Last movie watched...

[radiator]

Yeah, that was always my slight issue with Shaun of the Dead (which I think is otherwise an almost perfect movie): there isn't quite enough of a 'hero's journey' arc for me. It feels like the whole film is building towards Shaun growing up, but in the end all he does is sort of try, and fail to do much of anything. There's no reason Liz should want to stay with him after other than pity, and as a couple they end up precisely back where they started. Maybe thats the point, but I always found it slightly unsatisfying as a narrative. The fact that he can keep zombie Ed around just makes it feel like he can have his cake and eat it, without having really earned it.

[JamesC]

Yeah, that was always my slight issue with Shaun of the Dead (which I think is otherwise an almost perfect movie): there isn't quite enough of a 'hero's journey' arc for me. It feels like the whole film is building towards Shaun growing up, but in the end all he does is sort of try, and fail to do much of anything. There's no reason Liz should want to stay with him after other than pity, and as a couple they end up precisely back where they started. Maybe thats the point, but I always found it slightly unsatisfying as a narrative. The fact that he can keep zombie Ed around just makes it feel like he can have his cake and eat it, without having really earned it.

Some leopards don't change their spots. Even after a zombie apocalypse.

[radiator]

Some leopards don't change their spots. Even after a zombie apocalypse.

But aren't most narratives structured around a protagonist overcoming challenges and ending the story changed as a result?

[shaolin_monkey]

Neither Shaun nor his girlfriend are particularly likeable.

I think the story arc was more to do with unrealistic expectations from both of them. In our mundane lives it's not possible to have exciting and romantic all the time. It's also not possible to get anywhere if you sit playing computer games or hit the pub all the time.

I always saw the ending as a compromise between them. She wanted exciting and romantic - he wanted pub and video games.

At the end of the film she gets her romantic, and he's allowed time with his buddy and a game.

[Jim_Campbell]

But aren't most narratives structured around a protagonist overcoming challenges and ending the story changed as a result?

Only relatively recently and, frankly, I find the slavish adherence of modern film makers to the notion of the 'character journey' pretty tiresome. Surely, one of the joys of Dredd was his Dirty-Harry-esque* near total lack of growth...?

Cheers

Jim

*Certainly in the first film. Later instalments force him to confront some of his fairly reprehensible character traits, but I don't think the films are necessarily improved by this. The brilliant, uncomfortable truth of Dirty Harry is: he's a monster, but he's a monster who's on your side. If your child was missing, if you were being chased down an alley by "a man with a kitchen knife and intent to rape" would you want the by-the-book cop, or would you want Harry?

[Professor Bear]

Star Wars fan films by the bucketload: Master Of Shadow, Smuggler's Run, Betrayal, Beyond the Dune Sea - I lump these together because they all suffer from the same basic problem that I see a lot in media created online, in that they have no beginning, middle or end, and look like snapshots of a larger whole, no matter how well-realised Betrayal's lightsaber fights or Master of Shadow's visual coherence, they just don't tell a story.  Beyond the Dune Sea's failure to do so is particularly unforgivable, as it takes a no-brainer scenario of Boba Fett climbing out of the Sarlacc Pit and fails to realise that that and his walk across the desert to civilization is the whole of the story it needs to tell, and can do so with an economy that is achievable, needing as it does only a desert location and some cosplayers - both of which it has.  Yes, I know, fan movies and all that, and getting anything finished and put out there for consumption is certainly commendable in and of itself, so I shan't be too harsh and remember that stuff like Minty has me spoilt, I only suggest that anyone looking for something other than fan-indulgence should probably look elsewhere.
Special mention really does need to go to Smuggler's Run and the makers' multinational guerilla location shooting tactics, though seeing cosplayers farting about actual locations from Episode IV took me out of the fiction a bit.
Star Wars: Threads Of Destiny is all over the place in terms of production standards, but it is still miles ahead of most sci-fi b-movies churned out by the likes of The Asylum or SyFy, and manages it on a reputed seven thousand dollar budget.  The effects are okay, English doesn't seem to be anyone's first language, and lots of minor things seem out of place for a Star Wars movie, but with a proper story (albeit one that cannibalises Anakin's plot arc from the Clone Wars tv show), a fat running time (148 minutes), and some genuinely good action beats (a starship escape scene, a planetary invasion and the lightsaber duels), as long as you can ignore occasionally-glaring dissonance between cgi and actors (like the great shot of a starship descending through a crowded skyline of futuristic buildings and flying traffic suddenly cutting to a shot of the characters walking through a graveyard near the director's house) and some pacing problems, it's actually pretty fun.
Mythica: The Darkspore - a kickstarter-funded fantasy movie.  Easily as good - if not better - than the vast majority of straight-to-dvd schlock-fantasy adventure flicks you see filling supermarket bargain shelves.  Some heroes band together to find the mystic wing-wang of dinky-dango or something.  By-the-numbers tosh, really, but I feel comfortable talking trash about it because as a production, it's ready for prime-time even if the story isn't the most original thing you'll ever see.

[JOE SOAP]

There's no reason Liz should want to stay with him after other than pity, and as a couple they end up precisely back where they started. Maybe thats the point

I see it as a film that continues in the vein of George Romero; it's a satire and the clue's in the title: Shaun of the Dead - even after surviving the zombie apocalypse these character are going nowhere.

[JOE SOAP]

But aren't most narratives structured around a protagonist overcoming challenges and ending the story changed as a result?

