With Spurrier's The Vort reprinted with this month's Megazine it got me thinking of all the surprise endings/twists I've seen in my years on reading 2000 AD. I'm not talking about Future Shock endings or the like, but the sensation of reading one strip, only to realize you've been reading another all along. Biggest examples of course being...
The Dead Man is Dredd - Before my time, but I actually sat down to read the whole thing in prep for writing this list. Unfortunately its twist has been loooooooooong spoiled for me. So I'd be curious to hear from anyone who was caught by surprise by this strip.
Malone is Flanagan Sinister - Probably my first surprise twist, Hell Shall Suffer No Dumb Minions had ended in such a cluster funt I wasn't sure how the series was going to come back. Early on in this strips run people started to figure out that 'Cal Hamilton' was a pseudonym of Dan Abnett, but I'm not sure if anyone saw the reveal coming and the continuation of Sinister-Dexter's next chapter. Using someone like Simon Coleby, a very not Sin-Dex style artist also helped keep the scent off of it.
Crispy is Lobster Random - What sparked this thread, Spurrier again used a pseudonym to cover his trail, but honestly I'm not sure why he did. The Vort was so different then Lobster Random, and with D'Isreali on art, he could have just treated it like another of his wild strip ideas and still shocked the world at the end.
Dead Eyes was an Indigo Prime story all along - Now, John Smith, he managed to pull this off without resorted to covering his name up. Because really, was anyone expecting the long dormant Indigo Prime to suddenly just return in the last pages of a random John Smith strip? This strip was interesting in that for 90% of its run it treated itself entirely as its own thing, and then suddenly everything the protagonist has been working toward doesn't matter because the reality goes toxic. Brilliant.
Trifecta - Probably the latest mega twist. When three different Dreddworld strips were running at the same time I was a bit eh about it. Afterall, that's what the Megazine's for yeah? And we had just had the return of Lenny Zero a few months before, no suddenly both Low Life and Simping Detective are back? And why isn't Simping in the Megazine where it belongs? And then Dredd kicks Point's door down. And we're off to the races.
Which was your favorite? I'm weird and going to give it to Malone because of how utterly shocked I was at the time that I could have the wool so thoroughly pulled over my eyes. I was a young reader then, easily impressed I suppose. The Vort came a little to close to the heels of that to have quite the same impact. And I'm not sure I cared enough about Indigo Prime when that reveal happened to really understand why I should be excited about that. The follow up made me a fan. And Trifecta was just masterful. But still, Malone.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 05 August, 2015, 07:22:02 PM
Which was your favorite? I'm weird and going to give it to Malone because of how utterly shocked I was at the time that I could have the wool so thoroughly pulled over my eyes. I was a young reader then, easily impressed I suppose. The Vort came a little to close to the heels of that to have quite the same impact. And I'm not sure I cared enough about Indigo Prime when that reveal happened to really understand why I should be excited about that. The follow up made me a fan. And Trifecta was just masterful.
Yeah, I'm very similar - The Vort came a bit too soon after Malone, and at the time Dead Eyes finished I had no real idea what Indigo Prime
was (still haven't checked out the old stuff, come to that) so it didn't mean much to me.
Trifecta wins it for me. The somewhat snarky comment I made in the review thread the
very week before the big reveal is particularly funny in retrospect...
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 18 October, 2012, 03:39:28 PM
I think running Low Life alongside Simping Detective is going to flag up the similarities of both strips to their detriment, especially coming so soon after also-very-similar Lenny Zero - and as if to prove the point (comes right after the Jack), both strips feature a 3-flying-ducks motif this week, of all things - what are the chances?! Not to mention that they're both following a narrator-straight-in-at-the-deep-end-unsure-what's-happening plot; Dirty Frank's got a bump on the head and no memory, Jack's got a hangover and toothache, but it's still all far too similar. Three Dreddworld strips in a five-strip comic is too much. Isn't that what the Megazine's for?
The Dead Man because I figured it out as the character did. Dead Eyes for the SQUEEEE moment of seeing THOSE TWO GUYS again. And Trifecta for its sheer ballsiness.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 August, 2015, 07:43:43 PM
The Dead Man because I figured it out as the character did.
The hairs still go up on the back of my neck as I remember walking up the road from the newsagent, turning the pages of the revelatory episode in question, my jaw dropping, my eyes as wide as Yassa Povey's. I was thirteen at the time - in the perfect age bracket for it to have maximum impact, I reckon - and there is no twist that can ever compete. I'd love to know who on the forum figured it out in advance, and when.
I twigged Dead Man about halfway through. There was no specific thing in the strip... I think Dead Man said something slightly Dreddy, and I made the bionic eyes connection.
Trifecta wins for me. I actually gasped at the audacity of it. I'd been one of the low-level grumblers moaning about three Dreddworld strips running at the same time. I had to turn back a couple of pages and read the Dredd/Simp transition again. And the penny didn't really drop until Low Life, and then I gasped. And the. I cackled. Thirty-odd years and 2000AD can still delight me. Fantastic.
