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Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: NapalmKev on 29 August, 2020, 08:55:07 PM

Title: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: NapalmKev on 29 August, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Diaboliks cover by Dom Reardon.

Dredd - End Of Days, Part 13 Death is revealed and guess who it is? Except I think there's more to it than that. I wondering if it's the Angel Head that's at the heart of this and I base this also on my recent reread of The Grevious Journey of... (Mega collection). Maybe the typewriter guy from the third series is actually from Dredd's Earth and by killing the planet they can stop him from ever writing about Ichabod? It's Saturday night and I've had a few so bare that in mind.


The Out, Part 10. Another layer to this absolute stunner of a (new) series. The artwork is superb as always and the exchange between Gunhunwud and Cyd is revelatory to say the least.


Future Shocks - Steam M For Murder. Was enjoying this right up until the last page and then it became sort of non shocking, with the interesting aspects of the story, no murder/sentient robots that cannot kill but one with an injury might have the potential to do so, being sidelined for a person who will do anything for money.


Tharg's Thrillers - Un Roman Fantastique. It's 1899 and a Police investigation into murder leads to other worldly consequences...perhaps. There's always the chance they are tripping from the effects of the opened bottle. Great opening episode with lovely artwork.


The Diaboliks - A Crooked Beat, Part 1. The start of this series sees the focus on a new character and it's done very well. Either he's hard as nails or he's elusive as hell. Another good opener.


There's a letters page.


Cheers
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Goosegash on 29 August, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
Quote from: NapalmKev on 29 August, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Diaboliks cover by Dom Reardon.

Dredd - End Of Days, Part 13 Death is revealed and guess who it is? Except I think there's more to it than that. I wondering if it's the Angel Head that's at the heart of this and I base this also on my recent reread of The Grevious Journey of... (Mega collection). Maybe the typewriter guy from the third series is actually from Dredd's Earth and by killing the planet they can stop him from ever writing about Ichabod? It's Saturday night and I've had a few so bare that in mind.


The typewriter guy was Rob Williams doing a fourth-wall-breaking cameo, wasn't it? I think a return appearance from him might be a bit too meta for Dredd!

Have to second the praise for the art on this week's Thr3ller, stunning work from Roach and Doherty.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Bolt-01 on 30 August, 2020, 09:30:34 AM
Prediction - [spoiler]Giant will somehow 'take' the Death entity from Dredd and Ichabod will kill him. This will validate Giant's purpose in this mission.[/spoiler]

However, I want to be wrong on this.

and can someone explain the FS for me - I didn't get it.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 30 August, 2020, 09:59:53 AM
Quote from: Bolt-01 on 30 August, 2020, 09:30:34 AM
Prediction - [spoiler]Giant will somehow 'take' the Death entity from Dredd and Ichabod will kill him. This will validate Giant's purpose in this mission.[/spoiler]

However, I want to be wrong on this.

and can someone explain the FS for me - I didn't get it.

[spoiler]The reporter murdered the Multi-Billionaire former Earth(ian) President so that she can make it big with a true crime documentary about his death similar in vein to Making A Murderer or The Jinx, rather that the trashy CGI-fest entertainment that the deceased ended up creating for the masses[/spoiler]. That's my take anyway!!
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: A.Cow on 30 August, 2020, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: NapalmKev on 29 August, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Diaboliks cover by Dom Reardon.

And it's a poor cover, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong: Reardon's artwork is usually very stylish but the combination of the random composition and rough linework just makes it look like a GCSE Art project to me.  I'm sure there are others who'll love it.  Not my cup of tea.

Quote from: NapalmKev on 29 August, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
Future Shocks - Steam M For Murder. Was enjoying this right up until the last page and then it became sort of non shocking, with the interesting aspects of the story, no murder/sentient robots that cannot kill but one with an injury might have the potential to do so, being sidelined for a person who will do anything for money.

