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Author Topic: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist  (Read 5112 times)

IndigoPrime

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #45 on: 04 March, 2021, 10:42:07 AM »
Didn’t Cave just do something with Warren Ellis as well?

IndigoPrime

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #46 on: 04 March, 2021, 10:48:14 AM »
This bit warrants quoting:

Quote
The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself – that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed.

This is a very real threat now, because we see the far right warping the concept of free speech and aligning it with their own ideologies. Of course, they don’t mean free speech—they mean freedom to say whatever racist/hateful shit they want, without repercussions, and even without retort, while simultaneously (and without irony) denying other people the freedom to say what they want and/or skewing public discourse to their own beliefs.

But that’s not as catchy as ‘free speech’.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #47 on: 04 March, 2021, 10:52:53 AM »
Didn’t Cave just do something with Warren Ellis as well?

Dunno, but almost certainly the other Warren Ellis, who he's worked with since forever.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #48 on: 04 March, 2021, 10:54:26 AM »
Aha. That makes a lot more sense! (And, yes, Carnage by Cave/Ellis, the two Aussies.)

The Legendary Shark

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #49 on: 04 March, 2021, 11:22:19 AM »
 
Quote
“The idea that we can remove the artist from the art means that art isn’t communicating anything after all, it’s just decoration, an amusement. I refuse to look or listen that way.”
I'm not convinced by this argument. The ultimate removal would be death, reducing the work of every dead artist to "just decoration." Similarly, artists change - a kind of minor death, if you will - and this constant change means that the artist who produces Piece A is not entirely the same artist who produced Piece Z. How much must the artist change so that Piece A remains art but Piece Z becomes decoration? Or vice-versa? Or neither? Or both?
I really like Nick Cave's thoughtful take on this issue. I'd be doing it a disservice to try and paraphrase it here, but it's well worth a read.
Yep, that's more or less how I see it as well (but go further, into very unpopular opinions concerning copyrights and patents). As soon as my pen leaves the paper for the last time, so to speak, that art or story is a thing in itself, a thing which belongs to me and me only. However, as soon as I sell (I wish!) or give away (you're welcome) my art or stories, they aren't mine any more - they belong to whoever wants them. The last two stories I posted here are also on a friend's website, she posts stories and reviews, and I don't think her readers care who I am or what I think. I'm just some random name under a title - almost completely separated from the "art" - so I think people routinely judge art and artist differently.
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CalHab

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #50 on: 04 March, 2021, 02:01:40 PM »
Aptly enough it was an encounter with Cave (who I idolised) which made me realise that I don't have to like artists whose work I love.

In short, he was a bit behaving like a bit of a dick.

But then, everyone has days like that.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #51 on: 06 March, 2021, 12:35:38 PM »
However, as soon as I sell (I wish!) or give away (you're welcome) my art or stories, they aren't mine any more - they belong to whoever wants them.

I think I've just spotted Pat Mills with an angry look and a harpoon.
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milstar

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #52 on: 06 March, 2021, 05:53:44 PM »
Yep, that's more or less how I see it as well (but go further, into very unpopular opinions concerning copyrights and patents). As soon as my pen leaves the paper for the last time, so to speak, that art or story is a thing in itself, a thing which belongs to me and me only. However, as soon as I sell (I wish!) or give away (you're welcome) my art or stories, they aren't mine any more - they belong to whoever wants them. The last two stories I posted here are also on a friend's website, she posts stories and reviews, and I don't think her readers care who I am or what I think. I'm just some random name under a title - almost completely separated from the "art" - so I think people routinely judge art and artist differently.

Ditto. I like to think that piece of art starts its own way of living, like a kid who separate from his parents in search for creating a life for him/herself.
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Rara Avis

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Re: A Moral Dilemma - separating the art from the artist
« Reply #53 on: 06 March, 2021, 06:40:06 PM »
I've had to have the transgenderism vs. feminism debate explained to me really carefully before I got it - and even now I feel like a fledgling who would have difficulty arguing the case well to an opponent. Up-thread, a year or so ago, I basically side-stepped it as too problematic an issue to figure out.


What is all this about? It seems that even asking questions around this is transphobic. I'm also not sure exactly what JKL is supposed to have done / said. There is apparently a very lazy and inaccurate depiction of a trans serial killer in one of her books that offended people (both for stereotyping and for terrible writing) and then some twitter comments were she doubled down but other than that I have no idea what's going on.