The Political Thread

[Old Tankie]

Being that I was born in the early 80s I'm not really in much of a position to comment, but I must say that every time I see videos, or pictures of 70s Britain before Thatcher it looks like a miserable, disheveled craphole and I get the feeling I should be thankful for growing up in the 80s (except for the music). 

If Thatcher did so much bad for Britain then why does it seem to look so much worse before she came to power? or do they just handpick bad photos whenever they do anything on the 70s or something?

Also Carry On at your Own Convenience didn't paint a very good picture of the Trade Unions, maybe that's not the best source for evidence but its the only one which comes to mind at the moment 

No, the old videos were right, Britain was a shit hole in the '70s.  I'm actually old enough to have lived through it, not just read about it in a load of left-wing publications.  "The great nationalised industries", who are they trying to kid.  They were great if you liked power cuts; a three day working week, (of course, that meant getting paid for only three days); transport workers always on strike, so you couldn't even get to your three day working factory; unburied bodies in Liverpool; rubbish piled high and ten foot deep in Piccadilly Circus and Leicester Square 'cos the bin men were on strike; '77 the firemen were on strike, (I can remember that 'cos I was drafted in with the rest of the Regiment to drive the Green Goddesses); 29,000,000 working days lost through strikes in 1978; closed shop trade unions, where you had to join a union if you wanted a certain job; industries where you couldn't get a job unless you knew someone; very high mortgage rates, very high inflation; Denis Healey having to go to the IMF with a begging bowl; controls on how much money you could take out of the country, £50 if my memory serves me right (think Cyprus, only worse).  Oh! and square steering wheels on some models of Austin Allegros, that was a design classic!!  Yea, the '70s were bloody marvellous!!

[Stan]

People with no idea who Thatcher was 'ecstatic' that she's dead
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/people-with-no-idea-who-thatcher-was-ecstatic-that-shes-dead-2013040865066

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Saw that yesterday, and it made me chuckle. It's like I said to a mate:

"I don't remember you being this happy when she left Downing street. Maybe it's because YOU WERE ONLY SEVEN!"

I don't think I even knew what politics was when I was seven.

[Spikes]

Being that I was born in the early 80s I'm not really in much of a position to comment, but I must say that every time I see videos, or pictures of 70s Britain before Thatcher it looks like a miserable, disheveled craphole and I get the feeling I should be thankful for growing up in the 80s (except for the music). 

If Thatcher did so much bad for Britain then why does it seem to look so much worse before she came to power? or do they just handpick bad photos whenever they do anything on the 70s or something?

Also Carry On at your Own Convenience didn't paint a very good picture of the Trade Unions, maybe that's not the best source for evidence but its the only one which comes to mind at the moment 

No, the old videos were right, Britain was a shit hole in the '70s.  I'm actually old enough to have lived through it, not just read about it in a load of left-wing publications.  "The great nationalised industries", who are they trying to kid.  They were great if you liked power cuts; a three day working week, (of course, that meant getting paid for only three days); transport workers always on strike, so you couldn't even get to your three day working factory; unburied bodies in Liverpool; rubbish piled high and ten foot deep in Piccadilly Circus and Leicester Square 'cos the bin men were on strike; '77 the firemen were on strike, (I can remember that 'cos I was drafted in with the rest of the Regiment to drive the Green Goddesses); 29,000,000 working days lost through strikes in 1978; closed shop trade unions, where you had to join a union if you wanted a certain job; industries where you couldn't get a job unless you knew someone; very high mortgage rates, very high inflation; Denis Healey having to go to the IMF with a begging bowl; controls on how much money you could take out of the country, £50 if my memory serves me right (think Cyprus, only worse).  Oh! and square steering wheels on some models of Austin Allegros, that was a design classic!!  Yea, the '70s were bloody marvellous!!

Oh, the 70's was all that - and more!
Bloody brilliant decade though, is my opinion. Still, i suspect it was harder, and a lot less enjoyable - at times, for my parents.
Those that didnt live through, or can remember the 70's, i can well imagine it must seem like Britain then was a third World country - which by today's standards it probably was. Certainly it was only a few steps away from total collapse on more than one occasion.
And the early/mid 80's was just as harsh and just as extreme.
Strange, and turbulent times to be growing up in, but im glad that i did.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Don't talk to me about the 70s.  I remember them only too well.
Building snowmen with my dad, cutting out dinosaurs at playschool, imagining the baby Jesus's head as a giant sweet when we got to the relevant line in 'Away in a Manger'.
Heady times, man.  Yep, I remember the 70s (or about 2 to 3 years' worth of them anyway).

[Frank]

Best reaction I've seen so far has been Irvine Welsh, who said that the private sector should pay for Thatcher's state funeral.

It would set them back £5 million, apparently. I think Welsh was grabbing a backie off the freewheelin' Ken Loach's more aphoristic response:

I think her funeral should be privatised, put out to competitive tender, and we should accept the cheapest funeral. I'm sure it's what she would have wanted.

[Something Fishy]

Saw that yesterday, and it made me chuckle. It's like I said to a mate:

"I don't remember you being this happy when she left Downing street. Maybe it's because YOU WERE ONLY SEVEN!"

I don't think I even knew what politics was when I was seven.

Must admit I was one of those who was very happy when she left.  I celebrated loudly.

But I was young back then and had been growing up in a mining town hit with 33% unemployment and seen most of the people around me pushed out of work.

