The Political Thread

[Hawkmumbler]

"Had a wee bit of an empire for awhile" An empire that by all historical accounts was one of the most deplorable colonialisations of them all. "The glory days of old" is just a romantiscised image if slavery and discrimination, and for a little while the EU, as imprefect as it is, brought our egos down to the levels of everyone else.

[GordonR]

A 'who won the war, anyway?' and a mention for our glorious empire.

Surely that's a full house shout if you're playing Idiot Bingo?

[Grugz]

ah,but it wasn't just the shit bits was it? (Germany has a couple of million of skeletons in its closet) we led the way in industry as I remember from loads of field trips to mills at school

[Tjm86]

The dismissive attitude towards leave voters is probably one of the more uncomfortable aspects of the result.  I know one or two leave voters and they are intelligent, articulate and respectful (sheesh, that sounds like the old 'I know one or two gay people / blacks / insert group of your choice.  Any parallel is accidental and unintentional so sorry there).

That said, I'm not sure how much 'independence' we either needed or are likely to get.  There is rather unsurprisingly talk from Europe about expediting our exit and about ensuring that very little of what the leave campaign claimed about the negotiations on trade etc come about 'pour encourage les autres'.  As you say this at the very least is going to be a difficult time.  Sensible for such a fragile economy?  Not so sure.  Europe has provided financial assistance for many different parts of the UK through the recession.  Personally I find it ironic that the Welsh Valleys have rejected Europe, questioning what the EU has done for them.  (Answer: provided funding for a large number of projects to improve the economy, not always successfully).

You are absolutely right Grugz, we have voted for this, albeit by a slim majority.  Now we get to lie in this bed and find out how comfortable it actually is.

[Grugz]

A 'who won the war, anyway?' and a mention for our glorious empire.

Surely that's a full house shout if you're playing Idiot Bingo?

   winning the war is a proud moment in our chequered history or angela merkel would be sporting a rather fetching moustache...

  call me an idiot if it makes you fell big and clever if you want despite molchers call for civility I don't care what you think but as a free and democratic country,respect your view even if it is different to mine ,we are supposed to value free speech so perhaps you could extend the same courtesy to others. thank you.

and tim, they are expediting our exit cos theyre scared other countries may follow suit(I believe the Netherlands are considering it?)  and vote for freedom rather than be governed by unelected wotnots in brussels...they are just afraid,i feel, that their power is threatened.

[ZenArcade]

Much of what you say I stridently disagree with Grugz. There was a referendum,  in my eyes one that never should never have happened; a referendum caused by a bunch of 'little england' Tories more specifically a means to further a power struggle between a bunch of rarefied entitled pricks who frankly think the rest of you. (English and Welsh) are at best pawns and at worst undeserving peasants.i
Your views on cuts bringing your nation out of recession is farcical. The Nazi menace was defeated mainly by the blood and tears of 26,000,000 Russian dead and the industrial production of the continental USA. The Empire is looked upon by people like me as something which kept my ancestors in thalldom for hundreds of years ; which halved my countries population and has left a legacy of bitterness in Irish communities through the world. I speak for my own, your Empire and it's deeds effected many hundreds of millions of others just as badly.
The vote is 'democratic' in what sense....what is 'democratic' about a false flag to further the aims of extremists and the permanent rich class in your country? Respectfully. Z

[Steve Green]

ah,but it wasn't just the shit bits was it? (Germany has a couple of million of skeletons in its closet) we led the way in industry as I remember from loads of field trips to mills at school

Yeah, I'm sure they were great.

http://spartacus-educational.com/IRaccidents.htm

[Steve Green]

And I can't see anyone clamouring for a referendum on the unelected members of the House of Lords.

[Grugz]

no worries Z, I know we,as many other countries have dropped the ball and committed many atrocities but hopefully in the 21st century I hope we learned from past mistakes and for what its worth ever since the "troubles" supposedly came to an end I often wondered why northern Ireland didn't say "we want out and want to be joined back with the other bit" and would wholeheartedly support that. But my political and financial knowledge is weak but I was under the impression we did claw our way out of ressecion with all the austerity measures etc. and wasn't it the people who demanded the right to vote on this in the first palce? or Cameron would have just carried on as before

[Grugz]

And I can't see anyone clamouring for a referendum on the unelected members of the House of Lords.

i'd go for that! do they get paid for sitting round decomposing?

[Hawkmumbler]

ah,but it wasn't just the shit bits was it? (Germany has a couple of million of skeletons in its closet) we led the way in industry as I remember from loads of field trips to mills at school

Blood diamonds. I am not proud of my English heritage.

[Steve Green]

And I can't see anyone clamouring for a referendum on the unelected members of the House of Lords.

i'd go for that! do they get paid for sitting round decomposing?

£300 expenses - last time I looked some just clocked in to get that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25411182

[Grugz]

I was thinking more of richard arkwright and his magnificent spinning machine but fair do's. as I said the past is past and we learn to get things right, yeah it might be a colossal balls up or shock it might not be...we'll find out in time won't we?

£300 eh? formaldehyde is expensive isn't it? mind you I bet they claim it all back in expenses for their expenses

[TordelBack]

As always when watching Britain beat itself up, I wonder if ye appreciate all your actual largely untainted successes which are so obvious from outside.  Everything seems to be ignored in favour of your achievements in WWII (which while critical and laudable would have meant absolutely nothing without the rest of the Allies), and your dubious claims about a benevolent Empire. Your real achievements are things like comedy, literature, the NHS, gentility and civility, racial integration, religious tolerance, open friendliness, well presented heritage, science, endless patience, the BBC, bookshops, Cornish pasties and embracing eccentricity. That's the stuff you should take pride in, because a lot of it is bloody rare in the rest of the world.

Dunkirk was a class act too.

[Grugz]

can we start calling Cornish pasties "Cornish" even if theyre from wigan now were out? i'd eat a bent banana but I don't like them.