The Citadel wraps up. It's a good conclusion, but I can't say "it changed everything" as was billed. Or indeed anything much as far as ongoing continuity is concerned.
Hope and Fiends carry on, and I think I will need to just do a little refresher on who is who from the last few weeks. Not a major issue though.
There is a Future Shock from the Thought Bubble winners; the art is nice, but I didn't really find the story that engaging.
Brink is just brilliant, as always.
The art on that future shock was more than nice, it was brilliant.
The Citadel was a perfectly good story, but I don't know what Tharg was thinking with that tagline. It makes a very entertaining and fun story seem like an anti-climax, which is undeserved.
Thought experiment with The Citadel: if 2000 AD had somehow accidentally left off the creator credits for these weeks, what would you think? Personally, it didn't click with me at all. Even taking into consideration the unreliable witness angle, it just felt a bit off to me. It wasn't bad, but it ended up feeling kind of throwaway and certainly nothing approaching a game-changer nor even really an important story in the history of the character.
Even though Surfer over in the Meg kind of goes over old ground, I'm finding that engaging and interesting. The Citadel just... feel flat. Oh well. (On the plus side, I listened to the Wagner interview for the 45th convention and it seems like he has no intention to hang up his quill. So we'll likely get more Wagner Dredd in the future.)
Agreed that the art on the Future Shock being brilliant. Very John Stokes! (And not just because of the subject matter)
I've read the rest now and Fiends is really great but, man, that cliffhanger. Two weeks? THARG! Brink is also ramping up, as I knew it would. Properly slow burn.
Hope is solid. I enjoyed the two previous tales a lot and especially when collected, and I suspect that'll be the case here. The Future Shock worked well enough for me and looked superb.
So from me this week, it's: Fiends > Brink > Hope | Future Shock > Dredd. Nothing bad and at least two I'd buy in collected form.
Cover by Dan Cornwell:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQ26AMIXwAIkn3p?format=jpg&name=large)
Cover and Logo:
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/C3SQ24t64P9XPfFbLBdVwxCy95U=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/da/19/96e8c69d27fb3182711d1c7e9ccc5895ddd2.jpeg)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 23 April, 2022, 03:14:45 PM
Thought experiment with The Citadel: if 2000 AD had somehow accidentally left off the creator credits for these weeks, what would you think? Personally, it didn't click with me at all. Even taking into consideration the unreliable witness angle, it just felt a bit off to me. It wasn't bad, but it ended up feeling kind of throwaway and certainly nothing approaching a game-changer nor even really an important story in the history of the character.
I'm not so sure, even without reading the final instalment (sorry, out in the sticks here we have to wait for the post to catch up ...). I'm going to go back to what I'm asking over on the Citadel thread: how are we defining 'game changer'.
I do agree on the question of how the story would have been approached if Wagner's name were not associated. Then again, this is the point that I am driving towards over there - what does the auth(ority) mean for how we view the story.
Have I just imagined this, or did episode 1 have a terrorist attack on the iso-block? What happened to that?!
Quote from: Tjm86 on 23 April, 2022, 10:59:05 PM
I'm going to go back to what I'm asking over on the Citadel thread: how are we defining 'game changer'.
I'd say:
[spoiler] Something that fundamentally changes our view of Dredd
[/spoiler]
Or
[spoiler]A revelation of some awful truth Dredd or the Judges have been hiding for the last 40 years[/spoiler]
Or
[spoiler]"Our" Dredd isn't actually our Dredd.[/spoiler]
I think there were hints that The Citadel would reveal something like one of those, but it didn't.
Read Dredd quicky after lunch when the Prog landed and before a meeting and since that meeting has ended early I'll comment...
... except I'm not 100% sure there's much to comment on. Having now read the final part I think I need to go back and read it all. We have a few bits confirmed that we (I) strongly suspected that means 'The Citadel', in and of itself, is a dangerous thing to read too much into.