Only relatively recently and, frankly, I find the slavish adherence of modern film makers to the notion of the 'character journey' pretty tiresome. Surely, one of the joys of Dredd was his Dirty-Harry-esque* near total lack of growth...?

The audience shares responsibility in that state of inertia i.e. studios give the audience what it pays for.

Outside the bounds of big box-office paint-by-numbers sets like James Bond and Fast & Furious, you'll only find unchanging lead characters in cheaper indies like John Wick, Nightcrawler, Ex Machina, Happy Go Lucky or the the older flicks like Being There, The French Connection.

[shaolin_monkey]

Nightcrawler - such a good film! Everyone in it sold their soul, and Jake's character seriously gave me the creeps. Masterful commentary on people with no moral compass.

[radiator]

Surely, one of the joys of Dredd was his Dirty-Harry-esque* near total lack of growth...?

Er, but both Dredd and Anderson definitely change over the course of the film - if only slightly in the case of Dredd (who arguably isn't even the protagonist).

I always saw the ending as a compromise between them. She wanted exciting and romantic - he wanted pub and video games.

And the film ends with... Shaun playing videogames/watching telly and going to the pub.

In our mundane lives it's not possible to have exciting and romantic all the time.

I didn't read it that way at all - Liz wanting or expecting Shaun to grow up a bit and perhaps do something with her other than going to the exact same pub for a night out is neither 'unrealistic', nor quite the same as her demanding an 'exciting' or 'romantic' life. The way I saw it, Shaun pretty much gets his own way, while she just settles.

What makes it strange to me is that right up until the end, the film is very much following the 'hero's journey' formula, only to abandon it right at the end. As I say maybe that's the point, maybe it's 'satire', or a subversion of that very formula, but I don't read it like that until the end, which just seems a little jarring.

I think if the final scene had showed a bit more of how Shaun had progressed - and it could have even been tiny things, it would have, for me, made for a much more satisfying ending.

[Mardroid]

Liz wanted Shawn to make an effort, and he did. He might not have been entirely successful but his heart was in the right place. Sure, there was a zombie apocalypse to spur him on, but I think losing the relationship (which was a real possibility at that point) was a factor.

Just to see how much effort he made just look at the two points when he told her he would climb up to her window. First time he gave up after a small effort. Second time he risked his life and climbed all the way. He'd already come a long way.

Sure, they ended up vegging out in front of the telly, but while in the first place it was mainly apathy in Shawn's case (and I think his character is mainly guilty of laziness rather than selfishness, even at the beginning. His mate is really the selfish one) I think they've both come quite a way. Shawn made an effort, and proved himself somewhat. And Liz has come to the conclusion chilling in front of the tv and popping out to the pub for a beer or two later, is no bad thing.

They're physically in the same place, but mentally I think they're both in a much more positive place. He'll likely make more effort in his life, but without her being overly judgemental which can also be demoralizing and hold him back.

Pegg's character in End of the World is only vaguely similar to Shawn. He selfishly follows a nostalgic dream of a past that never really existed.

[ThryllSeekyr]

I saw bits n pieces of that last film that bridges the gap between Rise of the Planet of the Apes and Planet of the Apes (Which ever version you prefer!) any time I bothered to lean over to the right hand side of my computer tower and other stuff I have obscuring my view of the television while playing Elite Dangerous late into the night and early morning.

I swear I have never properly sat down to watch this film the many times I have had a chance to. Aside from the excellent computer effects that have me believe that those apes can be more human in the walking and talking and gun holding and firing mannerisms. One of the rare films of this day that don't overplay our advances in CGI. it does what it needs to do and that's it!

I love the part in this where the evolved primates are fighting amongst themselves on some partially constructed high rise tower of mainly just scaffolding. Those falling bodies are so much a reminder of their larger cousin. A oversized gorilla called Kong.

I had been think for some time, would it be more appropriate if the Fomorians from Slaine were just these apes. (I know it's not the correct term, but just go with it!) May be those occupying that part of northern Europe could be one and the same after such a time when the Earth starts to revolve much slower and all the water from equator is drawn towards the poles. Causing, Ireland and the rest of Britain to become one land with each other that part of N.E. they are closest to. Yeah, I think that's how it works....

All the humans devolve enough that they need to go through a second stone age as well. This almost fits....

[Jim_Campbell]

Er, but both Dredd and Anderson definitely change over the course of the film - if only slightly in the case of Dredd (who arguably isn't even the protagonist).

Hence my use of the term "near-total". The answer to my question:

Surely, one of the joys of Dredd was his Dirty-Harry-esque near total lack of growth...?

Is fairly obviously "yes". No part of that question requires Dredd to be the protagonist, and I don't even mention Anderson...!

Cheers

Jim

[Tiplodocus]

Thanks for the heads up Bear. I watched two of yhose and they are a but special.

I literally have no idea what was going on in Master of Shadow. And Smuggler's Run managed the not inconsiderable task of making George Lucas' dialogue sound naturalistic.

Like you say, Minty has spoiled us by having proper story and script.

[Dark Jimbo]

Surely, one of the joys of Dredd was his Dirty-Harry-esque* near total lack of growth...?

Er, but both Dredd and Anderson definitely change over the course of the film - if only slightly in the case of Dredd (who arguably isn't even the protagonist).

It's very like Fury Road in that interesting distinction between the main characters (Dredd/Max) and the protagonists (Anderson/Furiosa).