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Author Topic: SSsss Judge Death is here! My Possession script is now online!  (Read 2873 times)

El Spurioso

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #15 on: 11 June, 2002, 11:15:48 PM »
Hey Scoje:  Good to see you starting to take constructive criticism.  I've read the first section of the script and have some comments to make:


First: Good use of atmosphere.  As someone mentioned elsewhere you go a bit overboard with description, but I think it's acceptable as a way of communicating the desolation of the location.

Second: Your script formatting is completely and utterly wrong.  As I'm sure you've been told in the past, there are very clearly defined ways that scripts should be laid-out, to the extent that studios (especially US ones) won't even *look* at scripts unless they're formatted exactly right, even down to how you bind the pages together.  I accept you can't always trust a web-browser not to go shagging-up the formatting of a document but there are some fundamental errors in there: no slug-lines, no scene numbers, dialogue refs and dialogue on the same lines, etc.  I'm sure there are plenty of online tutorials about this, and it's worth you checking it out.

Thirdly:  Your dialogue is still out, I'm afraid.  I don't want to repeat another boring series of posts with you telling my why you're right and I'm wrong, so I shan't be replying to them when they occur, but, for example:

JUDGE IRWIN
Found anything of interest?

JUDGE BOURELLE
Yes. Deposits of copper, zink ore and magnesite. And plenty of it.

JUDGE IRWIN
This is beyond expectation. An entire parallel world, seemingly rich in mineral resource. Almost too good to be true.

JUDGE BOURELLE
Let’s hope otherwise. Once the robot has taken sufficient sample, we’ll return to Mega City One.
*********

All you have to do is read these aloud to know they simply aren't right.  Try it.  Seriously - there is *nobody* in the world who speaks like that.  That exchange might actually go something like this:

IRWIN:
Anything?

BOURELLE (grinning):
A-ffirm...  We got copper, zink, magnesite; you want it, it's down there.

IRWIN (punching the air):
Paydirt.

BOURELL:
Yeah - one big parallel-world free-for-all.  Think we'll get medals back in the Meg?

IRWIN:
Let's find out...  Get the mek collecting samples and we can head home.



.....Or something.  It may not be Shakespeare, but at least you can say it out-loud without it sounding like someone reading from an autocue.  Aaanyway.  That's my little crit for the day.  Nice atmos, nice description, bad formatting and bad dialogue.  Can't comment on the story because I ain't not read it.

Thread Zero

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #16 on: 12 June, 2002, 12:34:19 AM »
Uh oh -I gotta disagree fundamentally here Si. Big time.

Oh thing just before I start (hee hee) I did notice 4 small typos in it. My script not your post Si! So I spotted them first!:)

Na na na na na!


Second: Your script formatting is completely and utterly wrong. As I'm sure you've been told in the past, there are very clearly defined ways that scripts should be laid-out, to the extent that studios (especially US ones) won't even *look* at scripts unless they're formatted exactly right, even down to how you bind the pages together. I accept you can't always trust a web-browser not to go shagging-up the formatting of a document but there are some fundamental errors in there: no slug-lines, no scene numbers, dialogue refs and dialogue on the same lines, etc. I'm sure there are plenty of online tutorials about this, and it's worth you checking it out.

You are wrong here Si. Sorry but my script is originally in Final DRAFT. Software that costs nearly 100 quid! It is pasted to an email then emailed to Wake. Hence the format you see. It is written exactly as the scripts I've sent to people in the US, and no one has said those were in the wrong format.

I have FINAL DRAFT SOFTWARE!!!
Argghhh, I have said that a million times before. Speech goes in the middle. Yes I know. I know all about format, believe me!!!!!!!

By the way scripts don't have scene numbers on them. Only the shooting script. Big difference.


Re Dialogue - well I disagree completely. You see Si, you have fallen for the biggest mistake of them all.

What you cry?

You think Judges talk like citizens. Well I don't think they do. The judges are trained pros.

Thirdly: Your dialogue is still out, I'm afraid. I don't want to repeat another boring series of posts with you telling my why you're right and I'm wrong, so I shan't be replying to them when they occur, but, for example:

JUDGE IRWIN
Found anything of interest?

JUDGE BOURELLE
Yes. Deposits of copper, zink ore and magnesite. And plenty of it.

