*Or should that be Aggro is a way of life for Judge Dredd.
There should be a lot to say about this. Its an excellent comic. The framing sequence is cute fun. All the strips are winners. All the strips are so frustrating and as they provide excellent set-up for stories I'd love to see, but for now don't expect to see more of.
Overall though I have pretty much the same thing to say about them all, so its all rather simple.
Judge (Cadet) Dredd - fantastic, retool this a little and this is exactly what we should have in Regened.
Death Game 2049 - great fun, retool this a bit and this is exactly what we should have in Regened.
El Mestizo Oh I need to know were this goes. Retool this a bit and this is exactly what we should have in Regened.
Dredger fun, with a bit more retooling this would be perfect in Regened.
Hellman of Hellforce who doesn't want Tank warfare in Hell vs Nazi - but of work and this would... of you get it by now don't you.
Major Eazy a gun toting anti-authoritarian Indiana Jones - Regened is crying out for this.
Now I think you get my point. Regened has been struggling for strips that work this last year and possible budgets don't stretch to the talent on display in this issue BUT what we see quite clearly here is the ideas to make Regened work again are there and happily on display in this very issue!
Good fun, great fun in fact but very frustrating.
Cover by Cliff Robinson:
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/XAqJ1QVe_jEvyMa7Lh8AZZXhkP8=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/fa/d0/0b8ec64e6c6089d4b42c0023817d15d04df4.jpeg)
Now I'm confused, that's not the cover I've got.
Lots to enjoy here though, great fun so far, I'm off to read the rest of it.
Subscribers gets a different cover:
(https://i0.wp.com/www.comicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/e0f056ad-0003-5fcf-1c6d-63b033721ebc.png?resize=768%2C923&ssl=1)
An I see. Thanks.
Both look so good that I'm going to have to go out and buy the other one when it hits the shops.
Is the Meg also participating in this? I thought the crossover covered both titles, but the ad for the next Megazine made it look like just a regular issue.
The meg is part of it but a lesser sense than last year's cross-over. The regular stories like Lawless, Dreadnoughts and Spector is still in the meg.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 16 September, 2023, 12:20:35 PMfantastic, retool this a little and this is exactly what we should have in Regened.
Haha I read it this morning and had the same thought. Some really enjoyable fun and nasty stuff!
Dredd/Juves, El Mestizo, Hellman, Easy, I'd like to see more of. Dredger and Death Game not so much.
The thought bubbles and the over-narration... I get why but would hope those could be left behind if there's a chance these continue.
Quote from: scrotnig on 16 September, 2023, 02:28:18 PMAn I see. Thanks.
Both look so good that I'm going to have to go out and buy the other one when it hits the shops.
Yeah think I might end up doing the same! Damnit!
Quote from: nxylas on 16 September, 2023, 02:37:04 PMIs the Meg also participating in this? I thought the crossover covered both titles, but the ad for the next Megazine made it look like just a regular issue.
Quote from: broodblik on 16 September, 2023, 02:39:36 PMThe meg is part of it but a lesser sense than last year's cross-over. The regular stories like Lawless, Dreadnoughts and Spector is still in the meg.
Yeah this Meg is running its own strips. There's not a through cutting a story in the way the zombie thing had. Rather it takes the theme of reimaging Battle Action strips if it and 2000ad had merged and as Tharg puts it in the framing sequence they went all Blackhawk on the strips coming in. So each strip is an entirely independent introduction to what might have been and the Meg will have Dreddverse versions of Rat Pack, Darkie's Mob and Johnny Red. I imagine it will all be great fun.
Just finished this week's prog and I have to say ... wow! It's been a while since this much thrill-age has landed on the doormat in one go. I have to agree with Colin on Dredd and possibly Death Game. Not so sure about the score with regards to El mestizo and Dredger as Regened candidates but the Dredd / Kids Rule Okay! mash up is another level. Niemand has really delivered on this one and Coleby's artwork is astounding. Love some of the block-names too - Cameron Block Oinkers! That's how I like my satire served!
I would have to say that Hellman and Major Eazy have probably captured the potential for a supernatural strip far better than recent efforts such as Portal of (resist the urge to descend to juvenilia here replacing the G with a P). Yes there is the obvious trope of Nazi interest in the supernatural that Inbana Jones tapped so well with the Raiders of the Lost Ark (and which my mother has NEVER forgiven me for conning them into seeing ...). Both do the job equally well but I do wonder if Eazy suffered from following on the heels of Hellman.
If I'm honest though I found myself very much minded of some of Stross' Laundry novels whilst reading Hellman. Not saying that is a bad thing, if anything I would have to say that Wyatt is picking up on a strong concept that has considerable mileage. perhaps that is the other reason Eazy comes across as slightly weaker? Don't know. Who cares. The emphasis has to be very much on slightly with Holden and Wyatt (channelling his inner Flint) on art duties the difference is wafer thin.
Arguably it is the art that lifts Dredger and El Mestizo though. Weston is on form with that strip and delivers a rattling story in terms of pace. Was it a bit of a missed opportunity though? What would have been really interesting would be to see this reframed in terms of the original concept for Dredd. That would have been an 'else worlds tale' worth reading. This though ... It felt slightly more than a little forced.
