The Political Thread

[House of Usher]

Hi Ush, no, you're not wasting your time, we just have different views.  I know you're in the education field

I am indeed, now as a home tutor. I'm also in the mail sorting and delivery field and the laminate flooring packing field. I'm hotly anticipating moving into more fields as the opportunity arises.

[JOE SOAP]

A finger in every pie, go on the Ush.

[Roger Godpleton]

I regularly ease all five fingers in your mom's solitary pie.


That goes for all of you.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Hardly solitary then.
Mine passes on her thanks, though.

[Matt Timson]

Iain Duncan Smith again: unemployed people should be made to do 4 weeks' community service for 30 hours a week to remind them what work is like. Except they're not going to be called unemployed, they are going to be labelled 'workshy' so that when you see people out doing their work for benefits, you will know that they are being punished. That's why benefit claimants are going to be forced to do the kind of unpaid work currently done by shoplifters, burglars and vandals: because benefit claimants are no better than criminals.

Now here's a funny thing: how come there aren't lots of 30 hours a week minimum wage jobs advertised improving the neighbourhoods of local communities? If there were, I would apply for one of them. I could do with a guaranteed 30 hours' paid work each week. Maybe the reason no-one's advertising jobs like these at the moment is that they don't need doing. This is make-work to keep people busy, rather than there being anything that needs to be done that isn't getting done currently.

Another thing: as the Financial Times points out, no-one has yet looked into the cost of implementing Iain Duncan Smith's scheme. There's paperwork, interviews, training, surveillance and time sheets, insurance, boots, high visibility vests and all-weather clothing to be issued, transport, and certificates of compliance to return to the Job Centre at the end.

So, at a time when the Conservatives are cutting useful public services to save money, they are planning to spend more of our money to pester, cajole and humiliate unemployed people because it plays well to core Tory voters, i.e. people who are doing alright for themselves - in this I include a lot of baby boomers whose own working lives were characterized by economic growth and full employment.

If they're going to do that, then they need to bump the benefits up to the equivalent of at least minimum wage.  It's still a shitty thing to do, mind.

[Satanist]

Years back I used to live in an area where the crims would be forced to wash stairs and cut grass, etc.

The funny thing is all the old biddies who lived there used to go nuts because if someone is getting forced to do a job they have no interest in doing then the results are half arsed at best. In the end the oldies would have to do the job again.

So the end result was everyone pissed off including the people you are meant to be helping.

I can see this going the same route.

[NeilFord]

Maybe the reason no-one's advertising jobs like these at the moment is that they don't need doing. This is make-work to keep people busy, rather than there being anything that needs to be done that isn't getting done currently.

I imagine the real problems with this policy is less about what is 'needed', and more with what is  'possible'.

My local authority used to run vocational work courses for the longterm unemployed, did things like making wilderness footpaths, home insulation schemes, park furniture etc [...crucially, I feel, it was voluntary]. Definately useful community work, but not commercially viable if the workers were getting a working wage.
A lot of these courses got slashed in the last round of public service cuts a few years ago - and that's the point, these are quite expensive to administer and operate, even with voluntary participants who are only in receipt of benefits. You still need administers, supervisors, health & safety courses, equipment etc...
So who will administer IDS's proposed scheme? Local authorities? Most of them have just had  a 25% budget cut over 4 years. Who will pay for it?

And that's just to operate it on the ground, if there is an element of compulsion, that will require a beurocracy to police it. If the unemployed don't play ball, they get no benefits for 3 months, how can this sensibly work? What if there are families with children? Again this is a burden for local authorities who have a DUTY to house the homeless and care for vunerable children.

If they really want to enshrine the notion ensure that "work always pays", then the minum wage for work done sounds fair to me. If the goal is to encourage and enable the longterm unemployed, I don't think compulsory menial tasks at @1.00 per hour is going to do that - it looks like a punitive measure and will be viewed as such.

[The Legendary Shark]

Does the economy own the people or do the people own the economy?

Does the government own the people or do the people own the government?

Just who the Hell has the right to tell people that they MUST work at menial jobs for virtually no pay?