Cheers
Jim
Trifecta. Pulling that off in the age of the Internet without any leaks. Astounding. Blew my socks off
I like the story that the three creators came up with the idea while drinking and then sobered up and thought "I wonder if that would work"
"And then Dredd could kick down the door INTO ANOTHER STRIP!" Tharg must have been guffawing with glee at that during the pitch.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 August, 2015, 08:35:11 PM
"And then Dredd could kick down the door INTO ANOTHER STRIP!" Tharg must have been guffawing with glee at that during the pitch.
Yeah. I was really: "Wait. WHAT?!"
Cheers
Jim
Trifecta.
Because I thought "Heh, that was clever linking those two strips together. Wouldn't it be funny if the third was also... what!"
Kinda want to say Dead Man cos it was the first of the big 'uns but you have to give it to Trifecta. In this day and age with companies spoiling themselve left right and centre for the publicity that goes with it, even before fans and gossip sites get their mites in to pull this one off was quite magnificent.
Just superb stuff and so fantastically executed.Almost too good. was half way through Simping Detective when I slowed and flicked back. Carried on. Stopped flicked back... carried on... the penny finally drops. Now I'm a bit of a dumb ass I'll grant you, but you hear so many people say this. A twist so good, even when the reveal was made it took tme to sink in.
This thread also go me thinking about another event not on the list, as I don't think its a traditional twist, more an exquiste cliffhanging. But Dredd's escape plan after assasinating Griffin was the only moment more jaw dropping in the comics history.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 05 August, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
I twigged Dead Man about halfway through. There was no specific thing in the strip... I think Dead Man said something slightly Dreddy, and I made the bionic eyes connection.
Have to say, again, I sussed it from the first episode. I couldn't know for sure (obviously) but, y'know. It's set in the Cursed Earth. The main character is described as "a man of violence". And, as Jim notes,
bionic frickin'
eyes. The same square irises Dredd has in 'Hitman' (I presume Old Stoney Face upgrades at some point because they aren't the ones we see him being given in 'City of the Damned').
All that, along with us being presented with a mystery tied with a Who Is He? bow, I'm surprised more Squaxx didn't have even an
inkling of whom he
might be.
None of which spoiled my enjoyment, however, despite not being especially interested when Dredd finds himself up against the supernatural.
For people who were there at the time... what was going on in Judge Dredd at the time when Dead Man was running?
I know it was all building toward Necropolis, which I still haven't read. But was Dredd shown as taking the long walk in the strip proper ahead of Dead Man's appearance? Or was Kraken inserted in his place with no one the wiser until Tales of the Dead Man (which was previewed in the back of the Dead Man trade I read)
Also from my first time reading Dead Man, the Dark Judge uniforms on Nausea and Phobia were radical. Why have we never seen these designs since? They are way cooler then the usual quartet of Dark Judges.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 05 August, 2015, 11:17:58 PM
For people who were there at the time... what was going on in Judge Dredd at the time when Dead Man was running?
In the same prog as The Dead Man started was 'The Shooting Match', which reintroduced Kraken to the series. (He hadn't been seen for over a year at that point, and he was swiftly established as being better than Dredd - his replacement in-waiting.) Following this, we got 'Young Giant', which introduced the titular cadet - if Kraken was heir to Dredd's flesh, Giant felt like his spiritual successor. But after that, it was just several one-offs, nothing out of the ordinary - just Dredd going about his business. The prog after the revelation, we get 'A Letter to Judge Dredd' - the trigger for Dredd's resignation. So we only found out about the Long Walk after it had happened - part of why the Dead Man's such a shocker.
For my money, this run of stories, through to and including Necropolis, is the best Dredd's ever been.
Edited to clarify: At no point is Kraken subbed in without us knowing - The Dead Man's occurring about a hundred days ahead of where the regular strip was.
Trifecta for me all day long.
When Dredd kicks the door down into The Simping Detective was just wow, but when the story then carried on into Low Life (which I was then hoping for whilst reading the Simping Detective), well that was just great.
That Prog also changed my reading habits for good. I now always read the stories in the Prog in order. Previously I read then in whatever order took my fancy.
I am just so happy I read them in the correct order that week.
On a relatively much lesser scale, one twist I often think back on was when Ben was revealed as a robot spy in Harry 20 (although a little of the shock was taken out of it by it being on the right page not the left and so I saw it before I was "meant" to).
With Dead Eyes...well I never really liked Indigo Prime back in the day (but I am slowly coming round to it after the last couple of series)..so for me it was more of a let down :(
Speaking of pages being printed on the wrong side, is it me or is Dead Man collection printed incorrectly? The Nausea/Phobia reveal looks like it was suppose to be a double page splash, and the reveal of the Dredd badge was on the right page, when you'd think that should be on the left for the page turn shocker.
Another vote for Trifecta.
However...as a young juve reading the prog back in the olden days....the reveal of Dredd meeting ex-Chief Judge McGruder in the Cursed Earth during Necropolis got a genuine 'WTF' moment out of me.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 05 August, 2015, 11:54:27 PM
Speaking of pages being printed on the wrong side, is it me or is Dead Man collection printed incorrectly? The Nausea/Phobia reveal looks like it was suppose to be a double page splash, and the reveal of the Dredd badge was on the right page, when you'd think that should be on the left for the page turn shocker.
Afair, the reveal was on the left hand page which was the last page of the strip too. I entirely loved the Deadman reveal - I had no idea it was coming and even with the reveal panel, I thought it could still be a red herring. It was so exciting though!