I think rather than change anything this has set up questions and scenarios, introduced characters that over time change things. Its not as if Wagner goes for the quick snap of the fingers to developing Dredd and his world. Personally I see this more as 'Letter from a Democrat' potentially starting something that could have profound ramifications. Let's see how it develops...
...Or not. The hype might have just been that, hype, nothing more, nothing less. A hook to draw folks in and we might well be done and dusted here?
Will also be fun to read this free of that hype, which in some ways has dragged it down as we've been expecting something this really doesn't seem to be and its probably a better story once freed of that expectation.
From the Wagner interview, it seemed more like this was just an idea he thought up and liked, rather than the trigger for an overarching multi-year shake-up of Dredd's world.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 April, 2022, 01:53:37 PM
From the Wagner interview, it seemed more like this was just an idea he thought up and liked, rather than the trigger for an overarching multi-year shake-up of Dredd's world.
Yeah I tend to agree now, that's why I choose 'Letter from a Democrat' as I'm not sure that was ever written to become what it became (someone will show me an interview now were JW states he had a 3 year planned mapped out when he wrote it, won't they!) but there's things here that I feel could perculate. I think we could well (though might not) see [spoiler]Chopra[/spoiler] again.
It was also a much more open ending when I'd not noticed the tracer [spoiler]hanging from the badge[/spoiler] which I didn't at first, wrote a paragraph about that, but thought since I'd read it quickly I'd better check and then spotted it!
I didn't spot it either!
I noticed that. My take is that [spoiler]the strip is in part Wagner having fun – as he said in his interview – by writing a hard-arse war-time Dredd, vs the more nuanced modern take, with Dredd perhaps made 'worse' due to the recall of an unreliable narrator who hates him. The shock value was supposed to be Dredd being a murderer. But in the end, his gut instinct was right and, as Chopra noted, he caused the clone's death rather than killing him outright[/spoiler]. In a broader sense, it doesn't feel like the story will have any long-term impact.
Having now read the finale of The Citadel, I think in isolation it was a perfectly satisfying ending to a story which was possibly mis-sold to us as something much significant than it ended up being. In the end neither narrator is reliable as each could be spinning the truth to serve their own ends, and the real story may never be known.
If nothing else the self-contained nature of this tale has led me to reflect on how relatively static the world of Dredd and MC1 is now, compared to, say, fifteen years ago. There was a time when it felt things were constantly in flux and moving forward, even apart from the big event storylines you had things going on like PJ Maybe scheming to become mayor, Dan Francisco's ascension from TV star to Chief Judge, Dredd's efforts to reform mutant rights, etc. I think it comes back again to that issue of there not being an overall authorial voice for the strip, and all the regulars writers having their own individual ideas which don't necessarily coincide with each other.
So I guess its a it easy this week to get distracted by the big... well is it really big... story, but really its not even the star of the show.
Dredd - well I discussed it earlier in the thread but suffice to say its a good story lost in its own hype.
Hope is a great story avoiding getting lost in its own darkness.
Brink is a magnificent story some how manging not to lose us in its layers of slowly building intrigue.
Future Shock is a great story - even if it took me two reads not to get lost in the magnificent to look at art.
Fiends is a good story managing not to get lost in it mid story pivot.
Only real problem is the cover. Its a fine cover BUT if you look at it quickly (or quint) the colouring makes Dredd shoulder pad look like his chin and he appears to have a Desperate Dan jaw. Once seen it can't be unseen I'm afraid.
The timing, breaking 3 tales in full tilt might suck but it appears absense makes the heart grow fonder and I'm really looking forward to next weeks Regened. It feels like an age and I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing what innovations it comes up with.
For the now great Prog.
The prog this year has been a steady supply of good stories and this week the trend continues. Unfortunately or fortunately we will have to wait a bit as the first regen is launch next week.
Dredd – Overall I enjoyed the Dredd story but to be honest the whole "truth" just feels a little bit blunt. Still a good Wagner tale with Cornwell becoming a very good Dredd artist.
Hope – More intrigue as new players to the game is introduced and more is revealed by the known players. The dark twisted story continues good stuff so far.
