Saturday Prog!
Dredd still absolutely rules, I am hugely invested in this story. The Domo stuff looks to be more or less wrapped up, but I don't think it is for a second, especially with boyd-controlling snuffbots being highlighted last week. Meanwhile Maitland really shines this week. Instead of being a passive character whilst the story awaits for Dredd to either save her or meet her end, as soon as she gets suspicious of Hernandez she basically works it all out straight away and takes steps to resolve. I think Hernandez is in trouble, and it looks like there's still a reveal to come.
The English Astronaut wraps. This felt a bit slight overall, accentuated by the art with its large panels and open backgrounds, but also an easy and enjoyable read. Not 100% sure I followed the ending but that doesn't matter.
Full Tilt Boogie also felt like a slight read this week with a lot of big, sprawling panels and light dialogue, but some terrific scenery on display and I'm still digging this.
Enemy Earth finale. I'm not unhappy this is done, but at the same time the ending did feel a bit quick - not Black Hole or Meltdown Man rushed, but I think it could have paced itself better? I hated this series when it started and although I never got into the art, on a reread I ended up finding it a decent, breathless read with soem good ideas, so the last couple of pages definitely worked for me.
Thistlebone remains fantastic. Callum looks doomed. That last panel- magnificently creepy! Can't get enough of this.
Cover by Luke Horsman:
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/H5sc44zbtCPdDFgBhDQA_4Ia_1A=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/e1/b9/129a55e7495558677aa8d38fb6741237c3e2.jpg)
Cover not one of Horsman's best, he has done a couple of good 'uns before but this looks like one of the story panels was enlarged. It looks very regened. Sorry!
Dredd - Maitland's story is brilliantly told and drawn. Love it. They could take the Dredd bits out and this tale would not suffer.
The English Astronaut. Err, ah, what? Quite enjoyed the barmy journey. Not sure about the ending. A trans allegory?
Enemy Earth agree with Boots this ended too quickly. The outcome for Jules didn't ring true for me - too neat and happy! Still pretty decent and exciting overall, I was happy to read it.
Full Tilt Boogie has that bande dessine feel, very nicely done, with some terrific double page spreads. Great addition to the prog, enjoying it so far.
And then SPOILERS we come to Thistlebone which I'm struggling with a bit. No follow up to what happened to the poor actress character who was so viciously exploited last week. Instead we get to see another character getting his face beaten in. A whole page is dedicated to this being rendered fairly realistically and explicitly. This doesn't appeal to me, no matter how beautifully painted it is. And the transition from the lighter young teen feel of the previous stories to this one is jarring, to say the least.
So good prog, only Thistlebone leaving a bad taste in the mouth.
Well a bit of a dip. In large as English Astronaut kinda just finishes without any punch or excitment, think Barrington Boots nails it
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 12 February, 2024, 10:18:07 AMThe English Astronaut wraps. This felt a bit slight overall, accentuated by the art with its large panels and open backgrounds, but also an easy and enjoyable read. Not 100% sure I followed the ending but that doesn't matter.
It just didn't do enough. Shame felt like this one had potential.
Elsewhere its very much as you where.
Dredd is immaculate - though I'm a little nervous about Maitland wondering into the lions den. Henry Flint again shows he's the GOAT.
Full Tilt Boogie looks glorious and that redeems the fact its luxuriarting in its pacing a little this week with an unnecessary double page spread.
Enemy Earth reaches its conclusion.
Thistlebone - sweet mother of God... well not God at all - this is unholy creepy goodness. Just magnificent.
I enjoyed this one, despite some minor shortcomings. The logo on the cover is fun. The cover itself feels a bit messy. Also: more Scarlet Traces previewed, and Kek-W back with two strips next week – Indigo Prime and Deadworld.
Dredd remains superb. Six episodes in and it's still coiled like a snake, ready to strike. But I don't know where it's going to go, which is the best kind of story. Again, I have a feeling of crushing inevitability about Maitland, but maybe not?