And though it wasn't a twist in quite the same vein, the discovery of what was in Kano's black box sticks well in my memory. Again, I was so excited waiting to find out and the fact it changes the perspective on Kano is a nice bonus.
Malone was a good 'un, and Dead Eyes made me incredibly happy, but top spot must go to Trifecta - grins all round when the penny dropped.
M
I was young at the time, but having just re-read both stories in the mega collection, I do remember being surprised by the reveal of Orlok in Hour of the Wolf, and by the link with The Brainstem Man in Helios.
I missed Trifecta in the prog, and only caught up in the trade at which point the surprise was non-existent. I can imagine it must have been stunning at the time though.
Trifecta by a pretty significant margin. I was certainly guilty of moaning about too many Dreddworld strips running at the same time and I don't think I even realised what was going on in the gutters between Dredd and Simping until later. Looking back on it
Not that they weren't pretty great in their own ways but things like The Dead Man and Malone were constructed around the mystery of the central character's identity. That doesn't necessarily make the reveal any less of a surprise but, for me, the audacity of the Trifecta crossover goes way beyond that.
For what it's worth I was absolutely convinced that The Dead Man was McGruder and the title itself was deliberate misdirection. I like to console myself that she at least turned up in Necropolis a few weeks later.
Actually, now I think about it, my favourite 2000AD twist has to be the Lloigor reaching the edge of the Chimera universe.
And TJ brings up a good one for me to be smug about as I guessed Orlok was the villain pretty early on in Hour of the Wolf. Doesn't the wolf in Anderson's premonition have the same scar?
Trifecta for me. Returned to the prog at1800 (as others here) and already I was shocked at the quality. Loved the 3 Trifecta strips - the perfect Dredd of this guy Henry Flint and a new favourite artist in D'Israeli - when the reveal happened only a few weeks in. So audacious, fresh but perfectly plausible. So this is 2000AD now... wow.
I think I half-expected the Dead Man reveal, but the repeated 'Who Is He?' will usually detract from my interest level. Hype is a 4-letter word. Average age of readership at the time probably explains Tharg's desire to milk the Dead Man (there's an image).
Dead Man was a surprise, but I feel it lessens the impact every time 2000ad revisits the gimmick. I recall the Malone reveal went down badly with some partly for that reason (though I suspect mainly because they'd expressed enjoyment of it and then it turned out to be a tie-in to a strip regularly used as a critical punching bag), and when it happened in The Vort and that recent Harry 20 thing, I just tutted to myself. I didn't mind it in Dead Eyes, though, because it had been that long since Indigo Prime had been in the comic that it felt genuinely leftfield - though I did pity any new readers who might not have had the first clue why a story they might have been enjoying suddenly ended the way it did.
Trifecta was amusing, but spoiled for me by someone in the review threads who guessed the twist ahead of time. THANKS JERK.
Quote from: Greg M. on 05 August, 2015, 11:37:40 PM
For my money, this run of stories, through to and including Necropolis, is the best Dredd's ever been.
Totally agree with this. I remember reading The Shooting Match over and over. Such a brilliant one-parter, with astounding John Higgins artwork.
I think the genius of The Dead Man is probably lost on those who weren't reading at the time, and lost to memory for many who were there. Context is absolutely key here.
It started at a big jumping on prog, that had been trailed for weeks, that saw a move to 3 full colour strips, the start of Horned God Bk 2, and the reimagining of Rogue Trooper in War Machine (a great story, with beautiful full-colour art, tarnished by what Friday became). Bloody hell, even the fact that the other black and white strip was Zenith Phase 3!
Remember also that this is pre-meg, so the idea of another Dreddworld thrill wasn't unexpected (Song of the Surfer started in 654). I think I kept on expecting the Judges to show up and try to arrest 'Dead Man' placing him as some Chopper-like honourable anti-authority figure (and perhaps the inclusion of Song of the Surfer alongside helped to push that and further normalise the Dreddworld presence). As others have said, there was also absolutely nothing in the actual Dredd stories hinting at what was to come.
The Dead Man was really easy for readers to dismiss, especially younger readers (like I was), more easily captivated by all the shiny events occurring elsewhere. An excellent piece of misdirection.
Quote from: credo on 06 August, 2015, 11:14:51 AM
...the reimagining of Rogue Trooper in War Machine (a great story, with beautiful full-colour art, tarnished by what Friday became).
On this subject (well, vaguely) what are some of the
worst twists? Have there been any as inducive of a giant 'so what?' as much as Rogue showing up in the rebooted strip?
Quote from: credo on 06 August, 2015, 11:14:51 AM
The Dead Man was really easy for readers to dismiss, especially younger readers (like I was), more easily captivated by all the shiny events occurring elsewhere. An excellent piece of misdirection.
You've totally nailed it. The Dead Man sneaked in there: a quiet, slightly old-fashioned-seeming slow-burner, in amongst all these flashy 'big deal' strips, going steadily about its business without any gimmickry.
Quote from: Magnetica on 05 August, 2015, 11:48:39 PM
That Prog also changed my reading habits for good. I now always read the stories in the Prog in order. Previously I read then in whatever order took my fancy.
I am just so happy I read them in the correct order that week.
