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General Chat => Games => Topic started by: Funt Solo on 19 October, 2021, 02:40:32 AM

Title: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 19 October, 2021, 02:40:32 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 17 October, 2021, 10:50:12 PM
I remember on my trip to Thailand, so many years ago now, I started noticing some place names rang a bell.  Chiang Mai. Fang.  It was Sukumvit that brought it back - Ian Livingstone had used them for Deathtrap Dungeon (the 80s role-playing book, like you didn't know).

It's just come back to me now after listening to the brilliant Hypnogoria podcast about said book.  And then I found this. http://officialfightingfantasy.blogspot.com/2017/05/who-wants-to-go-for-walk.html (http://officialfightingfantasy.blogspot.com/2017/05/who-wants-to-go-for-walk.html)  He didn't even bother to change the names.  Still a great book though.

Quote from: sheridan on 18 October, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Deathtrap Dungeon - my first Fighting Fantasy book!  My fave is the Shamutanti Hills, closely followed by City of Thieves and a few of the other early books.

My first Fighting Fantasy book was The Warlock of Firetop Mountain - which I got from the school library. That being the first one, I started collecting, but never had Book 1 in my collection. Deathtrap Dungeon is a favorite, and when I ditched half my nerd clobber when emigrating, that was one of the few I had to keep.

There's a guy does brief video reviews of the books, and he's wonderfully dry-witted. At the beginning of Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks Review Part 3 - Books 21 to 30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lIl7c99FJE), he says "I'm sorta stuck wiv this lot now, I've gotta do the lot!"
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Colin YNWA on 19 October, 2021, 06:26:52 AM
I bought the boy a load of these recently after he liked Warlock when I played it on the Switch (really good adaptation by the way). He played a couple but then burnt out on them. I'm hoping he returns to them then in a year or two. I was well tempted to give them a go again myself.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 19 October, 2021, 09:06:03 AM
I spent most of my pocket money on these. I was addicted as a kid. Trial of Champions was the last one I bought, at which point FF had successfully gateway'd me into D&D, and my money starting going into TSR's pocket instead. It's all still in the metaphorical loft somewhere.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2021, 09:33:03 AM
I used to spend all my pocket money on these too. At some point over the years I lost all of them bar Appointment with F.E.A.R - I think my brother inherited and disposed of them when I went to uni.
During the pandemic I picked up a bunch of old ones off ebay and started replaying them. Some of them are SO hard but they're really good. I'm basically addicted to them now. I met Ian Livingstone at an event this year and was totally fanboyish.

Deathtrap Dungeon is my favourite but I really love Trial of Champions and Forest of Doom, which was my first one ever. On the non-FF front I love the Way of the Tiger series.

Anyone up for a forum playthrough of one maybe? See how far we all get individually?

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 19 October, 2021, 09:41:13 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2021, 09:33:03 AM
Anyone up for a forum playthrough of one maybe? See how far we all get individually?
Great idea!! I'll see if I can dig mine out.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 19 October, 2021, 10:33:24 AM
Quote from: wedgeski on 19 October, 2021, 09:41:13 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2021, 09:33:03 AM
Anyone up for a forum playthrough of one maybe? See how far we all get individually?
Great idea!! I'll see if I can dig mine out.

Sounds good - I know where all mine are.  Which book were you thinking of?  Start with Warlock?  I have most of them, but haven't played through the later ones.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 19 October, 2021, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 19 October, 2021, 10:33:24 AM
Quote from: wedgeski on 19 October, 2021, 09:41:13 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2021, 09:33:03 AM
Anyone up for a forum playthrough of one maybe? See how far we all get individually?
Great idea!! I'll see if I can dig mine out.

Sounds good - I know where all mine are.  Which book were you thinking of?  Start with Warlock?  I have most of them, but haven't played through the later ones.
Sounds logical. :) I'll post here when I've dug them out.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2021, 10:51:49 AM
I hadn't thought that far ahead but I think whatever the most people who are interested can get their hands on! Warlocks got a massive maze in the middle which is annoying but it's a good one to start!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sintec on 19 October, 2021, 04:15:04 PM
I got given a copy of Warlock by my gran when I was 7 or 8 I think. Was the start of a path that led to D&D then Vampire: The Masqurade then goth clubs lol.

Sold most of my to buy RPG books and/or beer as I got older. Found a set of reprints of the first 8 in a charity shop a while back and bought them for old times sake. Think I played through the first 2 or 3 and then got distracted.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: The Bissler on 19 October, 2021, 04:25:39 PM
I have a lot of love for these as well! Forest of Doom was one of my favourites and was one I never cracked until I played the Tinman Games version a few years back (would highly recommend btw, they're very faithful and nicely realised adaptations of the books). The Fighting Fantasy series are probably the closest I came to roleplaying until I spotted GW's Judge Dredd: The Roleplaying Game in '87. Once I played that, I got the RPG and then tabletop gaming bug...and have never looked back!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 19 October, 2021, 10:35:17 PM
Quote from: sintec on 19 October, 2021, 04:15:04 PM
I got given a copy of Warlock by my gran when I was 7 or 8 I think. Was the start of a path that led to D&D then Vampire: The Masqurade then goth clubs lol.

Oo - which goth clubs?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 20 October, 2021, 03:57:38 AM
Some of my favorites:

1. The Warlock of Firetop Mountain - I loved this one so much that I converted it to D&D mostly so that I could map out the exact floor-plan. Realizing that the Warlock has no easy way out that didn't involve wandering through a bunch of madly dangerous rooms, I gave him a back door, high up in the mountain, which was how he brought the monsters in. It was like a kind of zoo-arena, where he'd train them up before placement in the larger dungeon.

5. City of Thieves - the most dangerous shopping expedition in the world felt like you were in a real place.

6. Deathtrap Dungeon - having it be a competition added some amazing tension, as you were always wondering where your competitors had gotten to.

11. Talisman of Death - had such a rich world to explore, which was fully realized in standalone series Way of the Tiger.

13. Freeway Fighter - way better than Beyond Thunderdome is this Car Wars style post-apocalyptic adventure.

22. Robot Commando - every time you find a new mech you get an interesting decision, weighing up the pros and cons.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: abelardsnazz on 20 October, 2021, 08:09:22 AM
Away from FF, the late Joe Dever granted permission for his books to be published free online, so if you feel like taking Lone Wolf through his paces, it's all at projectaon.org.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sintec on 20 October, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 19 October, 2021, 10:35:17 PM
Quote from: sintec on 19 October, 2021, 04:15:04 PM
I got given a copy of Warlock by my gran when I was 7 or 8 I think. Was the start of a path that led to D&D then Vampire: The Masqurade then goth clubs lol.

Oo - which goth clubs?

Mostly around Norwich and Ipswich area initially (late 90s) so things like Wraith and Chains On Velvet. Then added fairly regular trips down to Slimelight in Islington and annual excursions up to Bradford for Infest.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 October, 2021, 09:17:38 AM
I didn't know that about Joe Dever, I'll be all over those! Really enjoyed Lone Wolf at the time. I do have snazzy hardback versions of three of his Freeway Warrior books, although I've yet to replay them...

I've got a couple of the Duelmaster sets as well - these are essentially a set of two 'PvP' gamebooks where two players read at once and are competing against each other. Typically when you reach the end of a paragraph you're given a command to wait until the other player hits a wait command and then you both proceed. Actions give you keywords that effect what the other player encounters, with players prompted to ask the other if they have keyword in various locations, and then if they do they'll move to a different paragraph describing a monsters body or an empty chest and so on. You win if the book kills the other player, or you can meet and fight each other to the death. They're great.

If a few of us guys do want to do read through of one (Warlock?) then i've dug my books out ready.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 October, 2021, 09:18:20 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 20 October, 2021, 03:57:38 AM
22. Robot Commando - every time you find a new mech you get an interesting decision, weighing up the pros and cons.

This book RULES.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 20 October, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 20 October, 2021, 09:17:38 AM
've got a couple of the Duelmaster sets as well - these are essentially a set of two 'PvP' gamebooks where two players read at once and are competing against each other. Typically when you reach the end of a paragraph you're given a command to wait until the other player hits a wait command and then you both proceed. Actions give you keywords that effect what the other player encounters, with players prompted to ask the other if they have keyword in various locations, and then if they do they'll move to a different paragraph describing a monsters body or an empty chest and so on. You win if the book kills the other player, or you can meet and fight each other to the death. They're great.
FF also did one of those (that I know of anyway), 'Clash of the Princes'. I remember buying it in Smiths and then haring to my mate's house to play it immediately. It was exactly the same rush as buying a new 10 game for my Commodore. :)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 20 October, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: sintec on 20 October, 2021, 09:11:05 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 19 October, 2021, 10:35:17 PM
Quote from: sintec on 19 October, 2021, 04:15:04 PM
I got given a copy of Warlock by my gran when I was 7 or 8 I think. Was the start of a path that led to D&D then Vampire: The Masqurade then goth clubs lol.

Oo - which goth clubs?

Mostly around Norwich and Ipswich area initially (late 90s) so things like Wraith and Chains On Velvet. Then added fairly regular trips down to Slimelight in Islington and annual excursions up to Bradford for Infest.


Cool - I went to Chains on Velvet the one time (around this time of year, back in 1999 I think) but mainly went to Death by Misadventure (the one in Ipswich) and Bury'd Alive (in Bury St Edmunds).  Also went to whatever the Colchester night was called - it went through a few name changes and was run by Martin, who also ran DbM.  Like you I also went down to Slimes and Infest (though mostly Whitby).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sintec on 20 October, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
Death by Misadventure - that was the name of the Ipswich night. It had been lost in a fog of clove cigarettes and snakebite and black. Don't think we ever got down to Colchester

I grew up near Bury St Edmunds... we may have bumped into each other some time back around then it's not exactly a big place. Spent most of my underage drinking years at The Lucky Break and The Grapes. Left for "the big city" (Norwich lol) around 99. Ended up DJing at Chains a few years later and did that for most of the 2000s.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 20 October, 2021, 04:09:37 PM
Quote from: sintec on 20 October, 2021, 12:32:18 PM
Death by Misadventure - that was the name of the Ipswich night. It had been lost in a fog of clove cigarettes and snakebite and black. Don't think we ever got down to Colchester

I grew up near Bury St Edmunds... we may have bumped into each other some time back around then it's not exactly a big place. Spent most of my underage drinking years at The Lucky Break and The Grapes. Left for "the big city" (Norwich lol) around 99. Ended up DJing at Chains a few years later and did that for most of the 2000s.

FB friend request winging your way - though surprised we only have 5 friends in common (1 2000AD, 4 Goth-types).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 20 October, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
FF#73 - Rise of the Gothlords
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 20 October, 2021, 11:28:00 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 20 October, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
FF#73 - Rise of the Gothlords


Mope of the Gothlords!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 October, 2021, 09:50:51 AM
Quote from: wedgeski on 20 October, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
It was exactly the same rush as buying a new 10 game for my Commodore. :)

This is such a retro statement, I know exactly what you mean.

In the spirit of contributing to the rest of the thread, I have never been to a goth club in Bury St. Edmunds.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: I, Cosh on 22 October, 2021, 12:38:53 AM
This thread inspired me to buy Citadel of Chaos this afternoon. They didn't have any of the others.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 October, 2021, 01:47:31 AM
I like Citadel of Chaos well enough - the original cover was a bit pants compared to the first one, but the monsters you meet are well freaky. There was a sense of real threat about entering the Citadel.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: abelardsnazz on 22 October, 2021, 08:49:41 AM
I always found Citadel much tougher than Warlock - I could never seem to find a way past the Ganjees.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 October, 2021, 10:09:26 AM
I hate those bloody Ganjees.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: NapalmKev on 24 October, 2021, 08:52:53 AM
I still own  lot of FF books, probably around 70% (without checking) of the original run and a couple of the later ones.

One of my faves was Armies of Death which carries on directly from Trial of Champions and has you literally raising an army to fight some random evil that I cannot remember. Crypt of the Sorcerer is another one that really stuck with me. Great book.

I'm going to single out Scorpion Swamp as the utter piece of crap that it is. It's far to vague in it's setting to keep my interest and the paragraph's aren't very descriptive.

I was a never a big fan of the Lone Wolf books but Way of the Tiger is pure gold. Assassin (book 2) is the best in the series, all other viewpoints are to be considered at the very least misguided and ill-informed or at the most, just plain old wrong.

Cheers
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 24 October, 2021, 12:00:18 PM
I have emerged from the uncharted deeps of my storage bin with a slightly cobwebby box of FF books. How do we want to do this? Fixed skill scores and then everyone gets to choose their own potion? Start with Warlock and report on how far you get?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 24 October, 2021, 02:08:14 PM
I had thought I knew where my FF books were but today I've found that I moved them, by the simple process of moving my head about two millimetres found that I'd put 'em all on the bookshelf behind my monitor (so I can see my copy of Warlock without moving).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
I never didn't cheat with my gamebooks, though. Like, if going left killed me, but going right got the secret key that open the wizard's safe - why play through the entire book again just to get to that decision point?

I'm assuming everyone had as many fingers as possible keeping track of the previous set of moves.

Which leads me to stats: did anyone accept a Skill of 7? I mean, it's like going into the dungeon with a rusty sword and a tap water potion. I used to do a halfway house - and only go in with above average dice rolls on the initial stats.

Are there any gamebook purists out there?

---

Lone Wolf #6 - The Kingdoms of Terror - is impossible without cheating (assuming you're on a play-through and not just running it standalone). The starting battles in The Plague Lords of Ruel (#13) have the same problem. Dever trying to maintain balance once he'd gifted us the Sommerswerd in book #2 was something to behold.

---

I like the grand battle game-books, but I've never played Armies of Death (FF #37). Other books with grand battles are Warbringer! (Way of the Tiger #5) and (to an extent) The Dungeons of Torgar (Lone Wolf #10).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 25 October, 2021, 09:10:30 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
Which leads me to stats: did anyone accept a Skill of 7? I mean, it's like going into the dungeon with a rusty sword and a tap water potion. I used to do a halfway house - and only go in with above average dice rolls on the initial stats.
I was very amused to open Warlock and find, in 12-year-old me's handwriting, maximum skill scores pencilled into all the boxes. :)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 October, 2021, 09:47:30 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
Are there any gamebook purists out there?

When I was digging around Fighting Fantasy Reddit's and the like last year I found there were a lot of these people out there who are full of scorn for those who don't fix their stats!
As a kid I just rerolled endlessly until I had at least max skill or stamina... there really is no point having minimum stats, especially in some of the books where there's loads of tough fights.

I've never played Armies of Death and it sounds great. Agree that Scorpion Swamp is pants. Talked to a mate about this in the week and he's given me a really tatty copy of Seas of Blood, which I have never played either. Winner!

Quote from: wedgeski on 24 October, 2021, 12:00:18 PM
I have emerged from the uncharted deeps of my storage bin with a slightly cobwebby box of FF books. How do we want to do this? Fixed skill scores and then everyone gets to choose their own potion? Start with Warlock and report on how far you get?

This sounds like a plan, lets do it! I'll kick off my read this week. Are we maxing skill scores to stop us being killed by random goblins?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 25 October, 2021, 09:54:38 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 25 October, 2021, 09:47:30 AM
This sounds like a plan, lets do it! I'll kick off my read this week. Are we maxing skill scores to stop us being killed by random goblins?
Let's do it! We'll aim for one book a week.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 25 October, 2021, 10:08:30 AM
Cool - I'll defend Scorpion Swamp though - not only did it have one of three missions once you got to your destination, but you could revisit some areas and the setup would be different the second time around!  As an added bonus, it was written by Steve Jackson - but the other one to the Steve Jackson who co-created the series, causing no end of confusion on both sides of the Atlantic (the USA Jackson being the one behind GURPS, Munchkin and the Munchkin Apocalypse: Judge Dredd expansion set a few years back).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 25 October, 2021, 10:09:41 AM
p.s. I'm tempted to pick the average scores - following the D&D standard array concept.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 25 October, 2021, 10:16:51 AM
p.s. found this:

recommended minimum stats (https://fightingfantazine.proboards.com/thread/276/recommended-minimum-stats-book) - small spoilers for some of the books.

Quote from: that-link-aboveSome of these are more exact than others. 'Average' denotes around Skill 9, Stamina 19 etc..


Warlock of Firetop Mountain - Average should be ok, combat not too hard.

Deathtrap Dungeon - Skill 11.

Seas of Blood - You need roughly SKILL 10. The key difficulty is large-scale battles, for any chance at all to win the book you need a minimum CREW STRIKE 11 and CREW STRENGTH 15.
Caverns of the Snow Witch - maximum on everything, but even then probably impossible to complete the final section without cheating.

Citadel of Chaos - It is theoretically possible to complete with any stats. [spoiler]However the Balthus Dire showdown at the end is potentially difficult, depending on how you choose to play it[/spoiler].

Trial of Champions - Maximum on everything. Even then you will probably run out of stamina and die. This book is broken.

Scorpion Swamp - Average stats will allow about the right level of difficulty. [spoiler]Note the 'good' quest is the easiest[/spoiler].

Siege of Sardath - I recommend at least Skill 9 or 10.

Sword of the Samurai - Skill 10

Masks of Mayhem -Skill 10

Dead of Night - Almost any stat roll should be ok. Using the special skills is the key.

Howl of the Werewolf - Any

Stormslayer - Average

City of Thieves - Skill 9

Daggers of Darkness - Average

Creature of Havoc - Average

Sorcery! Series - If you play a wizard you can probably get through on SKILL7.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 28 October, 2021, 10:05:28 PM
Just had a run at Warlock and the vampire killed me. I was doing ok up till that point although I burned my stamina potion early on a poison needle trap.

The art in this book is just lovely.

Anyone else do better?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 28 October, 2021, 10:13:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DUyNNxV.png)

I've been taking this opportunity to map it as a directed graph.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 28 October, 2021, 10:22:43 PM
That's the one! I have mapped it before but didn't use it this time.
I remembered certain stuff like getting the Di Maggio enchantment but not where to go, and so basically wandered about like a lost drunkard until something killed me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 28 October, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
So far my favorite part is throwing some cheese at the portrait and it just laughs at your puny efforts.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 29 October, 2021, 08:54:33 AM
Thats class. I can't even remember what the cheese is for (I know where you get it)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 31 October, 2021, 12:24:49 AM
You use the cheese to distract some rats.

I was surprised, when finishing my map, to find only two insta-death passages - from the Vampire and Ghoul encounters. I assumed there would be more.

I'll paste in a copy of my graph (open in new tab to get it full size). Spoilers, obviously:

(https://i.imgur.com/TGsJfkq.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 31 October, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Ah - double-checking that I had all the entries accounted for, I noticed a couple of gaps so updated:

(https://i.imgur.com/dzd4CDv.jpg)


The key combos at the end are quite well done - you get punished more for getting 1 of 3 correct than you do for getting 2 of 3 correct.

There are two entries which you shouldn't be able to achieve (because it would be impossible to pick up those combinations of keys), and also an impossible (arithmetically) key combo that leads to a win. (I read that the magazine version of Warlock had a slightly different key placement, as well.)

I'm liking that the Maze of Zagor (viewed as a directed graph) is suitably confusing.

---

Has anyone played electronic versions? Do they even use entry numbers? Does it get randomized?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 01 November, 2021, 12:16:20 AM
Great work, Funt - though after going to imgur on your first flowchart I got caught by a Hallowe'en rabbit hole and haven't actually had time to go through the book myself! 
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 01 November, 2021, 08:55:21 AM
Likewise I haven't quite had the time this weekend, but I'll get it done this week. Great work on that graph Funt! I wonder if there's behind-the-scenes material on-line showing the original design documentation for these books?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 November, 2021, 11:28:04 AM
Lovely work on the graph Funt. I tried a second runthrough at the weekend but messed up the keys, I'll do another one for comepleteness using this I think. In your face, warlock!

I've played one of the gamebooks electronically - Island of the Lizard King - and I don't remember it using numbered paragraph headers. I assume for stuff like the keys here you'd just have tagged items in your inventory that allows you to proceed: that's how I'd build it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 01 November, 2021, 04:29:32 PM
Quote from: wedgeski on 01 November, 2021, 08:55:21 AM
Likewise I haven't quite had the time this weekend, but I'll get it done this week. Great work on that graph Funt! I wonder if there's behind-the-scenes material on-line showing the original design documentation for these books?


Don't know if it's online anywhere, but I do recall SJ and IL appearing on a children's TV programme in the mid-1980s* and showing their working (an A2 or larger piece of paper with lots of numbers and interconnecting lines).




* I'm thinking it may have been Why Don't You?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 November, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
Ian Livingstone on how to write a Fighting Fantasy book. Full 2019 Fighting Fantasy event report! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNSL7zTAy44)

At 6:15 there's a shot of one of the original design maps.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 November, 2021, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 01 November, 2021, 11:28:04 AM
Lovely work on the graph Funt. I tried a second runthrough at the weekend but messed up the keys, I'll do another one for comepleteness using this I think. In your face, warlock!

SPOILERS for the keys:

[spoiler]You need key 99 (on the main path in the outer dungeon, near the start - in the Snake box), then in the inner dungeon, you need to stay on the east track and encounter the Iron Cyclops for key 111 (a). In the Maze of Zagor, you need to defeat the Minotaur for key 111 (b). Nothing else matters much - except don't let the Vampire kill ya![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 01 November, 2021, 10:53:01 PM
The 25th Anniversary Edition came with a fold-out map.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 02 November, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 November, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
Ian Livingstone on how to write a Fighting Fantasy book. Full 2019 Fighting Fantasy event report! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNSL7zTAy44)

At 6:15 there's a shot of one of the original design maps.

Cool video - pleased to say I've met four of those featured, and one of those was socially (i.e. not at a games convention or Forbidden Planet signing).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 November, 2021, 03:35:43 PM
The Warlock of Firetop Mountain

The Adventure
Intrepid adventurer that I am, I take it upon myself to ransack the home of a reclusive and (for all I know) benign Warlock, who - fiendishly! - is minding his own business and posing no apparent threat to anyone. Well, that sort of behaviour obviously cannot be allowed to stand - it's like he wants to be robbed and murdered! Maybe I make a career out of this sort of thing? I'm explicitly told I'm a 'likeable sort of person'; am I a confidence trickster by trade, or just a common housebreaker?

Either way, the Gods obviously like a rogue, as I roll up a respectable Skill of 11 and Strength of 20. It's a low-key start to my home invasion, though it soon kicks into a higher gear when I slaughter five salaried orcs in the guards' mess - take that, Zagor! I hope the 'death at work' indemnities cripple you!

I find a fellow burglar languishing in a prison cell and release him back onto an unsuspecting world, though I'm too late to save a safe-cracking dwarf from dying of torture. Things are looking good by the time I reach an underground river - I've keys, gold, a shiny silver bow and spiffy new shield - but stopping for a sandwich nearly proves my undoing, as a hungry Sandworm erupts from the banks and, galvanised by the smell of my fish paste sarnie, whittles my health down by half. The meal takes me up to less health than I had when I got to the river! That was one costly lunch...

Heedless of the old advice about swimming after eating, I doggy paddle through to the next cavern. Without enough gold to pay the ferryman, I take a decidedly dodgy raft across to the far bank, and then... wham! Someone does me dirty from behind, and the lights go out. (It's fine - the occasional cosh is an occupational hazard for a housebreaker). Waking up in a room full of zombies, I heft my trusty sword and head into battle once more - and the first zombie makes absolute mincemeat of me. Recklessly knocking down doors with my shoulder earlier in the labyrinth means my Skill is now 9, which - while respectable - is obviously not enough against the undead. My supposedly magic shield doesn't save me from a single point of damage (I suspect, too late, that I've been sold a turkey) and I can only land a single, flailing hit before the cadaver ends my home invasion once and for all. The next brave burglar will be facing five, not four, zombies...

The Verdict
Not a favourite, but more fun than I remembered from my only previous playthrough (I suspect that's because I died before I got to the bloody maze). What hamstrings it for me is the total lack of narrative - it's just an opportunistic dungeon crawl, with no scene-setting or background to speak of, and not much forward impetus beyond a chance of loot - and the sheer amount of paragraphs that amount to 'You are at a crossroads, and can go east or west.' If you're a player - like me - who just likes to role play the books (What would I do in this situation?) and isn't making painstaking little maps, then those passages are an exercise in tedium. And I hadn't
even got to the bloody labyrinth yet...!

I think you need the nostalgia factor to get the most from this one. Thanks for making me replay it, though - been meaning to stuck back into the FF books for months. What are we playing next, then - Return to Firetop Mountain...?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 November, 2021, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 02 November, 2021, 03:35:43 PM
If you're a player - like me - who just likes to role play the books (What would I do in this situation?) and isn't making painstaking little maps, then those passages are an exercise in tedium.

Just wanted to point out that wasn't a dig at anyone...! Heaven forbid. Funt, your graphs are superb.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 November, 2021, 05:41:15 PM
Thanks! (I also recognize that turning a 40-year old gamebook into a node map is hugely nerdy, not really worth anything in terms of financial gain and not what some people would call a fun weekend. For me, it's as close to Shangri-La as I expect I'll ever get.)

Love the role-play angle.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 November, 2021, 06:14:16 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 November, 2021, 05:41:15 PM
Love the role-play angle.

It leads to some interesting choices! I had the option to try to sneak around the zombies that killed me, or simply go back the way I'd come; but (with the notable exception of the Sandworm) I'd sailed comfortably through every fight thus far. So I thought 'My guy's going to be feeling pretty cocksure at this point; I can't see why he wouldn't just get stuck in' and threw him straight into battle, even though my own natural inclination would be to explore, and avoid a fight if possible.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 November, 2021, 06:22:57 PM
Oh - that's really interesting. So, if I play Starship Traveller, I could roleplay like Kirk and be fairly gung-ho and aggressive - throwing away my red shirts casually, despite what my calculator brain is telling me.

(I've started the Starship Traveller node map, because it's one of the books I never managed to solve on a straight play-through.)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 November, 2021, 06:49:19 PM
It's a fairly light roleplay - I've never created a name for a character or anything - but it sometimes makes me play against my instincts, which makes for a fun game!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richmond Clements on 02 November, 2021, 10:05:59 PM
This thread has reminded me that I actually wrote one of these a few years ago... https://unseenshadows.com/napoleon-stone-and-the-army-of-set/
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 03 November, 2021, 08:54:06 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 November, 2021, 06:22:57 PM
Oh - that's really interesting. So, if I play Starship Traveller, I could roleplay like Kirk and be fairly gung-ho and aggressive - throwing away my red shirts casually, despite what my calculator brain is telling me.

(I've started the Starship Traveller node map, because it's one of the books I never managed to solve on a straight play-through.)
I'll be using your map when I get to Starship Traveller. I never completed that mofo.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 03 November, 2021, 11:57:44 AM
So far it's fairly irritating - there's a luck test that you win by having a LOW luck score (with an auto-death five nodes in based on the result). Maybe this was a reaction they had to people gaming the attribute scores.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 November, 2021, 12:21:29 PM
Starship Traveller I think has a bad rep for being annoying. I've never played it, but I'm up for it.
I really think we should all play Deathtrap Dungeon soon if we can..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Leigh S on 03 November, 2021, 10:02:05 PM
Doesnt Starship Traveller have a bad rep for (at least early printings) being impossible due to an error with the numbering/paragraphs?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 November, 2021, 10:57:46 PM
It may well be one of the misprint ones, yes...I know it's regarded as having too many extra rules (shooting combat, ship to ship combat, statting up redshirts) that add nothing to the book. I do have a copy so I'd definitely play it
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 04 November, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
I'd picked up the impression we were doing them all in order, at roughly one per week?  The original order of the Puffin editions, that is (not sure when Sorcery! is going to crop up though!)

There was also a Stainless Steel Rat gamebook, written by Harry Harrison - though it doesn't play like Fighting Fantasy or Choose Your Own Adventure, as you may expect from Harry!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 04 November, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 04 November, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
I'd picked up the impression we were doing them all in order, at roughly one per week?  The original order of the Puffin editions, that is (not sure when Sorcery! is going to crop up though!)

Oh, man! I've been wanting to talk about Sorcery! but was worried about derailing the thread!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 04 November, 2021, 11:48:47 AM
The Stainless Steel Rat gamebook was literally impossible to lose, Harry's idea of a joke. A waste of a book.

Sorcery! is simply brilliant.

I also really like Creature of Havoc and Beneath Nightmare Castle.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: I, Cosh on 06 November, 2021, 12:08:18 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 31 October, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
I'm liking that the Maze of Zagor (viewed as a directed graph) is suitably confusing.

---

Has anyone played electronic versions? Do they even use entry numbers? Does it get randomized?
These graphs are very cool. Don't know about others but I played the iPad version of the first Sorcery! and I think it still had paragraph numbers as a convention. It also gave you a limited number of bookmarks that you could jump back to when you realised you'd fucked up.

I enjoyed 80 Days (https://www.inklestudios.com/80days/). A more digitally native equivalent. Doesn't have the same fighting RPG elements but there are quite a few good storylines you can uncover that allow for multiple playthroughs with different successful paths.

Think I misunderstood the communal forum play that was mentioned. There's another forum I visit where we've played a couple together online. Really good fun but might not work here as the forum doesn't support thinks like polling for choices. Also needs somebody who likes to type a lot.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 07 November, 2021, 02:24:45 PM
++SPOILERS++

So, Warlock had three insta-death nodes - encountering the Vampire, the Ghoul and if none of the keys are correct at the end.

Starship Traveller has thirteen insta-deaths, plus four death traps (passages where you can die on a random die roll).

The skills systems is horribly broken as well. Usually, a high score is always good (in either skill or luck). In this book, the Spock always needs a high skill (that's good), but the Bones character tests against a high skill twice, but when it comes to a life or death situation (*their own*), they need a low skill to survive. The Scotty only tests their skill once, and it should be low to succeed. (They all need a high skill to survive the twelve melee and seven phaser combats, though.)

Kirk's skill needs to be high half the time and low half the time, and the same for Luck (which was probably deliberate, but is also weird).

Suspicion: Steve Jackson was in a hurry, or terribly, terribly drunk.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 November, 2021, 04:20:31 PM
Starship Traveller is a terrible book, one of the worst in the series.

Most of the science fiction FF books were pretty bad actually. Exceptions are The Rings of Kether (by Andrew Chapman, who did Seas of Blood and Clash of the Princes) and Rebel Planet.

Beneath Nightmare Castle has (I believe) the most sudden death paragraphs, but you can still get through it with low scores if you find the best route, which is fairer to the players. The sudden deaths actually enhance the atmosphere of threat and grisliness.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 07 November, 2021, 04:42:21 PM
I've got zero interest in the sci-fi gamebooks, I must admit.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 07 November, 2021, 11:00:14 PM
The Titan gamebooks (almost all of the fantasy ones) are the best, though I have a soft spot for Freeway Fighter, but then a) I had a friend at school who loved that book b) I'd recently seen Mad Max 2 and/or 3 and c) I'd read about Steve Jackson's Car Wars in White Dwarf but never played it.  Didn't like the superhero one, despite the Brian Bolland cover.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 November, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 04 November, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
I'd picked up the impression we were doing them all in order, at roughly one per week?  The original order of the Puffin editions, that is (not sure when Sorcery! is going to crop up though!)

I'm up for this. Citadel of Chaos next then? I can have a go at that this weekend.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 November, 2021, 01:26:08 PM
Citadel of Chaos

I've played this twice before, and didn't get very far either time. I remember really liking the Doctor Moreau-stylings of Balthus Dire's haphazard army, though, so I'm looking forward to make good on past failings...

The Prep
My first roll, as always, is for skill. It's... a 1, which gives me a skill of 7. Ouch. This is going to be an uphill battle... But as if to make up for that, the Gods pretty much max out my other stats. Stamina 20, Luck 12, Magic 15 - so I've still got more than a fighting chance. I don't remember what all the spells do, but I take what feels like a broad spread, albiet skewed strongly towards making up for my low skill!

The Playthrough
To be honest, it's a...weird adventure. I sucessfully blag my way past the guards on the gate without the need for a fight, and that rather sets the tone. Keenly aware of my poor skill, I'm reluctant to get into battle, deciding to rely mainly on my natural charm to progress. I bimble about the courtyard and Citadel environs, chatting with Dire's weird cronies to little real benefit. My first encounter of note is the bloody leprauchan, O' Seamus, and it's not long before I realise why Balthus Dire had him locked away in the tower's depths. Having wasted my spell of Shielding and lost a precious skill point to his practical jokes, I'm geting seriously miffed when O' Seamus comes good, gifting me an enchanted sword for my being a good sport. Well, alright then! For the first time this adventure, I feel like I'm starting to get somewhere.

I go through a wine cellar and a room with a rock monster in it, and I'm soon back to feeling that I'm not really making the optimum choices. I'm dodging any dangerous encounters, but I'm missing treasure chests and clues, too. I then have a disastrous time on a trick staircase, of all things, and my lowly skill of 7 has plummeted to a 5. A 5...! Just as well I've done no fighting yet! I consider using a skill spell, but decide to hang on just a little longer before I do.

Eventually I enter a room that has a circular trench (a bottomless pit, or I've never seen one) and a chest sitting on a rocky island in the centre. One of the choices I'm given is to 'pick up the nearby rope and formulate a plan.' The wording of this intrigues me (and I'm getting sick of walking past treasure chests) so it's what I go for. My plan amounts to tying the rope around my waist, then lassoing the chest and trying to drag it over to me. Except the chest plunges straight into the void, and is so heavy that it takes me with it - no saving roll, no chance for a levitation spell, nothing. Splat. Somewhere, the Wizard of Yore pinches the bridge of his nose and mutters 'Star bloody pupil...'

The Verdict
I've long considered Citadel to be Firetop 2.0, and this playthrough did nothing to change that. Similar, but improved and expanded in all the right ways. I was impressed at how far I got sans combat. Beyond hacking at a troublesome tentacle around my leg, I spent my adventure chatting, bluffing and cajoling the creatures of the Citadel, which made for a nice change from my Firetop dungeon crawl. The magic mechanic mixes things up massively, too - I'm looking forward to another playthrough to really explore the spells, which I didn't get much oppurtunity to make use of. If only that first die roll had been different...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 15 November, 2021, 08:07:06 PM
Brave of you to try that with the minimum SKILL!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 November, 2021, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: Richard on 15 November, 2021, 08:07:06 PM
Brave of you to try that with the minimum SKILL!

I always play the stats I roll - it's part of the fun! As it turned out, max skill still wouldn't have saved me from falling to my death.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 November, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
Inspired by Dark Jimbo, I played Citadel of Chaos again.

I am using a digital dice app on my phone. It gives me Skill 12, Stamina 24, and Luck 11; assuming that nobody will believe I didn't just make those up, I reluctantly roll again. This time I get Skill 11, Stamina 17 and Luck 11, which is still pretty good! I also get 13 magic spells. I choose a broad range of nearly all of them, and a couple of spare Stamina and Levitation spells (partly because I remember that I will need to have a Levitation spell left over at the very end of the adventure).

At the courtyard gate I manage to bluff my way past the GUARDS, which is easy because one of the three names I can choose to give them is "Blag." I walk around the courtyard to a group sitting by a campfire, who turn out to be three ORCS and a DWARF. I sit down with them without waiting to be asked, and they tell me the password to get into the main building. I continue to ask them questions until they get pissed off and attack me (except for the female orc). Emboldened by my high stats, I forego the opportunity to use magic and fight them with my sword instead. I kill the three combatants, taking two wounds myself. I'm allowed to keep two out of the three items they have: 8 gold coins, a copper key, and a jar of ointment. I guess that artefacts are likely to be more useful than money, so I leave the gold.

I next walk over to two people haggling over a magical dagger. I end up buying the dagger myself, using a Fool's Gold spell since I have no actual gold. (I end up never using the dagger during the adventure.) On my way across the courtyard again, I encounter some magical creature, a tornado / woman combination. Given various options, I decide to talk to her, Test my Luck, am lucky, and she leaves me alone. Arriving at the door to the citadel, I knock and give the password the orc told me.

Once inside, I walk past the steps leading down, go through a door, and at a second door I ring the bell for the butler. I follow the butler's directions, and wind up trying to tiptoe through a guardroom, where I wake up a sleeping guard -- a GARK, actually (a goblin/giant hybrid apparently). Given a range of options to deal with this situation, I imaginatively elect to fight him with my sword. I emerge unscathed from what effectively amounts to unprovoked murder, and loot the room, taking six gold pieces and a hairbrush.

Leaving, I am faced with a boring choice of directions: left or right, with no information about what may lie in either direction. Going right, I approach a door, and a voice bids me to enter. Wary of encountering the very annoying (and Skill-sapping) leprechaun tosser Dark Jimbo bumped into, I decide to avoid this and walk past the door, reaching another door with a sign that says "Players Only." Dimly recalling from a previous read of this book that going through the gambling den leads to unavoidable defeat later on, I choose the option to go back the way I came and go through the first door instead, which turns out not to be the leprechaun but the library. Phew! In the library I read a book called Secrets of the Dark Tower, which very helpfully warns me about something called the "Doompit Trap," which is what did for poor Dark Jimbo, and also tells me the number of the combination lock on the door to Balthus Dire's private quarters. Reading another book about Dire himself tells me that sunlight is harmful to him, possibly fatal. Noticing the librarian acting suspiciously, I decide not to push my luck by staying around and I leave.

I find myself in a big dining hall. Expecting everything to be a trap, I go up the right hand staircase without incident, and find myself on a balcony with three doors. Choosing the left door, I use the copper key to get in, and find MRS DIRE. Distracting her by making a gift of the poor Gark's hairbrush, I steal a Golden Fleece from her bed (Testing my Luck twice to get it, since I know I'll need it later) before leaving.

Offered yet another choice between left and right (definitely a weakness in this book I'm afraid), I arbitrarily choose left and encounter the Doompit Trap. I ignore the hell out of it and just walk around it and get out, ignoring the odour of Dark Jimbo's rotting corpse at the bottom of the pit.

Up some stairs, and in the next room I encounter the terrifying GANJEES, who are in fact so terrifying that I automatically lose 1 Skill point, 2 Stamina points and 1 Luck point. You can literally die of fright in this encounter! There is also a suitably scary illustration by Russ Nicholson (criminally replaced in the modern editions by an inferior artist, but I have a 1984 printing so all is well). I remember from previously that the Ganjees are the toughest enemy to defeat in this book, but I'm not sure I remember how, except that using my sword here is definitely a no-no. I think their magic is more powerful than mine too, so I rummage around in my backpack for something else to use. The only thing I have that I can use here is the jar of ointment which I took from the orcs, and (thank goodness!) they accept it and let me leave unmolested.

In the next room I use the Golden Fleece to get past the HYDRA, and then use the combination number from the library to get through an impenetrable metal door into BALTHUS DIRE'S chamber. He throws a trident at me, which I block with a Shielding spell, and it's on!

I take the opportunity to top up my reduced Skill with a Skill spell, before Dire conjures up a CLAWBEAST to fight me. I cast a Weakness spell on it, and then finish it off with my sword while it lies helpless on the floor.  I cast a Stamina spell, which restores my Stamina to 17 again. I cast an E.S.P. spell to try and read Dire's mind, but he partly blocks it and I don't really learn anything. Dire casts his own spell, and the room begins to shake like in an earthquake, so I use one of my Levitation spells to fly over to the window and pull down the curtains, causing the sunlight to flood into the room and kill him. Turning to 400, I am told I can use my remaining Levitation spell to escape from the citadel without having to go back inside and face the Ganjees again.

Looking at the other options I could have chosen, Dire would actually be quite a formidable opponent if it wasn't for his weakness to sunlight, which somewhat undermines what would otherwise have been a challenging final encounter. Overall, while this book is essentially just another dungeon crawl, I still quite enjoy it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 17 November, 2021, 05:06:21 PM
Love that you role-played DJ's corpse into your go-through.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 18 November, 2021, 11:08:23 AM
We finally got around to playing Warlock the other day - I'm not sure how well the back story comes through but I think part of the dungeon complex was flooded, killing the people living there (hence all the undead after the river) and a tribe of goblinoids moved in shortly afterwards (hence the goblins and orcs before the river).  We are me reading out and Rackle making decisions.

Our play through started with Skill 9, Stamina 20 and Luck 7.  We were doing fine until we injured our hand on the wax-covered portcullis lever.  It was considerably more difficult to get out of fights unscathed with Skill 6 - four zombies did for us in the end.

We'll probably have another attempt and then move on to Citadel of Chaos.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 November, 2021, 11:24:43 AM
Sheridan, sorry to hear of your zombie demise. Skill 6 is a death sentence!

Loved these playthroughs of Citadel. I haven't tackled it yet due to unexpected bogosity at the weekend but I'll have a bash this weekend instead. I remember liking this one apart from the stupid Ganjees. Forest of Doom up after that?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 18 November, 2021, 11:49:48 AM
All being well, I'm going to have another bash at Citadel this weekend. I can hardly do worse!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 18 November, 2021, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 November, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
On my way across the courtyard again, I encounter some magical creature, a tornado / woman combination. Given various options, I decide to talk to her, Test my Luck, am lucky, and she leaves me alone.

You were lucky - I seem to remember she killed me horribly on my first-ever playthrough!

Quote from: Richard on 17 November, 2021, 04:26:43 PM...ignoring the odour of Dark Jimbo's rotting corpse at the bottom of the pit.

Knowing that I sort-of saved the next adventurer from the same trap has genuinely taken some of the sting out of a very ignoble end! :lol:  I only skim-read your account, Richard, so as not to give myself too many spoilers, but it was a great read in the grand F/F roleplay tradition.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 November, 2021, 01:47:23 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 November, 2021, 01:08:46 PM
Very chuffed to find this weekend that I still had a copy of Night Dragon at my parent's. That was a real favourite back in the day - properly hard but probably the closest to a full RPG experience that the series ever got. I'm glad I'll get to play it without needing to fork out some 40 notes on Ebay.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 23 November, 2021, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 23 November, 2021, 01:08:46 PM
Very chuffed to find this weekend that I still had a copy of Night Dragon at my parent's. That was a real favourite back in the day - properly hard but probably the closest to a full RPG experience that the series ever got. I'm glad I'll get to play it without needing to fork out some 40 notes on Ebay.

I think I have that one - just checked my inventory and assuming it's correct then I do, but then I'm also mossing five of the other later books (which is more than I was expecting).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 27 November, 2021, 09:30:59 AM
Many are the students of the Great Wizard of Yore. After the last apprentice's ignoble end in the bowels of Craggern Rock, the estimable conjurer hurriedly sends his next greatest student off to the Citadel of Chaos, to see if he can fare any better...

The Playthrough - Attempt II
A Skill of 12 is a great start, Luck of 7 less so... But with a magic score of 16, I'm quietly confident. With this embarrassment of riches I treat myself to one of every spell, plus doubles of some of the more useful...

Following in my luckless predecessor's footsteps, I confidently bluff my way into the Citadel. This time I march up to one of the various groups in the courtyard and come away with an enchanted dagger for my troubles. The whirlwind-woman dogs my footsteps, but thankfully it doesn't come to blows (ba-dum-tish).

Emboldened by what's already a more successful playthrough, I rap smartly on the door to the Tower, confident I can bluff my way past the guard. I can't, as it turns out, but in the ensuing fight I run rings around the poor Rhino-man, dispatching him to the Great Savannah in the sky without breaking a sweat.

Forewarned of O'Seamus' tricks, I pay the leprechaun a visit. Once again a Skill point must be sacrificed, but I'm wise to his other games and illusions, and the Magic Sword and Silver Mirror are soon mine. Onward to the wine cellar, and the Black-Elf Somellier offers me a few choice vintages to sample. I pick poorly, however, as I down a truth potion and start blabbing my purpose here - the Somellier cannot leave these vaults alive!

He's dispatched easily, and I loot the corpse and the vaults at lesuire. A few rooms on, I'm still adventuring in my predecessor's footsteps, as I reach the room with the golem. Supremely confident in my swordplay, instead of running past I whittle him down to so much gravel. This is much more like it.

A later room presents a truly bizarre encounter with a flying dog's head(!) and a chair that turns into a man that turns into a snake...? Whatever these things are, they're easily distracted, so I'm through the room with no harm done. Were those the infamous Ganjees? Well, I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. My self-satisfaction lasts until the next room. Ah. These are the Ganjees... When I'm offered a chance to look for an item to use against them I take it, sure that this must be where the Silver Mirror comes into play... But it's not even an option, and I'm forced to fight them. That ends as well as you might expect. Blasted back out into the stairwell, I plummet to my death - the same death, after all that, as my luckless forebear. Splat.

The Verdict
Another fun adventure. I didn't intend to shadow my last playthrough quite as closely as I ended up doing, but for all the extra loot I picked up, it didn't really help me in the end. I did feel that I was making much better progress, though. Maybe next time I'll make it all the way to Dire...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 December, 2021, 11:29:15 AM
I've struggled to get time to run at Citadel of Chaos the last few weeks, and with you guys posting these epic reports I feel I may have missed my chance.
Who fancies a crack at book 3:Forest of Doom between now and Christmas then? This was my first ever FF gamebook and I played it over and over I'm confident I know this well and it's got a forgiving ending, so this could be the first one we all beat.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 10 December, 2021, 10:04:50 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 December, 2021, 11:29:15 AM
Who fancies a crack at book 3:Forest of Doom between now and Christmas then?

Funnily enough I was thinking of going ahead and doing Forest.

I've never played that one before, so it'll be all new to me. It's another Ian Livingstone book though, isn't it? I'm expecting One True Path gameplay with lots of insta-death traps...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 11 December, 2021, 02:32:37 AM
There's some strange stuff in that book - like the [spoiler]mini-Balrog who rules over the subterranean mushroom people[/spoiler].

It's like wandering through a forest populated by the Wilderness Random Encounter Table from Basic D&D.

I liked it, and the OG cover is kick-ass:

(https://gamebooks.org/gallery/figfan03.jpg)

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 12 December, 2021, 11:37:15 AM
That magnificent and iconic cover is one of the best drawn ever. Fantastic cover work by Iain McCaig.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 12 December, 2021, 11:49:36 PM
We're well behind - only just 'finished' Warlock tonight and I really want to catch up as Forest is one of my favourites.

So, we'd done the first half properly, playing the stats we rolled and carrying out all the fights, one die roll at a time.  As mentioned above, we got killed by zombies, so we did it all again.  On the second stab we went a different route from the goblinoid section to the river, but still ended up getting killed by the zombies, so ditched the pure method and just read through it.  After going around and around the maze (most recently while having coffee and cake while out shopping) I decided enough was enough and I backtracked along Funt Solo's nodemap to one of the crossroads we'd visited most times and then played from there, not fighting the fights and just going through the choices.  Not that that helped us as we'd only [spoiler]fought the minotaur[/spoiler] and not the [spoiler]cyclops[/spoiler] so had no hope of getting to 400 either way!

I've held off reading everybody's write-ups of Citadel, so we'll have a quick stab at that (playing by the rules) and (if we don't get to the end) we'll carry on at our first death so we can get on to Forest asap...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 13 December, 2021, 12:00:43 AM
When they re-published Warlock of Firetop Mountain in Warlock magazine's first two issues, they re-wrote the key system to change the numbers and locations. I'm not sure what the correct path is in *that* version.

I suppose a perfectly pure gamebook would allow you to choose any path and still win - although that would rather deteriorate the replay value.

In some computer games (Borderlands is a good example) the developers were concerned that the player wouldn't be looking in the right direction when they'd triggered some visually astounding scene - so they occasionally grab control of the player and spin them round to the Exciting Thing Happening Right Now.

Perhaps Roguelikes are the computer game equivalent of a gamebook. Play and die, doesn't matter: play again. Eventually, you'll see all of the content.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 December, 2021, 12:00:43 AM
I suppose a perfectly pure gamebook would allow you to choose any path and still win - although that would rather deteriorate the replay value.

Some later FF books have a 'hub' mechanic that almost works like that. In Night of the Necromancer you play a ghost trying to avenge your own murder; as a ghost can't strictly be killed, your first four or five 'deaths' instead send you back to the hub, to keep trying - and the game actually incentivises a few deaths, with boosts to stats.

Doesn't Scorpion Swamp do something similar, too?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 13 December, 2021, 09:47:41 AM
Scorpion Swamp had clearings that you could revisit (similar to the room in Zagor's Maze where it asks whether you've been there before).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 10:27:20 AM
Ah, that's it. So not quite the same, then.

Charlie Higson's recent The Gates of Death definitely does; lots of 'checkpoints' you can go back to.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 December, 2021, 10:37:10 AM
Forest at least lets you return to the start if you reach the end without both bits of the hammer, unlike the auto-death scenarios in books like Deathtrap Dungeon or Appointment with FEAR if you get to the end without everything on the 'shopping list'.
I like the idea of a book where there is no 'true path' but I assume this is to keep you trying again and again. Interesting that newer books have checkpoints of sorts - I was just talking to someone this weekend about video games having checkpoints now whereas in the 80s you die, it's back to the start. I wonder if that's influenced this idea at all.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 10:45:32 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 13 December, 2021, 10:37:10 AM
Interesting that newer books have checkpoints of sorts - I was just talking to someone this weekend about video games having checkpoints now whereas in the 80s you die, it's back to the start. I wonder if that's influenced this idea at all.

I wonder if it was a value-for-money thing? Nobody was quite as flush back then - there was maybe an expectation that you'd be replaying the same game/gamebook A LOT, rather than buying a new one every time.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Forest of Doom

Well I'm sure you all know the drill here - it's off into the Forest of Doom to find two halves of a Hammer, to save the dwarven village of Stonebridge...

The Playthrough
This book is mental. Apart from Yaztromo, I don't really meet any characters. I don't solve any puzzles. I don't follow a trail of clues. What I do is kill things. A lot of things. A Shape Changer. A Barbarian. A Hill Man. Another Hill Man. A Cat-woman. A Dwarf. A Giant. Three Death Hawks. A Wyvern represents my first serious test - having gone into the fight with 14 Stamina, I come out on a mere 4! After a rest to eat and recover, I rummage through the Wyvern's nest and discover a gold ring and an iron gauntlet. I've read Tolkien, so I leave the ring well alone, but the gauntlet gives me a permanent +1 to my Skill. Result! Climbing out of the nest, I'm set upon by a group of five bandits, demanding items from my bag. Having single-handedly killed a Wyvern, these sorry specimens hold no terrors for me - add another five souls to the death-count (16, if you're wondering).

Giddy with my own prowess I swagger out of the Forest and into Stonebridge like a Lord, trailing bloody red footprints behind me. Except that, without either part of the Hammer in my possession, the dwarfs don't want to know. And here a neat mechanic kicks in, whereby I'm given the option to go back to Yaztromo's tower and try again, items and skills intact (as opposed to 'Better luck next time!')

The Play through - Redux!

So it's back into the trees once more to clobber things with my sword. A Hobgoblin. Another Hobgoblin. A Sting Worm. An Ogre. The Ogre has a captive Goblin in a cage, and as soon as I open it of course he attacks me (Is nobody in this Forest open to just talking it out? Or has my gory reputation preceeded me?) Anyway, he too falls, and I retrieve from his corpse... One half of the Hammer!

Except that the bloody thing is clearly cursed, for it's at this point that my good luck all deserts me. Looting the Ogre's cave, I get blasted in the face by a noxious gas, at massive cost to both Skill and Stamina points. Mazed and reeking, I stagger onward. Climbing up into a tree house is probably not the wisest idea in my current condition, but the end of the adventure is clearly within grasp and I'm desperate to find the hammer head...

I can't loot the tree house because the Ape-Man who lives here is at home, and - unsurprisingly - he'd rather fight than talk it out. On top of my already lowered Skill, I have to subtract 3 from my Attack Strength every round as the Ape-Man's too agile for me! It's... a pretty one-sided fight. As the darkness closes in and breathing becomes difficult,  I look into the Ape-Man's simple, bovine eyes, and find I can't really judge him too harshly. If you had a blood-spattered, sword-wielding maniac attempt an unprovoked home invasion, reeking of death and poison gas, wouldn't you fight back? And I think back on the bloody swathe I cut through the Forest today (21 at final count) and, like David Mitchell's Nazi, I'm finally forced to wonder... Was I the baddie, all along?

The Verdict
The stakes of Forest  are very different from the two books thus far, which is a nice change of pace. It's still a fairly basic dungeon crawl at the end of the day - in many ways it even feels like a step back from WoFM. The vast array of offerings for sale from Yaztromo initially seem like they'll almost be the equivalent of Citadel's magic spells, but in practice they don't add much to the gameplay, as you can only use them when told, and some of them don't seem to appear at all. On the plus side, I didn't encounter any insta-death paragraphs, so that was nice, and I liked the mechanic that gives you multiple chances to get your mission right. There are still plenty of redundant 'Do you go east or west?' passages, though - great for map-making, not much of fun narratively.

Fun but... forgettable. 5.5 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 13 December, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
(Is nobody in this Forest open to just talking it out?


It's the Forest of Doom, not the Forest of - uh, something clever and witty which encapsulates communication and rhymes with doom.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 13 December, 2021, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 13 December, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
(Is nobody in this Forest open to just talking it out?

It's the Forest of Doom, not the Forest of - uh, something clever and witty which encapsulates communication and rhymes with doom.


Commune (icating)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 December, 2021, 03:15:02 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 13 December, 2021, 10:37:10 AM
I like the idea of a book where there is no 'true path'

There are very few books like that, but Beneath Nightmare Castle (FF 25) is a good example. There's one path where if you can collect everything you can significantly reduce the end villain's skill and stamina and generally improve your odds, but there are alternative routes which are harder but still survivable.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 14 December, 2021, 09:41:36 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 13 December, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 13 December, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
(Is nobody in this Forest open to just talking it out?

It's the Forest of Doom, not the Forest of - uh, something clever and witty which encapsulates communication and rhymes with doom.

:lol: Good point!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 December, 2021, 12:08:07 PM
It occurs to me I haven't said much about the art in these books thus far. Malcom Barter's art in Forest of Doom is worthy of comment, if only because it's so damn fleshy and squishy and... generally weird.

Pick of the lot for me is the Catwoman I fought, who just makes me deeply uncomfortable -

(https://i.imgur.com/FoRlTkz.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 01 January, 2022, 05:18:47 PM
Arise, Sir Ian Livingstone:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/uk-games-industry-legend-ian-livingstone-to-be-knighted/?fbclid=IwAR3cSkXRRTsCtHEwVPN6s4QocCNp7yeWkNMM9tuNCioR4PkTSJuAy4Vqvoo
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: MumboJimbo on 02 January, 2022, 03:00:56 PM
Sir Ian Livingstone, I presume!


Ahhh Fighting Fantasy. I had the first 6 in their original cover art (before they besmirched them with the green top border and FF crest). I remember my faves being Starship Traveller (as I was more sci-fi than fantasy back then), and Deathtrap Dungeon. In fact I played Deathtrap Dungeon with my son when he was about 7 on a long bus ride from South London, where we were staying with friends, to the centre. We were off to the Science Museum and when we got there, there was a hell of a queue so I entertained him by ad libbing my own FF-style adventure for him to play.

I never kept my FF books, which I regret. I also had the first issue of Warlock magazine, and Avenger! which is the first book of a rival series of books called Way of the Tiger with a Ninja character. Anyone remember that?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: NapalmKev on 02 January, 2022, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: MumboJimbo on 02 January, 2022, 03:00:56 PM

Avenger! which is the first book of a rival series of books called Way of the Tiger with a Ninja character. Anyone remember that?


Way of the Tiger is a great series and I still have the complete original run (books 1-7). The book '0' prequel came out much later and I've never played it.

In other gamebook news - During my Big New Years' Clean & Tidy session I dug out some of my FF books. I've decided to play through Trial of Champions* and then straight onto Armies of Death. I hope my adventures will be worthy of a tapestry or something.

Cheers

*Is ToC one of the broken books? I seem to recall a problem actually attaining enough Rings to succeed... We'll see I suppose.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 January, 2022, 05:48:50 PM
I was going to correct you and say there were only books 1-6 in Way of the Tiger, but then I looked it up (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Tiger). There were only six in the original run, with the last one ending on a deliberately ambiguous cliffhanger - but then years later (2014-ish) a book 7 was published to tie up the series.

I haven't played book #7.

I loved that series, though - the setting was very well developed.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: MumboJimbo on 03 January, 2022, 10:02:55 PM
I found an archive of Warlock magazines (it was the Fighting Fantasy magazine that ran quarterly in the mid-80s in case you didn't know). Check them out: https://annarchive.com/warlock.html (https://annarchive.com/warlock.html)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 05 January, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
 Well, I seem to have started a thread without ever realising it existed.  And I've really enjoyed reading it - special kudos to Dark Jimbo, whose self-aware travel blogs of Firetop Mountain and Darkwood Forest are comedy gold. 

Poor old warlock - it hadn't really occurred to me till now that he hadn't actually done anything wrong, and the successful player is essentially killing Alan Moore after ransacking his home.  Sorry, Warlock.  I was just following orders.

Edit - thanks for the link, Mumbojimbo! The second issue of that magazine was my introduction to Fighting Fantasy, and I still aim towards those illustrations when trying to furnish and decorate my home.  True story
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 05 January, 2022, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 January, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
...special kudos to Dark Jimbo, whose self-aware travel blogs of Firetop Mountain and Darkwood Forest are comedy gold. 

Gosh, thanks! I wasn't sure how many people were reading them, to be honest, but they're fun to write - and keep me playing the gamebooks.

As there don't seem to be any other playthroughs of Forest of Doom on the way, any day now I'll strapping back on the leather armour and heading off to Port Blacksand...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 05 January, 2022, 03:22:43 PM
It won't be as good as Dark Jimbo's, but we're on our second trip through the forest (well, we got killed by the demon but played on regardless, not that we had both bits of the hammer).
Next one in the pile is Starship wozzit.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 January, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
I'll have a Forest of Doom report up later this week!
Not looking forward to Starship Traveller tbh.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 05 January, 2022, 04:29:38 PM
I'm not looking forward to Starship Traveller either, but it's been sitting on various shelves for the last thirty years*, so about time I did something with it more than just having it there for completeness' sake.

* I'd have tried to play it a few times when a kid, but haven't revisited it since.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 05 January, 2022, 05:18:47 PM
Starship Traveller spoilers right here:

(https://i.imgur.com/jinlIsb.png)

[right-click and save as to get your own copy of the full sized image]
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 05 January, 2022, 09:00:11 PM
Fair play, keep 'em coming, all!

Partucularly looking forward to the Dark Jimbo vs Zanbar Bone smackdown 😀
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
Right! With a big nod to Dark Jimbo, it's time for me to venture into the FOREST OF DOOM!

PART 1

In truth Darkwood forest is a well-trodden path for me and as I pocket the dying Bigleg's loose change nostalgia and deja vu come flooding back. Feeling confident, from Yaztromo I snap up the holy water, garlic buds, nose filters, fire capsules, armband of strength and gloves of missile dexterity as I seem to recall all of these are useful and then it's excitedly off into the mulchy gloom of the forest to find the missing bits of the hammer.

Before long I've been robbed, attacked by a blood-sucking tangleweed and battled both a treeman and the iconic shape changer. Having already lost all my money to the thief I am forced to eschew an offer to be ferried across a river by a friendly centaur and stumble out of the river covered in leeches. In terrible shape I bed down for the night and am promptly attacked by a giant spider. It dawns on me that I am hopelessly lost and definitely not on the right path.

The next morning I sensibly decide not to venture down a mysterious well as I know it's full of gremlins and not much else. I also decide against harassing sleeping gnomes, but I can't stop myself venturing into a hut, picking up a vase of Gom Jabbar and stealing the contents which include a much-needed potion of healing . Continuing North I find an overgrown crypt - I think one of the bits of the hammer lies within, hooray! However I have no key - boo. With a sinking feeling I hurry north along the path. Accosted by bandits, my heart isn't really in it and I pay them off with gold from the abandoned hut before stumbling onto Stonebridge where, red faced, I have to explain to the Dwarves that I made it all the way through the forest and found exactly no bits of their hammer at all. Gloomily trudging back round the outside of the forest I get an arrow in the neck from some hillmen and my adventure is over. That's where overconfidence gets you!

PART 2

Arriving back at Yaztromo's tower, I restock on exactly the same items and once more I'm into the lethal leafy boughs of Darkwood. As a general rule in gamebooks, if given a choice, I always take the left-hand path but this time I decide to turn east. I pay the crow, take it's advice and pretty soon I'm crossing swords with a pair of Hobgoblins. This, if I remember rightly, was my first ever FF battle and I dispatch these two goofs with a big grin and help myself to their stuff. Finding a nearby slimy hole I venture in and defeat a massive slimy worm, then following the crows advice press on to the North where I flatten an ogre with a well-placed rock, free his captive only to have the ungrateful wretch turn on me. Luckily, Goblins suck and one brief fight later I am clutching one half of the fabled hammer!
Unable to stop myself I loot the cave and thank goodness I brought those nose filters. Whistling cheerfully I stroll carelessly onwards and am promptly trapped, drop my sword and end up being extorted of five gold pieces by some precocious little brat. Annoyed, I climb into some poor ape mans house, kill him and steal his stuff too, and this time it's a bracelet of skill. I'm starting to feel pretty damn invincible this time.
At this point I think continuing north will take me out of the forest too quick, so I revert to type and start heading west. Not long after I meet a hunter - what is he doing here? - and he gives me some belladonna. I can't remember this encounter from previous playthroughs, which has me a bit worried. My next stop is the Darkwood Forest arm-wrestling champion, who I guess just hangs out in his hut in this bogus forest arm-wrestling passersby. Naturally I use my armband of strength to cheat and win his dust of levitation which I know I do need to finish this book. Hooray again!
This time when I bed down for the night the encounter is with vampire bats, but I keep the little terrors at bay with my garlic buds. My new day starts with that classic pick me up of an arrow in the shoulder: I avenge my wound (and my previous iteration) on the hillmen and the silver key is mine - exactly what I needed last time out.
By now I'm lost again so I sneak a peek at the east and west options. East takes me back to the Gremlins well, so I follow that route, skip it again, and pretty soon I'm back at the crypt but this time with the key to get in. Old memories flooding back I use my ill-won dust of levitation to get into the sarcophagus, douse the monster inside in holy water and lo, the second part of the hammer is mine! Not wanting to risk anything now I once again pay off the bandits and then it's off to Stonebridge for beer and treasure. Adventure completed!

What a lovely nostalgic experience this has been. One of my favorites as a child, playing it again reminded me my I enjoyed it so much - there's very little insta-death unless you do dumb stuff like attack Yaztromo and the chance to return to the start on failure (even though I messed that up) is so welcome when the forest is basically a literal maze. There's so many things in there that I didn't run into - the giant, the mushroom guys, the werewolf, the sexy / disturbing catwoman - and stuff I skipped like the gremlin well and the wyvern - without mapping it as I went, I could have been wandering about in there for days, it feels truly massive. I'm not sure if it's nostalgia kicking in but I find Malcolm Barter's artwork super evocative and just the right side of disturbing: his twisted Orcs, Gremlins and Hobgoblins especially. Between this and Citadel there's been some superb artwork that's not the sort of thing you'd normally see in a child's book - not gory, but so imaginative and grotesque and just downright odd - fantastic stuff.
Apparently you can win the book with just three fights so it's not one where maximum skill is required either. The nastiest monster I found was the shape changer and that was in my sub-optimal playthrough.

Anyway, if you read to the end of this, thanks / apologies! Starship Traveller awaits!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2022, 10:34:12 AM
Also, anyone seen these?

https://sevensqua.red/collections/fighting-fantasy

I got the Deathtrap Dungeon one for Christmas and following that I'm thinking about getting FoD as well.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: MumboJimbo on 06 January, 2022, 11:57:07 AM
Buoyed by the discussion here, and a nostalgic reading of the Warlock magazines, I gave Warlock of Firetop Mountain a go last night. Rather than cheat a bit, as I used to as a nipper, I thought I'd play it completely by the book (pun intended!): follow the rules to the letter and even draw a map as I went on.

RnGesus was on my side, at least at the start, as I rolled outrageously good stats: Skill 11, Stamina 23 and Luck 10. This allowed for a bold play style, as I could rifle through all the rooms early on with barely a scratch and soon had 26 pieces of gold, the bronze key, the potion of invisibility, glove, cheese etc. My luck eventually started to fail me the other side of the river though. Naively I told the man with the dog that I was raiding the place, at which point he set his dog on me, and after I killed the dog, he turned into a werewolf and came at me. I thought I'd fare pretty well in the fight, after all, I had skill 11 compared to his 8....but the rolls were bad! I defeated him, but with stamina now depleted to 9. I'm now on paragraph 122 which has the memorable picture of the four gaunt looking men in rags, so I'm still to do labyrinth part of the adventure.

It's been quite interesting to follow the rules properly. I've realised how important the luck mechanic is, and how the game is set up to reward boldness by giving you luck points. But by doing that it also provides an incentive to test your luck during battles, as otherwise you won't get the benefits of the luck points you get (as you can't exceed your initial value). Also using provisions to give a +4 to stamina becomes important, and those paragraphs where you're allowed to take a meal become very welcome.

I'll continue tomorrow. I have a vague plan of replaying the first 6 books, as those were the ones I had as a kid.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 06 January, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
Loving these adventure accounts - thanks guys! Huge nostalgia thrills all the way, with a new realisation that the player is essentially a murderous thief.  Looking forward to more.

Forest of Doom has a special place in my heart, being the first FF book I personally bought with my own money. I hadn't appreciated at the time what an amazing piece of art the original cover was.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 06 January, 2022, 08:23:12 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
Between this and Citadel there's been some superb artwork that's not the sort of thing you'd normally see in a child's book - not gory, but so imaginative and grotesque and just downright odd - fantastic stuff.


Jackson and Livingstone fought to make sure they got to pick the artwork - resulting in it being in line with the Games Workshop / White Dwarf / Citadel style.  Compare and contrast with any other children's books of the era, or even TSR / Dungeons and Dragons / Dragon magazine of the time.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 January, 2022, 08:44:28 PM
One of my favorite things about the early Lone Wolf books, and the first Talisman board game, was the art of Gary Chalk. The high quality spend on the early Lone Wolf books had even the smaller illustrations unique, and not just the full page ones - something that gave way later to repetitive iconography.

Talisman's "speak softy but carry a big mace" monk, that featured on the ad for the game, and did a great job of selling the game to me:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iVjXVCvFwQs/X_MxUKGXHnI/AAAAAAAAuyw/BgfHFBbaAt0Q9-YGoHY48JcGAaTHC_BwACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/IMG_8624.jpg)


From Lone Wolf #2, Fire on the Water:

(https://gamebooknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/LW02_GaryChalk_04.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 January, 2022, 01:03:19 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 06 January, 2022, 08:23:12 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
Between this and Citadel there's been some superb artwork that's not the sort of thing you'd normally see in a child's book - not gory, but so imaginative and grotesque and just downright odd - fantastic stuff.

Jackson and Livingstone fought to make sure they got to pick the artwork - resulting in it being in line with the Games Workshop / White Dwarf / Citadel style.  Compare and contrast with any other children's books of the era, or even TSR / Dungeons and Dragons / Dragon magazine of the time.

The art in the original editions of these books is usually fantastic. Disappointingly, Scholastic Books have substituted childish cartoony illustrations by some other artist, which I think is a real shame.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 January, 2022, 09:08:03 AM
I've flicked through a couple of the Scholastic books and the art really is horrible and such a shame - it feels very sanitised and 'made for children' whereas the originals really made me feel like I was getting a peak at a different world where normal rules for childrens books didn't apply. The Wizard editions retain the original art thankfully.

Gary Chalk rules. I could do a Lone Wolf run-through after this (and Avenger. And we should do the Freeway Warrior series too)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 07 January, 2022, 03:31:51 PM
The brother used to get Proteus magazine, which was pretty much Fighting Fantasy by a different name.  Unlike FF, though, each adventure had a mix of .artists, who ranged from amazing to very bad.

The link...
https://annarchive.com/proteus.html
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 07 January, 2022, 03:35:17 PM
Proteus! Feck me, Jayzus - I'd entirely forgotten that existed! Man, no wonder I failed most of my Highers ... too busy nerding.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Pyroxian on 07 January, 2022, 06:28:56 PM
I also remember:
Grail Quest (Aimed at a younger age group than FF, but quite humorous and fun)
Skyfall (Very cool fantasy world that turned out to be a space colony gone wrong - it used coin flips instead of dice)
Forbidden Gateway (Cthulhu-esque gamebooks, sadly only two in the series)

Oh, and Sorcery, which was FF adjacent and set over four books.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 08 January, 2022, 01:26:51 AM
Sorcery! was fantastic. Probably the best of FF.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 January, 2022, 03:32:46 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
Right! With a big nod to Dark Jimbo, it's time for me to venture into the FOREST OF DOOM!

