PROG 1320

[Wils]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why seeing shit in a comic is offensive.

Neither do I, in the *right* comic. But this is just *MY OPINION*. I know kids see their own shite and if they've got younger brothers or sisters, are introduced to theirs as well, and that's quite normal. It's normal because they're little kids and don't have proper control over their bowel movements. Adults generally do, with a few exceptions. Ok, so it wasn't especially graphic, but it was there, and it didn't need to be. Apart from anything else, it was a blatant shock tactic that did nothing to further the story or character development because we already knew he had a poo fixation and he'd anounced another revelation in the speech balloon. Take away the shock factor, and we're just left with another piece of story padding, which there has been plenty.

Bottom line is; I'm keeping this Prog away from my kid, and that's my perogative as a parent.

[Art]

Personally I'm not that fussed, though it does seem a little infantile. The turning-inside-out thing was quite cool though, but doesn't make up for this being such a nothing story. Throw it back in the alien-pit, I say.

[Tu-plang]

But this all depends on the mental abilities of the child to process images and relate them to personal experiences that make the process of 'reading' comic panels (in this case) and creating emotional responses to it work. This will vary vastly from child-to-child depending on, amongst other things, their level of intelligence, life experiences and socio-economic background. IMHO, it's wrong to tar all kids with the brush that assumes everything will go over their heads or they just won't notice anyway. Their minds are a darn sight more active than ours, as they're hard-wired to absorb as much information as possible. I agree that there will be a lot of kids that wouldn't pick up on something like this, but there'll be a hell of a lot that do. On the whole, kids notice far more than we give them credit for. They just don't tell us all the time.

How old a kid are we talking here?

Everybody makes too much fuss over this stuff, kids think worse every second.  It seems as soon as you stop being one you forget what it's like; kids aren't stupid and don't need constant protection from things like this.

[JimBob]

 Never really sure about media influence on kids, I know I see a lot of white pompey teens addressing each other as "nigga" and making out they're  from East LA just to the south of Hampshire and I've known black kids who've gone from southern to Jamaican accents over night. While this is a very obvious example of kids aping media images I wander how much it works on a more subconcious level, personally I haven't got a problem with the fecal matter scene but I certaintly wouldnt dismiss parents who have.

[damnandblast]

"Sin/Dex: Can anyone say this was unexpected."

Err.. yes. Next time I'll buy a proper Intel pre-cog processor, not one of these Taiwanese clones.

Nigel

[damnandblast]

"For people to be offended by this but not blink an eyelid when Dredd, Johnny Alpha, Slaine or however are killing armies of people every storyline seems a bit ironic to me."

Absolutely. And by the time I judge my children old enough to read 2000AD with its graphic depictions of mutilation, skinned faces, grievous wounding and assorted violent deaths the idea of some nutter soiling himself will not figure on the radar.

Nigel

[Tiplodocus]

I am reminded of the recent debate over the certifacation of "SWEET SIXTEEN".  It got an 18 certificate because of excessive use of the C-word whereas BLACKHAWK DOWN with its non-stop excessive violence and gore rated only a 15.  Absurd.  

[Slippery PD]

and Mr Tips if anyone has ever been to Greenock (I am originally from a small village just outside the town) will know that gratious use of the c-word is the least of their worries.  

It seems to me that society has itself chasing its @rse over political correctness......

Yer Slippo

[Queen Firey-Bou]

I don't like the implication that its a kids brain power & socio-economic backround that affects their sensitivity to media stuff. yes of course they are affected by media, but it depends on the context that their family & close ones put upon it. I know some disturbed teen gals who suffer a lack of tlc who are always prattling on about the exorsist, various horror stuff. thats bad. theyre paranoid about the bogey man , disturbed freeked out kids. However my rather babyish, sensitive 9 year old gal just 'read' the offending story, said it was "cool". liked a particular picture & didn't like another, because the cut off foot was discusting. as i suspected TOTally not noticing the shite. What i think is far more nasty & insidious an influence on kids is everyday tv, celebs, pop stars...kids dramas...at early-before-tea o'clock are all about boyfriends & copping off, & the soaps ! and the spice girls who started a trend of our toddlers dressing like slappers....
I am not dissing a parents perogative at all, we know ourselves best about our kids. i just know that they themselves are constantly challenging my black & white assumptions, raising kids nowadays is hellish. life for a teen ager nowadays is hellish, comix are the least of our worries.