I always read my prog from least-favourite to favourite, so I too read these in the wrong order - it took me a while flipping back and forth to twig what was going on, so it did lessen the impact somewhat (haven't changed my reading habits though!)
I'm ashamed to say that every one of these twists has come a complete surprise to me (though with trifecta I did notice the similarities and had a fleeting thought of "wouldn't it be cool if they all linked up...", but I never remotely thought it would actually happen the very next week!
Dead Man was the one that blew my tiny teenage mind though!
Quote from: Greg M. on 05 August, 2015, 11:37:40 PM
Quote from: The Adventurer on 05 August, 2015, 11:17:58 PM
For people who were there at the time... what was going on in Judge Dredd at the time when Dead Man was running?
In the same prog as The Dead Man started was 'The Shooting Match', which reintroduced Kraken to the series. (He hadn't been seen for over a year at that point, and he was swiftly established as being better than Dredd - his replacement in-waiting.) Following this, we got 'Young Giant', which introduced the titular cadet - if Kraken was heir to Dredd's flesh, Giant felt like his spiritual successor. But after that, it was just several one-offs, nothing out of the ordinary - just Dredd going about his business. The prog after the revelation, we get 'A Letter to Judge Dredd' - the trigger for Dredd's resignation. So we only found out about the Long Walk after it had happened - part of why the Dead Man's such a shocker.
For my money, this run of stories, through to and including Necropolis, is the best Dredd's ever been.
Edited to clarify: At no point is Kraken subbed in without us knowing - The Dead Man's occurring about a hundred days ahead of where the regular strip was.
Full list of Dredd stories while The Dead Man was running:
650: The Shooting Match
651-655: Young Giant
656: Politics
657: It Still Pays to be Mental
658: Little Spuggy's Xmas
659: Family Affair
660: I'm Manny, Me Fly
661: A Letter to Judge Dredd
662-668: Tale of the Dead Man
669-670: By Lethal Injection
671: Rights of Succession
672-673: Dear Annie
If memory serves, the last five stories in the last five progs before Necropolis had a 'Countdown to Necropolis' sub-title.
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 09:42:53 AM
Actually, now I think about it, my favourite 2000AD twist has to be the Lloigor reaching the edge of the Chimera universe.
I quite liked the way that Iok Sotot turned out to be Zenith's son in some extradimensional time-transcending way.
Least favourite twist for me was the recent Harry 20 - mainly because the story as it stands does not change anything in any way whatsoever.
I wouldn't say it's my favourite yet (Dead Man and Trifecta are probably vying for first place for that one) but I'm really looking forward to the next series of Stickleback...
Quote from: JPMaybe on 06 August, 2015, 11:37:13 AM
On this subject (well, vaguely) what are some of the worst twists? Have there been any as inducive of a giant 'so what?' as much as Rogue showing up in the rebooted strip?
While I'm aware they did get joined up in the end, I can't even remember how the Friday stories eventually finished. Something about a war memorial?
I wouldn't say the Rogue appearance was a twist, rather a painful, inevitable attempt to give credence to the post-War Machine stories. Having said all that, my recollections are tarnished by the absolute worst of the Friday stories - I'm sure some of the others will be better than I remember.
Quote from: sheridan on 06 August, 2015, 01:16:45 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 09:42:53 AM
Actually, now I think about it, my favourite 2000AD twist has to be the Lloigor reaching the edge of the Chimera universe.
I quite liked the way that Iok Sotot turned out to be Zenith's son in some extradimensional time-transcending way.
Least favourite twist for me was the recent Harry 20 - mainly because the story as it stands does not change anything in any way whatsoever.
I wouldn't say it's my favourite yet (Dead Man and Trifecta are probably vying for first place for that one) but I'm really looking forward to the next series of Stickleback...
How could I forget the recent Stickleback reveal??? Loved that one.
Am I right in thinking that we weren't told that Chopper had sneakily been "allowed" to escape until quite a way into Oz?
The Stickleback twist didn't work so well for me, as it was (unless I missed something) pretty much nothing to do with any thing that had happened in the strip to date. To me it was "introduce random literary character from another source". Ok at least he was from the correct period and location, but otherwise it was pretty much a non sequitur.
Now I will be more than happy for someone who remembers the strip better than me to say "no actually such and such happened earlier that gave us a clue".
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 01:53:36 PM
I will be more than happy for someone who remembers the strip better than me to say "no actually such and such happened earlier that gave us a clue".
For a long time before, the prog review thread featured people guessing, and guessing correctly. And some wrongly, of course. At the reveal, I just thought... 'shit'.
There were none that I can recall of any merit after War Machine. the way the War Machine story was structured left little room for any meaningful follow ups other than the basic post disaster nonsense we were served. It would have required a writer of true talent to go beyond the awfulness (even John Smith struggled). Z
Bad Company: After finding the survivors after the massive battle, Danny discovers Mad Tommy wasn't truly that mad (at first) and Kano was in fact, as mad as a lorry. Kano's secretive box held half of someone else's brain that he thought was his.
I also thought Deadman was awesome because having read enough Marvel and DC crossovers, you know they are coming every summer and are heavily advertised (they didn't used to be as forced too back in the 80s). For me reading Deadman for the first time, it was just the sheer ballsyness of having a crossover snuck in like that.