3rillers has some great individual scenes, but the art again feels a bit too sparse for me. The strip for me needs a re-read to see how it all hangs together. More broadly, it feels a bit multiverse: fuck around with time and you create spurs. Return to your time and the spurs remain, but you can potentially change your own timeline's future. Dunno about the trans thing. I mean, maybe? I just got the impression it was more than multiple possibilities could mean anything, given that one of the characters was an otter, one was a dinosaur and one was a literal cartoon character.
Full Tilt Boogie was rather more straightforward and, well, very little happened. It looks lovely, and I'm glad 2000 AD affords strips the ability to shake up the pace. But I can't help feeling this one would have been better served with a two-parter in a single Prog at this stage.
Enemy Earth almost felt like Meltdown Man: "OK, stop now". It felt like a very quick wrap up but perhaps there's little point in labouring the point. It would have been nice to get perhaps one more page, though, entirely devoted to things turning back. That little picture of a bird reverting to form – OK. But far more of that would have been great – and a helpful contrast to the penultimate page.
Thistlebone: indeed this continues to be horrific in multiple ways. I can certainly see where Fink is coming from. But it's still working well enough for me, and finally we get that little hint in the final frame.
Dredd > Full Tilt > Thistlebone > Enemy Earth > 3hriller for me this week. And, honestly, a bit of a gap between each.
A good solid prog, looking forward for the return of Indigo Prime
Dredd – The focus is now back on Maitland, and she is not taking it on the chin she is doing her own investigation into Hernandez. Not sure where we are going but I am totally invested in the journey.
3riller – For me this was a missed opportunity it feels like the story ended with a meaningless ending. Not sure what the end message is supposed to convey.
Full Tilt Boogie – This is one of those episodes where nothing really happens (could have been on or two panels). I wanted more but I think this one is more to show of some great artwork. Do not get me wrong, I am enjoying this. Nothing wrong with a slow burner episode.
Enemy Earth – Overall the ending is quite predictable but at least it ends in a good way. The last page focuses on the characters rather than the world which in my books makes for the better ending. The series as a whole was not always to my liking, and I am sure I will never re-read this. My biggest gripe will always be the art, not my favorite.
Thistlebone – Some really disturbing images as the jitters continue. This is what horror stories should be slowly but steadily creeping towards the final stab. The last panel is our reveal.
Quote from: Le Fink on 12 February, 2024, 07:18:55 PMAnd the transition from the lighter young teen feel of the previous stories to this one is jarring, to say the least.
So good prog, only Thistlebone leaving a bad taste in the mouth.
Got to disagree. It was the other way about for me, Thislebone is exactly what I'd want from my Prog while the previous two teen/regened thrills I've been skipping the last couple o weeks.
Dredd top thrill still, again this is what I come the the hem of Tharg's garments for.
The bad news that Deedworld is is returning is balanced by the top news that Scarlet Traces is returning Yah! Tharg, let's make the hardback Trade match the previous 3 please!! :-X
The English Astronaut felt like a severely cut down version of Paul Cornell's novel 'British Summertime'. But while the book is about something very serious and material (climate change), the point here seems to be a much more nebulous "modern life is confusing/rubbish/full of people disagreeing with me".
I think that's spot on. I enjoyed the first two episodes of the 3riller, but the last one was confusing, and that's the kindest word I have for it.
Anyone else get a Rev. Ian Paisley vibe from the Bishop of the Reformed Church of Grud and Guns in Dredd?
Quote from: Proudhuff on 14 February, 2024, 01:25:17 PMQuote from: Le Fink on 12 February, 2024, 07:18:55 PMAnd the transition from the lighter young teen feel of the previous stories to this one is jarring, to say the least.
So good prog, only Thistlebone leaving a bad taste in the mouth.
Got to disagree. It was the other way about for me, Thislebone is exactly what I'd want from my Prog while the previous two teen/regened thrills I've been skipping the last couple o weeks.