What NapalmKev said.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: JimmyNailz on 31 August, 2020, 08:17:06 AM

And it's a poor cover, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong: Reardon's artwork is usually very stylish but the combination of the random composition and rough linework just makes it look like a GCSE Art project to me.  I'm sure there are others who'll love it.  Not my cup of tea
[/quote]

I liked the cover, though i've been enjoying looking at tattoo art this past couple of weeks, and thought this cover had the feel of tattoo designs and "popped" with the colours.... opinions are allowed to differ, of course.

Great prog, I thought, this week. The Out wins thrill of the week once again.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: JimmyNailz on 31 August, 2020, 08:18:23 AM
👆 Applogies for the cack-handed quote attempt
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 31 August, 2020, 08:22:40 AM
Maybe what the "problem" with the cover is the usage of color (purple and pink). Maybe if a darker tone was selected or a navy blue and a light blue combo.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: MacabreMagpie on 31 August, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Cover works for me!
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 31 August, 2020, 11:41:49 AM
Quote from: MacabreMagpie on 31 August, 2020, 10:20:21 AM
Cover works for me!

The cover works for me as well
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Link Prime on 31 August, 2020, 03:40:54 PM
I tend to find Dom Reardon can do no wrong, and that cover ain't changing my mind anytime soon.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 31 August, 2020, 03:52:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/km26GyU.jpg)

Dom Reardon
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Dandontdare on 31 August, 2020, 03:58:18 PM
Sorry, it's another big no vote from me on the cover. It looks like a handful of character sketches hastily arranged with a poorly-chosen colour slapped over it - that mauve and pink combo is deeply unpleasant to my eyes. Nothing wrong with the linework of the individual elements, they just look so much better in b&w and in the context of a story, as a cover, it a bit of a dog's dinner.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 31 August, 2020, 05:06:02 PM
Probably worth noting in the discussion of the cover that I think it's meant to be taking a bit of influence from the Danger: Diabolik film poster (though Dom obviously didn't go quite as garish as that). I quite like it, and it works more effectively in print with the other design elements).
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: BPP on 31 August, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Always down for a dom cover.

If Ethan has some line-work shoulders I think the composition would pull together slightly better but overall I likey.  Dom's one of the real distinct voices that 2000ad excels in.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 31 August, 2020, 07:19:01 PM
The cover without a logo:

(https://pics.filmaffinity.com/Danger_Diabolik-921635644-large.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 31 August, 2020, 07:24:58 PM
The real McCoy:

(https://i2.wp.com/www.comicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2000-AD-2197-1.jpg?resize=768%2C991)
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: JimmyNailz on 01 September, 2020, 10:13:00 AM
Really enjoyed the prog AGAIN this week despite a Futureshock and a "Thargs Fillers" double. The Mighty One can currently do no wrong, it seems.

Cover - Well I for one like it and think it really pops.

Judge Dredd: End Of Days went where many suspected it would (though I wasn't expecting that final page) and continues to be a great summer blockbuster. 

The Out -  continues to be utterly brilliant with yet another turn up for the books for poor old Cyd.

Futureshock - whilst the twist wasn't all that great, I really enjoyed the story as a whole. Great world/character building in a mere 4 pages.

Thargs 3hriller - never usually a fan of these, but this one has me very much engaged. Love the art and colours. Fun story so far. Lets see where it takes us.

The Diaboliks - Another new character is introduced and he's a lorra lorra fun. Keith Richards/Jimmy Page eat your heart out.

Thought the Boo Cook Sov Star Scan looked lovely. Judge Dredd: Year 3 novellas to come (though why they release them all seperately at the same price as the anthology version bemuses me... I'll wait, thanks!) and they're releasing America...again!

Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 01 September, 2020, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: JimmyNailz on 01 September, 2020, 10:13:00 AM
and they're releasing America...again!

Here is the article about the new version of America :
https://2000ad.com/news/the-lost-scripts-of-judge-dredd-america-to-be-revealed-for-the-first-time/ (https://2000ad.com/news/the-lost-scripts-of-judge-dredd-america-to-be-revealed-for-the-first-time/)
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: JimmyNailz on 01 September, 2020, 11:20:26 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 01 September, 2020, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: JimmyNailz on 01 September, 2020, 10:13:00 AM
and they're releasing America...again!

