Space Spinner 2000AD

[SpaceSpinner2000]

Big ups to Sheridan and The Monarch for getting it rolling, it's Spinnies and Meggies time for 1991!

We want to hear your nominations for:
Best Art
Best Writing
Best Thrill
Best Month of 1991
MVP of the Year
Respond here or email to send in your Spinny Noms!

It'll also be our 250th episode, so any well wishes would be appreciated!

[The Monarch]

please tell me you didn't use my meggies i just realised that you guys haven't covered brit cit babes yet

[sheridan]

please tell me you didn't use my meggies i just realised that you guys haven't covered brit cit babes yet

Brit-Cit Babes is starting on the next meg.

[Leigh S]

Can't believe I missed the Spinnies window!

1991 is such a sad year - you've got the real problem of Fleischer/Millar taking over, not just from Wagner/Grant and Mills while they all fall out over Toxic, but Hilary Robinson and shortly John Brosnan - I was never a great fan of Robinson's stuff, but it was certainly a case of "be careful what you wish for".

I can't disagree with what most people said - Killing Time is the clear standout - Ennis is variable, but well meaning, though I hate Death Aid for taking the genius of the Hunter's Club and turning them into standard Futsies - what Wagner,GHrant and Mills there is is most welcome, but their attentions are elsewhere.

So 1991 is worse year of the 5 for me - it goes top to bottom: 1987, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1991.  doesnt help that 1991, along with 1990, were personal low point years - I think if it wasnt for the Megazine, I think I might have ditched the prog some time shortly after the Millar Robohunter abomination.

My guess is that 1992 is mmore of the same, 93 and 94 get worse, but somewhere in 95 things start to  turn about and it's a long climb back up from the pit of 1994.

1984 is still the best year!

[Leigh S]

Actually may have 88 and 89 mixed up there - whichever year gave us the most Daily Star Dredd, that's the better one! :p 

[WhizzBang]

Actually may have 88 and 89 mixed up there - whichever year gave us the most Daily Star Dredd, that's the better one! :p

Fox and Conrad didn't like the Daily Dredds being in the prog and I thought this was an interesting case of context over-shadowing content. I have the first 2 volumes of the Daily Dredd collections and they are mostly great but I can see how putting them in a prog context makes them a bit annoying, with a jarring shift of pace and panel distribution.

[Leigh S]

Yeah, I'm a huge flag waver for the Daily Star Dredd, in the prog or out! 

For context, these were totally unavailable if you didnt read the Star at the time, so if you were a bit of a completist (can you be a bit of one?)  then having them turn up in annual, specials and the progs was a special treat - I mean, turning up in the progs was clearly not because it was a special treat, it was as Conrad surmises, filling production gaps.

But that would be a bit like complaining if BBC1 started showing "Marco Polo" or "Fury From the Deep" on prime time - "what's this old black and whte nonsense doing on my Telly!?!" 

For me it was a respite from some of the second and third tier stuff that would otherwise have been filling the slot and maybe a reminder of happier times

Actually may have 88 and 89 mixed up there - whichever year gave us the most Daily Star Dredd, that's the better one! :p

Fox and Conrad didn't like the Daily Dredds being in the prog and I thought this was an interesting case of context over-shadowing content. I have the first 2 volumes of the Daily Dredd collections and they are mostly great but I can see how putting them in a prog context makes them a bit annoying, with a jarring shift of pace and panel distribution.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Can't believe I missed the Spinnies window!

1991 is such a sad year - you've got the real problem of Fleischer/Millar taking over, not just from Wagner/Grant and Mills while they all fall out over Toxic, but Hilary Robinson and shortly John Brosnan - I was never a great fan of Robinson's stuff, but it was certainly a case of "be careful what you wish for".

I can't disagree with what most people said - Killing Time is the clear standout - Ennis is variable, but well meaning, though I hate Death Aid for taking the genius of the Hunter's Club and turning them into standard Futsies - what Wagner,GHrant and Mills there is is most welcome, but their attentions are elsewhere.