Fair enough! To be fair it is a high quality story and I would like but these occasional hardcore panels put me off. While the previous ones (broken leg; terrified, naked, noosed woman) at least moved the story on I think this week's is a bit gratuitous - it was perfectly clear what had happened to the guy from the hospital-based panels. The whole face punchy page could have been removed with no detriment to the story, IMO. I feel like it's only in there 'cos the creatives want to put an OTT image in each episode to wind me up
Quote from: Proudhuff on 14 February, 2024, 01:25:17 PMQuote from: Le Fink on 12 February, 2024, 07:18:55 PMAnd the transition from the lighter young teen feel of the previous stories to this one is jarring, to say the least.
Got to disagree. It was the other way about for me, Thislebone is exactly what I'd want from my Prog while the previous two teen/regened thrills I've been skipping the last couple o weeks.
And to be clear, I'm not saying I
prefer the teen-aimed stuff to the more adult oriented fare like Dredd (although I can understand why anyone might think that's what I was saying). I'm saying the prog is almost schizophrenic having 3 stories aimed at younger types and two strips being adult, one of the adult strips being
very adult IMO. And that to me makes this current prog line up seem a bit weird.
Quoteit was perfectly clear what had happened to the guy from the hospital-based panels. The whole face punchy page could have been removed with no detriment to the story, IMO.
That's true, but to be fair, one of the reasons I read 2000AD (not the only reason, but one of the main ones) is for the violence, and I'm probably not the only one, and Tharg presumably knows that.
Quote from: Richard on 14 February, 2024, 04:31:32 PMQuoteit was perfectly clear what had happened to the guy from the hospital-based panels. The whole face punchy page could have been removed with no detriment to the story, IMO.
That's true, but to be fair, one of the reasons I read 2000AD (not the only reason, but one of the main ones) is for the violence, and I'm probably not the only one, and Tharg presumably knows that.
Hum yes point taken and let's face it, me too... I just prefer it more fantastical. Like Hard Boiled (the film and actually the comic if I think about it) is incredibly violent but in a silly way. It's been a little too real in Thistlebone for my taste.
Don't worry I'll shut up about it now!
Quote from: Le Fink on 12 February, 2024, 07:18:55 PMThe English Astronaut. Err, ah, what? Quite enjoyed the barmy journey. Not sure about the ending. A trans allegory?
A very obvious
Quantum Leap reference, but why?
Two phenomenal stories bookending a trio of lighter strips. It's a shame The English Astronaut was a bit sketchy, both in script and art - the concept was strong and if it were a bit tighter I think it could have supported a longer run. Full Tilt Boogie, by comparison, is able to unfold at a more leisurely pace. Love the flora and fauna detail in the three panels at the bottom of the third page, very nice. Yes, the montage on the second page of Thistlebone looked a bit gratuitous but more importantly, I think, though the elements were as evocatively rendered as one would expect from the Davis droid, the overall layout wasn't particularly well realised. Great stuff overall, though.
I really enjoyed Thistlebone this week.
< Post >
Quote from: Link Prime on 15 February, 2024, 02:40:28 PMI really enjoyed Thistlebone this week.
< Post >
I'm waiting till I can read it all complete
Dredd is great. One of the best in recent times.
The English Astronaut wasn't great.
I like FTB. The art is nice and I'm happy enough with letting the story develop.
Enemy Earth does nothing for me. Glad it's finished.
Thistleboneis great.
Now that The English Astronaut has finished I've gone back to re-read it. TBH it didn't really seem to land that well.
The overall concept seems reasonable enough. Admittedly it is a fairly well-trodden "investigating the future to prevent a catastrophe" framework, it starts out fairly soundly. Whether the significance of the dates lies in the Whoniverse is a little unclear. Certainly it is fair to say that there are strong links to Dr Who in the tale, parallels with UNIT and so on.
Then of course there are the cultural divergences. Shifting from modern protest through historical schisms and into full-blown cultural-icon manifestations seems a bit chaotic. There is a definite sense of dislocation and discontinuity in the tale. The shape of the modern comics industry seems to take a bit of pasting in that middle episode with talks of 'porny comics' and 'fifty quid statues'. There is also the play with the standard scientific and military types. Archetypes that are pretty much the staple of Dr Who at times and quite a bit of British Sci-Fi to boot. Throw in a flying saucer and a giant cat being attacked by (Sherlock Holmes / Alan Turing / Quatermass?) and it is chaotic and then some.