Here is the article about the new version of America :
https://2000ad.com/news/the-lost-scripts-of-judge-dredd-america-to-be-revealed-for-the-first-time/ (https://2000ad.com/news/the-lost-scripts-of-judge-dredd-america-to-be-revealed-for-the-first-time/)

I don't think that's the same thing that's advertised in this weeks prog though.
I knew they were releasing the original scripts to America, but what's advertised in the prog looks like it is part of a new "Essential Judge Dredd" line that just sounds like the Hatchett ones again.
I don't have an issue with it if it brings new readers in, but I'm not sure I'd use Amercia as a way to first introduce Dredd to people, despite it being a stone cold classic (though I know many other people - including creators - would disagree with me.)
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 01 September, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
You are talking about: https://shop.2000ad.com/catalogue/XB687 (https://shop.2000ad.com/catalogue/XB687)

My understanding is that Rebellion are going to release of few of these essential editions for new readers to bring them the important Dredd stories and to introduce them to the world of Dredd. Many people want to read Dredd but do not know where to start.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Leigh S on 01 September, 2020, 10:49:25 PM
Much as I have been down on this Dredd and much as it was a predicted twist, that last page image is pure cast iron design genius from Henry Flint
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 02 September, 2020, 03:28:35 AM
For a "filler" prog this was first rate stuff. The Out continues to entertain. The Dredd story is turning into a good solid epic (love that last page). This round the Thriller gets my vote for best in the prog. As with Future Shocks many of the Thrillers are a hit and miss scenario. Great to see Roach back on art duties.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Magnetica on 02 September, 2020, 10:59:12 AM
I seem to recall seeing one of the panels from the first page of the 3riller ages ago. Seems like this has been some time in the making. Either that or it has been sitting there waiting to fill a gap before a jumping on Prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: broodblik on 02 September, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
That one panel was in last weeks regen prog advertising the next prog
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Magnetica on 02 September, 2020, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 02 September, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
That one panel was in last weeks regen prog advertising the next prog

Sure, but that's not what I mean. I seem to recall David Roach showing it on some online forum months ago. Can't remember if it was hear or on Facebook, or both.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: judgeurko on 02 September, 2020, 04:36:54 PM
Well back to normal service after the weird interruption. & Dredd gives us a very obvious predictable 'twist' that doesn't redeem this lazy story, even the brilliant artwork by Flint who is suited to this stuff more than MacNeil can't elevate what feels like a first draft hastily rushed into production.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: MumboJimbo on 03 September, 2020, 09:45:13 AM
What a (mostly) excellent prog, I savoured it slowly like a single malt whiskey!

The Dredd reveal may have been predictable but I'm still quite stoked for the remaining two instalments. I think the End of Days will really stand or fall by its conclusion. Obviously Giant will be the one to save the day, but how?

Saphir was dripping with David Roach gorgeousness - it's a shame we've been transported to another world as another two episodes of Roachean fin de siecle Paris would have been wonderful to behold.

The Future Shock had me hooked but the ending was a bit meh for me. It felt like the last page could almost have been tacked to any murder mystery plot in the preceding pages, so a lot of the build up felt unrealised.

The Diaboliks was a lot of fun. I take it this Jake Pazuzu fellow was a regular in the Callabalistics? (Haven't read it)

The MVP award goes to The Out though. It's about time we got a bit of backstory on Cyd and this absolutely nailed it. Bravo 👏
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: MumboJimbo on 03 September, 2020, 09:54:03 AM
And for what it's worth I liked the colour palette of the cover, but the montage lacked cohesion for me, and too much blank space.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 04 September, 2020, 10:08:34 AM
Never really imagined Jenny's flamey mouth being anything other than black, but I like the cover and think it works pretty well.  I generally prefer a cover that doesn't just show a scene from the story.  Montage works for me.

