The Political Thread

[Dog Deever]

What I'm bringing is a different perspective on your proposed solution to your own- entirely necessary in any debate (even 'what if' musings like this one).

'Having a solution' is not the only positive that can be brought to the table, particularly if any critique could be shown to have a broad base of support (which I presume a broad base of meat-eating poor suddenly being forced to be veggie because some well-off guy says 'its for the best' would do).
I don't think "no solution, eh? Oh well, fuck you, despite you being the most affected by it. It's nothing to me, I'm off for my bird inside a bird inside a bird with duck pate horses duvet" is in any way progressive.

As you rightly said- our food choices are divided by our economics anyway, this is another expression of the inequalities in society created by the gap between rich and poor. I simply do not buy into the idea that increasing that gap will create a better society. Better for who?

[Jim_Campbell]

I don't think "no solution, eh? Oh well, fuck you, despite you being the most affected by it. It's nothing to me, I'm off for my bird inside a bird inside a bird with duck pate horses duvet" is in any way progressive.

Wow. What a confrontational little prick you can be. I've been dirt fucking poor for several extended periods of my life and you can stuff your assumptions up your arse.

[Frank]

What a confrontational little prick you can be. I've been dirt fucking poor for several extended periods of my life and you can stuff your assumptions up your arse.

3 posts. Who had 3 posts? PM me to claim your prize. it's not a record, but it's impressive nonetheless.

[Dog Deever]

I don't think "no solution, eh? Oh well, fuck you, despite you being the most affected by it. It's nothing to me, I'm off for my bird inside a bird inside a bird with duck pate horses duvet" is in any way progressive.

Wow. What a confrontational little prick you can be. I've been dirt fucking poor for several extended periods of my life and you can stuff your assumptions up your arse.

Well, I was attempting to inject a little humour into the conversation as it happens- in order to attempt to diffuse any ill feeling.
It most certainly was not an attack on you personally, or a supposition that you are currently the 'rich man' in question- given the scenario that you 'had the power' to bring in the draconian laws, etc; you would then be the 'rich man' in the example- that's all. Just because I don't agree with your opinion fully on this matter, does not mean I'm out to confront you personally.

The fix I offer is to look for a better solution than the one you proposed, it may well be that it turns out to be you who comes up with one which I do support; because it isn't personal.

[Jim_Campbell]

The poor want to eat meat?  Too bad.

We're talking about a commodity whose cheapness is a direct product of how poorly other living creatures are treated. If you don't want to accept the inherent cruelty, I'm open to suggestions as to how you can improve standards of animal care, with the attendant drop in volume as well increased basic costs, without increasing the cost of the product.

I'm pretty sure cotton got more expensive once the cotton farmers couldn't use free slave labour in the fields. The one thing is a consequence of doing the other and I'm more than happy to entertain scenarios where that isn't the case, but I can't think of any.

Plus, as I noted, we're approaching a time when no animal need die to provide basic animal protein. One logical conclusion of this argument is to simply end meat production — that would be fair to everyone, and my objection to that is not political or sociological but rather that I balk at the planned extinction of hundreds of species.

Cheers

Jim

[sheridan]

*We're rapidly approaching the point where animal protein suitable for, say, Tesco Value Mince can be grown in vats anyway...

Apologies if this has been asked before, but would any of the vegetarians/vegans here be interested in eating lab grown meat? I understand that some choose not to eat animal flesh because they don't like the taste, but otherwise, would you still object?

Won't anyone think of the cyboons?

[Jim_Campbell]

Well, I was attempting to inject a little humour into the conversation as it happens- in order to attempt to diffuse any ill feeling.

Then I apologise unreservedly for snapping at you. There are some people on this forum —not you, I should stress— who persistently misrepresent pretty much anything I say to the extent where it feels a lot like trolling and I may be a little oversensitive on that score.

Cheers

Jim

[Dog Deever]

Well, I was attempting to inject a little humour into the conversation as it happens- in order to attempt to diffuse any ill feeling.

Then I apologise unreservedly for snapping at you. There are some people on this forum —not you, I should stress— who persistently misrepresent pretty much anything I say to the extent where it feels a lot like trolling and I may be a little oversensitive on that score.

Cheers

Jim

No problem. Tis teh internet.

[Tiplodocus]

As an added bonus, it notes that meat consumption is the worst contributer to climate change but you already know that but just refuse to admit it because bacon.

Now, lumping this particular idea in with the "woo" brigade is unfair. If we didn't farm animals for their meat, there'd be a lot less CO2 in the world. I don't expect this fact to change peoples' minds (it didn't change mine when I ate meat) but it's hardly on the same level as "chemtrails are evil".

Apologies I didn't mean to be dismissive of the idea, I picked my words very badly. The terrible environmental impact of the meat and dairy industry and sustainability is one of the reasons I am vegan and I genuinely meant that it was a bonus that the issue was being mentioned.

Here's the chem trail article now I am sober enough to do links...
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/10/27/geoengineering-aka-chemtrails-should-be-included-when-talking-about-climate-change-heres-why/

[Tiplodocus]

Pretend meat is not always about cravings. Sometimes it's just about convenience. I know that a quinoa and kale salad with pumpkin seeds is really the best thing to eat but it's sunday morning and I am hung over so some tempeh rashers in a roll wikl do nicely.

As for vat grown meat, it really does depend on your reason for being vegan/vegetarian. The stricter vegans would presumably have no truck with it because somewhere at the start of the process at least one animal would be killed or mistreated to harvestvstem cells or some such. I wouldn't go for it myself on those grounds plus "Yuck!"

[Hawkmumbler]

I'll probably never give up meat. Despite being an animal lover I also acknowledge my place in the food chain and as an omnivore.

I will say though that I only buy my meat from a local butchers that I KNOW give's their cattle a shit ton of space for a free range lifestyle and a quick death.

As a result I only eat meat two or tree times a week now, so not much of a shift towards vegetarianism as much as a greater understanding of where my food comes from.

[The Legendary Shark]

Interesting article, Tips, thanks.

[Famous Mortimer]

Apologies I didn't mean to be dismissive of the idea, I picked my words very badly. The terrible environmental impact of the meat and dairy industry and sustainability is one of the reasons I am vegan and I genuinely meant that it was a bonus that the issue was being mentioned.

Not at all - I'm as guilty of being an angry idiot on here as everyone, and I thought what you said didn't really fit in. The whole meat farming = "fossil fuel" argument is pretty simple, and I hope it changes minds, but even though I'm a vegetarian now, and will never eat meat again (having dabbled in my mid 20s), I could have been presented with that argument when I was younger and I'd have gone "but the Thursday night mixed grills at my local pub!"

[Professor Bear]

Despite being an animal lover I also acknowledge my place in the food chain and as an omnivore.

Humans are not a part of the food chain.  We eat meat not as part of our natural hunter/gatherer instincts, but because it's convenient.

[Hawkmumbler]

So are plants not part of the food chain? Are humans not consumed by other animals?