Brink – This is like a game of chess when pieces are put in place and systematically waiting to strike at the right time. As ever Abnett's script is wordy but keeps the tension high as we jump between different scenes.
Shock – A good story by the new team especially impressed by the art.
Fiends – Another cliffhanger of an ending as our favorite vampire seeks the answers but gets no reward.
Three progs arrived all at once yesterday so I've had a bit of catching up. I'm not sure if it's the frustration from the delay and the inevitable minor spoilers I've had, or just reading them all at once, but I'm less high on this current run than some. It's all good, but also all a little flawed.
Dredd – Have to agree with others that this was extremely climatic in the context of the hype: nothing changed and Dredd's actions were nowhere near as shocking as loads of the other stuff he did during the war. Out of the context of that, this was a a fast moving, brutal little story with absolutely fantastic artwork. Just not the gamechanger it was made out to be.
I stick by the concept of the unreliable narrator at play - both Winterton and Chopra could be spinning the tale their own way, even though Winterton's behaviour points to him being legit nuts - but Dredd's actions aren't really that shocking in context, so it's not really a big deal.
One thing that did confuse / misdirect me is that in the first episode there's an attack on the iso-block which I assumed was connected to Winterton in some way - guys trying to bust him out or silence him or whatever - that turned out to have no further relevance. I'm assuming now that this was the plot reason to have the priest alone with Winterton but it also felt like a bit of an anticlimax there.
It's hard to view the story outside of the big hype it got. Some of Dan Cornwell's best stuff yet, but the story itself seems a bit throwaway really.
Hope – I've struggled to engage with this so far. The pace seems very slow, not helped by some of the page layouts, and the characters don't yet feel all that realised, unlike..
Brink – where the glacial pace isn't an issue because the dialogue is building layer upon layer of menace of tension. Sinister elements of the tale are dismissed as mundane, except we know they aren't, and Broodblik's chess analogy is a good one as it feels like things are lining up for something awful to strike. The return of previous characters, now we have some foreknowledge of who they are, is ominous.
Intestinauts – Loved this although the finale seemed a but abrupt with everything suddenly wrapping up: feels like we could have had another episode of this. I hope this tale keeps coming back. Pye Parr's bright, kinetic artwork is perfect here.
Future Shock – Really liked this too. Superb artwork, neat little tale.
Fiends – Another one that's not quite hitting the mark for me when compared to previous runs of Fiends. Awesome old haircuts aside, the cold war setting has faded into the background and whilst I was delighted to see Baba Yaga's house, I guess I was expecting more than a fight and escape (and subsequent villain reveal). Conscious this may have more to come however. I did like the speech about having multiple vampires working on the espionage payroll and as ever, the art is brilliant - digging the grotesque, inhuman smiles and snarls from Costanza especially - he's a monster!
The Future Shock looked great, and the story was good, I'm just confused as to why that mouse has lived for so long, as it's not explained.
Quote from: Bad City Blue on 27 April, 2022, 11:25:13 AM
The Future Shock looked great, and the story was good, I'm just confused as to why that mouse has lived for so long, as it's not explained.
It is not explicitly explained but I gathered that it was due to the experiments that was done on the mouse that gave him the longevity
What is it with chins in HSD? Bringer is almost as chinny as Brinkman.
Quote from: Timothy on 27 April, 2022, 12:14:21 PM
What is it with chins in HSD? Bringer is almost as chinny as Brinkman.
Where has the edit function gone?* I meant Beringer, of course.
*Perhaps it's time for Elon to put in a bid for the forum too. He's give us an edit function.
I'm not sure we ever had one. Admins can edit, but I don't remember whether anyone else can – and certainly not beyond a short timeframe of a few minutes. (Limitations were imposed on editing due to a few people posting unacceptable content.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 April, 2022, 12:52:22 PM
I'm not sure we ever had one.
We did, but it's only available in some sub-forums.
Best Future Shock in years, (which isn't a criticism of any of the other ones).
"Contemporaries" is spelt wrong, though.