Then the same sorts of ideas are played out in Dredger. Granted it works better and Marshall as always delivers some cracking art. Unfortunately there is a bit of an issue in terms of overlapping core concepts to deal with. This time though I would have to say that Dredger works far better with it. Mind you, this is me being insanely pedantic.
Like I say, as a prog this is one that delivers in spades. It's packed with cracking ideas, amazing artwork and a mixture of the familiar and new. Certainly the strongest it's been for a while for my money.
I still love the "chrome" logo of the 1980s. I'm sorry. I've read all the arguments against it, but I still love it. Delighted to see it in the main Prog again after all this time. And it works so well on that cover.
Sorry. I know it's not a fashionable view to have.
Extra points for "499p Earth Money" as well.
Quote from: scrotnig on 16 September, 2023, 09:05:44 PMI still love the "chrome" logo of the 1980s. I'm sorry. I've read all the arguments against it, but I still love it.
Moi aussi.
Just read it, thought it was good stuff. Chris Weston's one was my favourite. But I'd happily read a whole series of Hellman of Hell Force!
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 16 September, 2023, 11:37:58 PMQuote from: scrotnig on 16 September, 2023, 09:05:44 PMI still love the "chrome" logo of the 1980s. I'm sorry. I've read all the arguments against it, but I still love it.
Moi aussi.
Always was my favourite logo. when I think of 2000AD I think this logo.
(https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.4481356128.7657/raf,360x360,075,t,fafafa:ca443f4786.jpg)
I also love classic credit card
My favourite too. Seeing it against the black, two thoughts occur to me.
First, the three lines at the bottom are graphic design genius. They give heft and weight to what would otherwise be a quite flat logo.
Second, this looks like a knuckle-duster.
(https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.4481356128.7657/raf,360x360,075,t,fafafa:ca443f4786.jpg)
I don't know that it's my favourite logo, but it was the logo during probably my favourite era of 2000AD.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 September, 2023, 02:22:38 PMSecond, this looks like a knuckle-duster.
They missed a trick here - free knuckle-duster with every prog!
http://2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=2000ad&choice=2023
We should start a campaign to bring the Chrome logo back!
Agree with pretty much eveyrthing here. Great Prog. The non-sub cover is so good it's worth picking up a copy I reckon!
Highlights for me were Dredd, Hellman and Major Eazy. The latter two in particular, for me, nailed the breathless action & largely bloodless violence feel of old comics and action films from my youth. I agree that these three in particular are miles better than 99% of Regened but I'd happily read these in the Prog or Meg proper.
Lovely art in El Mestizo too.
Very enjoyable Prog indeed!
Brilliant prog! I am not the biggest fan of Battle / Action, but it turned out what was missing was the germ of SF to make the strips exactly what I enjoy reading! 2000AD is known for taking popular themes / other media stories and adding a spin to make a fun new story. Who knew doing that for their own properties would be so successful! More please!
This is definitely one of the finest progs in a long time!
Who knew this would work so well?
A superb prog. Gave me 'Prog 500' flashbacks!
Damn, that was a good prog. Every single strip sung.
What are the chances of a Battle Action Tooth prog every quarter or six months a la Regened? Too many plates to keep spinning I imagine but I'd love to see follow ups to every one of these stories.
Special shout out to the Tharg Nerve Centre framing device that topped and tailed the prog. A succinct and clever explainer.
Oh man, I'm looking forward to this. It's a huge buzz to see the old chrome logo on again, and Cliff Robinson who I'm pretty sure did quite a few covers the last time that logo was in regular use.
I was a sci fi and fantasy kid and didn't have a whole lot of time for the old war comics, but by grud I have a lot of time for them now.
What an awesome prog but I have one major issue with this prog and it is quite simple when can we have more of this.
Alternative cover by Andy Clarke:
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/9FINAL-784x1024.jpg)
Still progless here. Bah. The Meg arrived ages ago. Strange for the Prog to be this late.
This didn't work for me - I vaguely remember battle action and some of the strips but not all so it was all a bit random to me.
What a wonderful prog!
As many have said, I'd be very happy indeed for some of these strips to continue (albeit in their own little bubble universe, outside of the main continuities).
Only one that didn't really click for me was Hellman of Hell Force, but the idea is still solid. I'd still happily take more!
Extra oil rations for whichever droid came up with this idea, and hats off to all the droids involved in creating this one. You all played a blinder!
Quote from: Woolly on 20 September, 2023, 05:10:08 PMOnly one that didn't really click for me was Hellman of Hell Force,
-- spoiler --
I was hoping the prisoners in the cages would turn out to be Constanta and his Fiends. But happy with how this panned out.
Quote from: JudgeJudi on 20 September, 2023, 04:24:58 PMThis didn't work for me - I vaguely remember battle action and some of the strips but not all so it was all a bit random to me.
I read Action regularly, but was only an occasional Battle reader, usually when I found a copy in a doctor's waiting room or similar. It didn't matter to me, as the strips didn't really rely on memories of the originals. Presumably if the merger had happened in real life, the stories would have been unfamiliar to a significant number of the 2000AD readership.