Great stuff! And I think I'm right in saying that this is the board's first successful playthrough? [Edit - No, not quite, but we've had fewer than you'd think.]

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
Unable to stop myself I loot the cave and thank goodness I brought those nose filters.

Bah! I'm not bitter. Not at all...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2022, 09:16:23 AM
In fairness I played Forest of Doom a lot in my youth and I remembered a bunch of it (like nose filters), plus it's very forgiving. When we rock up against something like House of Hell it's going to be multiple deaths in this house.
I'll see if I can tackle Starship Traveller this week, unless anyone is still doing Forest?

Quote from: Pyroxian on 07 January, 2022, 06:28:56 PM
Grail Quest (Aimed at a younger age group than FF, but quite humorous and fun)

I still have a couple of these. Really loved them when I was younger - I found them very immersive. I've been hesitant about rereading them just in case the magic has gone.
That reminds me of 'Wizards, Warriors & You' books - I had a couple of these, I know one of them had a Josh Kirby cover. A step up from the old choose your own adventure books with some rudimentary coin flip mechanics I think. Probably not worth revisiting.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2022, 09:27:37 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2022, 09:16:23 AM
That reminds me of 'Wizards, Warriors & You' books - I had a couple of these, I know one of them had a Josh Kirby cover. A step up from the old choose your own adventure books with some rudimentary coin flip mechanics I think. Probably not worth revisiting.

Quoting myself but... here's a link I found for the WW&Y books, some great old school covers on these.
I especially like the last few. The Warrior Women of Weymouth kick ass, as do the white fire breathing tigers from the Carnival of Demons although the Conquest of Barbarians appears to be a conquest over some foxes.

https://gamebooks.org/Series/185/Show
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Colin YNWA on 10 January, 2022, 09:30:15 AM
I hope you'll excuse a bit of a tangent, but this thread has go me trying to hunt down the 'Lost Worlds' Fantasy combat books - if folks remember those.

Basically - and I suspect this explanation will go a bit wobbly. Each player had a book representing a character type. So Giant Goblin with Mace and Shield vs Female Warrior with Scale, sword and shield. You would give your opponent your book - which was full of pictures (and instructions) of your character in combat. So they - your opponent - would 'see' you character as they attacked you. There was a card and some elaboarate way of then having a fight.

I don't know if that makes any sense and I wish I could remember more about how the system worked. ANYWAY, I've decided to track some of those down (with any luck) to play with the kids as they were immense, quick fun as i recall.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 10 January, 2022, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2022, 09:27:37 AM
The Warrior Women of Weymouth kick ass, as do the white fire breathing tigers from the Carnival of Demons although the Conquest of Barbarians appears to be a conquest over some foxes.


Weymouth?  Always makes me laugh when US authors use real-world British locations in their fiction - Daventry is another one, appearing in the Kings Quest series of games.  I don't know if the creators were thinking they sounded romantic or old-worldy, but to us who live here they're either boring, tacky, dumps or otherwise don't have quite the connotations that ancient fantasy towns should have!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2022, 02:02:40 PM
I look forward The Brutal Barbarians of Bromley and the Sadistic Savages of Sidmouth coming soon....
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 26 January, 2022, 01:47:44 AM
Hello all, having just recently discovered this thread (on my Monday night shift to be exact), I've decided to finally stop lurking and make my presence known to you all with my Favourite Fighting Fantasy Titles and to tell you all the exciting news that you can now pre-order the Lone Wolf Definite Editions from Magnamund.com (https://magnamund.com/collections/definitive-editions).

Fighting Fantasy Titles
Starship Traveller
Island of the Lizard King
House of Hell
The Rings of Kether
Appointment with F.E.A.R.
Rebel Planet
Creature of Havoc
Moonrunner
Sorcery!

I also like the Lone Wolf and Give Yourself Goosebumps series as well.

Also, are there any fan blogs / sites, YouTube channels, FaceBook groups or Reddit communities dedicated to series' such as Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf, CYOA, etc or just game-books in general...?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Lorenzo on 26 January, 2022, 09:18:45 AM
If you can't get enough of this stuff, I notice the latest Essential Judge Dredd: Dredd vs Death contains the short and simple, "House of Death" game, from Diceman 1 magazine. Not many decisions to be made, but it is nicely drawn by Bryan Talbot.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 26 January, 2022, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 26 January, 2022, 01:47:44 AM
Also, are there any fan blogs / sites, YouTube channels, FaceBook groups or Reddit communities dedicated to series' such as Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf, CYOA, etc or just game-books in general...?

I've recently discovered Malthus Dire's Fighting Fantasy Page which is excellent:
http://ffreviewermalthusd.blogspot.com/

Some great ones on your favourite list and interesting you've mentioned Starship Traveller and Rings of Kether which I don't remember fondly and I think the former generally gets bad press. We're doing Starship Traveller next, why not join us and do a playthrough? My life has gone a bit weird lately but I'm hoping to have a go this week.
I'll check out those Lone Wolf reissues shortly...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: moly on 26 January, 2022, 04:48:43 PM
Batman's superior cousin - thank for the heads up with the lone wolf books, just placed an order for the first one but can see me ordering a load more soon
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 January, 2022, 05:11:24 PM
My Lone Wolf collection was one of the things I let go during a big move years ago - and regret quite a lot. I bought some of the re-issued hardbacks that came out a few years ago - Dever had written in a whole new sequence featuring the attack on the monastery at the beginning of Flight From the Dark. It didn't add much, really - if anything, it made you too powerful going into the rest of the book.

I wonder if these new editions will use that version or the original. Maybe Project Aon could tell me. It's interesting that they mention rebalancing some of the gameplay, because it was definitely broken in places.

I had my students code up the combat system, and we discovered that the random number table isn't balanced and neither is the combat chart. There's no algorithm that you can apply to generalize the values - you just need to hard code them all in. I loved the stories, but the system itself is not robustly developed.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 28 January, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Just finished reading through Starship Traveller and had mixed feelings on it.

Just as background, I much prefer the fantasy and specifically Titan-based gamebooks and have re-played those ones many times over the years (though there's quite a few of the later books that I've picked up in recent decades but not played at all yet).

As further background - I like sci-fi (as you might be able to tell from my continued posting on the forum of  the world's longest-running sci-fi comic) but my style of sci-fi leans more towards Alien and Star Wars than Star Trek, and this is a very Trekkie-style adventure.  Not that I dislike ST...

Anyway, for the actual book - there are some interesting rules regarding running a crew brought in, but for actual combat rules are not included in the intro (the reason given is "to allow you to start playing with minimal delay" - they're actually at the back of the book).  The story is not unlike Star Trek: Voyager in that you're a long way from home and the adventure is trying to get back to Alpha Quadrant our universe.  This is done by way of planet-of-the-week scenes, of variable quality.  It was 'fine' though I skip the die rolls and just going through the  motions to find out what happened next.  Which meant that by the time I got to a maze I wasn't taking time to make a map.  After spending about twenty paragraphs taking left/right turns without any descriptions on which one is best and which went round and round, revisiting the same paragraphs again and again (a bit like the Maze of Zagor but without any of the interesting bits at all).  So rather than go in to the other room to get a pen and paper to draw out the maze and try and figure out if it was just a waste of time or actually went somewhere I found an earlier paragraph from before I went to the maze and carried on from there.  I managed to find two 'keys' to get back to our universe but as I hadn't written them down I didn't know what numbers I needed to get back at the end.  I think psychologically "a key marked with the number 99" seems to require being noted on the adventure sheet while "you need to approach the black hole at warp speed three" didn't.


Think I'll dig out that flowchart from upthread to see if that maze actually went anywhere.




p.s. another - the main - reason that I skipped through this one was because I really like the next book in  the series and wanted to get on to it as soon as possible!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 28 January, 2022, 03:27:50 PM
++STARSHIP TRAVELLER SPOILERS AHOY!++

That maze is vital to solve the book, but if you take a wrong turn you get auto-killed. The stardate you need is much later. A bit like Warlock, there's no indication at any time whether a particular sector or stardate (the two numbers you need to win) is more or less likely to be successful.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 31 January, 2022, 12:42:53 AM
City of Thieves play-through

Right, people are still welcome to play Starship Traveller if they want to, but I decided to move on to City of Thieves. I started with Skill 11, Stamina 20 and Luck 9, and the Potion of Stamina.

Arriving at Port Blacksand, I bluff my way past the guard and elect not to pay him for his proffered advice, because I assume he will tell me something worthless and waste my money. With three directions to choose from, I arbitrarily head East and talk to a man who turns out to be an insane maniac, of course (where did I think I was?). I kill him with ease, smash the glass globe he had with him and it produces a magic helmet which increases my Attack Strength in fights. A good start.

I enter the next house, and try to befriend the occupant by sharing my food with him, but he's an ungrateful dick so I murder him in his own home and nick all his gold, which is obviously quite alright because I'm on the side of Good or something. (I also take his gems, but I decide to leave the silk glove behind because it's probably cursed or something -- in these gamebooks, it doesn't pay to be greedy! Or to be ungrateful to people who give you free food.)

Outside, some kid is selling a health potion, or at least that's what he says but I don't trust him and walk on by. I am, after all, in the City of Thieves. However, my caution doesn't save me from being ambushed by three dwarves who knock me out and steal all my gold. (9 Luck points weren't enough!)

Waking up, I pop into a flower shop because I forget I have no money with which to buy anything, but the nice lady accepts payment in food. I am assured that the flower petals will turn into gold coins on contact with dogs' blood. In any other place, that might seem strange, but I take her word for it and buy some.  The man in the next shop, a jeweller, is less flexible about his prices, and so I kill him and steal his gold -- huzzah!

In the market square, some old lady picks my pocket and I lose one of my newly-acquired gold pieces. I ignore a musician because he's probably another thief. A strongman challenges me to a game of "catch the cannonball until one of us drops it," and I accept, but annoyingly the outcome depends entirely on chance and has nothing to do with my decent Stamina score, which seems unfair. I lose and it costs me 5 gold pieces. I buy some useful-looking items, and now I only have one gold piece left, which it turns out is not enough to pay Madam Star the Clairvoyant for her presumably useful info. Oh well.

Leaving the market, I go into another house, which turns out to be occupied by snakes for some reason. I kill them, and then find Nicodemus, the wizard I've been sent to find, living under a bridge. He tells me about all the things I need to defeat the evil Zanbar Bone. This is the thing I dislike about all of Ian Livingstone's books -- there's always a shopping list, and you need every item on it or you automatically fail.  :(

I head East again (it seems to be my default choice in this adventure) and meet a macabre man who offers me 20 gold pieces if I'll play a sudden death game with him. The odds are good and I need the money, so I play and win. I keep going east, but it's a waste of time, I'm not interested in engaging with any of the encounters that way, so I end up re-tracing my steps and heading west towards the harbour. I give a gold piece to a beggar, not to be generous but in the hope of maybe getting something in return, and am rewarded instead with the far superior gift of knowing I have done the right thing. Well I suppose it's better than murdering people just for pissing me off.

I explore a dubious alley and am attacked by wild dogs. Their blood and the magic flowers I bought produce more gold, and I'm now quite rich. I avoid a road-rage incident, and then sneak on board a pirate ship via a rope ladder and into the hold, where I steal some black pearls from a sleeping pirate -- the first of the five items I need to defeat Zanbar Bone!

Leaving the ship and heading east again, I walk past an injured child because I assume it's a trap, then buy a candle in a candle shop and then leave without checking out the magic candles in the back room because I assume it's a trap. I do visit the silversmith though, because I need a silver arrow, so I buy that. I head east again, ignore another man because he's probably a thief, and enter the sewer, just because I vaguely remember from the last time I read this book that it has something I need. Inside I fight some giant rats and then a hag, and take the third item I need from her corpse.

Back at street level, I'm attacked by three robbers. I kill them but they only have one gold piece between them. I enter a woman's house and pretend I'm a tax collector, and she gives me 12 gold pieces. I get what I deserve in the next encounter though, when I spend 20 gold pieces on some chainmail armour which turns out to be basically useless.

I make a citizen's arrest on a fugitive and get a small reward. I enter the public gardens and pick some black lotus flowers -- another essential item -- and fight some monsters that were guarding them. I go down a narrow alley and find a tattoo artist. Nicodemus said I need to get a tattoo of a unicorn on my forehead to protect me from Zanbar Bone's magic -- maybe because it will be so distracting that he won't be able to look in my eyes while he's hypnotising me?

With my new ridiculous tattoo, I now have everything I need to fight the big boss, so it's time to leave the city. As I'm leaving, I end up in a fight with two trolls in the city guard, the toughest opponents so far, but I manage to kill them and escape the City of Thieves.

I then receive a note from Nicodemus which says that I didn't even need all of those items after all. That seems a bit silly, coming as it does immediately after a paragraph where, if you don't have every single one of them, it sends you to an abrupt "you have failed" ending.

In the woods near Zanbar Bone's tower, I fight some random creature and the two of Zanbar's "Moon Dogs." Arriving at his tower, I kill his butler, who turns out to be undead but the silver arrow does its job (and I get to retrieve it for later). Offered a choice between two ornamental shields on the wall in the hallway, I choose the one with a unicorn on it, and it's the right choice. I assume that Zanbar is at the top of the tower, so I decide to ignore all distractions and climb the stairs to the top without exploring any of the rooms along the way -- with hindsight, this was probably a very serious mistake!

Arriving on the roof, I fight a couple of "Death Hawks", get some Stamina points back, and head down to the floor below to confront Zanbar Bone. I immediately run into a sudden death paragraph because I didn't have some other magical artifact nobody even told me I needed! It was probably somewhere in the tower...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 31 January, 2022, 06:09:38 AM
Ah - one of the best books in the series - City of Thieves!

Things start well, as I roll up a Skill 10, Stamina 20, Luck 11 hero! Luck's a core trait for me in these books - it can turn the tide of battle, so I also stock up on a Potion of Fortune. Stamina is taken care of with the provisions. Armed with a fancy sword from Silverton's mayor, and on a noble quest to save the town from the rampaging (and lusty) undead evil of Zanbar Bone, I head down to Port Blacksand to seek the help of the great wizard Nicodemus.

Having bluffed my way into the city, I lay out some serious coin on a skeleton key then almost immediately get peppered with arrows when calling the bluff of some street bandits. Nearly bleeding out I get bandaged up by a healer, who magics my sword off me as payment.

I figure if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, so I wander into someone's house and steal one of their magic brooches. Turns out the owner is a fire-breathing Lizardine, who I have to fight. I stumble out of the house with my bandages smoking and run into a couple of city guards who I have to fight to the death because I haven't got the right paperwork. Limping onward, I dumpster dive a pair of Elven boots, which make up for the sword I lost earlier.

The marketplace is lively - a bard sings me a song of fortune, I win a game of toss the cannonball, buy tons of kit because I'm feeling flush, have my fortune told by Madame Star, then drift on towards where she says Nicodemus lives. On the way I pop my head into an abandoned house and fight some snakes for my troubles.

Limping slightly, singed, bandaged and bleeding, I rock up to Nicodemus's grunge pad. He's like Gandalf on PCP - but once I get him to calm down he tells me a shopping list of all the things I'll need to defeat Zanbar Bone - including a fucking ridiculous tattoo right in the middle of my forehead. I'm not sure if he's serious or just shitting me, but I go off in search of four key items and a tattoo artist.

Wandering around town I play poison pill roulette with a death cultist, wander past some serious mental health issues in the low rent part of town and end up playing in a game of Bays' Ball. Somewhere around here I end up with a Potion of Mind Control, although I'm not entirely sure where I got that. I think Nicodemus might have spiked me, if I'm honest.

I head down towards the harbor whistling to myself - it's a pretty nice day, things have been looking up for once - I toss a coin to a beggar - then two wild dogs try to tear out my throat! Jesus - this city! Up ahead there's a pub and a pirate ship - and I sneak aboard the pirate ship. Don't ask me why! It would seem way more sensible to go to the pub, but ... like I said, I've been feeling pretty strange since having tea with Nicodemus. Anyway, I sneak aboard and filch one of my shopping list items off a pirate and get some information about where to get another required item made.

After a goblin ambush I get a bit vague about what happens next - although I feel really light-headed, and some things seem to be missing out of my pack, and my coin purse. Luckily, I have enough to pay for another item from my shopping list. After that - and, again, put this down to the special tea - I decide to climb down into the sewers. Normal people don't do this, but when you're an adventurer, and you drink special tea at the wizard's hovel, suddenly pirate ships and sewers are must-see destinations.

Down in the stink-tunnels I battle a giant centipede and several sewer rats before defeating and scalping a weird hag with my Potion of Mind Control. Beating up old homeless ladies in the sewer may seem mean, but she was pretty far gone in the head, and Nic said I needed some old lady hair to defeat the death metal rock lothario Zanbar Bone. Better her then me, basically.

A quick clamber back outside, pausing to chuck a throwing knife at a vagabond and I'm picking lotus flowers in the city gardens and being attacked by vicious topiary. A crowd has gathered. They whisper to each other and give me space. Someone calls the city guard - but the tea is really kicking in now and they look like fucking trolls, man! They threaten to lock me up but I bribe them and they quietly shove me out a side-gate and tell me to sleep it off in the woods.

I wake up the next morning after some hideous dream about fighting a giant snake, and there's some instructions next to me from Wizard Nic (how did they get here?) about how to make up a recipe to defeat Zanbar - but I have to guess the ingredients. I look in the mirror I think I found in the sewers and discover that, at some point yesterday, I did get that tattoo. Fuck! Was Nic even serious about that part? A fucking unicorn on my head! Jesus.

Anyway, I hike on over to Zanbar's tower, by which time it's dark again, and I nearly get killed by his enormous guard dogs. I sneak into his tower using that expensive key I got earlier, and start snooping around. Some garlic I filched off a pirate comes in handy in dissuading one of Zanbar's groupies, and I use a lantern from the market to set fire to an animated mummy. In the sarcophagus I find a piece of merch from that classic Nintendo 64 game - the Ring of the Golden Eye - you use it to see through illusions, like magic eye books and stuff.

I'm not entirely sure whether I've actually woken up at this point because things get pretty strange - there's a cat, but it turns into Zanbar Bone, and then there are dancing skeletons and I fire an arrow at Bone and then while he's down and twitching I rub some of that old homeless lady's hair in his face, and some other stuff, and he doesn't get up. I hitch a ride over to Silverton and I'm like "I killed Zanbar Bone! You're all free now! We're all free!" and people are crowding around and talking, and I think I hear sirens...

...can you hear sirens?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 February, 2022, 04:15:43 PM
City of Thieves

I've played this one once before. Either the FF Gods were on my side, or it's a very well-designed adventure, as I got all the way to the final confrontation with the big baddie, Zanbar Bone. Except that after doing everything right, the whole adventure ultimately comes down to a blind choice out of three. No clues. Just eeny-meeny-miney, and needless to say, I chose poorly - but this infuriating bit of typical Ian Livingstone game design came at the end of an otherwise superb adventure, so I'm rather looking forward to going back to tackling the Night King again...

The Playthrough
...and it isn't the best start. Skill 9, Stamina 17, Luck 8. Ouch. I'm really not sure how I came to be such a famed adventurer with those stats, and can only conclude that I'm actually a bit of a shyster, overfond of telling tall tales. Incredibly, the intro actually backs this up, saying how I love nothing more than having a whole tavern of adoring fans hanging on my every word. Never mind. It's unlikely that being a bit elastic with the truth over the years is ever going to come back and bite me on the - What's that? Mighty reputation? Moon Dogs? Zanbar Bone? Er, well, the thing is... Oh, you merely want me to enlist the services of Nicodemus the wizard. Well, of course, no problem. As long as I'm not going to have to go up against the Night King myself... Ahem.

So it's off to Port Blacksand, City of Thieves, and to be honest I get the feeling my character could be right at home, here. Once I've recruited Nicodemus, maybe I'll set up shop as one of the shady NPCs, bamboozling newcomers out of their gold with my flim-flam. You know, that doesn't sound too bad at all. I meander round the market and kill a mentally ill beggar and some snakes, but my heart's not in it. The plan is to breeze through the early sections of the city and give Nicodemus his quest as quickly as possible, so that I can get on with the serious business of earmarking a suitable tavern in which to set up shop. It will come as a surprise to exactly nobody that, when I finally track him down, he dodges out of the whole thing, landing yours truly right up to my neck in the brown stuff (no, wait - the sewer section doesn't come until much later, does it?).

(https://i.imgur.com/Rfmuphg.jpg)

I choose (grudgingly) to look upon this as a chance to make good on past misdemeanours. This time I'll come good. This time I'll actually be the hero that everyone thinks I am. No tall tales will be needed ever again. This time I really will beat the baddie, get the girl, and be someone who can bear to look at themselves in the mirror. Someone with a unicorn tattoo right in the middle of their face...

I go off down Candle Street, studying my shopping list, when I bump into a high stone wall blocking off the end of the street. There are growls and cheers coming from the other side, so I climb over to investigate. I find a group of goblin-like creatures playing a game that involves a stick, a ball, and a lot of running. These are Bays, playing their favourite game - Bays' Ball. Ba-Dum Tish. I join in and strike the winning hit, netting me all sorts of things apparently collected from down the back of the sofa - 8 gold pieces, a Potion of Mind Control, a silver flute, a piece of chalk, an eye-patch, and a bunch of bananas. I don't look this gift horse in the mouth, though - you never know what will come in handy.

As I arrive at the docks, my patron deity sends me a flash of inspiration, and I feel compelled to board one of the pirate galleons moored up at the wharf, suddenly convinced that black pearls are to be found on board... (aka I vaguely remember this bit from my last playthrough.) Failing a luck roll means having to fight pretty much every pirate on board - I won't be starting a career in cat-burglary anytime soon - but I emerge with one of the needed ingredients in my possession! There's not much else to do at the docks, although gossiping with the fishwives does give me a lead on one of the next ingredients...

It's off to the Silversmith next, who fashions me a Silver Arrow, and as I set off down Stable Street I spy a manhole cover in the ground. Thanks to my earlier hot tip, I'm straight down into what I'm 'disgusted to learn' is a sewer. What I thought would be beneath a manhole cover I'm really not sure. Three giant rats accost me, but they don't prove too difficult a foe, and then, round the corner, a 'hag' approaches. I mean, maybe she really is an evil spellcaster and not just a homeless old woman who's been seriously let down by Port Blacksand's lack of social care, but I never really find out. She certainly starts to chant something horrible at me, but before the curse can take effect (or otherwise), I've used the Potion of Mind Control to knock her out and I'm sawing off a hank of her hair. I'm obviously no fan of the mentally ill - which is an... er, interesting thing to learn about your character - as rather than just, I dunno, let her go, I deliberately elect to throw her into the sewage. Wow. Port Blacksand really is the place for me to put down roots.

But first I have to finish collecting the ingredients to defeat Zanbar Bone. With Hag's Hair in the bag, I'm wending my merry way north up Stable Street when three bully boys block my path, demanding money with menaces. I fancy I'm getting quite good at this hero business, now (look, nobody ever has to know what went down in the sewer, do they?) so I tell them where to go. One of them thinks I may have a point. Unluckily for them, I also have the rest of the sword to go with it...

Bravado's all very well, but it doesn't actually win fights. These boys give me a right pasting, the first serious tussle I've had in the city, and it's a somewhat woozy and bloodied adventurer who eventually continues up Stable Street. One house stands out among the sandstone terraces - it's made of white-painted brick, and has a door with a serpent's head carved on it. The room inside is sparse, and silk curtains obscure an archway on the far wall. From behind the curtain, a woman's voice asks who it is. Perhaps suffering some blood loss, I fumble and stutter a bit, unsure why I even came in, and the woman gets increasingly annoyed until suddenly...

(https://i.imgur.com/PpyAeSE.png)

Well what the bloody hell is this, now? Apparently, she's a Serpent Queen, and she's not had her lunch. It gets worse. In my hubris, I've completely forgotten to heal myself after tangling with the vagabonds, blundering into this completely unnecessary encounter on a measly five stamina. I'm given the option to flee after four combat rounds, but I don't even make it that long.

Ah, well. With my stats, I was probably never going to get as far as Zanbar Bone, anyway. Sorry, Owen Carralif. Sorry, Silvertown. You bet on the wrong horse...

The Verdict
Huge fun, even if I made a fairly woeful showing of it. Port Blacksand is rightly trumpeted as probably the best-realised location in the whole FF series - for once it doesn't feel as though it sprang into existence purely for your adventure, but has an existence of its own, independent of the page. Little touches like all the street names really give it an aged, lived-in feel. The art, by Ian McCaig, is a huge step up from previous books - it has a real sense of humour and character to it that lifts the whole adventure.

The book has some typical Sir Ian Livingstone bad game design later on, like that final blind choice, and I seem to remember the difficulty ramps up exponentially - but as I never really got to those sections this time out, it didn't bother me too much!

Sir Ian's best yet, as well as the best FF overall (so far). 8 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 February, 2022, 10:23:06 AM
Some great playthroughs here and look at that Ian McCaig art! The art in this book is just incredible and so evocative. That Serpent Queen picture is just mental and so full of energy with her striking out of the drapes and cushions. Also, as someone who has been bitten by snakes a lot, that's basically what you see except with less faux-sexy eyelashes.
The Lizardine and the two trolls are two images from this one I especially remember too.

I haven't really had time to play Starship Traveller, and I know I hate it, so I think I'll skip to City of Thieves too as I know it's a bona fide classic and I'm really excited to give it a play.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 03 February, 2022, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 February, 2022, 10:23:06 AM
Some great playthroughs here and look at that Ian McCaig art! The art in this book is just incredible and so evocative. That Serpent Queen picture is just mental and so full of energy with her striking out of the drapes and cushions. Also, as someone who has been bitten by snakes a lot, that's basically what you see except with less faux-sexy eyelashes.

I said that the image of the Cat-woman in Forest of Doom made me feel strangely uncomfortable; this time the text explicitly tells you that the Serpent Queen makes you feel the same way!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 February, 2022, 10:42:39 AM
Stupid sexy snake lady.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 February, 2022, 03:20:22 PM
I was all geared up for City of Thieves today, but the previous book had been sitting unread on my desk for weeks so, pricked by guilt I decided to give it a try and venture forth into the unknown as a STARSHIP TRAVELLER.

Now... I did start doing a proper write up for this, but when I read it back it was pretty boring. Negotiated with some aliens, flew off. Landed on a planet, captured by androids, escaped. Landed on another planet, cured some aliens, flew off. Landed on a planet, brought a poisonous spore aboard, purged it, flew off and so on. I went through a chunk of the book not rolling any dice at all. The maze bit is awful - I managed to get through it by remembering which paragraphs I'd already turned to, as it just goes round in circles. I had one single combat and that could have been easily avoided, but I really wanted to fight the giant robot on the cover (it battered me, until I remembered that I had a skill-boosting android helmet).

It's not a great FF book. The art is mostly flat and lifeless, especially when you compare it to the twisted stuff in Forest and Doom and the atmospheric masterworks in City of Thieves. The mutitude of NPCs you generate at the start serve little purpose, as does the various types of combat. I didn't fire my ships weapons once - although in fairness I avoided any other spaceships after my early negotiations with the reptillian Ganzigs led to them fitting my ship with some kind of gizmo that meant I'd never be able to fight them, which seemed like something that woud come up.
Ultimately it's pretty tedious - the various planets don't really have much in the way of interest, and the aliens are pretty oridnary - and very, very easy. Worst of the lot to date, sadly.

Next up - Zanbar Bone, I'm coming for you!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 February, 2022, 05:28:14 PM
It's time for the CITY OF THIEVES

What a book this is. Depressingly I have the Wizard version with the rubbish cover (although the original illustrations) so after I hit up Port Blacksand I'm off to ebay. But first, the Night Prince and his daughter demanding, Moon-dog unleashing antics must end.

Arriving at this wretched hive of scum and villainy I blag my way in and my first stop is a locksmith where I acquire a skeleton key - it seems apt for a city of thieves, after all. Minutes later I'm ambushed by bandits. A bloody wreck, I crawl up the street and accept the aid of a kindly healer - I'm back to my best, but in return I have to hand over my fine sword.
Continuing up the street I find a house with a welcome sign - I go in. I'm starting to think this adventurer version of me is a bit of a good natured dope, so instead of looting the contents I pop upstairs and chat to the beautifully illustrated Lizardine within who sells me a beautiful brooch with healing properties. I'm feeling badass! Off I go and here's some guards asking to see my papers. The guy on the gate told me I needed one of those didn't he? Erm....
Luckily the guards are weak, so I kill them, steal their gold, bread and keys, hide the bodies in an alleyway and head off trying not to look bloodstained. Why, here's some boots! Too naïve to fear any ill of them, I pop them on and immediately feel better for it.
Happy now I go to the market where my pocket is picked. I'm not too flush for cash now, so I decide against buying any food or paying the bard, although I linger for a while enjoying the tunes and the smells of the market. I win some gold on the cannonball game, buy some rope (because that'll never not come in handy) and a throwing knife and have my fortune read. Then I pop into an abandoned house to keep out of the rain only to find it infested with snakes.
Wiping snake blood from my (inferior) sword blade, I finally arrive at Nicodemus's bridge and get the shopping list to enable me to defeat Zanbar Bone in a complicated way (presumably when he sees me with a unicorn / sun tattoo he'll be helpless with laughter and I can finish him off)
Harbour Street seems a good bet as I know the pirates have pearls, so I head there. A narrow encounter with the carriage of Lord Azzur himself leaves me smarting, but I sneak aboard the pirate ship and a deft bit of thievery later the pearls are mine! I then surprise the captain in his bath (ooer) and he reveals where I can get a silver arrow. A bit red-faced from embarrassment, I leg it.
Heading onto Clog Street where I know I can find a silversmith, I see a child in trouble and my kindly nature leads me to stop to help him only to find this is a sour goblin thief intent on cutting my throat. Luckily goblins are still crap, so I dispatch him and find the silversmiths. The silver arrow is mine!
Heading down stable street I find a manhole cover. Something tells me Dark Jimbo passed this way and he found it worth going down into... the sewer. Nice. I dispatch some rats but next up is a hideous hag who blasts me with terrible illusions of my own death. Screaming wildy and waving my sword like a madman I'm lucky enough to clock her with the blade, breaking the spell, and soon I'm cutting the hair from her lifeless body. I don't feel too bad about this... she started it.
Relieved to be out of the sewer, I use my throwing knife to see off some vagabonds and enter a strange serpent marked house. The pleasant voice of a lady comes from within but wait... is that blood on the drapes? Do I see a bloodtained boot in the corner? Could it be... Dark Jimbo's boot..? Gorge rising, I leg it before I too meet his snakey fate.
Continuing on I'm accosted by an escaped prisoner. Obviously I agree to help, but my sword (unsurprisingly, although I am surprised) cannot cut his chains and when the guards arrive I am forced to hide in a water barrel to escape. I spend the last of my gold to get into the public gardens, fight the hedge and escape with the lotus flower. Shopping list complete! Next up is the tattooist: I'm broke, but luckily I can pawn my magic brooch for the funds to get myself tattooed up. Now I look like a proper berk.
By now I'm still broke and pretty beat up, so I decide to dodge some trolls by scaling the city walls. I drop my shield, but the guards are after me in force now. For a moment I stand on the wall, gripped with panic - that drop looks insurmountable - but wait - climbing rope! Yes! With a sigh of relief I'm over the wall and out of the city of thieves!
Now it's off to Zanbar Bone's residence. As I approach the Night Prince's stinking tower I hear howls and my blood freezes. It's the terrible Moon Dogs! I draw my sword and - well - I get torn to bits. These dogs are BRUTAL. My adventure ends there, reduced to chum by the hounds of hell...

Like my fellow adventurers say, this was brilliant. The city setting is incredibly well realised - it feels more lived in than the mazes, forests and dungeons we've had before, and so well rendered by the illustrations - it's my favourite location so far in FF. I'm a fan of the intro, too - there's a nice bit of background there that gets you into the story straight away.
Definitely the best book yet in my opinion and one I'd like to give another go at - although the switch from three reagents to two sounds like an unsatisfyingly arbitrary way to kill off players at the end, unless there's a clue I missed to that or something later in the tower. I seem to remember the tower is pretty hard, although the city section didn't feel too bad for auto-deaths, although I did nearly cop it at the hag where a failed luck roll would have done for me.
Great book though, best one yet.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 February, 2022, 12:27:54 AM
Great write-up!

So are we going to try and win this book, or move on to Deathtrap Dungeon?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 February, 2022, 12:14:48 PM
Cheers, it was a bit of an essay, but fun!
I'd really like to win this one and I'm going to give it another go, but with maxed stats this time. However I also cannot wait to get onto Deathtrap Dungeon.
Can't imagine any of us is winning that on a first attempt..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 18 February, 2022, 07:58:38 PM
This is the one (non-Sorcery!) book that I've been looking forward to most, so I definitely want a good go at winning it. 

First attempt we got killed by the lizardy personage upstairs, so didn't even get to the market place, so here's hoping luck (or Luck) is on our side for future attempts.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 18 February, 2022, 08:15:56 PM
My scariest fight was with the Moon Dogs - it was a close run thing.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: MumboJimbo on 19 February, 2022, 09:01:50 AM
I had a spooky Fighting Fantasy moment a few weeks ago.

I happened to mention to my son as we were watching TV that I'd been watching a few YouTube video on Fighting Fantasy books (when he was a nipper 10 years ago we used to play Deathtrap Dungeon together). He replied, that's weird as he also had been watching videos on it too! Then we got reminiscing about Deathtrap Dungeon. At the time we were watching The Apprentice, and it showed a preview of next week's episode, and who should be on it, but Sir Ian Livingstone himself!

Spooky!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 19 February, 2022, 11:49:32 AM
Wait til you find Steve Jackson hiding under your bed.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 20 February, 2022, 07:33:58 PM
Okay, so I decided not to wait and moved on to play Deathtrap Dungeon.

I remember this being a particularly hard adventure, since it's one of Ian Livingstone's "find the exact route or fail" books, and a particularly hard example at that. But I still didn't expect to get killed quite so quickly! This must have been my briefest ever play through of any book.

I started with reasonable scores, and opened the mystery box inside the entrance [spoiler]no I'm not going to tell you what is inside[/spoiler]. At the first junction I followed three sets of footsteps, and at the next junction I followed the majority again. I ignored a bell, figuring it must be a trap. I killed two hobgoblins (what is the difference between hobgoblins and regular goblins anyway?) and won a vial of acid. I was then injured by a lame trap involving some wooden poles (boring!).

Then I discovered a room with a Bhudda-type idol in it, with emeralds for eyes. I definitely need those! As I climbed it, I was asked if I had any rope, and of course I didn't, which implies that I had already gone the wrong way, since I'm presumably supposed to have some! I successfully tested my luck and made it to the top, where I was asked to choose which eye to prise out first. My choice triggered a trap, and I had to fight two flying monsters, with a severe skill penalty because I was clinging to the idol. Winning the fight, I collected an emerald, and then I assumed that it must be safe to get the other emerald eye since I had already triggered a trap, so this one must be fine...

Nope! I turned to a sudden death paragraph in which a jet of poisonous gas hit me full in the face and killed me, with no opportunity to test my luck or anything! Damn!

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 February, 2022, 09:45:03 AM
Well that's brutal. The Dungeon claims it's first victim... We should keep a tally of these and see how many times we collectively die before one of us cracks it.
I'm going to have another crack at CoT and then I'll give DD a try.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 February, 2022, 05:20:34 PM
Finally wrapped up City of Thieves but only after I basically skipped the Moon Dog fight. It's horrible!

Zanbar Bone's tower is a bit of a change of pace, being full of vampires and stuff, and the confrontation with the Night Prince himself involves a good dose of luck. It plays heavily into his supernatural powers and almost feels like another book, but not in a bad way.
Awesome gamebook. I'll be tackling Deathtrap Dungeon tomorrow!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 23 February, 2022, 06:04:15 PM
All this talk of gamebooks has led to me ordering a copy of House of Hell, as well as two modern 'choose your own adventure' books by Victoria Hancox: Nightshirt and The Alchemist's Folly. Looking forward to them, and once again you bastards are responsible for me spending too much money.

SBT
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 February, 2022, 06:56:33 PM
Attempted Deathtrap Dungeon this weekend gone. My playthrough turned out to be almost exactly the same as Richard's, except that the stuffed flamingoes killed me before the poison gas could. Hardly the stuff great travelogues are made of... I'll try again soon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 February, 2022, 10:28:34 AM
I've had my first crack at Deathtrap Dungeon and was killed by the same poisonous gas as Richard. That's all three of us so far killed in the same room. Not sure there's any way to know about the gas without making that mistake.
I took a slightly different route to get there, following the single set of footprints. That turned out to be the first of the other entrants, who I found dead.. I'm sure I remember reading that the true path requires passing all the other trialists so I'll take the same route next time, but watch what I stick my sword in as I had an unpleasant encounter with a big puffball. I did however have the rope, which enabled me to dodge the stuffed flamingo things.

How good is the Ian McCaig art is this book?

Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 23 February, 2022, 06:04:15 PM
All this talk of gamebooks has led to me ordering a copy of House of Hell, as well as two modern 'choose your own adventure' books by Victoria Hancox: Nightshirt and The Alchemist's Folly. Looking forward to them, and once again you bastards are responsible for me spending too much money.

Nice to see you chose an easy FF book!
Not heard of those Hancox books but they look interesting, please let us know what they're like!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 February, 2022, 02:50:20 PM
Second attempt: took the same route, got about 3 paragraphs on from the idol and ended up drowning in a trapped room. I was very unlucky here with the dice, but wow, Baron Sukumvit is a dick!
For my third attempt, same route, I acquired some treasures (a ring, jewelled dagger) and defeated some insect-themed monsters but was killed again this time by a trapped mirror.
Neither of these warranted a cool writeup really. Score is now Dungeon 3, Boots 0.

This book is brutal. Both the idol trap and the mirror have no real warning or hint to help you avoid them - it's basically trial and error and neither were traps I remembered to avoid from my previous youthful playthroughs. A quick examination of an alternate path after i died also lead to an auto-death paragraph, so I basically hit a point where going West was death regardless.
I realise this makes a lot of sense for a place called 'Deathtrap Dungeon' where the bulk of entrants are not expected to survive, but what a step up in difficulty!
I've started mapping the place out for another run.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 24 February, 2022, 02:56:04 PM
Yeah, the game design on CoT is so good it felt like Sir Ian was really learning from past efforts (if you ignore Zanbar Bone's tower); but DTD suddenly takes us back to Firetop Mountain-levels of dickery (except that it's even worse!)

I really, really hate 'One True Path' game design - but I suppose that, back in the 80s, without internet and with only four channels on telly, this kind of value-for-money was what you wanted from a book you'd spent all your pocket money on.

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 February, 2022, 07:16:35 PM
I completely agree; I especially dislike the ones where you don't find out you have followed the wrong path until you get to almost the very end (which is most or all of them). I much prefer a more flexible approach. But at least there is a plot-based reason for the one true path in this book.

And this book is also redeemed by some of the great monsters it has, like the Bloodbeast on the original cover.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 24 February, 2022, 09:15:23 PM
Well, I've been playing Nightshift for an hour and have died three times. It's very good- surprisingly atmospheric, and unreliant on dice or magic wands/ complicated combat maneuvers. Very enjoyable so far, but that's enough for tonight.

SBT
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 February, 2022, 10:24:10 AM
I will check out Nightshift, cheers SBT!

On Deathtrap Dungeon / 'one true path' - I agree, yet I'm finding DD to be a lot of fun. I'm not sure how much of this is nostalgia - I suspect if I picked up a new book written in this way I'd get frustrated pretty quick - but because it's so horrifically unfair in places it feels like the only correct way to play this game is to play it over and over, dying again and again and fully exploring the place until you know all it's perils and pitfalls and can find the way through. It helps that the setting and the art are really good.

It'll be interesting to see how I feel about books like House of Hell which I recall being excruciatingly difficult but I didn't own as a kid so have less nostalgic affection for. For now I'm doing a composite playthrough writeup of DD.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 25 February, 2022, 12:22:22 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 23 February, 2022, 06:04:15 PM
All this talk of gamebooks has led to me ordering a copy of House of Hell, as well as two modern 'choose your own adventure' books by Victoria Hancox: Nightshirt and The Alchemist's Folly. Looking forward to them, and once again you bastards are responsible for me spending too much money.

SBT


I think that's Nightshift, not Nightshirt - a google search led me to an amazon ladies nightwear page :-)


So it looks like Nightshift is a gamebook aimed at adults?  There was a spate of them a few years back, but they were pretty primitive - they were books that children wouldn't have found challenging, but with a few swear words or drink and drug references.  Thankfully that trend appears to have died.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 25 February, 2022, 04:53:35 PM
Yes, that was my phone playing silly buggers and I didn't realise til much later. And yeah, very much adult-oriented, but so far without any of the knuckle-biting embarrassment that might be feared. No "if you choose to squeeze her bum go to 234, otherwise caress her boobies first on page 45". I'm finding it quite difficult but I like the general idea- there is a plot to uncover and a number of things to learn in order to succeed. As one of the creatures says "you can't just guess here, you have to learn". Though I have now walked past my own skeleton on a staircase three times, which is annoying.

Fun though.

SBT
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 27 February, 2022, 06:58:43 PM
Deathtrap Dungeon (again)

This time I followed Barrington Boots and went east. This is definitely the right way to go, because you can collect the rope, which makes it easier to climb up the idol and get the emerald.

My opening scores were 10 Skill, 16 Stamina and 9 Luck. I was killed by the flying monsters that protect the idol, so that is the second time I have died in that room, and four deaths of forum members in that room in this thread!

So for my third attempt I cheated a little and awarded myself maximum scores: 12, 24 and 12. This turned out to be a wise move, because towards the end of the book you have to face a succession of opponents with Skills of 11 or 12, which makes winning with a lower Skill practically impossible. Unless you are very lucky with your opening rolls, you have to cheat!

I take the same route as before, easily kill the flying thingies, and get the emerald. After a couple of bits not really worth describing, I come to a junction where I can turn east or west, with absolutely no information about these options at all. This is very irritating, as I presumably now have a 50% chance of failing based on a random guess. FFS!

I choose East as that was the right choice last time, and shortly afterwards I lose my shield, incurring the loss of 1 Skill point. I meet a mad bloke who turns people into stone, including one of my rival contestants. However I survive that encounter and get my lost Skill point back.

Later on I avoid a sudden death paragraph by choosing not to eat some wild mushrooms, kill a couple of goblins,, and come across another unfair junction like the last one. This book is just evil! I head north, enter an iron pipe, and find a sapphire and an iron key. I must be on the right path, as you need the sapphire!

I catch up with another contestant, one of the barbarians (I found the corpse of the other barbarian on the way to the room with the emerald, so that's half of my opponents accounted for). We team up, climb down a pit to a lower level, and I find a book with some important information about the Bloodbeast which will come in handy later. I also find a magic potion which will help me detect traps. Because of these lucky finds, I decide to ignore the next magical artifact I find on a troll I have just slain, as it's bound to be some sort of cursed item or something.

We hurry through a sinister cavern without waiting to find out what is in there, and meet a dick of a dwarf. I mean, what this dwarf lacks in stature he more than makes up for in dickishness. But the book makes it pretty obvious that there will be some penalty for trying to kill him, so I play along with his stupid antics, solve his puzzles, and end up having to fight the barbarian to the death. He's a tough opponent.

Leaving the dwarf, I come to another unfair junction. I head West and find a diamond -- which turns out to be fake, after I have been stung by some giants insects that were guarding it. I go back to the junction and head North, find a pearl (which I know will be of no use, so I now suspect that I'm going the wrong way), and after some bits I will skip I finally meet the Bloodbeast. It's easy enough to get past it, thanks to the book I read earlier, but next I have to fight a Manticore with Skill 11. I recently took the potion of fortune, so I use several of my 13 Luck points to get through this battle.

This gets me to the final encounter: a door which can only be unlocked with three jewels: an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. But I only have two of these, so I spend the rest of my life enslaved in Deathtrap Dungeon...

Third playthrough

Rather than start again, I just go back to the stingy insects (easy to find since there is an illustration of them) and carry on from there, this time continuing West instead of North, since I'm sure that's where I went wrong last time. But I can't remember what my scores were at that point, so now I'm full-on cheating and just reading the book without troubling with dice rolls.

I meet a friendly prisoner of the dungeon Trialmasters, who tells me where I can find a magic doppelganger potion, which I pick up not long later. I also find another contestant, the elf girl, who I try to rescue from a big snake but she dies anyway. I avoid a trap, thanks to that magic potion I drank earlier, and then find the troglodyte colony. I get past them by drinking the Doppelganger potion, escape over a bridge, and use the iron key to open a door and get away.

The next person I meet is a rather suspicious guy who offers to raise me to the level above in a basket on a rope. I don't trust him, so I walk on and reach the room with the Bloodbeast. I still haven't found the diamond, so I've failed again!

Fourth playthrough

I must have been supposed to trust the guy with the basket. I re-start from that point, go up in the basket, and it looks like I was right not to trust him -- it's a trap, but I have to go that way to complete the adventure, so I am rewarded for having poor judgement -- thanks Ian Livingstone! I talk to my captor until I get a chance to knock her over the head when she's distracted. (She's a troll and the sister of Sourbelly the city guard in City of Thieves, possibly the first time an FF book has referenced a character from an earlier book.)

The next encounter is a giant Satanus-like dinosaur with a Skill of 12! After that is the Ninja, the last of my rivals in the Trial of Champions. He has a Skill of 11. He has the diamond! So now I have finally found the correct route through the dungeon, and as I said earlier, it's hardly fair on players with low Initial scores. After the dinosaur and the ninja are the Bloodbeast and the Manticore, and so the survival prospects for a player who is not cheating are frankly very slim indeed.

Back at the exit with the three jewels, I luckily guess the combination on the first try and turn to 400. Looking back at the alternative combinations I could have chosen, they all have severe penalties in lost Stamina points. Livingstone really went out of his way to be a fucker with this one! It must be one of the hardest books in the entire series.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 28 February, 2022, 01:21:32 PM
Awesome writeup Richard, very much enjoyed reading it!

Here's my composite playthrough.

Like I said before I think the book is designed to be played dozens of times to learn the various dos and don'ts of the place. Because I wanted to wrap up the book in one sitting, I also cheated here and gave myself maximum stats and mapped as I went along, meaning I didn't skip any doors or otherwise and took more chances than I might with a 'legit' attempt. If I died, I noted it and continued as though I was trapped in some kind of horrible Groundhog Day scenario.


Following my previous journey I take the east path initially, following the footprints of who I now know to be my fellow contestant the Barbarian. I note again his sad fate, collect the emerald, a ring, the dagger and the rope. At the next junction, with west bringing death, I set off east.
My first action on that path is to fall into a pit, where despite my injuries I recover a ruby, no doubt dropped by some other unfortunate. Continuing east, I discover the room of statues where the fate of the knight is evident: turned to stone. The curator of the statue garden will doom me to the same fate should I fail to answer his riddle, but luckily this is an easy one (although I remember it catching me out as a kid) and the reward is a boost to all three of my stats which is fairly irrelevant and I've maxed them out -  which is good as I am soon locked in battle with an animated skeleton and shortly after some goblins, all of which fall quickly to my blade. In between this combats I suffer my first auto-death paragraph deaths of the weekend, firstly by eating some mushrooms and secondly by knocking politely on a door.
After dispatching the goblins and stealing their climbing equipment I choose to go north - west has consistently led to death - and free a poor soul from his prison: he reveals he is a former contestant who was condemed to servitude down here. I'm not really sure what this guy is going to do once I let him go - the place is riddled with traps and he only has one hand on weapons, so I'm pretty sure he isn't getting out - but it's a small, good deed in a place of horror. Not long after I recover the sapphire from a manky pipe. I'm on the same (correct) track as Richard, so I was right to avoid the western path earlier.
Steeping over some fallen orcs I come face to face with the third of the other contestants - the second barbarian, Throm. I've decided I'm playing the same helpful character as I did in CoT (I'm pretty sure CoT, DD and Lizard King are a loose a trilogy) so her and I decide to join forces and work together against to survive the dungeon. In all honesty we'd be mad not to - the chances of getting to the end are infinitesimal given the number of traps here. I like Throm - he's a quiet, confident sort, superstitious, doesn't like books but doesn't abandon me when I pass out using a magic ring (against his advice, I might add), and his reaction to a mouse is lovely.
The two of us triumph in an extremely vicious battle against some trolls and survive a falling ceiling before we encounter the Trialmaster. As Richard says, this guy is a dick. I don't want to leave Throm, so we rush him, which obviously doesn't work, and I end up having to do his poxy trials anyway, most of which are very unfair. I gamble that a minotaur will be a tougher opponent than a scorpion which is a huge error, so on my respawn I defeat the minotaur and obviously wind up fighting my friend Throm. He is a tough opponent and weeping, I am forced to kill him. I take my revenge on the dwarf, but my heart is heavy as I push on alone. By my count fully half of the contestants are now dead.

North has served me well so far so I avoid the west path, acquire the pearl, get punched by a door, drink some cursed water and buy some stilts. I dodge a couple of traps and before long I am facing the iconic, repulsive Bloodbeast. Having swotted up on the Bloodbeast before I only need to win two rounds of combat - hurray! But it's got SKILL 12 - wtf. I'm knackered from fighting Throm, and it finishes me off. This is my second combat death and 9th death so far. I beat at second attempt and have to fight the manticore - this is another horrific battle, but I get through it on luck alone only to find I don't have a diamond and its game over for me, sentenced to the same fate as the guy I rescued earlier, which is a nice touch.

Restarting, I can see from my map I've missed a few portions of the dungeon but I suspect I should have turned West after the dwarf. I do that, get badly stung for a fake diamond and help another poor soul in the dungeon who gives me a hint about a room to the north. This is followed by another north / west junction and based on the hint I go north.
At this point the info I've gathered starts to pay off as I acquire the doppelganger potion and, remembering the spirit girls poem, forge the submerged tunnel before finding my 4th rival - the elf - battling a giant snake. It's too late for her sadly, and she gives me some useless advice, but I do take her stuff. Further on I find evidence that one of my competitors is still ahead of me - and they may have the diamond I'm searching for.
Dodging Troglodytes I encounter a suspicious man: not trusting him puts me back onto the wrong path so I swap him some of the elf's stuff to lower me down, blag Ivy, fight some dogs and ext up is the pit fiend, another vile battle which I'm able to circumvent by using a rope, grapple and the charm from the fallen elf.
The best trap ever is up next - a sign saying no weapons and armour beyond this point. I ignore it and before long I'm locked in combat with the final remaining contestant: the ninja. So 80s! He's another absolutely horrible battle, and he beats me. By this point I'm tired, so I 'win' the fight. The diamond (and his healing salve and rice) are mine!
The path is now linear: I 'win the Bloodbeast and Manticore battles only to find there's a final challenge from the trialmaster: I have to set the gems in the correct order. It's almost totally random, and the first time I try this it actually kills me despite my not doing the last three fights. A second time around I nail it. Even then the trailmaster tries to finish me off and there's a final trap waiting, but I stagger free into the sunlight to be crowned the champion.

Death tally:

Gassed at poison idol and fell to own death
Drowned in trapped room
Killed by mirror trap
Eaten by rock grub in tunnel
Exploded by mushrooms
Speared by Goblins
Fell to death from slimy pipe
Poisoned by giant scorpion
Killed by Bloodbeast
Enslaved by the trialmaster (no diamond)
Shot by Troglodytes (an error, I did have the key after all!)
Killed by ninja
Blown up by gem door puzzle

Final score: DUNGEON 13 BOOTS 1

What to say about this book? First off it's hugely enjoyable: atmospheric, beautifully illustrated and I'm a big fan of the evidence of the previous contestants - bodies, the missing diamond - and other little nods to continuity. On the negative side it is SO HARD. Although there's a couple of Skill boosts, the book does state that you can't go over your initial values so to complete this without maximum skill would mean defeating the Bloodbeast, the Ninja and the Manticore in quick succession - to say nothing of the Throm and troll fights earlier, and potentially the pit fiend too (getting the grapple requires a big stamina loss, and it's possible to lose the rope at the idol) - which is very unlikely. Even then I'm not sure I could have won all three fights on random dice rolls and also completed the door puzzle without prior knowledge. There's also a LOT of auto deaths and, having mapped it, several dead ends and incorrect paths that can leave you missing crucial items.
It's been a lot of fun, but it feels like the book really isn't one to beat without a lot of trial and error. That said I've had loads of fun playing it. Thankfully the next book up I seem to remember being an easy one but this has been the toughest to date and it really does feel like being trapped in an unfair contest rigged to kill you rather than telling a story.
A last note on the art - it's fantastic. I especially like the shots of the other contestants - the moody image of Throm, the desperate image of the elf and the boa - but his environments are incredible and really set the scene. A quick internet skim tells me this is the last book Iain McCaig did interior illustrations for which is a huge shame as the last two books have been a real highlight.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 01 March, 2022, 02:15:48 PM
That's a great summary, I agree with all of that.
I wonder why Ian McCaig didn't do any more?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 March, 2022, 03:32:37 PM
Thanks Richard. I'm not sure about Iain McCaig but it's a real shame. I think the last thing he did for the regular FF series was the cover for Lizard King (which is way better than the interior image of the Lizard King!)

Speaking of Island of the Lizard King, I'll probably have a crack at it this week but I don't want to get ahead of everyone.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 07 March, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
I had a dream I was in Trial of Champions last night, though it was quite different from the book - kind of like that old Gladiators TV show but with mythical beasts to fight on the way, a baying crowd and lots of Roman-style pomp and splendour.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 March, 2022, 03:38:18 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 07 March, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
I had a dream I was in Trial of Champions last night, though it was quite different from the book - kind of like that old Gladiators TV show but with mythical beasts to fight on the way, a baying crowd and lots of Roman-style pomp and splendour.

Did you win?
And was Jet in it?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 March, 2022, 03:42:42 PM
Whilst looking for info on Iain McCaig I discovered that Deathtrap Dungeon has 31 'instant death' paragraphs.
By comparison (from a list compiled by someone who isn't me):

Warlock has 6, 3 of which are incorrect combinations of keys to the chest.
Citadel of Chaos has 19
Forest of Doom 3
Starship Traveller 13
City of Thieves 10
Lizard King 10
Scorpion Swamp 20
Caverns of the Snow Witch 24.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 March, 2022, 04:50:17 PM
Beneath Nightmare Castle has about 50!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 March, 2022, 06:16:46 PM
47, apparently: http://ffreviewermalthusd.blogspot.com/2014/07/25-beneath-nightmare-castle.html
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 08 March, 2022, 04:21:53 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 07 March, 2022, 03:38:18 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 07 March, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
I had a dream I was in Trial of Champions last night, though it was quite different from the book - kind of like that old Gladiators TV show but with mythical beasts to fight on the way, a baying crowd and lots of Roman-style pomp and splendour.

Did you win?
And was Jet in it?

I woke up before I had a proper run at it, but I was feeling proper heroic while I was getting ready and the crowd were going mental.   

Jet. My grud, she was the only reason my teenage self watched Gladiators.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 March, 2022, 10:22:37 AM
Quote from: Richard on 07 March, 2022, 06:16:46 PM
47, apparently: http://ffreviewermalthusd.blogspot.com/2014/07/25-beneath-nightmare-castle.html

I've never played BNC but I really want to. I've picked up a copy for this very thread, I hope we get to it.

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 08 March, 2022, 04:21:53 PM
Jet. My grud, she was the only reason my teenage self watched Gladiators.
You are not the only one this applies to, JBC!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 14 March, 2022, 07:44:15 PM
caching problem, move along, move along
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 March, 2022, 11:27:48 AM
Whilst waiting to start Island of the Lizard King I've been playing Nightshift (not Nightshirt) as recommended by SBT upthread. It's quite a different experience to FF and a lot trickier - I like the emphasis on puzzles rather than combat / shopping lists of items, and it's an atmospheric experience. It is bloody hard though. I've been getting lost a lot, so I've ended up downloading the map from the authors website and I'm going to start using that to take notes.

I'm excited to get onto IotLK though as it's another one I could actually complete as a kid - I think it's fairly linear and whilst you need some items to win it, they make the final fight easier rather than kill you outright if you don't have them. I may be misremembering.
One thing I'm not misremembering is the Lizard King himself looking badass on the cover looking what can best be described as 'thicc' in the interior art..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 March, 2022, 04:05:45 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 15 March, 2022, 11:27:48 AM
I'm excited to get onto IotLK though as it's another one I could actually complete as a kid - I think it's fairly linear and whilst you need some items to win it, they make the final fight easier rather than kill you outright if you don't have them. I may be misremembering.

WFH today and playing it in quiet moments. This book is very combat heavy and there's a lot of nasty (Skill 9+) fights - I got killed by the very first one I had in the book. Skill to maximum for this one, I think!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 March, 2022, 12:06:08 PM
I've finished Lizard King now. I did write it up but I won't post it here yet in case people are still playing Deathtrap Dungeon / don't want spoilers on IotLK / don't want to read another wall of FF-gamebook text.

It's a really hard book, and not in the way DD is where the place is full of lethal traps and then if you don't have all the stuff at the end you die: it's stuffed full of unrelentingly tough fights with Skill 10 or above. Skill 10 or more is pretty essential and even then I was killed a few times just through attrition until I learned how to avoid a couple of them. The path through the book is actually reasonably straightforward and if you can handle the fights then you can probably finish the book.
The final fight can be made significantly easier to the point of pushover with a couple of items, one of which I think is impossible to miss (although you can just not pick it up) and whilst anticlimatic is quite a nice touch although it does lead to the Lizard King himself being a bit of a joke, especially given how derpy he looks in the picture.

I really liked the feel of the book though with the environments changing as you navigate the island and the various hazards feel thematic to each environment. I also liked the story it tells - rather than just being a random thug out killing and looting in the hope of a prize like Warlock and FoD, here you are on a proper errand of mercy to free the prisoners and avenge poor old Mungo (I don't think this is a spoiler given how any adventuring buddies usually wind up in FF books)
The interior art is from Alan Langford who I feel is one of the 'classic' FF artists and draws some lovely creatures although as mentioned his Lizard King is unfortunately not scary or cool at all especially when compared with the one on the cover.
Probably the third best one I've played so far (after CoT and DD).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 30 March, 2022, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 15 March, 2022, 11:27:48 AM
Whilst waiting to start Island of the Lizard King I've been playing Nightshift (not Nightshirt) as recommended by SBT upthread. It's quite a different experience to FF and a lot trickier - I like the emphasis on puzzles rather than combat / shopping lists of items, and it's an atmospheric experience. It is bloody hard though. I've been getting lost a lot, so I've ended up downloading the map from the authors website and I'm going to start using that to take notes.

Much easier with a map and notes - I'm in the [spoiler]victorian hospital[/spoiler] now but this place is huge. It's definitely a book with a lot of puzzles and I like that. It's also very much a horror work - some pretty grotesque stuff in here. The cat is useful though!

I'm going to finish this and then play Scorpion Swamp.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 March, 2022, 10:14:43 AM
I finished Nightshift yesterday. Would recommend to anyone who likes horror and puzzles and I'd definitely read another book by the author.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 31 March, 2022, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 31 March, 2022, 10:14:43 AM
I finished Nightshift yesterday. Would recommend to anyone who likes horror and puzzles and I'd definitely read another book by the author.

Haha! You've had more luck than me! I've not had much time to go through it, but after six attempts I was prepared to throw it against the wall and shoot it. But yes, highly recommended if you have patience. I've got the next one as well- I expect I will get to it in 2025 at this rate.

SBT
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 April, 2022, 03:56:47 PM
Ha! I did it over a couple of days home working during quiet moments. Definitely map it as it makes it loads easier - I downloaded the maps from the authors website and made notes on it: puzzle and item locations and where to definitely avoid as there's a couple of insta-death rooms. Thanks for posting about it here as I'd never have heard of it otherwise!

I'd like to play the next one, but I have about 18 more FF books to go through first. I might pick it up when I've done another 4 or 5.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 April, 2022, 05:20:38 PM
Scorpion Swamp

Again haven't done a detailed writeup on this one as I'm not sure if anyone else is still playing and I don't want to spoil things too much.

I found this one pretty easy, in that I completed it at first try. It's pretty unique (I think) in FF in that it has three seperate missions you can undertake, giving you three possible ways to tackle it. I chose to do the mission for the good wizard and after I used both my spells of friendship early, charming a hunky wolf-themed wizard and an angry unicorn, my plan of taking the left hand path where able backfired nastily by forcing me into three horrible fights - the third of which was a repeat of the first - which would have almost certainly killed me had I not been rocking maximum stats.
After that I got a lift with an eagle, chatted with more friendly wizards, friendly bandits, friendly rangers and friendly giants before picking up the magic berry I had been sent to find and making my way back via a different route (avoiding an enemy that battered me earlier). My only real issue was the combat - after my bad start I had a number of fights with low skill high stamina things, and then a surprisingly tough encounter with an evil bloke eating cheese.

Given I'd mapped out a good chunk of the place I went back and tried the evil mission, which essentially involves killing a load of wizards, but it was less fun and the ending kind of chastises you for being a dick.

Overall - I remember not being too into this book and it was better than I remembered, but it's not a classic. Having three choices of mission is a good one, meaning you can play it three times: it actively encourages you to map the swamp and it's the first book to give you the option of going back to areas you've already been to, with a mechanic in place to stop you encountering things twice like you do in Forest of Doom. This means you can wander around to your hearts content, and most hazards don't respawn and you can't ever end up down the wrong path. It makes it all much closer to a classic RPG and that's all a very good thing, and it allows you to explore the setting thoroughly.

On the downside, and this might seem petty, it's kind of lacking in atmosphere. The prelude bigs up the swamp as some kind of awful place where none come out alive but it never really comes across as this, especially as a lot of the encounters I met were pretty friendly, chatty types. I think the modular nature of the map and the varaible quests - being able to wander about at will - also removes some of the story aspects from the book: a lot of the encounters felt rather self contained.

Art is by Duncan Smith and it's really good, mainly monsters and characters, although it's more generic in tone than some of the quite twisted and interesting images from the earlier books.

Not a bad one but ranks low when compared to most of the first seven. Next up is Caverns of the Snow Witch which I have never, ever played so looking forward to that.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 05 April, 2022, 11:56:41 PM
You'll like Caverns!
I still intend to do Lizard King soon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 06 April, 2022, 08:07:54 AM
Quote from: Richard on 05 April, 2022, 11:56:41 PM
You'll like Caverns!
I still intend to do Lizard King soon.

Me too. Deathtrap Dungeon broke me for a while, but I'll be back...!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 April, 2022, 09:09:47 AM
Hurray!
Idly reading about Scorpion Swamp this morning and it's written by a Steve Jackson but not the Steve Jackson...
I also found the art from the book on sale here, along with the art from the Fighting Fantasy roleplaying book: https://duncan183.wixsite.com/fantasy-art
Bit dear for me, but I must admit I was tempted.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 09 April, 2022, 05:28:15 PM
https://www.facebook.com/groups/fightingfantasy/permalink/10160098378536407/

(https://i.imgur.com/oJjemRF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/PmZsYWZ.png)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 11:28:28 AM
These would have been great. I have hardback versions of Joe Dever's Freeway Warrior and they're ace.

I have Covid, so I'm going to do a run through Way of the Tiger: Avenger and then have a bash at Snow Witch.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 April, 2022, 12:10:28 PM
What a cruel April Fool!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 11 April, 2022, 01:19:20 PM
For those who want to know why I posted those two images, it's because Ian says that they may be planning something like this for ALL 59 original books for it's 45th Anniversary.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 April, 2022, 01:41:57 PM
Quote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 11 April, 2022, 01:19:20 PM
For those who want to know why I posted those two images, it's because Ian says that they may be planning something like this for ALL 59 original books for it's 45th Anniversary.

He doesn't quite say all 59 - and honestly, a lot of those really aren't deserving of it. Whereas some of the best books in the series - Howl of the Werewolf, for instance - weren't published as part of the original run.

Massively exciting news, (potentially) though!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 11 April, 2022, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 11 April, 2022, 01:41:57 PM
Quote from: Batman's Superior Cousin on 11 April, 2022, 01:19:20 PM
For those who want to know why I posted those two images, it's because Ian says that they may be planning something like this for ALL 59 original books for it's 45th Anniversary.

He doesn't quite say all 59 - and honestly, a lot of those really aren't deserving of it. Whereas some of the best books in the series - Howl of the Werewolf, for instance - weren't published as part of the original run.

Massively exciting news, (potentially) though!
(https://i.imgur.com/gWZ1Wwj.png)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 05:23:57 PM
Isn't that claim of 59 part of the April Fools bit?

Regardless I'm not sure hardback versions of all 59 is viable - or affordable - although it would be pretty awesome. I'd settle for reprints of the whole set - I only own about half the series and whilst I haven't looked in detail beyond a quick 'can I buy a job lot for the purposes of this thread' query, some of the latter ones look to be pretty hard to obtain now I think. I'd definitely splash out for nicer editions of the best ones though and I do have Assassins of Allansia in hardback (and signed by the man himself!)

Speaking of assassins....
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 05:25:22 PM
In the first of what might be a few 'I have Covid' playthroughs I revisited one of my favourite gamebooks of youth, Avenger!, from The Way of the Tiger series today.

The worldbuilding in this book is glorious - it's stuffed with detail that you don't get in the early FF books, enough to make you really feel like you've stepped into a fully realised world. It's helped tremendously by there being a solid plot: you play a character with a defined background and motivation rather than 'generic sellsword'.

It's also got a nifty little combat system that gives you a choice of various fighting techniques - generally you can use punches or kicks, which are riskier but do more damage, or throws that do no damage but may give you a huge advantage on a follow up attack. Because the damage is calculated via dice roll the fights are much quicker and feel more brutal, and because the enemy's attacks can vary as you do they feel a lot less abstract.
As a ninja you can also pick 3 of 8 special ninja skills which can alter your route through the tale. (I can't stress this enough: always take poison needles and climbing. A couple of the others, like feign death, didn't even crop up in my playthrough)

Plotwise it's a revenge story / assassination role into one as you set off to kill the evocatively named trio of Manse the Deathmage, Honoric, Marshal of the Legion of the Sword of Doom and Yaemon, grandmaster of the monks of the Scarlet Mantis and the man who murdered your adoptive father. It encompasses a battle on a pirate ship, a visit to the famed Arena of Mortavalon (later seen in the Arena of Death duelmasters series), a trip overland and finally breaking into Quench-Heart Keep. The latter part is excellent, as with the smart choices it's possible to assassinate two of your targets without restoring to combat before a final epic showdown on the top of the keep itself.

I did get auto-killed by some lions at one point but being fairly familiar with the book I was able to otherwise finish it without much difficulty.  It's very different to a FF book - there's no need to map it, no 'shopping list' of items needed at the end, and no dead ends, only paths that make your journey easier or harder. Most of the choices you make can be made based on the lore or things you've observed or been told in the text which makes you feel a little more in control of the story. I know I've a lot of nostalgia for it, but the differences, combined with the lore and writing making it so immersive, meant I really really enjoyed this. If I were to critique it I might say that, outside of combat, it may be a bit easy, but that might be because I've played it many times before (many years ago)

I never played another WotT book - back in 1986 I only read gamebooks that were either in the library or on sale at the big Martins on Rayleigh high-street - but I'm tempted to look these out. It looks like there were new editions funded on Kickstarter, but the older ones hold the charm for me!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 11 April, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 05:23:57 PM
Isn't that claim of 59 part of the April Fools bit?

Regardless I'm not sure hardback versions of all 59 is viable - or affordable - although it would be pretty awesome. I'd settle for reprints of the whole set - I only own about half the series and whilst I haven't looked in detail beyond a quick 'can I buy a job lot for the purposes of this thread' query, some of the latter ones look to be pretty hard to obtain now I think. I'd definitely splash out for nicer editions of the best ones though and I do have Assassins of Allansia in hardback (and signed by the man himself!)

Speaking of assassins....

Yet Ian still responded to the April's Fool stating that they're hoping for it to happen in time for the 45 Anniversary...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 April, 2022, 07:34:20 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 05:23:57 PM
I'd settle for reprints of the whole set - I only own about half the series and whilst I haven't looked in detail beyond a quick 'can I buy a job lot for the purposes of this thread' query, some of the latter ones look to be pretty hard to obtain now I think.