JUDGE IRWIN
This is beyond expectation. An entire parallel world, seemingly rich in mineral resource. Almost too good to be true.

JUDGE BOURELLE
Let’s hope otherwise. Once the robot has taken sufficient sample, we’ll return to Mega City One.
*********

All you have to do is read these aloud to know they simply aren't right. Try it. Seriously - there is *nobody* in the world who speaks like that. That exchange might actually go something like this:

IRWIN:
Anything?

BOURELLE (grinning):
A-ffirm... We got copper, zink, magnesite; you want it, it's down there.

IRWIN (punching the air):
Paydirt.

BOURELL:
Yeah - one big parallel-world free-for-all. Think we'll get medals back in the Meg?

IRWIN:
Let's find out... Get the mek collecting samples and we can head home.


I think your dialogue sounds crappy. Sorry but I do. I want my judges to speak serious, well educated if you like. They are not some joe cit. They are conducting a serious survey on a unknown world!I f you read most of Wagner's stuff - most, not all, but most of his judges speak in a similar fashion.

scojo

JimBob

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #17 on: 12 June, 2002, 12:50:15 AM »
 I understand what your trying to do informalising the speach but there is a diifference between this and making them sound like they've just learnt English. Lets take the example given:JUDGE IRWIN
Found anything of interest?

JUDGE BOURELLE
Yes. Deposits of copper, zink ore and magnesite. And plenty of it.

JUDGE IRWIN
This is beyond expectation. An entire parallel world, seemingly rich in mineral resource. Almost too good to be true.

JUDGE BOURELLE
Let’s hope otherwise. Once the robot has taken sufficient sample, we’ll return to Mega City One

If you decide to go down the formal rout, I disagree but it's a reasonable choice, then try to listen to people who talk formally, real Judges making decisions, people citing law etc. They manage to get it to roll much more smoothly.



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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #18 on: 12 June, 2002, 12:54:29 AM »


IRWIN:
Anything?

BOURELLE (grinning):
A-ffirm... We got copper, zink, magnesite; you want it, it's down there.

IRWIN (punching the air):
Paydirt.

BOURELL:
Yeah - one big parallel-world free-for-all. Think we'll get medals back in the Meg?

IRWIN:
Let's find out... Get the mek collecting samples and we can head home.

Si,

That doesnt sound like judges to me. It is so clich?.

Yeah - one big parallel-world free-for-all

Eh???

Corny.

If that is good dialogue, then I'll stick to my more articulate prose, thanks all the same.

scojo


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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #19 on: 12 June, 2002, 01:07:33 AM »
I understand what your trying to do informalising the speach but there is a diifference between this and making them sound like they've just learnt English. Lets take the example given:JUDGE If you decide to go down the formal rout, I disagree but it's a reasonable choice, then try to listen to people who talk formally, real Judges making decisions, people citing law etc. They manage to get it to roll much more smoothly.

Jimbob,

Si is the worst critic - he just reads the first bit and comments. Other characters speak less informally in my screenplay. Okay they might not be so "hey man howzit hanging" as some writers, but I believe in reasonably articulate dialogue.

Look at some recent Wagner Sin City dialogue:

Prog 1294.

Danser
You will tell no one of my presence here.

Eh?

Who speaks like that?

It should be:
You won't tell anyone I'm here.

Wagner writes formally all the time!

And he's been writing comics for 25 years!

I like his style. Not natural perhaps but I like it! I don't try to copy that style. Just write my own way but I try to avoid clich? dialogue.

scojo











JimBob

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #20 on: 12 June, 2002, 01:11:31 AM »
 I've read a chunk of the screenplay and I think the Brit Citters have much better dialogue, I also think it's shaping up OK as a whole. I do however agree you should read your stuff outloud or better yet get some one else top read it aloud, then you can iron out some of your problems.

Oh and it wasn't a patch on my fiends script. ; ]

Thread Zero

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #21 on: 12 June, 2002, 01:25:16 AM »
I've read a chunk of the screenplay and I think the Brit Citters have much better dialogue, I also think it's shaping up OK as a whole. I do however agree you should read your stuff outloud or better yet get some one else top read it aloud, then you can iron out some of your problems.

Oh and it wasn't a patch on my fiends script. ; ]


You see what I'm trying to do?

If the judges speak like the cits there is no distinction. The cits are dumb in the main so why have the judges speak like that?