Quote from: nxylas on 20 September, 2023, 05:54:02 PMPresumably if the merger had happened in real life, the stories would have been unfamiliar to a significant number of the 2000AD readership.
True. I'd never read a single issue of Tornado when that merger happened... but I remember being creeped the fuck out by several episodes of 'Wolfie Smith'* and 'Blackhawk' became a solid favourite as the series went on and it leaned more and more heavily into just giving Bellardinelli increasingly weird shit to draw.
*"Freedom for Tooting!"
I'm going to have to say it... I wish they would use the chrome logo on the regular Prog again... along with all the other stuff like the "Earth money" and "in orbit every Wednesday" etc.
I know it won't happen. But having seen it, it reminds me just how great the progs of that era looked. That *is* 2000AD for me. It looked like that for a very long time, and it was fantastic throughout. I don't think that look has dated at all (whereas the recreation of the very first logo, as used on Regened, DOES look dated for some reason).
Bring back the Chrome logo! The campaign starts here! (Even though it will likely be a one man campaign that everyone will laugh at).
I liked this but it kicked off my inner pedant, a little nagging voice that kept saying that if Battle had been merged into 2000AD in 1982 then none of the featured strips would have made the cut. 'El Mestizo', 'Hellman' et al hadn't been in Battle for years by that point and mergers always picked up current strips. 2000AD and Battle in 1982 would have had skiffy spins on 'Truck Turpin' and 'The Fists of Jimmy Chang' not 'Dredger'.
It also gives the impression that Tharg would have dropped 'Charley's War', which would be almost as wrong as trying to give it a Tooth spin.
But now I'm wondering what would have happened if 2000AD, not Eagle, had swallowed up Scream! in 1984 and if Tharg wants to have a crack at that for Prog 2400.
Quote from: scrotnig on 20 September, 2023, 10:18:46 PMBring back the Chrome logo! The campaign starts here! (Even though it will likely be a one man campaign that everyone will laugh at).
Second
Quote from: The Corinthian on 20 September, 2023, 11:45:14 PM2000AD and Battle in 1982 would have had skiffy spins on 'Truck Turpin' and 'The Fists of Jimmy Chang' not 'Dredger'.
Grab a copy of The Meg - Jimmy makes quite a significant appearance.
Quote from: broodblik on 21 September, 2023, 03:52:45 AMQuote from: scrotnig on 20 September, 2023, 10:18:46 PMBring back the Chrome logo! The campaign starts here! (Even though it will likely be a one man campaign that everyone will laugh at).
Second
Thirded
I prefer the rectangular logo which came after it. The current logo resembles that. But I agree that the chrome logo would look better on the Regened progs than the 1977 one.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 16 September, 2023, 05:59:09 PMas a prog this is one that delivers in spades. It's packed with cracking ideas, amazing artwork and a mixture of the familiar and new. Certainly the strongest it's been for a while for my money
Just want to join the chorus echoing this sentiment. Last prog rightly got a lot of plaudits here for the bleak tone of some very adult stories but to be perfectly honest... this is what we want.
This is 2000 AD. This captures its tone and spirit perfectly. Short, sharp strips absolutely bursting with with Action. Ideal for the regular prog, ideal for Regened. We talk a lot here about the rights and wrongs of Regened, but maybe we actually need to look at the regular progs and see what needs to change. For me, these one-shot format stories are spot-on. To be honest I don't read 2000 AD for protracted, slow-burn epics. Sure, it's great when something like Brink comes along and takes that idea to the extreme. But for the most part my prog is all about that 15 minutes of concentrated thrill-power that ignites my Wednesdays, and this crossover has fulfilled that function perfectly.
Maybe 2000 AD has grown up a little bit too much and needs to rediscover its youth.
Quote from: The Corinthian on 20 September, 2023, 11:45:14 PMI liked this but it kicked off my inner pedant, a little nagging voice that kept saying that if Battle had been merged into 2000AD in 1982 then none of the featured strips would have made the cut.
My inner pedant chafed more at the Spielberg reference.
Raiders of the Lost Ark came out in 1981.
Quote from: nxylas on 21 September, 2023, 12:34:55 PMQuote from: The Corinthian on 20 September, 2023, 11:45:14 PMI liked this but it kicked off my inner pedant, a little nagging voice that kept saying that if Battle had been merged into 2000AD in 1982 then none of the featured strips would have made the cut.
My inner pedant chafed more at the Spielberg reference. Raiders of the Lost Ark came out in 1981.
And this What If merger happens in 1982 or 83. The set-up Tharg story even begins 'Another 1982'.
Not sure what problem you're highlighting here.
Quote from: JudgeJudi on 20 September, 2023, 04:24:58 PMThis didn't work for me - I vaguely remember battle action and some of the strips but not all so it was all a bit random to me.
I must say that I agree with the above and that I didn't like it too much. Maybe it's just me, as it seems to have gone down well with most on the forum.
Quote from: GordonR on 21 September, 2023, 12:42:19 PMNot sure what problem you're highlighting here.
The point of divergence retroactively affecting events that happened before it. Indiana Jones already existed in this timeline, so your version of Major Easy would still be seen as "2000AD does Indiana Jones". Which is fine, 2000AD has always responded to trends in popular culture (in fact, I'm surprised they didn't do something similar at the time), but it still seems unlikely that Spielberg would abandon his own creation in favour of an imitator.