And then some...! I did cave and buy a long-coveted copy of Moonrunner because of this thread. Thankfully I already/still have all the other FFs I have any intetest in.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 April, 2022, 08:09:57 PM
Moonrunner is one of the best! Let us know what you think.

QuoteYet Ian still responded to the April's Fool stating that they're hoping for it to happen in time for the 45 Anniversary...
"Hoping..." It's the 40th anniversary this year and they haven't managed to do it, so don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 08:20:58 PM
Moonrunner is one I'd love to get my hands on.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 April, 2022, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: Richard on 11 April, 2022, 08:09:57 PM
Moonrunner is one of the best! Let us know what you think.

I will - eventually! Trying not to skip ahead too far. Finally managed to eke out time for a playthrough of Island of the Lizard King, so I'll post that this week.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 12 April, 2022, 04:25:12 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 April, 2022, 05:25:22 PM
I never played another WotT book - back in 1986 I only read gamebooks that were either in the library or on sale at the big Martins on Rayleigh high-street - but I'm tempted to look these out. It looks like there were new editions funded on Kickstarter, but the older ones hold the charm for me!

I highly recommend playing the other books in the series - I played the original six book series on publication, and have fond memories. Without giving too much away, they stretch the story out in interesting ways so that you're not just a wandering warrior for the entire series.

You probably already know, but Book Six notoriously ended on an ambiguous cliffhanger - although a seventh book was published in 2014 to tie things up. I haven't played that one yet.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 14 April, 2022, 09:35:50 AM
Been a while since I did one of these. For such a supposed classic and a book that so many were looking forward to playing, it's interesting that Deathtrap Dungeon nearly killed the momentum of the whole thread stone dead! Anyway, we're back with...

Island of the Lizard King

A beloved childhood memory, this one. Played it many times, but it's a mark of the book that I can't wait to dive in again...

The Playthrough
I roll up a very respectable adventurer of Skill 11, Stamina 19 and Luck 10, who in turn rolls up to the idyllic little fishing village of Oyster Bay. My old buddy Mungo's in a bind; Oyster Bay's being plagued by Lizard Men from the nearby Fire Island. Well, I'm not having that! He doesn't even have to ask. I've got your back, brother from another mother. Out to sea we go, and it's just like old times.

When we land, we happen upon some PIRATES in the adjoining cove. Nothing needs to be said between us, no questions asked or plans made; we're totally sympatico, an alliance honed by years of journeying together. One soul in two bodies. Swords drawn, we rush down the beach and take out two of the six before they even know we're on them. Two of the remaining buccaneers head for Mungo, two for me. I'm not worried about my pal - ha, they're the ones who need to be worried! I soon finish off my pair, and turn to see how my best pal is getting- Noooooo! Mungooooooooo-! I don't remember much about what happens next. I emerge from a black haze of grief to find the PIRATE CAPTAIN dead at my feet, but there's a tight, hollow place in my chest that stops me from feeling any satisfaction about it.  All the deaths in the world won't bring Mungo back now. A light went out in Allansia today. A light called Mungo.

*       *       *

After laying my friend to rest, I trudge into the jungle. Three HEADHUNTERS waylay me, but their mistake's in trying to take me on one at a time, and it's me who adds to my kill-count. Heading west, I'm soon wading knee-deep through the brackish waters of a vast mire. It seems to stretch as far before me as the eye can see. Just as I'm considering turning back, a gangly amphibian skips nimbly past - it's a MARSH HOPPER, said to know the swamps better than anyone or anything. I persuade it to let me follow in its wake, and away we go. I'm reminded several times that Marsh Hoppers are notoriously untrustworthy, and repeatedly asked if I want to continue following it. Methinks the gamebook doth protest too much - I know a double-bluff when I see one.

(https://i.imgur.com/31FIcQz.png)

Is it you, Mungo, old friend...? Have you come back to guide me on my quest? Is it you who looks out at me from those mournful yellow orbs, you whose - Oh, Shitsticks! The little fucker's led me right into the den of a HYDRA! It's a sticky fight - the first head in particular is blessed with some really lucky rolls, but by the time I turn my attention to the second the Hydra's getting sluggish and mazed, and I emerge the victor. The Marsh Hopper's already off on his getaway sticks - good thing for him, too - so there's nothing to do but sheath my sword and continue my wearyOHMYGOD! I don't even get a single paragraph's grace before a giant WATER SNAKE's attacking me. I survive the encounter, but my stamina's now into single digits. This book is BRUTAL.

Up into the hills I go, munching furiously on my provisions to claw back some health. I have a feeling this is going to be one of those adventures where I'd be better off fighting with a sword in one hand and a sandwich in the other...! I find a dropped snuffbox with a message from one of the prisoners inside, and fight a GIANT LIZARD that's a Harryhausen wet dream. That's right, more combat - so when I find a peaceful pool in a wooded glade, I'm only too glad to pause for a drink. But this is The Island of the Lizard King, so of course I'm immediately attacked by a SPIT TOAD. He doesn't prove much of a foe, though, and once he's dispatched I find an intriguing wooden box sitting at the base of the pool...

The box is a veritable bonanza of goodies! A leather pouch, a glass phial, a gold ring and a pair of red leather boots await me. The boots don't seem to do much except make me look fabulous (I'm thinking Lola in Kinky Boots?); the pouch turns out to be a handy Pouch of Unlimited Contents; but the ring is a Ring of Confusion, and I lose two Skill points for putting it on. Ouch. Thus chastened, I leave the phial well alone, and continue wending my way through the hills. At a river delta I find the hidden raft mentioned in the note from the snuffbox, and clamber eagerly aboard (admittedly struggling to balance a little in my new stilettoes). I have to fight off a CROCODILE and a CRAZED PRISONER – who, in a startling moment of mercy for an Ian Livingstone book, I'm allowed to let live, merely punching him into the river when we reach the last attack round. Sir Ian, you're going soft!

I hop off the raft when I reach a village guarded by two LIZARDMEN! Aha! It feels like I've finally stumbled onto the main plot. I take one out from behind, before they even know I'm there, and cross swords with the second. It feels mighty good to finally get some Lizardman blood on my blade – if only Mungo was here to share this moment. Behind the village is the entrance to the slave mines, and after a bit of mucking about in the tunnels I soon happen upon this unhappy scene...

(https://i.imgur.com/AZBsS82.png)

The LIZARDMAN looks tough, but you know what they say – 'The bigger they are...' It helps that the dwarf prisoners are pretty quick in helping me out, once they master their initial surprise. We're soon on a rampage of retribution through the tunnels, striking chains and collecting lizard heads, and once the dust settles I find I'm the head of a slave army numbering 63 followers! A bit of a party ensues back at the village, and why not? This feels like a big deal. An elf takes it upon himself to burst the party bubble, though, as he takes me aside and explains all about the Gonchong – a nasty parasite grafted to the head of the Lizard King in a symbiotic relationship that makes the two of them nigh unkillable. For us to have any chance of victory, we're going to need to know how to defeat them – and the only person who knows how to do this, apparently, is a shaman who lives 'somewhere' on the island...

Ho-hum. An adventurer's work is never done. This feels like a bit of a wild goose chase – I have literally no clues to help me know where to look – so I have to trust in Sir Ian's game design as I climb towards the slumbering volcano in the west. I slay a wandering HILL TROLL, and then, espying a brightly painted cave entrance up on the bluffs, I know I've found my shaman at last. As I start climbing upward, a spear comes sailing merrily through the air and spears me through the leg! I wonder how many others have fallen for this sneaky little bit of game design? Well played, Sir Ian. It's actually the home of a CAVE WOMAN, and she's not in the mood for making friends. I kill her – albeit reluctantly – and continue up to ransack her cave. There's not much of interest; the exception is some strange red powder, which I decide to spread on my face. Well, I don't feel that I'm too far away from the Lizard King, now – why not indulge in a little war paint for the occasion? Besides, the shade matches my boots.

This turns out to be a good move – I'm now treated to the (faintly ludicrous) potted backstory of the powder, and, honestly, the phrase deus ex machina has never been so apt. The upshot, though, is that wearing the powder will put a stop to any mind control attempts. So let's call it... the Rouge of Resistance. I leave the cave and continue toward the volcano, making a mental note to myself to look out for the Eyeliner of Enchantment and Lipstick of Luck.
Once at the volcano, the shaman's not too hard to find. However, he tells me that it's not for just anyone to take on the likes of the Lizard King, and before he tells me the secret to defeat him, I must pass three tests of skill to prove myself. The wizard's enchanted Rouge gets me through one test, and the cursed Ring (still stuck on my finger) actually comes good and gets me through another. The third I pass by the oh-so cunning method of... not choosing the paragraph where I scream for the shaman to stop. Having thus proven myself, he agrees to tell me how to best the Lizard King and Gonchong. Forearmed with this knowledge, we're surely now entering the endgame...

(https://i.imgur.com/h0qxMUj.png)

Enroute to rendezvous with my army, a HOBGOBLIN guards a bridge across a gully, and I seize gratefully on the book's offer to bribe him to let me pass. I could probably take him in combat, but in all honestly my Stamina's not too good just now, and I've already used most of my provisions up - at this late stage in the game, I can't be taking any more unnecessary risks. Not when I'm so close to taking on the Lizard King... So imagine how my heart sinks when I walk IMMEDIATELY into a LIZARDMAN riding a STYRACOSAURUS, who urges his mount into a killing trot. I go into combat evenly matched with the Styracosaurus for Skill, but on only 7 Stamina; and whatever foul deity the Lizardmen pray to blesses the monstrous steed with all the good dice rolls. Some increasingly desperate Luck rolls can't stave off the inevitable, and it's soon lights out. Get the drinks in, Mungo - I'm on my way, old friend.

The Verdict
Yup, this one's great. I love the little touches of worldbuilding emerging by this point in the series - Mungo talking about how his father died in Deathtrap Dungeon, and Oyster Bay being down the coast from Port Blacksand. It's really starting to feel like a cohesive world. And while he doesn't last long, I love briefly having a buddy to adventure with - more of that sort of thing, please!

While it's hard, that doesn't annoy me the way it did with Deathtrap Dungeon. Perhaps it's that Lizard King doesn't feel as 'on rails' - unlike in the Dungeon, there's a sense that I can take multiple ways to progress. I think that's just an illusion – it's actually quite a linear adventure – but it goes a long way to my enjoyment. And Fire Island is certainly a more evocative setting than those bloody underground tunnels - positively Harryhausian with its tropical island, smouldering volcano and festering swamps. It's hard because there's a LOT of combat - not because of any One True Path nonsense.

To sum up - it's not an adventure that's especially innovative, but it does virtually everything right. Alan Langford's art is solid if unspectacular, and the setting really sings. 7.5 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 April, 2022, 02:00:05 PM
Great writeup Jimbo!

From the start of my (unposted writeup):

QuoteAfter being guilt-tripped by Mungo into joining him in sailing to the terrifying Fire Island, we make land full of hope but before we even get off the beach we've both been killed by a giant crab. Worst rescue party ever.
Second attempt and this time I'm just maxing my stats out. I slay the crab, but.. Mungo... nooooo!

I too had a noooooo moment over brave Mungo: the poor chap gets it regardless and although he's barely mentioned again in the text, I very much enjoyed your holding him close to your heart in your tale.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 April, 2022, 02:20:56 PM
Two new FF books from the creators coming this year:

https://officialfightingfantasy.blogspot.com/2022/04/fighting-fantasy-co-creators-pen-two.html
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 14 April, 2022, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 14 April, 2022, 02:00:05 PM
Great writeup Jimbo!

From the start of my (unposted writeup):

QuoteAfter being guilt-tripped by Mungo into joining him in sailing to the terrifying Fire Island, we make land full of hope but before we even get off the beach we've both been killed by a giant crab.

Thanks BB! This was a fun one - although the crossdressing was a surprise to me!

In the interests of full disclosure, this was my third playthrough. The first one never made it off the beach, either (killed by the pirates) and the second got only slightly further (the headhunters). You really need Skill of 10 or above for this one!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 20 April, 2022, 01:17:22 PM
Was on a trip to and from a wedding in Yorkshire this week, so managed to have a good run through Port Blacksand.  Won't say too much because it's been covered already in this thread, and we're way behind everyone else, but we did manage to survive up to the tower of Zanbar Bone.  Then got killed pretty promptly.  As we'd gotten so far through we decided to head on but not play through the combats.  Then we got killed immediately in the next room.  Oh well!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 20 April, 2022, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 20 April, 2022, 01:17:22 PM
Was on a trip to and from a wedding in Yorkshire this week, so managed to have a good run through [City of Thieves]... we did manage to survive up to the tower of Zanbar Bone.  Then got killed pretty promptly.

I seem to be playing worse now (or having worse luck) than when I used to play these way-back-when. I'd gotten to Zagor, Zanbar Bone and the Lizard King in previous playthroughs (even if I didn't necessarily beat them). I've yet to see a single final boss in this thread...!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 20 April, 2022, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 14 April, 2022, 09:35:50 AM
I must pass three tests of skill to prove myself. The wizard's enchanted Rouge gets me through one test, and the cursed Ring (still stuck on my finger) actually comes good and gets me through another.

Y'know, I've encounted so many people on facebook saying how they used to like Rouge Trooper (and inevitably haven't read 2000AD in thirty years) that my mind automatically turns the word 'rouge' into 'rogue these days.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 20 April, 2022, 09:08:35 PM
Rouge Trooper:

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQbT1FyW/rouge.png)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 April, 2022, 10:19:04 AM
My first ever attempt at the Caverns of the Snow Witch!!

Unlike the previous 8 we've played, this is an entirely new book to me so I'm excited to see what it has in store. The title is impressively lurid although the cover is not the most dynamic - I assume this orc dude is being frozen by said Snow Witch rather than hulking up, but this is one of the rare occasions where I think the reprint cover is a little better.

It's an interesting setup which has nothing to do with the Snow Witch at all: I believe the previous books have had a clearly established villain in the Warlock / Lizard King / Zanbar Bone right from the start so this is a different tack straight away. I'm basically playing a hired thug and am sent to do some hired thug stuff, hunting down a monster that threatens my boss's business. I set off through the snow, literally wandering about without any kind of direction, battling wolves and sheltering from blizzards and presumably hoping this monster will just jump out on me. Upon finding an abandoned hut, with signs of a struggle, I eat the previous occupants stew and steal their weapons, which as a hired goon seems like the sort of thing I'd do, pepping me up after a wound received fighting the wolves previously.
Stomach full of warming stew I press on through the snow, eventually coming upon the purpose of my hunt - a fearsome yeti mauling a trapper, presumably the guy whose house I was just in? The Yeti is a fearsome opponent and I am badly mauled in the fight but emerge victorious. It's too late for the trapper: as he bleeds out on the snow he tells me all about the CAVERNS OF THE SNOW WITCH on a nearby glacier and how they're stuffed with treasure (and monsters). Now on one hand I could at this point return to the caravan and collect my 50GP bounty for killing the yeti, but being a greedy mercenary thug with a high opinion of myself I of course decide to head off to said caverns and see what awaits me.
At this point I'm insta-killed by an avalanche, but fuck that. I re-roll my luck, pass, and press on into the Snow Witch's lair via its hidden glacier entrance.

My first encounter is with an elf - I try to blag him but he reveals he is in thrall to the witch by some kind of magical collar. The next guy I encounter gives me some free cake. These caverns are pretty friendly so far! I decide to return the favour and help out a dwarf, who gives me a sling and a cryptic warning about a rat.

Before long I'm through the glacier and at the entrance to the Snow Witches chambers, where I'm accosted by a wizardly gatekeeper. The book asks me if I have a magic flute, which of course I do not, and I have to battle him. He uses Mirror Image and again I fare badly but eventually get the upper hand, driving him off and earning the favor of a genie who promises to make me invisible should I ever need it. This is a bit random but bound to come in useful.
I decide to enter the skull tunnel, following the fleeing wizard. The cavern within contains a frost giant, who I niftily assassinate with my sling and steal his stuff. There is a conundrum here: three rings, and previous FF-readings suggest to me at least one will be bad. I stick on all three, and of course one reduces my skill by 2d6, leaving me with a pathetic skill of 1. This is basically game over for me especially as the very next paragraph is a skill 11 battle. It's not even worth me attempting this and the Crystal Warrior cuts me down. Could have done with a genie's help here, to be honest!

Really enjoyed this so far, although my two deaths sucked - stuff like the rings I wish there was at least some kind of clue which might be the bad one, rather than learning through bitter experience. The frozen north setting is different to what we've seen before, although it has turned into another go-left-or-go-right dungeon crawl, and I liked the plot evolving from hunt the yeti to kill the Snow Witch. I really like the art - it's almost woodcut-like, very different in style to anything I've seen before, and whilst some of the monsters have a look I can only describe as derpy (that yeti!) it's totally unique and I really dig it.

I will have another try later.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 21 April, 2022, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 21 April, 2022, 10:19:04 AM
I really like the art - it's almost woodcut-like, very different in style to anything I've seen before, and whilst some of the monsters have a look I can only describe as derpy (that yeti!) it's totally unique and I really dig it.

Yeah, it's gorgeous. Such a shame he didn't do any more books. I'm really looking forward to replaying CotSW.

I've nearly caught you up - had two abortive playthroughs of Scorpion Swamp already. Hopefully I'll manage one this weekend where I last long enough to bother writing it up!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 April, 2022, 11:51:19 AM
That's excellent - I've been on a bit of a go slow / not posting in depth writeups in case I spoiled things for others. I found SS quite easy, but that might just be because I was so familiar with it. Look forward to reading your experience!

CotSW is excellent so far if bloody tough: I've had three fights and two have been with Skill 10+ enemies.. it's actually pretty cool to be playing a new (to me) book. I have a few more of these coming up too, although mainly sci-fi ones.

I'm going to have another crack at Caverns on my lunchbreak I think.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 21 April, 2022, 12:06:47 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 21 April, 2022, 11:51:19 AM
That's excellent - I've been on a bit of a go slow / not posting in depth writeups in case I spoiled things for others. I found SS quite easy, but that might just be because I was so familiar with it. Look forward to reading your experience!

Both deaths basically due to trying to talk to evil sorcerers, rather than killing them on sight; first Grimslade, who summoned a demon to take my Brass Ring from me, then an insta-death at the hands of the Master of Spiders. I tried to fight the Skill 16(!) demon with a Skill of 8, which I thought was quite heroic... you can guess how long I lasted, though!

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 21 April, 2022, 03:47:41 PM
Caverns of the Snow Witch was an interesting one on publication. The Fighting Fantasy magazine, Warlock, had run a cut-down version (190 entries) that was basically the opening mission & cavern part - so it was a standard dungeon crawl with your key enemy waiting at the end.

I don't know if they wrote the book first, then cut it down for the magazine, or vice versa - but it explains the chapter-like structure.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 April, 2022, 04:02:07 PM
I think, from reading around, it was magazine first and then expanded for the book.

I'm had another couple of deaths on it this afternoon. Moaned about it on FB and was told that when you face the Crystal Warrior, [spoiler]the key is NOT to have the Warhammer as then the genie can make you invisible and you can dodge the fight altogether. This of course also means leaving the spear, which makes the yeti fight considerably harder.[/spoiler]
That's annoying, and also a bit rubbish as imo you should get the genie option regardless. Ian Livingstone is a monster!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 April, 2022, 04:29:45 PM
Fifth attempt! I fast forward to where I was before, and with the aid of the genie, I'm able to bypass the Crystal Warrior and head deeper into the mountain. Taking the left hand fork, I encounter a sarcophagus guarded by a white rat... could this be what the dwarf warned me of earlier? Without spoiling things, yep, and I'm dead again.
Next go: I follow the same path, but this time go right. Dispatching a zombie I stock up on reagents, double back, get past the menace of the white rat to encounter the Snow Witch herself! Do I have any garlic? Nope! Do I have a stake? Nope! And thus I meet my doom again, a servant of the Snow Witch for all eternity.

This felt like it escalated fast! If this was the original end for the adventure in Warlock, it makes sense that things would wrap up here with a selection of 'do you have essential item x' paragraphs. I really want to see how this one progresses, especially as I've run into the Snow Witch herself so early in the quest, so I'm going to start this one again, probably with max stats (Skill 10 seems the minimum you need for this book) and possibly a map... 
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 22 April, 2022, 09:31:24 AM
I don't think we've actually included a list of all the books on this thread yet, so here goes:

This is the original Puffin run.

1   The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
2   The Citadel of Chaos
3   The Forest of Doom
4   Starship Traveller
5   City of Thieves
6   Deathtrap Dungeon
7   Island of the Lizard King
8   Scorpion Swamp
9   Caverns of the Snow Witch[3]
10   House of Hell
11   Talisman of Death
12   Space Assassin
13   Freeway Fighter
14   Temple of Terror
15   The Rings of Kether
16   Seas of Blood
17   Appointment with F.E.A.R.
18   Rebel Planet
19   Demons of the Deep
20   Sword of the Samurai
21   Trial of Champions
22   Robot Commando
23   Masks of Mayhem
24   Creature of Havoc
25   Beneath Nightmare Castle
26   Crypt of the Sorcerer
27   Star Strider
28   Phantoms of Fear
29   Midnight Rogue
30   Chasms of Malice
31   Battleblade Warrior
32   Slaves of the Abyss
33   Sky Lord
34   Stealer of Souls
35   Daggers of Darkness
36   Armies of Death
37   Portal of Evil
38   Vault of the Vampire
39   Fangs of Fury
40   Dead of Night
41   Master of Chaos
42   Black Vein Prophecy
43   The Keep of the Lich Lord
44   Legend of the Shadow Warriors
45   Spectral Stalkers
46   Tower of Destruction
47   The Crimson Tide
48   Moonrunner
49   Siege of Sardath
50   Return to Firetop Mountain
51   Island of the Undead
52   Night Dragon
53   Spellbreaker
54   Legend of Zagor
55   Deathmoor
56   Knights of Doom
57   Magehunter
58   Revenge of the Vampire
59   Curse of the Mummy

plus the Sorcery! saga:
1   The Shamutanti Hills
2   Kharé - Cityport of Traps
3   The Seven Serpents
4   The Crown of Kings

Things were made more confusing by the various runs of reprints, which put them in a different order, missed some out and added in new ones...


4   Stormslayer
6   The Port of Peril
8   Night of the Necromancer
12   The Gates of Death
15   Assassins of Allansia
17   Crystal of Storms
20   Shadow of the Giants
21   Eye of the Dragon
21   Secrets of Salamonis
26   Bloodbones
29   Howl of the Werewolf
Blood of the Zombies

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 22 April, 2022, 10:13:15 AM
Continuing publication order from the original run, the later books would run like this:

Eye of the Dragon
Bloodbones
Howl of the Werewolf
Stormslayer
Night of the Necromancer
Blood of the Zombies
Port of Peril
The Gates of Death
Crystal of Storms
Asassins of Allansia
Shadow of the Giants
Secrets of Salamonis
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 22 April, 2022, 12:03:33 PM
p.s. for those trying to fill in gaps in their collections - the last two on the list are by Ian Livingstone (Shadow of the Giants) and Steve Jackson (Secrets of Salamonis) and are due to be released in September this year, to celebrate the anniversary of Fighting Fantasy.

No doubt there'll be signings at Forbidden Planet, as there was for Ian's Blood of the Zombies ten years ago.  Was it really that long ago?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 April, 2022, 10:09:03 AM
It's a serious list. I've got about half the original Puffin run and a handful of others, but I'm not crazy enough to attempt to collect them all. If this thread is still going and I'm still interested in about 15 books time I might buy some more!
I've not played any of the newer ones I've got - Assassins, Blood of the Zombies etc. I am quite tempted by Bloodbones, because I like pirates. Any strongly recommended ones (besides Moonrunner) from book 29 onwards?

CotSW has defeated me over and over btw, but I'm thinking of doing a cheat playthrough where I max out my stats or even just skip the fights, just to see where it goes.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 25 April, 2022, 11:15:39 AM
Of the later books, Master of Chaos, Spectral Stalkers, Slaves of the Abyss, Siege of Sardath, and Stealer of Souls stand out.

I would also recommend the novel The Trolltooth Wars.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 April, 2022, 03:40:42 PM
On the original publication run, the last one I got was Midnight Rogue, which was enjoyable.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 25 April, 2022, 05:40:24 PM
I had a local bookshop which had a lot of FF books about five years ago.  I probably had just over half the books before that and all but four or five afterwards.  Though looking online those four or five reach very high prices.

I've also not played any of the latter books, as I was going to do what we're all doing now, but didn't get around to it (so thank you, this thread).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 26 April, 2022, 02:41:38 PM
Scorpion Swamp

I've played this one before, somewhere back in the mists of time (I know because I found two old maps of the swamp in my handwriting tucked inside the front cover) but I honestly don't remember anything much about the book, or how I did; except that when you make your choice of which three wizards to serve, I always went with Poomchukker (because his name made me laugh). So I'm essentially embarking on a new adventure, with two of three wizards unplayed and no idea of the ending...

Playthroughs 1, 2 & 3
Well, these go laughably badly. My first adventurer is Skill 8, Stamina 19 and Luck 11. That's right – Skill 8. Sigh. Anyway, my first decision is which of the three characters – good wizard Selator, evil sorcerer Grimslade and neutral trader Poomchukker - I'm going to serve on my meanderings through the swamp. I've been serving the forces of good for six gamebooks now, and I'm not going to lie – the idea of cutting loose and being evil massively appeals. So it's off to the Spooky Castle™ of Grimslade I go. My magic Ring immediately warns me that he's evil. Well, yes. That's why I'm here. He enquires how I plan to get through the swamp, and as soon as I mention the Ring he starts an incantation. In retrospect, I was clearly meant to stop him, but I naively assume he's weaving a protection spell for himself, standing idly by and watching as he summons a Skill 16 DEMON. Skill 16! Against Skill 8! It goes as well as you might expect – although I amaze myself by getting two hits in before I go down.

(https://i.imgur.com/ERL2vBP.png?1)

I won't lie, that left a bad taste in the mouth, so I choose to serve, respectively, Selator and Poomchukker for my next few attempts. Both abortive playthroughs follow the same path – in my fourth clearing I meet evil sorcerer THE MASTER OF SPIDERS. First I try to talk to him. He has a spider bite me. I die. Next I cast a friendship spell. It doesn't work, but he fakes friendship long enough to have a spider bite me. I die.

Playthrough 4
Right. I am done, done, done with evil wizards. From now on, I'm just going to kill on sight anyone who looks even the tiniest bit like Ming the Merciless. This time I roll up my first halfway decent adventurer of Skill 10, Stamina 24(!) and Luck 8. No deliberations this time, I choose good wizard Selator immediately. I'm instantly rewarded for my good judgement (this time, anyway. Ahem...) with an increase of +2 to my initial Luck score. Selator wants a berry from Titan's last remaining Antherica bush, rumoured to grow deep in Scorpion Swamp. Seems simple enough.

The first encounter of note (I meet the MASTER OF WOLVES, but exactly nothing happens) is a gaggle of SWORD TREES. They're a Ronseal enemy if ever there was one – a whole bunch of trees, waving swords. Huh. The natural thing to do seems to be to let a Fire spell take care of them, but it's totally ineffective, so I wade in with my own sword. They aren't as fearsome as they look, but... they are already starting to grow back. So I have it away on my toes, and flee West. In the next clearing is a DIRE BEAST – an enemy so fearsome, so foulsome, that artist Duncan Smith was forbidden from depicting it, lest he warp a generation of impressionable minds. (He would take his revenge years later, after adding an Iain to his name, when he ushered in sweeping cuts to disability benefits and Universal Credit). The beast proves less fearsome than the erstwhile Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, though, and eventually I manage to slay it without much trouble. The only exit is East, so I head back into the Sword Tree clearing and – oh, fiddlesticks. The bastards have already grown back. I hack them to matchwood for a second time and flee North, hoping not to have to come back this way again.

(https://i.imgur.com/njAydVb.png?1)

I use my Friendship spell to placate a wounded UNICORN, and to be honest I'm expecting a reward, a clue or perhaps an ally for a future battle. Nothing happens, and I suspect that's yet another spell wasted. Further North still, and I find myself overlooking the mighty Foulblood River (great name, Steve!) This stymies further progress, and in looking for a way across I run into a THIEF. He seems an affable sort, but my Ring says otherwise – so I've no compunction in cutting him down. His corpse has curiously little to loot – just a red cloak – but I take it anyway. Fording the Foulblood soon afterward, I plunge straight into some quicksand. I survive, but only by shrugging out of my trusty leather armour and abandoning it to the swamp – lowering my respectable Skill of 10 to a lowly 8! This could be the worst thing that's happened to me since entering the Swamp, particularly as in the next clearing a GIANT looms above the treeline.

(https://i.imgur.com/uvqA2u8.png?1)

My ring isn't warning me of danger, so I swallow down my trepidation and hail him in a friendly fashion. Surprisingly, he bursts into tears. Erm... The giant's upset because he's lost his prized red handkerchief (you'd think he'd keep crying to a minimum, then...) 'Does it look something like this?' I ask, whipping out the red cloak I took from the thief. He's overjoyed; I think I've made a friend for life, here. Perhaps I should find this all a bit silly, but it's actually a curiously sweet encounter in a series known for a 'chop heads off, ask questions later' mentality. If this was an Ian Livingstone book I'd already be bathing in his blood! He says he thinks he saw an Antherica bush due North of here, so I duly head off to investigate. And sure enough, there it is – guarded by a brace of WOLVES. Unusually, I kill one of them during the initial text preamble, without having to roll for Luck or Skill or anything, leaving me only one to deal with – and even with my lowered Skill of 8 he doesn't present a challenge. And then there's nothing to do here but walk over to the Antherica bush and pluck a berry. Nothing happens. Was that it? Was a single wolf really my final boss?

The thing is, of course, that I've now got to get back out of the swamp in one piece... But having killed or befriended everyone I met on the way here, it's a fairly easy stroll back, with only a bite by some leeches and a third encounter with the bloody Sword Trees to speak of. And then... that's it. Selator thanks me, we have a cup of tea and... the end. It's all curiously subdued, but then, I suppose I wasn't trying to save Titan from destruction or anything this time. To be honest, it's just nice to still be on my feet for once. I need to take the wins as they come. Pass the sugar, would you, Selator, old chap?

The Verdict
Seventh gamebook's a charm – finally I get a win! The series has gotten comfy lately, so it's nice to have a book which tries to innovate and shake things up a bit, but not everything works the way I suspect it was supposed to.
The three wizards/missions is a great idea, and rewards replayability; but to say Selator's mission fizzles out at the end is an understatement, and Poomchukker's (mapping the Swamp) is something you'll end up doing whoever you serve. I should give Grimslade's mission another go and see how that plays. It's great to have the spells back (last seen in Citadel of Chaos), but they seem a bit of an afterthought, not hugely affecting the gameplay (or at least not on this playthrough).
Scorpion Swamp itself, as noted earlier by Barrington, is hardly the no-go zone that it's made out to be in the blurb. Lots of the encounters seem a bit safe, a bit tame. And I don't think the art helps here – it's perfectly good, occasionally more than that, but something about it's a bit... I don't know, twee?

Enjoyable, and high replay value, but after four attempts to get to the end, it didn't really feel worth the effort once I got there. 6.5 combat dice out of 10
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 27 April, 2022, 10:59:26 AM
Great writeup as ever DJ!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 27 April, 2022, 01:52:00 PM
Interesting fact about Scorpion Swamp.  It's written by Steve Jackson.  Big deal* you may think, don't all the Fighting Fantasy books have Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson's names on the covers?  Well, yes, but no.  This one was written by Steve Jackson of Steve Jackson Games (from the US of A), not Steve Jackson of Games Workshop, Citadel Miniatures, White Dwarf and Fighting Fantasy fame....


* chop party?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 27 April, 2022, 03:23:07 PM
I've finally finished Snow Witch. In order to do so I had to cheat and skip all the fights - even with max stats I was unable to get through to the end. I won't spoil it here for others as there's a nice twist to the tale about halfway through.

This book is insanely hard: it feels tougher than DD although that may be due to familiarity with the latter. Some of it is very cool - I love the artwork, the split into 3 seperate little quests - but some of it is a bit lacking. The second encounter with the Snow Witch herself is pretty rubbish, and the final quest segment does feel a bit tacked on, even if the concept is quite unique: I think it might have even worked better as two seperate volumes. I did really like the nods to continuity with other books - Bigleg and Stonebridge, Firetop Mountain, Fang and so on - you can see the world of FF starting to take shape over the last couple of books.

House of Hell up next. I know this is a well-regarded book, but I when I played it as a kid I really didn't like it: the art, the theme, and the difficulty level all put me right off. I feel a little trepidation about revisiting it. 
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 27 April, 2022, 03:24:46 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 April, 2022, 03:23:07 PM
House of Hell up next. I know this is a well-regarded book, but I when I played it as a kid I really didn't like it: the art, the theme, and the difficulty level all put me right off. I feel a little trepidation about revisiting it.

It's not just me, then.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 27 April, 2022, 03:58:41 PM
Good write-up, Jimbo.

BB, you can always use spoiler tags!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 28 April, 2022, 11:31:20 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 April, 2022, 03:24:46 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 April, 2022, 03:23:07 PM
House of Hell up next. I know this is a well-regarded book, but I when I played it as a kid I really didn't like it: the art, the theme, and the difficulty level all put me right off. I feel a little trepidation about revisiting it.

It's not just me, then.

Nope, me three. I'm tempted to skip it.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 25 April, 2022, 10:09:03 AM
I've not played any of the newer ones I've got - Assassins, Blood of the Zombies etc. I am quite tempted by Bloodbones, because I like pirates. Any strongly recommended ones (besides Moonrunner) from book 29 onwards?

You can't really go wrong with anything by Jonathan Green (Spellbreaker, Knights of Doom, Bloodbones, Curse of the Mummy, Howl of the Werewolf, Stormslayer, Night of the Necromancer). Those latter three in particular are just superb - some of the best FFs full stop.

The Stephen Hand trilogy is also highly recommended - Dead of Night, Legend of the Shadow Warriors, and Moonrunner.

And Vault of the Vampire might just be my favourite-ever FF.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 28 April, 2022, 01:16:21 PM
Night of the Necromancer is brilliant!

(I've also heard that Howl of the Werewolf was voted best FF book by fans, although I've not read it myself.)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 03 May, 2022, 09:49:09 AM
Started this purely for my own amusement as I play through the books I own, but thought it'd be of interest for some here:


(https://i.imgur.com/gEyGsd1.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 May, 2022, 10:36:25 AM
That is awesome. I also have a FF spreadsheet but this puts mine to shame: I'm tracking what I own per edition and if I've beaten it, tracking what actually killed you is some next level stuff. I'd be interested to see if you have a nemesis across all books.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 May, 2022, 10:41:41 AM
So this September it's Fighting Fantasy Fest 4, which is also the 40th anniversary celebration thing.

I've never been to once of these before - it's being held in Ealing and tickets are not cheap, but you get a load of gubbins with entry (programme, dice), it sounds fun and I'm really into the books at the moment so I've got myself a ticket. Right now it looks like I'm forcing my wife to tag along, but it'd be great to meet up with some of you guys there if you fancy it!

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fighting-fantasy-fest-4-tickets-331387457807
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 03 May, 2022, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 May, 2022, 10:36:25 AM
...tracking what actually killed you is some next level stuff. I'd be interested to see if you have a nemesis across all books.

Me too! That's basically why I started the spreadsheet. 😆

If you PM your email address I'll send you my template (and that goes for anyone else who fancies it).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 May, 2022, 11:47:50 AM
Incoming in a sec!
I'm been impressed with your restraint on giving up after death - I've finished all of mine so far, even if I've had to skip fights to do it (Snow Witch) or die over and over again until I have a good map (Dungeon)...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 03 May, 2022, 12:38:02 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 May, 2022, 11:47:50 AM
Incoming in a sec!
I'm been impressed with your restraint on giving up after death - I've finished all of mine so far, even if I've had to skip fights to do it (Snow Witch) or die over and over again until I have a good map (Dungeon)...

The thought of maxing stats or skipping fights causes me physical pain! I'm determined to do it all as God Ian and Steve intended, which means admitting I might not complete some in a hurry (if ever - like the imminent House of Hell!)

And I own so many gamebooks I've never yet played, I want to make sure I get to have a go at all of them before my enthusiasm wanes.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 May, 2022, 02:41:39 PM
You shame me.

I kind of figure that this might be my last serious run at these books (not for any sinister reason - just that my enthusiasm will definitely wane at some point also) and therefore I'd like to see the end of as many of them as possible.
I think of the nine I've played here, the only ones I've done first time have been Scorpion Swamp and Starship Traveller. I'm not sure many of them can be done without max stats, but skipping the battles in CotSW did make me feel a bit dirty...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 03 May, 2022, 03:12:30 PM
Enthusiasm wanes, but it also waxes. I thought I had played my last gamebook years ago, but I still kept about half of them, and this thread has got me back into them again. It's not even the first time that I've got back into them after a lengthy break. I gravitate back to them every few years. Something to consider before you flog them all on eBay.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 03 May, 2022, 05:36:01 PM
I'm not sure I'm actually capable of playing the books without finger-cheating. Hrmn ... maybe I'll try it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 03 May, 2022, 05:59:16 PM
You should be flogged or made to wear a hair shirt or something.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 03 May, 2022, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: Richard on 03 May, 2022, 03:12:30 PM
Enthusiasm wanes, but it also waxes. I thought I had played my last gamebook years ago, but I still kept about half of them, and this thread has got me back into them again. It's not even the first time that I've got back into them after a lengthy break. I gravitate back to them every few years. Something to consider before you flog them all on eBay.


This is about my fourth time of interest - first was during the original era - not sure of the exact date but the copyright info in my copy of Deathtrap Dungeon suggests the seventh printing in 1984.  Second was about five years later when i found somebody at school who really liked them (their favourite was Freeway Warrior), third was some time this century and fourth is now.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 May, 2022, 10:34:39 AM
Dare you enter the HOUSE OF HELL? I did, and it didn't end well! Read on!

My starting stats:

Skill 12 (yes!)
Stamina 20
Luck 10
Fear 8

The adventure begins with me stranded in the rain and looking for shelter in the titular hellhouse. Approaching the house, sodden and miserable, I see a light on at the rear of the property and squelch round to see if I can alert anyone there instead of ringing the main doorbell and waking the house up. There are two men in the kitchen, but their conversation is decidedly odd and a little sinister. To be honest it's at this point I should resign myself to a night in the car, but instead I decide against trying to enter here and go back round to the front where the butler coolly invites me in. As I wait in the hall I pass the time by examining the portraits only to get a horrible shock when one speaks to me! Dire warnings are imparted - not least against wine...

Before long Christopher Lee arrives with his butler and offers me dinner and a glass of brandy, which I drink, restoring my shaken FEAR score to its maximum. I'm offered a choice of wines, but I heed the portraits warning. Oddly the Earl joins me for a midnight roast dinner and tells me about his family history. I choose to follow my meal with cheese and coffee, which is the wrong choice as next thing I know I'm waking up bound in a strange room. HELP!

I'm soon free, but not without cutting myself badly on the broken windowpane. Thankfully the Earl has forgotten to lock the door, so I slip out onto the landing and head left. The Balthus room sounds unpleasant, as does the Diabolus room, so I avoid them. Looking out the window I receive a mysterious message. It seems that some - force - here in the house is trying to aid me? Returning to the landing I secure a sharp kitchen knife and some garlic, which comes in handy when I encounter a VAMPIRE. Luckily, I just chuck the garlic at him and escape via a scooby doo style revolving wall door and then a magic mirror, eventually ending up in the kitchen. Someone has left keys on the stove but when I grab them it turns out the stove is on - I burn my hand on red hot keys, my scream attracts the house residents who pile onto me. I am captured and meet an undefined but certainly sticky end.

For my second attempt I decide to restart after I picked up the knife. This time instead of going to face the vampire I return to the landing and continue creeping about: trying doors at random I getting a horrible shock when I open a door and a body falls out on me. When I've calmed down, I find another sinister barred bedroom where I look out the window, only to get an even nastier shock when I see a familiar face on a hanging corpse outside the window! By now my heart is pounding in my chest and my fear score at dangerous levels. I decide against going to bed (why would I even do this?) and instead return to prowling the corridors where I discover the Abbadon room. Remembering the clue I had earlier I enter and try to wake its sleeping occupant only to discover this is another corpse: the shock brings my Fear total to 8 and I die on the spot. My adventure ends here.



It's been a long time since I've had a bash at House of Hell. As a kid I really did NOT like this book: whilst not scary per se, I found the theme and art unpleasant and the book frustratingly hard. In particular I seem to recall there's no way to save the innocent district nurse, despite a friendly ghost telling you that you should, and if you try you get a slightly sneering 'you deserved that' paragraph before insta-death which rather stung.

Playing it now, I'm more into the theme - I prefer a fantastical one, but I'm more into the horror concept now than I was back then and approached it thinking I might appreciate it more. I'm not sure it's especially well executed however: looking at it critically it's a bit of a mishmash of Hammer Horror tropes all kind of stuck together and I think it would work better if it stuck to one concept - eg. the Satanists and / or the haunted house- and didn't bother with stuff like zombies or the vampire who seems very out of place. It reminded me of the first Resident Evil game where the plot is zombies and experiments but also there's stuff like a giant snake because we need to get more monsters in.
I really don't like the FEAR mechanic at all.

I still don't like the art: I've got more time for Ian Miller's cover but I find the interior art both grotesque and unevocative.

Mechanically it's definitely a book that needs mapping as I was quickly lost in the maze of rooms upstairs. It did seem quite fitting and interesting that up to both deaths I didn't face a single combat and in a way that's quite nice after the very hard fights in IotLK and CotSW. I seem to remember however that this book is amazingly difficult to complete.

Having gone to the trouble of completing every other book so far via multiple playthroughs and maps I should do the same here but it's the first book where I find myself not really interested in doing so. Having recently played the Night Shift gamebook I have to say that did the whole concept a lot better, both thematically and mechanically, (in fairness HoH was published 35 years prior to Night Shift). Will I return to the house? Probably. Perhaps mapping it out will reveal it's secrets and it's charm to me.

I always thought this was one of the most highly regarded FF books so it's interesting to see a few other guys here come out and say they don't like it either: I'd be interested to know why.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 May, 2022, 10:37:58 AM
Also this really bugged me: why is one type of wine drugged and not the other? And the same for only one of the post-dinner digestifs?
Given the implication is that I've been manipulated into the house (wrong directions / ghostly car crash) and that the evil Earl is going to use me as a sacrifice, you'd think it'd be easier to just drug everything on my plate and knock me right out rather than see which I take and risk me wandering about opening doors at random.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 04 May, 2022, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 04 May, 2022, 10:34:39 AM
Playing it now, I'm more into the theme - I prefer a fantastical one, but I'm more into the horror concept now than I was back then and approached it thinking I might appreciate it more. I'm not sure it's especially well executed however: looking at it critically it's a bit of a mishmash of Hammer Horror tropes all kind of stuck together...

The series dabbles a lot more with gothic horror as it goes on, but marries it very successfully with the fantasy theme (most of Stephen Hand and Jonathan Green's books, plus a lot of Keith Martin's.)

As a kid the horror ones were by far my favourite - but even then I didn't really like House of Hell. I'll try and pinpoint why in a few playthrough's time. Maybe the modern-day setting? Maybe because it was too damn hard to be any fun?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 04 May, 2022, 11:18:26 AM
A great write up as usual!

As a kid, I found the modern day setting very off-putting, although once you enter the house it stops being relevant. I hardly remember this book at all now, so reading it again should be interesting. I might still give book 9 a try first.

Interesting point about the randomly drugged wine. I'm going to assume that's down to the theme of giving the reader choices taking priority over plot or common sense. (But in the spirit of finding in-plot explanations for apparent errors, maybe a feature of the Satanists' evil religion is you have to give your victims a sporting chance?)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 04 May, 2022, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Richard on 04 May, 2022, 11:18:26 AM
I hardly remember this book at all now, so reading it again should be interesting. I might still give book 9 a try first.

Don't worry, you've not fallen behind. CotSW next for me, too.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Krakajac on 08 May, 2022, 10:46:35 AM
Thought I might make a small contribution to the thread.

My daughter is 2 - going on 3, so I figured I'd track down some game-books for when she gets older (I'm 51 and enjoyed them as a kid).  Yeah, an old Dad!

Thought I'd start with a gateway drug and track down the first 10 CYOA titles - all vintage.  Some very spooky-style illustrations by Paul Granger.  Should get her on the right path...

(https://i.imgur.com/kOurvK7m.jpg)

Once she's had her fill of CYOA - she can graduate to the first 5 of the Fighting Fantasy books - again all early editions.  Even obtained some nice fantasy-style D6's to pair with the books.

(https://i.imgur.com/yDTJiZ6m.jpg)

That should keep her out of trouble - and I can relive my youth at the same time.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Colin YNWA on 08 May, 2022, 10:53:17 AM
Ohhh we had 'The Cave of Time'. Am I right in thinking these didn't have a combat system? If so I think that's why we never (we being my brother and I) never got into them.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Krakajac on 08 May, 2022, 11:03:45 AM
Correct - no combat system.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 08 May, 2022, 03:47:52 PM
The other main difference is that CYOA books tend to be multiple linear branches and have lots of different endings, whereas FF books tend towards the complexity of side quests, but with a common core thread that leads towards a shared finale.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 May, 2022, 08:52:07 AM
I cut my gamebook teeth on those CYOA books, lovely to see them again. But look at those FF books - first editions? Glorious. Ace dice too!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Krakajac on 09 May, 2022, 09:36:24 AM
Thanks!

The FF's aren't 1st editions (although I think there might be one in there) - but they are the first versions published (no zig-zag line along the top, star-burst number on the front cover, etc.).

Interestingly, my edition of Warlock has a purple spine - as it was printed in Australia (where I live).

The dice - I sourced from AliExpress for a handful of dollars.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 May, 2022, 12:37:17 PM
They're beauties. I hope we're still on this board in a few years time so we can hear how they go down with your daughter.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 May, 2022, 12:37:58 PM
So, a quick diversion - being too scared to once again cross the Threshold of the Earl of Drumer, I instead returned to the Way of the Tiger to play the second book in the series, ASSASSIN!. This was another brand new read for me: I must have played the first book in the WotT series, Avenger, dozens of times and always loved it.

The books join together to form a coherent story: I'm the totally cool Ninja known as Avenger and in the last book I lived up to this moniker by avenging my father by killing off the villainous trio of Manse the Deathmage, Honoric, Marshal of the Legion of the Sword of Doom and Yaemon, grandmaster of the monks of the Scarlet Mantis, thus preventing a plot to bind my god, Kwon the Redeemer, in Inferno. There are no stats in this book but, as it follows on directly from my playthrough of Avenger, I begin with Kwon's Blessing, giving me slightly better fighting skills and an extra Ninja discipline. I am skilled in the deadly disciplines of Poison Needles, Arrow Cutting and Climbing, and my bonus skill (new for this book) is Acrobatics.

The tale opens evocatively as the previous one ended, with my standing over the fallen body of Yaemon on the rainswept rooftop of Quench-Heart keep. I have recovered the sacred scrolls of Kettsuin and am charged by Kwon to return them to the Temple of the Rock on the Island of Tranquil Dreams. And then immediately the adventure starts, with soldiers charging up the stairs and an immediate need to get out of dodge.
Fighting this many guys would be suicide, so using my ninja skills I flip over the wall and begin scaling the sheer surface. This may not have been the smartest move as the soldiers below pepper me with arrows: I am skilled enough to avoid them but have to duck in through a window. This is where the first callback to the previous book happens: I've been here previously, killing the denizens and freeing prisoners, so I know the terrain and am able to rush down the stairs and towards an escape route and exit the keep.
Free, I decide to push on to the city of Druath Glennan to take an opportunity to rest, but after stopping at an inn (presumably out of my ninja garb) for breakfast I am ambushed by a force the Monks of the Scarlet Mantis. Using my acrobatics I escape but by now it seems I am hunted at all turns, leading me to attempt to lose pursuit in the forbidding Goblins Teeth Mountains.

Turns out the Goblins Teeth Mountains are infested with none other than Goblins: foul creatures who, it seems, worship some kind of Lovecraftian horror. I soon find myself in their tunnels, slinking about, but before long I am spotted by a sharp-eyed little Goblin nipper and once again the pursuit is on. This is where it all starts going wrong for me: I duck into a doorway but end up being trapped by the Goblins in a tunnel swiftly filling with water. With no escape I am forced to call upon Kwon for aid (this is a one-use reward for beating the previous book), enabling me to escape this fate only to find myself facing something far worse: an appalling Shoggoth-like entity, all eyes and tentacles, dwelling deep beneath the mountain on Goblin sacrifices - evocatively shown by a half-digested Goblin hanging from a rope above it, missing legs like something from Deep Star Six. Remembering my training I am able to resist the horrible lure of the primordial thing - my poison needles buy me a second and I am able to use my acrobatics to escape, fleeing up the rope the Goblins used to deliver their own sacrifices to the creature.

This is my final encounter in the mountains: I break free of their oppressive embrace and strike out towards the Sea of the Star. My pursuers do not seem to be close, but I have a new problem to consider: a terrible black rash spreading across my chest and arms. I encounter a hapless group of crusaders battling an undead warlord: this is my first dice-fuelled fight of the book and a very nasty one, but I prevail and in return they assist with both the wounds I have suffered and the plague I picked up in the Goblin tunnels, although it looks like I miss out on a powerful artifact. I take my leave of the adventurers and head East towards the port, sticking to the woodlands in case I am still pursued where I battle and slay members of the Legion of the Sword of Doom, carrying orders to kill me, and reach the port of Harith and am immediately waylaid by three infamous killers - a friend of whom I killed in the previous book. I swiftly down two of them (non-fatally) without dice rolls, which is  lucky as a poor defense roll sees the third stick his sword into my lung for a massive 8 damage and before the fight can continue a new challenger approaches in the form of some hideous cross between Mortal Kombat Goro and a centipede. Although this fight looks horrific on paper, which the enemy rocking a huge number of hit points and technically able to kill me with one hit, I use a technique learned in the previous book to down it in reasonably short order, leaving me battered and bleeding but triumphant - or am I? Defeating this horror has, it seems, opened a portal between my world of Orb and THE VOID. Oops...

My next stop is the port of Wargrave Abbas where I am able to stop over at a temple of Kwon and learn of the city and it's guilds of swordmasters and assassins - but these are evil assassins, who kill for money and not to rid the world of evil (unlike me). Here I am given the opportunity to head over to the assassins guild to learn some new techniques but this seems a daft move: I am proved right when an assassin attempts to take my life within the walls of the temple itself but I deflect their blade with my arrow cutting skills. The killer escapes, and I make my way by boat to the Island of Plenty, meeting friendly faces along the way. Here I agree to assist the Daiymo in battle: I am delayed by a recue sidequest, but when I arrive he has won his battle anyway and we have a lovely dinner together - all looks well for my journey home, but my sense of hope is misplaced. I awake at night with a terrible feeling of wrongness. Silently I slip of my room, checking in with the guards and all seems well... but is it? I cannot shake the feeling of wrongness and retracing my steps I find the guards murdered by methods not unlike my own. A dangerous game of cat and mouse ensues, one I sadly lose as the rival ninja, a follower of the deadly Way of Scorpion, steals up behind me and slips a garotte over my neck, ending me the ay I have ended so many others.

This book absolutely ruled. It's packed with world building detail - I probably said this when discussing Avenger! but with these early FF books we're just starting to get hints of a coherent world, but here the world of Orb feels fully formed and the writing is peppered with detail irrelevant to the adventure itself but really bringing the surroundings to life. The writing is really strong throughout. There's plenty of callbacks to the previous book - not just the plot but other nice little nods and returning characters, both major and minor. The concept of legging it back home is totally different to the first books quest for revenge, and in the early chapters I really did feel under pressure to escape. I'm a huge fan of the fight mechanic, and the book is also very generous with its Endurance (Stamina) recovery which means it can have a number of small set pieces where your life feels seriously in danger before topping your health up again and moving on, avoiding the slow stamina drain of FF. In short it all feels rather epic and I can't wait to have another crack.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 09 May, 2022, 01:37:25 PM
That actually sounds really good, I might have to try these books!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 May, 2022, 02:11:05 PM
I hope I haven't bigged it up too much! But I am really enjoying them.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 09 May, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
You know FF 11 is by the same authors and set in the same world?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 May, 2022, 04:05:06 PM
I do, although that's another I haven't played yet. Google tells me they also did Sword of the Samurai.

I have played a few of their Duelmaster books, which are set on the world of Orb and I really liked. I've still got a couple of sets, but finding someone to play with nowdays isn't easy  :(
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 09 May, 2022, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 09 May, 2022, 02:11:05 PM
I hope I haven't bigged it up too much! But I am really enjoying them.

Love those books.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 May, 2022, 09:38:09 AM
Assassin! Redux

I enjoyed my run at Assassin so much I had another couple of goes at it late yesterday.

I didn't keep as good a set of notes but I did get killed twice more (by the Goblin King and by a disguised assassin) and nearly blew myself up with a magic ring before finishing.

The biggest change from my previous attempt that I decide not to do the rescue quest, which waylaid me from aiding the Daimyo on the Isle of Plenty. This is a bit of switch as previously in the book the better paths tend to reward being helpful, as benefits my status as a good-aligned monk. Instead the Daimyo sends soldiers to help the villagers and I head off for a neat little double assassination mission. This was a lot of fun as I had to sneak into the camp and murder the enemy army leader and his lieutenant, and was probably the better route as I was in better health (and indeed was able to receive healing after the mission) which I needed for the absolutely excellent cinematic fight with the Way of the Scorpion ninja that more or less wraps up the book.

I've enjoyed these so much, I'm not sure why they never reached a larger audience. From the art there seems to be another undersea segment that I haven't seen, possibly accessible by not going through the mountains? Speaking of art this is probably the weakest thing in the book, but it's consistent across the two I've played which is cool.
One thing I really like is that there's no 'do you have item x, if not game over' moment. Having certain items or skills makes your life a lot easier, and you can definitely box yourself into a point where a lack of a certain skill means death, but there seems to be a lot more freedom of choice and build.
A note on skills - Poison Needles is much less useful in this book than in book 1, but I did still get to use it for a key assassination. In book 1 it seemed I was constantly being asked if I had Acrobatics, hence choosing it here: this time Feign Death, Immunity to Poison and Lockpicking all seemed to crop up a few times, whereas climbing was mainly useless.
Also 'Eyes glistening with unshed tears' is one of my favourite bits of description from the book.

I am going to try and pick up a copy of Usurper. Because I had an original of book 1 I bought an old version of book 2, but I kind of wish I'd gone for the reprints as the older ones look to start getting expensive around this point in the series. The hardback versions look glorious, but also unobtainable without a second mortgage...

In the meantime, it's back to the House of Hell I think.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 18 May, 2022, 11:16:01 AM
Caverns of the Snow Witch

Well, this book is WILD! I knew it had a reputation as a difficult one, and I would need a decent Skill to get me through – and I roll up 11. Nice! That'll do it. Stamina 14 is not so nice. Luck 7 is truly abysmal. Truly, what the FF Gods give with one hand they take away with the other. As usual, SPOILERS follow...

The Playthrough

So this time I'm a troubleshooter and sword-for-hire escorting a caravan through the frozen far north of Allansia. It doesn't sound much, but this is a veritable bonanza of character development compared to the likes of the protagonist from say, Forest of Doom, who aimlessly wander Titan composing erotic poetry about their own sword. Very soon, I get given a mini-mission all my own – track and kill the yeti who slaughtered an outpost garrison. My character demands a purse of 50 gold if he's successful – I like that he knows his worth! Suddenly it clicks – this is the same guy who just survived Scorpion Swamp, of course, trading on his new celebrity. Well, fair play; it took me enough attempts to get a win on that one!

A brace of SNOW WOLVES are the first enemy to test me, hurling themselves out of the snows in a flurry of teeth and claws just after I've used some Luck rolls to cross an ice bridge. The last enemy I killed in Scorpion Swamp was a wolf, so it seems fitting that it's the first I encounter here. They only get a couple of hits in, but this means I'm only on 10 Stamina, so I munch some provisions to take me back up to 14. A blizzard descends on me not long after. Opting to take shelter in an igloo, I'm told I have to eat another two lots of provisions to keep warm (with no health gain!) A pattern is already emerging that I'm none too keen on...

Soon after I find a trapper's hut and help myself to a Warhammer and a spear. Which is just as well, because the trapper himself is a little further up the slopes, and he's found... the YETI. I'm too late to stop him being cut down (which will surprise nobody who's ever read a gamebook), so I hurl the spear and get stuck in. I've fought mightier foes, but the dice rolls don't entirely go my way, and I'm forced to use Luck to stave off death in the final few rounds; I'm barely on my feet by the time the mighty beast rolls over into the snow – a mere 1 Stamina, in fact! Boy, do I feel that I've earned every one of those 50 gold pieces...

(https://i.imgur.com/iDcEf54.jpg?1)

The mauled trapper is breathing his last – I know exactly how he feels – but in best narrative tradition he has just enough strength to monologue about the nearby Caverns, home to a Snow Witch marshalling an army and apparently planning to bring a new Ice Age down on Allansia. During his dying exposition, I wolf down another few provisions to take my stamina up to a still-measly 9, meaning I've already used half my rations up – and I haven't even gotten to the Caverns! One avalanche later, I do – but I've had to take another Luck roll to survive it unscathed. So here I am about to start the adventure proper, and I'm down to 5 rations, 6 Luck and 9 Stamina. Even for an Ian Livingstone book, this seems... excessive.

The first encounter I have within the Caverns is a Wood Elf, who asks why I'm not wearing my 'obedience collar,' pointing to the collar around his own neck. One of the options I'm given is to say that I'm having my collar widened because I've put on weight recently. This makes me laugh so much that I have to choose it as my option, just to see what the reaction is! Astoundingly, he believes me – but our conversation leads him to curse his own collar and the Snow Witch herself. I'm forced to watch helplessly as the collar cripples him with pain, for which I lose another Luck point [I'm not sure why – it isn't as though this was my fault. Perhaps because the Snow Witch now knows I'm coming...?]

And so of course, in the next corridor I start falling into a pit in the floor. I can hardly even see the point of rolling to see if I'm Lucky or Unlucky at this point, but I duly do so, and – oh what a surprise, I failed it, and now I have to lose another Luck point for my efforts. I've never played a gamebook where I burnt through my Luck so damn quickly. This could easily be the end of the adventure – waiting around in the pit indefinitely for the Snow Witch's minions to come and finish me off. Instead, two GOBLINS are sent to fetch me, gloating from the pit edge and demanding I throw my sword to them before they let me up. (I can't lie; it is a tad insulting that a pair of bloody gobbos are apparently all that the force the Snow Witch thinks I merit – but then I am half-dead on my feet, covered in blood and gore – some mine, some not – gobbling sandwiches hand over fist just to stay alive. Perhaps you can't blame her.) I reluctantly throw them my sword, and they let down a rope. I am apparently so underwhelming a foe, so supremely lacking in menace, that they don't even bother to tie my hands or anything on the march through the caverns – so I take the opportunity to kick one in the unmentionables, and fight the other. [Here's a rare error in the gamebook. As the goblins now have my sword, the book tells me I have to fight with a -3 handicap for being weaponless – but I'm not, because I've still got the trapper's Warhammer].

I end up in a vast cavern full of hooded henchmen praying to some almighty, hellish ice sculpture. I attempt to tiptoe past them all and out of a side door – with one Luck point left and two die to roll, you can imagine how well that goes. The alarm is raised, and the statue begins to creak to life – I knew I was going to end up fighting that bloody thing the moment I saw it... I go into the fight against the ICE DEMON on 12 stamina, and come out on 4. Yup, that's about par for the course for this day. Come back Scorpion Swamp, all is forgiven.

(https://i.imgur.com/w36GE2i.png?1)

Quite a lot now happens in short succession, [building, I think, to the end of the original magazine version  of the story which the gamebook was later extended from]. I rescue a dwarf, who gives me a sling and an ominous warning to 'beware the white rat.' An Illusionist tries to bamboozle me with the old 'Which is the real me' mirage, but I make a lucky stab at exactly the right one. Smashing the crystal that was obviously the source of his power, I'm rather baffled to find that a Genie, of all things, emerges from it. He seems weirdly out of place here in the ice caves, but sod it – he offers to come to my aid and get me past one enemy when I most need it. There's a FROST GIANT in the next room. Thankfully I avoid fisticuffs, as the dwarf's sling places a lead ball straight between his eyes and takes him out bloodlessly. For my troubles I pick up a magic ring that will summon a warrior to fight in my stead! In the next room I have to fight a CRYSTAL WARRIOR, [at which point the gamebook remembers that I have the Warhammer]. It's been a rough start, and I'm still not in a good way, but the Snow Queen's minions are now falling like ninepins before me. Maybe I do have the ghost of a chance here...

In the room beyond that is a creepy stone sarcophogaus, and perched upon it, the white rat I was told to beware of – although what help the warning was supposed to be, I don't know. I'm not even given an opportunity to avoid it. The rat immediately runs over, and transforms before my bewildered eyes into... a WHITE DRAGON. A freakin' dragon. I have no time to think about how little sense this makes before I'm in the fight of my life. I use the magic ring to summon a Dwarf warrior, but as he's only Skill 7 (against the dragon's 12) he does exactly no damage before the lizard's blasted him to a greasy spot on the floor. Then it's my turn. I last a little longer, but not long enough.

Lights out. Where was my bloody genie when I needed him?!

(https://i.imgur.com/9ltaBMq.jpg?1)

The Verdict
After all of Scorpion Swamp's laudable attempts to innovate, we're firmly back in familiar territory here. Even more so, in fact – once the titular caverns are reached early on, CotSW is essentially another of Sir Ian's beloved dungeon crawls, complete with plenty of uninteresting 'will you go left-or-right' paragraphs. That said, it's packed full of incident and rarely fails to be exciting, and the unique setting (as with Island of the Lizard King) really makes this one sing. It feels like a more successful redux of Firetop Mountain, in many ways.

It has two main faults. The first doesn't especially matter – it's that there's a little too much that doesn't really make sense (the misplaced genie, the dragon that for some reason turns into a rat, the sorceress who is also a vampire...). The other does, and given that this is a Sir Ian book, it'll be of no surprise to learn that it's just too bloody hard! It's a fairly relentless barrage of Luck rolls and Skill +10 enemies. Shame, because this one could have been a contender.

A unique setting, an unusual structure and superbly individual artwork lifting another often unfair dungeon crawl – 8 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 May, 2022, 01:54:04 PM
Great write up as usual! That art really is spectacular! (Although the Yeti does look a bit silly.) I really must start this book this week.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 May, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
Superb stuff Jimbo!
That genie is totally useless.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 18 May, 2022, 02:51:30 PM
Right? If a Skill 12 dragon doesn't warrant his intervention, what on earth is the point?

Still tempted to take another run or two at it - I'm aware it's very much a gamebook of two halves, and I've never yet made it to the second!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 May, 2022, 04:00:25 PM
By the time you get to the rat-dragon the genie is superfluous sadly. He really hacks me off because he basically says 'if you're in trouble, I'll help!' when he should actually say 'if you're in trouble in a very, very specific manner and circumstance, I'll help!' because that's what he's actually all about. Grr!

You should totally have another run at it dude!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 May, 2022, 09:16:17 PM
Caverns of the Snow Witch

Well, I got precisely one encounter further than Dark Jimbo before perishing! Here's how it went.

I start with Skill 12, suprisingly, and Stamina 19. Unfortunately I only get 7 Luck points, so I choose the Potion of Luck.

Setting off after the Yeti, I avoid the ice bridge over the crevasse because I just assume nothing good will come of crossing it. I encounter a woolly mammoth with 10 skill points, which at the start of the adventure feels a little harsh, but with my own amazing stats I make short work of him. I then trudge through a blizzard, losing two stamina points before I take the hint and stop to build an igloo for shelter. After the blizzard subsides, I enter a cabin and basically treat it like it's my own place, like one of the bears in the Goldilocks tale. I eat someone's food and steal his weapons, a spear and a warhammer. But he won't be needing all that stuff anyway, because I find him just in time to witness him being killed by the Yeti.

I attack the Yeti with the spear, which reduces its skill from 11 to 10 (as I learn later by looking to see what would have happened if I hadn't -- it's not really cheating if I've already made my choice!), and then kill it in a fight, by the end of which my Stamina has been reduced to 12. (Foolishly, I forget to eat anything after the fight, for which I will kick myself later on when it is suddenly reduced to 6.) I avoid an avalanche by successfully testing my Luck, and find the entrance to the Caverns of the title. I am immediately asked to choose between turning left or right, with no information about either option. Fuck you, Sir Ian! I go left.

I meet the Elf with the obedience collar, and basically make the exact same choices as Jimbo because I forgot what he told us about this bit. So in the course of this encounter I lose 2 Luck points, and I now have a Luck score of 4! I drink the Potion of Luck, which increases my Luck score to a massively underwhelming 8.

This time, the next choice of direction tells me that there are footsteps running towards me from one way, so I cautiously head the other way and fall into a pit. Losing half my Stamina, I regret my failure to eat any provisions since fighting the Yeti. I manage to escape from the Goblins who pull me out of the pit at a cost of 2 more Stamina points, so I decide to investigate the kitchen, where a friendly gnome gives me some cake. That only restores one Stamina point, so I eat my own provisions as well, restoring my Stamina to a still pretty nerve-wracking 9, just in time to meet an enormous Ice Demon. I assume I'm about to get absolutely clobbered by it, but luckily it's just a statue, and I only have to deal with the weirdos who are worshipping it. I just run away from them.

At the next junction, I head in the direction some cries for help are coming from, and I rescue the Dwarf. He gives me a sling and some iron balls, and then we part ways. I eat some more provisions, and then head off to meet my next encounter, some dipshit illusionist. I fuck his shit up, meet the pointless Genie, and leave via the door in the shape of a skull.

I am now in a room occupied by a Frost Giant who, as far as I can tell, hasn't seen me and who has done me no wrong. I could just sneak past him. But as this is an Ian Livingstone book, I assume I will probably need to steal his stuff, so I unethically knock him out with the sling and an iron ball and search his gaff. I find three rings. The first one I choose gives me the power to resist the freezing cold, which is obviously quite handy in the ice caverns. I assume that at least one of the other two rings must be a booby prize, so I decide not to push my luck any further and I leave them.

The next encounter is with the Crystal Warrior, who is invulnerable to edged weapons. That's fine, I think, as I wield my trusty warhammer. But I am actually penalized for having the hammer, because now I have to fight it, and it has 11 Skill points and more Stamina than I do -- whereas if I didn't have a hammer (or if I was given the option of doing something else), the Genie would have come along and made me invisible and I wouldn't have had to fight it at all! Fucking Genie! Fucking Ian!

The fight is quite brutal, and I only just survive. I stagger, bleeding and concussed, to a junction where I have to choose again between left and right with no information about either. Left went badly for me last time (the goblins' pit), so I go right. I meet a zombie with Skill 6, Stamina 6, the easiest fight in the whole book so far, and I am given the option to Escape, also for the first time. This seems suspicious to me, as whenever a gamebook is this keen to give you every opportunity to leave, it usually means you are in the right place. The illustration of the zombie also shows lots of stuff behind him. So I fight him, win easily, and come across an absolute goldmine of wicked stuff! I'm only allowed to take three things with me. Do the four dragons' eggs count as one item or four? To be on the safe side I write "Dragon egg(s)" on my Equipment List. I also take some garlic, because I remember from my original playthrough that the Snow Witch is a vampire, and a jar containing some ground minotaur horn, because it sounds like the kind of thing that might be an ingredient of some healing potion or something, and I remember that there's a guy called "the Healer" later on in the book so it might come in useful?

I eat some more provisions, so I now have 9 Stamina points. In the next room I encounter the White Rat the Dwarf warned me to watch out for, and I am asked if I have any ground minotaur horn! I do! I sprinkle some over the rat as it is beginning to transform into something else (the dragon that did for Jimbo, although the text doesn't tell me that), and it stops the transformation and forces the rat back into its original shape. We've made progress guys!

In the very next paragraph I encounter the Snow Witch! She's a vampire, and I have some garlic to ward her off, but I don't have any vampire-killing weapons to fight her with. She overcomes her fear of garlic, and it's an instant death paragraph for me!

This is quite a fun book, and it has some really good illustrations, the wood-cut effect is pretty cool. I'll give it another go soon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 23 May, 2022, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Richard on 23 May, 2022, 09:16:17 PM
Fuck you, Sir Ian!