As you have seen, the brit cits speak differently.

Just for the record, all the scenes with cits (except the serious scenes involving Death killing them!) are meant to be jokey.

When a character says....
"Oh how thrilling!"

...when she see Judge Dredd, she isn't meant to be saying it in a posh, stiff way. It's meant to be exaggeration. A piss take.

All the scenes involving the judges are foraml. Even the slighty jokey dialogue between the judges in section 6! That's the joke you see. They say things which are absurd but in a formal manner.

Of course later on in the story the judges are dead serious all the time, so that's why they speak formal. I mean if Hershey were flippant and said hey man speak all the time- would you think she is chief judge?

I don't think so.

scojo  


Jim_Campbell

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #22 on: 12 June, 2002, 01:59:20 AM »
"Danser
You will tell no one of my presence here.

Eh?

Who speaks like that? "

Perhaps a character for whom English is not their first language, hmm? A character raised in the radioactive wastes of Russia ...?

A character who is addressing someone dosed full of obedience serum, a character aware that a poorly phrased command might leave a loophole in their instructions and thus allow them to be betrayed?

Cheers

Jim
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Tex Hex

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #23 on: 12 June, 2002, 04:46:12 PM »
To be fair, I think every script thats EVER been made into a film has been altered at some stage - by directors or even the actors themselves - to make the lines more acceptable, or more in keeping with the characters.
Basically I think its going a bit overboard to CONSTANTLY go on about the dialogue!

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #24 on: 12 June, 2002, 05:46:42 PM »
Hexen,

I agree 100 percent. It's been known for A list Hollywood actors to change dialogue to suit their screen persona.

But sometimes too many cooks spoil the broth.

I don't want to open old wounds (eek!) but I felt some people went on too much about the dialogue in my Dredd Reckoning script, rather than commenting on the actual story.

I think only two people mentioned the story!

At the end of the day it's my interpretation of Dredd and his world. Sure, there are going to be times when my Dredd doesn't speak like Wagner's. I'm not John!

Maybe some of the dialogue is formal but I kind of imagine the Dredd films to be serious sci fi. I know Dredd is a dark comedy in many respects, but I want people to believe judges rule a city. So they have to speak with a certain amount of authority. Gravitas baby!

At the end of the day I just don't want my scripts to be no brainers!

This is Judge Dredd after all.

If you dumb down the script too much it will probably end up naff!

scojo
 

Generally Contrary

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #25 on: 13 June, 2002, 02:26:11 AM »
The argument that runs 'Wagner writes like this, so it will do for a film script' is nonsense.  There is an immense gulf between dialogue that is intended to be spoken (and acted), as in a film script, and dialogue that is meant to be read.  A comic script is even further removed from this, with the speech pared down to a minimal in many cases.  What sounds fine in a comic sounds like crap on screen.  Just ask Frank Miller with his god-awful Robocop script.

That's not to say that I agree with Si, I do think that his judges sound too informal.  But yours do sound like they are reading rather than speaking.

Andy B.

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #26 on: 13 June, 2002, 03:22:02 AM »
Aj hi!

Haven't seen you here before.

I think you might be right about comic writing being different to movie writing.

As for my dialogue, it's not all like the first scene of my script.

Try the scene when the judges first encounter Death.

I dont think that dialogue is formal or makes them sound like they are reading.

Every scene in a script is different. I think it's best to read the entire script before one says my dialogue is too stiff!

scojo




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Re: SSsss Judge Death is here! My ...
« Reply #27 on: 13 June, 2002, 09:53:01 PM »
Won't mention it here anymore, but if anyone has read my Possession screenplay (all of it!) and would like to email me a little review, please do.

A few lines that's all.

Love to get some feedback.

I promise I will listen and not be rude.

All constructive criticism is welcome.

My email address is on the site.

Bye.

scojo

rius

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #28 on: 13 June, 2002, 11:44:30 PM »
Si, I thought your dialogue was spot on: much more natural.

You should take up writing scripts for a living... oh, you have...

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Re: Fan Input
« Reply #29 on: 14 June, 2002, 01:09:32 AM »
Si, I thought your dialogue was spot on: much more natural.

You should take up writing scripts for a living... oh, you have...

Nahh his dialogue was excrement.
Or as Si would say:

Steaming shit!

scojo