Quote from: ZenArcade on 06 August, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
There were none that I can recall of any merit after War Machine. the way the War Machine story was structured left little room for any meaningful follow ups other than the basic post disaster nonsense we were served. It would have required a writer of true talent to go beyond the awfulness (even John Smith struggled). Z
I think that you're right that it served best as a stand alone. Really, Bad Company had already taken away any capacity for Rogue to comment intelligently on the horrors of War. The only thing I can think of is that War Machine kind of set him up as a botch job from the start (a Friday job), which started to be reflected in his delusions of being spoken to by his dead comrades. Maybe a paranoid schizophrenic deserter hiding out on Nu-Earth* would've made for a good ongoing story, and could certainly have given the Rogue character a bit more moral nuance.
*War Machine's biggest mistake, of course, was not omitting the bio-chips, but removing Rogue/Friday from the Nu-Earth setting which was always the source of what was interesting in any classic Rogue strip (e.g. Bio-Wire, Glass Zones, Chem-Fog, Norts, etc).
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 01:53:36 PM
The Stickleback twist didn't work so well for me, as it was (unless I missed something) pretty much nothing to do with any thing that had happened in the strip to date. To me it was "introduce random literary character from another source". Ok at least he was from the correct period and location, but otherwise it was pretty much a non sequitur.
Now I will be more than happy for someone who remembers the strip better than me to say "no actually such and such happened earlier that gave us a clue".
Personally, I'm torn on this one.
One the one hand, Stickleback being [spoiler]Sherlock Holmes[/spoiler] is the very definition of Zarjaz! A blinder of a twist, and well played.
On the other hand...
I've now lost interest in the world that Edgington has set up. All my questions are related to [spoiler]Holmes[/spoiler]: Where is [spoiler]Watson[/spoiler]? And [spoiler]Lestrade[/spoiler]? Has this already been mentioned and i've just missed it? Why is Stickleback [spoiler]Holmes[/spoiler]? If [spoiler]Holmes[/spoiler] is real in this universe, which of his original stories are canon?
Admittedly, this will probably be addressed when the series returns, but still. It's just not Stickleback any more.
Oh, and Trifecta was the best twist for me.
Closely followed by beardy McGruder in Necropolis.
Trifecta. I can remember sitting still, very quietly, just flipping back between the last page of Dredd and the first page of Simp. Stunned, I slowly let out a high pitched squeel as it hit me how insanely ingenious this use of the anthology format this was. Still not only a technical brilliant story, with a phenomenal over all story, but just one of the biggest, gushiest fan moments of being a 2000AD reader.
The end of the Judge Child quest seemed like twist at the time to the young me, and the episode immediately after it illustrated by Bolland and showed the council of 5 assessing Dredd's performance was quite amazing to my young mind back then.
I'm still not over the reveal of Toby as the killer in Halo Jones
I'm going to say the revelation that Benny Beeny gets himself transplanted into America's body, in Judge Dredd: America.
Quote from: sheridan on 06 August, 2015, 01:16:45 PM
Least favourite twist for me was the recent Harry 20 - mainly because the story as it stands does not change anything in any way whatsoever.
Eh? Am I missing something here?
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 10:42:18 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 06 August, 2015, 01:16:45 PM
Least favourite twist for me was the recent Harry 20 - mainly because the story as it stands does not change anything in any way whatsoever.
Eh? Am I missing something here?
Depends if you missed the nostal-tastic Sci-Fi Special a few weeks back.
The Dante saga had loads of jaw-drop moments that I thought of adding to this thread, but very few of them were actually 'twists' per se. But the revelation at the end of Tsar Wars that the mysterious 'Lord Protector' was Konstantin, back from the dead, was a good 'un.
Quote from: Fungus on 06 August, 2015, 10:44:32 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 10:42:18 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 06 August, 2015, 01:16:45 PM
Least favourite twist for me was the recent Harry 20 - mainly because the story as it stands does not change anything in any way whatsoever.
Eh? Am I missing something here?
Depends if you missed the nostal-tastic Sci-Fi Special a few weeks back.
Double eh?! You mean the one with Robo Hunter, Ace Trucking and Rogue Trooper?
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 06 August, 2015, 10:54:04 PM
The Dante saga had loads of jaw-drop moments that I thought of adding to this thread, but very few of them were actually 'twists' per se. But the revelation at the end of Tsar Wars that the mysterious 'Lord Protector' was Konstantin, back from the dead, was a good 'un.
Half expecting somebody like Huff to pop up and nominate the time somebody died in Dante and didn't come back.
On the other hand, I do wish the revelation that Dmitri had cheated death by over writing Arkady mind with his own was more of a shocker for me. But I predicted it pretty much the moment Dmitri said his goodbyes.
Harry 20 was a classic. Z
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 10:56:09 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 06 August, 2015, 10:54:04 PM
The Dante saga had loads of jaw-drop moments that I thought of adding to this thread, but very few of them were actually 'twists' per se. But the revelation at the end of Tsar Wars that the mysterious 'Lord Protector' was Konstantin, back from the dead, was a good 'un.
Half expecting somebody like Huff to pop up and nominate the time somebody died in Dante and didn't come back.
Yeah, it was a story beat Morisson fell back on an awful lot - but Konstantin and Viktor's surprise comebacks genuinely excited me at the time. Lulu and Dmitri less so; either because I'd guessed they would happen beforehand or because the device was getting a bit overused by then.