An appropriate response. It should be the official Fighting Fantasy battle cry.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 May, 2022, 02:03:31 PM
Sir Ian would doubtless respond by asking us if we had three implausible objects, before telling us 'your abuse ends here'

Excellent writeup Richard and a really fun read! I'm impressed we basically all died at the same point.
Having played the book several times to finish it I think the first bit is the best bit (although strictly speaking the art is the actual best bit)
I'm playing HoH still - I've started mapping it as it's very easy to get turned about in there. I WILL finish it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 24 May, 2022, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 24 May, 2022, 02:03:31 PM
Sir Ian would doubtless respond by asking us if we had three implausible objects, before telling us 'your abuse ends here!'

🤣

Great write-up, Richard! Every time I start writing a new one I wonder why I'm doing it to myself, but then other people's are so much fun to read!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 May, 2022, 04:53:55 PM
Thanks guys!

By the way, Steve Jackson's new book Secrets of Salamonis will be illustrated by the prog's Tazio Bettin!

https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/fighting-fantasy-the-secrets-of-salamonis-fighting-fantasy/steve-jackson/paperback/9781407188492.html
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 24 May, 2022, 08:21:06 PM
Quote from: Richard on 24 May, 2022, 04:53:55 PM
By the way, Steve Jackson's new book Secrets of Salamonis will be illustrated by the prog's Tazio Bettin!

https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/fighting-fantasy-the-secrets-of-salamonis-fighting-fantasy/steve-jackson/paperback/9781407188492.html

That is extremely cool news! The new artwork for the Scholastic editions has been generally awful.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 May, 2022, 01:33:13 AM
I got distracted by making node maps and so never really got going in the right order on this project. Also, I was curious about Jimbo's approach. To that end, I've gone back to play the first book - with one chief advantage - which is that I node-mapped it a few months ago and (even though I haven't looked back at the map) I do know the correct route through the dungeon (and that it follows a simple rule), and I've built that foreknowledge into my roleplay.


The Warlock of Firetop Mountain

Skill: 12      
Stamina: 18      
Luck: 9
Potion of Fortune


Well, I can't help it if I'm attracted to married women, can I? And they can't help themselves in return, which leads to ... trouble. My dueling skills have kept me alive, and many widowed – but when it comes to gambling, my luck has not held, and I find myself under pressure from my creditors – to such an extent that my sword arm won't quite cut it.

Frankly, I'm in need of a windfall, and I've heard of a chap who's sitting on more than his fair share of treasures – all I need do is persuade him to share it. To shore up my wayward luck, I've invested the last of my coin in a Potion of Fortune – which the hag in Anvil swears is blessed by Sindla herself. Luck is one thing, but surety is worth more, and to that end I spoke with a seer who swore he witnessed events both past and future. In return for a solemn promise he told me that I should follow my sword arm to find what I seek – which I've taken to mean holding a right hand course throughout the legendary maze I now approach.

Firetop Mountain is two miles from the backwater civilization of Anvil, which might explain Zagor's rather lax security, which consists of some skulls on poles. Looks like the work of orcs, which ties in with the rumors back in Anvil. I swagger in, smash down a door and fall head first into a midden. It's this kind of thing that makes me doubt the wisdom of seers, but in for a penny, in for a mark. Continuing my trademark lack of luck, I then awake an orc sentry despite my best efforts to sneak past, and run the ugly brute through in what was, frankly, a dismal martial display on his part.

Not to bore you, but I went through the orc guard quarters like a dose, finding a paltry gold piece, a bronze key, an incantation to defeat evil dragons (or perhaps the ravings of a lunatic – hopefully I'll never find out) and a well-made shortbow with a single silver arrow. Keeping to my right-hand rule I move deeper into the tunnels, freeing a lunatic from his captivity and revenging a dead dwarf by killing his torturers.

Beyond a sturdy portcullis I find myself beyond the orc quarters in less trammeled hallways – and it's here that my greed lands me in a spot of bother with an animated iron cyclops! Perhaps the battering I received was worth it, as the jewel I pried from the bludgeoning automaton seems valuable and inside the now-still workings of the brute I discovered a second of the rumored keys to an even greater promise of treasure. After a brief skirmish with a poorly trained dullard sporting a battle axe (with, I must say, some apparent difficulty in the cramped conditions) I found myself briefly entranced by a portrait of Zagor, the warlock whose treasure I seek! As his evil magic drained my will, in desperation I held aloft the jewel I had wrested from the iron golem and this instinct proved well for me, as it broke the spell and made me chance that I had lucked upon an artefact of some significance in the battle to come.

Having survived an attack by an animate rope, I am starting to wonder if my provisions have been tampered with – yet the burns on my arm seem real enough. Not helping my grip on reality, as in the legends, I come upon a black river beneath the earth, with multiple methods of passage, all foreboding ill. Short on funds for the advertised ferryman, I trust to my skill and take to a poled raft – but take care to sup a draft of my potion prior to my endeavor. Despite the dark, swirling waters and the deliberations of the raft to ditch me, I stumble upon the north bank, only to discover signs of the undead – is this warlock a necromancer?

I am bludgeoned from behind and stunned cold for a moment before coming to in a room packed with zombies intent on my demise – as you might imagine they are no match for my sword arm, despite my concussion, and I quickly dismember them. A poor wretch who fell victim to these unfeeling vagabonds carried with him a silver crucifix and, as luck would have it, an enchanted blade superior to my own!

My new found confidence is soon shattered as I enter a dank crypt replete with several coffins. Given the other signs of necromantic control in this area (skeletons building boats and zombie thuggery) it seems more than clear that I should move quickly through this area to the nearest exit – and yet! What of keys, and the chance of treasure? Naturally, a vampiric figure rises from its slumber and attempts to dominate my will – I scrabble in my pack for the wooden stakes I found earlier and strike it through the heart, hoping to end its evil reign – and even though its body crumbles to dust before my eyes, some part of it survives in the form of a bat and flies away to regain its strength.

Moving on through the hallways beyond the crypt I fight a maggot-ridden ghoul and recover an old, worn map of The Maze of Zagor, whatever that may be. The maze of passageways beyond do not befriend tarrying, and I am set upon by a clumsy troll, before finding myself playing cards with four dwarves – this is my penance, for whenever I find myself in even moderate coin, gambling seems to materialize around me. True to form, I leave my purse lighter, thus reiterating the original need for this entire mission. My recent companions let me know that I am indeed within the maze for which I have a somewhat ruined map, and should continue my course. Of interest, their directions fit with the directions from the seer, and I aim to maintain my right-hand course.

I do wonder, though – this course has led me to a furious minotaur, although my enchanted blade makes short work of him and I receive only a nick from his brutish horns. Traversing the maze I even meet the Mazemaster, who tries to trick me and send me back the way I have already been. I felt that perhaps that would be all the wiser as I was confronted by a large dragon nesting in a high cavern, but I recalled the incantation I had read earlier and, in desperation, chanted it. Much to my surprise and delight, this seemed to set the beast aflame by its own fire, and it charged away in some bellows of agony.

Moments later I enter an inner sanctum and come face to face with the warlock, who flits around the room like a nonchalant humming bird, oozing malice, and seemingly unperturbed by my intrusion. Recalling how his portrait's willpower wilted in the presence of the jeweled eye of the cyclopean golem, I brandish it aloft and a magical beam ages the magician to naught but a smear on the floor beneath his robes. Well, I wasn't expecting that! With the warlock's bizarre demise, I am left to seek his fabled treasure, and am not disappointed to find a large chest, bound by magicks, with three ornate locks. I hold three ornate keys, and so the treasure, and perhaps the mountain itself is now mine! Of course, the safest thing to do would be to pay off my creditors as soon as possible – they are not known as mere trifles. On the other hand, my luck recently has improved...


Post-Match Interview

Starting with a Skill of 12 makes this book pretty straightforward, despite a below average stamina and luck. By the end I hadn't needed more than two provisions (even skipping a couple of offered meals), had only quaffed half my Fortune potion and had picked up a magic sword!

The real key is knowing that (in this version of the text, at any rate) you follow the right-hand maze rule, and it takes you all the way to the end with the correct keys. That's with the caveat of exploring all doors, even if they are on the left. The only issue that cropped up was not having enough money to call the ferryman (I had only 1GP at that point), so opting for the dangerous raft instead.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 26 May, 2022, 11:28:31 AM
I love that you stuck to your keep right advice, even knowing IRL that your first right turn was the wrong way!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 26 May, 2022, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Richard on 26 May, 2022, 11:28:31 AM
I love that you stuck to your keep right advice, even knowing IRL that your first right turn was the wrong way!

I always find it hard to know how to play that sort of foreknowledge (usually gained from a previous playthrough). If I know that a given choice is not a great one, but my character would realistically have no way of knowing... what do I do?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 May, 2022, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 26 May, 2022, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Richard on 26 May, 2022, 11:28:31 AM
I love that you stuck to your keep right advice, even knowing IRL that your first right turn was the wrong way!

I always find it hard to know how to play that sort of foreknowledge (usually gained from a previous playthrough). If I know that a given choice is not a great one, but my character would realistically have no way of knowing... what do I do?

I'd considered the notion of flipping a coin whenever you're at a blind "east/west" type choice, but they even say in the books themselves that you should take notes and it'll take multiple goes to reach the 400. I figure you can roleplay that in as "rumors in a local tavern", or whatever.

As mentioned by the local innkeeper, those Ganjees are right bastards!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 26 May, 2022, 05:51:15 PM
Yes, the best way to deal with the Ganjees is not to visit the Citadel in the first place!

Caverns of the Snow Witch -- playthrough 2

This time I max out my stats, and follow the same route I took last time, up to the elf with the obedience collar in the Caverns. This time that encounter goes better, and he gives me his cloak to disguise myself, and tells me which way to go at the next junction so I don't fall into the goblins' pit.

This means I get to go straight to the kitchen, where despite the hospitality of the chef I decide to murder the kitchen staff for no real reason, and then burgle the place. This turns out to be a good move, because I find the artifact I needed to kill the Snow Witch last time but didn't have. Hooray! I also find a flute.

Next up is the Ice Demon, and because I have the elf's cloak nobody bothers me. I rescue the annoying dwarf again, and he gives me the weapon I will need to defeat the giant later. I then meet the Illusionist, and this time I have an option I didn't have before -- to bluff my way past him by pretending I'm on my way to play the flute for the Snow Witch's entertainment. This backfires somewhat, as he tells me that to get to the Snow Witch I must take the left door, but I don't want to do that! I want to take the central door, since that route worked pretty well last time. After some pondering, I decide to fight him. But this time I manage to correctly guess which of the three images is my real opponent, and I defeat him without loss of stamina.  I follow my tried and tested route to the Snow Witch, and easily kill her with the rune stick I stole from the kitchen.

So far this adventure has been a roaring success. I even defeated the Crystal Warrior really easily, who clobbered me so badly last time. I still have high scores. I easily beat the next encounter, a magical sentinel who is guarding the Snow Witch's treasure. I am given the option to steal up to 600 gold pieces, at the cost of discarding one item of equipment for every 50 gold pieces. I identify seven items which I have already used or appear to be useless, and take 350 gold pieces! (I suspect that how much treasure I take will not really matter in the grand scheme of things, it's probably just a devious trick to make me get rid of something important, but I think I've been careful! Anyway, money is the whole reason I came here, so it wouldn't really make sense for me to leave empty handed.)

The book moves into the next phase: escaping from the caverns, with my two new acquaintances, an elf called Redswift and a dwarf called Stubb. They are not particularly helpful,* but their presence does sort of add a sense of a plot developing. (They last a lot longer than poor old Mungo from FF7!) But from this point on, my fortune changes and I start to fuck up. Within just a few more paragraphs I have lost 3 skill points and 12 stamina! I then pick up a dagger which turns out to be a magic booby-trap, and it forces me to stab myself to death, despite the completely ineffectual efforts of my two crappy companions trying to disarm me.

* There's even an encounter where the book says I tell them to leave this fight to me and they can go on ahead, and instead of saying "no, all for one and one for all!" they just fuck off and leave me to it. Then when I catch them up they have both fallen into a trap. Twats.

Playthrough 3

Rather than start again, I just go back to where I found the dagger, and I leave it well the fuck alone. Next I am compelled to share my provisions with Redswift and Stubb, who haven't done anything to earn them. Then there's another "left or right?" choice with no info about either, and I head right purely on the basis that that has been working well enough so far. We find a parchment written in another language, which only Redswift can read, and he looks very troubled and won't tell us what's wrong. (This is presumably [spoiler]the Death Spell[/spoiler] which we will learn about in phase 3 of the book.) But I never find out what that's all about, because the very next encounter is the bloody Snow Witch again! Although physically deceased, her spirit now resides in a globe, and this scene is the one depicted in the front cover of the Puffin edition. I watch her kill the orc in that picture, and then I fail a skill roll and she instantly kills me!

Playthrough 4

Carrying on from where I died, I assume that I pass the skill roll, and I attack the Snow Witch. My attack is completely ineffective. She conjures up two zombie replicas of Redswift and Stubb, who both have 9 skill points -- the same as my drastically reduced skill score -- and more stamina than me. The result is a foregone conclusion, and I am killed again.

I could have easily got further than this if I hadn't lost three skill points getting here. I'm not sure I've ever come across a more brutal penalty in a gamebook before! This one is tough.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 28 May, 2022, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Richard on 26 May, 2022, 05:51:15 PM
They last a lot longer than poor old Mungo from FF7!

Too soon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 28 May, 2022, 10:51:22 PM
So instead of attempting a fifth play through of Caverns, I just read the book from where I died last time. If you manage to defeat the witch you progress to phase three, which is an interesting story where once you leave the caverns you have to [spoiler]find a man called the Healer to break the Death Spell you unfortunately picked up earlier.[/spoiler] This takes you to Stonebridge and eventually to Firetop Mountain, while also mentioning Fang and Deathtrap Dungeon. I liked the nods to other books. But it's quite an unfair book, as there are a couple of paragraphs where if you make rational decisions they lead to an instant death paragraph quite a bit later on. That's quite off-putting for me, so I'm not going to try and complete the book properly.

Despite that criticism, it's still quite a fun book, and as I've said before, I like the art, and the companions who join you for the middle part.

I then moved on to House of Hell. I started with maximum stats, went through the front door, got drugged unconscious and woke up to find myself tied up. I escaped and wandered around the first floor for a bit, exploring every room, until I died of fright.

Instead of attempting a second play through, I just carried on reading until I eventually figured out the One True Path through the book -- and there really is only one, from which you cannot deviate at all. This is a phenomenally hard book! I can see why it's unpopular (and it's a shame, because it is well written). There is one paragraph you have to get to early on, and if you don't you are unavoidably killed much, much later on in the book. It feels unfair that you can make so much progress after that point while having already lost. There are so many things you have to do which are indispensable to success, as well as a left or right? choice where you have a 50% chance of losing. Given that these are books for children (as much as I still love them), I think this one would have benefited from a little more editorial interference to make it a bit easier or fairer. To legitimately complete it without cheating and reading around would take a huge number of play throughs.

I'm going to stop here for a little while. I don't have FF11, but once someone else has done that one, I'll resume with FF12.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 29 May, 2022, 12:46:26 PM
Have been looking at House of Hell a bit more today, and have worked out that the minimum number of Fear points you can pick up on the way to paragraph 400 is nine. Given that your maximum capacity for Fear is between 7 and 12, you have a 50% chance of losing with a die roll before you even turn to paragraph 1!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: I, Cosh on 29 May, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 May, 2022, 09:38:09 AM
Assassin/Avenger
I've enjoyed these so much, I'm not sure why they never reached a larger audience.
...
One thing I really like is that there's no 'do you have item x, if not game over' moment. Having certain items or skills makes your life a lot easier, and you can definitely box yourself into a point where a lack
Really enjoyed your write-up of these Way of the Tiger books. They were always head and shoulders above any other series I played so I'm also a bit surprised at their lack of renown. The sense of progression and the world around you were so good. The only other series I remember trying to do this was Lone Wolf and that was a lot less complete. Read somewhere (potentially earlier in this thread) that the whole setting of Orb was one they'd developed over a few years of D&Ding which was why it worked so well. On the other hand, it could be that the idea of an ongoing series is what put people off picking up a random one like you could with FF.

I really liked the same authors' sci-fi series, but that seems more of a niche thing. Think it was called Falcon?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Leigh S on 29 May, 2022, 09:02:04 PM

Agreed!

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 24 May, 2022, 08:21:06 PM
Quote from: Richard on 24 May, 2022, 04:53:55 PM
By the way, Steve Jackson's new book Secrets of Salamonis will be illustrated by the prog's Tazio Bettin!

https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/fighting-fantasy-the-secrets-of-salamonis-fighting-fantasy/steve-jackson/paperback/9781407188492.html

That is extremely cool news! The new artwork for the Scholastic editions has been generally awful.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 29 May, 2022, 10:50:39 PM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 29 May, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 May, 2022, 09:38:09 AM
Assassin/Avenger
I've enjoyed these so much, I'm not sure why they never reached a larger audience.
...
One thing I really like is that there's no 'do you have item x, if not game over' moment. Having certain items or skills makes your life a lot easier, and you can definitely box yourself into a point where a lack
Really enjoyed your write-up of these Way of the Tiger books. They were always head and shoulders above any other series I played so I'm also a bit surprised at their lack of renown. The sense of progression and the world around you were so good. The only other series I remember trying to do this was Lone Wolf and that was a lot less complete. Read somewhere (potentially earlier in this thread) that the whole setting of Orb was one they'd developed over a few years of D&Ding which was why it worked so well. On the other hand, it could be that the idea of an ongoing series is what put people off picking up a random one like you could with FF.

I really liked the same authors' sci-fi series, but that seems more of a niche thing. Think it was called Falcon?

The Lone Wolf epic (still being written by the next generation) was also born out of an RPG campaign. I just bought the newer Book 7 of Way of the Tiger (Redeemer!), but I'm not sure when I'll get to it. The Falcon series I also enjoyed - a sci-fi, time-traveling six-parter - like Doctor Who but with guns.

There were some other contenders, but I don't recall them quite as fondly as the rest. The two Fatemaster books gave you specific map sections, and you could always double-back. Grail Quest had an unusual narrative set-up and was bit of a comedy - kind of like if Sir Terry P had done a gamebook. Skyfall was an unusual blend of fantasy and sci-fi, as you were low tech but exploring a crashed spaceship.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 29 May, 2022, 10:54:11 PM
Citadel of Chaos

Skill: 9      
Stamina: 22      
Luck: 11
Magic: 15


Craggen Rock. Shit. I'm at Craggen Rock. I'm on a mission, which is better than sitting around the Forest of Yore growing weak while the monsters out here grow stronger. It's time to end Balthus Dire, and end the threat he poses to the Vale. One alone has more chance here than armies on the field. Dire has ... powers. But so do I. I don't know if they'll be enough.

My cover story gets me past the hideous mutants guarding the gate and into the large, crowded courtyard at the base of the tower – serving currently as some kind of encampment for Dire's growing forces. Blending in with the miscreants I make it to the tower's main door and bluff my way inside. I trigger an alarm and, blundering to find a hiding spot, tumble into darkness, awaking in a cell.

Despite my incantations, the Calicorn jailor is unmoved and I realize my fate is sealed. Perhaps another assassin will succeed where I have failed. They will have sent more than one.


Post-Match Interview

Seems like I was (in that situation) missing a key spell – but perhaps not getting jailed in the first place would've been the better option. I'd tested my luck three times up to that point and succeeded each time, so I was feeling fairly confident till I tried the wrong door. I got in no fights at all.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Leigh S on 30 May, 2022, 01:31:18 PM
Found the first book in teeh "forbidde Gateway" series (might be a series of 2?) in the tip shop.

Its a Cosmic/Gothic Horror setting, which is nice, but it's wound me up immeditely by having paragraph 1 lead to paragraaph 19 lead to paragraph 35..... there are only 379 paras and you've just wasted two!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Pyroxian on 30 May, 2022, 01:44:43 PM
I think I've got the second forbidden gateway book somewhere...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 May, 2022, 11:27:10 AM
Some very enjoyable walkthroughs on this thread over the last few days. I especially enjoyed Richard's exasperation at the useless Redswift and Stubb who I found very much a Frank Spencer-esque duo although I think one of them at least doesn't get Mungo'd.

Hard to disagree about CotSW being essentially a pretty unfair book - it's relentlessly difficult but it is fun and the art does rule. Compared to HoH - which I've been replaying - which isn't especially fun and most of the art does not rule. HoH is a fiendishly clever book and I can't help but be impressed by that and how it plays out, but having basically one single path through the book that you cannot deviate from is hugely offputting. There's a couple of areas where, once you enter, every single choice you can make leads to death. Throw in the fear points as well - it's impossible to complete the book with a fear score of less than 9 - and I'd say this is literally impossible without a map and / or a ton of foreknowledge.

Once I'd cemented my negative perception of it I started to get annoyed by other little touches - like, why is the vampire in the house at all? Why does the ghost tell you to rescue the nurse when it's not possible? Why does finding a corpse give you a load of fear points but not fighting an animated one? Who the hell leaves their keys on top of a working cooker hob?
All that aside it IS well written and creepy and II think I still prefer it to Starship Traveller but it's not one I want to return to.

Quote from: I, Cosh on 29 May, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
Really enjoyed your write-up of these Way of the Tiger books. They were always head and shoulders above any other series I played so I'm also a bit surprised at their lack of renown. The sense of progression and the world around you were so good. The only other series I remember trying to do this was Lone Wolf and that was a lot less complete. Read somewhere (potentially earlier in this thread) that the whole setting of Orb was one they'd developed over a few years of D&Ding which was why it worked so well. On the other hand, it could be that the idea of an ongoing series is what put people off picking up a random one like you could with FF.

Cheers dude! I've been playing the third one and I'm converting my notes into a more coherent writeup today.
I'm also super impressed with these and I think they're better than a lot of the FF books. I also wonder if the episodic nature counted against them as back in the 80s I used to mainly read books like these piecemeal from libraries or whatever was in the local bookshop and was forever reading book 2 of a trilogy or whatever.
I've got the Freeway Warrior books somewhere that also have a nice sense of progression in them.

Quote from: I, Cosh on 29 May, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
I really liked the same authors' sci-fi series, but that seems more of a niche thing. Think it was called Falcon?

I've played one of these for sure. Didn't realise it was the same authors. Thought I still owned it, but a search only turned up a couple of Grailquest books.

Quote from: Leigh S on 30 May, 2022, 01:31:18 PM
Found the first book in teeh "forbidde Gateway" series (might be a series of 2?) in the tip shop.

I think this book might be impossible, but the second one is really good and also has a great cover if it's the one I'm thinking of.


Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 May, 2022, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 28 May, 2022, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Richard on 26 May, 2022, 05:51:15 PM
They last a lot longer than poor old Mungo from FF7!

Too soon.

(https://i.imgur.com/KdMkv0W.png)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 June, 2022, 02:07:29 PM
Usurper!

It's time for Book 3 of the Way of The Tiger: Usurper! It's a bit of a long one as LOADS happens in this book.

Setting up, I am permitted carried over my stat modifiers and skills from Assassin. In addition, the book allows me a random improvement to a couple of my skills so by now I am a pretty devastating combatant especially with kicks - I'm hitting with most strikes and combat is a fair but easier if I can outlast foes. I'm beginning the book with four skills: Acrobatics, Arrow Cutting, Climbing and Poison Needles.

The book begins where part 2 left off, with my dropping off the Scrolls, stolen way back in book 1, at the temple on the Island of Tranquil Dreams. Here the Grandmaster gives me a long chat about destiny and finally reveals my true heritage - son of a king, who was also a missionary and a martial arts master - and suggests I go and claim back rulership of the city of the spellcheck nightmare-ly named Irsmuncast. To aid me the grandmaster will teach me one of three skills: two special grandmaster only ones or a regular ninja one from the main list. Obviously, I'm going with a choice from the special ones and I elect to learn 'Shin-Ren': the ability to read people by their poise, subtle face movements and the like - Derren Brown skills, essentially. This is followed by an awesome meditation trip with spirit tigers and the like. I'm then off to the Island of Plenty where I link up with the Daimyo I assisted in book 2 who promises to aid me on my quest with a boat to the mainland and 100 samurai warriors to start me off (worth noting here that the grandmaster has said I should go kill off the usurper of Irsmuncast on my own using my ninja prowess. I can send these Samurai one of two routes: one dangerous and one safer but longer. This sounds like it will be very relevant later, but I can't in all good conscience suggest my budding army marches through a place called the Valley of Lich Kings, so we go for the former.
I'm then given two options: making my way alone through the populated Manmarch to Irsmuncast, or heading off with my old friend Glaivas from book 1 (and briefly book 2). I decide to go it alone because I like Glaivas and fear him doing a Mungo. Up to this point essentially nothing much has happened bar exposition and setup but it's all been a joy to read.

Before long I'm on the mainland and running lightly across the plains when I meet another monk who reveals himself as a follower of the Scarlet Mantis - Aiguchi the Weaponmaster. He openly declares he's come to kill me and seek vengeance for me killing their grandmaster in Avenger, but that we should not brawl like common peasants but instead battle it out in some kind of mini-arena used for honour duels. Obviously I accept.
The duel itself is to be fought in a small wood, beginning a dangerous game of cat and mouse. I unluckily fail to kill the Weaponmaster with my poison needles, resulting a cinematic duel including a neat disarming sequence, that leaves me victorious and Aiguchi slain. Almost immediately after I am drawn into single combat with the Black Knight Honoric, Leader of the Sword of Doom, whom I thought killed in Assassin but has survived due to his extreme badassery. He survives my poison needle - he survived the Blood of Nil, after all - and the subsequent fight is an absolute nightmare, if not as dramatic as the one against Aiguchi. In a strange twist, I force Honoric back into a knot of bushes and entangle myself in a trappers snare leaving me helpless, only to have the villain spare my life, wanting only to end my life in single 'honorable' combat (he previously dissed me for my sneaky assassin ways) and ride off.

By now word is out that I am in the Manmarch, and there is a grim foreboding in the air, affecting the local animals. I suspect I will be pursued, and I am right - what follows is a terrifying chase from a relentless, unkillable flesh golem. Here is where I was killed - and then killed again on a repeat playthrough - before scraping through after a very lucky roll on my third play enabled me to kill Aiguchi without striking a blow as this encounter is brutal: the monster is literally unkillable and the chase is a reasonably long one with me gradually weakening and getting more and more desperate as things go on. After several unsuccessful (but non-fatal) attempts to be rid of it, and a sinking feeling that the Manmarch segment was some HoH-style dead end, I manage to drop it into a huge rift, team up with a paladin who drops me at the walls of Irsmuncast fully healed and I guess it's time for part 2 of the book.

Entering the city barefoot and in humble guise is a nice touch for someone who wants to be a future ruler.  The place is apparently run by the evil priests of Nemesis so I decide to lay low and like a dope I head for the temple of Kwon, easily the first place anyone would look for me if the hue and cry was on (and it is) where the Grandmaster fills me in on the situation and tells me of four factions - the Monks of Time, the Shieldmaidens, the Merchants and the common people - that I need to unite behind me.
One pub crawl later I'm off meeting various representatives - the commoners and the shield maidens seem fairly easy to sway with a bit of common sense but the church of Time is somewhat noncommittal and the merchants downright untrustworthy. Although they agree to use their mercenary armies to aid my cause. my Shin-Ren tells me they will betray me (this is the first use of Shin-Ren of any note in the book btw) and when I tell them this they agree not to betray me - this doesn't seem likely. Nevertheless all have agreed to aid me with their forces and will spring into action against the usurpers troops once I have assassinated the usurper himself.

I'm soon back on familiar ground with a mission of murder. I steal into the caverns beneath the palace where I fail to slip past some trolls with my climbing skill but drive them off in combat. Having completed Assassin I am able to use an item from that book to enter what I assume would otherwise be a hidden area and recover a magical circlet -  using my sheer willpower, rather than an object, to overcome it's guardian flame - and engage in a horribly difficult battle of wills before it's time to face the Usurper.
As one would expect this isn't as straightforward as you'd think - I kill the tyrant with my poison needles only to discover there is more about him than expected. This fight is absolutely bonkers hard, with multiple stages, but made significantly easier by being able to swig a healing potion halfway through to restore my health to maximum as well as the circlet reducing the damage I take by 4 - significant when monsters are dealing 3d6 damage per hit. With help from my paladin mate I struggle through and  I am down to 2 health when I finally drop the Usurper.
From here I am able to kickstart the revolution. The shieldmaidens and the commoners charge the tyrants forces, with the mercenaries of the merchants guild making a belated appearance, although the priests of time no-show. Finally my samurai (remember them?) arrive to crush any final resistance and I am crowned king, hurray!

The premise of the book is the first time this has fallen down a bit, because as a ninja, it seems a bit weird to suddenly be told I'm sort-of royalty and to go take over a city. Technically it's an assassination mission, but I don't really buy into the 'chosen one' trope. The following stuff however, with the two duels and the golem, was absolutely top notch if totally unrelenting. The Honoric duel felt a little flat following the one with Aiguchi but the golem chase was excellent. The rallying of the factions was mainly for colour - the commoners and the shieldmaidens do all the heavy lifting and whilst I assume it's possible to not get these onside, but it seemed a bit obvious what to say a=to do so if you'd paid attention to the text - but the final battle against the Usurper was insanely hard and I'm not really sure how I survived it. The skill of Shin-Ren was almost 100% useless.

Otherwise I have the same praise for this as the other two - multiple paths to victory, immersive writing and an immersive world, items that ease the path instead of insta-death if you don't have them and some dynamic, fun battles. I'm not sure how the next book will fare now I'm running a whole city, but I am keen to find out.

Next for me will be TALISMAN OF DEATH.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 June, 2022, 06:52:41 PM
It's fun to read your Way of the Tiger play-throughs - it's a long time since I played those, and I wasn't sure quite how the third book played out. I like that they shifted the focus from adventuring to trying to reclaim a city, even though that seemed an odd way to go for a ninja-assassin character.

I appreciated, when reading these, that the writers had come up with their own pantheon. I was recently reminded of The Rift (an interesting geographical feature) with the book and series Shadow and Bone, and its Shadow Fold (or Unsea).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 June, 2022, 12:18:26 PM
I love BB's Way of the Tiger write-ups as I can read them without fear of spoilers!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 02 June, 2022, 03:04:38 PM
It's a great write-up, and the Mungo tribute above it made me laugh. "Doing a Mungo" should become a phrase.

Looking forward to reading about Talisman of Death.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 June, 2022, 06:59:07 PM
Oh man - I'm doing an epic Forest of Doom playthrough at the moment. It's made me realize what a great book this is - the dynamic of letting you go around for another try if you don't find what you need is pretty cool. I know Scorpion Swamp does a more complex version of that.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 June, 2022, 11:08:00 PM
Steve Jackson Interview! Fighting Fantasy, Sorcery, and Games Workshop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEY5hAT24X0)

I love that he meets up with Ian Livingstone and Peter Molyneux once a week to play board games.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 03 June, 2022, 04:23:04 AM
++SPOILERS AHOY++


The Forest of Doom

Skill: 12      
Stamina: 20      
Luck: 9
Potion: Fortune



Well, huzzah! A quest has simply landed in my lap – this little fellow stumbled into my camp and gifted me (with his dying breath) his coin pouch and a rudimentary map. All I need do is visit a merchant-mage and then pop into the woods for a little arboreal jaunt after the fellow's hammer, then bring it to his kin in Stoneybridge. I suppose finding an undersized hammer in a large forest (notorious for its apparent lack of light) is the troublesome part, but perhaps this Yaztromo fellow can help with that. Whatever way you shake it, I'm up – everything else is gravy!

The somewhat grumpy mage lets me into his shop and tells me more of the hammer – it is in two pieces – an ebony handle and a bronze head. He suggested my trouble was doubled, but surely it is halved – as I have twice the chance of finding something! Well, arithmetic was never my strong suit – at any rate, I am newly equipped with a variety of magical trinkets and head off on my sylvan expedition.

My first slight snag is met when the path through the darkening woods splits! However am I to find the objects of my quest if the route is manifold? (Also, there are no sign postings!) Well, I opt for the eastern route, even though there's nothing in it – feeling the sun on my face is rather pleasant! I start to jot down a map on the back of the one gifted by that fellow who started me on this increasingly errant errand – my getting lost simply won't do.

No sooner have I bemoaned the lack of signage than a sign I happen upon, and upon which sits a talkative crow,  who requires a coin for information. I regret having spent all of my recently acquired pieces on magical bric-a-brac, and so cannot gain the wisdom of this chatty corvid and opt to strike toward Stonebridge, whereupon I am set upon by two hobgoblins. A short, but somewhat exhilarating display of my martial prowess leads to my searching their corpses for booty. Irony! Now I have a few coins for the unlikely crow, but I do not wish to backtrack. Certainly, they did not carry the hammer.

A little further along I happen upon a large burrow, reeking with slime and danger. Normally, one might retreat at this point, but I am no light heart when it comes to ravenous beasts and am soon in combat with a deadly gigantiform worm! Having segmented the beast, and decided against attempting to cook steaks, I find the remains of previous visitors, who gift me a few coin and a potion, which I quaff. Luckily, it appears to improve my musculature. This worm did not guard either piece of the hammer. How bothersome!

Next I investigate a large cave, containing an ogre. I know, you're thinking "leave the poor fellow alone – he's living a quiet life in the woods – perhaps knock politely and ask after the health of his kin" – but he does have another poor fellow stuck in a cage in his kitchen! Which is why I rush in and kill the chap, before ransacking his shelter. He almost gains posthumous revenge as I trigger a poisonous gas trap, but the mage's nose filters spare me a gruesome end.

As for the fellow in the cage, it turns out to be a goblin – and damn it all if he doesn't have the ebony handle of the hammer I seek! Even though I release him, the crazed buffoon runs onto my sword. I swear! Such yokels! I feel the effects of the potion I drank earlier wearing off, but I have the handle! Now, with half my search complete, does that leave me with the same problem I began with, or half, or double? Ah, such fancies are surely for philosophers: I shall continue my jaunt regardless.

I find myself hoisted by one of those fiendishly clever ankle-rope traps but, as luck would have it, I maintain my sword and cut myself down, brush myself off and continue my searches. Along the path, I investigate a rudely constructed treehouse and am forced to battle a wild ape-man in narrow confines. Upon his death, I adopt a what must be a magic bracelet that makes my sword feel easier to swing. Well, at least the brute didn't die for nothing! At a crossroads, I head west, although there is again no signage. Such wilds! The path branches a couple of times and I find myself heading northwards again – whereupon I chance upon a tortured and bound barbarian fellow, whom I cut free in hopes of gaining useful information. You may think of me as foolish and bold – and perhaps this is so, for he immediately attacked me!

Having dismissed the barbarian and bandaged a minor wound, I find myself crossing the river by way of some stepping stones, prior to bedding down for the night – although my sleep is disturbed by vampire bats, held at bay by the garlic I purchased from the mage yesterday. Striking out north in the morning mists, I am ambushed by wild hill men, firing arrows at me from cover. Thankfully, they are not a good aim, and I dispatch the sinewy miscreants with ease, and inherit a small silver key – which I naturally pocket.  I say naturally – but what chance that I would find the exact lock that some random bandit's key would fit? I am haunted by these impossible philosophies!

I choose this moment to imbibe a potion blessed by Sindla, in the hope that it will improve my chances of finding the remaining piece of the artefact. Again, the path splits, and again – it is some relief to relax a moment from all this twisting and turning to take advantage of a hot mud pool with natural healing properties. I knew this forest jaunt would be merry!  Even being attacked by an enormous flying reptile creature a few moments later couldn't dull my spirits.   

Perhaps my prayer to Sindla is answered, as next there is a sequence of arrows painted on the ground – which I follow to an old hollowed out tree trunk, hiding a tunnel leading down into the black depths. I use the mage's magic ring to cast light into the abyss, revealing a significant drop – but I did not purchase a rope when offered the chance! I dare not risk such a fall, and ponder that those who took the hammer would also have suffered badly in such a venture, and so I backtrack to the main path and strike on, twisting and turning through various of these junctions but keeping generally towards Stonebridge.

I investigate a small, mossy dwelling of stone, with nary a window – but it does have a small keyhole, in which I chance to try the bandit's key! By all the chances, it opens and I descend into a dusty crypt, replete with a sarcophagus and the skeleton of some wild humanoid – would this be the brother of the goblin who had the hammer's handle? You would say I should leave at once, but monster hunting and tomb raiding are my trade and so I disturb the heavy lid without much thought – but cannot shift it! Dash it! It seems heavy beyond reason of its size.

Further along the path I investigate a midden that turns out to be the nest of a fire-breathing and flying lizard, which partially roasts me for my trouble before I play it a lullaby on the brass flute I collected earlier, subduing it so that I may ransack its lair. I find some coin, and a gauntlet and ring both adorned with magic sigils. I confess to feeling somewhat troubled by my unlucky recent encounters and so leave these for some other fellow and move on before the beast awakens!

Thence I find myself accosted by woodland bandits, who demand tribute for passage. Well! Perhaps they do not realize with whom they tarry and, feeling bruised from my rather scorching encounter with the dragon-creature, I opt to battle them. It is poor sport, but they will not waylay another traveler. Soon, the trees thin, and I find myself in Stonebridge itself – but of course I do not possess the hammer they seek! Pondering, I think that I may return to the mage's tower, purchase more of his trinkets and re-enter the forest – I feel sure I am close, and am still well supplied in staples.

I almost fall foul of an ambush by a hill tribe but surprise the mage by my return – I sense that perhaps he calculated to not see me or my coin again, due to the predations of his wild surrounds. We chat for a time and I explain my adventure thus far – and I tell of my wish to lift the lid of the crypt – for there was the skeleton, which reminded me of the goblin in the ogre's cave. But then there was also the dark tunnel beneath the hollowed tree. Yaztromo suggests that my finding of the silver key and the hammer's handle would suggest that the south-east of the forest is not the place to seek my goal, but I do not see how he has fathomed this – annoyingly, and just like a philosopher, he taps his nose, and strokes his beard slowly!

Well, still, it does not do to ignore mages who tap their noses knowingly, and so I plan to concentrate my search as if this is some kind of linear adventure planned by the gods (rather than, as it appears, a natural forest), while I purchase some rope (and other trinkets) from the mage. Troubling me, I have had a run of luck both good and ill, and wonder if I am pushing it too far with my bull-headedness. Still, how else to pass the time?

Old Yaz nods off eventually and I take that as my cue to leave, venturing once more into the dark of the wood to explore new paths and soon chance upon a quaint hut, smoke rising from its well-built chimney. Peering in through the window I spy a witch and her hunchbacked servant – perhaps they will be able to assist me in the same manner as the friendly mage of the tower? Ah, it seems not! She doth cackle and attempt to subdue me with various noxious herbs. Her accomplice coshes me, and I am knocked completely out!

Well, the witch must have been curiously famished, as she has stolen all of my staples but left me with my gold and magic bric-a-brac. She and her nimble companion have fled, but I find hidden in her cottage a magic jewel that purports to force my enemies to speak truth! Imagine! Perhaps the witch had cursed me, for soon I am accosted by a living tree! I use the mage's flaming bombs to dissuade and make my escape onto the grasslands in the middle of the forest. Here I am briefly following a path from my previous incursion, but soon branch off towards the west.

Luckily, I meet a fellow adventurer – hunting boar – and he takes the time to gift me some belladonna, which he says will protect me in the night. Further along I chance upon another educated fellow, who challenges me, rather abruptly, to an arm wrestling contest! The prize (which I win by dint of some magic from the mage) is, he promises me, a magical dust that will lift any object! Well, I say! I should try this at the crypt, which I gauge must be to my north.

Naturally, I head in that direction, taking in the beauty of a rainbow across a magnificent waterfall, matched only by a glowing full moon as I settle down to sleep for the night. Naturally, to enjoy these wonders I must also defeat local fish-men and werewolves, but such is the adventuring life of the great outdoors! Early the next day, as I scout for bandits, I fall foul of a cunningly disguised bear trap, which I only escape thanks to another purchase from the mage. Not only is my ego bruised, but I am becoming quite battered – and hungry! Damn that witch!

Before long I return to the crypt and sprinkle the magic dust onto the lid, which I can now push aside – naturally within is a fetid ghoul which rises to attack! Once I tame the beast, I am rewarded with a treasure of coin and – yes – the head of the fabled hammer I seek! Hurrying north I am again accosted by bandits, and this time, feeling rather more kindly, I gift them some items I have picked up along the way – my pack had begun to weigh heavily at any rate.

The dwarves of Stonebridge are ecstatic at the return of their hammer, and I am rewarded well. As the festivities ensue, I start to wonder ... what of the paths in the forest that I did not explore? Perhaps...


Post-Match Interview

I really did map this one out, given that I have meta-knowledge that if you get through without the hammer you can go back in again. I was trying not to cheat but I played this one a lot when it was originally published and I so I may have known the route without knowing I did – it felt pretty lucky that I got to the handle on the first try, certainly. Oh, wait – I know math – there's a 25% chance that you get to the handle first go.

Having been through the forest once I knew I needed the Dust of Levitation, but not where it is. Knowing that the correct path involved getting the handle and the silver key narrowed my options of where to search next:

(https://i.imgur.com/zmtoHKV.png)


Skill 12 was really lucky (my pattern for the first three books has been 12-9-12) and, as with Warlock, makes most of the combat non-threatening. It wasn't until my sixth combat (with the barbarian) that I lost stamina. Eventually, I completed the adventure with no provisions (stolen by the witch) and luck 7, stamina 17 – so I would probably have died from arrows if I'd needed a third go in the woods.

I used this mapping tool: https://probabletrain.itch.io/dungeon-scrawl. My random numbers are being generated using Excel's RANDBETWEEN(1,6) function. I've calculated the chance of doing the correct route the first time you play the book as 0.26%.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 June, 2022, 02:31:45 PM
Epic writeup Funt! Thanks for linking that map tool - looks really useful.

Thanks to everyone saying they enjoyed my WotT writeup too. I wondered if it was too long so glad it was enjoyed. I am bidding on book 4 on ebay right now.
I've actually got two of the reprint books going spare - Assassin and Usurper - I was able to get the original versions of both to match my long-owned copy of Avenger, and I prefer the original art (and old book smell). I'd be happy to donate these to anyone who wants them.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 05 June, 2022, 09:42:03 PM
Starship Traveller

Captain's Log, Seltsian Void Event, AstroNaval Day 01
By all known laws of physics, we should be dead – we crossed the event horizon of a black hole, so tidal forces alone should have atomized the Traveller and us along with it. Instead, we find ourselves in unknown space, surrounded by unfamiliar stars. Given that the NavComp can't calculate our location, the best theory SciOps Brains can come up with is that we've somehow phase-shifted to an entirely different universe (infra or ultra also unknown) through some combination of a runaway warp drive reaction coupled with the exponential gravity gradient.

EO Sparks repaired the warp engines and we made for one of two life-bearing systems nearby – the clear mission being to reconnoiter and attempt to calculate a method of return to our own universe. We picked up an alien transponder signal from a vessel which is moving to intercept us. We should rendezvous in a few hours. I've ordered the crew to get some rest in the meantime.

++DATA FOUND IN WRECKAGE OF ALIEN VESSEL OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN BY COMMANDER M'K TEL, IMPERIAL GANZIG FEDERATION++ 


Post-Match Interview

That was a lot of prep work for not a lot of progress! You don't just roll up stats for your ship, but also you (the Captain) and six of your crew, each of whom has a replacement. I went full roleplay and developed names for everyone, but it all came to naught when my first ship-to-ship battle went against me, and the Starship Traveller was destroyed by the aggressive Ganzig Federation.

There was an option to let them board and take over the ship - but Captain Solo was all like "fuck that shit, let's blast 'em".

(https://i.imgur.com/B6uiR9V.png)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 June, 2022, 11:42:39 AM
Brilliant, I live that you went all in!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 June, 2022, 03:02:36 PM
Nice. Is that our shortest playthrough yet?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 June, 2022, 03:32:55 PM
Special bank holiday weekend playthrough of the TALISMAN OF DEATH Long wreiteup again, spoilers ahead!

This book is a brand new one for me, scooped up off ebay for this thread. It's got a striking lovely cover and an interesting start, with me being transported from Earth, Thomas Covenant-like, to undertake a sort of suicide mission for the gods of good. It's definitely starting off with more plot than 'you're an adventurer, off you go' and although at first it seemed a little reminiscent of Grailquest or Choose Your Own Adventure at first the reason for this soon became clear.

After a mysterious intro I find myself in an underground cavern where I run into a quarter of adventurers who essentially give me the titular talisman and some backstory before the party wizard uses the last of their magical power to teleport me out whilst the others give their lives to get me clear. The reveal that I'm in The Rift - a terrible place I last saw in Way of the Tiger - is to be honest a bit of a thrill. I'm back in the world of Orb, needing to get the Talisman of Death (a device that will summon the God of Death to Orb, thus ending all life) back to Earth itself where it should be out of the reach of evil gods forever. The adventurers I met have suggested the first step is to get to Greyguilds, known as the City of Learning, and get help, so off I go.

I decide to go via the woodlands to avoid detection, as it sounds like all forces of the Rift could be on my trail. After a happy encounter with a friendly druid, I sneak past a sleeping Basilisk, before getting into my first combat - it's an obvious trap, but as I'm a good guy representing the gods og good it's something I couldn't really ignore, but I win it with just a single wound taken. Moving onto the plains I meet a group of horsewomen and am happy to give up my sword to be escorted to city where I promptly lose the Talisman. Whoops.

So now I've lost the precious Talisman: taken by Hawkana, High Priestess of Fell-Kyrinla, the Swordmistress of the Heavens. This, it turns out, is not a good god and the City of Learning is ruled by a sort of evil militia. Turfed out on my own and weaponless, I fight down the urge for a self-destructive yet probably fun visit the Street of Seven Sins, and instead go to Smith Street where I am able to replace my sword (using most of my cash). It's a good job I do as I am then accosted by a Ringwraith 'Minion of Death' which luckily is a rubbish combatant as its attacks deal SKILL and well as STAMINA damage. I slay the foul creature, then stop a robbery for a small reward, visit the library for some knowledge on the gods of Orb and then promptly get ambushed (with a bear trap) by the Priests of Death searching for the Talisman. When I confess I'vealready  lost it they simply slink off and I have to rely on the kindness of strangers to save me. Luckily this stranger is an awesome sage of good as he offers me advice, a magic skill ring, more gold and delicious savory pancackes. Hurray!

The Talisman, I'm told, is likely being held at the Temple of Fell-Kyrinla and that I should make for a Red Dragon Inn (on the Street of Seven Sins, no less) to make contact with some thieves (presumably to steal it back, although this isn't made clear). Hoping for some Conan-like heist I go to the pub and am having some beer with a gang of obvious crooks when who should walk in but two of my old enemies from the Way of The Tiger, Tyutchev and Cassandra! This is exciting stuff for me. I know this pair are thieves and murderers but sadly they don't seem interested in helping me and I fear I've put my foot in it by even raising the subject. I leg it.

Heading back to see the friendly sage I run into some more sages, who offer me a big reward if I fight some horrible hybrid monster they've created. "We'll put it to sleep if it looks bad for you" they say - this is almost certainly not going to work but I accept anyway, beat it and am given the scroll of agonizing doom as a reward. Wow. Happy with my new horrific sounding scroll I head back to the sages for a nice dinner and more advice including how to get out of the city, where to take the talisman and a one-off call for help thing should I get in over my head. I just have to get the talisman back first though so it's off to the thieves guild.

On the way I'm distracted by a magician performing for the crowd who turns out to be an associate of Tyutchev - making him probably Thaum, the third of this trio of miscreants. I think they too may be after the talisman. A note lures me into the Temple of Death where I battle a necromancer before, disguised, I witness a terrifying ritual where the priests of death summon six wraiths from a pool of boiling blood and charge them with recovering... the talisman of death. This is getting worse by the minute. I escape using a magic helm and make it to the thieves guild where I come clean about what I am after and get a gang of thieves, incredibly unsavory characters to a man. The book here basically tells me they'll betray me, but I'd already figured that one out...

We bust into the temple. I stop them killing a servant, which sets off an alarm and surprisingly the thieves leg it before they can be Mungo'd. Realising time is short I move quickly, defeating a guard and finally confront Hawkana herself. She is both a wizard and and warrior - I'm somewhat blown up by her spell, but the scroll of agonizing doom weakens her and although this is a SKILL 12 fight thanks to my scroll she only has 6 STAMINA, so I'm able to get through. The Talisman is mine again! Hawkana seems to be already regenerating her wounds so it's time for a rooftop escape - I meet back up with my gang, they turn on me but one thief bites the dust in the escape and the others flee. Before I can catch my breath it's Thaum, Tyutchev and Cassandra again, demanding the talisman. Outflanked, outnumbered and outclassed I call upon the All-Mother for aid and I'm away from the terrible trio.

I leave the city through the graveyard as instructed - ignoring 'what looks like a lantern' in graveyard (pretty sure I know what that is) and head South-East, again following the sage's instructions. That night I am accosted by a terrible ringwraith wraith - I drive it off with a torch, but next night I must face all six! Within a circle of torches, surrounded by the hissing horrors I am given three choices that all seem terrible. I choose what seems to be the worst one and it backfires - the wraiths break through, and I am turned to dust by their dreadful touch. GAME OVER.


I really enjoyed this book. It's quite light on fighting but heavy on encounters and worldbuilding with a lot of description and sensible, intelligent choices to make. Plotwise it is a bit LotR but it did feel pretty relentless with so many factions and enemies harassing me for the talisman rather than just random combats and I felt under pressure almost throughout. It's very generous with  luck and stamina - as although there was a lot of chance to lose them I was constantly regaining them - and it's also very generous with skill bonuses - I got two over the course of the book which would have increased my skill to 13 and in theory both should have made me a better fighter than I started as which is as always a bit of a FF dilemma (I think a max skill of 12, rather than never being able to increase starting skill, would be a better option) and tbh I was finding it reasonably easy until my sudden insta-death.

The other thing I obviously loved about it was the connection to WotT. Familiar places and characters were a joy to see here. The book also shares the same artist - Bob Harvey - which enhances the continuity of the world of Orb. I believe from reading around the book that his art isn't well regarded by FF readers and although a couple of his monsters here could be described as a bit derpy there's also very well realised scenes - Hawksana calling down her magic in the temple is full of drama, and I saw a couple of other great ones whilst flicking through such a the Death Knight framed in a doorway, exuding menace and another great image of a woman (Hawksana again?) standing atop a crag in the mist.

Really keen to try this one again!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 June, 2022, 08:34:26 PM
Nice playthrough - I'm sure that it was playing this book that got me into the Way of the Tiger series. I like that you meet both good-aligned and evil-aligned groups of D&D characters as part of the narrative.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 06 June, 2022, 08:39:57 PM
Talisman is such an oddity! The only FF fantasy book not set on Titan, and only one of three with a protagonist from 'our' world.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 June, 2022, 11:11:54 PM
Thank you Mr Boots, I have bought my own copy on eBay on the strength of your review!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 June, 2022, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: Richard on 06 June, 2022, 11:11:54 PM
Thank you Mr Boots, I have bought my own copy on eBay on the strength of your review!

Excellent! I hope I haven't over-hyped it through my WotT love and you have as much fun with it as I did!

I've finished the book now - did slightly better on my second playthrough, following almost the same path: I did die at the end, but there was a neat little resurrection trick that fits into the story very thematically and gave me a second (third?) chance. I won't spoil anymore of the book, but I really enjoyed this one. Although the end did seem to settle into a linear path I'd like to try this again taking different routes, as from the illustrations there's quite a bit I haven't seen, I think.

Another brand new one for me next week perhaps - Space Assassin.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 June, 2022, 12:57:59 PM
Sorcery! – The Shamutanti Hills

Something a little bit different, this time. I don't have Talisman of Death (or the next 11 FF books!) so I'm going to start Sorcery!, the FF companion series pitched at older readers. The first book, Shamutanti Hills, was released in 1983, around the time of City of Thieves, so I should actually have played it a while back!

I've got all the Sorcery! books (the rather nice Wizard box set) and I've had a run at Shamutanti Hills before [spoiler]I died in the field of flowers[/spoiler]. I've been tempted to give the smartphone versions a go for a while, and flying to Glasgow a few weeks ago on a stag do was the perfect excuse to download one – not only would I have something to do on the flights (without having to mess around with dice and pencil) but I could see how it compares to the dead tree version. I've held back some of the surprises in store, but, as always, spoilers follow...

The Playthrough
[There's no rolling for a character as there aren't any stats in this version – just a stamina value, and even that's out of my control. I am given the option to play as either male or female; I hadn't given much thought to my character's sex either way so far, but I've imagined all my adventurers as male. Let's see if this time a bit of female intuition can't get me a win where male intellect has (mostly) failed.]

So. The legendary Crown of Kings – which can bring unheard-of peace and prosperity – has been stolen from the King of Analand (no sniggering at the back) by birdmen from the Fortress of Mampang. Everyone seems to think getting it back is a fairly hopeless task, but the kingdom's future looks so bleak without the Crown that I'm given the job anyway – just on the offchance that I don't die horribly. The first order of business is to wend my way up through the Shamutanti foothills to the infamous cityport of Kharé, a weeping sore of a metropolis that makes Port Blacksand look positively cosmopolitan...

(https://i.imgur.com/R79obZ7.jpg?1)

In retrospect, I make a bit of a mistake with virtually the first choice I'm given, although it does set out the stall for my character as a bit of a would-be paragon. The Sightmaster Sergeant who sees me off offers me a purse of 24 gold for my travels; virtuously, I give him back half, telling him the King ought not to spare so much. I'm going to spend plenty of time cursing that decision on my travels! The first encounter of note happens as I leave the town of Cantopani, when two BANDITS accost me. Knowing I definitely can't spare the gold they demand, I offer them a taste of steel instead – all 28 inches of it. In the first of many examples of Sorcery's moral ambiguity, I afterwards find the bandits were too poor even to have anything worth looting from their bodies - which makes me feel just super about killing them.

[Combat in the app works similarly to rolling dice, but with a bit more nuance – you and your opponent each (blindly) choose an attack strength. Whoever turns out to have chosen the higher is the one who does damage that round; but the higher you go, the less attack strength is available to you next round, so it's always good to hold something back. If you pay attention, the flavour text also sometimes drops clues about what your opponent's going to do next.]

(https://i.imgur.com/lbmLOBn.jpg?1) 

Above Cantopani the road forks around a massive oak tree. As I stand debating which road to take, a voice calls to me from up in the branches, begging for help. It's a little old man, who claims to have been whisked up into the boughs by a mischievous race of Fey called Elvins. As something of a gamebook veteran at this point, I'm immediately wary – the old man's just as likely to be baiting  a trap for some horrible demon angler-fish or something, but as it's early into the adventure I decide to take him at face value. I'll try to take everyone on trust until I start having reason not to. Having helped him down, he seems to be exactly what he said he was, and rewards me with a riddle and an incomplete page from a spellbook, either of which might be useful later. I shinny back up into the tree to collect some honeycomb and beeswax from a beehive, (the former food, the latter a reagent for a new spell); all in all, I've not done too badly here.

(https://i.imgur.com/8ytt6cx.jpg?1)

With a further choice of routes opening up after the fork at the tree, I decide to follow the road toward the Schanker mines – there's always loot to be found in mines, right? This particular one's run by a horde of goblins. Waiting for a moment when the entrance is unguarded, I slip inside for a little opportunistic plunder. Soon I've stumbled upon a GOBLIN GUARD who is none too pleased about being woken from his nap. I can't say fairer than helping him down into a deeper, more permanent slumber. Things start to get seriously tricky in the tunnels he was guarding, as supports start to crumble around me and the whole mine nearly comes down on my head! Bloody goblin workmanship. I eventually emerge blinking into daylight again, better off to the tune of one silver key and a pair of furry boots. Hardly the sort of riches I was hoping for...

On the third day I travel down into the shade of the Mediki forest, curious about a lonely building I've seen nestled among the trees on the map. Soon a chocolate-box cottage comes into sight – roses around the porch, painted designs on the door – but it's seemingly abandoned. I tentatively enter, braced for danger, and a voice calls eagerly for help. There's a young woman locked in a cage. She claims to be Alianna, the owner of the cottage, another victim of those pesky Elvins. I cast DOP to open the cage – although part of me is braced for this to be a horrible mistake. The old man in the tree was the exception to the rule that this sort of thing rarely ends well in an FF book, and Alianna's probably going to turn out to be a witch or cannibal who was locked away for a very good reason... She rewards me with Ragnarista's Armband of Swordmasters, to bring skill to my sword arm. And a bag of 8 gold. And we sit and have a very pleasant lunch together. After a while, these books do something to you. You lose all sense of trust; start seeing boogeymen in every shadow. Sometimes, you have to just – Ah. Here we go. She is a witch, it turns out, and brings one of her chairs to life to fight me as I try to leave.

(https://i.imgur.com/qad0lhn.jpg?1)

A few splinters seem a small price to pay for the goodies I got here, as I leave the cottage a lot better off than I went in – for once, it was worth springing the trap! Climbing up into the Shamutanti Hills proper, I go through a few more little villages. One of these, Urrustanti, is a strangely gloomy place, full of pale, limping townsfolk with haunted eyes. No prizes for guessing why my Spirit sent me here. These look like people who could use a hero... Keen to know what their ailment is, I approach a village elder and shake his hand, to show I mean them no harm. He's surprised at this – didn't I know that Urrustanti is riddled with plague? I look at my hand with horror, but it's too late – already, I'm breaking out in purple boils. My trusting nature has doomed me. I only have a few days before it claims me... (which doesn't quite make sense, to my mind. If that's the life expectancy, the village can have only been suffering – at most – for two days, or everyone in it would be dead. But this is clearly something they've been living with for some time...)

Thankfully, it's not something I have to worry about for too long. Staggering out of the village, I'm already feeling sweaty and feverish – this is absolutely no way to run a quest. So I fall to my knees and pray to The Monkey for salvation... [In the original book, you could call on Libra, your personal Goddess, for help in really sticky situations – a sort of once-per-book Get Out of Jail Free card. In the app, you instead have a guardian spirit who takes the form of an animal. You can call multiple times for help or healing per adventure, but it's fickle, and might not always listen...] My prayer is heard, and the plague cured. I only wish I could do more for the poor citizens of Urrustanti.

(https://i.imgur.com/R9JSu3W.jpg?1)

The next town is Birritanti, and on the way in I'm suddenly adopted by a little pixie-like chap who calls himself Jann. He asks to hitch a ride, and – having established he's not a sort of Elvin – I can't really see the harm. Frankly, it's nice to have a bit of friendly company. The local innkeeper is a man called Glandragor, with a face that might best be described as 'lived in.' He's solidly built, and as he pours me a flagon of ale I can see his arms are corded with old muscle; here's a retired adventurer if ever there was one. Having passed the time of day very pleasantly, I head out of the town, a drunken Jann burping gently in my ear. There are signposts to a Crystal Waterfall, which sounds intriguing – supposedly it has magical healing powers – and after grudgingly paying a ruffian 2 gold for the privilege, I'm soon washing off the dust of the road. The waters really do feel fantastic. Local legend has it that they can even cure disease...

Suddenly, I'm rushing back down the path to Birritanti – thankfully having remembered to get dressed again first! Back at the inn, Glandragor can see immediately where I'm going with my excited talk of Urrustanti and the waterfall, and pours cold water on my hopes – not only does he not believe the waters are magical, but given that the village is only a day's walk or so away, don't I think someone must have tried the cure before now? Well, I'm a hero – I just can't take the chance. If I can't get anyone else to go, I'll have to do it alone. Jann isn't best pleased, but as I tell him, he doesn't have to come. I'm halfway back to Urrustanti when Glandragor overtakes me – I've shamed him into doing the right thing! To my even greater surprise, Jann elects to go with him, too. Minimites are apparently immune to plague, and he thinks he might have a nice place to live if he has a grateful village behind him. Well, that's the way it is with friends in a gamebook – whether they get a happy ending or 'do a Mungo', you can't expect any of them to stick around for long. It's just a shame that I won't know – in this adventure, at least – how this subplot ends, and whether I saved Urrustanti. Virtue will have to be its own reward, this time...

Things suddenly get serious on the far side of Birritanti. I'm on the edges of a small copse when a blade slides with silken smoothness across my neck, stopping me in my tracks. A voice in my ear warns me that he has his life in my hands, and 'invites' me to turn and face him. One of the many shadows among the trees detaches itself from the others, and becomes the shape of an assassin. He quickly learns something about the wisdom of testing a sorcerer, as I ZAP with a lightning bolt to soften him up before the swordplay. FLANKER – as he calls himself – is soon on his knees, bloodied and panting. 'Honour must be satisfied. Finish me.' To teach him a lesson about picking fights with strangers, I spare his life instead – and to drive the message a little deeper, I even treat and bind his wounds. The shamed assassin declares himself to be in my debt, and promises that – if I should live so long – he'll do what he can to help me in Kharé. For whatever reason, I feel I can take Flanker at his word. To take a foe and make him a friend is an even nicer feeling than (maybe) saving a village from the plague.

(https://i.imgur.com/MCR6mG1.jpg?1)

But I'll never know if Flanker's an assassin of his word until I make it out of the hills, so I press on to the final village before the city of café. Torrepani is a village of svinns – half-orcs. Look, I'm no racist, but you can hardly blame me for going especially warily down into the hamlet – and wouldn't you know it, I end up thrown into a cell overnight. Next morning the chief himself comes to visit me – and to apologise. His daughter was recently kidnapped by goblins, and they're hopeful that I might be just the girl to help. An adventurer's work is never done! So before I know what's what, I find myself being lowered down into an abandoned mine tunnel in a wicker basket. They are at least good enough to throw a torch down after me...

I stumble for a while through the tunnels, horribly aware of... something else... down here with me. A distant roaring. An occasional scratching. I blunder into a pit of snakes, but a quick cast of LAW has them all dancing to my tune, and the reptiles obligingly form themselves into a ladder for me to climb back out. Later I trigger a trap – an immense boulder, perfectly sized to the tunnel, begins to roll after me. In a panic, all my spellcasting knowledge seems to fly out of my head, and I drop to my knees to pray instead. It's probably the single riskiest thing I've done since leaving Analand, but my Spirit comes through for me and stops the boulder before I'm crushed. And eventually – eventually – I find the svinn girl, playing despondently with some stones in a corner. I hardly have time to tell her that I'm here to rescue her before a bloody MANTICORE stalks into the cave chamber...

(https://i.imgur.com/sDueWN1.jpg?1)

This must be what the goblins had sacrificed the svinn girl to – but as it stalks toward me, poison dripping from its teeth, I don't think I can count on it being too picky about where its next meal comes from. I've just got time to cast WAL against myself – it costs 3 stamina, but I now have a forcefield  protecting me. Every time I choose to defend, I won't take any damage for that round – so it's only when the manticore beats my attack strength that I'll take damage. And then the mighty beast is upon me, and boy does it give me the toughest fight so far... [In fact, if I was playing the paper version, this would have been the end of my adventure, as we battled each other down to a mere one health apiece – and then the manticore killed me. But the app asked if I'd like to try the fight again, and having gotten so near to the end of the adventure it seemed rude not to!]

With the beast dead, I take the girl back to Torrepani. There's naturally much rejoicing. Like most everyone in the foothills, the svinns are a poor folk, but I'm feted and fed until I can't eat another bite. They spare me a little gold, and most importantly of all, the chief gives me a key to the South Gate of Kharé (I choose not to ask how he got it). This stage of the mission is at an end, but I still have a long way to go...

(https://i.imgur.com/hkfWFal.jpg?1)

The Verdict – Shamutanti hills

Gosh, this was good. Sorcery! is a fantastic series. 'Fighting Fantasy for grown-ups' seems a bit of a trite description, but... it really does feel like 'Fighting Fantasy for grown-ups'. It's familiar, but there's so much more to it. The prose is much more evocative and descriptive; there are little jokes and asides, historical details and background info that make the Shamutanti foothills feel like a living, breathing place.

I was impressed at how relatively little fighting I had to do – with only 6 kills, this run was my lowest kill count since Citadel of Chaos. The emphasis is definitely on exploration, conversation and clever spellcasting. Speaking of which – unlike Scorpion Swamp, or even Citadel of Chaos – the spell mechanic doesn't feel like an afterthought. It's been really well worked out, and it's totally integral to the narrative. You can just about get through without casting spells, but the game is so much more satisfying when you do. It also means you'll be combing voraciously through the wares of every last shop and merchant you find, hoping to find one of the items that might open up a new spell...

The Verdict – The app
So, now the app specifically. Is it better than the print version? No, I'm not sure it is. There's a lot to be said for the print experience; sitting down with a book in one hand, making notes and maps with the other. You could do the same with the app version I suppose, but it'd feel totally redundant – and the app taking this admin stuff over feels a bit of a loss, to me. I also preferred the book's really clever mechanic of having to memorise the spellbook, and the way it gently punished you for getting your spells wrong; having it all at your fingertips to check at any time can feel a bit like cheating. Similarly, you can re-do any fights you lose (or even just re-attempt fights where you lost health), and even rewind to previous points of the game if you decide you've done badly. You don't have to use those functions, of course, but it's pretty hard to resist...!

So is it worse than the print version? Absolutely, definitely not. The interactive map is amazing, and gives such a strong sense of place and progress in a way that the gamebook just can't quite manage. The music is superb, but the ambient soundtrack might be even better – the calling of crows, the distant howling of wolves, the trickling of rivers and susurration of trees really plunging you into the world of the game. The battles are so much more satisfying than just rolling a couple of dice; the text and the music make it a much more immersive experience. And while I was never the biggest fan of John Blanche's artwork, I do love that the game has kept all those original illustrations, as well as using them as inspiration for all the new additions.

It arguably perhaps feels a bit short for a game that costs £4.99, but then it's only one part of a 4-part adventure that gets bigger and grander with each installment, and the replay value is huge. Shamutanti Hills sticks very close to the parent book, but the later installments apparently expand the adventures quite a bit. So not better, not worse – just very, very different, in all the best possible ways. A complimentary experience to the book. I'd heartily recommend either. 8.5 combat dice out of 10
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 08 June, 2022, 05:00:58 PM
That's very cool, I might have to give that a go!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 June, 2022, 05:02:33 PM
Great writeup DJ!

I haven't played these forever and I've never owned them - in fact I think I may have only played book 2. This looks really good and well worth a go and £4.99 isn't too bad a price compared to some of the prices I've seen old gamebooks going for (even though physical books are better). I also am not a fan of John Blanche artwork, but he's certainly got a recognisable style and I'm glad he's not been replaced:the changing of the art in the newer FF reprints is absolutely blasphemous even if the likes of Blanche and Ian Miller aren't exactly child-friendly.

I like the fact that your list of 'magical artifacts' includes besswax, a cloth hat, glue, teeth and some pebbles. I never knew how rich in magical artifacts I was myself!

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Leigh S on 08 June, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Blanche is a genius! He is Games Workshop's McMahon to McCaigs Bolland (and Gary Chalk's Ron Smith?)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 08 June, 2022, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 08 June, 2022, 05:02:33 PM
I like the fact that your list of 'magical artifacts' includes besswax, a cloth hat, glue, teeth and some pebbles. I never knew how rich in magical artifacts I was myself!

Now, how good is my spell memory...the beeswax is for a spell that sharpens your sword, the glue creates a patch of sticky ground (I think), the teeth are for either creating goblins (GOB) or a giant (YOB) (depends on the type of teeth), the pebbles can be turned into explosive rocks and the cloth hat I'm not sure about. Maybe an ESP spell?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 June, 2022, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 08 June, 2022, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 08 June, 2022, 05:02:33 PM
I like the fact that your list of 'magical artifacts' includes besswax, a cloth hat, glue, teeth and some pebbles. I never knew how rich in magical artifacts I was myself!

Now, how good is my spell memory...the beeswax is for a spell that sharpens your sword, the glue creates a patch of sticky ground (I think), the teeth are for either creating goblins (GOB) or a giant (YOB) (depends on the type of teeth), the pebbles can be turned into explosive rocks and the cloth hat I'm not sure about. Maybe an ESP spell?

5/5,  Funt!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 June, 2022, 07:25:07 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 08 June, 2022, 05:02:33 PM
This looks really good and well worth a go and £4.99 isn't too bad a price compared to some of the prices I've seen old gamebooks going for (even though physical books are better).

I pretty much immediately bought Sorcery! 2, and burnt through it at a rate of knots. As good as this was, the next one's even better!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 08 June, 2022, 09:15:58 PM
Looking forward to that write-up!

