The Political Thread

[Funt Solo]

It's never too early to start subjugating your people - the Russian regime is arresting primary school children for protesting the invasion of Ukraine.

(I shouldn't be surprised - after all, they're bombing civilians of all ages.)

[The Mind of Wolfie Smith]

there are precious few feeble straws to grasp at in this endofdays evil in central europe.
but to witness the character and unreally articulate bravery of one extraordinary man shaming even the very worst of us into ethics and volte faces is really something. is really something incredible.

even viktor orban. even fifa.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Even for the Express, that's quite the story. Or non-story, I guess.

"a lack of democracy"

So they fled to Russia, a country known for its amazing democracy! There must be something else to this story, surely?

"and forced immunisation"

Ah. There it is.

Also, and at the risk of giving even more oxygen to a non-story about some random bloke with mental issues, 'It's morally corrupt and people don't about anything like punctuality ...anymore.'

A lack of punctuality.  In Germany.   The buses in the town where I spent my student summers drove slowly so as to be at the stop at precisely the right time. 

He should try organising a party here in Ireland.

[The Legendary Shark]

(I shouldn't be surprised - after all, they're bombing civilians of all ages.)

Governments (including ours) do this all the time. It's wrong no matter which government is doing it.

It also seems that, in allegedly arresting children, Russia is taking a leaf out of the United States' book. It's wrong no matter which government is doing it.

[Funt Solo]

(I shouldn't be surprised - after all, they're bombing civilians of all ages.)

Governments (including ours) do this all the time. It's wrong no matter which government is doing it.

It also seems that, in allegedly arresting children, Russia is taking a leaf out of the United States' book. It's wrong no matter which government is doing it.

I'm not sure why you quoted me there - it's not as if I suggested it would be right if another government did the same, because I didn't. As it is, Russia is the government arresting their own civilians for telling the truth and bombing Ukrainian civilians (on a massive scale) right now, so that's the government I'm focused on right now.

So, yeah, not sure why you're waving your hands and pointing at "other governments" in a vague way. (Also, you linked to an article that's behind a pay wall, so it's relevance, or lack thereof, remains a mystery.)

[The Legendary Shark]

Not a dig at you, Funt.

It's long been my position that governments are nothing more than bands of criminals, all of them. They all lie, they all cheat, they all steal, they all treat their citizens like cattle, they're all thugs at heart. I am not defending any of them but pointing out their similarities.

That article from USA Today isn't paywalled for me (maybe due to using a vpn), but maybe 12ft Ladder will remove it for you.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I think it's good you keep reminding us that you don't like government's Shark. We might forget otherwise.

[The Legendary Shark]

My thoughts exactly :-D

[Funt Solo]

It's an incredibly reductive argument, though, and is a variation of "they're all as bad as each other". Effectively, it's meaningless - it gets us absolutely nowhere.

Under the argument of "all members of all governments are [evil]", there's no difference between, say, Putin (who has his agents place nerve agents in the underpants of his political enemies and launches missiles at civilians) and, say, Nicola Sturgeon, who ... doesn't.

So - reductive, meaningless and just plain wrong. Your broad brush paints over all the details, Shark, and all we're left with is:

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't accept that all members of all governments are evil, but the whole is not the same as the sum of its parts. The whole is evil, because the good guys (for want of a better term) contained therein can do nothing to change things no matter how sincere they are or how hard they try.

The ultimate expression of any government argument will always be the barrel of a gun, until we take that privilege away from them.

[Funt Solo]

It's long been my position that governments are nothing more than bands of criminals, all of them. They all lie, they all cheat, they all steal, they all treat their citizens like cattle, they're all thugs at heart.

I don't accept that all members of all governments are evil...

I imagine if you go to a football match, you change scarves half way through.

[The Mind of Wolfie Smith]

it seems to me that covid proved you wrong. not always, but in general, leaders who wear empathy as part of their political creed have, by and large, steered their people through the pandemic with an almost infinitely smaller hit. others - you know who they are - who believe more in an expendable surplus population ... haven't.

of course they're not all the same. i find it difficult, in similar tragic and traumatic circumstances, to imagine cameron doing a zelenskyy, for example.

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't like football, but I imagine that all the players are not the same, and that a football team is not much like a government except in that the players are all in it for personal motives and not necessarily because they love the team above all else. You seem to have taken my view that "all governments are evil" means that "all members of all governments are evil," maybe because that interpretation is easier to argue against. As I said, the whole is not the same as the sum of its parts.

I'm not allowed to discuss alternate views of the pandemic here, unfortunately, due to things like "anti-science." Which I always thought was religion, not science that highlights unpolitic results (of which there is a great deal) or does what science is supposed to do - ask questions and discuss results. But it seems that governments have turned science into a religion, and far be it from me to encourage blasphemy...

I wonder if one could imagine Zelensky doing a Blair?

[milstar]

What is ludicrous it seems propaganda machinery is firing on all engines, tough to believe what is what. Like allegedly (or not), a Russian projectile fell on an Israel memorial centre. True story. Then it fell on some 300 meters farther. True story.

But nobody to mention that US (and probably UK) faces shortage of lock n load ready people to serve in times of conflict (never said which though).

Saying Putin is bad however would sound hypocritical at least from our side and I am not ashamed stressing that our leaders are svim and NATO is bully. Maybe we should clean up our own yard first.

[The Legendary Shark]

The first casualty of war and all that.