I remember really resenting Ennis being the new Dredd scríbe at the tíme.  However bad other strips had got before 1991, which to be fair generally wasn't too bad ,Dredd could usually redeem the prog. Now, all that Wagner subtlety and wit was gone. I hadn't read any of Garth's other stuff at the time, and wondered why Tharg had suddenly given the Time Flies fella top billing. Thank Grud for John Smith, who for me kept the prog alive.

Now, I must say I really like Garth's stuff these days.

[Leigh S]

There's a definite Goldilocks syndrome

Ennis loves Dredd and the bog paper years and creators just a little too much - we see this in the cloth eared ending of the Democracy storyline, but wose for me in the shit kicking he gives Alpha next year - that may be me loving Johnny too much maybe, but comapre with the nuance of the confronatation between the two we see in Top Dogs.

Millar and Morrison have the opposte problem in pouring contempt openly on both Dredd and the Old Guard of 2000AD.

While neither is what you want to see in your prog, I'd rather too much love than too much bile.

[sheridan]

Mention of Toxic! has given me an idea for the followup to the Starlordathon.  Tornado is an obvious sequel (though will that include all the text stories?), Crisis is a bit unwieldly - went over 60 or 70 issues, Revolver without Crisis would be a bit pointless (as some of the stories transferred over when it folded), but Toxic! has just the right amount of issues.  Judge Dredd: Lawman of the Future is about the same length as well.

[Dandontdare]

I appreciate that both Ennis and Millar have conceded that their Dredd work was not the best. They were too much fanboys to be in charge of the show so Dredd would inevitably get beaten down and then rise up with a rousing speech or witty one-liner to win with one punch (conveyor belt optional)

I've actually found the last year's worth of podcasts quite traumatic at times. Jesus, I'd forgotten just how shite that Michael Fleischer stuff was. I had honestly erased every detail of the new Harlem Heroes from my memory, and every podcast was like some awful Recovered Memory experiment as I had to relive every moment again, not to mention Sam Slade and Cutie. God that was bad. Ennis' Dredd's were still quite often the highlight, and some of them were pretty good.

Keep going dudes, there's more shit to come, but it gets so silly it'll be funnier to talk about, and there are always gems along the way

[milstar]

If I may digress a bit here, I consider Dredd as anti-thesis to superheroes. Hence, Millar and Morrison, who obviously are fans of guys and girls in thighs, their work on Dredd is mediocre, to say at least. Actually, those who made a successful stab at superheroes openly had shown dislike for Dredd. Here I'd include Alan Grant. On the other hand,  it's obvious that Ennis loves Dredd and he, along John Wagner, haven't shown much interests to superheroes.

[The Corinthian]

The Morrison who wrote Dredd is the same Morrison who publicly disparaged Kafka for not imagining that Gregor Samsa could use his new-found insect powers to fight crime.

[JayzusB.Christ]

However much of a fan Ennis was, it really didn't seem like it to me.  Return of the King was the start of it for me.  It seemed like Garth had barely been paying attention at all - Dredd telling Hershey that 'the law is never wrong', for instance, despite all the major events of the previous few years being based on Dredd's realisation that the law was sometimes wrong.  Dredd calling Silver a creep, despite years of mutual respect and also Wagner's Dredd showing understanding to Kraken.  For me anyway, it set the scene for the Ennis Dredd years - Dredd as a childishly bad-tempered, 2-dimensional loudmouth rather than the complex, intelligent and sometimes conflicted character we'd seen develop (however slowly) over the previous years.

Sorry to be so negative; Ennis has become one of my favourite comics writers since then.  And for what it's worth, I think his later attempts at Dredd showed a far more accomplished and appropriate take on the character, whatever you may think of the stories.  (And I may well be alone here, but I didn't mind Helter Skelter at all, and positively enjoyed Monkey on my Back.)

[Dandontdare]

Ennis' Dredd's were still quite often the highlight, and some of them were pretty good.

However much of a fan Ennis was, it really didn't seem like it to me...

...And for what it's worth, I think his later attempts at Dredd showed a far more accomplished and appropriate take on the character, whatever you may think of the stories.  (And I may well be alone here, but I didn't mind Helter Skelter at all, and positively enjoyed Monkey on my Back.)

Yeah,I drifted a bit there, it's 91 we're talking about, I think I'm conflating all Ennis Dredd,, and you're right his better stuff came later.