I didn't like Blanche's art when I was a kid but now I think it's fabulous. I think Scholastic Books have replaced it though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 09 June, 2022, 02:34:59 AM
Deathtrap Dungeon

Skill: 9      
Stamina: 17      
Luck: 11
Potion: Fortune



Trap #1 – Spore Ball
Despite my misgivings, I crawled over the spore ball rather than attacked it, because whoever was in front of me must have done the same thing.

Trap #2 – Oven Tunnel
I drank the clear liquid, which made me immune to the extreme heat. (This was nerve-wracking as drinking any unidentified liquids in dungeons can curse you horribly or even kill you.)

Trap #3 – Pit Room
I looked through the little window before entering, so I could see there was a pit behind the door. I leapt over, grabbed the rope and moved on. Lucky there wasn't a secondary trap.

Trap #4 – Orc Ambush
I got surprised and hit in the leg before fighting two orcs to the death. Despite my mediocre skill with a blade, I managed to beat them without being wounded further.

Trap #5 – Goblet Shrine
The spikey, spring-loaded floor trap has already done for one of the barbarians, and I'm left pondering whether or not to drink the red liquid in the goblet. Red is a sign of danger, and the last liquid I drank was beneficial, so this seems too dangerous and I skip it. I do rummage through the barbarian's loin-cloth and eat some of the dried meat I found in there. That doesn't sound wise, but it was pretty tasty and I felt better for it.

Trap #6 – Bejeweled Idol Cavern
I climb up (using my rope) and pry out one of the emerald eyes of the giant statue. I get horribly mauled by two flamingo-golems, only surviving by praying to Sindla. I am about to pry out the second eye when I get a vivid vision of my own ghastly death, and decide against it. I retrieve my rope and move on after eating some provisions, and drinking my potion.

Trap #7 – Flooding Chamber
I answer incorrectly to a disembodied voice, and the room fills with water. I manage to smash through the door and escape.

Trap #8 – Giant Fly Brooding Chamber
I disturb a nest of giant maggots (to retrieve a well-crafted dagger) and am attacked by their enormous mother, who I dispatch.

Trap #9 – The Petrifying Riddle-Master
A powerful mage has turned the knight (another contestant) into stone. I must answer his riddle to escape the same fate. It is a logic puzzle, which I solve, and I am rewarded and sent on my way.

Trap #10 – Animated Skeleton
I fight an animated skeleton for a scroll that warns of danger from a manticore's tail.

Trap #11 – Skull & Crossbows
An elaborate trap is circumvented as I use the supplied bowling balls to knock the skull from the plinth – my reward is two gems.

Trap #12 – Mirror Demon
I smash one of the mirrors giving strength to the demon, which dismisses it – but I am badly wounded in my sword arm, and am not sure how long I will survive in this weakened state.

Trap #13 – Dwarven Taskmaster
I have been badly wounded in a fierce battle with a cave troll. The taskmaster I have beaten at dice, and managed to defeat his cobra. When I come to fight the fearsome minotaur in the arena, though, I am bested, and bleed to death on the dusty floor.


Post-Match Interview

There's a game – FTL – that punishes you for making stupid decisions, which sort of teaches you the rules of the game, so that next time you play you're better. Like, it's possible to beam your crew onto a computer-controlled enemy ship – only to find that it has no oxygen and your crew are suffocating. You look at the little dial that indicates how long they've got, as it rapidly reduces. You look at the little dial that is powering up to your next use of the teleporter and realize it's not moving as rapidly. Even before they all die and you lose the game, you can see it happening in slow motion, and you know you cannot help them. Won't make that mistake again.

In Deathtrap Dungeon, your death is so random. There's that fucking idol with one death-eye! You need to avoid the initial 50/50 option and then, assuming you survive the two guardians, you get offered it again. Chance of avoiding death from this trap through coin-flipping your options is 25%. I only survived here through prior knowledge. There is a notion of quit while you're ahead with treasures, so maybe going for the second eye is too greedy, but it's just a coin flip to survive at all.  I suppose the book's title should have warned me!

Ultimately, there are lots of high skill monster fights in this one, so it feels like a skill of 9 just isn't going to cut it – mine got reduced down to 8 by the time I faced the minotaur, and I'd drained all my luck defeating the cave troll.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 09 June, 2022, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 June, 2022, 02:34:59 AM
In Deathtrap Dungeon, your death is so random. There's that fucking idol with one death-eye! You need to avoid the initial 50/50 option and then, assuming you survive the two guardians, you get offered it again. Chance of avoiding death from this trap through coin-flipping your options is 25%. I only survived here through prior knowledge. There is a notion of quit while you're ahead with treasures, so maybe going for the second eye is too greedy...

The artwork does clue you in as to which eye is the safe one... but I agree with you, a stupidly hard (and unfair book).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 June, 2022, 10:48:23 AM
It's definitely an unfair book, but I prefer it to say, Snow Witch where it's masses of extremely tough fights rather than insta-deathtraps.

I've been thinking about this over the course of the last couple of books: why did I find DD fun, but CotSW and HoH less so? All three are extremely difficult with one narrow, pre-determined path that must be followed to finish.

I'm going to say myabe it's a combination of theme and nostalgia. DD is dripping with thematic awesomeness - from the lovely art to the setting and a whole concept that says yeah, this is going to be brutally unfair. It's a puzzle that requires unlocking through foreknowledge, like that film where Tom Cruise is fighting some aliens and keeps dying over and over.
HoH is also very thematic, but I guess I just didn't buy into that theme as much. It's still a puzzle and it's actually much cleverer than DD but I just didn't find it as satisfying. And the art is bogus.
CotSW kind of falls between the two. A lot of it's difficulty came from repeated horrible battles: I think of the three it was the least satisfying for me to complete. I felt less like I'd solved a puzzle and more like I'd finished a gruelling long distance race. Typing this now I think I found being brutally killed a dozen times in DD to be part of the fun, whereas in the other books I found it a bit frustrating.

It'd be foolish to say that nostalgia though isn't a factor: I played DD hundreds of times as a kid and although I did play HoH I didn't like it, so I came into it on a bit of a downer. I'd never tackled Shareella before so I was coming at that book purely as an adult (a nerdy one on a gamebook binge, but nonetheless).

Anyway - nice writeup Funt and I liked it being broken down into challenges / traps. I'm impressed you got passed the Idol room, foreknowledge or not, which I think killed everyone else on this thread.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 09 June, 2022, 03:32:18 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 09 June, 2022, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 June, 2022, 02:34:59 AM
In Deathtrap Dungeon, your death is so random. There's that fucking idol with one death-eye! You need to avoid the initial 50/50 option and then, assuming you survive the two guardians, you get offered it again. Chance of avoiding death from this trap through coin-flipping your options is 25%. I only survived here through prior knowledge. There is a notion of quit while you're ahead with treasures, so maybe going for the second eye is too greedy...

The artwork does clue you in as to which eye is the safe one... but I agree with you, a stupidly hard (and unfair book).

I was looking at that, but I couldn't figure out which left they meant - my left (sitting on the bridge of its nose, facing towards it?) or its left. And is the art depicting score marks, or gem sparkle? I'm still none the wiser.

(https://sevenfourteenseven.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/deathtrap-dungeon-idol.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 June, 2022, 12:41:44 AM
Quote from: Richard on 08 June, 2022, 09:15:58 PM
I didn't like Blanche's art when I was a kid but now I think it's fabulous. I think Scholastic Books have replaced it though.
I was wrong about this, I've just seen Scholastic's The Crown of Kings in Forbidden Planet and it still has Blanche's art... although they don't seem to have reproduced it very clearly.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 10 June, 2022, 11:08:11 PM
Island of the Lizard King

Skill: 12      
Stamina: 24      
Luck: 7
Potion: Fortune



Specimen #1 – Gigas Brachyura
The rumors are true, then! A crab grown to gigantic proportions (which, unfortunately, murdered poor Mungo) as a by-product, no doubt, of the alchemical experiments of the Lizard King. As with its smaller brethren, this version also burrows in the sand to escape the day's heat. I dispatch it, for safety reasons (and to stop it from mauling Mungo's corpse) – the beast is strong, and draws blood.

Specimen #2 – Paludis Hoppius
A small, amphibious humanoid beckons me follow it across the marshes of the deep jungle. He is an agile fellow, and I have difficulty maintaining the pace. When he changes direction for deeper water, I opt to strike out alone.

Specimen #3 – Gigas Sanguisuga
Fascinating, yet acutely painful – I am infested with enormous swamp leeches and forced to dissuade them with salt from my rations. Like the crab on the beach – these are beyond the normal limits of size witnessed thus far in the known realms. I must sketch one!

Specimen #4 – Gigas Lacerta
Above the swamp lands, and into the rocky foothills of the island's volcano – I am set upon by yet another gigantiform – this a hungry lizard! I am protected by a helmet I found by chance, and so the battle goes well for me. The creature was an adult male, and this is to the good – it would not do for me to depopulate the island.

Specimen #5 – Ingens Veru Rubeta
Attempting to quench my thirst at a watering hole, I am confronted with a mega-toad which spits acidic venom as an introduction. I wish to study the creature but it lollops towards me intent on having a meal, so I am forced to dispatch another of this fascinating island's fauna.

Specimen #6 – Lacerta Bipedalis (Ignis Insula)
While lizard folk are common enough on the mainland, these specimens are a particularly hardy breed, and have set themselves up in the slave trade. While magnificent, I cannot let them stand in the way of the free passage of naturalism, and quickly put them out of their misery. I calculate that a full examination of the island cannot be achieved without the removal of the local hegemony, and so aim to foment a popular uprising.

Specimen #7 – Ursus Arctos Horribilis
Evidence, while I am slightly mauled by a ravenous grizzly, that normal-sized fauna exists alongside the mutations. So, have the mutations occurred only to particular species? The grizzly was malnourished, though: perhaps the oversized mutations are reducing the available nutrients of the island?

Specimen #8 – Collis Troglodytarum
While I seek a feather to tie in my hair in order to introduce myself to the hermit shaman, who knows how to remove the power of the Gonchong from the Lizard King, and thus enable the popular uprising of the slaves I freed from the mines – I almost run directly into a hungry hill troll, and am forced into another fight for my very life!

Specimen #9 – Novacula Maxilla
Like nothing I have ever seen before – a sulfur-loving batch of large, leathery eggs that, upon my approach, hatched a hideous, razor-toothed, eyeless serpent – intent on me as its first meal. Its lightning speed meant that, without the well-wrought helmet I found earlier, I would surely have perished on its initial assault.

Specimen #10 – Ingens Spicatae Lacertae
Worse than a lizard folk warrior, is one mounted on an enormous, armored lizard reminiscent of a rhinoceros but with its own natural gorget! My entreaties to parley are not heeded, and I find myself once again tending to my own wounds while bemoaning the loss of a fabulous brace of specimens.

Specimen #11 – Circulus Luscus
Taking part in the uprising, I take note of a singular creature – an enormous humanoid with but a single eye positioned immediately above its nose. Unfortunately, it also took an interest in attempting to dissect me with a battle axe at least twice my height. Bleeding and grazed, I stand atop the fabulous corpse and rally my insurrectionists. For naturalism!

Specimen #12 – Niger Leo
The Lizard-King is protected by a fierce pet – an over-sized, black-furred lion, which I meet in a fight to the death! I emerge badly mauled, but having dispatched the beast. Now I must face its owner...

Notes from a bloodied journal sold in Port Blacksand.


Post-Match Interview
What a roll for skill and stamina! My luck was the lowest, at 7 – but I actually succeeded in my first six luck roles, and gained the occasional point back. Blessed by Sindla, apparently.

When I found the Shaman, I failed one of his tests and so he didn't tell me the secrets of how to defeat the Gonchong. I didn't know if that meant I would lose the book, but figured I'd carry on and see if I could remember what to do from playing this book in years past.

Unfortunately, I didn't find myself a fire sword and, when my monkey scared the Lizard-King, I failed my luck test and was murdered! That low luck eventually did for me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 June, 2022, 11:18:35 PM
So near to the end too! I'm indignant at the sheer injustice!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 June, 2022, 10:03:58 AM
Brilliant take on one of my favourite gamebooks!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 12 June, 2022, 05:18:55 PM
FF11: Talisman of Death

I've never played this book before, having bought it just this week. I know nothing about it, except Mr Boots' playthrough above, and I've forgotten all the choices he made. I start with skill 10, stamina 21, luck 7 and the Potion of Fortune.

After collecting the Talisman of Death I am offered the choice between heading though a forest, or taking a more direct route through an open plain. Since I already have hundreds of baddies looking for me, I choose the forest where I will be concealed, instead of the riskier plain. I encounter a wolf, and given several options I elect to offer it food, for which the book rewards me with more food. I then encounter a band of warrior-women, and given four options of how to handle them I choose a pretty terrible one which results in them confiscating my sword (for a loss of 2 skill points) and, a couple of paragraphs later, the Talisman!

Since my mission is to take the Talisman back to Earth with me, away from the world of Orb, this is something of a setback. But I remember that this happened to BB too, and he got it back, so I am not disheartened. The Street of Seven Sins sounds appealing, so I go that way and am attacked by an invisible monster. Fortunately I had the sense to throw some blood-stained sawdust at it as it was advancing, so I can sort of see it well enough to fight it. Nevertheless I still lose 12 stamina points, even though I had one more skill point than it did! I eat some provisions, and then get attacked by a Death Knight with a Skill of 10! With defeat looming, I am rescued by an unlikely rescuer, and pick up a magic sword, restoring my own skill. This is a surprisingly forgiving development, and not the only one like it in this book.

Walking along the street, someone drops a charm on the floor in front of me, without noticing. Given the choice between stealing it for myself and handing it to its owner, I do the right thing and am rewarded with a luck point -- but in the very next place I go to, as soon as I arrive I am asked if I have this very same charm. Did I just fuck up? Well I am not cheating on this playthrough, so I grit my teeth and venture into the Red Dragon Inn with no charm except that with which I was born. This inn turns out to be the roughest dive you could ever hope not to blunder into, full of scumbags, thieves and murderers. Fortunately the barman warns me about who to steer clear of, and I chat to some much nicer thieves who tell me where I can find the Thieves' Guild, and we agree to meet there tomorrow. After all, I am going to need some help getting the Talisman back. Leaving the inn, I am rewarded with a luck point just for making it out of there alive!

The next day I go to the Guild (and there is a clever anti-cheating device here to filter out people who have not learned where it is). I meet the Guildmaster, and out of four possible options of things to say to him I manage to choose one that gets me killed instantly! However, instead of the adventure ending, I am directed to another paragraph, where the gods of Orb give me another life! With my scores back to their Initial levels I am transported back in time to earlier in the adventure, with the Talisman back in my possession!

(This reminds me of Night of the Necromancer, where there is a similar resurrection device. It feels right, in terms of plot, because it was already established in the introduction that I am a tool of the gods, so it's not such a cop-out as in The Forest of Doom where if you make it through the forest without both parts of the hammer you just walk round to the beginning and pop back in.)

This time I decide to explore a different route through the book. That turns out to be a stupid mistake, because instead of repeating my very sensible and prudent choice of travelling through the woods where I can't be seen, I decide to travel through the open plain, where I am pursued by dozens of orcs and Dark Elves. Too many to fight, I somehow manage to stay ahead of them until I run into the band of warrior-women I met last time. This time I am more careful about what I say, and they let me keep my sword and the Talisman, and escort me to the city.

In the city, I go down different streets to last time, and I collect some chainmail. An Envoy of Death tries to take the Talisman from me, and this time I manage to hold on to it. This encounter is described very well, and is an example of one of the strengths of this book -- there is generally better description all round, and it really brings this world to life. It's just fun to read.

However, not long after that I fall into a trap in which the Talisman is taken from me (after all that effort!). Someone rescues me, and offers me bread and board for the night, but the book insinuates that he is not to be trusted, so I decline and sleep rough instead. I am then murdered by an Ogre. This time I am not offered another life, and so my adventure ends here. (Looking back at BB's playthrough, I should have accepted the help!)

This book is really good. As I've said, it is written well. I am pleased that every choice you are offered is a real choice, with obvious pros and cons, instead of the "left or right?" nonsense in some other books. In some encounters you are offered more than two choices, and frequently as many as four. The art is excellent, and flicking though the book there are some great and intriguing pictures, although so far I have managed to avoid succumbing to the temptation to read about them, since I am trying to preserve the mystery of this book for as long as possible, and to complete it legitimately. It's very enjoyable, and I would recommend it to people who don't already have it. There are not too many fights (so far), and the fights are not unfair, although the Envoy of Death does take a skill point for every time he wounds you (but you get all but one of them back if you win).

I did not do nearly as well as Barrington did on his first go, but I did feel that I was starting to make progress. I'm going to give it another go now, although I might not write it up today.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 12 June, 2022, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 11 June, 2022, 10:03:58 AM
Brilliant take on one of my favourite gamebooks!

I wouldn't have place Island of the Lizard King so highly prior to starting this play through, but it's a really solid book that tends to punish you a little for not always having the correct item, without killing you outright. Plus, you're on a noble quest.

Ranking the first seven books:

1st: Island of the Lizard King
2nd: City of Thieves (loses first place because there's a vampire living with Zanbar Bone)
3rd: Deathtrap Dungeon (does what it says on the tin, which can be frustrating)
4th: Forest of Doom (I like the dynamic of circling around for another go)
5th: The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
6th: Citadel of Chaos
7th: Starship Traveller (too many random encounters)

---

Nice write up on Talisman, Richard. I'm looking forward to getting to that one.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 12 June, 2022, 07:27:39 PM
Scorpion Swamp

Skill: 9
Stamina: 17
Luck: 11


(https://i.imgur.com/xU6nAdt.png)


Post-Match Interview
Well, the sword trees got me the second time around, when I was forced to encounter them! I don't really like the structure of this book - it is interesting to see an attempt to allow you to retrace your steps, but it removes a lot of the narrative agility of the other books.

As far as the adventure, the Master of Wolves was a bit of dick, then leeches did D6+1 damage, then the sword trees were tough as nuts (basically, the exact stats I had, so I lucked through the first fight), but retreating from the dire beast in the dead end clearing made it so I had to face them again. Deadly!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 June, 2022, 09:42:01 AM
Some great writeups there. Glad you enjoyed Talisman Richard - it is written well and the choices feel like 'real' choices, so much so as when there was a bit near the end where I was offered a 'go left or right' choice I felt a little nervous because it was the first uninformed choice I'd had to make.
Look forward to hearing how it goes with your next try!

Intrigued by Funt's ranking I think I'd go with (from the ones I've played so far):

Deathtrap Dungeon
City of Thieves
Talisman of Death
Island of the Lizard King
Forest of Doom
Caverns of the Snow Witch
Citadel of Chaos
Scorpion Swamp
House of Hell
The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
Starship Traveller

Not an easy task to rank them as beyond the bottom three I've enjoyed them all.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 June, 2022, 11:37:40 AM
SPACE ASSASSIN

This is another new one for me and there's a new stat this time: armour, which blocks enemy hits but also degrades with each hit. My starting armour is a meagre 7 but I then have to roll for my starting gear and get 12, so I decide to take a massive gun and increase my armour a bit. Having a random roll determine the quality of my starting equipment feels a bit Chainsaw Warrior (if anyone has played that), but I think I did ok here.

The backstory is that an evil scientist overlord type is going to use my planet for some vile experiment and I. as a crack assassin, need to get onboard his ship and bump him off. Without further ado the mission is underway. I stealthily board Cyrus's ship, the Vandervecken. Finding myself in a cargo bay I recover an odd device from corpse before entering a maintenance hatch and making my way into the ship. I drop out of a hatch, eliminate a guard robot and investigate the cells - one contains a battered old prisoner who clues me up (a little) on the ships pilot, the other a horrible little monster that damages my armour. My next stop is a lab where I ambush a pair of rodent scientists and steal their security keys, which enables me to get out of the maintenance ducts and into the ship proper. I easily defeat another security robot, find a safe with three buttons, press one of them at random and am immediately blown up and killed. GAME OVER.

Annoyed by that arbitrary sudden death I decide to 'rewind' and this time skip the safe altogether and exit via the security door. I push on through the ship, reading a book on molluscs and letting some strange alien squirrels loose. I am randomly attacked by some cleaners, who are surprisingly tough and utterly psychotic despite being armed only with vacuum cleaners - I'm not joking, this fight is horrible - their moderate skill scores mean I am taking 2 /3 hits a round until I start whittling their numbers down a bit which reduce me from 21 stamina to 9, despite not missing a single attack (and the cleaners missing several) and I am forced to eat a load of energy bars to recover.
Having vanquished the mighty cleaners I press on down the corridor until it terminates and I am forced to crawl back into the maintenance hatch which eventually leads me to a floating path over some countryside that is still within this ship..? I follow this path to discover a strange lab where one of Cyrus's victims has been experimented upon: he gives me a vague FF-esque clue of always taking the centre path before passing out. I return to the ship, wipe out a couple of guards with my grenade, eat their sandwiches, then follow the victims advice (I think) to cross another hazard before running into a heavily armored, disintegrator-armed alien who requires me to answer a riddle to proceed. I was able to solve this (after a long think), once again take the centre path into a room with some floating black blobs of energy.  I try to dodge through them only to get immediately blown up again. GAME OVER AGAIN.

Out of the handful of FF books I picked up on ebay for this thread this one was the cheapest and I think I know why: it's not very good. It's not terrible, but it feels quite basic: it was, in effect, a dungeon crawl but on a spaceship, and the sci-fi elements didn't really feel that baked in either - it felt a little like a white label dungeon with a sci-fi skin over the top. The writing isn't great and there's very little atmosphere. Likewise my being an assassin wasn't really a factor as I just sort of blundered around answering riddles (there are several of these) and having super brief interactions with anyone who didn't shoot me on sight.
The extra rules for gunfights and armour sounded good, but were actually annoying as it meant loads of extra dice-rolling: in a gunfight I would roll for me to hit, roll damage, then roll for him to hit, roll armour - that's four rolls instead of two under the melee system and I forgot to roll armour when in my one melee fight with the cleaners which might have made it less deadly but would meant an extra 2 - 3 rolls per round as I fought three guys at once. By contrast I had to test my luck just once during the entire game.

I did play the book again over the weekend and was insta-killed another three times before getting to the end, which was a pretty derisory battle with Cyrus. In the end I discovered that the best bet is simply not to touch anything, as almost every time you're asked to pull switch A or B etc one of them is an insta-kill paragraph with absolutely no indication of which will kill you. If you do this, you can whip through the book pretty quickly. Terribly, paragraph 400 is only THREE SENTENCES LONG, one of which is 'Congratulations'. There's very little immersion or atmosphere in the book and this rubbish ending just about put the cherry on top. Oh, and I didn't even kill Cyrus, just captured him. What?

It's not all bad as the art here is really good and far better than in Starship Traveller. Lovely Chris Achilleos cover and the interior art is by the Prog (and Transformers) own Geoff Senior. Lots of great linework and unsurprisingly his robots, spaceships and future tech looks fantastic. I did like his picture of the psychotic cleaners. Flicking through there also seem to be a number of tentacles and squid monsters that I never encountered (that book on molluscs must have been useful after all!)

I was looking forward to this one, but art aside this is up there with Starship Traveller as the worst book in the series so far. It's very lightweight, contains a lot of unfair feeling deaths, and coming straight after HoH and ToD feels like a bit of a dud. I think it'd rank #11 out of 12 with these being a long way behind the other ten.
The familiar pages of Freeway Fighter is up next.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 14 June, 2022, 03:30:56 AM
Caverns of the Snow Witch

Skill: 8 [oh noes!]      
Stamina: 23      
Luck: 12
Potion: Fortune


House Rules
I know this one's a stinker on a low skill, due to the number of high stat enemies that you have to face, so I'm going to use a house rule that I've seen suggested. If I find an item that increases SKILL I'll allow it to go above my initial skill, up to a maximum of 12. I want to roleplay it, so if it's a weapon, then it'll increase my skill for combat (effectively a boost to attack strength), but if it's a skill test then I'll not apply the weapon bonus.

Apart from anything, this makes for a better user experience – it's a bummer when you get a boosted item if the boost doesn't apply because you haven't had the misfortune to lose any skill points yet. Like, it's a magic weapon, but you're preternaturally shit with a sword so the magic doesn't work on you. Capping at 12 seems reasonable, though – however magic your weapon, you can only get so good.

I'm also going to limit myself to one provision per entry, for recouping lost stamina. It feels silly, if you can just over-eat your way out of a health crisis.


Playthrough
Of course I walk over the ice bridge – it's more cinematic that way! It also adds tension, because I nearly slip and fall, and it cracks a bit – but my luck holds. Then, from out of the swirling mist – two snow wolves stalk me! I "do a Neeson" and take them on. I crawl away, barely alive, leaving a bloody trail on the snow.

A blizzard starts up (truly the path ahead of me is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own herd, as Blackadder would say), so I dig a snow shelter and wait for it to die down before moving on the next day. I raid a trapper's hut for extra weapons and a hot meal before following his tracks up the mountain – where I come face to face with a sad-faced yeti. I spear the beast, then hack it to death with my sword as it claws at me. I am barely alive, but the trapper has fared worse.

Rather than go back to Big Jim and claim my fifty gold pieces, for some reason I can't fathom I feel compelled to go into some evil witch's lair in the mountains that the dying trapper told me about. I meet an elf slave of the witch, who gives me his cloak as a disguise, and I get some cake given to me by a gnome in the kitchens. These ice caves are quite homely, really.

Not wanting to get in trouble, I stealth my way past some ice demon worshipers, rescue a dwarf, freak out an illusionist, get what I just *know* is a useless promise from a genie, run past a giant and then come face to face with a crystal golem that looks much more deadly than me. And so it proves.


Post-Match Interview
My first combat encounter, with the two snow wolves, brings me down to 5 stamina and 9 luck. I feel like I'm fucked before I even get started – and I know there's a tough as nuts yeti not too far off. Time to start nomming on some provisions. (Of course, the book then steals two of my provisions in a blizzard – fuck you, Sir Ian!)

I know from reading others' playthroughs that the war-hammer actually makes your life tougher later on (as it stops you from getting a genie-wish or something), but I pick up the weapons from the trapper's hut anyway because I also know that the spear is useful in my more immediate yeti encounter.

Well, as others have discovered, it's not really possible to complete this book without a higher skill setting at the outset.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 14 June, 2022, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 June, 2022, 03:30:56 AM
I know this one's a stinker on a low skill, due to the number of high stat enemies that you have to face, so I'm going to use a house rule that I've seen suggested. If I find an item that increases SKILL I'll allow it to go above my initial skill, up to a maximum of 12. I want to roleplay it, so if it's a weapon, then it'll increase my skill for combat (effectively a boost to attack strength), but if it's a skill test then I'll not apply the weapon bonus.

Apart from anything, this makes for a better user experience – it's a bummer when you get a boosted item if the boost doesn't apply because you haven't had the misfortune to lose any skill points yet.

I love this as a homebrew rule. It doesn't even feel like cheating, as skill-increasing items are hardly the most common of things - but at least now, if you roll a 7 or 8 Skill, it's going to feel like you have some kind of prospect of improvement ahead of you.


Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 June, 2022, 03:30:56 AM
I know from reading others' playthroughs that the war-hammer actually makes your life tougher later on (as it stops you from getting a genie-wish or something)...

The only time in the whole book that the bloody genie actually comes good is in the fight with the Crystal Warrior, where he takes it out for you instantly - but only if you don't have the warhammer. If you do, then you have to fight it yourself, in which case the genie becomes the most useless aid it's possible to pick up! A truly bizarre bit of gamebook design which should never have made it past the first edit, frankly.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 14 June, 2022, 05:58:06 PM
Harsh, but totally fair criticism of Space Assassin. The art is glorious though.

Brave to attempt Snow Witch on a low skill. It's a good house rule, but frankly you're better off cheating -- after all, if the book doesn't play fair then why should you?

Talisman of Death, playthroughs 2 to 5

Playthrough 2:

Skill 12, Stamina 15, Luck 8, Potion of Fortune.

Having worked out the best route to the city on my last playthrough, I follow that route until I reach the Envoy of Death, who demands my Talisman. Last time, I fought this guy and kept the Talisman, only to unavoidably lose it on the next encounter. Since I now know I'm going to lose the Talisman whatever I do, it  makes sense to just hand it over -- or so I thought! He instantly kills me with it! This time the gods don't bring me back to life, so that's that.

Playthrough 3:

I roll new stats to make it legitimate (9-19-11, oops!), but instead of starting at the beginning I just carry on from the point where I left off. I fight the envoy, kill him without being wounded, and from there I soon reach the point where I got up to at the end of my first playthrough. This time I go with the man who rescues me from the man-trap, who turns out to be a friendly Sage. He sends me to the Red Dragon Inn, which I go through the same way as last time since that at least worked out for me, and then go back to the Sage for dinner. He tells me how to get back to Earth. Progress at last!

Now I go to the Thieves' Guild, and this time I manage to get them to help me. We infiltrate a temple where the stolen Talisman is being held, and I lose a Luck point for letting my new allies gratuitously murder someone. We find the Talisman and the evil High Priestess who has it, and the thieves leave me to it. She immediately sets me on fire, and then moves in for the kill. Her Skill is 12! Needless to say, I die pretty quickly.

(Having since read just about the whole book, I can say that there is no way through the book that does not involve fighting this woman, with a skill of 12 and a 1 in 3 chance of losing 6 stamina points at the start of the fight.)

Playthrough 4:

Fuck it, it's time to max out the stats: 12-24-12.

I start over, and follow what seems to me to be the best route as far as the infamous Red Dragon Inn, where I forget how I went through it the last time and accidentally pick a fight with the deadly duo of assassins from the Way of the Tiger books! Fortunately they are not actually quite as invincible as the barman had led me to believe, and I give a good enough account of myself until they decide to escape.

On my way back to see the Sage for dinner, I take a detour and find myself in a bit of a comedy skit, at the end of which I pick up a Spell of Agonising Doom -- sounds promising! I use that on the priestess and it takes 8 off her Stamina, which is handy, but she still has that same Skill score. This time I win, but at a cost of half my own Stamina. She immediately begins to come back to life, [spoiler]but I steal her Ring of Regeneration and she dies permanently. This also gives me 6 Stamina points back[/spoiler]. I escape with the Talisman! Huzzah!

I am ambushed by the two assassins from the Red Dragon, who are accompanied by a third guy, a Master of Illusion. I make all the wrong choices about which illusions are real and which are not, losing 8 Stamina as a result. I call on a goddess for aid, as advised by the Sage, and an eagle rescues me. He doesn't fly me out of the city though, the lazy git. I have to escape on foot.

Back in the wilderness, I take the most direct route to my final destination, a mountain where the portal to Earth is. I am threatened by a Wraith, and I manage to ward him off, but just after that I make a poor choice and get slaughtered by six Wraiths!

Playthrough 5:

I carry on where I left off, get past the Wraiths, get some useful advice from some friendly pig-people hybrids, and defeat a Dragon. This Dragon is not like the wuss in Firetop Mountain, he's a tough bastard, and after subsequently reading all the alternative choices I could have made, it seems like a miracle that I got past him on the first go!

Paragraph 400 says I might have to come back to Orb again. You know what? I just might! I think I'll pick up one of these Way of the Tiger books!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 14 June, 2022, 06:39:21 PM
Quote from: Richard on 14 June, 2022, 05:58:06 PM
Since I now know I'm going to lose the Talisman whatever I do, it  makes sense to just hand it over -- or so I thought! He instantly kills me with it!

Proper LOL moment.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 14 June, 2022, 06:48:05 PM
Other ideas for approaching notoriously HI-SKILL books would be to:

a. Roll 4D6 and apply the four results however you wish to your three attributes.
b. Roll 4D6, sum it and apply the summed results however you wish to your three attributes (but not going above the 12/24 cap, obs).

Not sure which I like better, but it would do something to alleviate the issue of some books just being a bit OP.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 June, 2022, 08:52:12 AM
Quote from: Richard on 14 June, 2022, 05:58:06 PM
Paragraph 400 says I might have to come back to Orb again. You know what? I just might! I think I'll pick up one of these Way of the Tiger books!

This is awesome! If you play and enjoy Avenger I'm happy to send you my 'spare' reprint copies of Assassin and Usurper (unless you'd prefer to hunt down the originals for the Bob Harvey art)

Great writeup though. Love that you loved it, and also when you handed over the Talisman to the guy who killed you. There's an item you can find before the Dragon fight that makes it a lot easier!


And on the topic of skill and Talisman of Death, I read about a guy who on that book used Funt's house rule about increasing his attack strength over starting skill but not increasing his skill for skill tests, as there's a number of skill-boosting items there that in the context of the story should make you a better fighter. It's really logical in that context.
One of the reasons I rated CotSW a bit lower than it deserved is that dying in battle because of a succession of high skill fights sucks - especially when they seem a bit illogical (I can buy DD's ninja and pit fiend fights being super tough, but CotSW has a Skill 12 bird man who is just there with no relation to the plot at all). If I've failed a couple of times due to low skill I do tend to just max my skill out for the next play. I think it's your book, you play it how you want.


Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 June, 2022, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 15 June, 2022, 08:52:12 AM
One of the reasons I rated CotSW a bit lower than it deserved is that dying in battle because of a succession of high skill fights sucks - especially when they seem a bit illogical (I can buy DD's ninja and pit fiend fights being super tough, but CotSW has a Skill 12 bird man who is just there with no relation to the plot at all).

The Bird Men are prominent antagonists in the Sorcery! series, where they infest the mountains of Kakhabad and do the biding of the Arch Mage. The third Sorcery! book came out the same year as CotSW, so I imagine it was a little tip of the hat from Ian to Steve.

Still doesn't stop him being plenty random, though. Like the useless bloody genie.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 15 June, 2022, 10:56:39 AM
QuoteIf you play and enjoy Avenger I'm happy to send you my 'spare' reprint copies of Assassin and Usurper (unless you'd prefer to hunt down the originals for the Bob Harvey art)

Very kind of you, thank you! But I think I will get the ones with the original art in them.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 June, 2022, 09:23:59 AM
I don't blame you on that one, it's what I did!

Mind you, my copy of Overlord has mysteriously become lost in the mail and I've been forced to order another copy from South Africa, of all places - the book itself cost next to nothing, postage was not cheap but still cheaper than getting a copy in the UK. I'm not sure I'll be able to get an original printing of book 6 at all, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 June, 2022, 06:10:03 PM
No work for me today so I have had a chance to play a few rounds of Freeway Fighter

There's a great little intro to this book explaining how and why the world has been reduced to Mad-Max-dom. The plague (for plague it is) has wiped out the bulk of the worlds population but must have beefed upo the survivors considrably as my STAMINA is 2d6+24 instead of 12. You also roll up stats for your car: for my first play my car was very heavily armoured and armed but I myself was super wimpy. This turned out to be not very relevant as I died quite a lot.

The story here is that I must travel from my home settlement of New Hope to the friendly settlement of San Anglo, where I will trade our grains and seeds for a huge supply of petrol. Because civilization is in ruins I will travel in a souped up car armed with rockets, machine guns and all sorts of gadgets. Leaving New Hope, my first encounter is with a guy headed to New Hope himself, who warns me not to stop at a garage ahead. I head out of the ruined town and soon find said garage - I'm not sure I'd stop at this anyway, because a fully functioning garage selling petrol in a post-disease wasteland seems a bit suspicious - so I take the guys word and speed on by out on the highway, where I'm soon attacked by the red chevy from the books cover. I wipe them out with only a single hit on my Interceptor, but soon after I realise I'm short of fuel and need to deviate from the highway. In addition 'one of New Hope's leaders' (no further info than that) calls to tell me the Sinclair, New Hope's big cheese, has been kidnapped by an evil gang of bikers and to look out for him.
I know from previous experience that fuel is the key to this book. In full Mad Max mode I spot a broken down ambulance I stop to see if I can get any petrol but it's a trap - I make hard work of the bushwhacker (my wounds reduce my skill even further) but triumph, stealing his money and weapon but for some reason make no attempt to siphon any fuel from his vehicle. I keep heading east, blast through a roadblock and gun down some more bandits. They seem to be the biker gang who've just trashed New Hope, and they're holed in a nearby town called Rockville. Given these guys have snatched Sinclair, I divert there - the bikers all charge into a single house and start blazing way at me so I calmly pull up, shrug and blow the house to matchsticks with a rocket. That's it for the bikers! I free Sinclair and off he goes with barely a word. I'm then able to salvage some tinned meat and petrol from Rockville's general store and wirecutters from the first room I check in a house - there's two rooms here and but in FF it doesn't pay to press your luck when you've found a good item in one of two doors, chests etc so I leave it and head off, deciding to keep heading East and then South towards San Anglo.

By now my fuel is running low, so I use up the petrol I'd previously scavenged and sleep in my car overnight. Next day another car randomly attacks me, but I dump oil over the road and he crashes into a ditch. I head South, dodge some maniac trying to drop debris on my car and stop to loot another crashed car, this time only for odds and ends and an angry rattlesnake. I dispatch some more attackers but pretty soon I'm out of fuel and sadly, walking back to New Hope. GAME OVER

Attempt 2 also fails - this time I take a different route and get my car modded by a friendly mechanic to make it faster in the hope that that will help, but still end up running out of petrol at the same point. Attempt 3, same thing. This is getting annoying - with no compass I'm literally just driving about aimlessly hoping to reach San Anglo till I run out of fuel, a map being the thing that I perhaps should have taken with me. No wonder the world is in ruins when chumps like me are the heroes around here.

Attempt 4 - I follow the same path to rescue Sinclair, plus this time I'm not a complete wimp so I am able to deal with the highwayman a bit easier. This time I take a less obvious route and find some guys about to engage in a race - for petrol. Now in theory this is a daft idea, as I need petrol and engaging in some kind of race should burn a load of fuel... but I know how this works so I sign up. The race precludes rockets and guns, but I soon find out nothing else.... as I speed away into the lead but my opponent fires a grenade at me! Relying on my luck I accelerate over it before it explodes and considering the gloves are now off, I dump spikes on the road, which doesn't do much, then sideswipe him, keep my nerve and accelerator jammed on to zip into the lead and luckily win the race. The petrol is mine although I notice I don't win the credits back I had to stake to take part!
I'm pretty broke now so can't afford to get my car modded by the mechanic but I'm back on familiar territory - I loot the crashed car for the spare wheel and plastic tubing, kill the snake and press on, weakened from the snakebite but feeling positive I am now on the right track.

Next day I investigate another crashed car, but lack a crowbar to break into the trunk so have the leave it. I'm then assualted by some absolute nutters who have done their truck up to be like a roman chariot. This fight is bogus - I'm only hit twice, but for 12 damage! Eventually I remember I have rockets and wreck this stupid chariot with one before, like every other car I've blasted off the road, drive off at once without checking for information, ammunition or petrol.

By now the car is in a state. I finally do manage to siphon some petrol (thank you plastic tubing) and fix my battered car up somewhat. Continuing on I'm flagged down by a lady who introduces herself as Amber - she's a scout from San Anglo sent out to look for me, but her car has been wrecked. She reveals that San Anglo is under siege from the 'Doom Dogs' who want to steal the petrol. This bit is all a direct ripoff of Mad Max 2, with the gang even being led by the Lord Humungous-alike 'The Animal' who is a musclebound masked man with a loudspeaker. I politely explain to Amber that my car is a wreck and won't last long against an army of lunatics but she cheerfully explains we're going in on foot. Ok then.

We ditch the car and sneak into the Doom Dogs camp under cover of darkness. At this point I have to make three luck checks in a row without any meaningful decision in between: my luck by now is rubbish, I blow the third test and am discovered but luckily the knuckledusters I took from the bushwhacker allow me to put down the guard silently. Using my scavenged wirecutters we get into the Doom Dogs vehicle compound (the Doom Dogs have carefully parked all their cars together) and Amber plants bombs on the lot. Time to leg it! The bombs all go off but one, and there follows a predictable dogfight with The Animal in his armoured station wagon. After a couple of passes the wagon rams us: I die here again, impaled by a spiked ram on a fluke failed skill check but at this point I've sort of had enough, so I reroll that and the two vehicles end up locked together.
Here I'm given the option of fighting Animal in hand to hand combat but the bloke looks like an absolute monster and I'm not exactly mr healthy so I decide on a close quarters gunfight with everyone blazing away from inside their locked together cars at each other. Amber and I gun down four goofs but the Animal busts out and charges me, levels me with a clothesline, hulks up for the crowd and clamps on a bear hug. As my ribs start to pop and my vision starts to fade, Amber arrives and clocks him on the head with a spanner. Instead of finishing him off we inexplicably tie him up and leave him for the rest of his gang to find (this would make more sense if I hadn't killed about a dozen guys already and he wasn't the leader of a vast gang of murderous bandits destroying the wasteland, but oh well)

Anyway - we're away and soon San Anglo, hurray! It's then attacked by more Doom Dogs, oh no! The inhabitants mill about uselessly leaving me to take charge. There's another luck test (failed again, shot again) but I repulse the attack, let the bad guys go again, and I've won!
Or not. I thought this would be the end, but no - I have to drive the tanker back.

This part of the book proves a bit perfunctory however. It may be because I've already killed nearly everyone between here and New Hope, but I have a single combat encounter on the way back - aside from a choice of sleeping in my cab or literally abandoning it overnight to sleep in a ruined motel, I think not - which results in a duel (ie comparing skill scores) with a skill 7 mook. I gun this guy down and then there's a very sudden ending which basically says 'you're back, well done! If you rescued Sinclair, double well done!' THE END.


As you can probably tell, I wasn't impressed with this book. I'd played it as a kid and remember really enjoying it - it may have been because I was really into GW's Dark Future and Mad Max films because it's really not very good. After a fairly detailed and immersive setup it's surprisingly light on details, not helped by the art which is quite flat - I'm sure I have read that the artist was asked to deliver the art at the last minute after the original comissioned artwork by another source proved unsuitable, but it's a far cry from the detailed stuff in the previous book. The adventure itself seems to go on forever, culminating in the Mad Max 2 siege before you're asked to drive back but this part only takes a few paragraphs, as though the book ran out of space and had to rush the ending - the ending itself being rather brief. The stuff with Sinclair is totally pointless and barely referred to once you've freed him apart from at the end saying 'if you did this too, extra credit' - there's no penalty for letting him die and no real interaction with him (although you need to go rescue him to get the wirecutters) Oh and it doesn't even have 400 paragraphs!
On the plus side Amber is a genuinely useful companion who doesn't get Mungo'd or blunder haplessly into traps and actually bailed me out of trouble, although she isn't really fleshed out and isn't seen again once I reach San Anglo. The race bit, although daft, was the best bit as it involves several skill checks, decisions and short, terse paragraphs that gives a feel of being under pressure and needing to make quick decisions.

Then there's the fuel situation - I get what the book was going for, but what it turns out is essentially three checkpoints where you have to have the fuel to continue and therefore three true paths to follow in each part. I suppose it's not much different to getting to the end of a dungeon / forest / castle only for someone to ask you if you've got three keys / gems / bits of a hammer etc but I found it pretty frustrating.

Overall then, not very atmospheric or immersive and sadly not one I enjoyed much. Perhaps I will have more luck with TEMPLE OF TERROR.



Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 21 June, 2022, 07:55:05 PM
Nice playthrough. I enjoyed Freeway Fighter back in the say - but, probably same as you, that would have been heavily influenced by fondness for the Mad Max and Car Wars franchises. The racing part is interesting - and the sort of thing Car Wars focusses on - that really the combat is often an organized death sport.

My sister spectated the Finke (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLIQABWm2mg) race in Oz this year, and reckoned it was the go.

Slightly off topic, but I was mapping Island of the Lizard King for a project, and I noticed that one of the immediately negative items you pick up then comes in handy twice, later in the book. I like that design.

Probably Freeway Fighter would be more interesting if they stole even more from Mad Max and had an extended sequence in a war-rig. I've been imagining that would make a good computer game along the lines of Bomber Crew or FTL.

Oh no - now I've got to re-watch these. (https://youtu.be/UtjGTrVwRr4)..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 21 June, 2022, 09:05:34 PM
That write-up is more entertaining than the actual book! I remember getting very frustrated with it after running out of fuel numerous times, instead of being defeated by a monster or a trap or whatever-- such an anti-climax!

My first Way of the Tiger book has arrived so I'll probably do that one next.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 June, 2022, 06:52:31 PM
Sorcery! – Kharé, Cityport of Traps

The Playthrough – Lower Kharé
(https://i.imgur.com/diuzWQd.jpg?1)

The roaring of the manticore still rings in my ears as the mighty city walls of Kharé finally loom into view. Outside I share a ration with a fairly affable beggar, and we're soon chatting away like old friends. It's from Tomas (for such is his name) that I learn it's as hard to get into Kharé as it is to get out again. There's only one South gate, guarded by a whole regiment of gaurds; and one North gate, locked by a spell, proverbially impossible to open. I can't believe that. There must be a way, or all is lost. Tomas and I – he with his password, me with my key – help each other get inside the city. Slipping through the gates first, Tomas breaks into a run, leading the guard (deliberately or otherwise) away from the yard. I seize my chance to duck into the city myself, trying not to think about the fact I might never emerge from inside these walls again – but if I can't survive the admittedly infamous streets of Kharé, I was never going to survive the Fortress of Mampang anyway.

The guard catch me on the backfoot, returning before I've even left the yard, and I'm forced to duck into the only building in sight. It looks to be a prison, and the door is locked, of course – but what's a locked door to a master of sorcery...? The only prisoner inside is an old man with one arm, who seems less bothered about being locked up than he is delighted to have someone to play swindlestones with. When I admit I don't know the game, he takes it upon himself to give me a crash course.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZhzfGRD.jpg?1)

[Swindlestones is a new addition for the app. You'll spend  a lot of time playing this highly addictive but sometimes frustrating minigame, beloved of both lowborn and highborn denizens of Kharé. A bit like Liar's Dice, it's a great way to win some gold and – most importantly – gossip. The Sorcery! 2 app adds in a 'clue' section to your inventory. Everyone loves a gossip while playing swindlestones, and by playing lots of games, you can learn all sorts of interesting things about the city that'll help you in your mission. The higher the bids and the longer the game goes on, the more useful the conversation – so sometimes you'll have to weigh calling your opponent's bid in the near-certainty he's bluffing; or choosing to ignore the bluff (and maybe sacrifice a win) to keep the conversation going. You can also get clues just by talking to people, or by keeping an ear open as you wander the city.] I learn a bit more about the North Gate and its spell – only the City Nobles know the spell, and the spell lines were split between them for safety. So I've got my work cut out for me. That's four separate Nobles (and their spell-lines) to locate, as well as the right order...

(https://i.imgur.com/2nh3amX.jpg?1)

When things have quietened down outside, I take the opportunity to slip out, turning downhill and putting as much distance between me and the Gates as possible. When I happen across a lonely inn, I duck inside. Being used to the prices asked in the villages of the Shamutanti foothills, the going rate for a room here in Kharé  makes my eyes water. As the innkeep says 'Try sleeping outside for a night, and you'll soon see why the rooms cost what they do.' Keen to put my new skills to the test, I offer to play him at swindlestones for the price of the room. I trounce him in two games running – not to brag, but I think I'm something of a natural! Then I do something I'm not sure my character would ever have done before leaving Analand – decide to go and sleep outside instead, and pocketing the gold. The innkeeper's plaintive 'But I thought...' escorts me out into the night.

I make camp in the shadow of the city walls, but I'm not asleep for long – I become aware that there seems to be a wolf, or something like it, slinking through the trees. I snatch up my sword, and then it comes for me – and I'm more than a bit startled to see that it's wearing armour! Once I've run it through, there's an even bigger shock in store, as the body of the wolf becomes that of a young woman. A WEREWOLF...? But... it isn't even a full moon. Curiouser and curiouser. I make time to bury the corpse, and try to catch a little more sleep before the sun rises, wondering what my time in the cityport will bring if this has been an accurate taste...

Next morning I hug the city wall, heading roughly Northeast, although there's not much to be found in this portion of Lower Khare – just the bones of old farmhouses, tumbled and broken. The first complete dwelling I find turns out to be a chainmaker's forge, whose chains twist and rattle eerily from the ceiling. For some reason I don't immediately announce myself, but steal softly inside to start a gentle ransack of the place... I've turned up some gold pieces and a copper key when the chainmaker, a none-too-gregarious svinn, surprises me. I manage to bluff it out, although I'm forced to buy a silver chain to stop him being suspicious. I don't like who I'm becoming in this blighted city – five minutes here, and I'm already swindling innkeepers and stealing from honest tradesmen!

(https://i.imgur.com/xUQVD3P.jpg?1)

The sun climbs high into the sky as I walk among the fields. My stomach begins to let me know in no uncertain terms that I missed breakfast, and sitting on a rock to eat some bread and cheese turns out to be an extremely good idea. There doesn't seem much more to be found here, at the poor end of a poor district of a poor cityport, so I turn West, away from the city walls at last, and deeper into the metropolis. An intriguingly high fence around a seemingly empty field attracts my interest – despite appearances to the contrary, there must surely be something worth protecting inside, right? A quick cast of BIG grows me momentarily to gigantic proportions, and I simply step over the barrier. Strange. It really does just seem to be a field of plain old grass. Why would someone– And then I see something glinting among the green. Aha! I don't waste any time, but stoop to grab – May the Whale protect me! Something in the grass – or maybe the grass itself – has got hold of my wrists, and starts pulling me deeper, and deeper down... A desperate prayer to my guardian spirit releases me, and I'm straight back over the fence, trying not to think about what might nearly have happened there... I spend late morning scything wheat for a farmer for a little gold, so when I pass a fortune teller's stall I don't mind sparing a coin to hear my fate. She seems to have a genuine gift, as she knows a lot about my quest thus far – and she seems to think that I ought to visit a priest by the waterfront for a further important clue.

Further on, and a bundle in the gutter actually looks, on closer inspection, to be a person. Of course, this could well be a trap, and there's nothing to stop me walking by... The other citizens of the city certainly are, with that sullen, studied expression of disinterest that I've already gotten so used to in my short time here. No. Determined that Kharé will not corrupt me, I pause to check if he needs help, as the Analander of old would have done, back in the Shamutanti Hills. As I shake the shoulder of the... thing, the head rolls toward me, black lips peeling away from rotten teeth in something that might be a mockery of a grin. He starts to get up, but the movement is somehow all wrong – the way the elbows and knees are bending beneath the blanket doesn't seem to make any sense. And as the covering falls away, I understand why – the limbs aren't attached to each other. I've woken a LIVING CORPSE, and the ensuing fight is one of the most disgusting I've had since leaving Analand (and I had to fight a skunkbear, so I know whereof I speak).

(https://i.imgur.com/JtYcM0n.jpg?1)

Finally, mercifully, the sundered appendages fall back to the ground. A cheery little gnome thanks me for putting him down, saying that it should be another month before he rises again. The districts of Lower Kharé apparently dump this obscenity on each other with regularity, happy for it to be someone else's problem until the next time. Truly, this city is a cesspit. Having already put a few new sword-holes in it, it'd seem pointless to quibble about quickly searching the body for clues or gold before I move on. Just as well I do, as there's an extremely interesting scrap of parchment lodged in the throat. That wasn't just any old common-or-garden zombie, but the mortal remains of Second Noble Moulas, and I now have the first of the four spell lines to open the North Gate!

Later I come across a burnt house beside the road, which is intriguing, so I climb in among the blackened timbers, looking for clues or treasure. A young man watches me ransack the smoking ruins from across the street, and rather pointedly asks if I knew the owner. I suspect he knows the answer full well, but I admit I didn't. "Oh? Just thought you'd have a little poke around and help yourself, did you?" he asks. Chastened, I mumble an excuse and hurry away. [Brilliant. I think this is the first time a gamebook has actually called me out on this sort of thing!] Further up the road is the grandest house I've seen yet, but it doesn't have a very lived-in feel. I seem to very much have the taste for breaking and entering now, as – having made sure nobody's watching me this time – I slip quickly inside (in my defence, this does look exactly like the sort of place a City Noble might live).

(https://i.imgur.com/JagXjUb.jpg?1)

It's a labyrinthine place, though inhabited now only by cobwebs and dust, and takes me a while to fully explore. There's the usual sort of nonsense with snakes and trick staircases, but upstairs I find a badge – the Badge of the Seventh Noble, Theeta. Was this his mansion...? The most important discovery comes in a hidden room beneath the main house. A makeshift altar stands at one end of the room, dedicated to a deity named Courga. Someone has daubed the golden statue of the god with what I suspect must be clues to his ritual – the sort of thing that can only be useful to me, though it might not be for a while. Mayhap this is linked to the priest I was told to seek...? The same person – presumably – has also left bloodstained bandages on the altar, as if in offering, and scrawled the legend GIVE ME BACK MY EYES in vast letters of haemoglobin. Bleurgh. Thoroughly creeped out, I leave this mausoleum of a house to its ghosts, and press on, hoping I haven't missed a spell-line. What gives me heart is that I didn't find Theeta himself – hopefully he's still out there in the city, somewhere.

Dwarftown is next. I draw many stares as I pass through the streets, but I seem to be viewed more as a passing curiosity than a threat, and I stock up on many interesting wares at a dwarf merchant's. Beyond Dwarftown is the Artists' Quarter (I'm slightly surprised that a sinkhole like Kharé has an Artist's Quarter!), dominated by the vast bulk of the Market. The market is baffling to the senses, a cacophony of trader's patois, energetic haggling, angry arguments. The air smells of incense, spices, glues and oils, conflicting smells all coming at me at once. And of course, this being Kharé, most all of the sellers and costermongers that I speak to try to rob me, kill me, or both. Of particular note is the armless artist that I speak to. Asking him how on earth he manages to paint such works, he invites me to look inside his studio – where I'm astounded to see a paintbrush  working by itself! As soon as I enter, a new canvas flies onto the easel, and the paintbrush starts painting anew. Suddenly uneasy, I ask it to stop. The paintbrush just gets faster. I try to grab it. I try magic. I can't catch it, and it just gets faster. The bastard thing has soon finished the painting of me – and then I step out of the canvas!


(https://i.imgur.com/XD8acDm.jpg?1)

Fighting myself is a... strange experience, to say the least. Back outside, the artist doesn't deny that it was a trap. He doesn't even have the decency to be ashamed! I see some recently finished canvas paintings of men that are surely City Nobles, and in a fit of pique I grab them. 'For my troubles,' I say. It turns out I now have paintings of Sansas, Shinva and Theeta – so I'll know them if I see them. No Lorag, though. Heading back down into the slums, I descend into a well [perfectly normal gamebook behaviour, but why would someone really do this?!] It's not pleasant, but hey – any trip to Kharé is a metaphorical wade through sewage at the best of times! I disturb a RATBEAR, but the fight is a small price to pay; scratched on a wall is the remnant of a four-line poem. Could it be...? I'm fairly certain this must be the spell for the North Gate – and though it's too worn to help work out the spell, enough is legible to tell me the order of the four lines once I get them. Not a wasted trip, thankfully!

Back on the surface, a hand emerges from regions unknown, clamping itself over my mouth, and I'm gently persuaded into the shadows (the unseen blade between my shoulders helps). 'Don't worry,' a voice whispers. 'I'm a friend.' I fully expect to now see my old assassin mate Flanker, here to repay his debt, but I don't recognise the face of the man who's 'invited' me into his house. Apparently an old adventuring buddy of Glandragor, the innkeep from Biritanti, he seems a gregarious sort, but... I dunno, something in me just takes umbrage at being accosted like this. While he serves us two tankards of ale, I slip on my skullcap to cast TEL and read his mind. I can't say I'm too surprised to learn that the ale is drugged and he desperately wants me to drink it – but that's about all I can learn of his identity or intentions, as he's also batshit insane, with a mind like fractured glass. Politely declining the ale just enrages him, and suddenly VANGORN THE MURDERER, as he proves to be, is coming for me with sword in hand. (That's right, he has 'murderer' in his name!) Afterwards, I ransack his hovel guilt-free.

(https://i.imgur.com/5ptWqFE.jpg?1)

After Vangorn's I next come across a small shrine, where a white-robed priest is preaching to a crowd, calling for someone to take the Test of Slangg, God of Malice. Presumably this is the priest I was told to find, so after watching someone else fail the Test, I step up to the front. I'm offered an easy question – which will come with a sacrifice – or an impossible one. Apparently – so a woman in the crowd says to me – nobody ever chooses the easy question, and nobody has ever answered the impossible question. Perhaps I'm being too clever for my own good, but surely there's an obvious trick here? If the 'impossible question' really is impossible – what's the sense in trying it? Asking for the easy question, the priest asks if I will first accept Slangg as my God. Slightly apprehensively, I agree. Well, I don't have to mean it, do I? The priest lays hands upon me, and I begin to feel my Guardian Spirit slipping away from me. I won't be allowed to just pay lip service to the idea – this is really going to happen! My Spirit's been good to me on my travels – I haven't called on it often, but it's always come through for me when I have, curing me of plague and preventing me being flattened by a boulder. I quickly chicken out – but it's too late! Slangg is now my God whether I want it or not, and quite frankly he sounds like an absolute arsehole. I answer the easy question, then for my 'reward', I ask about the North Gate spell, and get a new clue for my troubles. Whether it was worth the cost remains to be seen...

(https://i.imgur.com/X4XBMRV.jpg?1)

Night is rapidly drawing in as I reach the docks, and I need to start thinking about somewhere to sleep. At a wharfside inn I play some swindlestones with a drunken sailor to wind down before bed. As I leave the table, a voice from the shadows asks if I'd care to try him, instead. It's Flanker! Over a mug of ale, he gently questions me about my time in the city so far, laughing heartily to hear that I've now got Slangg for a deity. (Thanks.) Finally, he agrees to repay his debt by taking me to see the elusive Council – if I can first best him at swindlestones. If I don't, he gets to kill me... Lucky for me that Flanker has no idea just how adept I've become at this game. Once beaten, he honours his word, and off we go to the Council. It's a really interesting escapade, where I learn some fascinating things about Portal Traps that I'm not going to spoil here – and the fact that there apparently is no Council running Kharé! This night of heady revelations puts the cap on my second, exhausting, day in Kharé.

(https://i.imgur.com/xNQK3QV.jpg?1)

The next morning I'm up with the crack of dawn, waiting impatiently for a little old man to let down the only bridge across the Jabaji. Whether karmic justice for my exasperation I don't know, but my eventual journey across the bridge is accompanied by an increasingly ominous creaking, and I'm suddenly dumped into the river as the ancient planks break apart beneath me! An exhausting (and disgusting) swim gets me safely to the north bank, but everything paper-based in my inventory has been ruined, along with all my rations. Only my precious spellbook has survived. If there's an upside, it's that the dunking has drowned all the fleas I picked up thus far in the cityport. Not just me being cute – my character really had picked up fleas! It's something of an inauspicious start to my time in Upper Kharé, and it's about to get worse...

Walking west, I soon find I've blundered into an ethnic ghetto of some kind. All the creatures here are strange, sour folk with pallid skin and, weirdest of all, closed eyes. Unlike Dwarftown, the air here is stifling and oppressive. My prescence is not tolerated, but openly resented. Best not to tarry. Alas, I'm quickly surrounded by a gang of youths, and being surrounded by a gang of youths in an unfamiliar part of town has never ended well for anyone, anywhere, in the multiverse. It's no different on Titan. The ringleader opens his eyes – just a crack – and I'm struck dumb with pain by the baleful red light beneath. No wonder they all keep their eyes closed! He threatens to look at me, all over, if I don't do what I'm told, and I don't think this is an empty threat. I'm sweetness itself as I talk to them, positively queasy in my politeness, but things quickly go south all the same. For the sin of being a 'whiteyes', I'm beaten unconscious. Upper Kharé is not kind.

(https://i.imgur.com/gOTjC3n.jpg?1)

I wake up on a stone cot in a prison cell, bruised and battered. No time to feel sorry for myself – I've got a mission to get on with. I've been carrying several keys around since my time in the Shamutanti hills, and I'm keen to finally find out what they do. Wouldn't you know it – the first one I try in the lock is the one that opens the cell door? Blind chance? Luck? Or is Slangg not quite the capricious deity I've been led to believe? Whatever the truth, there's a Red-Eyes guard to deal with before anything else; I take out my silver chain and whip it around him, totally incapacitating him in its coils. Except.... Except that being bound by a chain does nothing to stop him simply turning his head, and opening his eyes...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 June, 2022, 06:53:52 PM
And so my adventure ends there. [Well, not really – having come so far, of course I immediately got back on the horse and had another attempt, but for now this first death seems a nice enough place to end the write-up. I really don't want to ruin all the surprises of Kharé...]

The Verdict
If nothing else, this is a massive game. The above is about half of my eventual (complete) playthrough, and - having already maxed out the character limit for a forum post(!) - I left out an awful lot of detail even from the part I did write up; the Festival of Thieves, the bathouse, a lot of the smaller, low-key encounters and swindlestones games with various citizens of Khare, a lot of the items I picked up for use in spells (didn't want to ruin all the fun of exploration for you), and two main overarcing narrative threads – the attempt by the mysterious Vik and his agents to take control of the city (Vik for First Noble!) and the story of what exactly happened to the various members of the ruling Council. It becomes clear pretty quickly that First Noble Sansas has recently made a powerplay and moved against most of the others – Moulas, Loragg, Shinva, Theeta – but where are the others? Alive? Dead? ...Something else? Something worse? Where is Sansas himself? What does he have planned next? And what will happen when Vik tries to take the city for his own?

I love that your character arrives in the aftermath of most of these events, and has to gradually tease out the truth by a myriad of little clues and NPC encounters. It's interactive narrative at its best, and the antithesis of Firetop Mountain's tedious 'Having gone left, you arrive at another junction. You can once more either go left or right.' The worldbuilding is exquisite – like the street where people have to use ladders to get into or out of their houses, as they've all bricked up the downstairs doors and windows in a final exasperated defence against the thieves of Kharé! Steve Jackson creates such an immersive world here that, when I finally reached the North Gate, I just wanted to turn around and dive back into Kharé.

Honestly, the worst thing this game did was end. I'm already having swindlestones withdrawals! This is pretty much the gold standard, by which all other gamebooks will now be judged. 9.5 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 June, 2022, 12:33:34 AM
What a great write-up! You've inspired me to give Sorcery! another go (although I'll still try WoT first as it's new to me).  What was the reason it lost half a point?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 24 June, 2022, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: Richard on 24 June, 2022, 12:33:34 AM
What a great write-up! You've inspired me to give Sorcery! another go (although I'll still try WoT first as it's new to me).  What was the reason it lost half a point?

The only real fault for me (and this may have been entirely a result of my missing the relevant encounters) is that [spoiler]the Sansas/Vik plots didn't seem to be resolved. I thought at least one of them was being set up as the 'big bad' of the game, but I eventually left Khare having never met either one. Felt a bit unsatisying, after so much careful seeding of their plots.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 24 June, 2022, 12:35:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MdcQnCb.jpg?1)

Having now played roughly a third of the gamebooks that I own (thanks to this thread), here's a recap. What do we learn from this? Er... nothing revelatory. I need to get better at winning the things, that's for certain – though in fairness I 've not cheated once, and generally only attempt one playthrough per book, whether that means death or completion. Perhaps there's a slight reptilian bias to the creatures that have killed me, but I don't really seem to have made any obvious nemeses yet. Onward!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 30 June, 2022, 12:33:22 PM
Jimbo's gamebook spreadsheet is a thing of unmitigated majesty and nerdery. I may have a similar one myself now based off his template..

Such an awesome writeup on Sorcery there. I definitely played at Cityport of Traps and maybe another one of the series but when I think back I may be getting some of it mixed up with Lone Wolf. This review also inspires me to give it a go though.

Having raced a couple of books ahead of everyone else on FF and with WotT in limbo, I've decided to have a go at Freeway Warrior to see if it makes up for the disappointing Freeway Fighter. It's ace. Writeup to follow.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 03 July, 2022, 11:28:55 PM
Way of the Tiger 1: Avenger!

So I finally found time to start this book today!

First impressions

I've never come across Way of the Tiger before, so I'm interested in how it differs from Fighting Fantasy. My first thought on reading the rules is that the combat system seems to be quite complicated, but when I actually use it during the game it turns out to be much simpler than I thought. It gives you some choices to make instead of just rolling dice (though it has dice rolls too), and there is even some description of the fight.

Description is another difference: there's generally more of it than in FF, and several paragraphs are much longer than you would see in any FF book. I welcome this, as it fleshes out the story a bit and makes scenes more interesting.

There's a detailed colour map of the mainland, which includes some locations from FF11: Talisman of Death, which is fun.

You don't have to roll dice to generate stats for your character, instead you are given your stats. This is fairer than FF, where usually if you roll a skill of less than 10 you're probably fucked before you've even started.

You have to choose three special skills from a list of eight (e.g. climbing, lock-picking). I like this (there are a few FF books which have this too).

In an early paragraph in the story, your ninja boss tells you "there is always time to bite off one's tongue from one's head and bleed to death rather than betraying secrets under torture." That's a bit darker than anything I've read in an FF book! (Mind you, my mum still confiscated one of my FF books when I was ten!)

First play through

My character is a ninja and I've spent my whole life training to be the best ninja I can be. The story opens with me in single combat with one of my comrades (not to the death) to see which of us will be promoted to super bad-ass ninja. I lose, because I missed an obvious clue in the text. D'oh!

I then get sent on the actual quest which is the focus of the book (why didn't they send the other guy?). I have to go and assassinate someone before he can get to where he's going. My journey starts on a ship that takes me from the ninjas' island to the mainland. On the way we are attacked by pirates, but I very easily make short work of them and kill their captain, after which they leave us alone.

Arriving at a port, I am offered a choice of two doors, one black and one white, that lead from the harbour into the city proper. I choose the white door, and am greeted by a knight decapitating a priest, graphically illustrated by Bob Harvey. I follow another priest, and he seems to be about to lure me to my death, but it seems to be so obviously dangerous and stupid to play along that I think this is just misdirection by the writers to see if I will chicken out, so I hold my nerve, and am rewarded with useful information and transport to outside the city. Progress!

I am immediately presented with a choice to follow the road or trek through a wilderness, and the information I have just learned from the intimidating but friendly priest means I know which choice is the correct one. I next encounter a Cobra Man (a dude with a cobra's head) who is about to kill a small child. I attack him but he bites me, and because I don't have the immunity to poisons special skill this instantly kills me.

Second, third, and fourth playthroughs

I choose immunity to poisons special skill.

This time I win the fight at the start, and after answering a multiple choice question correctly I am promoted to Grandmaster, and am given some presumably important information and a ring which I'm told will come in handy later. After that I make all the same choices I made before, since they all seemed to be the right ones, except that this time the pirates kick the shit out of me and kill me three times. Fuck! This combat system is brutal.

I'll give this another go later in the week!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 July, 2022, 09:06:53 AM
I must have fought those pirates literally about a hundred times. Throwing the captain can kill of him in one move - his defence is pretty weak to throws and you can put him over the side, ending the fight. Good luck!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 04 July, 2022, 10:39:30 AM
That's how I did it the first time, but the ogre keeps battering me!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 July, 2022, 12:57:06 PM
Oh yeah, the ogre. I always take arrow cutting, so I normally weaken him with a shuriken and then try to finish him off quick with a couple of kicks, using inner force for at least one of them. Never try to throw him (you may have already found this out!)
Knowing when to use inner force is pretty important as some of the fights are horrific (the one at the end of book 3 is LUDICROUS in its difficulty). You don't want to run out before the end, but don't be afraid to drop really dangerous opponents with it.
I love that image of the ogre jumping between the ships. He looks like an absolute wall of muscle.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 04 July, 2022, 01:15:11 PM
I keep forgetting about inner force! I'll try that.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 04 July, 2022, 04:32:17 PM
Loving combat-tactics discussion for WotT.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 05 July, 2022, 12:06:43 AM
Way of the Tiger 1, play through 5

This time I choose arrow cutting skill (which lets me catch or deflect arrows), climb the rigging when the pirates attack, throw my shuriken ninja death star at the first pirate, all to deprive him of just one endurance point! Then I attack him and use up one of my inner force points, and this doubles the one more point of damage I manage to inflict! Well that was worth it! But I manage to kill him, use another inner force point to kill the captain, and finally make it to the Cobra Man who finished me off on my first play through.

This time I survive that encounter (without needing my anti-poison skill) and, avoiding a side quest, I enter the city of Mortavalon. This is the kind of place where, I am told, the largest temple is to the god of Death, whose priests sacrifice children. But there is also a small monastery where the monks follow the same god I do, and they help me out by telling me about an old hermit who can offer me some more useful help. I go there, and the knowledge I acquired at the very start of the book when I became a grandmaster enables me to earn the hermit's trust. I gain more knowledge about my enemies' whereabouts and also learn a new ninja technique which amounts to an extra point on my attack strength whenever I kick people.