So the problem is a throwaway joke ref in a Tharg story, where the comic reallly is edited by an alien?
Got it.
How is that worse than 2000AD does Dirty Harry?
Quote from: scrotnig on 20 September, 2023, 10:18:46 PMI'm going to have to say it... I wish they would use the chrome logo on the regular Prog again... along with all the other stuff like the "Earth money" and "in orbit every Wednesday" etc.
Whilst I thoroughly agree that the old chrome logo is arsom, I wouldn't really want it to make a comeback.
What's a brilliant bit of nostalgic design for us, would probably be considered a bit naff by the youthsters.
The Judge Dredd logo on the other hand... reinstate it now please Tharg! It still works better than any other Dredd logo we've had, in my rose-tinted fanboy opinion!
Loved it, really enjoyable and i would definitely follow some those stories to completion but it really works as palette cleanser in contrast to the normal prog. Definitely prefer this to the regened enforced break, which should spin off as a monthly imo.
Quote from: Richard on 21 September, 2023, 04:13:29 PMHow is that worse than 2000AD does Dirty Harry?
It isn't, and I said as much. Like Gordon said, it was a throwaway joke, and I don't want to make too big a deal of it. It just kind of jumped out at me a bit, the sort of thing that might appear in the "goofs" section of its IMDb page if it was a movie.
Quote from: Woolly on 21 September, 2023, 04:22:25 PMQuote from: scrotnig on 20 September, 2023, 10:18:46 PMI'm going to have to say it... I wish they would use the chrome logo on the regular Prog again... along with all the other stuff like the "Earth money" and "in orbit every Wednesday" etc.
Whilst I thoroughly agree that the old chrome logo is arsom, I wouldn't really want it to make a comeback.
What's a brilliant bit of nostalgic design for us, would probably be considered a bit naff by the youthsters.
The Judge Dredd logo on the other hand... reinstate it now please Tharg! It still works better than any other Dredd logo we've had, in my rose-tinted fanboy opinion!
Yet the Regened progs use an even older logo...
I agree on the Dredd logo. That's not a nostalgia thing, I just feel the Dredd logos used since just don't really work.
I have to say I laughed at the bit in the framing story when one of the execs at Battle Action said "Huh, they'll be asking for a bl**dy toy tie-in next!"
I was actually reading Battle Action at the time when it virtually became an "in-house" magazine for the Action Force toys :)
I'd definitely like to see more of Juves Rule OK! and Hellman
This prog was fantastic. I'd love to see some of these stories getting extended beyond a one off.
My Prog finally arrived late yesterday. I'm not sure what to make of it. I think, on balance, I prefer the Meg, not because the stories were better, but because less was left hanging. I get that this issue of 2000 AD was kind of an elseworlds thing – a what if? But it's frustrating that almost every strip ends on something tantalising when we won't get anything further. (Heaven knows what lapsed or new readers are going to think when they pick up 2351.)
Personally, I'm not sure I agree with the suggestions these strips are regained fare. Perhaps Death Game and Dredger. The others had a somewhat 2000 AD classic era feel, but it's hard to see melting adults or Nazis vs demons in that publication. And although others have suggested perhaps that's what we should see, I'd also argue the majority of these strips could slot into the Prog now. So the differentiation is slim.
Dredd worked well, playing on the Dredd/Rico rivalry in a manner that makes Cadet Dredd look even more toothless and dull than it is. Plus Dredd can just be Dredd, without leaving him in this weird place where he's supposed to be heroic and moral, yet lumbering him with being a stick in the mud joy-killer. Great art, too, as you'd expect from Coleby.
Sports SF leaves me a bit cold in comic form, but Death Game was the best modern effort I've seen. Far better than everything we've seen in Rebellion's other attempts to do this sort of thing of late. And then El Mestizo had some lovely art and a solid strip. Despite the cliffhanger, this was the strip I felt worked best as a standalone.
I never cared for Dredger much in his original incarnation. But this worked nicely, going full Blackhawk (as per the Tharg strip). 70s gun-happy spy in a future that claims to have done away with crime is a mite tropey. But it strikes me you could have a lot of fun with this one, with a very 2000 AD spin on Demolition Man.
Hellman was for me the concept that has the most legs in the modern world of 2000 AD. I'd quite happily see this continue in next week's prog, to see where it goes. Perhaps Tharg will recommission some of these strips. Who knows?
And then Major Easy wraps things up, with some fab art, a breezy script, and the second best of this issue's stories in the sense of working as a standalone story.
In all, then, this was in many ways a very strong Prog, even if the concept and final execution was a bit frustrating to me. It's perhaps a good sign I wanted more of these strips; but it's a pity that's unlikely to happen.
Quote from: Richard on 21 September, 2023, 10:35:34 AMI prefer the rectangular logo which came after it. The current logo resembles that. But I agree that the chrome logo would look better on the Regened progs than the 1977 one.
My thoughts exactly - I was happy enough to see the new (now old) 'fan' one, and loved the way the covers told the story of the old Yule logo being burned for Christmas, and Dredd threatening a perp for trying to remove the new one.
