Threadjacking!

[Sideshow Bob]

Heard on the radio yesterday, that there is going to be an extra 600 Police ferried over to assist....
An extra 600 !!....FFS !...
Didn't realise there was still that many Police in the country, coz apart from the Motorway Police, I've never seen one for ages !!

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

So it turns out in Florida, a grown man can shoot an unarmed teenager and get away with it.

[Frank]

So it turns out in Florida, a grown man can shoot an unarmed teenager and get away with it.

If you visit any US politics board you'll find plenty of folks who will earnestly explain to you that Trayvon Martin was a monstrously powerful, drug crazed, adult criminal who ruthlessly stalked his prey before repeatedly smashing Zimmerman's head on the ground in an attempt to break it open, as a gorilla would a coconut. George Zimmerman was a helpless innocent in fear for his life and acting in self defence.

I can't remember the exact quote now, but in 1984 O'Brien explains to Winston that real power is not just the ability to make folk say that a chair is a table, but for folk to look at a chair and believe it really is a table.

[flintlockjaw]

So it turns out in Florida, a grown man can shoot an unarmed teenager and get away with it.

If you visit any US politics board you'll find plenty of folks who will earnestly explain to you that Trayvon Martin was a monstrously powerful, drug crazed, adult criminal who ruthlessly stalked his prey before repeatedly smashing Zimmerman's head on the ground in an attempt to break it open, as a gorilla would a coconut. George Zimmerman was a helpless innocent in fear for his life and acting in self defence.

I can't remember the exact quote now, but in 1984 O'Brien explains to Winston that real power is not just the ability to make folk say that a chair is a table, but for folk to look at a chair and believe it really is a table.

What US politics board are you reading? Haven't read anything like that at all.

[Frank]

What US politics board are you reading? Haven't read anything like that at all.

It might be putting too fine a point on it to describe this as an example of political debate, rather than just outright monomaniacal insanity. The more reasonable discussion I've seen in the US mainstream media seems to acknowledge that it's a more complex and nuanced case - my own opinion was always that Zimmerman's actions were foolhardy and disproportionate, but that there was no way of establishing the malice in either his actions or his motives which would meet the criteria of reasonable doubt necessary for a conviction.

This slim and reasonable fellow leads an entirely unbiased debate of the trial on the single most influential news source on US telly.

[flintlockjaw]

What US politics board are you reading? Haven't read anything like that at all.

It might be putting too fine a point on it to describe this as an example of political debate, rather than just outright monomaniacal insanity. The more reasonable discussion I've seen in the US mainstream media seems to acknowledge that it's a more complex and nuanced case - my own opinion was always that Zimmerman's actions were foolhardy and disproportionate, but that there was no way of establishing the malice in either his actions or his motives which would meet the criteria of reasonable doubt necessary for a conviction.

This slim and reasonable fellow leads an entirely unbiased debate of the trial on the single most influential news source on US telly.

IMDB is not a political board and either is Sean Hannity. So, your original statement of 'visit any US politics board you'll find plenty of folks who will earnestly explain to you that Trayvon Martin was a monstrously powerful, drug crazed, adult criminal who ruthlessly stalked his prey before repeatedly smashing Zimmerman's head on the ground in an attempt to break it open, as a gorilla would a coconut. George Zimmerman was a helpless innocent in fear for his life and acting in self defence.'

...is a huge exaggeration. But you are correct about your more reasonable discussion. The jurors couldn't find him guilty laid out by the guidelines given. Which was the right decision legally...but something should be done. There has to be a consequence for his actions. Maybe the feds will get involved.

[Frank]

Hmmm. The IMDB politics board is certainly a politics board, flint, and it was the most extreme example I could think of which would make my point.

That point wasn't that US nationals who construe the trial as that of a responsible white citizen set upon by a violent black criminal represent the majority or that they characterise the tone of the debate in general, only that they're plentiful and vociferous. I linked to Hannity because there seems to be a direct connection between the talking points promoted by Fox - and the terms in which they frame this or any other debate - and what you see emanating from the keyboards of their Myrmidons (which applies as much to the Left as to the Right).

If you think that's more a point about the tribal and adversarial nature of US media and political culture than the general population, then you'd be correct (see my original post).

[flintlockjaw]

And yet...they're wrong. He's not white...he's Hispanic and I really don't think race played any part in it.

[flintlockjaw]

Also...linking to Fox News is an automatic fail! 

[Frank]

And yet...they're wrong. He's not white...he's Hispanic and I really don't think race played any part in it.

Probably not; Trayvon was wearing a hoodie. Race certainly had a bearing on the positions adopted by those discussing the case on the bottom half of the internet though - and it played a huge part in the way the US political and media tribes lined up on the case. "If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon" ...

Also...linking to Fox News is an automatic fail! 

Sir, yes Sir!

[flintlockjaw]

And yet...they're wrong. He's not white...he's Hispanic and I really don't think race played any part in it.

Probably not; Trayvon was wearing a hoodie. Race certainly had a bearing on the positions adopted by those discussing the case on the bottom half of the internet though - and it played a huge part in the way the US political and media tribes lined up on the case. "If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon" ...

Also...linking to Fox News is an automatic fail! 

Sir, yes Sir!

Which is totally irresponsible for the President to say and for those politicians too wear hoodies. I think it's too easy to say it was racially motivated. It was a gated community and the kid according to Zimmerman looked suspicious. Where I live, and it's not gated, if I saw someone in the neighborhood that I had never seen before and looked suspicious...regardless of race...I'd be a bit concerned. Zimmerman was a moron.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Zimmerman was a moron.

No, Zimmerman is a moron. The angry mob haven't got him yet

[Frank]

Zimmerman was a moron.

No, Zimmerman is a moron. The angry mob haven't got him yet

You're one to talk about angry mobs, neebs. Are the yahoos who've sworn undying loyalty to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland still pelting the legal representatives of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland with bricks? Those must count as the most ironic street protests since the Paris Situationists rioted in '68.

Are you stuck inside watching the chaos from your window? Can you still get out to the Spar shop for milk? My Mum gave me a big bag of dried dates when I was up seeing her yesterday; I was going to eat them while I was watching Season of the Witch tonight, but if I can help stop my countrymen from starving I'll gladly send them registered post tomorrow - with instructions to the postie to dress casual and not look too much like a representative of the authorities when he's delivering them.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

My favourite part is when they interview the politicians. It's like there's been a fight in the schoolyard and they're all trying to act as if they weren't standing around chanting "FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!"

[Spikes]

Has this thread been jacked into the Politics thread? In that case....


Not that we need proof of the EDL's stupidity, but here it is - anyway