After that I get into a couple of fights, and follow the hermit's directions to the next city, where I survive a cowardly assassination attempt. Leaving the city I pursue my targets to a castle, where I catch my first sight of them entering the gate. I try to enter the castle by pretending to be a wandering minstrel, but the guard seems a bit suspicious of my lies and I sneak away in case he's gone to fetch reinforcements. Instead I swim the moat at night and climb the wall, but I fail a dice roll and the guards hear me, leading to an instant death paragraph.

Play throughs 6 to 10

I am killed another five times trying to get into this fucking castle!

I didn't start over at the beginning, I used the paragraph where I arrive there as a checkpoint. There are a variety of ways to get in, all of them difficult, but when I finally managed to bluff my way in as a minstrel (much harder than getting into Balthus Dire's citadel!), I was at least able to do a bit of recon before the guards escorted me out again. This info not only offered me a new route into the castle on my assassination run, and a map of the castle, but there is also a lengthy paragraph which describes two of the three targets I have to kill, and they are very bad mofos indeed! I don't know how I'm going to deal with these two when I get to them! I'm starting to think all the guards and monsters defending the place are actually doing me a favour by killing me before I get to their employers!

As I've said before, all this description makes for a more engaging and immersive experience than most FF books. The structure of the book at the section where you're trying to infiltrate the castle has been well thought through and there are intelligent choices, particularly when your scouting of the castle as a minstrel leads to new and useful information about a vulnerable point of access.

On my last go I made it as far as the roof of the keep, and it feels like I'm about to reach the endgame as my targets live in three turrets at the top of the keep. But it's late, so I'll try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 05 July, 2022, 09:13:31 AM
Loving these write-ups. Think I'll have to add WotT to 'the list'...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 July, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
Great writeup!

Sounds like you missed the arena in Mortavalon, which is a shame as it's excellent. Kwon's flail is the business!
I think the descriptive paragraphs, and the need to make intelligent and thematic rather than random choices, really elevates this book.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 05 July, 2022, 11:34:21 AM
Once I've completed it I'm definitely going to go back over it and see what I missed.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 July, 2022, 03:24:35 AM
House of Hell

Skill: 12   
Stamina: 15       
Luck: 12
Fear: 7


Playthrough
Being of a nervous disposition, and having just been diagnosed with coronary heart disease, Frank was shitting bricks before he even got into the spooky house, got knocked unconscious and woke up tied up on a bed. His chest was tightening even more as he broke free and staggered nervously around, looking for an exit. Who knows what was going through his mind in those final moments of clutching panic?

Post-Match Interview
Probably it's not possible to win this one with a Fear score of 7. Unless there's some optimal route that avoids all the spooks.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 06 July, 2022, 09:22:10 AM
I love a good short playthrough! 😆
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 July, 2022, 10:26:20 AM
Nice!
I think couldn't get through without FEAR 10, I'm pretty sure I read online 9 is the minimum. The fear mechanic sucks, quite frankly.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 July, 2022, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: Richard on 29 May, 2022, 12:46:26 PM
The minimum number of Fear points you can pick up on the way to paragraph 400 is nine. Given that your maximum capacity for Fear is between 7 and 12, you have a 50% chance of losing with a die roll before you even turn to paragraph 1!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 July, 2022, 01:26:22 PM
That'll be where I read it then!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 July, 2022, 04:24:20 PM
The Progs own Tazio Bettin is doing the art for Secrets of Salamonis, one of the two 40th anniversary releases later this year. There's a handful of images here, and they look pretty great: https://taziobettin.artstation.com/projects/9NLEaQ
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 08 July, 2022, 04:35:42 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 08 July, 2022, 04:24:20 PM
The Progs own Tazio Bettin is doing the art for Secrets of Salamonis, one of the two 40th anniversary releases later this year. There's a handful of images here, and they look pretty great: https://taziobettin.artstation.com/projects/9NLEaQ

Wow - those are awesome potatoes.

Some of the reprint material (like the new WotT prints) are let down by art that's just not as good as the originals. Perhaps this is due to these being niche passion projects.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 July, 2022, 04:47:55 PM
WOW! That's more like it...!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 08 July, 2022, 09:46:58 PM
That just looks so impressive! It would be worth buying that book for the art alone! Good find!

I'm really looking forward to this book. Steve Jackson's Sorcery! books, and also Creature of Havoc, feel more like fully-fleshed novels than the more usual FF books with their short paragraphs that have little in the way of a narrative strand. So this should be a good read.

Speaking of gamebooks that feel a bit like novels, I have finally finished my first Way of the Tiger book, and then read all the bits that I missed during my playthroughs. I've mentioned before that the paragraphs are longer and more detailed, but the endgame is magnificent and really adds to the feeling that there is a story, or at least a theme, in the way that for example Forest of Doom does not.

Assassin! playthroughs 11 to 13

Instead of resuming from my last checkpoint, I decided to start again at the beginning, because I had got to near the end of the book with quite a low Endurance score, and I wanted to try and get there a bit healthier!

I began to regret that decision when those bloody pirates at the start of the book defeated me three bloody times! Killed me twice, and once -- just for variety -- they captured me and made me a galley slave for the rest of my life!

Playthroughs 14 to 18

I finally get past the pirates and make it (via the same route) to where I left off the other day, on the roof of the Keep where the baddies live. I use this as a checkpoint to go back to when I'm killed, which turns out to be quite often.

First the guard on the roof raises the alarm twice, and I get killed by reinforcements. On the third go, I manage to silently kill the guard, and now I have to choose which order to kill my three victims in. Perhaps foolishly, I choose to begin with the man who in my character's backstory murdered my natural father and, later, my foster father. This turns out to be a mistake, because I was supposed to save him till last, and I quickly arrive at an instant death paragraph.

I go for one of the alternatives, a sorceror who immediately kills me with a death spell for which I have no magical defence (having missed the opportunity to acquire that in Mortvalon, as I have since discovered).

I then go for the third target, heroically killing him in his sleep. Yes, the bards will certainly be singing songs about my courage and honour for generations to come! I then get killed by one of the other bosses.

Playthrough 19 (!)

Finally, I manage to assassinate two of the Big Bads, before finally having a big showdown with my nemesis, and what an absolutely epic scene this is! This is a really fitting end for the book, consisting of an absolutely barn-storming, gigantic battle with another ninja. It consists of a great many paragraphs, giving you various different options for attacking, while describing a huge climactic fight. It reminds me of the big duel with Balthus Dire, but the way this is done just feels more deadly, more significant, and more exciting. It's just really well put together.

My enemy's Endurance score is still higher than mine, but not unfairly so, and -- for a change! -- I happen to make all the right choices, greatly aided with my new combat knowledge which I learned from the friendly hermit in the mountains, which gives me an impressive head start as I manage to deprive him of 16 of his 20 Endurance points in the first round! Which makes the fight sound a bit easier than I have tried to convey in the previous paragraph, but only because I actually found the hermit, who I could easily have missed. It's not essential to find him, but it definitely helps, and this is why this book is immeasurably fairer than so many of Sir Ian's.

Once I finally dispatch this guy (without actually needing the extra Endurance points I worked so hard for in playthroughs 11 to 13!), the final paragraph (420) is the very opposite of the criminally brief Space Assassin's 400. It is a suitably rewarding description of your triumph and your reward, and I also get to pick up a new ninja skill which I can take with me on to the next book!

Now I have to escape from the Keep...

Conclusion

It's just great, and you should all buy it! My second WotT book has arrived, so I'll start that soon!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 July, 2022, 02:18:06 PM
Great playthrough Richard, I'm stoked you enjoyed it so much. That showdown at the end with Yaemon is the absolute BEST. What an ending!
You really need to think ninja in this one, so killing off [spoiler]Honoric[/spoiler] whilst he sleeps is totally on point and I love the way it enables you to then quickly dispatch the second enemy leader.
Definitely go through the arena if you do it again, it's great fun (especially if you have poison needles).
I love this book so much!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 July, 2022, 03:50:55 PM
Freeway Warrior: Highway Holocaust

I'm pretty sure I played one of these back in the day but not sure which one. A few years back these were reprinted in snazzy hardback editions and I snapped up the first three second hand on a gaming buy and sell group, but never got around to them. After the disappointment of Freeway Fighter I thought now would be a good time to give it a crack.

If you've played and of the Lone Wolf books, you'll know what this is about, but if not it's MUCH more complex than FF or even WotT. There's a fairly in-depth inventory system, and combat is determined by matching the combat skill of two combatants, then rolling a random number and cross-referencing a chart. There are also five skills, each starting at three, with 5 additional points to be spread between them at will. Combat Skill, Endurance (Stamina) are randomly determined, as is the number of medkits you begin with. You can carry up to ten items, but too many reduces your stealth skill (should really be called mobility, as it's used to dodge attacks asn such) meaning every time you find a new item you have to think hard about if you want to actually collect it. On top of all that you need to keep track of bullets and will need food and water at regular intervals to avoid losing health through starvation or thirst.

This is actually my third playthrough. Having determined stealth is possibly the most important skill I've gone with stealth 5. My starting objects are 2 meals, a flexible saw and a CB radio. I'm well-stocked with medkits and have high combat skill but slightly low endurance. I choose the pistol as my starting weapon.

The book starts with an extensive background, detailing how the apocalypse began and played out, and where you (the reader) begin. Instead of playing YOU as per FF I'm a named character: the ludicrously tough sounding Cal Phoenix, the 'Freeway Warrior' - so known for my skills in driving and shooting, although I'm part of a small group of friendly survivors based in McKinney, where we have fuel but not much else. The plot is a fairly familiar one with me / Phoenix needing to escort a convoy of civilians to a safer area - in this case from our small settlement of McKinney, which is too small and weak to survive the coming months, to another friendly settlement (Big Spring) in Tucson and then onto California together. We're moving as a convoy: a tanker of oil driven by Uncle Jonas, the settlement leader; a bus of people, driven by Cutter Jacks, the mechanic, and me in my battle car. It's all very Mad Max 2 but there's no issue with that as it's all quite clearly defined.

As we set off another survivor named Long Jake splits off to pick up some weapons he thinks may be cached nearby. He soon radios in to say he has found a survivor and I shoot off to help, but when I arrive, he is pinned down by bad guys and I walk straight into an ambush. I fight my way clear, but Jake isn't so lucky as he is fully Mungo-d almost immediately. I escape without the cache of weaponry but I do rescue with the survivor, a young woman named Kate, who fills me in on some more plot - she's escaped from a vicious bike gang (The Lions) run by a guy called Mad Dog Michigan, who has a plan to pillage the armory at Fort Hood and so expand his reach across the Eastern Seaboard and from there, the rest of the US. Turns out one of the guys I killed was Michigan's brother, so I've killed his bro and got his girl, which is unlikely to make me popular.

Up next is the town of Denton: I scout ahead but fluff my scouting check and am ambushed by three bikes & sidecars. I make a quick escape, but with danger in the town we need to detour around Denton, taking us dangerously close to Dallas. Out next stop is Lake Lewisville, which has dried up, making it easy to cross, but risky as the ground is very open and the larger vehicles are forced to move at slow speed to avoid shredding their tyres. Driving ahead I spot someone watching us from above: I have the opportunity to shoot at him, but the book tells me he is pretty far out, so I go after him on foot, sneaking up through the broken terrain and engaging in a vicious knife fight. He's tougher than me, but I'm a better fighter: I'm wounded but kill him. Turns out I was right to do so as he's a member of the Arlington Vipers, a known road gang, and could only have had ill-intent on his mind. Looting his body gives me an absolute wealth of stuff: I steal his water, bullets and telescope, and use his painkillers to heal my wounds. I also decide to take his telescope, leaving the rest of his stuff as I'm concerned about weight limits.
We cross the lake, moving onto State Highway 407 and from there, Interstate 35. Pasisng North Texas state University I decide to head in and explore, with Uncle Jonas suggesting I scavenge some polythene sheeting for crossing the desert. The place is a burnt out wreck but exploring deeper I do discover a huge stockpile of salt. I can't figure out the number puzzle to get into the door so I return with the salt and some polythene to the cheers of the convoy. I honestly hadn't thought salt would be so important but there you go!

We leave Interstate 35 to go around Fort Worth and our next challenge is to cross the Trinity River. Here I have two choices. I decide to head Northwest to the settlement at Lakeside, only to find the bridge has collapsed, although I do find an abandoned bus where I'm given a bewildering array of car parts to scavenge - all sound useful but all take up room in my backpack (I can't just leave them in my car for some reason, or hand them over to Cutter on the bus) so in a state of indecision and not wanting to impact my stealth I leave the lot. Instead we take the convoy to Lake Worth only to find the bridge there blocked by a manned barricade. Cutter suggests rigging a length of crash barrier to the front of the bus and ramming through, with the tanker following and my car bringing up the rear. We burst through and I sustain only minor wounds although the bus is beat up and needing repairs. Whilst that's going on I head over to nearby Carswell Airforce base where I'm able to snag a fresh clip of bullets.
We head West to Weatherford, where I must consume my first meal - looks like I'm strictly on one meal a day. We're camping when we pick up a radio broadcast from nearby Mineral wells. Obviously I go to investigate, arranging to meet others at Santo. When I arrive the radio station is in ruins and the famous DJ Dr Drool long is long dead, but the trip isn't a bust as I'm able to steal dressings and antispetics for medikit supplies.
Rendezvousing back at the bus, there's another ambush, and another vicious fight. This time the attackers make it onboard the bus - probably because I didn't think to shoot any - but I'm able to dispatch the enemies in hand to hand. We break out of the attack but the bus is heavily damaged and we need to make a pit stop. We stop at Thunder, but the prognosis isn't good and the bus may be toast. The prospect of having to leave people here is dreadful, and we bed down uneasily for the night.

Keeping watch, I spot a strange flickering light up in the hills and head off to investigate. However I didn't bring a torch, so I plunge into a gulley whilst blundering around in the dark and take 6 wounds, smash up my radio and my saw. Clambering out I eventually find the source of the light: a crazed old hermit type named Mountain Goat who lit the fire to attract our attention. Declining his cooked rat, I explain our woes and the upshot is that I agree to take him with us as he knows where to find bus part at the nearby town of Strawn, which is held by a guy named Alcatraz and his gang, the Skulls. Predictably the rest of my convoy aren;t delighted to have a flea-ridden, rat eating lunatic aboard our bus, but I make the rules here!
Cutter and I are chosen to go raid Strawn. After a day of surveillance (by now I've eaten all my food and drunk half my canteen) we identify two routes of entry and split up. With two ways in, I decide to go via an amusement park to increase my chances of fighting a clown-themed enemy but all I do is brain myself painfully whilst avoiding a patrol for huge endurance loss. I link up with Cutter, whi tracks down the part we need and whilst he is stripping the part from another vehincle battle a drunken ganger: he's a poor combatant but some terrible rolls leave me badly cut up. We hide the body in the trunk of the vehicle we just stripped and leg it.
Back at the convoy we head towards Eastland, where we find someone has dug a trench across the road. Using my telescope, I spy men with dogs on the other side. The dogs look rabid, and the men look sick: before I can get back to my car the dogs are on me. I shoot one, then am given a choice of how many bullets to use against the rest of the pack: I'm flush with bullets right now and the book tells me one bite means death, so I unload a full clip into the rest of the pack, scattering them. The men are in an advanced state of radiation poisoning so I of course donate some of my precious medkits despite the fact that they set these dogs on me because Cal Phoenix is a kind guy like that.

Whilst I was killing dogs the convoy has spotted, with horror, Mad Dog Michigan and his Lions are following us. I dissaude them from going to Cisco (where the irradiated guys hailed from). Again, we have a couple of choices of route - I decide to go via Albany, rather than cross-plains. The temperature is now over 110 and people are starting to come down with heat exhaustion. I am low on water myself and needing to eat my salt to keep my levels up. I pop into Albany, looking to find shelter and water for the convoy, but it's another ambush - there are hordes of enemies here. I escape but use up the rest of water lying low.
We reach Abilene but are waylaid by a sandstorm: a little girl goes missing and Kate, Cutter and I head out to find her.  I'm hapless but luckily Kate isn't and she's soon reunited with her parents. finds her. Eventually the storm blows itself out, but the heat is insane and the rest of our rations have spoiled. Things look bad!

As we continue on, I'm winged by a sniper and am now out of water: my endurance is getting low and I'm getting worried. As we pass Trent, a couple of members of Michigan's Detroit Lions (now I get the name!) come racing out of nowhere and one chucks a live grenade onto the passenger seat: I chuck it out and blow up the biker, but his mate is harder to shift. Bullets whip through the car, wounding me: I accelerate away from the convoy with him in pursuit, then as he begins priming a second grenade I break sharply, sending him over the hood to a crunchy, and then explosive end. We think this pair were outriders scouting ahead, but the Lions cannot be far away.

At Sweetwater the bus needs to stop for more repairs and to avoid overheating. Nearby, happily, is a lake: Kate and I go to top up our supplies, but Kate falls in, I then fall in, and as we struggle out covered in mud and filth our eyes meet - "That's the second time you've saved my life" she says (the lake was a couple of feet deep)... just as it looks like Cal is getting a snog gunfire erupts from the ridge above. There's two assailants: one is making a move for my car, which would be fatal, whilst the other pins us down.  I've forgotten to use any med-kits so in my battered state I miss a shot to bring down a guy going for my car and end up having to rush him whilst Kate covers me. Knives out - I roll high and kill him with a single stroke. The other guy escapes, but the one I killed has enough food, medical supplies, and water to top me up. In addition, he has a load of plastic explosive on his bike, which Kate swipes. We're now just 66 miles away now from Big Spring but we know the Lions are close.
The bridge is down over Colorado river. I scout North, finding a dam, but the bridge there is too small to allow the bus and tanker to cross. Back at my car I run into a rattlesnake - I get the usual choices of knife or shoot it but as someone who has kept snakes I just slowly back off as this would be the correct action here and I'm pleased to say the author has a similar view as the snake, terrified of me as I am of it, also backs off. When I get back to the convoy they've just gone ahead built a bridge anyway, but crucially, Kate has stuck all the C4 to it so we can blow it behind and strand the Lions on the other side. Probably not a good time to mention the smaller bridge I found to the North then...
There follows a short encounter with a gyrocopter pilot, just to keep the MM2 reference strong. This guy is called Rickenbacker: he hails from Big Spring and warns us the Lions are close behind and that another gang, The Mavericks, control the town of Lubbock between here and Big Spring. He then flies off and we soon find out why: the Lions approach in a huge dust-cloud, 100 strong and ready to kill. The bus is across, but the tanker is struggling on the makeshift bridge. Kate and I head back to hold them off: once again  my pistol is rubbish but Kate snipes the lead bikers whilst I am dodging bullets, enabling us to high-tail it over the bridge and detonate it behind us leaving the Lions on the other side, helpless with rage.
Moving on, a good perception roll means we avoid the hazards in Westbrook but as we close on Big Spring I spot trouble ahead with my telescope - hordes of gangers ahead, looting and generally acting mean. There's no way around, so we resolve to drive straight through at speed, with Kate riding shotgun in my car. I medkit myself up to the max.
We're at the climax as the convoy smashes straight through the unsuspecting bikers. One brave / daft guy faces me down with a sniper rifle, but I run him over. We're through, but the bikes are in pursuit with drivers leaping from moving bikes onto the bus, smashing in through the windows. Kate takes wheel and I jump aboard, quickly cutting down the Maverick attacking Cutter at the wheel, but I'm too clumsy a shot to stop another guy hurling a lit Molotov aboard. I'm not burned too badly, but I didn't pick up a fire extinguisher when I had the chance, and I'm reduced to putting the fire out with a blanket, badly burning myself. It matters not, Big Spring is ahead! But as we speed for it's gates a shocking sight: my car, pulled over, with Kate struggling with a pai of attackers. I leap off and gun down the first, but the other has his knife to Kate's throat: I toss my gun, helpless as the ganger hauls her onto his bike and speeds off. And that's... THE END? CLIFFHANGER!


This was everything Freeway Fighter was not: exciting and immersive. Like WotT it has much longer descriptive paragraphs and generally more thoughtful decisions. However some of the mechanics were a bit too in-depth, to the point where it was more like an RPG. The combat system was good, but also a bit annoying: I liked the idea of a single dice roll (I stopped using the random number table at the back in favour of a D10 dice roller online) instead of two but cross-referencing a table felt very 1980s. Parts of the inventory management was also a bit much - there was a fiddly bit about keeping track of bullets that I abandoned altogether. The rest of the inventory stuff was great however. Once I'd established on an earlier playthrough that the stealth stat was essential I was constantly making tricky choices about what to take with me and what not to, in order to avoid overloading myself.

The book seems really replayable - there was never a point where lacking an item saw me auto-killed, only disadvantaged (although see below) so I suspect there is no true path. Even choosing your gun at the start seemed to impact certain choices: my pistol was useful at times and useless at others. Incidentally, I had a couple of encounters where I could scavenge a pistol (and one SMG) but never any of the larger weapons.
There's a fair few auto-kill paragraphs in here, and I believe almost all of them are determined solely by random dice roll. That's why this was my third attempt.

The plot was pretty good, but it's obvious this was part 1 of a larger arc: some stuff was touched on but never resolved (most glaringly Michigan and the Lions having a vendetta against me, also stuff like Rickenbacker's cameo) and then a huge cliffhanger. This meant the journey and its hazards took centre stage which was good, but the book didn't feel as satisfying at completion as something like Avenger. Then there's the character of Kate. It's really good to have a decent gamebook companion (Mungo and your ilk, I'm looking at you) who can actually bail you out, not be in constant need of help etc. What I didn't like though was that at the start she's described as being very young ('18, perhaps less') and it may just be me, but I feel there's a sinister overtone to the fact that she was 'claimed' by Mad Dog when her settlement was raised and kept captive. The book could have done without this, I think. That said she's a good character overall and her kidnap at the end certainly left me wanting to see what happens next.

My copy, as mentioned, was a pretty spiffy hardback reprint with nice bookmarks and a cool map at the start: I'm not sure if the illustrations are the originals and if I had to guess (and based on the copyright at the front) I'd say probably not as they have a bit of a modern feel to them. They're alright: some of them are a little cartoony, but never detract. There's a ton of images for stuff I didn't see, and I'm quite keen to give it another go sometime. All in all, ymmv depending on how complex you like your gamebook mechanics, but a big recommendation from me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 July, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
And whilst I'm on this thread here's a trailer for another gamebook that just dropped into my inbox:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoO9q6lXlLw

It's a mech vs Kaiju gamebook. I've not played it but I did back it on KS, purely on the basis that it's illustrated by Neil Googe. I went for the b&w paperback, but the hardback I believe has pinups from the likes of Tazio Bettin, Chris Weston, Alex Ronald, Simon Fraser and Anna Morozova. That's a whole host of 200ad art-relevant talent! I don't think it's available yet, but when it is, I am hoping it'll be a belter.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 July, 2022, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 July, 2022, 02:18:06 PM
I love this book so much!

Thanks for recommending it!

I've already started the second one, but rather than do a run-down of all the play throughs I think I'll just wait until I've finished it and then do a round-up of the key points.

I also want to know what happens to Kate! Let us know!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 July, 2022, 03:21:16 PM
I was going to start Temple of Terror but I've had too much fun playing Freeway Warrior so I'll be going on with that story shortly. But before I rescue Kate, it's finally time for me to play:

Way of the Tiger: OVERLORD!
(Part 1 - because I didn't have time to write it all up!)

Because by this point Avenger's stats and skills could be wildly varied, I have the skills of Arrow Cutting, Climbing, Acrobatics, Poison Needles and Shin-Ren. I have a +3 kick modifier and +1 to punch, throw, and fate. I also have a new stat, Popularity: this starts at 2, and measures how much support I have with the people.

The book begins with a nice little description and introduction to the city and the various powers within it. Turns out Irsmuncast is also known as Irsmuncast nigh Edge, as befits its position as the closest settlement to The Rift - 'the last bastion of men' against the hordes of evil. Well alright then.
The book proper then starts with me post-crowning ceremony, snuggling down into my predecessor's soft bed in a room hung with pictures of 'souls in torment' (my 'beautiful handmaiden' is ordered to turn these to the wall - this whole setup isn't very ninja-y, but the book does say I am uncomfortable with all this). Next morning more beautiful handmaidens help me wash and dress with 'murmured admiration of my toned body' which is how I know (a) I'm definitely playing a gamebook and (b) this used to be the palace of a bad guy, because having tons of handmaidens to do stuff like this is evil ruler 101. In fairness throughout the book the writing drops bits in saying how uncomfortable I am with the various trappings of wealth and sycophancy that comes with it, which seems legit as I wouldn't have had all this on the Island of Tranquil Dreams. 

My breakfast meeting with The Grandmaster of Kwon lays out that I need to pick a privy council: that's four guys, out of eight possible applicants. The applicants are:

Force Lady Gwyneth of the Shieldmaidens, a noble badass who helped me overthrow the Usurper
The Demagogue, a rabble-rouser who likewise rallied the people to my cause
Golspiel the merchant, who sort of helped but was dodgy as anything
Solstice, High Priest of the Temple of Time, who did absolutely nothing during the revolution
Parsifal, the aged Grandmaster of Kwon himself
Greystaff, High Priest of Avatar, the God of Good
The Lord High Steward of the Usurper, a follower of Nemesis, the God of Evil
Foxglove, head of the Usurpers secret police and also a follower of Nemesis

This part of the book is totally unlike anything I have previously played. It starts off with a bunch of job interviews for the council. The Steward is up first - he looks like a classic Grand Vizier and basically says appoint him or else. I of course do not. Instead I appoint Gwyneth and The Demagogue, due to their support for me previously, but not Golspiel as he is so unreliable. I also refuse the Grandmaster - going for balance I choose Greystaff and Foxglove (the book tells me a good 30% of the city worships Nemesis, so evil should have a place on my council: furthermore, I feel Foxglove is a spymaster whilst the Steward was a representative of the Usurper, and that she would be better working with me than against me. My subjects don't agree, and my popularity takes a hit)

Following that I'm presented with a number of problems, usually one or two per day, with the individual members of the council giving advice to a resolution. Pretty soon I have the measure of my councilors: Gwyneth talks sense, Greystaff talks bunk, and the Demagogue is hopelessly naive although he is useful as a sounding board for the populace. Foxglove generally offers no advice, but she does meet me in secret to confirm she has been bumping off agitators and to warn me of dangers to my person.
Firstly, I must quell unrest and looting on the streets - I appoint the Shieldmaidens for this, which boosts my popularity due to their fair nature, but also exempts the Temple of Dama from tax. I then have to choose my bodyguard - I go for Onikaba's samurai who are still hanging around from before, which gives me a negative as the people don't like foreigners (gammons!). Third up is what to do with the Usurpers old army, fully 4,000 orcs, half orcs and men. I decide to disband them, which sticks 4k unemployed orcs on the streets and is not a good move, but because I have appointed Gwyneth as the watch commander she is alble to keep order in a fair manner.
Trickily I then need to level some taxes - here disbanding the army is somewhat in my favour. Greystaff is all for taxing the Temple of Nemesis out of existence, whilst the Demagogue has some insane ideas. I go with the middle ground, cover all expenses and generally please nobody.
The next item I need to deal with is the status of the Yellow Lotus, Foxglove's secret police: everyone wants them disbanded with good reason, but Foxglove at this point tells me that Parsifal is in fact dead and has been replaced by Mandrake, the assassin master of disguise I battled back in book 2. Following her advice I attend evensong at the temple of Kwon, then (after using my Shin-Ren skill to check, because Foxglove herself isn't exactly trustworthy) deck the doddery Grandmaster with a surprise flying kick. A quick check (and a sigh of relief) reveals Foxglove was right - he IS Mandrake, who I swiftly dispatch. Another bad guy chalked off!
The final, most serious problem awaits - an army arrives from the Rift and here my over-reliance on Gwyneth has backfired as the people, who now idolise HER as she is both councilor, head of the army and head of the watch, beg her to march out and fight them. I refuse, which again has negative impact on my popularity, but I have enough to survive. We anticlimactically fend off the attack in one paragraph, but mood in the city is glum and everyone fears a bigger attack. It is at this point that Kwon sends me a dream telling me to pop off and recover The Orb and Scepter of Telmain from the Mountain of Undying Solitude, which are some legendary objects to Irsmuncast and should bring us luck. This seems to me to be a terrible time to be leaving the city but off I go, ready for part 2!

This has been hugely enjoyable so far. Also note I have made NO dice-rolls and there has been no fighting (I dropped Mandrake and killed him automatically). The decisions require and reward a bit of thought, and the cast is excellent:Foxglove seems to be a favourite of the author with her crazy costume changes and secret messages but all of my NPCs show a bit of character. And the descriptions are superb. I love the world of Orb. If I had to critique it, it's all reasonably easy so far....
Also worth saying, having just played Highway Holocaust, it dawned on me during this book that unlike other books where you play a named hero, WotT has at no point indicated that Avenger is male. Youthful me always pictured Avenger as so, hence I still do, but this is cool writing.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 July, 2022, 03:39:43 PM
That books sounds fascinating! I'm looking forward to getting to that one. I've ordered book three based on how much I enjoyed the first one. I might not read your part two though because spoilers!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 13 July, 2022, 07:06:08 PM
I really am going to have to give WotT a go, aren't I...?

Return to Kharé
Well, I wasn't going to type the rest of this up (both for my sanity, and fear of spoiling too much) but my tidy mind is finding hard to move on to new adventures until I do! So, for the sake of my own closure, here's the rest of my Kharé playthrough...

Upper Kharé 1
So I'm back to more-or-less the point at which I crossed the Jabaji river from Lower into Upper Kharé. This time I avoid a dunking, so my rations are intact, as well as the paintings of the nobles that I got from the armless artist. This time I also give the Red-eyes slum a wide berth, only to run straight into... a Red-Eyes. This chap seems alright, though – he just wants to play swindlestones (although, like Flanker the assassin, the stake he wants me to play with is my life). He seems to be a sort of Fagin-like character, running a gang of orphans around the city streets, and he's a goldmine of clues and gossip.

(https://i.imgur.com/kLltMCj.jpg?1)

Ever-mercurial Fate then takes me back to the imposing Red-eyes prison where I died. There's only one reason I can think of for my stars to have led me back here – an Elvin fellow who briefly shared my cell with me. Marshalling my array of spells, I've soon chased off the guards (albeit temporarily) and opened the cell. Whoever he is, the Elvin's smart enough not to waste time questioning who I am or what's happening, and we take flight together through the twisting alleyways outside the prison. The guards are soon after us, and in the confusion I lose the Elvin. Hopefully he wasn't recaptured. More importantly, neither was I, and I'm not about to hang around here any longer.

(https://i.imgur.com/vm7hkFN.jpg?1)

I then come to another mansion – not quite the equal of Theeta's, back in Lower Kharé, but clearly not abandoned. The master of the house is at home, and – it's Lord Lorag, the scholar, who holds one of the spell-lines for the North Gate! I have a job to do convincing him I'm not the latest in a long line of assassins sent by Sansas, but he does eventually seem to believe me. When I mention that I'm a Sorcerer, he seems to come alive at last. The distrust and suspicion fall away, and we're soon deep in discussion of spells and star-charts. He's happy to give me his spell-line in return for all my help with his research – and wonders if he might intrude upon my time a bit further, and beg help with some other spells...? Feeling that our relationship has become, if not friendship, then at least one of mutual respect, I'm happy to indulge him – and it isn't every day that I get to talk about the intricacies of the craft with a fellow sorceror. Perhaps I'm just naïve, because Lorag obviously views our relationship somewhat differently...

Look, there's no way to say this that will save my ego. He turns me into a dog. A pet dog. And that, somewhat improbably, is how attempt #2 ends!

Upper Kharé 2

This time I'm still bipedal when I leave Lorag's mansion – and I now have two of the four spell-lines! If I can't find First Noble Sansas, the only man who knows all four, then I now need to track down Theeta and Shinva – but last that anyone knew, Seventh Noble Theeta was now a blind beggar, so it's anyone's guess where he is! I arrived in the city too late to save Fifth Noble Shinva, who's already been killed by one of his peers, but by all accounts the dead don't rest easy in Kharé...

A gaggle of Orclings come to pester with menaces, but a cheeky illusion of treasure spell sorts them out. As they fight one another for imaginary coins, I find a blacksmith working at his forge. I make the mistake of asking him about swords – a mistake because, once I've picked up the stunning blade he gives me, I know I don't ever want to wield another blade in my life. When he tells me the price it's all I can do not to fall over – thank Slangg I didn't give the Orclings any of my money! Swindlestones has been pretty good to me, though, and I can (just about) afford it, so I decide to treat myself – but I'd best get throwing those knucklebones again as soon as possible, because my purse is now empty!

(https://i.imgur.com/oU93RPe.jpg?1)

As if in answer to my prayers – although, with Slangg for a deity, that seems unlikely – the next town square is dominated by a vast bronze statue. In a bowl at its feet offerings of coin have been left. Do I dare...? Has Kharé demeaned me that much, that I'm willing to risk the ire of this unnamed god, and use holy gifts to replenish my fortune? Well, yes, obviously. I can't say I'm too surprised when the statue clanks into life and climbs down off its pedestal – I'm very much the bad guy in this scenario. What does surprise me a little, given that I'm gearing up for the fight of my life, is that my shiny new longsword takes the bastard out in a single, sweeping cut! Best buy EVA!

And the shopping spree continues when I find an open-air market nearby. With my ill-gotten loot I buy a few curios, and – most significantly – a bow and quiver of silver arrows. The rumour mill is convinced that silver is the only material that can harm the undead, and with increasing inevitability I can see the Necroplois of Kharé in my future, and the restless shade of Shinva... I've still got no idea where Theeta might be found, though, but when I find a vast gambling hall, it seems as likely a place as any. Honest. That's why I went in. Looking for Theeta. Look, I don't have a problem, right? I can stop playing swindlestones any time I like – it's just that I don't want to. Not right now. [Swindlestones doesn't make for much of a write-up - suffice to say that I stay here, playing game after game, until I've eventually made back the gold I spent on the longsword.]

(https://i.imgur.com/rY8C5O9.jpg?1)

Leaving Fireview Square and the gambling hall, I head east. The buildings rapidly deteriorate as I walk, until soon there is not even any glass in the window frames. Further still, and there are hardly any buildings still standing. This is an area of Kharé known as the Fallen Quarter, laid low by an earthquake some years ago and never rebuilt. There isn't an awful lot here. And so it doesn't actually take me too long to find... [drumroll please...] Theeta, Seventh Noble! The poor sod's in a bad way. He either can't remember who he was, or doesn't want to, but I've got his painting, so there's no mistake. Finally he admits to his identity – just in time for a pair of HARPIES to descend from the sky. Not only is Theeta blinded, homeless and humbled, but he's been tormented by these beasts for months now, with the harpies snatching away any food that comes his way. [Hmm... Someone's been watching Jason and the Argonauts!] Well, they aren't much of a match for my new sword. In his gratitude, Theeta admits to everything – and is more than happy to tell me his spell-line. Except... except that he can't remember it all! I tell you, it's all one step forward and two steps backward in this city. He does let me have a cunningly-wrought serpent ring for my troubles, so it was by no means a waste of time.

(https://i.imgur.com/jFsAAgS.jpg?1)

On my way out of the Fallen Quarter, I neglect to watch my feet as I should, and the ground crumbles away beneath me! For the second time in Kharé, I'm in the sewers. I trudge for an age, with no real idea of where I'm going, when the echoing tramp of many feet begins to fill the tunnels. It seems prudent to make myself scarce, but – there's nowhere to go! I'm overtaken, and quickly surrounded, by a literal army of goblins. Their leader seems to find my presence here more amusing than anything. I suppose he can afford to, with this many swords at his back. He sends one goblin after another towards me in single combat. The first two I cut down with my sword. Then I start flinging spells around, hoping to impress them enough to leave me alone. I explode a few with POP, and make another fight a goblin of my own creation, but they just keep on coming... Finally – mercifully – the leader gets bored, and signals the army to march on. I follow for a while, eavesdropping, and learn that they're planning a takeover of the  city above – but not who their real leader is...

(https://i.imgur.com/1KzUPHK.jpg?1)

I emerge from the sewer to find myself in the Necropolis. It's immediately clear I'm not welcome – the air is brooding and cold, with a taste like burnt ozone. This is not a place where the living are welcome. I begin to search the tombs and markers. Shinva's mausoleum isn't too hard to find, but I don't immediately head into it – there might be clues or items yet to find among the other headstones. Alas! I spend too long dawdling, and attract the attentions of a DEATH WRAITH – undead guardian of the necropolis. I know that silver weapons harm the undead, and I have two. I quickly suspect that, in the silver chain, I've made the wrong choice! I'm able to harm it, but the damage it deals to me is incredible! It's a pretty short fight, and I'm soon added to the non-living quotient of the graveyard's population...

(https://i.imgur.com/48HsoWK.jpg?1)

Upper Kharé 3
Never one to need a lesson told to me twice, this time I hurry straight inside Shinva's mausoleum. Naturally, the door slams shut on me as soon as I enter, and won't budge, so there seems nothing to do but venture further in, and deeper down. Down in the basement, the lid of Shinva's sarcophagus begins to slide open. I've been expecting to have to fight the undead noble since I first heard he was dead, to be frank – but no! What emerges from the tomb is another bloody Death Wraith. This time I box clever (more so than last time, anyway) and whip out my bow and silver arrows, delivering the true coup de grace with a cast of SUN, filling the tomb with blinding sun's rays. With a hiss, the Death Wraith departs.

(https://i.imgur.com/329hvjl.jpg?1)

Shinva's shade now makes its presence felt, and he's a benign old soul, happy to give me his spell-line and then depart in peace to his eternal rest. Not only that, but he tells me a riddle about 'a Sleepless Ram' that means nothing to me now, but he's sure will be of help to me out in the Baklands. And that... seems to be it. With (virtually) all the spell-lines for the North Gate, there doesn't seem any reason to linger in the cityport of traps. Leaving the Necropolis behind me, I hurry north to the waiting gates, a little delirious to think I might actually soon be free of these walls.

There isn't much in this heavily-wooded part of the city. A vast, isolated temple looms above the treeline to my right, and something compels me to investigate – I am still missing half a spell line, if nothing else! Climbing up the vast stone steps, I'm soon away from the stink and noise of the city. It's serenely peaceful up here, and I watch sunset spread across above the Baklands like the contents of a spilled inkpot. Resuming my climb, I'm soon in a shrine-like temple at the top. It's a shrine to Courga, god of Grace – and thanks to my exploration of Theeta's mansion, I'm pretty sure I know how to perform his ritual... Ritual performed, Courga manifests in his statue. Not only is he able to give me the missing spell-line, but he offers to replace Slangg as my deity, if I will pursue a path of truth and kindness. Despite a few wobbles here and there, I've been trying to do this very thing since I left Analand, so I accept his offer. Slangg departs with a hiss of disinterested malice, and the warm benevolence of Courga fills me.

(https://i.imgur.com/d9vVwzQ.jpg?1)

And so, I'm soon at the infamous North Gate. I speak the spell-lines, and hear locks and tumblers click and groan as ancient mechanisms rumble into life. As the gates begin to open, there's a sound from a nearby well, and suddenly dozens – maybe hundreds – of goblins are streaming up out of it. Someone has chosen this very moment to make their powerplay. The thing is, though... with the North Gate now open behind me, this no longer has to be my problem, necessarily. It isn't as though I want an army of rampaging goblins let loose on the unsuspecting city below, but what can I do? A vision of the scholar Lorag suddenly appears to me, and asks if I wish to save Kharé. Trying to forget that, in another life, Lorag turned me into a dog, I tell him that, on balance, I do. Okay, it's a cesspit, but I met just as many good folk as bad. The people of Kharé are just like any others, trying to get by. Lorag cryptically just asks why don't save it, then? After all – 'The power of the North Gate is now fully yours to command.' So I close my eyes and I... Well, I'm not quite sure what happens, frankly, but when I open them again there's nothing left but a thousand pairs of smoking goblin-shoes. Did I do that...?

(https://i.imgur.com/Qhcn3OD.jpg?1)

So there you have it. Having turned me into a housebreaker, thief, gambler and cheat, Kharé's parting gift was one of mass-murder. But Courga doesn't abandon me, so it's obviously okay when it only happens to goblins. The North Gate stands open, and the Baklands await.

(https://i.imgur.com/GEfd5SX.jpg?1) 

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 July, 2022, 08:38:32 PM
Great write-up! I might have to play Sorcery! again after I finish WotT!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 July, 2022, 11:02:49 AM
That is a great writeup and a superb sounding adventure. I'm also going to give these a crack asap. The one and done FF books have been a little humbled by all these ongoing series but I'll be back to them...

I love those illustrations too especially the orclings.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 July, 2022, 11:05:16 AM
WotT: Overlord! Part 2

The Mountains of Undying Solitude are a bleak and blasted place, well named, devoid of all but a few dregs of flora and fauna as I make my way towards them. I decide to use my skill of climbing to scale the crags of the mountains instead of taking a rickety looking rope bridge and this decision seems to pay off as I spot on the other side a huge cyclopean creature: the beast has my scent, sniffing about, so I jump down to attack, weakening it with a shuriken and then dropping it with a couple of kicks (though I am battered by it's huge fist for severe damage), satisfyingly knocking it into the chasm. A quick search of it's cave reveals the remains of a ninja - this one from the villainous Way of the Scorpion - and I swipe a ring emblazoned with their scorpion symbol.

Moving on I reach the delightfully named Crags of Abandoned Hope, where to Avengers (bit not my) surprise, the whirlpool symbol of Nemesis is painted on the rocks. I can feel myself being watched and try to blag through as a Scorpion Ninja using the ring but mess up and am drawn into a difficult fight with an enemy ninja. I then detect and try to infiltrate the Scorpion lair, but my lack of trap detecting skill sets off another fight with a ninja - although this one I'm able to swiftly dispatch with a well-placed throw. The Scorpion Clan have their base concealed in a sort of underground complex - I'm on roughly half health now so move in with extreme caution. expecting trickery and my careful approach is rewarded. I knock off a couple of enemies on the way in, eventually finding my way to the centre of the place where I face the Grandmaster of Shadows himself who rises to face me dripping with contempt.

This means it's time for a cinematic, exciting battle with the Grandmaster This is another one of WotT's trademark multi-level battles, with the opening paragraphs mainly being me countering my opponents' various ploys and moves until I can strike, for the Grand Master is a master of deceit and tricky fighting. I get in a blow early, then fight defensively until 'regular' combat begins. By now down to my last 3 points of endurance, I spend inner force on every blow to defeat him but my victory is not without cost - after delivering some exposition where he tells me I will never find the orb and scepter before telling me exactly where I will find them (go beyond the Fangs of Nadir into the Elemental Sea, past a kraken who kills anyone not wearing a magical amulet, then onto an island guarded by a Devil Beast - literally I would have no idea why he would give me this much detail), as he dies he plays his final gambit and brutally cuts away my eye with a hidden weapon, reducing my combat effectiveness greatly.
Mauled and weakened, I can but stand helplessly as the rest of the Scorpion clan file into the room, but in a show of respect the enemy ninja let me go - although they promise they'll be along to kill me later of course.

Leaving the Crags I go West, because i always do, healing en route. The local fishermen are too terrified to venture into the seas but I hire a boat from a poor fisherman, paying him well over the odds with gold I pinched from the Scorpion Temple, and the fisherman ferries me onto the Isle of Thieves. This is a true den of pirates and villains, with, at it's centre, a temple dedicated the Spider God, Nullaq. It's an amulet of Nullaq I need to pass the Kraken.
Locating the temple I use my climbing skills to scale it's spire and steal in at night, slipping over a number of security traps only to double fail on the skill front - I have neither the skills of trap detecting nor poison immunity, and so a well-hidden poison needle means death in the halls of Nullaq.

Attempt 2
I've come so far, and don't fancy the grandmaster fight again, so I restart on the island and try to enter the temple via a different route. Same result. Death.

Attempt 3
Grr. This time I restart at the Mountains, make better choices sneaking into the Scorpion Clan base, but poor rolls see me get battered by the Grand Master. Death.

Attempt 4
Same choices as above, but this time I defeat the Grandmaster and take the same route to the Isle of Thieves. This time I take the only other choice available to me - literally mugging a priest of Nullaq in an alleyway. I assassinate her with my poison needles but am drawn into combat with her two eunuch bodygaurds: needing a quick end I drop one outright with an inner force powered kick. One on one the other is a poor match, although he wounds me with his blade. The amulet of Nullaq is now in my possession but taking ownership of such a cursed item damages my chi and permanently reduces my inner force to 4.
I return to my boat, which sinks, and I wash up on The Isle of Fables. A deft bit of honest diplomacy with the elves there means they lend me an elven boat to pass the Fangs of Nadir and pass into the Elemental Sea. I hang a left through the Fangs and pass into the ocean beyond where I soon spy the island the Grandmaster told me of. Water Elementals are a hazard here but my boat deftly steers between them until the Kraken wakes... but due to my possession of the amulet retreats, allowing me to make landing on the mysterious island.
Here I must fight the devil beast. Acrobatics serves me well against initial rush, but I miss with my shuriken, and the battle is joined. It's a surprisingly weak opponent, despite a couple of surprises including a final eyebeam attack that nearly kills me. I finish the foul thing with a chop to the neck and as its body dissolves the orb and scepter are revealed.

Picking up the orb and scepter then magically transports me back to Irsmuncast! Hooray! But what's this? The city is shrouded in smoke - Irsmuncast is aflame, and orcs and dark elves throng the streets. The city appears to be overrun, and as I look horrified upon it's ruin, I am delivered a message from none other than Honoric - The Legion of the Sword of Doom is coming and my city, and my life, shall be forfeit. CLIFFHANGER ENDING!

Well fuck.

Really enjoyed this part as well, although it did seem a little rushed - compared to the first two books, where an overland journey is played out in all it's dangerous glory, here I felt quite quickly shuttled from one set piece to another, although the infiltration of the rival ninja lair was a highlight and also pretty nerve-wracking. The Grand Master battle felt like the 'main' one here, with the devil beast being quite a straightforward follow up. The ending magically whipping me back to Irsmuncast really reinforced that and in a way this felt like two books smashed into one (one of the reasons I split this writeup) with the first half being the better half. I'd have happily played a full book of me managing the city followed by another of me questing to get the orb and scepter.
That ending though - talk about a cliffhanger / shock! And with my loss of eye, this could be the first book where I actually start weaker than the previous one.
Oh, and I didn't make a single fate roll in this gamebook.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 14 July, 2022, 10:50:42 PM
This is great stuff; keep 'em coming! 

I loved the WotT books, even though I probably never played one without loads of cheating.  I do real ninjutsu these days, and probably wouldn't have thought of it if I'd never picked up Avenger, Assassin and Usurper as a kid.  (I am of course pretty shite at martial arts, but what the hell, it gets me out of the house and gets me jumping and rolling about with ninja weapons.)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 14 July, 2022, 11:03:17 PM
You're not a real ninja until you've poisoned someone by stealthily dripping scorpion venom down a thread into their mouth while they're sleeping!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 July, 2022, 09:17:30 AM
Have you learned the skill of poison needles yet JBC? That's the one that really captured my imagination as a kid!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 15 July, 2022, 01:02:10 PM
Heh!  It's the wire garrotte I remember most from WotT, and how you make it slice neatly into some guard's throat. 
Also it could have been WotT where I first heard of the manriki-gusari, a weapon whose name made me and my mates laugh like a drain for some reason when we were 12.  I recently had a class on how to use one (I still can't).  I am delighted to say I can throw a knife with some degree of accuracy these days though, something I thought was a flight of fancy when I saw Dredd do it.  I would struggle to hit a Judda in the windpipe from a horizontal position, though; or bury a judge's shield in a perp's forehead whilst hanging from a hook over a munce-grinding machine.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 July, 2022, 04:02:28 PM
That cliffhanger ending to Overlord has been ticking over in my brain all week, so last night when Mrs. Boots went out to see The Prodigy, I stayed in and played a gamebook from 1986. Such a cool guy.

Way of the Tiger book 5: Warbringer!
Part 1

First off, this book has easily the worst cover of the series, with a derpy-looking mind flayer fighting Avenger, who is in full ninja gear but riding a massive white warhorse - something generally not done by ninjas. I'm pleased to see, in the rules at the front, my inner force, shuriken and endurance have all been restored to maximum although I'm still permanently on reduced inner force and strike modifiers.

So I begin on the palace rooftop. Irsmuncast is ablaze, and all appears lost before this part of the tale has even begun. I'm given the option to examine the orb and sceptre and (because the book has only just started) decide to stick the orb into my eye socket where it immediately replaces my old eyeball and restores my sight (the book makes no mention of this restoring my strike modifiers: doing so would be logical, but I don't want to count on it) as well as giving me limited vision into the spirit world, something that seems significant but actually isn't.
Hearing Orcish voices below I try to use my climbing skill to get off the battlements but the area below is also full of orcs, so I dart downstairs and battle a huge troll, a fight I barely win. Utilising my skills of arrow cutting I fight free of the palace and into the city where the streets are littered with the dead and the gutters run red with the blood of my subjects. Scaling a windmill I spot what remains of my army: in the Square of Seasons a force still holds out with several of my old allies present including Gywneth, Greystaff and the Demagogue, leading a ragged force of militia, shieldmaidens and priests. I rejoin them and rally them - Greystaff heals me (phew) whilst I am appraised of the situation. The enemy army is led by Shadazar, a rift dweller whose deads are so infamous we know her name: elsewhere Golspiel's lieutenant Antocidas still holds the barracks with his mercenary forces, and the Temple of Time still stands but predictably has done nothing to help. I have the option of heading to the palace or joining with Antocidas: I choose the latter and we attack the dark elves besieging the barracks from both sides. Their commander has a magic sword, which I shatter with inner force: the dark elves are crushed, our forces are joined and so reinforced we head to the palace. Shadazar is on the battlements calling down magic upon our troops, and a squad of trolls hold the gate. I elect to let my guys handle the trolls whilst I head into the palace and what follows is easily my worst WotT death yet: a failed fate roll lightning bolt startles a horse, which knocks a flower pot onto my head knocking me over and a troll then stamps on me. DEATH.
As I was fully healed by Greystaff not a few paragraphs past I restart here and enter the palace. Stealing onto the battlements I find Shadazar in the midst of summoning some dreadful spell and elect to use my shuriken over a garotte (although I nearly did this just because JBC loves a WotT garotte) or a simple 'hey you' - the throwing star buries itself in her brain and pitches her over the battlements where she is impaled on the spears of her own troops! This grisly end is enough to rout the Rift forces, and the city is retaken!
Three days later the fires have been extinguished but Irsmuncast is in a bad way. Hundreds are dead and the city is semi-ruined: furthermore Golspiel and his merchants are dead or fled, The Lord High Steward is also dead and my spymistress Foxglove has vanished, meaning the Order of the Lotus is no more. I'm genuinely disappointed Foxglove is gone, bit the other two are no loss.

Before we can really take stock a minstrel arrives with news: Honoric, leader of the Sword of Doom, who I have had run-ins with a couple of times, has sworn to kill me for what I did at Quench-Heart Keep in book 1 and has mustered a grand army against me that will march from Doomover on a day sacred to Vascho-Ro, God of War. I must call a council of war.

My council comprises three of my old allies in Gwyneth, Greystaff and The Demagogue; the perennially unhelpful Solstice; Antocidas, leader of the mercenary forces, Lackland, the New High Priest of Nemesis who commands what's left of the Usurper's forces, and Hengist, who now leads the monks of Kwon in place of Parsifal (assassinated in book 4). It turns out Onikaba, leader of the Samurai, is now dead and the rest of my Samurai have returned home. My army is looking weak, whilst the forces of the Rift took relatively small losses in the previous attack and Honoric's force will be massive. We must seek aid, and fast, and I have several options. There follows a selection, similar to the Star Council parts in book 4, where various parties offer advice - this is generally the format for a lot of the choices coming up, but here it's trickier to judge who has the best advice on offer. Once again the choices bear thinking about - and not just the choice, but who suggests it - and generally, careful thought comes through.

The Demagogue suggests heading to The Spires of Foreshadowing, home of the heroes of fate and ancient enemy of Doomover, although I have been previously warned that should they join with me the Legion of The Angel of Death from Mortalvon would surely join Honoric.

Hengist suggests Wargrave Abbas, to recruit more monks of Kwon and other followers of Dama, but this city is far too far away.

Antocidas suggests Greydawn, home of the savage beastlings, who live for war: we could bribe them with land between us and the Rift, allowing them to establish their own settlement there that would provide further bulwark against the Rift's incursions.

Gwyneth suggests Serakub, city of my ancestors, where the Shieldmaidens of Dama hail from.

Solstice suggests going even further to get even more allies, but I discount his idea as literally everything he has said is toxic. (out of interest I later looked back to see what his suggestion entailed, and it's an auto-death decision. Solstice really sucks)

This is a tricky choice. I elect to go with The Spires, as it is closest, and easily journey there and speak to the High Priest at the temple of fate. It's incredibly easy to get them onside and pretty soon I am back in Irsmuncast with 4k footsoldiers and 500 cavalry of the wheel, the elite troops of fate, as well as The Four Tools of Fate - legendary heroes - and then further reinforcements from the city of Fiendal, an ally to fate, in the shape of 3k foot and 500 medium cavalry. This is all very nicely described - the livery of the troops of fate and the Water Margin-esque heroes - and I really feel like we have a chance. There is more to come as well: Glaivas, my old ranger friend, with 20 rangers, and a force of 200 wood elves from Sundial. They bring grave news however: a force has marched from the Rift, splitting into two: a smaller force to ally and reinforce with Honoric, now on the move from Doomover, and a larger force heading straight for Irsmuncast. Gwyneth suggests waiting for the siege so we have advantage of the walls, but this seems a terrible idea, given my force composition and that of the enemy: instead I take Glaivas's advice and send my fastest cavalry to annihilate the smaller Rift army - something quickly accomplished with the aid of my old Paladin chum Dore from Usurper who also joins us along with four other fanatical paladins. Finally Greystaff produces a guy simply called the White Wizard, who hilariously wears white robes and a conical hat, and is apparently the only battle-mage he could rustle up. This guy sounds amazing although sadly there is no picture of him.
Our only choice, it seems, is to march out and meet Honoric in open battle, hoping to defeat him whilst the Rift forces attack Irsmuncast. Gwyneth still favours a siege and Lackland suggests leaving my strongest forces, the Shieldmaidens, to hold the city but I decide to follow Antocidas's advice and leave Lackland's forces and the citizens militia to hold the city. Leaving Lackland in control seems risky, but his troops are by far my weakest and so will benefit from being behind walls when the battle comes. With much fanfare I march out of Irsmuncast to battle... and to be continued!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 17 July, 2022, 05:23:27 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 17 July, 2022, 04:02:28 PM
...a failed fate roll lightning bolt startles a horse, which knocks a flower pot onto my head knocking me over and a troll then stamps on me. DEATH.

Really? 😆
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 17 July, 2022, 09:37:22 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 17 July, 2022, 04:02:28 PM
With much fanfare I march out of Irsmuncast to battle... and to be continued!

Genuinely got me on the edge of my seat here. I mean, I sort of know what's coming because I played these on their original release - but I'm really enjoying being reacquainted with the plot beats via your experience.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 July, 2022, 08:38:59 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 17 July, 2022, 09:37:22 PM
Genuinely got me on the edge of my seat here. I mean, I sort of know what's coming because I played these on their original release - but I'm really enjoying being reacquainted with the plot beats via your experience.

Thanks! I was wondering if this giant writeup was too long. There's a lot of detail though, and I'm so invested! I'll try and get back to more sensible length reports when I go back to FF.
I'll post the second half in a bit.

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 July, 2022, 05:23:27 PM
Really? 😆

Totally! This Jack Burton-esque goofy death must be some kind of authorial in-joke, because it's so daft.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 July, 2022, 10:37:46 AM
Way of the Tiger book 5: Warbringer!
Part 2


I've marched the bulk of my force out to meet Honoric in open battle, hoping the Demagogue and Lackland can hold Irsmuncast against the Rift forces. Five days out and with us close to Honoric's huge army, I decide it's time for a bit of ninja skills (something very lacking in the first half of this writeup) and don the black to go scout Honoric's camp which is huge, numbering forces from Doomover, Mortalavon, Aveng and Greyguilds. I easily infiltrate the camp using my poison needles to liberate a uniform and discover not only is there some disunity amongst Honoric's alliance but that his army also contains Wyverns. I'm spotted but am able to escape, using my disguise rather than brute force to get out of the camp.
Next morning there is another council of war, this one regarding our battle tactics. My army numbers roughly 10k, whilst Honoric's over 18k - his force is listed in terrifying detail and I can't tell you how much my heart sunk to see this on the page:

(https://i.imgur.com/xeXkkyq.jpg)

Honestly, the detail here is lovely, especially the unit names (The Rain of Doom!) and seeing old enemies such as monks of the Scarlet Mantis in the ranks.
Again I am given counsel, with Gwyneth and Glaivas offering a defensive plan, refusing one flank: Dore and the Wheel of Fate favour an offensive one, and the general from Fiendil and Antocidas offering a slightly more balanced one. Decades of Warhammer playing had me feeling refusing one flank would be unwise when the enemy had so much cavalry, and Dore's plan seemed crazy given we were outnumbered, so I settle for the centre ground using the terrain to our advantage, with the Shieldmaidens holding the bridge, troops from Fiendil holding the ford, the Elves holding the wood, the men of the spires in between, the mercenaries in reserve and the rangers as my bodyguard. I also warn everyone about the Wyverns, and the White Wizard of Avatar says he'll sort that out and he also remains with me. This is then all depicted in a little map:

(https://i.imgur.com/GwNXkd8.jpg)

I especially like the fact that this map looks exactly like the sort of thing I would have drawn back in 1986.

There then follows the real meat of this gamebook: a massive battle.
(I suspect the individual player's enjoyment of this next bit would hinge on how they feel about battle descriptions. After I finished the book I read around it a little and found a few people saying they hated this bit: it was too impersonal, and they also seemed to find it a bit random. Personally I loved this bit - again, it seems fairly unique - and the decisions again bear thought, but it did mean referring back to the map a few times. Anyway....)

Before the battle starts however, Honoric issues a challenge: one on one combat, with me. I know Honoric, though evil, is honourable, so I accept and we meet by a ditch between the two armies. As ever he wields the spell-sword Sorcerak. I use acrobatics to gain an early advantage and this is then a standard, if tough, battle: I use kicks to wear him down and deflect Sorcerak with my arrow cutting skill before he is rescued by his own troops, cursing them for besmirching his honour. My healers restore most of my lost endurance and the battle is on.

As the battle is joined I realise my deployment is less than ideal: The Doomover levies are lined up against my best troops and simply hold their position, whilst we dare not advance. We are holding the centre, but The Rain of Doom is wreaking havoc on the right flank with their superior discipline before suddenly pulling back allowing the entirety of the Legion of The Sword of Doom to smash into our flank. The White Wizard battles the Wyverns, killing them and all but expiring himself, but the monks of the Scarlet Mantis infiltrate Wickerwood and flank the Spire troops there as they engage the cavalry from Horngroth and the Wings of Death: I am forced to send the Rangers to their aid. Elsewhere The Legion of the Angel of Death has crossed the ford to engage the Shieldmaidens, the men of Fiendel are faltering at the ford and we are beset on all sides. I elect to deploy the mercenaries to reinforce the ford - they will only do it for extra money, the dicks - and lead the reserves into a charge on the flank myself. We route the troops from Horngroth and rally momentarily, but success is short lived - I am challenged by The Old One, the supernatural evil from the front cover and must fight it in single combat. This is a wretched battle for me, not least because I am mainly skilled in kicks but elect to fight on horseback, meaning I can only punch or swing my sceptre whilst it wallops me over and over with a mace. Ultimately I am defeated and the battle is lost. DEATH.

I elect to restart at the point where I left for aid, as the Legion of Death troops from Mortalavon seemed especially dangerous in the battle and I was unable to counter them. I decide to try Greydawn, but to reach it I must pass close to the rift and am ambushed by a posse of Dark Elf sorcerers who summon lethal executioner spiders to attack me. This is by FAR the hardest bit in the book: I am killed five times here by the spiders as almost any choice leads to death (oh for immunity to poisons). Eventually I find a way to beat this encounter, which is basically throw all four of my remaining shuriken at the spiders and then roll 6 on 1d6, as all other paths kill me. DEATH x 5.
Eventually beating the spiders and reaching Greydawn, the Beastmen here seem eager to help and full of warlike promise, but my Shin-Ren skill tells me they are untrustworthy and will betray me, so I do a bunk and instead make for nearby Serakub. The government here is The Boule, a sort of council of all the various faiths and sects that make up the city. I must address the Boule and start by warning them of the Legion of the Sword of Doom, as there are many faiths here that oppose Vasch-Ro, the War God, including a strong temple of Dama. I don't slag off Nemesis (who is represented here, as well as in my own city) and I sway several of the factions. Hivatala, Swordmistress of Serakub and leader of the Shieldmaidens of Dama, will herself command 2k shieldmaidens to my aid, five hundred cavalry, almost another 2k volunteers from Serakub of various faiths as well as 600 Swordsmen from the Army of Myriad Possibility (these names rule)

From here, things follow a similar tack as the previous playthrough: the rangers, Elves and paladins arrive: I let my cavalry smash the smaller Rift army, preventing it reinforcing Honoric, and I leave Lackland and Demagogue to hold the city whilst we march out. This time Honoric's army is 'only' 16k and I select a different tactic: refusing the left flank with the Elves in the Wickerwood, Glaivas and his rangers concealed at the bridge, a force of men of Beatan, from Serakub, holding the Old Farm and the mercenaries in reserve, with the rest of our troops strung out with Fell Farm at the centre like so:

(https://i.imgur.com/dhJaKp6.jpg)

Once again we are beset: The Legion cross the stream and clash with the Shieldmaidens - they are thrown back but the levies are supporting them and they begin to fall back. The Scarlet Mantis enter the wood where they skirmish with the elves, and the Rain of Doom are peppering my troops at the farm. I order the mercenaries to support the left flank (again needing to bribe them to do anything) - Glaivas and his men return from the ford with heavy losses, with enemy troops beginning to cross, and I can either redirect troops from the farm there or lead the charge myself into the levies: this is a no-brainer as the farm cannot fall, and I know levies are crap so I do that, routing them, and again come into battle with the Old One. This time I triumph (on a meagre 2 endurance and 0 inner force)
By now the battle is going poorly again: the levies are off the field and the Legion and the troops from Horngroth forced back, but they are rallying whilst the men of Aveng and Mortalavon are flanking the troops of Serakub and the mercenaries at the farm. Again I have a number of choices and decide to lead my cavalry quickly to support Antocidas on the left as that seems the greatest risk, ignoring the rallying troops and leaving the Shieldmaidens to do their own thing. This is the right decision as we hammer into the weaker troops there - they withdraw, and by the time they have reformed the Shieldmaidens have arrived to reinforce the mercenaries and we mop up. Elsewhere the Legion are thrown back three times by the Warrior Women of Serakub and soon Honorics army is in full retreat!

I give pursuit: as a final ploy, the Legion deploy an 8-metre tall titan, a monster wielding a replica of Sorcerak. I luck out here, as I have the options of leading Dore and my best men into a charge or falling back: simply on the basis that I am on 2 endurance I choose to retreat and the elves arrive and finish it off quickly with no dice roll needed. I pursue Honoric to the manor house where he has NOT been reinforced by the small army from the Rift I previously destroyed. Honoric and the remains of the Legion fight to the last man: to my relief no combat for me, and eventually Honoric's body is brought before me, his brutal features relaxed in death. Finally my old enemy is no more.
This is basically the end - my exhausted troops return to Irsmuncast, where the walls hold, and the Rift army just immediately retreats. I return to the city in triumph! VICTORY.



So another awesome book. Despite this giant writeup it felt quite short - I think this is probably because there are so many paragraphs taken up with the various branching possibilities in the battle. It was incredibly engaging although as I said above, I think the battle part could be a big drag if you're not interested in such things, or able to really visualise what is going on. If I was to criticise I'd say this book is now very far from it's ninja roots - I did a small bit of ninja-ing at the enemy camp but that's it - and there was no epic battle such as the ones against Yaemon, Grand Master of the Shadows etc - in fact, I only fought three combats (the troll, Honoric, and The Old One) in the whole book and made just one fate roll. If you prefer a more dice-heavy book then this is not for you.
I loved it though. I've heard some bad things about the last book in the original series - Inferno - although there is now also a book 7, Redeemer, that apparently wraps up the series in a more satisfactory manner.  In all honesty, the series could end here: everything is resolved, all the villains have been trounced, and things are wrapped up quite neatly - a longer closing segment would have finished the series very nicely indeed.

I've found it impossible to get an original print copy of Inferno unless I get it from the US, so this is the last of Bob Harvey's work for me on the series which is a shame. I've ordered the new editions of both book 7 and book 8 and I'll have a go when they arrive, First though I really will play Temple of Terror. If you read this far, I'm sure Kwon smiles upon you for doing so!

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 18 July, 2022, 10:42:03 AM
Wow! I adore the field-of-battle maps. I really, really have to play this series one day.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 July, 2022, 03:46:43 PM
It's boiling hot and Temple of Terror is kicking my ass today.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 19 July, 2022, 03:49:16 PM
Well it's the right weather for that book!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 20 July, 2022, 02:34:11 PM
Loving these accounts of the FF and WOTT books - think I'm getting more entertainment ourt of your commentaries than I used to do from playing the gamebooks themselves.

Some recent episodes of Hypnogoria, the podcast that led me to inadvertently start this thread, involve a walk through of City of Thieves, and it's loads of fun.   Favourite quote, on finding a black pearl: 'Yes! I'm coming for you, Bone, you bony-headed nonce!'
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 20 July, 2022, 03:11:30 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 May, 2022, 10:54:11 PM
Citadel of Chaos

Skill: 9      
Stamina: 22      
Luck: 11
Magic: 15


Craggen Rock. Shit. I'm at Craggen Rock. I'm on a mission, which is better than sitting around the Forest of Yore growing weak while the monsters out here grow stronger. It's time to end Balthus Dire, and end the threat he poses to the Vale. One alone has more chance here than armies on the field. Dire has ... powers. But so do I. I don't know if they'll be enough.

My cover story gets me past the hideous mutants guarding the gate and into the large, crowded courtyard at the base of the tower – serving currently as some kind of encampment for Dire's growing forces. Blending in with the miscreants I make it to the tower's main door and bluff my way inside. I trigger an alarm and, blundering to find a hiding spot, tumble into darkness, awaking in a cell.

Despite my incantations, the Calicorn jailor is unmoved and I realize my fate is sealed. Perhaps another assassin will succeed where I have failed. They will have sent more than one.


Post-Match Interview

Seems like I was (in that situation) missing a key spell – but perhaps not getting jailed in the first place would've been the better option. I'd tested my luck three times up to that point and succeeded each time, so I was feeling fairly confident till I tried the wrong door. I got in no fights at all.

I was clearing out some nerd-papers and found a map I'd made ages ago of Citadel, so I conquered it using that on a second playthrough with the same stats. Following a path like that, it's a really short adventure - unlike, say, Island of the Lizard King.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 20 July, 2022, 03:37:37 PM
Ditto with the enjoying of the play reports. I might have to seek out that Way of the Tiger series, it sounds incredible!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 July, 2022, 05:48:39 PM
I'm really enjoying reading other peoples playthroughs as well, and I'm glad some other people are enjoying this and not finding it tedious!

It's become a bit of a hobby project for me now... I started buying a load off ebay during the pandemic for a laugh, but now I've got a spreadsheet and have been hunting down odd FF books in charity shops and online auctions. Although I've no hope of getting a complete set, I do have a wife-enraging big pile of them..

Also everyone should play WotT. I have no idea why these weren't bigger at the time.

Also:

TEMPLE OF TERROR

Played this before, but about 30 years ago, so it's all new to me, basically.
This one seems to be a nice little followon from Forest of Doom: it starts with a nice little scene-setting paragraph about some evil dude called Malbordus who is going to lead the Dark Elves to take over the world by finding some magic dragon statues and raising a dragon army. Then the scene cuts to Stonebridge, where I'm chilling out after finding the Kings magic hammer in FoD when Yaztromo rocks up and asks for a single volunteer to go stop Malbordus. All the dwarves hide in their beards and it's down to yours truly to stop him!

