The Political Thread

[JayzusB.Christ]

Thanks, all, some interesting insights there. (Hope that doesn't sound sarcastic; it's not.)

Tankie; I'm guessing you're a Tory voter - any chance you could explain why?  I do understand if you don't want to go into it; just wondering.

[Old Tankie]

Just about to have tea Jayzus, I will let you know later!

[Dark Jimbo]

I'm fairly right wing meself - (one of several reasons that I rarely contribute to this thread, feeling fairly at odds with the prevailing tone) - and I have to say it's always hugely interesting, in any context, seeing left-wingers try to comprehend why anyone would vote Conservatives or similar. Of course it's never as simple as 'that's what they happen to think is best for the country' or the like but 'indoctrination, selfishess, violent racism, blind stupidity, media bamboozling, etc'. And for whatever reason it's a fairly one-way thing - as a right-winger I can see perfectly well why someone would vote Labour, Lib-Dem, etc, even if I don't happen to agree with the policies. But flip that back the other way and voting for the right just seems utterly inexplicable to the left.

I have no interesting conclusions to draw from this, just always fascinated me is all!

[radiator]

Clearly, most people vote on the basis of barely understood information.

There's also a herd mentality. I remember a few years ago a friend of my girlfriend was blathering on on facebook about how she was going to vote for the BNP. When my girlfriend, who is mixed-race, challenged this, it very quickly transpired that she didn't truly understand what the BNP stood for and was just very impressionable and had been influenced by her friends and family.

A combination of ill informed arseholes who read the Fail and the Sun and believe the utter shit fed to them there because it confirms their racism and their many other prejudices. That along with an I'm-alright-jack mentality and a, baffling to me, illusion that some working or middle class people have that somehow if they vote Conservative then, because they are all public school millionaires, I will somehow be as rich as them (I suspect the same mentality that makes shit poor Americans vote Republican).
Combine that with younger people not being inclined to vote, and older people being more incline to vote for vicious Right Wing parties, then you have the perfect storm.

I always just assume its because people generally get more right wing (ie less idealistic and more selfish and set in their ways) as they get older, and older people tend to vote more than young people. I think that right wingers tend to think of themselves as realists, but in a lot of ways they are just as naive as lefties.

I will never understand the right wing mentality, nor why people resent paying taxes so much. I mean, how do these people think things like infrastructure gets paid for? We live in a society. America's situation is especially bonkers. The concept that you as an individual might be contributing slightly over the odds and that your tax dollars might be helping others is an outrage to most folks here.

As I see it, an example of the direct result of this kind of blinkered world view is the sheer number of homeless people here. Every single city I've visited here seems to have a vast subculture of drifters and hobos, ten times more than you'd see in a city like London. Mentally ill people and drug addicts walk down the streets screaming and miniature tent cities spring up mere blocks from luxury boutiques. A dishevelled drifter pushing a shopping trolley containing all their worldly possessions is as common a sight as someone walking a dog. And everyone turns a blind eye and genuinely seem to believe that people are living like this through choice, and not because there's a fundamental lack of support and welfare.

And my worry is that Britain will be exactly the same in a few years time. 

[radiator]

I'm fairly right wing meself - (one of several reasons that I rarely contribute to this thread, feeling fairly at odds with the prevailing tone) - and I have to say it's always hugely interesting, in any context, seeing left-wingers try to comprehend why anyone would vote Conservatives or similar. Of course it's never as simple as 'that's what they happen to think is best for the country' or the like but 'indoctrination, selfishess, violent racism, blind stupidity, media bamboozling, etc'. And for whatever reason it's a fairly one-way thing - as a right-winger I can see perfectly well why someone would vote Labour, Lib-Dem, etc, even if I don't happen to agree with the policies. But flip that back the other way and voting for the right just seems utterly inexplicable to the left.

I have no interesting conclusions to draw from this, just always fascinated me is all!

Genuinely curious Jimbo, do you think the NHS is a bad thing that should be dismantled?

[Old Tankie]

Why would he think that?

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Oh no, just heard on the news, Corbyn is going to sing the National Anthem from now on. Why would he change his stance so soon after standing up for his beliefs.
Let's hope the ITV news have got this wrong.

[TordelBack]

Without putting words in anyone's mouth, I'd assume that (following a personal analysis of the options) favouring the right-wing end of the political spectrum essentially means believing that a rising tide lifts all boats; that a society that encourages and rewards personal effort and success is itself enriched as a whole; that applying a meritocratic business-led approach to the supply of and receipt of public services results in efficencies and incentives; that valuing personal freedom and individual responsibility over collective dependence on the state is empowering for all; and that a society/economy that operates on these principles is better for all its members.

What I find confusing us how anyone can square these undoubted  positives with the hateful rhetoric and selfish avaricious behaviour that seems to be the actual results of right-wing government.

[Old Tankie]

Yes, CF, I heard that on the Daily Politics program, surely it can't be true.

[Dark Jimbo]

No, of course not - quite the reverse. I didn't vote Consv. in the General Election, and the NHS was actually one of the big sticking points as to why.

[radiator]

What I find confusing us how anyone can square these undoubted  positives with the hateful rhetoric and selfish avaricious behaviour that seems to be the actual results of right-wing government.

Nailed it.

[Old Tankie]

I've just read TB's post and have to say he's pretty much hit the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned, apart from the last sentence!  So no need to reply to Jayzus.

[ZenArcade]

Wasn't it loaded that featured those 2 disastrous ads for the.prog in the late 90's? Z

[Frank]

I'm fairly right wing meself - (one of several reasons that I rarely contribute to this thread, feeling fairly at odds with the prevailing tone) ... I can see perfectly well why someone would vote Labour, Lib-Dem, etc, even if I don't happen to agree with the policies. But flip that back the other way and voting for the right just seems utterly inexplicable to the left.

Genuinely curious Jimbo, do you think the NHS is a bad thing that should be dismantled?

You're not going to look back on that as your finest moment on this board, Tom. If Jim was looking for someone to prove his point, your reply would be perfect.

I hope Corbyn can reframe the terms of the debate in UK politics, but as far as winning 2020 is concerned Labour die hards have  performed the equivalent of buying a Top Gear CD from a service station and ordering corduroy slacks with an adjustable waist band. It feels comfortable to be true to yourself, but it also means you've abandoned all attempts to appeal to anyone else*.

In five years time, Corbyn loyalists are going to be singing the same refrain as The 45 following the independence referendum - blaming the media and accusing everyone who didn't fancy the deal the deal that was on offer of some kind of betrayal.


* given how useless the other candidates were, I'd have opted for Corbyn too

[The Legendary Shark]

I think that when a "government" of any stripe is driven by unrealistic expectations of paying back an ever-increasing and unpayable (and illusory) debt in order to keep the spectre of catastrophic "economic collapse" at bay, they can't help but take the route of avarice and general beastliness.
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Conservative, Labour, Lib-Dem, SNP, UKIP - it makes no difference. The First Priority of them all is getting your wealth, either out of your pockets, your communities or your services, and giving it to the banks.
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I can see a time coming when they'll try to outlaw cash and force us into a cashless economy where everyone has to pay the banks to look after their "money" and use their cards. A 0.5% interest rate rise and something like this becomes almost inevitable; just like the gold confiscations in 1933 USA.
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It's not really the politician's fault; they're simply doing as they're told based on faulty information.