with agency then it increases the chances of us shaping a better world.  The likes of Trump, Farage, May and Corbyn gives us the impression that we are completely powerless.  They would have us believe in the opposite of Popper's Open Society.

It strikes me that Trump may be the best thing that has happened to American, and even British politics in a long time.  We have grown apathetic, handed over the reigns and stepped back.  We are now sowing what we reap.  Maybe now we will wake up and realise that we need to challenge our decision makers to make better decisions, to recognise their responsibility and to hold them accountable.  As the old curse goes; "may you live in interesting times."

[Hawkmumbler]

#WomansMarch is the biggest coordinated protest in the history of the world. We saw history today guys, astonishing.

Just a pity I was working for most of it but by god i'll not miss another!

[The Legendary Shark]

Well said, TJM86.

Nobody can do everything but everybody can do something.

[TordelBack]

Aside from being genuinely heartened by the amazing spectacle of the Women's March, I adore the Carrie/Leia/Resistance sub-theme. Just perfect.

[ZenArcade]

My cousins, their kids and all of their friends went on the Washington march. Really proud of the US side of the family. Z

[GordonR]

My cousins, their kids and all of their friends went on the Washington march. Really proud of the US side of the family. Z

My US side of the family - my sister, her extremely dull husband, simpering idiot of a daughter and future clocktower sniper candidate of a son - all voted Trump.

Thank goodness I already wasn't talking to her in the first place.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Thank goodness I already wasn't talking to her in the first place.

Only a pot-smoking commie beatnik would write something as anti-American as Storming Heaven

EDIT: I'm way behind the times, aren't I? SJWs and cucks are the bad guys now.

[Professor Bear]

Trident doesn't work properly and the government covered it up because there was a parliamentary vote coming up on renewing it that was worth 200bn pounds to Tory donors and foreign governments, some of whom are basically our enemies (the foreign governments, not the Tory donors - although now I think about it...).
And thank goodness they did so - I for one have never felt safer.

[Hawkmumbler]

Aside from being genuinely heartened by the amazing spectacle of the Women's March, I adore the Carrie/Leia/Resistance sub-theme. Just perfect.

The largest protest in US history. And it was cobbled together in less than 24 hours. Wonderful!

[Dunk!]

Liked the pink pussy beanie hats lots of folks had knitted.

They gave me a smile and a some small hope.

Dunk!

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Sorry Hawkmumbler it was organised from the November 9, 2016 and not within 24 hours

[Hawkmumbler]

Sorry Hawkmumbler it was organised from the November 9, 2016 and not within 24 hours

I believe a smaller scale protest was orchestrated in Washington alone yes, but the broader protests both throughout the US and globally where spontaneous reactions.