The Political Thread

[TordelBack]

Shark on about fake money, Tips on about vegetables, Prof Bear on about Transformers, Banners attempting reasoning - all we need now is someone to tell us we're on thin ice and it's the platonic ideal of a 2000ADOnline thread.

[Hawkmumbler]

Too much meta for this thread, Tordels.

[The Legendary Shark]

Watch it, Hawkie, you're on thin ice posting comments like that...

[Jim_Campbell]

all we need now is someone to tell us we're on thin ice and it's the platonic ideal of a 2000ADOnline thread.

But I haven't called anyone a [spoiler]cunt[/spoiler] yet...

Cheers

Jim

[The Legendary Shark]

Is belief in government nothing more than a delusional and dangerous superstition?
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Think about it. The believer in government looks around him and sees a world full of scheming, greedy, dangerous rogues all after getting one over on him and so believes that handing a subset of these self same  people - usually the *most* scheming, greedy, dangerous rogues of all - ultimate power over everyone in the hope that the responsibility of holding such immense power will influence them to do the right thing is actually a perfectly logical system to have blind faith in.
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It makes no more sense than carrying around a rabbit's foot, avoiding the cracks in the pavement or praying to an invisible man who lives in the clouds.
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[Theblazeuk]

A public transport system that is reasonably-priced and reasonably-pleasant to utilise would be a fantastic benefit not just to the environment but to the UK in general. One of these days we should really give it a try.

Well if we only let politicians claim against public transport for their traveling expenses, our public transport would be second to none within a month. It might even put them back in touch with the common man.

And pigs might fly..

I misread this as saying that politician's werent allowed to claim against public transport... however I realise now that it means "let politician's only claim", and ruled out all the lovely black cab hire, then we'd have a better system. Very possible... make sure you ruled out the first class trains though, they may not move anywhere but those carriages are never overcrowded. Or even generally, occupied at all. Almost like some of them could be better used.

[The Legendary Shark]

As nobody took me up on my last post about the basic insanity of believing in authority and/or government (which means I win...), I thought I'd present another argument in the same vein.
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As a law-abiding human being, you have no right to smash your way into your neighbour's house, physically drag him outside, tie him up, kidnap him for 26 hours, prevent him from re-entering his home and then throw all his possessions away. If you tried it, you'd get locked up - yet this is precisely what "authority" did to me.
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So, if you don't have the right to do these things, how can you bestow that right on other people? How can you pass on something that you do not possess?
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You might say that the right to break the law is bestowed on the "government" by the collective will of the masses - but none of the individuals that comprise those masses have that right either. Not one of us, not even Lizzie Windsor or Dave Campmoron, have that right to bestow on anyone - so even if fifty million people support the "government" they still lack the ability to pass on the right to break the law - even though "authority" claims your support gives it precisely that right.
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If you want something, you must ask - if "authority" wants something, it demands. Authority never asks, it always demands and, if you refuse, then you risk state-instigated immoral violence against you and/or your property.
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From this perspective, the only thing "authority" and "government" contribute to society is legalised immoral violence - that's the One Thing government can do that you cannot.
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Still a believer in "authority" and "government"? If so, why?

[Professor Bear]

A state's power has always derived from a rich cabal's monopoly on the use of violence, Sharky.  That doesn't change just because you live in the 21st century/the UK.  It's how we - and by extension the societies we create - are wired.

[The Legendary Shark]

Yes, I agree - but my question was if you believed in this system. If so, why - and if not, why put up with it?
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Addendum - I don't accept the notion that humans are "hard-wired" for violence. If that was the case then there'd be people scrapping on every street corner 24/7 and I, personally, have seen very, very few fights in my time.

[Professor Bear]

I don't have to believe in it, it exists already.

You are very lucky to live somewhere where people are whipped and take it laying down, Sharky.  Where I live, people are scrappy bastards and it isn't always a good thing.

[The Legendary Shark]

Okay, so it exists.
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Is its existence a good thing or a bad thing? Is it acceptable that "authority" claims to have more powers and rights than those who support it?
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If "authority" can steal all my possessions with impunity, does that make it right for "authority" to torture or kill me? Does it not worry you that "authority" makes its own rules up as it goes along and uses you as an excuse to legitimise its own criminality?
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Does "authority" bring anything to society except legalised immoral violence?

[NapalmKev]

Okay, so it exists.

Does "authority" bring anything to society except legalised immoral violence?

Yes, it does. 'Authority' also encourages being a slave to 'Corporate Agenda' at the same time as promoting 'Greed is Good' and disdain for our fellow Humans.

I'm up for getting rid of the lot of 'em, but in the absence of a Political ideal that everyone agrees on or benefits from - well, we're Fucked.

Cheers

[The Legendary Shark]

Why do we need political ideals that everyone agrees with? We don't even have that now. There is nothing that "government" does that can't be done by other means.
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Each and every one of us is capable of governing ourselves within the law - isn't that a good enough reason to simply stop believing? Fighting them isn't the answer - the best way is to simply ignore them and live the way you think is right.

[Professor Bear]

I consider myself a reasonable man, but I know if I ran this third world shithole I would most certainly crush all opposition without mercy or compassion and there would be blood on the streets.
For your own good, you understand.

I'm up for getting rid of the lot of 'em, but in the absence of a Political ideal that everyone agrees on or benefits from - well, we're Fucked.

Cheers

The brilliance of the beige conspiracy is that there's no organised opposition, merely other rich white folks to choose from, because they're the only ones who can afford to join the political class.
One thing I've never been able to get my head around is the fact that there's never ever been an organised campaign to get MPs on the minimum wage or to to scrap their expenses, seeing as they're all rich cunts anyway (even Nigel "I'm not a racist, I just have racist views and front a racist party supported by racists" Farage is a toffee-nosed cunt for all his salt of the earth posturing) or have to join rich parties to get into parliament.  There's a couple of (closed) petitions on Change.org from years ago with about 900 signatories or something like that, which just disappoints me.

[The Legendary Shark]

You can't tell "authority" what to do, so petitions are largely pointless. "Authority", on the other hand, tells us what to do all the time; and it don' need no steenkin' petition to do it, neither.
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Even arguing about how much we should be paying these tyrants is recognising that they're doing a job of worth for society - which they ain't. "Authority" is inherently destructive, so why even discuss keeping it on the payroll?
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You want to pay the Prime Minister? Why not pay him by the peace - so much for every day this country isn't at war, perhaps. Pay the Health Minister for the number of lives saved, the Sport Minister for the number of international trophies we win and pay the Chancellor of the Exchequer a fortune to just stay the fuck at home and stop pissing about with the economy.
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But don't pay them just because they demand it. If we were so consistently piss-poor at our jobs and posed a danger to society because of that, how far do you think we'd get demanding to be paid?