The real problems arose when the logos seemed to be designed by a trawl through the coolest fonts on the web.
For me, the chrome one brings a warm sentimental glow, but it's just nostalgia and the slimline simplicity of the now-standard red and white one wins out. But definitely keep it handy for the Regened progs.
This logo was my least favourite:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2EAkea3hySjrlcbn-RVK8vxxrKQ6MLwPBhA&usqp=CAU)
From Chris Weston:
Five years ago I created this tribute piece to Carlos Ezquerra featuring his creations. Something in it gave me an idea.... and five years later...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6nusUaXYAAM3TI?format=jpg&name=large)
Don't want to be that guy, but colour me a fan of the current logo. It's simple, stylish and resplendent in white yet unobtrusive enough not to distract from the cover art. Don't get me wrong, the other logos were great for their eras but this is absolutely the right thing for the current iteration.
I think I'd be a lot happier with the current logo if it was used on the Prog as JUST the logo, as it was when it was first brought back in its current form when Rebellion first took over.
I thought that looked fabulous.
For some reason we later had to have the word 2000AD written next to it and the logo shrunk. It has never looked right. It feels like they aren't confident enough that the logo states the brand name, so have to spell it out as well. If that's the case then the logo is no good (which is not true, it is).
So, nostalgic Chrome logo campaigns aside, what should really happen is to keep the current logo but use it standalone.
Quote from: broodblik on 22 September, 2023, 12:40:00 PMFrom Chris Weston:
Five years ago I created this tribute piece to Carlos Ezquerra featuring his creations. Something in it gave me an idea.... and five years later...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6nusUaXYAAM3TI?format=jpg&name=large)
Love it, a brilliant and fitting tribute in my honest & humble opinion.
I suspect there are multiple reasons for this. The logotype visually links 2000 AD and the Meg from a branding perspective. The fan logo feels more like the brand logo than just the comic logo. But also, you these days have to think more widely than in the days of acres of newsstand space. Now, titles need to be easily and rapidly legible in thumbnails, from a distance on those shelves that do remain, and so on.
Yep. Speaking from personal experience, (before I subscribed), "2000AD" in the top left corner and "AD" rotated 90 degrees in the top right corner makes it way easier to spot the comic on newsagents shelves when other stuff is haphazardly stacked in front of it.
I guess that's all fair enough. I'm sure that's the reason they fairly quickly went back to having a "banner" style logo instead of something that was just top left corner.
I now have a physical copy of the non-subscriber Prog....damn you, Tharg, I've never done that before....and I have to say it is a thing of great beauty. Not that the subscriber cover isn't also that. It's well worth getting both! I'm not going to make a habit of this though, Tharg, d'ya hear?
From Kenneth Niemand's twitter:
Well, the Battle-Action/prog merger special event is officially a success, and so we're doing another - different - one next year.
Now to figure out what the theme's going to be...
2000 AD/Whizzer and Chips, clearly.
I'm glad this worked out for everyone. It was a really solid Prog and Meg. As I've said elsewhere, I just found it a little frustrating that a handful of the strips didn't continue. Although I suppose if Tharg thinks they have legs, they may well get full series.
Wow, so many talented writers and the bosses couldn't be arsed to make the stories one and dones.
Absolute bollocks.
The usual mismanagement I've come to expect from Rebellion.
Quote from: Bad City Blue on 27 September, 2023, 03:14:50 PMThe usual mismanagement I've come to expect from Rebellion.
I fear you may have fundamentally misunderstood the entire concept of the issue...
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 27 September, 2023, 03:18:23 PMQuote from: Bad City Blue on 27 September, 2023, 03:14:50 PMThe usual mismanagement I've come to expect from Rebellion.
I fear you may have fundamentally misunderstood the entire concept of the issue...
I completely understand the concept of the issue
I simply despise the fact its a one off that left me unfulfilled.
Great, a alternate universe crossover, a brilliant idea.
Why not make it self contained?
Because if it was real it wouldn't be.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 September, 2023, 02:48:30 PM2000 AD/Whizzer and Chips, clearly.
Ha! Scream? Misty? Lion?
I'd actually be quite happy with Scream!
Quote from: M.I.K. on 27 September, 2023, 05:37:22 PMBecause if it was real it wouldn't be.
Exactly this. It's part of the conceit.
Quote from: Bad City Blue on 27 September, 2023, 03:14:50 PMWow, so many talented writers and the bosses couldn't be arsed to make the stories one and dones.
Absolute bollocks.
The usual mismanagement I've come to expect from Rebellion.
Eh?
I mean, I felt frustrated by the way it was done, but only because I wanted more from some stories that were left hanging. But they were still satisfying blasts in and of themselves. To refer to this as the "usual mismanagement" is quite the take. Not least from a company that rescued 2000 AD from oblivion *23* years ago, and against the odds (given the horror show that is the current market) is thriving.
It's almost like he very transparently has an axe to grind with 2000AD editorial not recognising his awesome scriptdroid skills.
Don't get his comment at all. I'm only a mere reader and subscriber but I see no signs of "mismanagement" by Rebellion. Quite the opposite.