Quote from: WhizzBang on 06 August, 2015, 08:35:59 PM
The end of the Judge Child quest seemed like twist at the time to the young me, and the episode immediately after it illustrated by Bolland and showed the council of 5 assessing Dredd's performance was quite amazing to my young mind back then.
Yes that blew me away at the time...20 odd weeks of looking for that kid and he leaves him behind?? You're absolutely kidding me.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 06 August, 2015, 10:54:04 PM
The Dante saga had loads of jaw-drop moments that I thought of adding to this thread, but very few of them were actually 'twists' per se. But the revelation at the end of Tsar Wars that the mysterious 'Lord Protector' was Konstantin, back from the dead, was a good 'un.
I couldn't believe it when he lost the weapons crest.
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: Fungus on 06 August, 2015, 10:44:32 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 06 August, 2015, 10:42:18 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 06 August, 2015, 01:16:45 PM
Least favourite twist for me was the recent Harry 20 - mainly because the story as it stands does not change anything in any way whatsoever.
Eh? Am I missing something here?
Depends if you missed the nostal-tastic Sci-Fi Special a few weeks back.
Double eh?! You mean the one with Robo Hunter, Ace Trucking and Rogue Trooper?
It was in the 2015 Free Comic Book Day 2000AD
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: WhizzBang on 06 August, 2015, 08:35:59 PM
The end of the Judge Child quest seemed like twist at the time to the young me, and the episode immediately after it illustrated by Bolland and showed the council of 5 assessing Dredd's performance was quite amazing to my young mind back then.
Yes that blew me away at the time...20 odd weeks of looking for that kid and he leaves him behind?? You're absolutely kidding me.
Only ever read the Judge Child after the fact but that's still a great ending.
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: WhizzBang on 06 August, 2015, 08:35:59 PM
The end of the Judge Child quest seemed like twist at the time to the young me, and the episode immediately after it illustrated by Bolland and showed the council of 5 assessing Dredd's performance was quite amazing to my young mind back then.
Yes that blew me away at the time...20 odd weeks of looking for that kid and he leaves him behind?? You're absolutely kidding me.
Although I first read it in my second-ever reprint collection (the Titan Vol 3), I hadn't been reading 2000AD for long, and it remains the moment where Dredd became something more than a excitingly violent/funny SF strip to me. This, hard on the heels of Lopez' death and Hershey's tears, was just an astounding character moment: what being a Judge really meant.
Yes it was and still is a great ending
Sorry didn't mean to imply I didn't like it - it was just totally unexpected.
Overall, I actually think it is just about my favourite Dredd story of all time.
Quote from: TotalHack on 06 August, 2015, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: WhizzBang on 06 August, 2015, 08:35:59 PM
The end of the Judge Child quest seemed like twist at the time to the young me, and the episode immediately after it illustrated by Bolland and showed the council of 5 assessing Dredd's performance was quite amazing to my young mind back then.
Yes that blew me away at the time...20 odd weeks of looking for that kid and he leaves him behind?? You're absolutely kidding me.
Although I first read it in my second-ever reprint collection (the Titan Vol 3), I hadn't been reading 2000AD for long, and it remains the moment where Dredd became something more than a excitingly violent/funny SF strip to me. This, hard on the heels of Lopez' death and Hershey's tears, was just an astounding character moment: what being a Judge really meant.
Yeah. It's up there with a few other Dredd moments which aren't really twists as such but just jaw-droppingly unexpected acts which make perfect sense in context. Stuff like executing Griffin and the collaborators.
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:17:01 PM
Overall, I actually think it is just about my favourite Dredd story of all time.
Interesting! It's an uneven, meandering thing, but page for page it probably contains more stand-out scenes than any other epic, and certainly more variety. It uses The Cursed Earth's episodic structure but applies it with much more skill and to a far wider range of material. And I still think Ron Smith's mass-battle scenes are some of the most incredible pages ever to grace a comic.
Is it my absolute favourite? Hard to say.
At the risk of taking this thread down another avenue, we have also had unlikely teams up that you never thought would happen:
Nemesis and Torquemada in Nemesis Book 6
Dredd and Mean
Dante working for the Tsar
come most readily to mind.
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:05:57 PM
It was in the 2015 Free Comic Book Day 2000AD
Damn, too many specials. Oops.
Quote from: TotalHack on 06 August, 2015, 11:24:56 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:17:01 PM
Overall, I actually think it is just about my favourite Dredd story of all time.
Interesting! It's an uneven, meandering thing, but page for page it probably contains more stand-out scenes than any other epic, and certainly more variety. It uses The Cursed Earth's episodic structure but applies it with much more skill and to a far wider range of material. And I still think Ron Smith's mass-battle scenes are some of the most incredible pages ever to grace a comic.
Is it my absolute favourite? Hard to say.
It was my first mega epic having not been reading 2000AD when The Cursed Earth and the The Day The Law Died were published so it has a special place in my heart.
Besides that, yes I agree it has so many stand out scenes - some not even
that crucial to the plot. For example just look at that guy's face in the Texas City danger theme park thing when he is told he is going to die and the way it happens is just LOL.