Yaztromo offers to teach you three spells at the start: he's made it clear I'm going to a big abandoned city in the desert, so I choose Create Water, Open Door and Read Symbols as these all seem like they'll be useful in an environment like that. He also says I've two routes: Overland, or via boat through Port Blacksand. Common sense says avoid the city of thieves, so I take the latter.

Whilsting cheerfully I strike out overland. Soon I spot a couple of Dark Elves attacking a simple homesteader - I rush to help, it's too late but I polish off the evil-doers and take their bow and two arrows (all the rest are in the homesteader, I assume). Good to get some Dark Elf killing practice in early! Further on I find a sinister looking, smoking amulet emblazoned with an M that the text says might have been dropped by Malbordus, do I want to pick it up? I certainly do not.
After losing 6 stamina fighting a random harpy, Yaztromo takes pity on me and sends an eagle to pick me up and take me to the desert. I'm zipping along like that kid in the Neverending Story when we're attacked by a Pteranadon. I now have to run a fight between the eagle and the pteranadon - problem is the eagle is terrible, and when it loses I plunge to my doom.

Attempt 2

Trying again, it looks like the eagle fight could be mandatory, so I decide to go via Blacksand. I haggle for passage there at reduced rate and am soon in the City of Thieves. This version of me is a bit more wary, so I carefully move through the city streets, treating everyone like a potential thief or enemy. Eventually I find a sailor pub, buy myself passage and a round of drinks for some clumsy oaf and head to sleep.
Next morning I'm up bright and early, discovering to my mild horror that I have enlisted on a pirate ship. Said ship is immediately sunk in battle:I float about for days hanging onto a mast, losing stamina and wishing I had stayed in Stonebridge, before washing up on a beach which the text says has no coconuts on it.
I head overland into the blistering heat of the desert of skulls, battling insects and discovering oddities in the sand. My spell of create water comes in handy here to keep me alive - eventually my trek leads me to the tent of Abjul the merchant. He generously gives me all the food and water I need, so to return the kindness I buy an Onyx Egg, a Bracelet of Mermaid Scales & a Crystal Key, using up the last of funds (cant imagine I'll need these in the lost city)
Back into the desert - I am attacked by, and kill a giant sandworm but the fight is a very tough one and I am not left in the best of states - something not helped by the freezing desert night, where lacking any sort of flame I freeze. Now in single digits stamina the next thing I do is stick my hand between two rocks and get stung by a scorpion for a further 4 stamina damage.
Probably hallucinating madly at this stage, I examine what I found in the sack and it's some kind of little pixie dude in a jar, who when I free from his confinement tells me to fashion a headscarf from a sack. With my headscarf and my create water spell, but on my last legs, I stagger around in the desert until - what is this? The lost city of Vatos lies before me, nestled in the dunes. I have arrived at my destination!

I use my open door spell to get in, forgetting this will cause me stamina damage. Inside I find a pretty neat helmet that increases my skill. But any good cheer I might have is extinguished when I encounter a terrible phantom - the MESSENGER OF DEATH. "DEATH" it whispers to me before vanishing, and I realise I'm stuck in some kind of weird scavenger hunt: the creature will be hiding the letters D-E-A-T-H in my path, and if I find them all, it appears and kills me. Contrived, but very cool.

I'd better tread carefully, I think to myself. Of course, the first thing I do after that is open a door to find a room contaning a giant centipede that rushes out and kills me.
Wow, that's hard, I think.... 

...who forgot he was carrying provisions? Gah!

Aside from my rank stupidity, I really enjoyed this one. The trip through the desert felt pretty epic and the messenger of death is a neat concept: I'll be opening doors, boxes etc looking for dragon trinkets, and presumably finding letters along the way.
Only downer I would say is the art: the cover is a lovely Chris Achilleos, but I'm less keen on the interior stuff by Bill Houston. The monsters look suitably twisted, but also lack a bit of menace and his humanoid faces look a bit off. That's a minor nitpick though. Definitely going to try this one again.



Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 21 July, 2022, 07:04:26 AM
Feck, there's a lot going on there!  Shame about the abrupt ending - you wouldn't want to be relying on FF books for a cinematic finale. 
I think I had this book, but don't remember a thing about it except the artwork (which was indeed a bit ropey in the interior).  Better than most of Proteus' art though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2022, 01:07:17 PM
I'll have another go at the weekend as I'd like to take it through to the end. There were some pretty severe stamina losses, but I could have offset those through provisions if I wasn't such a dunce.

On a FF-related note, it's Freeway Fighter apocalypse day:
https://officialfightingfantasy.blogspot.com/2022/07/21-july-2022.html
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 21 July, 2022, 01:56:53 PM
Great stuff! ToT is the only (Titan-based) Sir Ian book from the original run that I don't own. Love that it's a fairly direct sequel to Forest of Doom! A series first, right?

Interesting that you mention provisions. I've played another three or four FF books that I haven't posted about yet (I've jumped ahead a bit to the late 20s, simply owing to which books I own) and provisions have suddenly become almost non-existent. At the same time, enemies' average Skill levels have dropped to a more manageable level (7-9 rather than 9-11). Presumably this was based on reader feedback of the first 20 or so books?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2022, 04:16:17 PM
That is interesting. If it is based on feedback then I'm good with that - I'd much rather fight a bunch of more reasonably skilled enemies and not have the provisions. I'm keen to do ToT again but there's a SK10 ST20 (I think) Sandworm fight in there that is putting me off, unless I max my own stats.
I get the idea of wanting certain monsters to appear like a threat, but I think it could be done in a cleverer way than just whacking its skill up. I guess it's easy to criticise in retrospect.

You mentioning not owning some books reminds me I've got a handful of spare FF books from job lots that I've picked up. I should offer them to others here.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 21 July, 2022, 04:20:56 PM
It's lovely not having to remember to sit down and eat! One less worry to keep track of, and avoids incidents like you've just had (I'm pretty sure I only died on my City of Thieves playthrough because I blundered into a fight having forgotten to eat a meal or two first).

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2022, 04:16:17 PM
You mentioning not owning some books reminds me I've got a handful of spare FF books from job lots that I've picked up. I should offer them to others here.

Yep, I've got some doubles too.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 21 July, 2022, 04:41:35 PM
I'm going to be contrary and upvote the provisions mechanic - but then I like numerical strategy. If you're 3 away from max. stamina, and you think you might be close to a dangerous encounter, do you eat provisions and waste a point, or do you keep your powder dry and save it for later.

That right there is an interesting gameplay decision.

If it weren't for provisions, I might have to consider taking the Potion of Stamina - which seems like overkill when you have 40 stamina points worth of healing already on board.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 21 July, 2022, 05:01:53 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 21 July, 2022, 04:41:35 PM
If it weren't for provisions, I might have to consider taking the Potion of Stamina...

Don't worry, they ditch the Potions as well! 😄

I don't mind either mechanic per se, but I'd generally prefer to find/buy the gear during the adventure.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 21 July, 2022, 05:06:20 PM
Lack of provisions makes FF 21: Trial of Champions impossible to complete!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 21 July, 2022, 11:00:29 PM
I think Seas of Blood was the last one I ever bought.   You used days of rest rather than provisions to regain stamina, but there was a time limit. Made a bit more sense than the idea of a packed lunch healing sword wounds, but then again I never really questioned the idea of arcade game heroes finding ham haunches in piles of tyres that fixed them up after a hiding.

Actually now I think of it, the last one I read was probably The Riddling Reaver - a multiplayer job that needed a dungeon master. I never actually played it but read repeatedly up until my 20s - one of the most atmospheric FF books out there.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 July, 2022, 06:26:40 AM
Deathtrap Dungeon - 2nd playthrough

I managed to get half way last time, but got murdered by the minotaur (due to my lackluster skill of 9). I used a house rule (roll 4D6, apply as you wish for stats) to get myself skill 11, stamina 16, luck 11 and tried it again.

Man, though: this book is brutal towards the end! Even with the good stuff circumventing the T-Rex, there was still a tough battle with the ninja, the bloodbeast and then finally the manticore, which murdered me!

I'm sensing this is a book that absolutely requires a skill of 12. Even there, there's a really useful item that allows you to circumvent a major battle, but getting that item drops your skill by one. There's a possibility of a chain mail shirt earlier in the book that gives +1 skill, but the rules say you can't go above your initial skill. Maybe I can keep it and only apply the +1 when I lose a skill point?

This book makes me want to play with the rules on skill a little bit. I don't recall much beyond the first book that actually does adjust your initial skill (there's a sword in Warlock). But there are skill+ items. I think I need to replay this with skill 12, but even then it's going to be a close run thing. That paragraph about there being an easy path that anyone could win on - that's just bollocks!

Oh, and my stamina is pretty low - given the number of high skill fights I get into. Not what you'd call a well-balanced book.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 July, 2022, 09:58:04 AM
Deathtrap Dungeon is incredibly brutal. I don't think it's possible to complete with a skill of less than 11, and you can say the same of IotLK and CotSW.
I've seen a lot of people saying they allow themselves skill bonuses from items in combat but not on skill checks, which is logical imo but also kinda against the rules: I think it's your book and you should play it your way though. Better than skipping fights after a while which I definitely did as a kid.
Funt, if you got to the Manticore you were almost at the end!

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 21 July, 2022, 11:00:29 PM
Actually now I think of it, the last one I read was probably The Riddling Reaver - a multiplayer job that needed a dungeon master. I never actually played it but read repeatedly up until my 20s - one of the most atmospheric FF books out there.

Love this book. I've ripped bits of it off for D&D campaigns in the past.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 July, 2022, 10:04:41 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2022, 04:16:17 PM
You mentioning not owning some books reminds me I've got a handful of spare FF books from job lots that I've picked up. I should offer them to others here.

So at the moment I have spare copies of:

Forest of Doom
Island of the Lizard King
Scorpion Swamp
Rebel Planet
Demons of the Deep
Sword of the Samurai

Trade or free (pay postage) to anyone who wants them on this thread.

They're all puffin originals, with the green stripe (no Wizard / Scholastic rubbish here!) from cheap job lots I've picked up. All a bit tatty, faded spines etc as you'd expect, and not played by me.
I was hanging onto them till I had another couple and then thinking of ebaying them as a lot myself, but I'd much rather someone here had them if they're wanted.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 July, 2022, 06:52:28 AM
I think I've been misunderstanding the Skill rules for decades - they are somewhat ambiguous. Here's Warlock's blurb (repeated in most of the books):

(https://i.imgur.com/ZZbl5sV.png)

I'm spotting the difference between the language of "SKILL score", and then just "SKILL", or "SKILL bonuses". There seems to be a suggestion that a Magic Weapon with a skill bonus increases your skill (potentially beyond the initial value), as long as you wield it, because it's a bonus, rather than a permanent adjustment to your initial skill value. I wonder what the intention was - and whether anyone's ever asked Ian or Steve.

There is an explicit sense of this dynamic in Warlock (entry #27), when you find an enchanted sword. That entry is very clear - saying boost your current skill by 2 (and raise your initial skill by 2, but only as long as you wield it). That feels very much like the intention for all magic weapons - you bump the initial value up temporarily as long as you're using the item. Another way of saying it is it's a bonus. This feels a lot like an Attack Strength bonus, but perhaps you would use the magic sword also to take down a door during a skill test.

I know they wanted the books to be simple, rules-wise, but this ambiguity, and the difficulty of some of the books, makes me wonder at the intention. Island of the Lizard King has the Fire Sword, for example, which (if you're reading the rules as never go above initial skill ever) provides no bonus at all if you're max-skilled and up against the 11/11 black lion.

You could extend this out to magical apparel - Deathtrap Dungeon has the Amulet of Strength (+1 SK) and Chainmail Coat (+1 SK), which are pointless if you're max-skilled (which really you have to cheat and set to 12 at the beginning to have any hope of success). Using these as magic items that provide a bonus would give someone with a natural skill of 9 or 10 a chance of winning the book.

Oh well, I suppose if it's ambiguous, it's up to me how I interpret it.

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 July, 2022, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 July, 2022, 06:52:28 AM
Oh well, I suppose if it's ambiguous, it's up to me how I interpret it.

Definitely this, I think.

I've completed Temple of Terror at last - the desert / journey to Vatos bit feels epic, but it's by far the smallest part of the book as what follows is a full-on dungeon crawl. It took me a long time to finish until I worked out that to get one of the 5 dragon statues you need to have made what looks to be the wrong decision earlier in the book.

There's a couple of very hard fights in the book and the two villains are rather underdeveloped - old Malbordus at the end is pretty rubbish - as well as a few points where the book will say 'do you want to use item a, b or c if you have them' and there's no clue as to which will work and monsters being scared / depowered seemingly at random. There's also a point at the end where a dwarf shows up from Yaztromo and gives you an item and dies which is annoying - how did he get ahead of me? Why didn't the two of us start out together? This would have worked better if, say, Yaztromo had sent him via the route I didn't take at the start as insurance (this also offsets him basically saying 'the world will be destroyed if we don't stop Malbordus, I'll send one under-equipped guy'). I think overall it suffered a bit from going from the longer form WotT / Freeway Warrior books to this, which is a bit more basic.

On the flip side I really liked the 'reverse' scavenger hunt from the messenger of death and the deserty / tomb setting: this book was a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 27 July, 2022, 04:38:30 PM
The Rings of Kether

This was another brand new one for me. I assume the titlular rings refer to a drug ring, rather than Saturn-esque rings, as the plot places me as a space detective in the Narcotics division, trying to stop the flow of the drug Satophil-d from the planet of Kether itself.

I decide to start my investigations at Kether's starport. I draw a blank asking round the port itself so instead head to a seedy dive bar, where I bribe a barmaid (via her garter wallet) and she points out a couple of people I might like to investigate.
I settle on a dangerous, grotesque looking woman and tail her back to her apartment, then tail a second suspect who leaves her apartment - this guy spots me but instead of attacking, asks me to meet him in an hour. When I get to his hotel however he's been murdered!
A note on his body identifies him as Arthur Flange and that he'll be meeting his contact, Clive Torus, at a cafe the next day. I go to meet: no Clive, but I'm accosted by a gunman on the way out. A firefight ensues: with his dying breath he tells me Clive was taken to 'Sparks'. Although I think this means Clive must be dead I go to Sparks anyway where I am predictably captured by two obvious hired goons.
I give these guys the slip and eavesdrop to find out I was to be set up to meet the late Clive's wife and collect 'the documents'. Sounds useful! I decide to meet Mrs. Torus at the gardens, but do a little reconnoiter first which gives me my favorite line in the book:

'If you wish to take out the sniper turn to X, or if you assume he's harmless and meet Mrs. Torus anyway turn to Y'

Of course, I eliminate the sniper, but it's a double-double cross as poor Mrs Torus gets blown up by a bomb and some other guy nicks the documents. I steal a car and give chase - there follows a neat little car chase sequence, which is a first for me in FF: eventually I ram the other car off the road and recover the documents that show when & where the operation is underway.

First stop is a small island, where I steal a huge powerlift and ram through a door (crushing four guys) to gain access to the complex. Once within I totally guess a riddle before encountering and defeating Zera Gross (my first suspect, and one half of the operation)

From here my final stop is the drug production asteroid. The space around it is mined: I blast my way through (I'm informed thanks to the incompetent mine placement, shooting one makes them all go up) but must fight the asteroid defenses. This is my first ship to ship combat and my ships weapon strength is terrible and I am quickly in trouble - in desperation I fire all my missiles and then am able to limp through the fight with just 2 shields remaining. PHEW.
I elect to enter the asteroid via an emergency hatch rather than the main entrance, super sneakily. I evade a couple of hazards with little effort, find the drug lab and bust it up. I take some Satophil-d, which enables me to defeat an alien in an anticlimactic if hilarious way, then totally bluff my way through a cubed room and confront the nefarious Blaster Babbet, head of the operation. I easily see through his ruse - a fistfight ensues, but he's a pretty weak enemy and it's off to paragraph 400 with the drug ring smashed and Babbet behind bars. Victory!

This is a weird book and doesn't really feel like a Fighting Fantasy book at all. It's sci-fi so there's no fantasy, and there's very little fights - I had three, and I think at least two of them were avoidable, plus one ship to ship battle. I did however have to test my luck and especially my skill multiple times. This all feels quite on-point however for a book where I'm a detective, rather than a fighter.

It was however very easy - I finished it at first attempt. There were a few hazards and traps I fell foul of, but the damage wasn't too bad and I had plenty of pep pills (provisions) to get me through. At one point I was presented with 6 buttons and literally pressed the wrong one five times, but the damage was only 1 stamina point per go and I just healed it back up. In an Ian Livingstone book I would have been toast long before. There were no items to collect, and a lot of the choices I later found were false ones: quite often I've have three options but one would be a dead end, another might lead to a puzzle or fight and the third would be the true path, but crucially the first two would send me back to the correct one which made it all very forgiving. I'm not sure if there's any auto-death paragraphs in there at all.

Finally the writing is very terse and description quite sparse, but it's written in quite a jokey, lighthearted way - there's a feeling it's lightly poking fun at itself and the noir genre as a whole. This again makes it feel quite un-FF-ish, but also quite endearing.

Far from a classic but I enjoyed it more than the other sci-fi books to date (Starship Traveller, Space Assassin, Freeway Fighter). I'm quite tempted to play again with a load of different choices and see what happens as I suspect instead of a 'true path' there's several different routes one can take to arrive at the same point.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 27 July, 2022, 05:14:21 PM
The sci-fi books have never really appealed, and to be honest I've yet to read a review that convinces me otherwise! The car chase sounds intriguing, though - how did that work?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 27 July, 2022, 05:48:16 PM
Yeah, in fairness it's hard to recommend this one to anyone beyond the hardcore gamebook fan.

The car chase was an extended sequence of choices - speed up here, slow down here, sideswipe and so on. It was different, but again the fairly undescriptive style could have made it a lot better.
Flicking through it in search of auto-deaths (there are a handful) it seems there's also two possible victory paragraphs! Is this a first for a FF?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 27 July, 2022, 06:07:55 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 27 July, 2022, 05:48:16 PM
Flicking through it in search of auto-deaths (there are a handful) it seems there's also two possible victory paragraphs! Is this a first for a FF?

I think Scorpion Swamp is the first (three different victory endings depending on who you were working for). Still pretty rare at this stage of the series, though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 28 July, 2022, 01:28:23 PM
I love this book, and it's easily the best of the SF ones. I enjoyed your write-up, and it was fun to see the choices you made, since I remember the book well as I replayed it and then mapped it last year. (I didn't keep the map though, I just wanted to understand its structure. There are several self-contained sections (each a location) where, assuming you survive, you then move on to another location, usually with a choice of where to go. There is usually more than one way of getting to each location, so there is no one true path, although I did manage to work out the shortest route.)

I'm glad you got to the car chase on your first go, it would have been a shame to miss it -- I think it's great fun! It's more than 60 paragraphs altogether, which is an enormous chunk of the book, but worth it.

There are a few auto-death / -fail paragraphs. There is at least one in the car chase, where you can crash and die. There's another one where you were captured by the goons and escaped, where if you don't escape they shoot you dead. There's also one where you just run out of clues and your investigation stalls, which is very anti-climactic, but it's your own fault if you get there because, as you say, it is a very forgiving book. You pretty much have clues handed to you, and if you run out of clues the baddies try and kidnap you anyway, giving you more clues, and there are several routes through the book. I don't consider that a fault though, because (1) it was written for children, and by book 15 the publishers had probably begun to receive reader feedback that some of the books were too hard, e.g. Deathtrap Dungeon, and (2) it is fun to replay and explore bits you missed the first time round. Unusually for an FF book, both of the two main boss baddies turn up in other parts of the book, not just at the end.

You seem to have found a pretty good route on your first go though. The set-up with Clive Torus and his wife gives (to me anyway) the illusion that there is an actual plot, and that you (the detective) have stumbled into someone else's story; like a gamebook novel instead of a dungeon crawl that just goes from room to room.

I presume your shot Zera Gross instead of wrestling with her, because if you beat her to death then with her dying breath she gives you a clue to get through the cubic rooms to Blaster Babbet. Or you can just blow up his asteroid, but I prefer the face to face showdown ending as it is more dramatic.

Glad you liked it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 29 July, 2022, 07:08:38 AM
I felt a need to defeat the first ten originals, so by hook or by crook, that's what I did - which involved utilizing save points (basically taking a snap-shot of my character sheet) at key points. I found this necessary with Caverns of the Snow Witch and House of Hell, because surviving requires some optimal choices. (Quite funny that [spoiler]spending any treasure in Caverns results in loss, damage or[/spoiler] is just pointless. You're better off leaving it behind.)

Anyway, here's my chart of the first ten books - the "How to win" sections, naturally, are entirely spoilerific - so fair warning! SPOILERS AHOY!

(https://i.imgur.com/iMO8rKc.png)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 29 July, 2022, 10:58:22 AM
Love that sheet Funt. Has everyone done the first ten now?

It's interesting looking at them as a list as there's a lot of variety in there and you see the authors playing around with the format. Given they're children's books, several of them are obscenely difficult: I think I prefer the 'find the path' difficulty of HoH over the 'loads of difficult fights' difficulty of CotSW (with DD combining both approaches) but I've definitely found myself most enjoying books that allow variation from a single determined path and reward a bit of thought rather than turn left or right decisions being key. Part of that, I suppose, is that I'm approaching it both as an adult and as someone who is trying to work their way through 30+ gamebooks so I find it satisfying to get through in three runs or less - as a boy I had no issue playing Deathtrap Dungeon hundreds of times and I wonder if that was the intent when they were written.

Also interesting to see how high Skill is essential for these books and that the claim that even the weakest stats can triumph is pretty much untrue. I now reroll my skill if it starts less than 9 rather than commit to a doomed playthrough!

Quote from: Richard on 28 July, 2022, 01:28:23 PM
I love this book, and it's easily the best of the SF ones. I enjoyed your write-up, and it was fun to see the choices you made...

Thanks Richard! I did really enjoy it: my critique of it was more based on it being a fairly atypical FF book, rather than it not being fun. I agree it's the strongest sci-fit one so far and there's not many to follow, I think.
I've had a little replay of it taking a different route through and it was fun to see that you can take quite a different path with regards the clues and the like and still get to the end- this is good writing I think and I really appreciate it. It is pretty easy if you think about your choices, but that shouldn't really be a complaint when compared to say, Space Assassin, which had too many options where pressing button A or opening door B just led to instant death with no foreshadowing at all. I didn't get the blow up the asteroid ending, so I might give it another go - it's light enough to go through and it does feel like there's a real plot there rather than a dungeon crawl.
Oh, and I did indeed shoot Zera Gross! I assumed she'd have some tough combat stats as her vast size was emphasised several times!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 29 July, 2022, 11:13:01 AM
"Definitely not a car mechanic!"   :lol:
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 30 July, 2022, 10:18:29 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 July, 2022, 10:04:41 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2022, 04:16:17 PM
You mentioning not owning some books reminds me I've got a handful of spare FF books from job lots that I've picked up. I should offer them to others here.

So at the moment I have spare copies of:

Forest of Doom
Island of the Lizard King
Scorpion Swamp
Rebel Planet
Demons of the Deep
Sword of the Samurai

Trade or free (pay postage) to anyone who wants them on this thread.

They're all puffin originals, with the green stripe (no Wizard / Scholastic rubbish here!) from cheap job lots I've picked up. All a bit tatty, faded spines etc as you'd expect, and not played by me.
I was hanging onto them till I had another couple and then thinking of ebaying them as a lot myself, but I'd much rather someone here had them if they're wanted.

Bit cheeky of me to ask this but I'd be happy to pay some postage for these unless they've been snapped up. I'm an occasional lurker on this thread because I love a bit of FF but usually only play with an old school friend of mine. We've been playing them together off and on for 20 years or more but not systematically so we barely ever complete any of them. In fact I think we've literally completed one, Keep of the Liche Lord, last year! And City if Thieves, although that one I completed on my own and went all-in on map making and multiple play throughs. We have played all the FF books at least once though, and lots of them multiple times. Usually take turns on who will do the initial dice rolls meaning we can blame each other for any crappy scores and when we get our asses handed to us in combat. Decision making is made together and we swap up reading/rolling every wee while. Perfectly normal pastime for two 42-year olds!

He's the one with the complete collection, I just have ten or twelve of them. The last couple of years we've had to play them over Zoom/Teams online though so we're kind of stuck with the ones we both have copies of. He's sent me a few doubles but it would be cool to expand our options a little bit if you still have these going spare. I already have Rebel Planet though, in fact I think it was my first one. I often went for the sci-fi ones when I was a kid, which I've come to realise was a mistake on the whole because the Fantasy ones tend to be much better!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 30 July, 2022, 10:19:47 AM
Also thanks all for a lovely and very entertaining thread! Interesting too - there's a lot of FF knowledge here!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 30 July, 2022, 01:05:12 PM
Hey Blue Cactus! Not cheeky at all. A couple of them have been snapped up but I still have Forest of Doom,
Island of the Lizard King and Scorpion Swamp (and Rebel Planet) going if you want them?
If you don't mind not having the original Puffins, you can get a lot of the Wizard re-releases on ebay I think pretty cheaply!

I like the sound of the way you're playing. Have you played any of the Duelmaster books? They're designed for two players and written by the same guys and set in the same world as the Way of the Tiger series that we've been gushing over. They might work for you guys if they're still available - Arena of Death was always my favourite but I can recommend Blood Valley as well.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 30 July, 2022, 01:15:41 PM
There's also FF's duo gamebooks Clash of the Princes: The Warrior's Way and The Warlock's Way.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 30 July, 2022, 02:01:02 PM
We did try Clash of the Princes, don't think we got very far but that would be worth bother go. I haven't actually looked into the other Duel Masters books. I do seem to remember trying Way of the Tiger years ago, Cretan Chronicles and Lone Wolf too. From you guys' chat it sounds like the Tiger books might be worth another go. Somewhere or other I have an official Grail Quest pencil too...

Like you say I could no doubt pick some FF books up cheaply on eBay, just haven't got round to it what with other life stuff. I do much prefer the Puffin editions, all part of the aesthetics / nostalgia for me. But I saw your kind offer there Barrington and thought it was worth a shot! Definitely interested in the ones you have left. (Except Rebel Planet! I think the last time we played that we had the most pathetic death, we basically ran out of money and couldn't buy any food cubes, so presumably just starved to death in some apartment building having achieved nothing!)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 30 July, 2022, 02:06:13 PM
My entire collection consists of, in no particular order:

Deathtrap Dungeon
Fangs of Fury
Caverns of the Snow Witch
City of Thieves
Armies of Death
Starship Traveller
Keep of them Lich-Lord
Sky Lord
House of Hell
Rings of Kether
Rebel Planet
Talisman of Death
Phantoms of Fear
Appointment with FEAR
Stealer of Souls
Island of the Undead
Legend of Zagor

and a couple of new ones:

Crystal of Storms
Assassins of Allansia

Actually more than I thought!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 30 July, 2022, 02:58:46 PM
Stealer of Souls is a good one.

What is Assassins of Allansia like?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 30 July, 2022, 04:16:24 PM
Quote from: Richard on 30 July, 2022, 02:58:46 PM
Stealer of Souls is a good one.

What is Assassins of Allansia like?

I enjoyed it. Basically someone has put a bounty on your head and you're on the run, moving between locations and deciding where to go and who to trust while you try and work your way towards the big baddie. I got quite invested actually, I really wanted to get to the bottom of things. Being a target made it feel kind of personal! Need to try that one again at some point.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 August, 2022, 10:01:39 AM
Mighty collection there.
I also have Assassins of Allansia and I'm looking forward to giving it a go: good to hear it's a fun one. I heard it's very tricky - I really like the concept.

The Duelmaster books have you both playing at the same time, but at certain points (at the end of most paragraphs) you get told to wait until the other player gets to a wait prompt and then you both read on. Taking actions gives you keywords, eg if you take an item or kill a monster it'll say record keyword x and then if the other player enters that area later he'll be prompted to ask if you have that keyword: if so he'll be redirected to another paragraph saying there's a body here, or an open chest, and so on. I've not played Clash of Princes but I'm assuming they work in the same way.
Arena of Death is like a little head to head version of Deathtrap Dungeon. It's the same arena as featured in the first WotT book, but also has an underground area.
Valley of Death is a more lopsided one in that one player is a hunter and the other the quarry. The hunter player starts off at a huge advantage - a powerful character, and able to set allies and traps about the valley, but the quarry character has the easier ride, if they play smart. It's a very interesting dynamic.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 August, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Way of the Tiger: Inferno!

This is it - the finale of WotT. Sort of. This was the last book in the series as of 1987, but a final book was released in 2014 to resolve the series.
Reading around the series before I started picking up Assassin onwards I heard that this book has a poor reputation and generally is regarded as a bit of a clunker. I'm playing the 2014 rerelease as I couldn't get hold of a copy of the original, and I understand there's been some errata applied but I don't know what (as I have avoided spoliers!)
Here we go.

We begin with peace in Manmarch. The Legion of the Sword of Doom is finished following Honoric's death, and the forces of the Rift have melted away, ceasing their raids. Irsmuncast is broke, and I have needed to borrow heavily to repair it following the events of the last book (this, sadly, is irrelevant) but all is well.
The book starts with the sighting of a force from the Rift. I have been awaiting news of my old friends Glaivas and Dore, who have mounted an expedition into the Rift itself because Dore is a lunatic: instead what we get is a bunch or Orcs in the company of none other that my old enemy Cassandra and my old pseudo-ally Foxglove. They are asking for amnesty to enter the city. Gwyneth hates Foxglove as she thinks it was she that betrayed the city in book 5 and suggests we ride out and capture them, but I am supposed to be a just ruler so I grant said amnesty and Cassandra and Foxglove are brought before me: the latter in a very sorry state. Cassandra, who is in charge of this delegation, gives me the news that The Black Widow now rules the rift in place of Shadazar (killed by me in the previous volume) and that she has captured Glaivas: I can swap him for my sceptre which I must deliver myself into the Rift. There is no word of Dore who is apparently 'within the Rift'.
I can read Cassandra with my Shin-Ren skills and see that she speaks truly, but that she is desperate to kill me. Foxglove on the other hand is in a pitiful way, corroborating Cassandra's story and both begging for her life and pleading not to be sent back to the Rift. Cassandra tells me she used Foxglove to get into the city and now I can have her or she will take her back, giving me the choice of sending her back, having her executed at Gwyneth's request, or having her held as my prisoner to accompany me into the Rift. None of these seem like ideal choices here: I found Foxglove to be my most useful advisor, but I know she's evil - however two choices here seem bang out of order so I choose the latter. I also have the option of detaining / killing Cassandra but I did declare amnesty so I let her depart - her parting advice is to take the narrow path on the fourth tier to avoid a trap even I could not hope to survive.

There is no question of me not heading off to rescue Glaivas so I gear up and Foxglove and I depart. I decide to show trust to Foxglove - not guarding her and so on - in the hope that this will be reciprocated. This is a mistake. The day before we're due to enter the Rift she comes to me in tears saying how awful things have turned out for her etc. and asks for an embrace. This should have set the alarm bells ringing but I offer one anyway - before I can stop her she has 'stolen a kiss' and cast some enchantment magic upon me. However! I have the Shin-Ren skill and I do not fall under her spell through supreme force of will. I have the option to let her go again here, but I decide to still bring her into the rift with me, resolving to watch her closely and it looks like this is a mistake too as she then asks for the sceptre and I hand it over before she gives it back, confident in the knowledge that she can make me to stuff. Ooops.

At last we descend into the Rift, Foxglove staying twenty paces behind me. The rift is split into levels or tiers - I imagined it as being as sort of giant natural cavern, but it's more Moria-like, each level containing rooms, stairways, passages and the like. The first tier is mainly deserted but the second tier is described as populous, being made up of complete villages and towns that both trade and fight with each other for resources and 'are too focused on staying alive for frivolity'. It's a wretched sounding existance and it really strikes me here what a horrible lunatic the likes of Dore must be, as he came here essentially to attack these settlements and kill as many of its inhabitants as possible. I need a disguise, so I silently kill a Shambler - a small orc-like creature - and steal its grime-covered furs. A skilled mimic I can copy its gait and hopefully pass for one. I steal some chains and put them on Foxglove - she is not happy about this - and drag her after me pretending she is a captive.
It's not long before my disguise is tested as I am confronted by an Orc Chieftan and a bunch of his mates who wants to take Foxglove from me for some terrible purpose. I'm not handing her over, so I challenge the orc to one-on-one combat - he finds his hilarious, as I am a lowly Shambler, but he's not laughing when I snap his neck with the teeth of the tiger throw.

Leaving the second tier we descend further and find the scene of a battle: a bunch of Dark Elves and Orcs, obviously slain by good guys of some kind. The third tier is thick with smoke and the sound of its denizens. Here am ambushed by none other than the four adventurers I met way back in book 2: Eris the magician, Vespers the swordsman and priests Thybault and Taflwr. They ambush me, because killing hapless Shamblers is their thing, but I throw off my disguise (after taking a serious amount of damage) and reunite with them. Here Foxglove makes her move, throwing herself at them and asking for help in renouncing evil, but because I'm not enchanted, I'm able to put a stop to this and tell her not to speak to them. So far bringing Foxglove along has been interesting but not helpful! I'm not really sure how these four guys have got so far into the Rift but their assistance is welcome, and we combine forces and move onto the fourth tier, which is infested with strange, grotesque mushroom trees and lit by fires and furnaces. Following Foxglove's advice (and common sense) we opt to avoid the main route down as it is said to be guided by Fire Giants and instead take a sinister, quiet secret pathway down into the depths.
The pathway is quiet, a change from the bustle of the main level. Everything is shrouded in cobwebs, and it seems we really are on a secret stair. It is here that I peer inside an ancient samovar only for a small spider to suddenly burst out of it and run INTO MY OPEN MOUTH before climbing up my Eustachian tube and 'before long I can feel it fidgeting about under my brain'. WTF. Horribly the book asks me if I now have two brain-spiders so it seems this horror can strike more than once. Emerging from the secret stairs I urge my companions to take the narrow path, as Cassandra suggested, only for us to be pitched headlong into a smaller chamber where a reception committee awaits.

It is indeed another trap: my old enemies Cassandra, Tyutchev and Thaum are here - although, the boom states, hiding from the Black Widow instead of doing her bidding. They have drawn me here, but their looks of glee turn to surprise when they see I have arrived with backup. The heroes and villains exchange insults as the battle lines are drawn. As ever, Thaum opens the fight with his magic, in this instance a blinding flash - I am wise to it and shield my eyes, but Eris and Taflwr blinded. I use a shuriken to stop Thaum casting again and close with him whilst Vespers and Thybault clash with Cassandra and Tyutchev. He is a weak opponent and easily felled, but before I can finish him off I am blindsided by Tyutchev who I throw into Cassandra. It seems that my guys are in trouble - Thybault is down, Eris is still blinded. I engage Tyutchev, miss two kicks in a row and am getting royally killed when another threat bursts into the room - The Krathak (it is not explained what this is) being driven by Dark Elf minions of the Black Widow, come to kill everybody. Everyone flees through a secret door to the Worldworm - a gigantic snake statue that it is said coils to the very centre of orb. Everyone dives into it's maw (I elect not to kill Cassandra as she holds the maw open) and everyone then plunges out into a void. A prayer to Kwon cannot help: instead I plunge into a huge spiderweb, at the mercy of the gigantic Black Widow as she emerges from the darkness, a juicy morsel for the queen of evil...
THE END..?

So: this book wasn't as bad as I'd heard, but it wasn't great. What was helpful is that in the original printing I understand that this indeed marked as THE END, whilst in my newer edition it simply says something like 'you're doomed, unless you can escape..?' and finishes there. For the gamebook player of 1987 this must have seemed an appalling end to the series, and I can see why a final book was commissioned.

That aside this was the weakest book in the series by far. There was no use of my ninja skills aside from Shin-Ren, no mention of Kwon until the very end, only one fate roll, and only one fight (I don't count the one against the orc)- and in that, against both opponents, it ended after 3 rounds regardless. The writing is still good, but it's lacking some of the atmosphere of the previous books: I found it hard to visualise the environs of the Rift and some parts seemed skimmed over, especially the ending which felt terribly rushed - one minute I'm locked in combat and them suddenly a massive unknown monster arrives, we jump into another monster and then it's all over. It very much feels like either the authors ran out of steam or motivation to finish and just wrapped it up. Having Foxglove with me didn't make a huge amount of difference although that may have changed had I been entirely under her spell or taken a different route: in the end she just made herself small whilst the battle raged around her and, I assume, escaped into the Worldworm with everyone else. There was no clue as to what happened to Glaivas or Dore. Finally it was pretty easy: the first WotT book I completed in one attempt - although I finished it on 4 endurance so and probably would have died had the battle with Tyutchev run it's course. Skimming through there are some auto-death paragraphs but they seem to relate to making poor choices.

A note on the art for the new edition - it looks like it was painted in full colour for the hardback Kickstarter editions and the reproduction here in B&W is poor, with the images often being quite murky: there's a nice picture of Foxglove and a great one of the spider at the end but the others aren't good. There are however some lovely maps of both orb and Irsmuncast.

Book 7 coming up soon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 August, 2022, 05:38:40 PM
Quotethe book asks me if I now have two brain-spiders

Love this.

I wonder if the rushed ending was due to the writers being told this was the final book? That could certainly put a dampener on the creative spirit.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 August, 2022, 11:11:29 PM
Talisman of Death

I enjoyed this book, as the world is so well realized. I always rated the level of detail provided for Orb's pantheon of gods.

The built-in restart options are interesting, and (in some ways) just give you permission to do what most FF players are already doing - avoiding sudden death scenarios. This gets a bit ridiculous during the Greyguilds segment where you lose the Talisman, as there are lots of "well, now you're dead" options that teleport you back to the edge of The Rift. It's quicker, in most cases, to just go back a section and try the other option (or re-roll luck, or whatever), as, effectively, that's what the restart is allowing you to do.

I love that the enemies Tyutchev, Cassandra and Thaum are lethal. It's quite common in a D&D campaign that a wise player needs to know who to fight and when to beat a hasty retreat. FF don't tend to go for that much - making almost everything a battle you can win. The potential bar fight (although you're better off avoiding it) has a great tactical structure - forcing you into some difficult decision making.

The second save point was well done, as it let you know you didn't need to go back to the start to pick up things on your new shopping list. The fact that you get five torches, flint & tinder - and are told to be careful with them, proved something of a red herring, in that counting those or having or not having them isn't part of the narrative.

Summary: a really good FF book, and a gateway drug to the Way of the Tiger series. I'm looking forward to taking on Sword of the Samurai (FF20), as I've never played that one, and it's by the same authors.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 02 August, 2022, 12:07:47 AM
Yes I wasn't interested in the Samurai one before, but I might have to try it.

I completed WotT2 today, will write it up tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 02 August, 2022, 09:42:40 AM
Quote from: Richard on 02 August, 2022, 12:07:47 AM
Yes I wasn't interested in the Samurai one before, but I might have to try it.

Yep, it was one I nabbed off Barrington recently. Like you, it had never really appealed before, but after all these effusive write-ups of WotT and Talisman of Death, I'm itching to give it a go!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: I, Cosh on 02 August, 2022, 10:19:12 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 01 August, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Way of the Tiger: Inferno!

So: this book wasn't as bad as I'd heard, but it wasn't great. What was helpful is that in the original printing I understand that this indeed marked as THE END, whilst in my newer edition it simply says something like 'you're doomed, unless you can escape..?' and finishes there. For the gamebook player of 1987 this must have seemed an appalling end to the series, and I can see why a final book was commissioned.
Fairly certain I didn't realise it was really the end and assumed there'd be another one along shortly.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 August, 2022, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 01 August, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Way of the Tiger: Inferno!

So: this book wasn't as bad as I'd heard, but it wasn't great. What was helpful is that in the original printing I understand that this indeed marked as THE END, whilst in my newer edition it simply says something like 'you're doomed, unless you can escape..?' and finishes there. For the gamebook player of 1987 this must have seemed an appalling end to the series, and I can see why a final book was commissioned.

When I played it in the 80s, I was mostly confused, because it was such a downer of an ending (to the book - it wasn't clear it was the last one by any means). With the ambiguous wording, it seemed like there was a hint that this wasn't the real closing paragraph - you know what game-books can be like - so I remember searching the book for a hidden ending that I thought I must have missed.

1987 printing:
QuoteHere on the seventh tier you will make a juicy morsel for the Queen of Evil, unless you can master your despair and somehow rid Orb of its darkest blight.

The end


2014 printing:
QuoteHere on the seventh tier you will make a juicy morsel for the Queen of Evil, unless you can master your despair and somehow rid Orb of its darkest blight...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 02 August, 2022, 05:22:39 PM
I'm glad I didn't have to wait 27 years for the next book!

Way of the Tiger 2: Assassin!

I actually started this book as soon as I finished the first one, but after I got killed for the third time I took what was supposed to be a short break. I finally came back to it yesterday!

You start exactly where the first book ended, which means you have to escape from a castle filled with your enemies. It's entirely in keeping with this, and quite cool too, that there are a couple of encounters where the book asks you if you have already killed them in the last book. But the downside of this is that you are basically rewarded if you chose (or defaulted to) the shittest way to enter the castle in the last book, and penalised if you found the best route in. Having avoided fighting an actual god on the way in, I sometimes had to fight him on the way out. (It's possible to avoid him on the way out too, but only by a lucky dice roll and then having to fight something else.)

That aside, escaping the castle is quite easy. Staying ahead of your pursuers is harder. First I was hunted down and torn apart by a pack of dogs. Then, heading for the hills, I fell into a labyrinth of goblin-infested caverns, which is the toughest part of the book. After being killed there twice, I cheated and read the whole bit, and discovered that it is indeed very difficult all the way through-- Frodo would not have survived this! And even if you escape from the caverns, you pick up the plague while you are in there! And then -- with very low endurance by this point -- you have to fight a ghost!

I read enough to discover that there is a third route which avoids the caverns altogether, which involves a side-quest featuring mermaids and sea elves. I wasn't excited about that, so I decided to take a little break and come back to it later.

Yesterday, I picked up the book again, and took the third route, which is a much, much easier one than the hunting dogs and the goblins. (In fact, if you survive the dogs you still end up among the goblins anyway!) I save the life of some sea elf prince and he rewards me with a magic item which I correctly suppose will come in handy later. The next encounter is the scary ghost from before, only this time I still have all my endurance points so I actually manage to defeat it. In doing so, I rescue four rather hapless adventurers who were fighting it and losing; a rare moment of comedy in this series. I am surprised to read a sentence which tells me that my character is nevertheless still impressed at how powerful and competent they are, which is rather at odds with what I have just read about them! Maybe ninjas don't get out much?

They're a bit suspicious of me, given that I'm dressed in full ninja garb, but they heal my wounds at least. I leave them to probably all get murdered later, and strike off on my own path. I kill a brigand, using my new Poison Needles skill that I earned as my reward for completing the last book. He turns out to be working for the baddies whose leader I assassinated at the end of said book. I enter a city, where I am ambushed by three characters I recognise from FF's Talisman of Death -- Tyutchev, Cassandra and Thaum! They're cross with me because I killed their friend in the last book. (That was actually an avoidable encounter in that book, but the introduction to the second book insists that it definitely did happen. Fortunately, I actually did kill that guy, so I don't have to feel aggrieved about it!) Outnumbered, I use the sea elf's present, which conjures up a water elemental to fight them, and it kills Thaum, but the survivors somehow summon a monstrous scorpion deity which makes short work of me. Starting again from the start of the ambush, I keep the elemental in reserve until the scorpion god shows up (and my human adversaries make themselves scarce), and then the scorpion god defeats the elemental! At least the elemental did manage to reduce my foe's endurance by half, and I manage to finish it off -- but this whole encounter is absolutely brutal! It's pretty good though, as it gives you a variety of options, including which order to attack your opponents in (not that you get to fight them one at a time, it's more about who don't you want attacking you from behind while you're fighting the other two!) and which weapons to fight them with. The scorpion god, while incredibly tough and not really a fair fight unless you have a magical weapon handy, is a memorable opponent, and is described in the text as much more horrifying in appearance than the rather tame illustration on the front cover (first edition). The god doesn't technically die, it is banished to the Void (hell itself apparently), in the process literally opening a seemingly permanent portal to the Void right here on Orb! But that's a problem for another day, it seems! Sorry about that everyone!

That massive epic fight appears to be unavoidable no matter which route you take through the book. But I am rewarded for one of my decisions with a new +1 combat modifier and I can choose which attribute to apply it to. Which is nice. Unfortunately, Thaum survived in the playthrough in which I survived, so I'll probably have to face him again in another book.

Leaving that city, I am asked to choose which way to go. The map at the front of the book makes this an interesting choice, instead of a random one. Since my objective is just to get home, I choose the route which seems to make the most sense (later reading of the bits I missed shows I was right!), and I'm soon in another city. I find a monastery dedicated to my own god, where the friendly monks help me out, but then I'm killed by an assassin who is disguised as the chief monk!

Instead of re-starting, I just go back to a bit before then, and this time I use my "Arrow-Cutting" skill to block his throwing knife and survive. But he escapes, vowing to get me another time. (He just might; this is the Mandrake character in one of BB's playthroughs of a later book.)

A ship takes me half-way home, and drops me off on an island, which I have to cross and then get on a second ship from the other side which will take me the rest of the way. While on the island, I accept a side-quest in which I kill two monsters and rescue a child. The lord who rules the island then welcomes me as his honoured guest and puts me up for the night, during which I am assassinated by another ninja, of the rival Way of the Scorpion. He kills the guards and then sneaks into my bedroom by climbing upside down on my ceiling! We fight an epic duel with swords, shuriken, and poison needles, and he gets me with poison. He's impressed at my resolution in the face of death, so he honourably chops my head off so I don't have to endure a slow death by poison. Which is nice of him.

For my next playthrough I go back to when I landed on the island and this time I ignore the side-quest, as it took up too much of my endurance. This choice has an interesting effect: it means I meet the lord of the island a day earlier than I did in the last playthrough. Last time, he had just won a battle; this time, the battle hasn't happened yet, and he wants me to prevent the need for it by assassinating the enemy general! This general turns out to be a shapeshifting demon, who kills me. On my next and final playthrough, I kill the demon and take the credit for winning the war -- nobody but me knows that they would have won anyway! I kill the ninja assassin this time (using two of my Inner Force points in the fight), and that is the last encounter. At paragraph 420 I get home to a hero's welcome.

I really enjoyed this book, and it has all the things I liked about the first one. I'll start the third one soon!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 August, 2022, 09:53:48 AM
Awesome writeup Richard! So glad you're enjoying these.

I didn't try the undersea route in any of my plays and I quite fancy going back and giving it another try. I really loved this book: the fight against Tyutchev, Cassandra and Thaum is great and the final duel against the ninja rule. I also don't see what's so good about the adventurers - I just met them again in book 6 and they're totally rubbish there too.
I think Cassandra & co must have the record for how many times they've killed me across various books.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 August, 2022, 05:38:40 PM
I wonder if the rushed ending was due to the writers being told this was the final book? That could certainly put a dampener on the creative spirit.

Reading around, the publisher and the authors did have a falling out causing the abrupt end. It sounds like Mark Smith and Jamie Thompson felt they were being messed around and jumped ship to write Duelmaster instead, hence Inferno not being to the same standard as the others.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 August, 2022, 12:14:32 PM
Freeway Warrior Book 2: Slaughter Mountain Run

Back to the Apocalypse! It's another long writeup I'm afraid because these books pack in a lot. Split into 2 parts, because of length, and work.

With two down I've got the hang of these books now. The combat can be quite swingy, but generally isn't a huge threat: what is is the barrage of skill checks you encounter as you play through. Often failing one will deal you a chunk of damage, but sometimes they can be outright deaths. There's also a lot of randomised rolls that can do the same, and on these, rolling low isn't always a bad thing. This is a composite playthrough though, because I still died a couple of times going through it.

If you've finished the previous book you get extra skill points at the start. Stealth is by FAR the most important and most tested skill. In the last game I quickly learned to keep my stealth at 5, here I boosted it to 6 meaning I could pick up more items, take a stealth penalty, and still have stealth 5. FWIW I went into this with Stealth 6, Driving 5 and Shooting, Perception and Field Craft 4. For my starting items I chose the pistol, binoculars (very useful in book 1), a flare (as I needed to make a rendezvous) and 2 meals.

The last book ended with me (Cal Phoenix) successfully escorting the colony to Big Spring but ended on a cliffhanger as the Mavericks abducted my ally / love interest Kate. This book begins by confirming that the leaders of the Mavericks and the Detroit Lions, Amex Gold and Mad Dog Michigan, were old terrorist buddies and the two gangs have joined forces to attack Big Spring. The attack has been successfully repulsed between books with the gangs taking heavy losses, but Amex Gold has given Kate back to Mad Dog as a show of loyalty. Mad Dog has reached out to bring two more clans into the alliance, the New Orleans Saints and the Angelinos. With such overwhelming force the leaders at Big Spring decide the only hope is to break out and convoy over to Tucson.

I was a bit disappointed to see this setting up the same plot as last game, but thankfully I immediately state my intention to withdraw as scout for the colony and pass responsibilities over to Rickenbacker (the pilot guy) whilst I head off to San Angelo to find Kate. First though we have to break out and this is where the book begins. With the Lions off at San Angelo we armour up a bunch of trucks and blast out, ramming through the Mavericks barricades and scattering their men. I dodge through some hazards and once we're clear split off from the convoy, agreeing to rendezvous at Kent on Interstate 20 in seven days.

I follow the Highways for a while: on Highway 158 the book notes I'm able to increase speed to 30mph! It's baking hot and I pull over into a ramshackle ruin for shade and rifle through an abandoned hardware store: in the heat this saps my endurance, but I pick up a couple of odds and ends: a toolkit and some plastic tubing. Pushing on past several Texas landmarks, I ambush and brutally kill two Clansman, lootting them for extra water and ammo and medical supplies and also taking some rope and a leather face mask. At Sterling City all I find is feral cats but approaching Broome I'm forced to duck into a used car lot to avoid a large group of Lions bikers. Here I also scavenge some engine oil.

Reaching San Angelo after a full day's drive, only the city centre is still standing and heavily reinforced with roadblocks and barricades, firmly under the control of the Angelinos clan who, I note, are heavily tooled up but a lot of their equipment seems rusted and in poor repair. I steer the car quietly through the ruined suburbs, eventually parking it in the Sears Megamart underground garage and getting a quick two hours sleep before attempting to infiltrate the city on foot at first light when the heat is more bearable. My plan is to break in through an office block on the perimeter wall.

I'm able to gain entrance by busting through some warped timber barricade and get into the lobby of Lone Star Oil & Gas. As is my habit I keep left, eventually going downstairs into what would have been the office restaurant and kitchens. There's an Angelino in the kitchen: I foolishly give him a chance to surrender and after he shoots me up a bit I put him down and loot him for bullets, med supplies and a blanket as well as looting food from the kitchen and a cleaver, which is a better weapon than my knife. From there it's into San Angelo itself. The bulk of the clansman are congregated at the Reagan Memorial Stadium where it seems some kind of motorcycle rally / race will be happening whilst Mad Dog signs a pact with a guy called Mekong Mike, the Angelino leader. For some reason I'm convinced Kate will also be there (I'm right, but not sure how I arrived at that) so I resolve to break into the stadium , which is full of hostile lunatics. Given the choice of stowing in one of the service trucks containing bike parts of getting in over the wall I choose the latter as the first seems suicidal. My strong stealth score sees me through: inside the race is being prepped (there's some Ben Hur comparisons) but my eyes are for the media box, where I spot four clansman and none other than Kate herself!

With all eyes on the track, I gain entrance to the observation tower. There are guards from each of the two clan factions, but I sling my flare into the corridor and move in to silence them quickly (and no doubt messily) with my cleaver before busting into the media room, flattening one enemy immediately and gunning down a second. I now face the two clan leaders: Mekong Mike is described as mustachioed and brightly dressed with a steer skull tattooed on his forehead, whilst Mad Dog wears black and has receding long hair going to grey. I'm quickly into a knife fight with the former: he's as skilled as me, and although my cleaver gives me the advantage I drop him in six rounds (its a timed fight) but am left on just 5 health. Mad Dog has meanwhile been on the radio alerting the gang: he has a gun trained on me, but before he can fire Kate wallops him with a chair and down he goes.

At this point, insanely, I am not given the choice to finish off Mad Dog Michigan. Given he has a blood debt against me, and has kidnapped Kate twice and done goodness knows what, and is a former member of HAVOC and leader of a huge gang intent on taking over the Southern United States, it seems remiss to leave him unconscious in a pile of chair splinters. So of course I totally do that and instead satisfy myself with stealing his special map (and using a load of medkits) before we do a runner. There's a full hue and cry in effect as we descend into the body of the stadium itself and Kate is smart enough to spot a service hatch to take us into an electrical duct and from there into some kind of service tunnel beneath the stadium. I don't have a torch or indeed any source of light having not learned my lesson from last time so we blunder around here for a bit (one of my deaths occurred here when I opened a hatch right into a massive group of vengeful Angelinos), eventually using the cables to feel our way along in the darkness before light from glass bricks set into the ceiling brings us to a hatch at the stadium entrance. It takes us an hour to reach the perimeter wall, but our way is blocked by four clansman who arrive in a jeep. I don't fancy making a run for it so I wait till they're spread out and we try to steal their jeep: there's no keys but I nab some antiseptic dressings and after deliberating, a shotgun and two shells before we make a dash for a fire station. We're spotted and under fire: I take a chance to grab a fire extinguisher (not having one cost me last game) and switch my cleaver for a fire axe which has the same stats but is a lot cooler. It's a full in chase into Sears - a clansman grabs Kate, crushing her throat but a blast from my pistol sends him descriptively flying like a leaf in the wind - and back to the car where we can high-tail it out of San Angelo with both gangs on our tail. Oh, and Mad Dog has taken over the Angelinos now, smart move leaving him alive. It's not like I haven't killed dozens of other bad guys...

End of part 1.

As you can tell I'm still enjoying this a lot. Same issues as before - fiddly inventory / encumbrance management and random numbers often causing mishap - and I only had one fight in this first part (The Angelino boss) with all the others being quick kills with my gun or knife. The writing is still evocative and full of detail though, the use of real places & a map based off real Texas gives a real sense of travel, and the heat is used to good effect - I really don't want to be out in the middle of the day! Now we're linked up again, Kate is resourceful and cool unlike the Mungos of the FF world who either drag you down or die instantly (although the sparse dialogue between you and her is pretty weak - but we're not reading this for good dialogue really) and there's a feeling of a real world existing beyond just the things you immediately encounter yourself. And the bad guys names are excellent.

Part 2 to follow!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 August, 2022, 12:26:07 PM
Oh dear, your character and his inconsistent conscience! Avenger wouldn't have been so sloppy!

Great write-up as always.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 August, 2022, 09:11:04 PM
Way of the Tiger 3: USURPER!

This is a tough book. Rather than describe each playthrough, I'll just describe the two main routes through the book.

At the start, if you have played the previous books, you can roll one die and the result may increase your various skill modifiers. I rolled a five, which was a great result, adding one each to my kicking and throwing abilities.

At the start of the adventure the chief monk tells me about my true identity as the son of a murdered king, and that my destiny is to return to the city-state of Irsmuncast and reclaim my birthright from the usurper of the title. He teaches me a new special skill of my choice. Since if I succeed I will be ruling a city, I think that the skill of reading people's hearts and intentions (not telepathy, just very astute reading of body language and micro-expressions) will come in useful, instead of another combat skill, so I go with that. When I'm ready to embark on my quest, I next encounter someone from the last book, the lord who I won a battle for by assassinating the enemy general, and in gratitude he offers to send 100 samurai to assist me. They will need time to prepare so they will be following me later.

I now have to choose between two routes to Irsmuncast, both for me and also, separately, for the 100 samurai who will be following me. The shortest and most direct route is to sail to the port of Doomover, a dangerous city I visited in the first book, which is full of my enemies. Alternatively, I can go to Tor, which is further away but friendly, where I can meet an ally, Glaivas, a minor character from the first book (a bit like Mungo except he didn't die). On my first playthrough I choose Tor for both me and my samurai army, and in my next six playthroughs after I die I return to this point or to a later point, so confident I am that this is the right strategy (it isn't!).

Route 1: via Tor

I sail to Tor and meet Glaivas without incident. There's a funny paragraph in which we are looking at a map (each WotT book has a full colour, detailed map) and I point out to him that one of the cities is in a different spot to where it was in the map in the first book (which I have checked and it's true!), and Glaivas just shrugs it off as "a scribing error."

My new special skill comes in handy as I recognise an assassin who is trying to look all casual and that, and so I decide to avoid the roads and trek through the countryside. Glaivas comes with me. We walk through a forest (why don't we at least have horses?) and I'm attacked by a panther, but Glaivas makes himself useful and gets rid of it. I am then attacked by some demon or possibly deity from the Spirit Plane, which begins to materialise in the physical realm, but I escape to the Spirit Plane myself, and then find my way to an allied deity which defeats it for me. (From reading around this bit subsequently, this is a fairly large and detailed mini-adventure in which, somehow, I managed to make all the right choices on the first go! There are a lot of opportunities to fuck up and immediately die here.)

Unfortunately the land between Tor and Irsmuncast is the domain of a thousand year old undead git called the Fleshless King, and all the humans who live here are his slaves, kept in line by his army of orcs and halvorcs. (It's actually quite a good bit of world-building, and it hints at plenty of stuff you are not actually told about as well as the things you are told.) We have to fight some orc slavers (my first death), then escape from some undead Nazgul types, but Glaivas pulls his weight in all of these bits, fighting orcs, giving me holy water to throw at the undead, and casting a spell to fend them off. At the other side of this evil realm, the anti-Mungo says farewell and we part ways. It's a good section of the book.

I next encounter a knight (this I later find is where the two main routes through the book converge). This is a tricky encounter, as although he is not evil and is potentially a very useful ally to have later, there are several opportunities to fuck this up, and either having to fight him (he's tough) or having him just tire of you and wander off. But on my second attempt I get him to give me a ride all the way to Irsmuncast on his horse, and heal all my wounds -- and he is going to come back and help me later!

I arrive in the city of my birth, explore it a bit and learn about it from various people. Basically the usurper is an evil bastard who taxes everyone into poverty and generally oppresses them, unless they convert to the religion of Nemesis the Cleansing Flame, the most powerful of all the evil gods. So there is a ready supply of downtrodden, resentful peasants, who I easily manage to recruit to my cause. Next I speak to the leader of some warrior women called Shieldmaidens, who used to be the city guard under my father's rule, and recruit her too (on my second try as I fail to impress her the first time). Then I speak to an influential merchant, and I have no idea if I have successfully recruited him or not. (Reading around the book a bit later on, there appear to be three possible outcomes of this meeting, one where he sends a werewolf to kill you, and two where he doesn't do that but I currently don't know which of those two is better.)

There is a fourth faction I could attempt to recruit, some lofty priests who don't care about current affairs and politics, and I decide not to bother. I infiltrate the palace, find a useful magical artifact, win a duel of minds with a telepathic weirdo, and reach the throne room, where I meet the Usurper. He turns out to be a demon. He summons a second demon, and then together they summon two more demons!

This is a savagely brutal fight, and not really a fair one to be honest. When you fight the first demon, he automatically injures you at the start of each round for 4 endurance points of damage (from a maximum score of 20), even before you roll dice and stuff to see who hits you. If you do hit him, your blows only cause half of the normal damage, and on the first hit you automatically lose 2 endurance points just for touching such a powerful demon (he's "a Duke of Hell"), so you are actually better off choosing whichever method of attack you have the lowest skill modifier for, because you are better off if you lose each round! And if he hits you, you lose three dice of damage! You can reduce this damage by 3 or 4 points if you have either of two magical items (I have one of them), but that's not much good if you roll three sixes! After two rounds of combat, he summons the second demon and then just watches you two fight it out. (When later on you fight him again, his reduced endurance score is given in the text, so it doesn't make a difference whether you hit him or not earlier.)

The second demon is less powerful than the first, but you can't use Inner Force (a damage multiplier) against him. After two rounds against him, the third and fourth demons are summoned. At this point you can drink a healing potion, which I don't have. Fortunately I didn't have to fight them, because the knight from earlier shows up and fights them both. If you manage to defeat the second demon, the knight has vanquished the other two, but is too badly injured to help you any further, and you have to fight the first demon alone. That fight is even more unfair, because instead of letting you choose between kicking (I have a +3 modifier) or punching (0 modifier), the text says you can now only punch him, even though I was allowed to kick him earlier! Fuck off!

This is just too much; the fight is completely unwinnable without the potion of healing. So I go back to almost the start of the book and choose the alternative route.

Route 2: via Doomover

The most annoying thing about this route is that when I arrive at Doomover, instead of entering the city I just get off the boat a couple of miles up the coast and skirt around the place instead. WTF?!!! If I had known that was an option, I would have chosen it in the first place!

Another slightly annoying thing about the Doomover route is that it has two healing potions! However only one of those is available to me, as the other requires a special skill I don't have.

The first encounter is an evil martial arts monk who challenges me to a duel. This is a really good section of the book, as the duel arena is a large area with many choices of where to go (and there's another map). A lucky dice roll means I get to stealthily take him out with a poison needle, instead of getting into a massive fight. But I have since read all of this section, and it's just very good indeed. (It reminds me of the car chase in The Rings of Kether.) I find the healing potion on his corpse. (There's another paragraph where if you injure him without killing him, he drinks it in front of you!)

On leaving the arena I encounter Honoric, the evil dude I thought I had assassinated with poison at the end of the first book, but he has survived. This fight is inconclusive, as after a while the fight is interrupted and you both live to fight another day. He's obviously going to be a recurring character in this series.

I am then pursued by a Golem, which I manage to shake off by leading it to a bottomless pit ("the Rift" from Talisman of Death), and then I reach the knight where the routes meet up.

But even with the healing potion, I still can't get past these bloody demons!!! They've killed me four more times!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 August, 2022, 11:25:32 AM
Good writeup Richard. That fight at the end of Usurper is, imo, the hardest one is the entire series. It's ridiculously tough. I think I only got through by inner force on the usurper demon the second time when his endurance is reduced. Not being able to kick is indeed bollocks given kicking is the best thing to do in almost all other fights!
I've never gone via the Tor route and it sounds a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 August, 2022, 11:26:33 AM
Freeway Warrior Book 2: Slaughter Mountain Run

Part 2

Kate and I are speeding South on Highway 277, a pack of bikers on our heels. At the bridge on the South Concho river we run through - literally - a dogfight: two groups of men fighting packs of coyote and wagering on the outcome. I'm not given the option to slow down so we go straight through the dogs and end up with the surreal situation of one stuck halfway through my windscreen. I roll poorly, Kate can't get rid of it, so I have to brake and finish it off with my fire axe. The dogfighters (understandably) set the rest of the dogs on us but Kate covers us so we can escape.
By the time we reach El Dorado I'm shattered, so despite being chased we decide to pull over and rest and the Angelionos drive on past. Unfortunately, we meet them later strung out across the road in a line. This triggers a crazy pursuit / running battle to the Caverns of Sonora - this is a real place - which is populated by a bunch of people alluded to be First Nation Americans in animal skins and warpaint. My car by now is too badly damaged to continue and we're forced to duck into the caves as the cave people (as they're called) and the bikers fight it out. The fighting is brutal in close quarters, but the cave dwellers are victorious and we're able to slip away in the aftermath. I siphon fuel from the Angelinos' bikes but I don't have enough to reach Kent and things look glum. As we leave, Kate points out that the cave people aren't preparing a funeral pyre for the slain bikers but instead are cooking them...

It's a slow, long drive to Bakersfield the next day, during which I exhaust my water supplies. I can't heal damage from thirst using the medkit, so I use my supplies liberally to heal all other damage I've suffered, but I've now effectively reduced my maximum endurance. Kate and I are suffering from heat exhaustion when we reach Bakersfield and we have no choice but to look for fuel and water. All I find is a carton of cigarettes but Kate scavenges some food (I have plenty of this) and some dry white wine (this will not help our dehydrated state) for a romantic meal only slightly ruined by the library we shelter in catching alight (good job I kept that fire extinguisher!)
At Fort Stockton we're ambushed again, this time by three men in the remains of military uniform. It turns out this trio are marines out of Brownsville, heading to Fort Bliss near El Paso, but now stuck after losing their vehicle. They're friendly and friendlier still when I produce the map I stole from Mad Dog - not only does it show potential stops on the Freeway where we might be able to get fuel but also shows Mad Dog and Mekong Mike's plans to take over the East coast, showing the various clan strengths and pockets of resistance in detail. The marines leader, Sgt. Haskell, wants to get this to Fort Bliss and I offer to take the three of them to the rendezvous at Kent where they can join the convoy and we can all head there after.
By now we're really low on fuel and although we're tight for time we can only crawl down the Freeway to a fuel stop, running in fumes with the three marines sitting on the bonnet. At the fuel stop the only fuel available is in a tank secured with a bomb and code. It's not too hard to crack - there's a quick shootout with some clansmen whilst this is going on, but before long we have refueled and are en route to Kent, although I'm gradually dying of thirst.

At Kent we link back up with the convoy. Things don't look great - the Mavericks have been shadowing the convoy and moving ahead into the mountains, presumably to set up an ambush. Mad Dog has linked up with the Saints and now leads three clans our way from San Angelo, whilst an unknown Mexican clan has also crossed the border and is rampaging North. Our only choice is to head into the Apache Mountains and push for El Paso (this is the titular Slaughter Mountain Run) - the most direct route, but straight through the Mavericks.

A small skirmish aside, when we do encounter the Mavericks they're engaged in a pitch battle with the Mexicans. My awesome plan is to drive the convoy at speed through the warzone - which we accomplish with surprisingly little grief. In radio contact with Fort Bliss, they advise that they are also under siege, this time by the Mexicans. Scouting ahead, Haskell and I kill some Mexican clansmen who are looking to reinforce the siege and find a ground to air missile, but I don't take it as I don't wish to reduce my stealth score. Roughly two paragraphs later we arrive at the barricade and I'm forced to admit I didn't take the missile, meaning instead I have to sneak up to it and set off some explosives - this however is covered by a single stealth test. The barricade is destroyed and we make it tinot Fort Bliss - hurray! It's celebration time until our spirits are dampened by the arrival of Mad Dog, who has now recruited the Mexicans as well to form an army over 1000 strong to encircle the fort in a ring of steel....

That's book 2 complete. As per my other post, really enjoyed this although the ending felt both a bit anticlimactic and quite similar to the ending of book 1. The first part was definitely the best with various branching paths to getting to Kate - this one was a lot more linear with several 'false choices' where you arrive at the same location no matter which option you choose.
The bit at the end with the missile is a good example of how these books work - in a FF, not having the missile would be game over: here' it just makes the game harder (although I expected it to be a bit harder than a single stealth check: feels like the book needed to wrap up at that point). With the right stats this was overall easier than the first book and a lot easier than FF or WotT.

I'll do Sea of Blood next which is another brand new one for me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 08 August, 2022, 08:23:49 PM
I enjoyed that write-up! I'm surprised the army still exists in that post-apocalypse America.

I finally finished Usurper! today. I managed to beat the demons by deliberately losing (with the help of punches and lucky dice rolls) the first two attack rounds against the first demon, to avoid losing the endurance points you lose if you hit him, and then managing to win two rounds against the second demon, without taking the health potion until the other two demons show up. Then I managed to beat the second demon (while the knight fought the newcomers), and somehow didn't lose any endurance in that fight. Then I noticed a loophole when fighting the Usurper again: if you didn't hit him earlier, the book doesn't tell you that if you hit him you only cause half damage! So I was able to legitimately inflict normal damage, which I doubled with Inner Force and finally dispatched him!

After that there are no more decisions to make. The knight leaves, and I go to the roof of the palace to take down the Usurper's flag, the signal for the revolution to start. Since I successfully recruited the peasants, the shieldmaidens, and apparently even the untrustworthy merchant (he has some mercenaries), the Revolution is successful. Even my 100 samurai all show up! [spoiler]It turns out that they only survive if you send them via Doomover, not Tor![/spoiler] I am crowned Overlord of Irsmuncast!

I have ordered the fourth book!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 August, 2022, 09:54:56 AM
Cheers dude. I don't think there's much of the army in post-apocalypse America tbh.
In the tradition of post-apocalyptic stuff I immediately assumed these army guys would be evil so I'm surprised they aren't (or at least yet!)