[House of Usher]

Expect a climbdown, with the policy quietly dropped when the details of it prove to be unworkable.

[Peter Wolf]

Expect a climbdown, with the policy quietly dropped when the details of it prove to be unworkable.

Its clearly a reactionary policy that hasnt been thought out at all and its not even a policy as its a proposal.

Does the economy own the people or do the people own the economy?

Does the government own the people or do the people own the government?

Just who the Hell has the right to tell people that they MUST work at menial jobs for virtually no pay?

The government/governance and the economy own the people until the people decide that the reverse is true but it takes so long to happen because the majority cant be bothered to do anything about it.

This is where complacency - laziness and apathy and selfishness gets everyone but to be honest i didnt have any real interest in politics until about 10 years ago and i didnt have a clue but i always knew that something was wrong and it wasnt what it seemed.Before that all i knew was one party got voted in until it all went wrong and then another party got voted in and then that all went wrong and then the other party gets voted in again and all that went wrong and so on and so on......

I didnt have a clue as i just thought they were just incompetent idiots as i dint know about the bigger picture but the one thing i could never understand and still dont why everyone just tolerated it and went along with it with a kind of fatalism that was like saying "Thats just the way it is".

Complacency costs and heres where everyone starts paying.

[Christov]

Mmm.

When that old trope of the Conservatives being in favour of bringing back the workhouses reared it's head again, I didn't think it'd be based in actual reality.

[Peter Wolf]

The government's side of the bargain will be the promise of a new "universal credit", to replace all existing benefits, " - IDS

What does this mean ?

Why wasnt it explained in the article ?

"that will ensure it always pays to work rather than stay on welfare."

Is that an offer you couldnt refuse ?

Do you get a financial incentive to stay in work ?

|How much will that cost ?

If its not a financial incentive then it can only be some form of coercion or/and withdrawal of entitlements if you dont conform to a strict govt criteria.

"A universal credit"

Credit instead of cash ?

Food stamps ?

Vouchers/credits only redeemable at certain govt sanctioned outlets ?

Deny the unemployable/unemployed any choice at all in how their benefits are spent ?

How much will it cost to design and set up and organise and run an entirely new system of benefits and benefit payments ?



Unless its already been carefully planned and organised in advance of course.That wouldnt be surprising at all.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

I think that the government should give the people who decide not to work more money, detatched 4 bedroom houses, two cars and three holidays a year because anything else they try to do just isn't going to work!

I could go on about the scum that I got thrown out from next door work shy, children breeders, drug takers (every couple of nights, at the same time three lads on pushbikes, aged about 15+ came to their house and sold them drugs. How do I know, I saw it handed over a few times when I walked past, plus these lads are known. Before you ask the Police were not interested), Sky subscribers, taxi users, delivered take away food eaters 5 times a week at least (I sit in the dining room when I'm on here, in the bay window and see all these things), the list goes on.
By the way they didn't work and obviously don't need to with the life they can afford to lead. By the way, you are paying the £950 a month rent, I checked what was being asked on the owners website! That is a hell of a lot more than my mortgage, for the same house and we have a bloody conservatory on ours 

Now we have another family in and it looks like it's all starting again 

So when people are wondering why something HAS to be done come and watch my neighbours live the high life and wonder why you should work for a wage.

There are many people in this country who are doing hard shite jobs because they have a strong work ethic and so just get on with it. We can't all be movie stars, pop stars, etc as that is just life.

It's quite easy to knock what is proposed but at least something is being attempted to stop my neighbours and people like them taking the piss. I know one size doesn't fit all but something needs to be done. It's not a Tory, Lib Dem, Labour thing, it's an ingrained part of our country now and it's getting worse.

I suppose I'll be accused of being a Daily Mail reader (yawn), shall we continue until everyone decides to just jack it all in and live on benefits!

So lets have some decent ideas on how to sort this mess out instead....

Over to the forum 

p.s. I'm not having a go at people who fall on hard times, are injured, have diasbilities, etc.. as that is what benefits are for!

[vzzbux]

Here Here.
At least this government has the balls to stand up and try something to quell the tidal wave of spongers.





V

[Old Tankie]

Light the blue touch paper and retire!!!!!