As I've aged I've kind of re-evaluated her to an extent.  I do not like the way she went about it but change was needed and the more middle ground politics we have now are possible because we don't have unions running the country but at the same time we haven't entirely ditched good rights and protection either.

not a fan at all but I guess she was a certain person for a certain time.

[Frank]

Yep, I remember the 70s (or about 2 to 3 years' worth of them anyway).

Same here. I don't know how old Old Tankie actually is, but his description of the seventies sounds a lot more like the collective picture of the seventies drawn by TV and newspapers than a personal reminiscence, drawn from direct experience. I remember the regular power cuts he mentions (which lasted well into the eighties), but I'm sure I gained my knowledge of unburied bodies in seventies Liverpool from the same sources as he did.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Yes the 70's were crap in certain places and we all know why but obviously some will deny that it had anything to do with the Unions, which I find sad!

As for Thatcher, I agreed with some of her policies and not with others but hey, she was elected by the majority 3 times and after she went John Major was elected by a majority. You can find the numbers online, if you so desire it!

Now for the Champagne Socialist Billy Bragg, who I find to be just a wee bit of a hypocrite (just like most left wing comedians).
He mentions that there has to be two wage earners nowadays to survive. I beg to differ, many people manage to support a large family with both parents having no jobs! My parents both worked in the 70's and 80's, strange that!

Affordable decent housing, now this is an interesting one! Maggie gave every council house occupant the chance to own their own home at a very reasonable price. The money earned from these sales was supposed to go back into the system to provide new council houses. I know none of the Conservative councils did this because they are evil but at least all the Labour councils did build new houses. Hang on a second, they didn't, weird that isn't it!

Domestic growth is driven by credit, he could have a point there but at what stage does this begin and end and who do we blame in this want it now culture, which is supported by all people from all parties. The only credit that I have ever had is my mortgage and I don't own a credit card, or as I like to call it, a DEBT card!

Topping up wages, why! I could go back to the above answer of everyone wanting an X-Box with expensive games, the latest smart phone, etc... Every generation has the list of wants, I think it was certain jeans and trainers when I was a school. This will never end, it's just how you are brought up that helps you deal with this fact of life.

The spare bedroom conundrum is a difficult one. Obviously if you have an extra bedroom who cares but this should only come into effect when you have a situation where an individual or couple live in a 3 or 4 bedroom council house. They should move on to something smaller but only if available. Just think of the money they will save not heating such a big place for a start and the upkeep of having fewer rooms!

As for Rupert Murdoch, if you watch Sky or any of the programmes on his stations then shut the fuck up. If you believe in something so bloody strongly then follow it through at all times! Many folks have become mega powerful including the hypocrite who was in charge of Apple but people loved him because he made nice stuff and overtook the evil Microsoft. I always find these debates hilarious but going back to Murdoch, don't buy his products if you hate him. Just one thing, don't tell me not to buy something, if I want Virgin and an iPad then I'll fucking well buy them both as it's a free market, to an extent!

Cynicism and greed, well I am a cynic with a few things but I have never been greedy. I know what I can afford and what is most important to me in life, perhaps other people should start to understand what is really important in life!

I had to write all that, as I said earlier Billy Bragg is not someone who I would follow in his two up two down, or doesn't he live in a house like that anymore! I wonder if he has taken money from the hand of Murdoch, now that would be interesting but I can't be arsed to find out! If you are going to slag something off then please make sure that you don't leave yourself open to being called out on such things!

As for people celebrating the Death of Maggie, well that's very nice of them!

[Frank]

As for Thatcher, I agreed with some of her policies and not with others but hey, she was elected by the majority 3 times and after she went John Major was elected by a majority. You can find the numbers online, if you so desire it!

Yes you can, John. Thatcher never won a majority of the public vote:

1979: 44% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1979

1983: 42% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983

1987: 42% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1987

At that first election, she had only 2 million more votes than the ailing Labour administration. Whether you agree with the results thrown up by our odd electoral system, which delivered huge parliamentary majorities to both Thatcher and Blair after much less decisive electoral mandates from the voting public, is another matter. Most independent observers agree that it was the squaddies who caught a South Atlantic suntan who actually won the 1983 general election; Thatcher had been odds-on to lose until that point.

[Dredd Head]

Now for the Champagne Socialist Billy Bragg, who I find to be just a wee bit of a hypocrite (just like most left wing comedians).

He mentions that there has to be two wage earners nowadays to survive. I beg to differ, many people manage to support a large family with both parents having no jobs!

The story of our country, Don't work, Have kids, Go on holiday. Meanwhile all working tax payers pick up the slack.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

It's the majority of the system we use at this moment in time. Until we adopt the Libs version then that is how the vote will always be.

[Jim_Campbell]

I know [...] what is most important to me in life, perhaps other people should start to understand what is really important in life!

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women?

Cheers

Jim

[COMMANDO FORCES]

That goes without saying

[Frank]

The story of our country, Don't work, Have kids, Go on holiday. Meanwhile all working tax payers pick up the slack.

The majority of the welfare bill goes to pensioners and child tax credits (which all working families received until recently):

20.3 million families receive some kind of benefit (64% of all families), about 8.7 million of them pensioners. For 9.6 million families, benefits make up more than half of their income (30% of all families), around 5.3 million of them pensioners. The number of families receiving benefits will be between 1 and 2 million fewer now because of changes to child tax credits that mean some working families who previously got a small amount now get nothing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths