The Political Thread

[Funt Solo]

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. That's the Google search definition: you can broaden it out by searching other dictionaries to the point where it includes school bullying.

I suppose you could argue it either way for the recent British tragedy - was he pursuing political aims? Or just going on a pre-suicide murder spree (while also believing a loose ideology)?

Directed violence against women is abhorrent (of course), but his targets seemed to be random in that regard.

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I do think more could be done by social media companies (or laws controlling them) to tackle misinformation - there are cult-like online movements for all sorts of weird, harmful beliefs: whether it be pro-suicide messaging, self-harm romanticizing, the dark depths of incel doctrine, anti-vaxx or whatever.

The way social media is set up to form bubbles of belief drives their marketing policies and helps them make money from ad revenue. They're not in the business of helping people. The same dumb algorithms that offer me more shoes if I buy shoes, offers people more bullshit if they buy bullshit. If you ever watch a Jordan "I Use Big Words and Complex Sentence Structures to Pretend I'm Not a Misogynist" Peterson video, the YouTube algorithm will try to feed you more. If you happen to be easily swayed by bullshit you'll come out the other end a trans-phobic misogynist pseudo-intellectual who thinks it's reasonable to attack minority groups in order to save the subjugated white male race from extinction by an out of control, effete, liberal junta.

Be careful out there!

[The Legendary Shark]

It seems that anyone the government doesn't like, or anyone who doesn't like the government (*hi there!*) is a terrorist these days. I think it would be much simpler to call any human who harms another a criminal.

Oh. Right. Soldiers, cops, etc. Sorry. How silly of me...

[Hawkmumbler]

I suppose you could argue it either way for the recent British tragedy - was he pursuing political aims? Or just going on a pre-suicide murder spree (while also believing a loose ideology)?

Certainly of the multiple instances of incel mass murder this one appears the most directionless of lacking in apparent agency, but when taking into account the 2014 California mass shooting and the 2018 Toronto vehicular rampage (I refuse to name these incidents after their perpetrators) who where both cited by the Plymouth shooter as influences in video logs, both of whom left very public, and very explicit manifestos on the nature of their intentions* this cult absolutely fits the definition of a terror cell. Albeit it an extremely scattered, disorganized, and completely disconnected one. It's worth noting that the incel movement as it currently stand has only been a phenomena of the last decade, which really draws into my concerns what they could be capable of in future as the death count associated with this hive of troglodytes already numbers in the upper double digits.

*Thats before we consider the innumerable mysoginistic outlets these cretins utilize to network.

[milstar]

I don't see how incels can be connected to the act of terrorism, when terrorism is a pretty much an individual thing. Whether on a macro or micro scale. You can be successfully married and still be pissed off on your government. By that logic, all terrorist attacks committed in Europe must be done because of "muh" incelism, when the matter is something else.

I remember when movie Joker came out and some people ridiculously stated it'll incite incels to do something horrible. But why? And I never heard for any crime related to the movie. But one thing Joker did to me. After the credits rolled, I felt something worst inside me is boiling up that I wanted to be Michael Douglas from Falling Down. I still do not see how the movie can be inspiring to actions of an individual.

[Funt Solo]

...both cited by the Plymouth shooter as influences in video logs...

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. That sways me into agreement that it was terrorism. There's a shared ideology which is being *promoted* through acts of terror. That's terrorism.

[Leigh S]

So to summarise your argumemts. Milstar, it cant be terrorism because all terrorism is just someone hitting out for personal reasons, and all this guy did was hit out for personal reasons?

And to all those people saying "Joker" incited people to violence, the only effect it had on you was making you want to act like Michael Douglas in famous violent rampage film "Falling Down"?


If I ever need someone to defend me on Death Row, remind me not to call you!

I don't see how incels can be connected to the act of terrorism, when terrorism is a pretty much an individual thing. Whether on a macro or micro scale. You can be successfully married and still be pissed off on your government. By that logic, all terrorist attacks committed in Europe must be done because of "muh" incelism, when the matter is something else.

I remember when movie Joker came out and some people ridiculously stated it'll incite incels to do something horrible. But why? And I never heard for any crime related to the movie. But one thing Joker did to me. After the credits rolled, I felt something worst inside me is boiling up that I wanted to be Michael Douglas from Falling Down. I still do not see how the movie can be inspiring to actions of an individual.