Dredd's enjoyable enough, though I'm still finding it hard to get too excited about it.  It just seems kind of inconsequential - obviously Dredd's not going to stay as a [spoiler]skinny spider-monster[/spoiler] when this series is over, and I feel the whole thing is going to be kind of forgotten by in-universe characters the way Inferno was. 

The Future Shock is good fun, though the twist doesn't quite deliver. 

The Out is great - yet another important reveal about Cyd.  I'm still calling Halo Jones on this one - more because it's a well-written, galaxy-spanning adventure than because the protagonist is an unremarkable everywoman.  But I do love that aspect too; it's really nice to see a story that isn't about an Ubermensch hero with massive amounts of firepower.

Haven't read the other two yet.  I'll do so now.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: norton canes on 04 September, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
Basically I just have to say what an unalloyed pleasure it is to have, in Williams, Abnett, Rennie and Kek-W, four of the GGC's greatest current wave of writers in the same prog, simultaneously pumping The Might One's organ for every last drop of thrill power.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: norton canes on 04 September, 2020, 12:58:36 PM
And that cover really works for me. Line work maybe, but the black/pink/purple combo makes it super pop.

(Actually the only thing that bugs me is that the zombie priest's cassock should be seen through the windshield...)
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: DrJomster on 04 September, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
I love Dom Reardon's artwork. Sometimes I look at it and think, with practice, maybe I could manage something in that direction... but I bet line work like that, the heavy shading technique that he does so well, that all requires real talent to get right. *potters off to practice some more*
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 05 September, 2020, 11:17:03 AM
Quote from: DrJomster on 04 September, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
I love Dom Reardon's artwork. Sometimes I look at it and think, with practice, maybe I could manage something in that direction... but I bet line work like that, the heavy shading technique that he does so well, that all requires real talent to get right. *potters off to practice some more*

Antonio Fuso seems to have had similar ideas... keep at it though; the more Dom-Reardon-style artists in the world, the better.

This was my favourite Diaboliks yet, and I love this new Keith Richards type character.  Also read the Threeriller (or whatever) and loved the characters too - Kek does great old-timey people.  Not quite sure about the [spoiler]switch in location[/spoiler]; i was rather hoping for an adventure in the streets of Victorian London.

Oh, and Boo's female Sov judge is just outstanding.
Title: Re: Prog 2197 - Saints & Sinners
Post by: Colin YNWA on 06 September, 2020, 04:21:48 PM
Nothing bridging about this this one.

Love the cover. There's something about the way the shapes sit on the page that is just fantastic. in some ways like the John Burns cover a couple of weeks ago, kinda three section / strips to the art... well I get it , makes sense in my head.

Anyway inside Dredd has one of its good episodes as we burst into the final act of this story and the tension is built and Dredd.. well turns. Interesting.

Nice random Star Scan.

The Out - well its just magnificent isn't it, just magnificent. If last weeks struggle to to come to terms with a new body was emotional, this Prog's revelations - off powerful insights into Cyd and make me want to go back and read the whole thing again as Dabnett and Mark Harrison suggested in their recent and excellent Thrillcast. Christ adding this strip to Lawless and Brink Dabnett really is something else at the moment.

Fantastic Future Shock. I mean everything is better with Might Yeowell art but this was a really fun one off. Sharply told, really enjoyed it.


3rillers - Saphir - BAM no messaging about here, quick intro to a murder myserty, into another dimension, chop some heads, bring on the troglodyte beasties and out. Left me dizzy but excited for more. And looked wonderful

Diaboliks - does similar. Quick intro and then we're introduced to an entirely interesting character in Jake Pazuzu. Quick fizzy world tour of danger and intrigue. Throw yourself out the window and run to the 'safety' of Solomon Ravne. And Out. Left me dizzy and excited for more. And looked wonderful.

If this is what cramming things in before the next jumping on Prog looks like count me in! Oh and we get Sinister Dexter back next time.