Quote from: Richard on 27 September, 2023, 06:42:12 PMI'd actually be quite happy with Scream!
Would be quite happy with that too.
Left field choice:
Wildcat.
the wonderful niemand droid has confirmed on Twixter that next years one will be something completely different again nothing to do with false mergers
I was gonna say something snarky about that mismanagement noise. but then i remembered what i was like back in 2005 way back in the kid samurai days and was constantly shitting on david bishop all the time. god i feel so guilty about that now dude had a thankless job and managed to get a whole bunch of amazing talent to work for the meg who still work today hes an unsung hero who deserved better than being this divs punching bag for years.
I think i already apologised to him before but i really gotta do it again sorry for being such a dumbass back when i was a stupid teenager
Yes, Bishop kept the comic going long enough for Rebellion to buy it (as well as commissioning Nikolai Dante). It's worst period was the early 90s, which was before him.
Quote from: Richard on 30 September, 2023, 12:13:42 AMYes, Bishop kept the comic going long enough for Rebellion to buy it (as well as commissioning Nikolai Dante). It's worst period was the early 90s, which was before him.
Bishop was a strong supporter of Dante from the start, but it was commissioned by John Tomlinson, who was Tharg at the time.
Yeah, I joined in with bashing the Bishop at the time, but with hindsight, I see his tenure as the beginning of the renaissance that followed the dark ages. As someone with an interest in medieval history, I don't like using that metaphor, but at least everyone understands what it means.
"Bashing the Bishop" sounds a bit like choking the chicken...
I liked Bish-op's era. Some very interesting stuff came out of it.
Quote from: scrotnig on 30 September, 2023, 08:10:34 PMI liked Bish-op's ear. Some very interesting stuff came out of it.
FTFY :)
I probably did a bit of bishop-bashing too - both types, but one type was uncalled for and I gave that one up lest it stunt my (moral and intellectual) growth. Bish-Op was a good editor and did sterling work in helping to rescue the prog from its bad era. He didn't seem to like playing the character of Tharg much but that is, of course, forgiveable as he commissioned some great stuff.
Anyway, I'm hoping for a 2000ad / Oink crossover next year.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 01 October, 2023, 04:45:08 PMI probably did a bit of bishop-bashing too - both types, but one type was uncalled for and I gave that one up lest it stunt my (moral and intellectual) growth. Bish-Op was a good editor and did sterling work in helping to rescue the prog from its bad era. He didn't seem to like playing the character of Tharg much but that is, of course, forgiveable as he commissioned some great stuff.
Anyway, I'm hoping for a 2000ad / Oink crossover next year.
Tharg is just a character?
*Deflated*
I guess the only thing I could really say I disliked in the Bish-op era was the attempt to replace Tharg with the Vector 13 Men in Black. Though I understand the thinking behind trying it.
I loved the Vector 13 stories themselves though. Just didn't like the idea of 2000AD without Tharg.
Quote from: scrotnig on 01 October, 2023, 08:17:36 PMI guess the only thing I could really say I disliked in the Bish-op era was the attempt to replace Tharg with the Vector 13 Men in Black. Though I understand the thinking behind trying it.
I don't. I thought the idea of getting rid of Tharg was to make 2000AD more like the Megazine, or American comics back in the days when they had letters pages, where the editors answered letters as themselves. Why remove a fictional character and replace him with other fictional characters?
QuoteI was determined to get rid of Tharg. I thought the character was an anachronism stifling the comic.
Bishop, 2007, Thrill-Power OverloadThen, eighteen weeks later:
(http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/mediumres/1032.jpg)
Conclusion: don't f*ck with Betelgeuse, mofo!
Quote from: nxylas on 01 October, 2023, 08:21:53 PMQuote from: scrotnig on 01 October, 2023, 08:17:36 PMI guess the only thing I could really say I disliked in the Bish-op era was the attempt to replace Tharg with the Vector 13 Men in Black. Though I understand the thinking behind trying it.
I don't. I thought the idea of getting rid of Tharg was to make 2000AD more like the Megazine, or American comics back in the days when they had letters pages, where the editors answered letters as themselves. Why remove a fictional character and replace him with other fictional characters?
I think it was an attempt to replace something some thought was naff and dated, with something contemporary and popular (X-Files was at its height).
Quote from: scrotnig on 02 October, 2023, 06:12:50 PMI think it was an attempt to replace something some thought was naff and dated, with something contemporary and popular (X-Files was at its height).
I guess if this ploy had continued, we'd have needed a new fictional editor every few years. What was contemporary and popular in 1996 looks far more dated than Tharg now. You'd have to have Space Taylor Swift as the editor or summat.
Quote from: nxylas on 02 October, 2023, 09:01:06 PMQuote from: scrotnig on 02 October, 2023, 06:12:50 PMI think it was an attempt to replace something some thought was naff and dated, with something contemporary and popular (X-Files was at its height).
I guess if this ploy had continued, we'd have needed a new fictional editor every few years. What was contemporary and popular in 1996 looks far more dated than Tharg now. You'd have to have Space Taylor Swift as the editor or summat.
No, just no....
I think Bish-Op wanted a more serious tone to the letters page, in keeping with his Megazine one (where I'll always remember him scolding a reader for 'mixing his metaphors to unsavoury effect' - ooh, get her!).