[milstar]

So to summarise your argumemts. Milstar, it cant be terrorism because all terrorism is just someone hitting out for personal reasons, and all this guy did was hit out for personal reasons?

And to all those people saying "Joker" incited people to violence, the only effect it had on you was making you want to act like Michael Douglas in famous violent rampage film "Falling Down"?


If I ever need someone to defend me on Death Row, remind me not to call you!

What actually is your argument? Furthermore, I think you severely misunderstood what I wrote.

And who needs a defense from the Death Row? Nor I think we have Death Row, at least in UK.

[sheridan]

So to summarise your argumemts. Milstar, it cant be terrorism because all terrorism is just someone hitting out for personal reasons, and all this guy did was hit out for personal reasons?

And to all those people saying "Joker" incited people to violence, the only effect it had on you was making you want to act like Michael Douglas in famous violent rampage film "Falling Down"?

If I ever need someone to defend me on Death Row, remind me not to call you!

What actually is your argument? Furthermore, I think you severely misunderstood what I wrote.

And who needs a defense from the Death Row? Nor I think we have Death Row, at least in UK.

For the record, what I took from what you wrote was that you saw a film and upon leaving the cinema you were so full of rage that you wanted to go out on a murderous rampage.  What other reading could possibly have been taken from what you said up-thread?

[The Legendary Shark]

I took it to mean that feeling like going on a murderous rampage is not terrorism but actually going on a murderous rampage is.

[Hawkmumbler]

I rarely 'reveal' posts of folks I've blocked but I was curious and good lord. Where to begin?

[milstar]

For the record, what I took from what you wrote was that you saw a film and upon leaving the cinema you were so full of rage that you wanted to go out on a murderous rampage.  What other reading could possibly have been taken from what you said up-thread?

No, I never felt enraged or anything. I felt that my propensity for violence has awoken and I am actually, very pacifist person. I didn't feel like I was going to bash a random bloke's skull.  Nor I thought about a murder.

Either way, each act of terrorism is rooted in personal reasons. Ofcourse it is, but all differ. As a matter of fact, every act that endangers the lives of people is basically a terrorism; not to be confused with the cold-blooded murder.

[Jim_Campbell]

As a matter of fact, every act that endangers the lives of people is basically a terrorism

No, it's not. Terrorism, by definition is violence applied in the service of a political agenda. It has to be premeditated, serve a cause, and its intended effect is to influence others. You can't accidentally commit a terrorist act.

[Hawkmumbler]

As a matter of fact, every act that endangers the lives of people is basically a terrorism

No, it's not. Terrorism, by definition is violence applied in the service of a political agenda. It has to be premeditated, serve a cause, and its intended effect is to influence others. You can't accidentally commit a terrorist act.

I believe milstar is citing FOUR LIONS as a source. His case, as they say, rests. Precariously.

[milstar]

As a matter of fact, every act that endangers the lives of people is basically a terrorism

No, it's not. Terrorism, by definition is violence applied in the service of a political agenda. It has to be premeditated, serve a cause, and its intended effect is to influence others. You can't accidentally commit a terrorist act.

No one ever does. A bloke who comes gunning down a slew of people didn't think of that five minutes ago. And why always it needs to serve for political (or religious) purposes?

As a matter of fact, every act that endangers the lives of people is basically a terrorism

No, it's not. Terrorism, by definition is violence applied in the service of a political agenda. It has to be premeditated, serve a cause, and its intended effect is to influence others. You can't accidentally commit a terrorist act.

I believe milstar is citing FOUR LIONS as a source. His case, as they say, rests. Precariously.

Never seen Four Lions.

But this is what FBI has to say about it:

International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

From:
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

[Leigh S]

Th Definition of Domestic Terrorism is pretty good fit IMO

His Social Media presence shows that he aligned himself with a particualr group, showed sympathy for other mass shooters and their "agenda", even if that is a social one more than a religious one - to be honest, it makes more sense to me that someone might be upset at feeling ostracized from partaking in "life" than they might someone drawing pictures of their Imaginery friends.  Not t condine the one over the other, but the principles seem in the same ball park.

I'm not sure if you are saying this guy didnt think he was going to shoot someine until 5 minutes before he did it?  If so, thats a pretty lucky coincidence he had a gun licence, guns and was a keen follower and supporter of other nutjobs who went on a shooting spree?