Happy Zombie Jesus Weekend to you all!

[TordelBack]

I'm exceptionally jealous of those who can cope with the idea that their lives and those of their familes and friends are utterly worthless and pointless.

Apart from the notion that without religion there is no morality, this is the single thing that gets me most about theism.  Surely if this is all there is (and I firmly believe that), our lives right, here, right now, are worth far more than if they are just a brief unpleasant entrance exam for eternity?  

If you'll permit me to expound some trite personal philosophy.

Even without a conventional afterlife, your physical death isn't "the end" of you, because your life isn't just contained in your body - it's in the web of family and community that your body inhabits.  Your small conscious self is gone forever, but for good or ill the impression of your life, and how it was lived, reverberates long after you're gone.  Your actions while alive determine how "you" continue to act on the world after the conscious atomic self is gone.

BTW, I also love many of the Christian traditions and legacies, its churches, writings, art, singing and communty supports, and often wish I could ho back to being that 14 year old boy who thought seriously a vocation - but only in the same way that I wish I could go to bed on Christmas Eve without filling my son's stocking.  

[TordelBack]

DAMNIT, must learn to Preview heart-felt posts.

[Adrian Bamforth]

Some of those disabled kids left abandoned in Romanian orphanages must have been right c**ts once - serves them right if you ask me.

[scutfink]

I don't like fundamentalism, whether religious or scientitfic in nature. I'm a professional scientist. As it stands, nobody has come up with an experiement to test the existence of God, which is as much a failure on the part of science as it is religion. So, god remains an untested hypothesis, nothing more, but nothing less.

Is there anything less than an untested hypothesis, surely this makes god no better than a vague notion, much like my idea that all sub atomic interactions are controlled by a miniscule army of lime green penguins carrying particles around in (comparitively) oversized wheelbarrows...

There's the philospical angle I've mentioned before. If this is all there is, just a cold uncaring universe, then right and wrong are a matter for society, of majority opinion. Sure, there's absolutely no need what so ever for a god to dicate and regulate all this, but somehow we keep electing people like Thatcher and Blair, when god would clearly prefer Ken Livingstone. Mind you, I think we're steadily becoming a kinder society even though religious belief is (supposedly) declining.

a) Exactly, it's OUR world, WE'RE the ones who should be held responsible for acting irresposibly.

b) Would god prefer Ken Livingstone?

c)  Kinder Society/ Relgious Decline? Cause this is Effect, Effect, have you met Cause? :)

Personally I have great respect for faith, it can move mountains and all that, I'm just not big on religion. Do we really need Charlton Heston in a bedsheet to tell us the point of life is to advance and expand the Human experience for the benifit of all?

[Robin Low]

"Surely if this is all there is (and I firmly believe that), our lives right, here, right now, are worth far more than if they are just a brief unpleasant entrance exam for eternity?"

"Even without a conventional afterlife, your physical death isn't "the end" of you, because your life isn't just contained in your body - it's in the web of family and community that your body inhabits. Your small conscious self is gone forever, but for good or ill the impression of your life, and how it was lived, reverberates long after you're gone. Your actions while alive determine how "you" continue to act on the world after the conscious atomic self is gone."


The universe expands, the suns die, atoms stop vibrating and everything goes cold. Nothing that has ever happening or ever will happen has mattered. Nope, everything is pointless and worthless, I'm afraid.

Depressing, isn't it? Even the thought of kicking Richard Dawkins in the bollocks until he haemorrhages to death can't cheer me up.

Regards

Robin

[House of Usher]

"The universe expands, the suns die, atoms stop vibrating and everything goes cold. Nothing that has ever happening or ever will happen has mattered. Nope, everything is pointless and worthless, I'm afraid."

Considering that's your outlook, it amazes me that you can be an agnostic when you sound so much like a nihilist!

[Robin Low]

"Is there anything less than an untested hypothesis, surely this makes god no better than a vague notion, much like my idea that all sub atomic interactions are controlled by a miniscule army of lime green penguins carrying particles around in (comparitively) oversized wheelbarrows..."

Einstein tested that one back in the 30s. It was gerbils and they're more avocardo, but broadly speaking you're right.

"b) Would god prefer Ken Livingstone?"

I've really no idea, but it would make an excellent title for a Sunday sermon.

"Do we really need Charlton Heston in a bedsheet to tell us the point of life is to advance and expand the Human experience for the benifit of all?"

Since most religions - even Christianity - don't actually make that case, I suspect that we probably do.

Regards

Robin

[Robin Low]

"Considering that's your outlook, it amazes me that you can be an agnostic when you sound so much like a nihilist!"

I get by with the hope that there is something else besides this (utterly wonderful and fascinating) universe and existence. I'm not overly bothered by what it is, just as long as there's some form of continued existence where everyone can be happy and find interesting things to do the time (yes, even the bastards who use their mobiles when driving).

Regards

Robin

[TordelBack]

Nothing that has ever happening or ever will happen has mattered

But it will have mattered - it'll be how this universe was for those that lived in it.  Just because something ends doesn't mean that it has no meaning - it doesn't require an observer to imbue it with significance, or a survivor to report it.  A thought in your own head that never finds expression still matters - to you.  Life is its own reward.  And any other ghastly platitudes I can muster at this hour on a Friday, when I'm still (nominally) at work.

[I, Cosh]

I'm exceptionally jealous of those who can cope with the idea that their lives and those of their familes and friends are utterly worthless and pointless.

Without bothering to do more than scan the thread so far, I'd just like to add my comments on this line that jumped out at me. Put simply, pointlessness and/or meaninglessness does not equal worthlessness. I find the urge to insist that life should have a point beyond simply being life hard to understand.

Bad atheists...I was afraid they might push old ladies in front of buses because they lack a social conscience and fear no divine retribution.

I realise you're joking but I regularly have this very argument with my mate. He maintains that you have to believe in God because otherwise you'd just go out raping and killing whenever you fancied it as there'd be nothing to stop you. Aside from the worry that he's some sort of Dexter-style functional psychopath, I just smile and say that if you believe life simply ends then it is makes it more precious.


I find mythologies fascinating. The way people try to make sense of the world around them or create an imperative for behaving in a certain way by essentially making shit up is wonderful. I view Christianity in exactly the same way I view the Norse or Greek myths.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQoPAXIvLyA" target="_blank">Making life worthwhile tonight