I recall Tharg responding to one of the old-style daft, whimsical readers' letters with the words 'I really don't see the point of this ridiculous letter', which I believe was a message to us all that the horseplay was over.
While I think, in retrospect, the Dave lad did great work with the prog under difficult circumstances, most of us are kids at heart and want an arrogant, sarky alien editing our comic. Which, in fairness to the man, he quickly realised and brought Tharg back.
My attitude to Tharg has changed over the years. As a kid, I naturally bought into the conceit without questioning it too much. In my twenties, I regarded Tharg as an embarrassment, unworthy of a proper, grown-up comic. Nowadays, I see the whole Tharg business as a bit of fun, adding to the atmosphere surrounding the comic. i've never been keen on the actual Tharg stories, though, with their in-jokey, "Christmas edition of the staff newsletter" tone.
Same. They usually don't do anything for me, although a couple of them have been mildly amusing. (I wish they were shorter, mind.) I do recall the horror of facing Best of 2000 AD monthly 63. In the months prior, we'd had Torquemurder, Strontium Dog: Outlaw, Mick McMahon Sláine, Judge Anderson: The Possessed, and some cracking Dredd (Starborn Thing!) So it was quite something when I was as a youngish lad suddenly faced with an entire magazine of Tharg tales. At least things then got back on track with Ace Trucking (Mush Rush!), Halo Hones 3, Cry of the Werewolf, and Strontium Dog: Max Bubba.
Man, what a great reprint mag Bo2K was*. So great back in the day for getting access to the best the comic had to offer, but in an affordable manner. At the time, I recall most of the reprint had been those expensive and skinny Titan volumes. Here, you got basically the same thing – to young eyes, at least – for a fraction of the price.
* issue 63 excepted
I do have a certain fondness for the Vector 13 boys, who amusingly seem to now be more dated than the mighty green bonce himself. Maybe it was just a side effect of a number of V13 strips being some of my first exposure to tooth reprints, wonder if they've shown up at all since, either strip side or as an
editorial gag.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 03 October, 2023, 12:16:25 PMI do have a certain fondness for the Vector 13 boys, who amusingly seem to now be more dated than the mighty green bonce himself.
Yeah, Tharg doesn't scream 1977 the way Vector 13 screams 1997.
I still can't quite get used to the notion that 1997 is a long time ago!
Quote from: Richard on 03 October, 2023, 03:10:23 PMI still can't quite get used to the notion that 1997 is a long time ago!
Put it this way, I don't think we'll be getting a new series of BLAIR 1 any time soon.
STARM3R
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 October, 2023, 07:38:16 PMSTARM3R
That could work, actually. There's something slightly "off" about him, I don't think I've ever seen a photo of him where he doesn't look stiff and awkward. Probably best to wait until he's actually Prime Minister, though.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 03 October, 2023, 12:16:25 PMwonder if they've shown up at all since
(https://i.imgur.com/hr3xG8N.png)
[prog 2000]
And my favorite version of Tharg has him entirely unhinged:
(https://i.imgur.com/hgxxIer.png)
[2K40 special]
I always liked the Tharg strips. My favourite type of Tharg is the one from Tharg's Head Revisited and A Night 2 Remember - struggling a bit to maintain his enormous ego when faced with some of his less impressive achievements.
Just read this - brilliant prog. I'll echo what Colin YNWA said about this being a great example of what Regened could be.
In terms of the ones I'd really like more episodes of:
- Death Game 2049 - they had me at "GUK!"
- El Mestizo - loved the crossover magic at the end. Blocker looks like Michael Landon.
- Hellman of Hammer Hell Force - this should somehow crossover with Mechastopheles.
- Major Eazy - like Cursed Earth Koburn, it's just too much fun not to have in the comic.
Dredd was fun as a one-off alternity-intro, and the premise could easily replace the rather moribund Cadet Dredd in Regened. Beyond that, though - expanding the idea doesn't hold much interest for me. Dredger, despite the future-scape stuff, just felt the most anachronistic. I think this would have worked better if his hyper-violent, Dirty Harry approach to problem-solving left the future-folk aghast: more like Ulysses Sweet.
Quote from: Funt Solo [Rlink=msg=1105761 (tel:1105761) date=1696479703]
Just read this - brilliant prog. I'll echo what Colin YNWA said about this being a great example of what Regened could be.
My first reaction too, but apart from cadet Dredd, they're over Regened's age limit policy for leads.
It would have to be Hellboy's hammer force and Easy minor.
Quote from: Le Fink on 05 October, 2023, 08:46:07 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [Rlink=msg=1105761 (tel:1105761) date=1696479703]
Just read this - brilliant prog. I'll echo what Colin YNWA said about this being a great example of what Regened could be.
My first reaction too, but apart from cadet Dredd, they're over Regened's age limit policy for leads.
It would have to be Hellboy's hammer force and Easy minor.
Plus, I wonder how appealing these stories would be for youngsters. Much of their appeal lies in the nostalgia factor. What entertains old farts like me might bore a teenager. The "age limit policy for leads" you mention is not some arbitrary rule imposed for no reason, it's based on current trends in the YA market.