It's hard to figure out whether Cornell is being incredibly clever or quite lazy. The tale closes with a character as confused as the reader. There is no real sense of closure, is that the point though? Major Thomas Anderson never returned home but someone has, possibly? Is that closing scene the modern day or the time at the start of the tale? It ends with a fairly standard "and then he / she woke up ..." that has the potential to simply negate everything that went before. It sort of undermines the whole story to some extent.
Overall it feels overloaded as a tale. A little too much going on and not enough thought given to getting across the central idea. It's still a little unclear what that idea actually is. Is it questioning the possibility of achieving change? There may well be multiple realities but ultimately we only ever inhabit one? Why are we fighting over ideas rather than trying to find lasting solutions? All of these at the same time?
It's a provocative tale to be sure but perhaps not for the right reasons.
Two thrills came to an end. I probably won't miss either of them. Enemy Earth kind of grew on me, due to its sheer energy. Really can't get along with the art style though. The English Astronaut ended a bit of a mess I thought.
Both replaced by the Kek-W power hour next prog which really doesn't thrill me. I've found that droid's scripts completely impenetrable and inaccessible over the last couple of years.
Thank TMO the rest of the prog is so strong. Loving Full Tilt Boogie , Thistlebone is horrible (in a good way) and Dredd is just perfection.
I have to admit I skip more and more these days. Probably to my own detriment but I just find it hard to get into a lot of the strips in my old age.
Right now I'm only reading Dredd and Thistlebone with any real conviction but just those two are worth the cover price.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 16 February, 2024, 07:19:26 PM[...] and it is chaotic and then some.
During the second part it dawned that the years 1989, 2005 and 2016 also correspond (respectively) with the creation of the World-Wide Web, launch of YouTube & Facebook (under that name), and launch of TikTok. Is the whole thing a commentary that social media leads to the fragmentation and breakdown of reality? It would certainly explain the "after 2016 it all goes downhill" comment in the first part.
I didn't think Thistlebone was being gratuitous. It's all about getting inside the character's head. He's woken up in hospital, confused and in pain. Suddenly, he's flashing back to the attack. The confusion in the second page, with a lack of panel borders, and flashing back to past, present, past, past, pills - lets us experience the confusion and the fear that he's reliving.
This then let's us understand better his disgust when the director rocks up and basically tells him he deserved it, and that being gay isn't a decent way to behave.
Removing the second page would be to dilute some incredible storytelling, and actually some of the most responsible depictions of violence in the comic. (Compare it to Dredd's rather blunt "I thumped the bad man and made everything better".)
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 24 February, 2024, 04:58:40 AMI didn't think Thistlebone was being gratuitous. It's all about getting inside the character's head. He's woken up in hospital, confused and in pain. Suddenly, he's flashing back to the attack. The confusion in the second page, with a lack of panel borders, and flashing back to past, present, past, past, pills - lets us experience the confusion and the fear that he's reliving.
This then let's us understand better his disgust when the director rocks up and basically tells him he deserved it, and that being gay isn't a decent way to behave.
Removing the second page would be to dilute some incredible storytelling, and actually some of the most responsible depictions of violence in the comic. (Compare it to Dredd's rather blunt "I thumped the bad man and made everything better".)
I think the main motivation for these particular panels (broken leg, noosed naked woman, face punches) is more homage to Hammer/
giallo films myself, rather than storytelling, or getting in the victim's head. They're all from the perspective of the aggressor, or a voyeur, rather than the victim and are intended to be fetishtic.
In the films those scenes are there for shock value and/or audience titillation. Often they're the only reason for watching the film in the first place! This chapter of Thistlebone is evoking those movies, so they've decided to put some similarly provocative scenes in. Which is fair enough. It just happens to take me out of the story a bit. Unlike those films, Thistlebone is interesting and wonderful enough without resorting to those tactics.
As to responsible depictions of violence, this is 2000AD, not
Crisis. I prefer unrealistic violence - A large THUD! accompanying a ridiculously OTT daystick strike is one of the reasons I come here.
Quote from: Le Fink on 25 February, 2024, 08:23:01 AMI prefer unrealistic violence - A large THUD! accompanying a ridiculously OTT daystick strike is one of the reasons I come here.
This brought to mind my Dredd art stars entry. Here it is, tidied up a bit. It's a whap rather than a thud.
(https://i.imgur.com/jRLMKW3.jpeg)
Lovely work, Le Fink.
Just to return to Indigo Prime (the story, not the forum member):
Sorry if I'm being thick, but in this particular universe, is Johnny Depth an actor but Patrick Bateman a real person, albeit one who looks like the Christian Bale of our universe?
Also, because I can't really remember the details of the last few stories, us there a reason why Tyranny Rex looks way more alien than she used to?
Quote from: Le Fink on 25 February, 2024, 08:23:01 AMI think the main motivation for these particular panels (broken leg, noosed naked woman, face punches) is more homage to Hammer/giallo films myself, rather than storytelling, or getting in the victim's head. They're all from the perspective of the aggressor, or a voyeur, rather than the victim and are intended to be fetishtic.
Ah, we're just reading it differently. Fair enough.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 25 February, 2024, 05:17:27 PMSorry if I'm being thick, but in this particular universe, is Johnny Depth an actor but Patrick Bateman a real person, albeit one who looks like the Christian Bale of our universe?
That's my reading of it, yes. (Clive Vista looks like someone famous, as well, but I can't place it.)
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 25 February, 2024, 05:17:27 PMAlso, because I can't really remember the details of the last few stories, us there a reason why Tyranny Rex looks way more alien than she used to?
No reason given - it looks like a character redesign. We last saw her in prog 2270 - with yellow eyes and some cranial ridges (or perhaps green dreads). Before that she seemed more like a normal humanoid but with a big lizard tail. (Given the milieu, this could be an alt-Rex, of course.)
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 25 February, 2024, 06:24:41 PMQuote from: Le Fink on 25 February, 2024, 08:23:01 AMI think the main motivation for these particular panels (broken leg, noosed naked woman, face punches) is more homage to Hammer/giallo films myself, rather than storytelling, or getting in the victim's head. They're all from the perspective of the aggressor, or a voyeur, rather than the victim and are intended to be fetishtic.
Ah, we're just reading it differently. Fair enough.
I'm not getting the fetishistic thing myself, but I suppose it could be argued that both ways of reading it are equally valid, given that the entire story is about the intersection/parallels of real and fictional horror.
I like that way of reading it (both ideas being valid), because then it's even more brilliant than I thought.
Just as well it's positioned in the last pages of the comic, because nobody would want to follow that.
(I was at a conference recently, and one of the speakers made us laugh, made us cry, sang to us and smashed a chair to pieces to demonstrate how filled with rage he was as a young man railing against injustice. The guy on after him was just blinking into the headlights of the turd reality had just served him.)
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 25 February, 2024, 06:24:41 PMQuote from: Le Fink on 25 February, 2024, 08:23:01 AMI think the main motivation for these particular panels (broken leg, noosed naked woman, face punches) is more homage to Hammer/giallo films myself, rather than storytelling, or getting in the victim's head. They're all from the perspective of the aggressor, or a voyeur, rather than the victim and are intended to be fetishtic.
Ah, we're just reading it differently. Fair enough.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 25 February, 2024, 05:17:27 PMSorry if I'm being thick, but in this particular universe, is Johnny Depth an actor but Patrick Bateman a real person, albeit one who looks like the Christian Bale of our universe?
That's my reading of it, yes. (Clive Vista looks like someone famous, as well, but I can't place it.)
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 25 February, 2024, 05:17:27 PMAlso, because I can't really remember the details of the last few stories, us there a reason why Tyranny Rex looks way more alien than she used to?
No reason given - it looks like a character redesign. We last saw her in prog 2270 - with yellow eyes and some cranial ridges (or perhaps green dreads). Before that she seemed more like a normal humanoid but with a big lizard tail. (Given the milieu, this could be an alt-Rex, of course.)
Thanks! I was wondering. I would have thought Bateman was a copyrighted character, though I suppose they haven't given his full name yet.