B/W Cover:
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2000ad-prog-2279-cover-inks-1-786x1024.jpg)
One thing I have now noticed for the first time is that one of the bubbles represents a Hammer and Sickle from the Soviet Union flag
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 25 April, 2022, 08:58:09 PM
Only real problem is the cover. Its a fine cover BUT if you look at it quickly (or quint) the colouring makes Dredd shoulder pad look like his chin and he appears to have a Desperate Dan jaw. Once seen it can't be unseen I'm afraid
Heh, true.
So,
'The Citadel' ends. Obviously lots of discussion here and on Tjm86's excellent dedicated thread (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48512.0), don't really have time to comprehensively collect my thoughts on it, so excuse the bullet points
- I'll go along with the consensus that it's been a great story which maybe hasn't lived up to its game-changer billing
- Wait - Semper's tracking device was designed to "warn the Sovs off"? Even when they had the real Dredd in their sights?
- Why wouldn't the Judges want the people to know that the Sovs were producing Dredd clones? You'd think it would be a priority to get that knowledge out there. And why such a problem that Dredd killed one?
- Despite John Wagner's claims that it's a one-and-done, I'm guessing it's the start of a big theme for 2000 AD's 50th. Watch me get proved spectacularly wrong!
Lovely stuff in
Brink - the close-up on Bardot's eye, obviously, but my favourite panel is the one with the passers-by on the second page - artists enjoy portraying future fashions but what I love about this is that different characters are all sporting the same scale pattern tattoo. Obviously the current trend on Ludmilla habitat!
More noir freakiness in
Hope, though it is slightly disconcerting that Tiff Crize is morphing into Ian McKellen. It's about time we had a Hope cover, isn't it?
Fiends is an agreeable read, with some lovely expression work from the Trevallion droid.
TOP THRILL though without a doubt is
'Relict' (n. - "a thing which has survived from an earlier period or in a primitive form", didn't know that!), which really harks back (ironically) to the creepy, unsettling Future Shocks of the very early progs, proving that a discomforting denouement is more satisfying than a trite twist. Although it's not quite as good as my Thought Bubble idea. Oh well.
QuoteAnd why such a problem that Dredd killed one?
I think Winterton's point was that the clone wasn't a Sov, or at least Dredd had no evidence that he was, which would mean that he murdered a Mega-City judge.
I can only add to the approval for the Future Shock, a really strong script and the art is reminiscent of Bryan Talbot, which is high praise for newcomer.
According to their website interview Honor Vincent has already got another story due to appear in the Regened Issue, which is great news. Clearly a talent Tharg is cultivating.
https://2000ad.com/news/interview-honor-vincent-lee-milmore-the-thought-bubble-talent-search-winners-unveil-relict/
That final Future Shock panel of the mushroom cloud made of skulls... one of the best single panels in AGES.
Quote from: norton canes on 28 April, 2022, 11:43:04 AM
Although it's not quite as good as my Thought Bubble idea. Oh well.
"... And it turns out she was in a Virtual Reality prison all along for going back in time and killing her own grandmother!"
Quote from: Goosegash on 28 April, 2022, 05:56:27 PM
I can only add to the approval for the Future Shock, a really strong script and the art is reminiscent of Bryan Talbot, which is high praise for newcomer.
Likewise. That's one of the strongest debuts (and, for me, one of the best Future Shocks) in years. I look forward to seeing both these new droids deliver more work for the Mighty One with great interest.
Got to agree with the majority of this thread...the Dredd wasn't a game changer, or doesn't appear to be, 30 years later and its had no impact that we can see?
I thought there would have been more made of the Sov Dredd than a quick execution by sludge monster. And would a Dredd clone have been a loyal Sov? that interests me!
Hard to believe the Sovs would stop at one too.
The rest of the Prog is going great guns for me just now, next week off, then back to the action!!
This issue's Dredd inspired me to create a couple of Spot the Dreddference challenges. Good luck!
(https://i.imgur.com/KcFJyEc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yrnrmm8.png)
Brilliant!