Quote from: nxylas on 05 October, 2023, 11:57:19 AMQuote from: Le Fink on 05 October, 2023, 08:46:07 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [Rlink=msg=1105761 (tel:1105761) date=1696479703]
Just read this - brilliant prog. I'll echo what Colin YNWA said about this being a great example of what Regened could be.
My first reaction too, but apart from cadet Dredd, they're over Regened's age limit policy for leads.
It would have to be Hellboy's hammer force and Easy minor.
Plus, I wonder how appealing these stories would be for youngsters. Much of their appeal lies in the nostalgia factor. What entertains old farts like me might bore a teenager. The "age limit policy for leads" you mention is not some arbitrary rule imposed for no reason, it's based on current trends in the YA market.
Indeed! I remember well Jim's missives on the subject. I was just being silly - no dig intended.
On the above, hence my earlier thinking that I didn't really consider this a template for Regened. Maybe some of the concepts might work, but mostly I felt like the stories had legs in and of themselves for 2000 AD. Probably not taking over the whole Prog, but one of them now and again running as a full series could be good.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 October, 2023, 12:35:43 PMOn the above, hence my earlier thinking that I didn't really consider this a template for Regened. Maybe some of the concepts might work, but mostly I felt like the stories had legs in and of themselves for 2000 AD. Probably not taking over the whole Prog, but one of them now and again running as a full series could be good.
Would deffo like to see more Indiana Easy.
Quote from: nxylas on 05 October, 2023, 01:56:33 PMQuote from: IndigoPrime on 05 October, 2023, 12:35:43 PMOn the above, hence my earlier thinking that I didn't really consider this a template for Regened. Maybe some of the concepts might work, but mostly I felt like the stories had legs in and of themselves for 2000 AD. Probably not taking over the whole Prog, but one of them now and again running as a full series could be good.
Would deffo like to see more Indiana Easy.
Mate, it would basically just be the same story over and over again. (Kinda like the original Battle strip....)
I wrote it, and I don't see much mileage in it as a continuing story. And the suggestions about it being suitable for Regened are just bizarre.
Kind of what I liked about early 2000 AD - it wasn't the mainstream - it had an edge.
I'd have to agree with the emerging consensus regarding Regened. The Dredd story is probably the only one that really fits.
Then again this assumes the driver of connections is the age of the character. That's not really something that fit back in the day.
When you look at the roster of characters right from the off, none of them were 'target market age'. Granted some supporting characters were but IIRC Wolfie Smith is probably the first lead character that could be described as such.
I think I'd also have to agree with Mr Rennie on the mileage for 'Indiana Eazy'. It's likely to become fairly formulaic. Even with some sort of backdrop 'conspiracy' to contend with. As an occasional strip it would be fun but that would be about it in all honesty.
For me this prog looked fantastic and the strips were good, but I don't have any nostalgia for Battle/Action characters so it was just another week, along with the Regened weeks, where I'm missing a proper 2000ad, which is what I'm interested in. I find it harder to get into one-off episodes like this where I know they're designed to be one and done and there's nothing to get invested in. The prog itself has ongoing stories and characters that I care about and I want to see what happens next. I'm not complaining mind, no problem with Regened or with 2000ad trying out this or things like the zombie crossover, I prefer the standard prog.
Quote from: GordonR on 05 October, 2023, 03:48:38 PMMate, it would basically just be the same story over and over again. (Kinda like the original Battle strip....)
I wrote it, and I don't see much mileage in it as a continuing story.
Fair enough, I can't really argue with the actual writer of the strip. It's just that whole "high adventure with speculative fiction elements" is not something I can ever really remember 2000AD doing before, even when everyone else was doing it in the wake of Raiders. Maybe it's
because everyone else was doing it, but 2000AD has never traditionally been shy about jumping on bandwagons.
It's not as if the "monster of the week", repetitive nature of the idea was something that prog 2350 handled with so much subtlety that it was escaping anyone's notice. An un-killable villain, hyperbolic next prog messages, this:
(https://i.imgur.com/BWGIKx5.png)
So, this sort of exchange was amusing:
Squaxx: "That was really fun! More! More!"
Script Droid: "Pathetic imbeciles! Can't you comprehend the subtle genius at work here?"
Hear me out here...
"Major E.T."
Dice Man was 2000ADs shameless Indy rip off?
AI's response...
(https://i.imgur.com/DEXbXN8.png)
Quote from: Leigh S on 06 October, 2023, 06:50:35 PMDice Man was 2000ADs shameless Indy rip off?
My admittedly hazy memory of it is that it was more "film noir meets Lovecraft", but I guess it's the closest thing.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 October, 2023, 11:34:17 AMMan, what a great reprint mag Bo2K was*.
* issue 63 excepted
This tingled my nostalgia glands and no mistake. Entire series (halo jones; stronts; rogues; Dredds) for, what - 60p? I ate them up.
I don't recall issue 63 though...
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 06 October, 2023, 07:03:17 PMAI's response...
(https://i.imgur.com/DEXbXN8.png)
Bloody hell -- that's practically the cover for
The Stainless Steel Rat Joins the Postal Service. Peter Elson will be spinning in his gravy.