Plus the art by Bolland, Ron Smith and McMahon is just some of the best ever in the Prog. Plus the Angel Gang. Plus Dredd knowing the way to get the perps to grass up the Angels (i.e. cash) and the attempt by the alien perp to mug Dredd...I could go on....
Quote from: eamonn1961 on 06 August, 2015, 08:49:16 PM
I'm still not over the reveal of Toby as the killer in Halo Jones
Nice one - forgot all about it, and (of course) brilliantly handled by Moore.
The three books work so well as they are, I can't imagine how additional books could have improved the Ballad (whether published then or now).
Quote from: Magnetica on 06 August, 2015, 11:17:01 PM
Overall, I actually think it is just about my favourite Dredd story of all time.
Love it, but I always felt that it read a little like a repurposed Strontium Dog story. With the exception of the Lopez part, I can imagine Wulf and Johnny pretty much slipping into this story with very little fuss.
Quote from: DarkDaysBish-OP on 06 August, 2015, 09:13:09 PM
I'm going to say the revelation that Benny Beeny gets himself transplanted into America's body, in Judge Dredd: America.
How the hell did I forget that? That's probably the biggest emotional punch I've felt from the house of Tharg - it actually did bring a tear to my eye when I first read it.
M
Have to admit the Vort reveal was not great as someone who had never read Lobster Random at that point :)
But despite not reading any Indigo Prime I enjoyed the Dead Eyes twist. Now if Cradlegrave had seen an Inspector Absalom show up.... I would probably not have enjoyed it that much ;)
A damn fine thread.
For me;
1) The Dead Man. The original rug-pull, and still the best. Like Greg, I was the right age for maximum impact (12 I believe).
2) Zenith Phase IV. "We are, we were, we will be The Lloigor".
3) Trifecta. Not just because it was absolutely ingenious, but the pedigree of the creators involved- Ewing, Spurrier, Williams, Flint, D'Israeli, Coleby, Critchlow- reads like a who's who of modern Thrill-Makers.
Quote from: Mikey on 07 August, 2015, 09:07:29 AMQuote from: DarkDaysBish-OP on 06 August, 2015, 09:13:09 PM
I'm going to say the revelation that Benny Beeny gets himself transplanted into America's body, in Judge Dredd: America.
How the hell did I forget that? That's probably the biggest emotional punch I've felt from the house of Tharg - it actually did bring a tear to my eye when I first read it.
And, as noted in the podcasts, you can see the surgical scar on the fourth page of the script—that episode of which drops some heavy hints about what happened that are blindingly obvious in retrospect but not necessarily when you first read; great writing.
In recent years, Trifecta. As a younger Squaxx, it was the end of Block Mania - everything has gone to hell in MC-1 and suddenly it was going to get worse.
On a much smaller scale, I remember enjoying the Trifecta-lite crossover between the first Anderson solo strip and the Dredd 'Aftermath in Ron Reagan' story. Love that the Dark Judges are on the prowl and Dredd is just assigned to clean up duties"
My favourite twist ever was the Future Shock where the guy in the bar... didn't get away, and has alien eggs in his brain.
I'd like to think I had an inkling of the Dead Man twist back in the day, but memory plays tricks.
I'd also like to recognise the brilliant artwork of John Ridgway on that story, he'd illustrated Dredd before but this had a huge amount of atmosphere and took the story exactly where it needed to be.
I haven't read Trifecta, but having read the comments it sounds pretty cool. Hope to catch up with it in the JD mega collection.
I for one, didn't see the Mad Tommy twist when first reading Bad Company.
The story was so well paced with the characters personalities very well fleshed out, the Mad Tommy and Kano Black box twist was really well done at the end.
Bad Co could have ended with the big Krool base fight (wham.. bam.. uggh) & then who lived & who died, but it was much better than that and we had another episode or two in admiration.
As for the best Dredd? It HAS to be the Dead Man. You had to be there I guess at the time to appreciate it's simple genius and jaw dropping moment.
I absolutely adored the Zenith Chimera/ Peter St John moment at the end when a simple 'Ha!' from him blew my brains out.
cheers
Si
Having just started in my big Zenith read, [spoiler]the sudden and grotesque death of Siadwell Rhys was a real "HOLY SHIT" moment.[/spoiler]
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 10 August, 2015, 09:05:50 AM
[spoiler]Having just started in my big Zenith read, [/spoiler]
Good one - after having spent the whole episode [spoiler]getting him into a state to face the enemy, you expect him to last more than a few seconds[/spoiler].
Quote from: eamonn1961 on 06 August, 2015, 08:49:16 PM
I'm still not over the reveal of Toby as the killer in Halo Jones
I was deeply scarred by the death of Toy in Halo Jones book 3 - in part because I'd only been reading 2000AD for a year or so at the time, and so hadn't really been expecting the whole "anyone can die at any moment" ethos. And in part because the whole "she's been dead for hours" thing was so jarring.
Dredd losing his eyes in City of the Damned was a bit of a shock too... though even then I figured he wasn't going to be blind from there on out, no matter how many "Justice is blind" one-liners it set up.
Quote from: sheridan on 10 August, 2015, 10:00:22 AM
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 10 August, 2015, 09:05:50 AM
[spoiler]Having just started in my big Zenith read, [/spoiler]
Good one - after having spent the whole episode [spoiler]getting him into a state to face the enemy, you expect him to last more than a few seconds[/spoiler].