[El Spurioso]

I'm reminded of a Calvin & Hobbes cartoon.  Calvin sits reading the newspapers and says "According to this, by the age of six the average child has witness 1000 killings on TV...  I find that very worrying."
"Yes," says Hobbes, "shocking, isn't it?"
"No, it's  not that," says Calvin, "It's just that I must have been watching all the wrong channels..."

[Rob1971]

'Sadly, I think this statement goes more against your argument than for it. The whole reason we don't get riled up about Dredd and the other examples you gave blowing hoards of people to bits with huge guns is *because* they aren't real.'

No need to be sad. Hey, I think your argument is pretty garbled, too. You say you don't have a problem with 2000AD violence because the characters aren't real, yet you have problem with Ashcroft crapping himself.

Um, don't know how to tell you this, but he's not real either. Asylum's not a documentary. Fictional characters. If reality's your benchmark for offensiveness, that is.

As for not letting your son read the prog. You're his father. I totally respect your decision on that.

Rob

[Wils]

Just been reading my previous posts, and in retospect seem faaaaar too serious and ranty for me (those that know me know I'm not usually like that). Sometimes I think the 'serious parent' head doesn't get turned off properly and mingles with my normal inane thinkings. Hands-in-the-air time: Sorry if I've wound anyone up.

I still stand by my basic arguement, though, but think this sounds more like the 'normal' me:

'Usually let my daughter read my Progs, but I don't think she's *quite* ready to be introduced to poo in a strip just yet. Big shooty death, on the other hand, she loves.'


Normal Service Resumed
Wils

[Capt.Zeep]

Rob, it's great to see a writer answering criticism on the message board.  
I think the Nemesis comparisons came at least partly with the look of the thing, though I agree boo did a top job.  It was that episode where we found out the mad vicar's dastardly plan, kind of a bit Torquemada - esque.
I was abit surprised at the shit thing, but agree it's certainly no more shocking than the fact the guy's sitting there with his foot off!
All in all I've enjoyed Asylum, look forward to the rest of it!

[wampa]

alright , so i*drew* 'the shit' in question , and its about time i had my say.......

usually i enjoy my job immensely , but every so often tharg throws something at me that goes against even my strict moral code - and yes , that scene was one of them - however i must say as i'm a newby i just bit my lip and drew it without complaining to tharg as i should have . now , i have to continue my career knowing that i was the one who showed a bit of a poo to thousands of kids.....how can i live with myself  ? well , i have 3 wee brothers between 9 and 13 , and you know what ? i think they might just actually laugh at it - i'll ask em......

in the meantime , i'd say , that in an age where terrorists are lying in fields firing missiles at jumbo jets - i'd find something else to worry about rather than a poo in a comic .

nuff said -

boo.

[paulvonscott]

There's lots of things that aren't as morally objectionable as killings (even the brutal killings and sadistic mutilation seen in Asylum), for instance we could have had some hardcore sex in there and maybe a bit of piss and vomit and possibly some mucus.  Great fun, like a Garth ennis open day.

None of which (like people crapping themselves) I really want to be entertained with in 2000AD.  I appreciate that it's probably funny for some people, but I just thought it was a cheap joke taken a bit too far, certainly not played as well as one of Robo-jaws cludgie jokes (I didn't feel particularly threatened by 'The Poo of Satanus').

Any moral crap (heh) aside, it certainly didn't improve or particularly endear the story to me.