'Course we
say that, as if a beloved character had completed a long road to redemption only to be cut down, but its only half-a-dozen pages over a fortnight. Characters in US comics spend longer placing their order at a drive-thru.
Quote from: TotalHack on 10 August, 2015, 04:52:53 PM
'Course we say that, as if a beloved character had completed a long road to redemption only to be cut down, but its only half-a-dozen pages over a fortnight.
It's a great bit of writing – after all the bloody hippies and ex-hippies and Tories and Nazis, with their Machiavellian schemes, Morrison introduces a proper two-fisted, no-nonsense bloke to sort things out, and our first reaction is probably much the same as Zenith's – he sounds brilliant! We really do fall for it, hence the disproportionate impact of his demise.
Also the irony of it. If Rhys had just shut up and dropped the bloody rock he would have killed Masterman.
I don't know if anything will beat the Dead Man for me - I was the exact right age to enjoy it, and there's something about the fact that Tharg was actively daring readers to guess who he really was. At the time, it could easily have been Johnny Alpha or Rogue Trooper, or indeed someone a bit more obscure like Bad Jack Keller or, hell, a golden oldie like Bill Savage or John 'Giant' Clay. That it ended up being the comic's biggest superstar was amazing.
Trifecta definitely wins it for 'most unexpected twist'.
Orlok the Assassin perhaps gets some sort of prize for being the subject of the most twists. He only actually appeared in maybe 3 episodes of Block Mania - and the fact that Block Mania was caused by Sov aggression was sort of a surprise, no? But he achieved enough fame there that his reveal in 'Age of the Wolf' was definitely played up as a big surprise, but a guessable one (as noted in the thread earlier). Then again he was a surprise villain in Triad. Then AGAIN in 'Childhood's end', where he actually pulls off a plastic face mask to show who he really is. Then AGAIN in Sin City, which didn't start off being about Sov revenge on Dredd, as I recall.
He's been dead for a decade at this point, but I wouldn't rule him out of one last surprise reveal...
I know we're not meant to include Future Shocks here, but I do love the double twist of Steve Moore's 'Slashman, Kowalski and Rat'.
Quote from: AlexF on 11 August, 2015, 01:25:20 PM
I know we're not meant to include Future Shocks here, but I do love the double twist of Steve Moore's 'Slashman, Kowalski and Rat'.
The sequel Rat story also had its own twist - guess Moore took the future shock trope literally with the Rat :-)
Quote from: AlexF on 11 August, 2015, 01:25:20 PM
[Orlok's] been dead for a decade at this point, but I wouldn't rule him out of one last surprise reveal...
He managed one soon after he died - John Smith did that story revolving around Orlok's severed hand as the macguffin everyone was chasing.
For me (if not allowed the one offs) it will always be the Deadman reveal. I was 15 and didn't see it coming. It also got me super hyped for when the countdown to Necropolis kicked in.
If I am allowed a Time Twister then my all out favourite is Alan Moores The Time Machine. I must have been about 10 and found this to be genuinely upsetting and yet also fascinating. It's a story I've returned to many times over the years and as I mature I view it very differently from when I first read it as a kid but I just seem to like it more and more.
The REdondo story? - absolutely positively brilliant - how they got away with it I will never know, but perfection
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that The Time Machine is my absolute favourite 2000AD one-off. Along with similarly-themed Ring Road and The Reversible Man, it has haunted my thoughts for more than 30 years. As Leigh says, how the hell did they get it into a kids' comic? I mean there's violence, gore, satire and sundry punk naughtiness, and then there's[spoiler] a story about killing yourself in order to relive happy moments of your past[/spoiler].
Quote from: TotalHack on 11 August, 2015, 07:54:42 PM
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that The Time Machine is my absolute favourite 2000AD one-off. Along with similarly-themed Ring Road and The Reversible Man, it has haunted my thoughts for more than 30 years.
All three of those stories were in the batch of non-consecutive 2000ADs which my neighbour gave me when I was a child. I read and re-read those until soon after I saw a prog in a shop. With brilliant timing it featured the last episodes of two of the stories that featured prominently in the progs I already had (Skizz and the Slaying of Slade). Speaking of which, didn't really work for me as it was my introductory story, but the S-L-A-Y-E-D story had [spoiler]The God Droid[/spoiler] reveal...
In addition to many of those already mentioned I'd like to give a shout out to the moment Nick Stone realises he's been on Earth all along in Meltdown Man.
Quote from: Satanist on 11 August, 2015, 04:19:02 PM
For me (if not allowed the one offs) it will always be the Deadman reveal. I was 15 and didn't see it coming. It also got me super hyped for when the countdown to Necropolis kicked in.
If I am allowed a Time Twister then my all out favourite is Alan Moores The Time Machine. I must have been about 10 and found this to be genuinely upsetting and yet also fascinating. It's a story I've returned to many times over the years and as I mature I view it very differently from when I first read it as a kid but I just seem to like it more and more.
Both of the above. (I was about 13 or 14 at the time of the Dead Man reveal, and the fact that it consisted of my brother saying 'Guess who the Dead Man is? [spoiler]Judge Dredd[/spoiler]' genuinely didn't take away from the surprise.)