Glad you wrapped up Usurper. That fight is so cheesy, I think that's a legit way to win.
How did you do with Golspiel? I only didn't get betrayed by him because I used Shin-Ren to sus him out, but there's a load of stuff in the next book about dealing with his betrayal, so I assume it's the default setting.
Really enjoyed reading your playthrough.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 09 August, 2022, 10:46:09 AM
Thanks! It turns out I did manage to recruit Golspiel to my cause. I also used the Shin-Ren skill to realise he was planning to betray me, but actually that doesn't make any difference to the outcome! It's just an extra paragraph to add something to the encounter. It all just depends on how you answer his questions.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 09 August, 2022, 11:05:19 AM
I've just re-read your write-up of Usurper on page 20 -- you certainly had an easier time than I did!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 August, 2022, 03:39:59 PM
I'm pretty sure I still died a few times in Usurper: I mainly remember being killed over and over by that stupid golem!

I'm working from home today and had a go at Assassins of Allansia. I haven't done a full writeup as I suspect it'd be full on spoilers for most, but it's quite good fun. The premise of the book is that Lord Azzur of Blacksand has put a bounty on your head for the killing of Zanbar Bone, and has dispatched a group of assassins to kill you off.
As you can tell just from that it's got lots of nods of other books, referencing a number of other places and characters, with a cameo from a FF companion of old (no, not Mungo) and I'm not giving much away by saying it ends as another book starts...

I got killed three times on my playthrough before I made the end: strangled by a hand of death, killed in combat by a Decayer and assassinated by one of the assassins in an especially gruesome way having drunk water contaminated by devil bug larvae.... that aside the book was reasonably straightforward, with two of my deaths coming right at the start and most of the fights being quite straightforward: the bulk of the assassins rely on killing through stealth and subterfuge and are therefore a bit weedy in combat, although a couple of them are brutal. That said I didn't win the book, as I got all the way to the end only to find I'd missed one of the assassins and it was game over for me! The assassins themselves are a varied and interesting lot though and they're the best thing about the book imo.
Overall it was kind of fun with it's concepts and callbacks to other books in the series but wasn't the strongest of books on it's own. The map itself seems fairly linear and you acquire a huge amount of items, most of which do nothing, and a lot of which award SKILL bonuses. This is good as the first part of the book has LOADS of ways to lose skill.

Should also note the art is pretty bad in this book, although I have a posh edition with a lovely map of Allansia in it and a great Karl Kopinski cover.



Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 August, 2022, 03:54:13 PM
Here's that map - lots of familiar places on here:

(https://i.imgur.com/KrBY8mV.jpg)

...and because this is pretty much the only place I can show this off:

(https://i.imgur.com/WFmG5v3.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 August, 2022, 05:37:29 PM
Very nice!

Are those new locations (Flax, Largo, Dogfish Island) in the book?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 August, 2022, 05:48:19 PM
Dogfish island is where the book begins. I may have passed through Flax in the book too, but I didn't pay that much attention!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 August, 2022, 06:34:12 PM
Hey Jimbo, how are you getting on with Sorcery 3?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 August, 2022, 09:08:10 AM
Quote from: Richard on 10 August, 2022, 06:34:12 PM
Hey Jimbo, how are you getting on with Sorcery 3?

Haha, good, thanks! Must be well over a third of the way through now (2 of 7 serpents dispatched) but my main focus has been FFs. I seemed to be forever playing catch-up to Barrington, so I've ploughed ahead with the titles I own and got another five playthroughs/write-ups in the bag for when everyone else catches up to those books.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 11 August, 2022, 10:34:44 AM
Tonight I will be playing Legend of Zagor over Teams with my pal. I'm not committing to a full quest report but I will let you know how it goes and how we inevitably meet our doom!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 11 August, 2022, 10:36:34 AM
I see from the inside back cover ad there was also a Legends of Zagor board game with miniatures and whatnot. Interesting!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 August, 2022, 10:59:46 AM
I've never played that so very interested in how you get on / how it plays!

I'm sure I remember seeing an advert for the boardgame. It's qute Heroquest-esque, but had an audio element where Zargor would mock the player, or produce sound effects. Tbh it sounds incredible.

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 11 August, 2022, 09:08:10 AM
I seemed to be forever playing catch-up to Barrington, so I've ploughed ahead with the titles I own and got another five playthroughs/write-ups in the bag for when everyone else catches up to those books.

I've slowed up on purpose on the FF books as I felt I was getting too far ahead! I have flexible working and my job is generally reactive, so I can have quiet periods where playing a gamebook is possible (and actually easier than reading a normal book) so I get lots of opportunity to play them that I guess others don't. Currently I'm getting my pirate ass handed to me on Seas of Blood.

I have the first 25 (so everything up to Nightmare Castle) and then sporadic books after that. I think realistically I can do the first 35 but won't be able to go much beyond that given the cost of the books, but I did splash out a little and get myself Moonrunner and Shadow Warriors. So there's a way to go yet!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 August, 2022, 11:35:53 AM
Moonrunner is a fantastic book. Looking forward to seeing what you make of it.

The [spoiler]Time[/spoiler] Serpent is phenomenally hard to beat! I think the third book is the hardest, all because of that fucker!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 August, 2022, 12:13:16 PM
I've done Demons of the Deep, Sword of the Samurai, Trial of Champions, Creature of Havoc and Beneath Nightmare Castle. Five books, and only one win! 😆
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 11 August, 2022, 01:45:16 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 11 August, 2022, 12:13:16 PM
I've done Demons of the Deep, Sword of the Samurai, Trial of Champions, Creature of Havoc and Beneath Nightmare Castle. Five books, and only one win! 😆

Mate, I've completed about two in the last 25 years and have played them all, some several times! My pal Ric has a compulsion to always move on to a new book after each defeat so by the time a book comes back round again we've forgotten what we did wrong the last time.

I cannot adequately describe the sheer emotion in his eyes last year when he realised we were reading the final paragraph of Liche Lord and we'd actually done it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 11 August, 2022, 03:43:23 PM
Regular readers of this thread should be made aware that this month's Fortean Times- out today- has a cover and interior feature about Fighting Fantasy gamebooks.

From the cover: "The multi million selling gamebooks that sparked a moral panic and became a cultural phenomenon." Also with an Ian Livingston interview.

SBT
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 12 August, 2022, 06:05:14 PM
For you knowledgeable Gamebook-ers, what would you say is the current state of the art in this genre?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 12 August, 2022, 06:39:18 PM
I wouldn't know. I'm only familiar with gamebooks from the 80s and 90s. There are some new FF books out next month, one with art by Tazio Bettin who did the recent Dexter.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 August, 2022, 10:43:08 AM
Quote from: wedgeski on 12 August, 2022, 06:05:14 PM
For you knowledgeable Gamebook-ers, what would you say is the current state of the art in this genre?

That's a good question. Gamebooks are definitely niche stuff now, so the art is very variable. I think a lot of it is sadly below par but as Richard says Tazio Bettin is doing the latest FF and I've just got a gamebook with art by Neil Googe.
My Freeway Warrior books have new art and it's quite cartoony in feel - feels more modern and less classic, if that makes sense?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 13 August, 2022, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 11 August, 2022, 03:43:23 PM
Regular readers of this thread should be made aware that this month's Fortean Times- out today- has a cover and interior feature about Fighting Fantasy gamebooks.

From the cover: "The multi million selling gamebooks that sparked a moral panic and became a cultural phenomenon." Also with an Ian Livingston interview.

SBT

Thanks for the tip. Good article.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Robin Low on 14 August, 2022, 05:57:20 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 13 August, 2022, 10:43:08 AM
Quote from: wedgeski on 12 August, 2022, 06:05:14 PM
For you knowledgeable Gamebook-ers, what would you say is the current state of the art in this genre?

That's a good question. Gamebooks are definitely niche stuff now, so the art is very variable. I think a lot of it is sadly below par but as Richard says Tazio Bettin is doing the latest FF and I've just got a gamebook with art by Neil Googe.
My Freeway Warrior books have new art and it's quite cartoony in feel - feels more modern and less classic, if that makes sense?

There's a FB group called 'Fighting Fantasy (and other gamebooks),' that's pretty active with a lot of enthusiastic fans and new creators. There's a number of people doing fairly decent artwork for these books too. The group gives a pretty good insight into what's happening at the moment.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 14 August, 2022, 06:42:50 AM
Funt Solo- it really is. And I had no idea of the upcoming two books, but will very much be buying them. Somehow I missed all the kerfuffle about the books back in the day- they were entirely a positive thing in my experience, and can't remember any controversy at all.

But it does occur to me that with new FF gamebooks on the shelves, joining new Target Dr Whos, we now only need reissues of the Pan Books of Horror and Sphere Conans to recreate my entire WH Smith experience circa 1982.

SBT
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 August, 2022, 10:53:18 AM
SEAS OF BLOOD

This has to be one of the hardest FF books I've ever played!

I think the setup here is very cool - you're a pirate and are competing with another pirate, Abdul the Butcher, to see who can gather the most loot in a set amount of time. It's an unashamedly evil setup as you storm around the coast attacking settlements and ships at will and the whole thing is a real switch from the usual FF dungeon crawl style plot.
I also really liked the pirate setting being Arabic in nature, rather than the more traditional westernised 'golden age of piracy'.

I found the book brutally hard. As well as your usual stats you have stats for your crew (handled much better than in the risible Starship Traveller) and without a top-notch crew you basically stand no chance. Crew attrition is high with numerous conflicts, many of which award little to no loot. I constantly found my crew getting worn down, usually causing me to lose the book either through having no crew, or simply having insufficient crew to get to the end. I'm not sure it's possible to complete the book without maxed out stats for your crew, and pretty reasonable personal stats as well.
Once I DID get to the end, I inevitably found that my treasure haul was way below the required amount to win and ended up getting laughed out of the competition by Abdul.

The book does seem very open in the number of paths available, but playing it several times it gradually went from enjoyable to a bit of a slog. I didn't even come close in around ten attempts, even with cheating maxed stats on the final run. No writeup but I did die in a number of entertaining ways, including being squashed by a door, acid to the face, eaten by sharks and run over by a giant snowball. There are some very cool moments within the book however - a slightly WotT style battle at the end against a cyclops, a lot of Harryhausen-esque monsters (I felt the whole book was a bit Sinbad-y) and the gambling pits are a laugh.

I think I'm going to try this one again after a break, probably with a map from the internet.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2022, 11:18:36 AM
Every time I get back into the FF books I think about buying Seas of Blood, because it sounds so unique; then I read the fairly indifferent reviews and end up not bothering!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 August, 2022, 11:35:35 AM
It's certainly unique but it's really tricky. There's a lot of insta-deaths as well, and a lot of them come out of the blue, eg. do you push or pull a lever and one option kills you. The end fight is also pretty random.
It sounds daft but the book also involves a lot of enslaving and I wasn't a massive fan of this. Not sure why but it seemed more distasteful than attacking a killing a load of monks or merchants.

Does have Bob Harvey on art duties though! Although the illustration of the hydra on the cover is way cooler than the one inside.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 August, 2022, 05:32:38 PM
I've just found a few of these in my boy's room; he got them about yonks ago and I forgot we had them.

House of Hell
Creature of Havoc
Night of the Necromancer

Which is best?

Not read/ played one for decades.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 August, 2022, 05:39:02 PM
Creature of Havoc is brilliant but extremely difficult.

I didn't enjoy House of Hell but it's regarded as one of the best (it's also fiendishly difficult)

I don't know anything about Night of the Necromancer!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2022, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 August, 2022, 05:32:38 PM
I've just found a few of these in my boy's room; he got them about yonks ago and I forgot we had them.

House of Hell
Creature of Havoc
Night of the Necromancer

Which is best?

Not read/ played one for decades.

Night of the Necromancer, definitely! You play as a ghost, trying to avenge your own murder.

Creature of Havoc good too, but pretty tough - basically impossible without making a map.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 August, 2022, 05:56:24 PM
Those two books, Creature and Night, are both much better than the average FF book.

BB's review makes me want to look at Seas of Blood again. I can't remember anything about it except the endings. But I like the idea of playing as an evil character for a change!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 August, 2022, 08:52:25 AM
I'm off to buy Night of the Necromancer then.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 18 August, 2022, 10:36:05 AM
My friend and I attempted Legend of Zagor last week and the biggest challenge was issues we had with Microsoft Teams. Took about an hour to get that sorted. Which was about twice as long as we lasted in the story!

The book is a bit different in that you choose one of four characters (all white males of course) who each have different strengths and weaknesses. We selected Sallazar the wizard and my companion rolled some decent-ish initial scores. Here is my extensive quest report:

Spoke to a priest for a bit of cryptic advice before setting off. Headed to the tavern to try and scrape up some extra money through gambling (Ric my pal cannot resist heading to a tavern in FF books). Anyway, we lost some money pretty quickly and so couldn't buy much from the local shop. Feeling somewhat dejected we boarded the ship that was set to take us to our destination and met the captain, a sea-dog centaur. He's dressed in full sea captain clobber from the (human) waist up and we manage not to embarrass him by looking at his unclothed horse parts. We set sail.

A couple of paragraphs later we got absolutely gubbed by a Wyvern.

End of quest.

In short, I still have no idea if this book is any good or not - pretty sure this happened last time too!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 August, 2022, 05:14:36 PM
Freeway Warrior part 3 - The Omega Zone

The ending of the previous book saw me rescue Kate and reach Fort Bliss in El Paso where we linked up with a small military force under Captain Frankland of the WDL only to be besieged by Mad Dog Michigan and his army of over 1000 lunatics from the various clans he had united under his banner.

The book starts with us having been under siege for a few weeks until we get the news that the clansman are bringing in a few trucks of explosives from Zaragoza - enough to blow up Fort Bliss and everyone in it. Captain Frankland decides to take a team of four out to blow up the trucks once they reach Ciudad Juarez, with that team being marines Haskell and Knott from book 2 plus me (I wondered where the other marine from book 2 went, as he is never mentioned - looks like he can die in book 2 and so isn't referred to again here, which is a shame as there's no tangible benefit to the player therefore to keeping him alive). The plan is that we infiltrate the clans base on foot and blow up their stuff, which should allow the defenders of Fort Bliss to bust out and make a run for Tucson. It's kind of the same setup as the start of book 2, except this time I'm on foot - Kate will be driving my car and leading the colony. I've kept all my gear from the previous book including my fire axe.

Right at the start I choose to take the longer, less dangerous route out of Fort Bliss. I got for maximum stealth, dodging patrols and scavenging where we can. Clansmen infest the city - I spot a large group of them looting the El paso Museum of art and building bonfires of the paintings and artworks - but we reach the Rio Grande without incident, kill the guards on the bridge and sneak into Ciudad Juarez on the Mexican side of the river where Mad Dog is holed up at the Juarez race track (he obviously likes race tracks as he was camped out in one at San Angelo). The track is packed with clan vehicles of all shapes and sizes, and Mad Dog is spotted in command. Knott heads off to secure a truck for our exit whilst we distribute our own explosives and stealth off to set them on the trucks from Zaragoza once they arrive. It goes a bit wrong for me here as I easily dispatch a guard and plant my bomb but when Knott starts up out getaway truck the clans are alerted, I bungle a roll and get shot up and eventually pulled into the moving vehicle by Haskell and Frankland, leaving half the contents of my backpack behind. With bullets tearing through the truck around us we bust out the racetrack and detonate the bombs on the explosive trucks sending a fireball sky high. Mad Dogs army falls into confusion and as we speed off into the night we can hear gunfire from Fort Bliss as the colony makes its run for Tucson.

What follows is something of a running battle: from the back of the truck I'm first battling bikers, before we stop and massacre a pack of pursuing Angelios, then detour around Columbus into New Mexico and losing pursuit in the mountains.
Ten miles out of the abandoned town of Hachita the ignition unit fails on the truck and Knott and I have to walk back in the baking heat to see if we can scavenge one. There are clan scouts there and I take a lot of wounds in a knife fight, but they have sufficient supplies on them for me to heal up and top up my now-depleted food and water. We find the part we need and choose to take the clans motorbikes back to the truck, which is a poor choice as Haskell and Frankland promptly open fire on us as they think we're with the Lions. Luckily no permanent harm is done. We also find tracks that shows the convoy breakout was successful and has passed this way - hurray! Looks like Kate (or someone) is still in my Interceptor. We camp overnight at Lordsburg and who should roll through overnight but another convoy - this time the remnants of Mad Dogs lot, led by Mad Dog himself, also following the convoy's trail. Out truck is found and another fun battle ensues as we make our escape over the rooftops, steal another vehicle (a jeep from a couple of dopey Mavericks) and the chase is on again. I'm driving, Frankland is on the heavy MG mounted on the roof: fancy driving and fnacy shooting gets us through the night, and in the end we stage an accident, setting our jeep alight and pushing it into a ravine, staging our deaths and throwing the pursuers off.

This of course leaves us walking in 90 degree heat. At the next town I scavenge a fire extinguisher (the only item that has proved essential in both previous books: it didn't here) and we're able to scavenge a Toyota pickup. I don't have the requisite item to start it but we jump start it in the end, meaning our water supplies take a hit, and we're just climbing into the car when - BLAM! - Haskell takes one right between the eyes. We take cover but no more shots are forthcoming. Looks like a clan sniper is on our trail - but where?

Knott is badly shaken and I'm not much better. We speed off to Coronado Timber Forest, and we're burying Haskell when the sniper strikes again, first shooting out our tyres and then killing Frankland. Knott and I flee into the forest where we discover signs of life and, under fore from the sniper again, find a small reinforced underground cabin. We break in via an air vent but the family within won't help us and force us out, where the sniper is waiting, and Knott is shot and killed and I only escape by running like a madman from tree to tree and climbing down a cliff before taking shelter in an abandoned hunting lodge where, luckily, I find an offroad bike which takes me as far as Tombstone before conking out.

As a reader, by now I was in a bit of a panic as it appeared the bike dying on me was due to my failure to collect an item earlier. With the assassin approaching, I take shelter in Tombstone courthouse. The sniper drives up like Streethawk, all in black leather on a black bike and promptly puts a bullet into my bikes engine, blowing it up and illuminating him nicely. As he reloads his rifle I fire, but my shot goes wide. I duck back into hiding but he has some kind of infrared binoculars and puts a few bullets through the wall I'm behind followed by a smoke grenade. Coughing and spluttering I have no choice but to bust out the door and end up face-t-visor with him. There's a little showdown at high noon moment where we stare at each other through the smoke in the morning light, then we draw, but I'm quicker and one shot is all it takes.

With the hitman dead I take all his awesome hi-tech gear including his bike and go racing after the colony where I swiftly meet Kate, who has been scouting back looking for me. Our happy reunion is brought to a sudden halt however when who should appear over the horizon but twenty clan bikers and Mad Dog himself in a souped up, bullet proof black roadster. He catches us at the girder bridge over the Pantano Wash river and sideswipes us into the crash barrier. With Kate's bullets having no effect, he tries to ram us over the side, but I brake hard and he hits the bridge side at 100mph. I accelerate past - up ahead there's an abandoned bus across the bridge and only room for one vehicle to pass. I keep my nerve, shoot through the narrow gap and Mad Dog hits the bus like a ramp, catapulting him into the air, off the bridge and far into the river below to his doom. All that remains is for Kate and I to catch up with the convoy at Tucson for high fives all round. Surely the way to California will be simpler now, with Mad Dog dead?

VICTORY!

For me this was probably the weakest book in the series so far. A lot of it felt like a retread of stuff I'd done in books one and two: the back of the book promised a journey across the titular 'Omega Zone' of New Mexico and Arizona "a region still blighted by lethal radioactivity" but this didn't really factor in - I think the Omega Zone itself was only mentioned once, by the survivalist family. Adventuring with the marines was less interesting than you'd think as they were all pretty interchangeable.

I also found it pretty easy. My skills are now very high, easily enough to pass (or at least, not catastrophically fail) most tests, I never really ran low on supplies and with the way the items work (they give you an advantage, rather than a 'don't have it and die' setup like in most FF books) I was rarely troubled and finished the book first go. Otherwise the book had the same pros (strong worldbuilding and atmospheric writing) and cons (false choices, fiddly combat) as the others. The art here wasn't quite as good as the previous two either - some good cars, but one of the pictures of a Mexican clansman had him looking like a cartoon bandit with sombrero and droopy moustache and the cover, which shows Kate and I running from a souped up bulldozer, doesn't happen at all from what I can tell.

The one thing that was fun and different was being hunted by the sniper - that was pretty tense stuff once it got going and the final battle being in Tombstone was a nice touch, even though the fight was over very quickly. The ending with Mad Dog was fun, but felt a bit tacked on and one paragraph after knocking him off the bridge I was in Tucson and the book was over.

I don't believe for a minute Mad Dog is dead and I expect the fourth and final book will be a showdown between us. Although I actually hope Kate gets him.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 August, 2022, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Blue Cactus on 18 August, 2022, 10:36:05 AM
a sea-dog centaur. He's dressed in full sea captain clobber from the (human) waist up and we manage not to embarrass him by looking at his unclothed horse parts.

I hope there is a picture of this.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 August, 2022, 12:30:39 AM
The sniper seems like a pretty cool section of the book. I wonder if there is more than one way to defeat him? And the fight with Mad Dog sounds like it was a suitably entertaining climax. A bit annoying if he's not really dead though. Hopefully book 4 has another villain.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 23 August, 2022, 07:22:50 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 August, 2022, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Blue Cactus on 18 August, 2022, 10:36:05 AM
a sea-dog centaur. He's dressed in full sea captain clobber from the (human) waist up and we manage not to embarrass him by looking at his unclothed horse parts.

I hope there is a picture of this.

There is! Maybe me saying 'sea-dog' confused the image slightly but he is a ship captain and centaur.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 August, 2022, 10:22:47 AM
I'm thinking top half is tricorn hat and a naval style coat and bottom half is a horse?
This is absolutely ridiculous, because being a centaur would make it extremely difficult to get about on a boat. No wonder this guy got you ganked by a wyvern.

Quote from: Richard on 23 August, 2022, 12:30:39 AM
The sniper seems like a pretty cool section of the book. I wonder if there is more than one way to defeat him?

There was a different place I could hide when he was approaching, but I think it would have played out in the same way.

One thing I've noticed about these books is a lot of the choices aren't hugely impactful. For example, prior when I saw the bikers burning stuff at the museum I had the choice of going one way where I could hear commotion and another way where it was quiet. I took option 1, saw the fire, then was told I doubled back and took the quiet route. The choice added some atmosphere and made the story cooler, but didn't change the route at all.
As another example, I always take binoculars but I've noticed when asked if I have them I get a paragraph that gives me some colour info (eg I can see the bikers approaching are Detroit Lions) but then I just move to the paragraph I would have gone to had I not had the binoculars.

It's similar to WotT where you may have two routes (eg. there were two ways to get in to rescue Kate) but it's hard to veer off the main path which has both advantages and disadvantages.
Fun though and keen to see how the last book plays out! I will also finish WotT and then it's back to FF. 
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 August, 2022, 10:55:08 PM
Way of the Tiger 4: OVERLORD!

Not a full playthrough this time, more of a review. Barrington Boots has written a pretty comprehensive guide on page 25, and now that I have finally read it (only now, to avoid spoilers) I pretty much did everything he did, except for one departure which I will cover when I get to it.

My favorite part of the book is the first half, in which you are ruling a city and have to make a number of political decisions, all of which have ramifications for later on, and the whole thing is presented in an entertaining way. You have a Popularity score, which is affected by the decisions you make and their consequences, and from time to time the book asks you what your score is, and if it's too low the people revolt and depose you. This happened to me once, but I just resumed playing from that bit, because I was only one point short, and I had lost one point for imprisoning someone without trial -- since it turns out that not imprisoning him causes absolutely no problems at all, I just pretended I hadn't done that and kept going.

You have to choose four advisors from a list of eight, and each individual is very different. My favourite is Foxglove, the head of the secret police and a senior person in the former, evil administration. She is an interesting character as she is sometimes loyal to you and sometimes not. If you choose another evil character as an advisor, they both gang up on you, but if you don't (I didn't, he's the guy I locked up) then she is a useful ally, as long as you don't piss her off. The evil or at least ruthless characters generally give better advice; the good guys generally give crappy advice. Your choices of what you may decide to do are restricted to following the advice of one or another of the people on your council, which frustrated me at one point when I would have liked to do a combination of two people's ideas but wasn't allowed to, but it's a completely unique kind of gameplay (as far as I know) for a gamebook.

Like Mr Boots, I could have played a whole book of this, but unfortunately halfway through you are obliged to leave the city and go on a quest to recover the stolen crown jewels. That seems like a very bad idea when I've only just begun my reign, but when the book offers me the chance to decline I think it must be a bad idea so I go anyway. (I'm right to do that as the alternative is an instant death paragraph!)

I go to some distant mountains and fight some evil ninjas who live there. This is a tough section of the book, as these ninjas are pretty deadly, but I eventually manage, and with his dying breath their leader gives me a detailed run-down about where to find the stolen jewels. That seemed a bit odd at first, but it turned out to be a bit of a ruse to get me to lower my guard so he can attack me again, causing the loss of my left eyeball! This permanently reduces all of my skill modifiers by one. But at least it does provide some faintly credible excuse for all that exposition.

Leaving the mountains, I go east because going by the map inside the front cover that seems to be the most direct route to where I'm headed next. Barrington went west here ("because I always do") and had to go to a place called the Isle of Thieves, where he stole an evil magic item which permanently reduced his Inner Force score by one. Instead, I went to another island (not named but it has a city called Haven), a much nicer place. This city is regularly attacked by dragons, so it has various defences like tall towers with spikes on top and nets above all the streets, but sometimes the dragons breach them, like (of course) today. The red dragons breath fire, the black dragons vomit acid, and their leader is a blue dragon who emits lightning. On my first playthrough here I failed to rescue a child, who got eaten, and I left the island empty-handed. Dying later, I came this way again and saved him, earning the supposedly useful help of his grateful father. However that "help" turned out to be basically irrelevant because on my earlier playthough I had discovered that I didn't need it! It's a very well-described and entertaining scene though.

(The Isle of Thieves route is basically the same -- the magical amulet Boots stole is slightly helpful but you can still make do without it. But I read it anyway and found it to be good fun. You also have the opportunity to rescue another innocent character from certain death, which I quite like -- you can rescue either of these poor people, but never both!)

Sailing on, I am attacked by a Kraken, but I see him off by blinding him with a shuriken throwing star (instead of using the magic amulet to achieve the same result). There is then a fight with some monster, after which I regain the missing crown jewels and return home to find my city has fallen to an army of orcs and dark elves. The book ends on a cliffhanger.

I'm quite keen to see what happens next, so I think I will buy book 5.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 August, 2022, 09:37:29 AM
Great review there and I'm glad you also went for Foxglove as top advisor as she is awesome. I was amused by your (true) statement that the good advisors are generally useless. Your path for the second half sounded much more straightforward! To my shame, I didn't even look at the map when choosing my overland route.

Did you become an elf-friend? I was puzzled when the book asked me if I was one but it didn't seem to make much difference.

I think this book could easily have been two books (city management book, and then the quest) and been better for it, but I thought the next book was fantastic. Looking forward to seeing what you think of it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 August, 2022, 10:31:53 AM
You can become an elf-friend on the Isle of Thieves if you rescue an elf from being sacrificed in the evil temple and then talk to her afterwards. It helps you get along with the elves you meet later, but you don't need it because you can also just be honest with them for the same result.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 August, 2022, 01:03:00 PM
I must have missed that, but I really struggled in that temple.
So I've now finished:

Way of the Tiger: Redeemer -quick review

So this is the last book in the series, written 30-odd years after by a different author but with the blessing of the original ones. As far as I know nobody here has played this book, so to avoid spoiling things I've kept a note of my paragraph's and I can put up my writeup under spoiler tags in another post anyone is interested, otherwise this is just an overview.
The book starts exactly where the cliffhanger of book 6 ends, with Avenger and various others trapped in the web of the Black Widow and facing death. The first half of the book concerns the escape from the Rift, and the second half the retaking of the city (yeah, that's happened again)

It's a real love letter to the series, with a lot of past lore and previous characters returning - including ones slain in previous books.
Various loose ends are resolved and there's a lot of continuity and resolution of arcs. A lot of care has been taken to capture the feel of the original books and it feels like it was written by a real fan of the books.

Mechanically there's a lot of detail in the Rift, where your choice of route and various interactions with characters can mean encounters vary considerably depending on who is alive and has done what or is accompanying you. The second section isn't as complex, but is satisfying. It doesn't end with a cinematic battle but it does end with two quite interesting fights in that one opponent auto hits you and the other you have high defence against, but one hit can kill (although it's possible to kill one of the two enemies earlier in the story, as I found out after he killed me in an one playthrough).

One totally awesome thing is that the book also ties in with [spoiler]Talisman of Death! I picked up the sword used by the shieldmaiden at the start of that book, and later encountered the spellcaster who teleports you out of the Rift. He is dying, but able to assist you once more[/spoiler]..

If I had to complain, as with the other revised WotT books, the art is not great - it's obviously been painted in colour and reproduces poorly in black and white. There is also the sudden introduction of a character related to Avenger who is incredibly competent at everything. Other than that though, I found this a superb ending to the series and far superior to Inferno where there were some definite issues.

That's the end of my journey through Way of the Tiger! Kwon ftw!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 25 August, 2022, 10:44:46 PM
Is the writing style similar to the other books?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 26 August, 2022, 09:57:16 AM
It's similar yes - not quite the same and not quite as good, but close enough (and the book was engaging enough) for me to not really notice.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 August, 2022, 12:21:40 PM
Appointment with F.E.A.R

An old favourite of mine this one. As a kid I was super-into Superheroes and was desperate to complete this back in 1985, but never, ever did - partially because I wasn't able to really work out the clue bit, but partly because I never realised that the four different powers essentially give you four separate solutions.

Super strength is the obvious choice as it gives you automatically high skill but I seemed to remember ETS was always the best power to choose as you can be Batman (it actually was mainly useless) I tried both below.

I tied myself in knots trying to work it out and eventually the book ended up in my bookshelves, making several house moves with me but never seeing the light of day on it's aged pages - until now. The Silver Crusader is back, baby!

Super Strength Silver Crusader to the Rescue!

Silver Crusader foils Tormentor, saves jet! The villainous Tormentor is off to jail, and the Silver Crusader has part of the clue to track down F.E.A.R!
Silver Crusader saves woman from fountain beast in Radd square! A man gave him clue, but it made no sense, so he went to work!
Silver Crusader gets chewed out by his boss, goes shopping! He witnessed the kidnap of Millionaire Drew Swain, but when he rushed to help, he was gunned down by the Mantrapper's energy cannon and killed. What a useless goon!

Gadgets Silver Crusader to the Rescue!

Silver Crusader investigates bank robbery! The Alchemists were at work here. He also finds a clue to track down the notorious Ice Queen.
Silver Crusader stops shark attack! Children saved. He also gets s clue to track down a mysterious 'Menagerie Master'.
Silver Crusader catches Tiger Cat! Feline villain was attempting to rob a dairy! ThT'll teach her.
Silver Crusader catches Fire Warriors! Douses them with extinguisher from his utility belt and won without a fight.
Silver Crusader stops pickpocket! He also found the 1st part the clue to enable him to stop the FEAR meeting!
Silver Crusader skips work, goes shopping again! This time, forewarned with a clue, he witnesses the kidnapping, but is able to track down the Mantrapper and defeat him and his cronies. All in all, a good days work.

Day 2
Investigating mysterious attacks, the Silver Crusader tracks down The Ringmaster who was murdering the jury that convicted him. He easily defeats the Ringmaster's lions with his gadgets!
Silver Crusader goes to the museum, discovers the dreadful Mummy! He fails to do anything and runs away! (I remember the Mummy being unstoppable without strength or energy blasts)
Silver Crusader defeats The Devastator at the library with his deadly acid! Booklovers rejoice!
Silver Crusader stops a rampaging android at Whirls Court! Deciding to save the citizens instead of pursuing the Titantium Cyborg, he discovers the vital circuit jammer. Another good days work!

Day 3
The FEAR meeting is today and I don't have the right clues. Game over again.

Well, this certainly brought back some old feelings associated with this book - those of being pretty useless. The Silver Crusader is pretty hapless in that with some poor choices you can mess up murder investigations, fail to stop all sorts of rampaging enemies and completely miss all the clues so I never really got the feeling of being 'super', more like someone always struggling to catch up. I will finish this, but serious work is needed to find the true path as the sheer number of numerical clues given to you (if you see evidence of criminal x, add or subtract y from the paragraph) is very large and it all adds up to a tightly plotted and very difficult to navigate book.

Objectively then the book is a mixed bag: it's frustrating and the setting is a weird one - it's full of little jokes with the names of the various places you can go and references to other Superhero characters and genres, but it's also surprisingly grim in places with many of the villains, despite often looking and sounding goofy, being vicious killers and the whole thing felt a little jarring. Things also feel quite quick moving and throwaway, jumoing from one crazy situation to the next - all of which are unrelated so there's no 'big plot' here and nothing really to drive the story forward. I do like being able to choose your powers and the different ways it enables the story to play out, and I'm a huge fan of the comic style art.. of course the amazing Bolland cover (I think the only cover that has not been changed for the reprints?).

Although not the beloved classic I hoped it was going to in all honesty be, I have another appointment with FEAR in my future, I think.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 31 August, 2022, 12:57:49 PM
Despite my general aversion to the sci-fi books, I always intended to give F.E.A.R a punt at some point.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 August, 2022, 02:35:13 PM
I'm honestly unable to say if it's worth a go or not, given I have a heavy dose of nostalgia for it. I suspect the lack of overall plot and narrow path to success is detrimental, so I reckon it depends how much you enjoy the Superhero-y setting really.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 August, 2022, 04:46:07 PM
Also, now that I'm mapping it out, something to avoid is trying to do do much.

For example, in the Super Strength path, part of the clue is held by The Mummy. To confront him though, you need to ignore the murders committed by the Ringmaster. I think this also negates stopping the Serpent, which means you can't get the clue to stop the president being assassinated, unless it's viable to carry over clues from one playthrough to the next (I doubt it is)
It's simply not the case where you can solve everything, which is a bit against the heroism concept.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 31 August, 2022, 08:03:19 PM
Appointment with FEAR can be tough but has some fun elements. The superhero spin is quite novel for FF of course and I quite enjoy the way you have to try and not infuriate your work boss, so there is a sense of trying to maintain your secret identity as well as investigating everything else. Some of the character names that are clearing err... lets say homages to well known Marvel and DC characters are kind of fun too, while also being a bit rubbish! It's definitely a book where it's hard to get a sense of what the 'correct' path to take is though. Choosing between which crimes to pursue etc often feels wrong. As is par for the course, I have never completed it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 September, 2022, 09:41:55 AM
Two days till Fighting Fantasy Fest!

This is probably the geekiest thing I will ever attend. Hoping to pick up some missing titles from my collection, and I'm aiming to pick up the two new books - I've decided against taking a load of stuff to get signed, but I will bring my ancient copy of Out of the Pit along..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 01 September, 2022, 04:20:24 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 01 September, 2022, 09:41:55 AM
Two days till Fighting Fantasy Fest!

This is probably the geekiest thing I will ever attend. Hoping to pick up some missing titles from my collection, and I'm aiming to pick up the two new books - I've decided against taking a load of stuff to get signed, but I will bring my ancient copy of Out of the Pit along..

Wowsers, have a great time Boots! Look forward to hearing about it. And thanks again for posting me those three spares you had, you generous person you.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 September, 2022, 10:31:52 AM
Cheers dude! Your parcel is due today btw.

FFF was cool. Some really interesting panel discussions from the various authors and artists in attendance: I think it's all on Youtube for anyone interested*. Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone did seperate talks: Ian Livingstone confirmed he had pushed for a return to old school artwork going forward. Steve Jackson revealed he has been living with Parkinsons hence his low profile for a while, but he was very enthusiastic about his new book.

I had my 1985 copy of Out of the Pit signed by Steve and Ian, plus Alan Langford and Duncan Smith, and I got my ancient, beloved copies of Forest of Doom and Appointment with FEAR signed also. Poor old Steve and Ian were signing up to five items each and I think would have easily signed 1,000 - 1,500 items: they looked exhausted and in no mood to really chat but I had a lovely chat to Duncan Smith about FF art, and what he'd been doing since. He had some artwork with him and I picked up an original piece from  Fighting Fantasy (the introductory rpg book). I didn't stay for the auction or the film at the end as we had to get back to Worcestershire.

I have the two new books - Steve Jackson's sold out - and the artwork in each is awesome. Tazio Bettin's looked incredible on the big screen. I've had a go at Shadow of the Giants and met my end in classic Livingstone fashion: failed to have a crucial item and couldn't open a door resulting in game over. Enjoyed it so far, it's quite cheerful, still lethal, with plenty of callbacks to earlier books, especially Warlock.

Atmosphere was nice, only downside was a serious lack of secondhand FF books - I was hoping to pick up a couple of Puffins but no joy. The crowd was, as you'd expect, heavily weighted towards men in their 40s but nice to see a few children there, excited to meet authors and the like.

* They're not, it was a livestream. Can summarise interesting bits if anyones interested.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 05 September, 2022, 10:46:07 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 05 September, 2022, 10:31:52 AM
I've had a go at Shadow of the Giants and met my end in classic Livingstone fashion: failed to have a crucial item and couldn't open a door resulting in game over.

But of course!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 05 September, 2022, 03:01:49 PM
That sounds great! My copy of Jackson's new book arrives tomorrow, so I'll be getting straight on that.

QuoteCan summarise interesting bits if anyones interested.

Yes please!

Way of the Tiger 5: WARBRINGER!

Mr Boots has already given a very detailed and comprehensive description of this book on page 26 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.375) of this thread (which I didn't read until I finished the book, to avoid spoilers), so I'll just give an overview of my own experience and impressions.

We must have different editions, because Boots mentions that the rules at the start of his book say that his endurance, inner force and shuriken are restored to their initial values. I have the Knight Books first edition, and unlike the previous books the rules are omitted! At first I tried to play on with the same scores and equipment I carried over from the last book, but this made it literally impossible to complete the book as I kept getting killed by the poisonous spiders (you need to use several shuriken to get past them). So since the text said that several days had passed before I left Irsmuncast again, I unilaterally decided that it would be legitimate to replenish my missing shuriken -- I'm glad to see that this is what I was supposed to do!

Incidentally, there appears to be another error in this edition -- it uses the same map from the last book, and this map is completely useless! A big chunk of this book consists of choosing which of five possible cities you will visit to recruit allies for the coming battle, and then travelling to them. The choice is influenced in part by how far away they are. Only one of these cities appears on my map, which leads me to suspect that there was supposed to be a new map, or at the very least the map that was used for book 3. I wonder if this has anything to do with why the authors fell out with the publishers, with the result that book 6 was the last?

This edition also had some errors, and came with a last-minute Errata card:

(https://imgur.com/a/2NygJGP)

(The preview function won't show me this image, so in case it didn't work the link is https://imgur.com/a/2NygJGP )

Anyway. This book carries on from the last book's cliffhanger ending, with my city occupied by an army of orcs and dark elves and no idea whether anyone has survived. This is a very dramatic and atmospheric bit of the book, and reminds me of the "what the hell is happening?" feel of the opening paragraphs of FF's Beneath Nightmare Castle. For some reason the book asks me if I want to put an emerald (collected in the last book) in my empty eye socket (I lost an eye in the last book), which doesn't seem to be a very obvious thing to do but it's a gamebook so naturally I decide that yes, I do want to try that very implausible solution, and it gives me spectral vision. (This comes in very handy in a later encounter with a supernatural beastie which is otherwise not survivable.)

I then have to fight a troll, and the fight reduces my already depleted endurance to 3! But then I manage to find some friendly faces, including Greystaff the wizard from the last book who magically heals me and restores my endurance to 20! I lead the surviving defending forces to victory and kill the enemy general in single combat. (There is a much more exciting way to do this bit than the way I did it. If you have one of the special skills which I didn't have, and if you find a magic shape-shifter potion which I didn't manage to find, you can literally transform into a fucking dragon and attack her! She then magically transforms herself into a giant vulture-type monster, and you fight an aerial duel in the sky with both your armies watching! It's a really cool bit of the book, and it's a real shame that it's literally impossible to get to if you didn't start the book with the necessary special skill -- but well worth reading through anyway.)

The enemy forces abandon the city and I have saved the day! My elite samurai bodyguards decide to go home. I then receive word that Honoric, my archenemy from books 1 and 3, is marching his own army to take Irsmuncast! The consensus is that we don't have enough troops to stop him, so I must go to another city to form an alliance and build a bigger army. My five advisors suggest five different cities, and the book warns me that the choice I must now make is of vital importance so I absolutely must not fuck this up. So I spend a good deal of time reading and re-reading all the information the book offers me about the five cities and the people who live there, pondering all the pros and cons, and finally make a reasoned and considered decision. I follow Solstice's advice, which leads immediately to an instant death paragraph.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 17 July, 2022, 04:02:28 PM
Solstice really sucks.

He certainly does!

My second choice is to follow Gwyneth's advice, which I suppose I should have done in the first place since she is almost always right. She turns out to be right this time too. I travel to Serakub, getting killed three times by the spiders but I only count two of those since the first time I was playing without all the new shuriken I was supposed to start with. My new eye saves my life here too, in what turns out to be a very challenging fight with some powerful monster that can inflict massive damage and I can't block its attacks. There aren't actually many fights in this book, as it is mostly about making the right choices as a king, diplomat and general, but this fight is, frankly, quite enough! Somehow I manage to win anyway.

It takes me two goes to persuade the leaders of Serakub to commit their troops to my cause. I return to Irsmuncast, where I meet my friend Glaivas from books 1 and 3, who brings reinforcements of his own, and also the Paladin who helped me in book 3. I then have a strategy meeting with my war council, where I am presented with three choices: stay in the city and await a siege, ride out and attack the enemy's smaller army, or attack the enemy's larger army. My confidence in my own judgement is rather low as a result of following Solstice's advice earlier, but this time I make the right choice (surprisingly, this time Gwyneth's advice is way, way off) and I wipe out the smaller force of 600 with ease. At a second strategy meeting, Gwyneth gives me exactly the same advice again, and I recognise that it even leads to the same paragraph number as last time, so this looks like a trap and I dismiss that option out of hand (after finishing the book I looked back and found that it leads to instant death!). But instead I choose another path that leads to instant death, when one of my generals betrays me and joins the other side! My second choice proves to be the right one, and my merry band of warriors sets out to confront Honoric's massive army.

Leaving my army to make camp at the site of the coming battle, I scout ahead and infiltrate the enemy camp. I get killed, but on the second try I learn essential information and escape back to my camp.

The next morning, I awake on the day of the battle, and there is a cool map of the battlefield. At this point I learn whether I made the right choice about which city to recruit to my cause, and fortunately Serakub turns out to have been the best choice. (One of the other choices leads to instant death here, when they betray you; another choice is still capable of leading to victory but results in Honoric starting the battle with an extra 2,000 men, and the other choices led to instant death immediately after making them.)

I am given three choices about how to deploy my troops around the battlefield, and I follow Gwyneth's advice. I am then taken to another map which shows my army and the enemy army in their respective positions around the battlefield. If I had chosen different allies, I would have been given three other options, and so the book has six different maps of the battlefield with the different armies in their different positions. Clearly the authors have put an absolutely immense amount of thought and planning into this section of the book, and it's simply unique (as far as I know). I haven't yet mapped it all out to see how much difference the various options make to the outcome and difficulty, but my first impression is that it is all very impressive.

When the battle is just about to begin, Honoric challenges me to single combat, in a scene which reminds me of the Battle of the Bastards in Game of Thrones. Since so much of the gamebook has gone into setting up this battle, I assume that the proposed duel is just a trap laid by the authors, since they could not possibly have intended that the battle won't go ahead after all, so I decline, with the result that my troops are demoralised and falter at a critical point, losing the battle.

I go back to Honoric's challenge and this time I accept. He's a difficult opponent, and I'm starting with 6 endurance points, which is simply not enough. So I decide that this must be another error in the book, because since returning from Serakub I have spend several days in Irsmuncast before setting off to the battlefield, and Greystaff the wizard should surely have healed me again like last time? So I decide it's only logical to start this fight with 20 endurance, and in this way I survive the fight. When Honoric's officers see that he is losing, they interrupt the fight and rescue him. I flee back to my lines, but my soldiers are invigorated by my moral victory and this time during the battle they manage to hold the line.

There are a number of tactical choices to make during the battle, and at one point I find myself in single combat with some magic dude who I previously encountered in book 3, but eventually I win the battle without being killed again. As Honoric retreats, he conjures up a gigantic super-sized alter ego of himself, which Barrington Boots wisely avoided fighting, but not having read that yet I decide to engage it myself (having learned my lesson from declining single combat with him earlier). That turns out to be a mistake. I still win the battle and reach paragraph 420, completing the book -- but I miss out on the opportunity to kill Honoric, and he flees the field, living to fight another day (although not for a few years yet I am reassuringly told). So presumably he comes back in book 6.

I enjoyed this book very much. It killed me seven times. It didn't end on a cliffhanger, so I might just stop the series here, as I don't much like the idea of it either ending on a cliffhanger (Inferno! or being finished off by another author (Redeemer!). But I don't have to decide yet, as Secrets of Salamonis is next!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 September, 2022, 03:36:57 PM
Such a good writeup dude!

My edition is Knight Books 4th printing so looks like it's a bit more forgiving that yours....

That bit with the spiders ranks up there with the fight at the end of Usurper! as the hardest bit in the entire series. At one point I thought it was legitimately game over for me because I didn't have the poisons skill - absolutely horrible. I had no idea about the transforming into a dragon bit, that sounds fucking amazing! I love the bit where you jam the orb into your eyesocket for literally no reason and it gives you magic powers.

I think this and Avenger are my favourite of the series and had loads of fun playing this book. I think pausing the series here would be a legitimate decision, as Inferno is pretty bad, but Redeemer does do a good job of wrapping up dangling plot threads and give some closure with regards characters like Honoric, Foxglove & Lackland, as well as Cassandra and her mates.

Incidentally in Redeemer! It's also possible to kill Solstice. Although it's not helpful in any way (quite the opposite) it's satisfying because he is soooo rubbish.

Looking forward to hearing what Salamonis is like!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 05 September, 2022, 06:16:02 PM
So I have just looked at You Are the Hero, Jonathan Green's 2014 book about the Fighting Fantasy franchise, and on page 106 there is a brief interview with the authors of Way of the Tiger in which they explain why and how the series ended.

"Our publishers Hodder and Stoughton originally had signed for seven books but they cancelled the last in a fit of pique, which is why Inferno! ends so unsatisfactorily -- they re-wrote the end themselves to kill the series. The story here is that the then CEO of Hodder, Eddie Bell, left to become CEO of Harper Collins ... He took us with him so that we could write the DuelMaster series for Harper Collins and Hodder revoked the contract for Book #7 in revenge. They said it was for commercial reasons, but the series was still successful and reprinting."

What fuckers!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 September, 2022, 02:15:06 PM
Bastard Hodder & Stoughton!
I managed to get hold of a Knight version of Inferno and when compared to the new revised edition you can see there's issues there. At one point you have to roll against Tyutchev defense against 'Way of the Tiger' which implies author fatigue or running out of steam to me, compared to how rich in detail the previous books are... in the new edition the text was slightly reworked so you deliver a specific punch of kick and he is defending against that.

Is You Are The Hero worth getting btw? It's out of print I think, but back on kickstarter this year, updated for the 40th anniversary.

From FF-Fest talks - a lot of it was anecdotes and chat but some interesting bits I remember:

Peter Darvill-Evans said he deliberately made Nightmare Castle as horrible and gruesome as possible.  The start, with the reader chained up in the dungeon, was backlash because he was told by the editors his original opening was too boring.

Keith Phillips, Peter Darvill-Evans and Paul Mason said if they could make a change to their books, they'd remove the 'one true path' aspect and incorporate several paths to the finish, and they all said their books were too hard in retrospect. Keith Phillips and Peter Darvill-Evans said they would jump at a chance to do another, but Paul Mason said he wouldn't because he felt an author should retain copyright of his own work (which was interesting).

Rhianna Pratchett wasn't allowed to use the word 'sandwich' in her book.

Ian Livingstone said there'd been backlash against the scholastic artwork: he heavily implied he didn't like it either, and he himself had pushed for a return to the older style. He has the original cover artwork for all his FF books on his wall, but couldn't with the new one because it's digital art.

He also said 'RIP Mungo' at one point so I'm glad everyone still feels the sting of poor Mungo's bitter demise.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 September, 2022, 07:37:31 PM
Thanks for the summary!

Quote...but Paul Mason said he wouldn't because he felt an author should retain copyright of his own work

I thought they did. Maybe Scholastic Books does things differently, but every FF book I've seen gives the writers and artists copyright over their own work.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 06 September, 2022, 08:05:43 PM
Quote from: Richard on 06 September, 2022, 07:37:31 PM
Thanks for the summary!

Quote...but Paul Mason said he wouldn't because he felt an author should retain copyright of his own work

I thought they did. Maybe Scholastic Books does things differently, but every FF book I've seen gives the writers and artists copyright over their own work.

Yes... I thought that was why both Wizard series, and the Scholastic reprints, focussed mainly on Steve and Ian's work.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 September, 2022, 08:22:25 PM
I've only got Crystal of Storms handy, but it says all the text and art is copyright Ian and Steve despite not being written by them.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 September, 2022, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: Richard on 05 September, 2022, 06:16:02 PM
So I have just looked at You Are the Hero, Jonathan Green's 2014 book about the Fighting Fantasy franchise, and on page 106 there is a brief interview with the authors of Way of the Tiger in which they explain why and how the series ended.

"Our publishers Hodder and Stoughton originally had signed for seven books but they cancelled the last in a fit of pique, which is why Inferno! ends so unsatisfactorily -- they re-wrote the end themselves to kill the series. The story here is that the then CEO of Hodder, Eddie Bell, left to become CEO of Harper Collins ... He took us with him so that we could write the DuelMaster series for Harper Collins and Hodder revoked the contract for Book #7 in revenge. They said it was for commercial reasons, but the series was still successful and reprinting."

What fuckers!

That is really interesting. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 September, 2022, 12:47:47 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 September, 2022, 08:22:25 PM
I've only got Crystal of Storms handy, but it says all the text and art is copyright Ian and Steve despite not being written by them.
Well that would explain it, and it does seem unfair.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 September, 2022, 08:57:05 AM
I have the had a look at Night of The Necromancer and Bloodbones, both published by Wizard, and both of them are text copyright Steve and Ian as well although in those the art copyright is to the respective artists. I guess this was something that came in after the Puffins and yeah, might explain why there's not been many new authors going forward..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 September, 2022, 01:47:35 PM
QuoteIs You Are The Hero worth getting btw?

It's alright. There is plenty of info, a lot of which I didn't already know, and lots of illustrations including a wide selection of maps from the books. (That was handy for me as one of my gamebooks was missing its map.) There's a brief description of every single FF book, which prompted me to buy a couple.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 September, 2022, 08:09:29 PM
Secrets of Salamonis

by Steve Jackson "with Jonathan Green" and Tazio Bettin


As this is a brand new book, I will avoid spoilers and just give my first impressions rather than a playthrough.

First of all, the art is glorious! Our own Tazio Bettin provides some beautiful and detailed black and white line art, and in particular there is a fantastic image of a unicorn opposite paragraph 321. He also did a colour front cover illustration (although it's a bit darker than the version on his website). Frankly this book is worth getting for the art alone! It's a real return to form for the FF franchise after the childish art of the previous Scholastic editions.

There is nice shiny gold leaf on the front cover.

Steve Jackson is credited on the cover as the sole writer, but on the title page it adds in a smaller font "with Jonathan Green." It's not clear how much each author contributed, but I don't really mind as they have both authored some of my favourite FF books.

The rules are mostly your standard FF rules, but with some modifications. Firstly, there is a list of seven special skills which you can acquire as the adventure unfolds. Secondly, you have to keep track of which day of the week it is, as this can affect what happens from time to time. Thirdly, you don't role dice for your stats but they are assigned to you, and they are 6 skill, 12 stamina, and 6 luck. The reason for this is not explained in the rules, but becomes apparent fairly early on once the adventure begins -- your character begins the book as a child! (This is an idea last used in The Crimson Tide in 1992.)

Not a very young child this time, rather a teenager who has just left home and set off to the big city to begin a career as a young adventurer. You have to gain experience and learn new skills before you can join the Adventurers' Guild, and this requires money, of which you have none, having been robbed on the way to Salamonis. So you have to start by finding gainful employment, legal or illegal. Once you have earned a few coins, you can then begin to meet people who can teach you the tricks of the trade: armed combat, unarmed combat, magic spells, fraud and thievery!

Fourthly, there is a new stat called "Amonour" (a word first used in Jackson's excellent novel The Trolltooth Wars), which is basically a measure of your fame, experience and honour. You gain these points for gaining experience or for doing the right thing, and lose them for being a dick. There later comes a point in the adventure when the number of Amonour points you have picked up determines how much you may increase your initial skill, stamina and luck by. You get to choose which stats to assign your new points to. (I had six, and I added them all to my skill score.)

After that, you then begin going on proper quests. Citizens of Salamonis go to the Adventurers' Guild to ask for assistance for one thing or another, and you can choose which quests to go on, for gold. Once you come back from your first quest, you can then go to the market and buy useful stuff, including provisions (but you also have some encounters with the tax-collector).

This is the first drawback of the book, as until you get to that point there aren't many opportunities to restore lost stamina. I lost 2 stamina points -- one sixth of my stamina -- because I tripped on a loose cobblestone, and I couldn't get them back until after I had my first fight, with a creature with a skill of 8. That was my first death! But after surviving my first real quest, I was able to buy plenty of food and also a potion of strength, so I should be alright now.

I still have several interesting-sounding quests to go on. It's not yet clear what the main story of this book is going to be (I assume there will be more to it than just learning to be a proper adventurer), but there is one hint: there is one quest I chose to go on which the Guildmaster wouldn't let me do because I didn't yet have enough Amonour, so perhaps this will turn out to be the big one? There are 480 paragraphs, so there should be plenty left for me to do anyway.

There are several references to places and characters from other books, including [spoiler]Zharaddan Marr and an appearance by Thugruff from The Trolltooth Wars and Creature of Havoc[/spoiler].

I've throughly enjoyed it so far. It's only about £7 on Amazon, so worth a look!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 07 September, 2022, 08:38:17 PM
Quote from: Richard on 07 September, 2022, 08:09:29 PM
Secrets of Salamonis

by Steve Jackson "with Jonathan Green" and Tazio Bettin


I'm so excited about this one (far more so than Shadow of the Giants - sorry Ian!) Those three names on the cover are like a guarantee of quality.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 September, 2022, 10:30:10 AM
Quote from: Richard on 07 September, 2022, 08:09:29 PM
Steve Jackson is credited on the cover as the sole writer, but on the title page it adds in a smaller font "with Jonathan Green." It's not clear how much each author contributed, but I don't really mind as they have both authored some of my favourite FF books.

They discussed this at FFF: both said the other did the lions share, but I believe the bulk of the concepts and ideas were from Steve and Jonathan assisted with the structure. It sounds like the book was written quite fast as they mentioned getting together at the start of the year to write it.
I think Steve Jackson would like to do another. He mentioned he liked different settings and always wanted to do a pirate book, until Bloodbones hit that spot.

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 07 September, 2022, 08:38:17 PM
I'm so excited about this one (far more so than Shadow of the Giants - sorry Ian!) Those three names on the cover are like a guarantee of quality.

Definitely feel the same! Ian's output has not been as strong over the years has it?
Shadow of the Giants seems quite forgiving for IL so far although I've still died lots.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: wedgeski on 08 September, 2022, 10:34:35 AM
Quote from: Richard on 07 September, 2022, 08:09:29 PM
I've throughly enjoyed it so far. It's only about £7 on Amazon, so worth a look!
Totally ordered.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 September, 2022, 11:09:25 AM
Going to save it as a treat for Christmas, I think!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 12 September, 2022, 10:50:26 AM
Shadow of the Giants

As per Richards Salamonis post, no playthrough as it's brand new.

I've finished this now. I enjoyed it a lot - the writing and tone is atmospheric and fairly lighthearted without being jovial or silly. The plot / villain is a great concept, although the final battle is somewhat anticlimatic, partly because the bulk of the book is a wander through a very characteful town with lots of interesting NPCs and dialogue. There's a good chunk of IL nostalgia in play - you go to Firetop Mountain, the town of Hamelin is quite a City of Thieves-esque, there's bucketloads of useless items you can buy or pick up, you get two companions (one of whom does a classic Mungo in short order) and several other FF books are called back to.

For an IL book the battles are not too difficult, with SK10 being the toughest opponent. There are however a lot of skill and luck checks and heavy penalties available to both. The books conclusion hinges on first a 50/50 choice and then a successful luck check, which I failed twice in a row so Potion of Luck is a must.

It feels a bit on the short side and reasonably linear: it only took me a couple of plays to work out what I needed and where, although finding one crucial item was tricky as getting it required doing something quite out of character for an FF book. You get 10 provisions, which is way too many, although on my first playthrough I lost them all in a river early on. I won't say it's easy, but it wasn't a difficult book.

The art is fantastic throughout, nice plot and it feels balanced - I think had this been released 35 years ago we'd regard it fondly. Definitely the best book from Ian in a while. I'll be tackling Salamonis next!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 13 September, 2022, 11:44:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5slwV32.jpeg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 September, 2022, 01:48:44 PM
Sorcery! – The Seven Serpents

And we're back, with the latest part of my Sorcery playthrough! As always, spoilers follow.
Shamutanti Hills (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1085767;topicseen#msg1085767)
Kharé part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1086825;topicseen#msg1086825)
Kharé part II (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1088379;topicseen#msg1088379)

The Playthrough – Lower Ishtara
The Baklands. A once-prosperous land of mystics and sorcerors laid waste by magic a hundred years ago. I'll be the first Analander ever to set foot here – whether I'll also be the first to cross it remains to be seen. But cross it I must to have any chance of recovering the Crown of Kings from the Archmage of Mampang Fortress.

After the cramped confines of Kharé, the blighted wastes of the Baklands seem impossibly vast and empty. A legion of eyes seem to crawl across me as I march through the unending waste, without cover of any sort – like all the world's spiders erupting beneath my clothes from ten thousand hidden eggs. How can my mission possibly remain a secret, if I have to cross leagues of this kind of country? I never thought I'd pine for the fetid and urine-soaked alleyways of the Cityport of Traps, but... Kharé almost feels like home. At least it had people. What does this hellscape have...?

(https://i.imgur.com/uFg1oym.jpg?1)

Nighthawks, that's what. Five of the bastards, dive-bombing me from the skies, raking with their talons. I've got nowhere to hide, nowhere to run for, no help to call on. This could get sticky... I'm saved by the unexpected intervention of an invisible(!) Goldcrest Eagle, emissary from the King of Analand. Once the nighthawks have been seen off, the eagle delivers a message; my mission is discovered by the Seven Serpents, most trusted servants of the Archmage, hurrying through the Baklands even now to snitch on me; and I should seek out Shadrack the hermit for help.

To cut to the chase, I eventually find Shadrack at his home in Fishtail Rock after tramping the bleak Baklands for a bit; and he seems to exist in a little pocket out of time. Once he appears the barren ground is full of rich, verdant grass; there are trees and bushes waving in the breeze, and even the rock formations are bigger and less eroded than they were just moments ago. He fills me in on the Serpents; they were created from the heads of a hydra fought and killed by the Archmage long ago; but, hating to see such awesome power depart from the world, he breathed life back into the seven skulls, giving each an elemental affinity – from this derives their incredible power, but also a unique weakness. If I can find out what these are, I might just have a chance to defeat them...

(https://i.imgur.com/sPWfxH4.jpg?1)

This time-displaced area of the Baklands is teeming with the mystics that used to live here before the blight. Besides Shadrack, I meet a young mystic called Elthera, and we play my first game of swindlestones since the gaming halls of Vlada, back in Kharé. Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh... The quiet roll and click of the dice, the heady anticipation of the reveal, the endorphin rush of a successful bluff... It feels like coming home. (Look, I'm ready to admit that I may have a problem, but – cold turkey isn't for me. So maybe I can use my journey across the Baklands to ease gradually back on how much I play, instead). Up in the hills is a sorceress called Bria who teaches me about counterspells, and a spell called SSS, that will allow me to wring secrets from the Seven Serpents against their will.

(https://i.imgur.com/nyJKIaq.jpg?1)

Heading north, I return to a single, strange tower. I passed by when looking for Shadrack, but there was no obvious way up the sheer stone walls. Now, however, ivy climbs all over it, and it's a simple matter to hoist my way up. At the summit is a massive brass – well, it looks like a telescope – but whatever part of the landscape I train it on seems to be sent back in time by the gentle blue light. [How this mechanic worked in the original book, I can't begin to guess, but sweeping the tower across the map and watching things change is great fun.] Desert becomes grassland, dustbowl becomes forest... and some tumbled ruins standing above an uncrossable gully become a stone bridge across a roaring river. So with the path now opened before me, I climb back down from the tower, and cross into...

Upper Ishtara
My first encounter here is a caravan train of Black Elves, circled defensively for the coming night. They're guardedly hospitable, once I confirm I have gold to spend, and let me wander around their camp. I sit down at the campfire to cook some raw fish that I found, before it starts to go bad, and get talking to a woman of indeterminate age. I do my best to answer her many questions while telling her as little as possible of my real intentions. I play some swindlestones with another elf (Aaaaaahhhhh...), letting him win the last game of three when I sense the mood getting a little ugly. With this many swords at his back, I can't afford for him to think I was hustling him. He mentions their merchant, Ooloh, so my next stop is his caravan. Ooloh is more than happy to greet me – trade can't be too good out here. His caravan is a veritable Aladdin's cave of treasures, but I'm doing quite well in terms of rations and arms, so it's mainly magical items that I'm interested in. I pay 16 gold for a Crystal Orb, (so that I can cast FAR, and see into the future), and the same again for a Brass Pendant. This little beauty allows me to cast NAP, a sleeping spell, and this is precisely what I do... on Ooloh.

(https://i.imgur.com/b1UtyLi.jpg?1)

Whether karmic justice or Courga's displeasure, everything now goes spectacularly wrong. Knowing I don't have long I snatch a few things off the shelves – a Hewing Axe and a bag of vittles, as it turns out. One of Ooloh's guards sticks his head into the caravan at exactly the wrong moment, just as I'm stuffing the vittles in my backpack. 'Did you pay for that?' he barks, which is, after all, a fair enough question. I try to brazen it out. 'Of course.' Surprisingly, he seems convinced, but that's when he realises Ooloh is snoring contentedly. Something is clearly not right here, and he starts to come into the caravan as I mention Ooloh complaining of plague symptoms just before he fell asleep. The guard pales, and backs out again. I've pushed my luck far enough here, so I make my exit. I seem to have gotten away with it when three figures accost me on the edge of the campsite – it's the woman I was talking to by the fire, with two other elves at her back. I knew I didn't like the strange look in her eyes when she was asking me exactly how much gold I had...

(https://i.imgur.com/TZFtCXT.jpg?1)

One of her companions comes at me, fists swinging, and there's no time to draw my sword – I have to meet him the same way. By the time he's been knocked on his back, the woman's coming at me with blade in hand. I take care of her, too – although I'm a pint or two of blood lighter for it! Thank Courga, the last of the Three Stooges decides better of it, and runs. A hasty search of the bodies bags me 10 gold pieces and a new cloth skullcap – but it's now too late to get away! Dozens of black elves surround me, and drag me back to the caravans. I don't know if it's for tricking Ooloh or killing their own, but at the command of their chieftan they begin to ready a mighty human-sized wooden cross, fitted with leather straps – this cannot be good. A desperate cast of ZIP teleports me sideways through space, behind one of the caravans, and while the elves panic, I flee out into the desert. Phew!

Trudging east toward the mountains, I share a hunk of black bread with a dwarf by the unlikely name of Mist, an emigree from Dwarftown in Kharé. He seems to think there's something ominous and unfriendly up in the hills behind him. A serpent...? Then I cross paths with an enchantress called Dintainta, apparently known as 'The Sham'. Hang on just a minute...! The name rings a bell – it's one I was told to seek out by the ghost of Shinva, Fifth Noble of Kharé, in his riddle about a Sleepless Ram (which meant exactly nothing to me at the time). Dintainta explains that the Ram is one of the Archmage's servants, and tells me how best to defeat it. I'm not ungrateful, but Mampang Fortress is still some way off – I'm much more interested in her tips to defeat the Moon and Fire Serpents... Onwards, up into the Baddu-Bak Ridge, and I meet some absolute joker who gets his larks pretending to be a Death Wraith and carving up innocent travellers. He says he learnt the illusion spell from a dying sorceress who headed on into the Forest of Snatta, the other side of the Ridge. I force him to give me a brass chakram and a vial of yellow powder before sending him on his way with a boot heel up his arse. (This supposedly barren land isn't half full of people...!)

(https://i.imgur.com/yEz8ZJA.jpg?2)

Suddenly the stars are snuffed out. A hissing sound begins to echo all around the rocks, and a second, massive moon rises in the sky. Then it uncoils itself, and the Moon Serpent is revealed! Wide wings seem to stretch from horizon to horizon, its eyes two shimmering yellow orbs full of malice. I use my new SSS spell to wring some secrets from it; it reluctantly confirms that the Water Serpent is waiting for me at Lake Ilkala, and suggests I find Fenestra the Sorceress – before adding that it hopes she dies before I do. No more talk; I can feel the serpent spell about to fail, so I launch a fireball. Scales and feathers fall everywhere, and the monster writhes and shrieks. Then I close with my sword, and send it to the Great Vivarium in the sky.

One down, six to go.

The Verdict
More great stuff. I was wondering how on earth a whole adventure was going to be wrung out of a desolate and empty wilderness; it all 'clicks' together with the Past Light tower. Such a great mechanic – I love how time is used in this game.

The Seven Serpents are a great idea for an enemy – can't wait to cross swords with them!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 September, 2022, 02:12:44 PM
Needless to say, that was just part 1!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 15 September, 2022, 05:43:32 PM
What a great write-up! Looking forward to the rest of it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 September, 2022, 09:39:50 AM
Fantastic write-up, and very much appreciating you posting some of the art too! Really enjoyed this.

Also, re. BSC's Lone Wolf post - I've been thinking about getting the first couple of these for the Gary Chalk art alone, but I still have so many FF books to go through first...

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 16 September, 2022, 09:48:54 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 16 September, 2022, 09:39:50 AM
Fantastic write-up, and very much appreciating you posting some of the art too! Really enjoyed this.

Partly why it's been so long since the last installment - I've been having a bit of a mare with Imgur recently. But I think it's worth it, if only to break up my big walls of text!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 September, 2022, 10:16:57 AM
Defintely worth it!

This reminds me that I uploaded this to Imgur to share here:

(https://i.imgur.com/TOhFhLT.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 16 September, 2022, 10:37:22 AM
That looks brilliant!

Which book is that from?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 September, 2022, 10:44:35 AM
Thanks! It's from 'Fighting Fantasy - The Introductory Roleplaying Game'.
It also appeared in Out of the Pit.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 16 September, 2022, 12:04:21 PM
Cor! The repro's actually not bad at all, is it?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 17 September, 2022, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 16 September, 2022, 10:44:35 AM
Thanks! It's from 'Fighting Fantasy - The Introductory Roleplaying Game'.
It also appeared in Out of the Pit.

Brilliant!  I loved that book - my brother got it, and it was my introduction to FF.  Never actually played it properly, which was with a team and a dungeon master.

So, was that the first Fighting Fantasy book ever published, does anyone know?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 September, 2022, 01:12:32 AM
No, it was published in 1984. Warlock etc was in 1982.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 September, 2022, 03:55:37 PM
My next gamebook in the series which I should play next is FF18: Rebel Planet. But I only played it last year, or possibly even early this year, so I don't much feel like doing it again so soon. However I'm going to briefly mention it here because it's quite good.

You visit four different planets, each planet having its own distinctive character. Each one is harder than the last, and the last two have a "one true path" which is a bit annoying and my only criticism of the book. But as that is a common feature with many gamebooks, don't let that put you off!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 19 September, 2022, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: Richard on 18 September, 2022, 01:12:32 AM
No, it was published in 1984. Warlock etc was in 1982.

Ah, ok, thanks - was never sure about that.  I'd assumed the fact that it was just called 'Fighting Fantasy' meant it was the first one.  The next of its (multi-player) type was, I think, The Riddling Reaver, which I loved but again never actually played as it was meant to be played.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 19 September, 2022, 10:46:22 PM
Those books can still be fun to read even if you don't use them as intended!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 20 September, 2022, 10:26:23 AM
Sorcery! – The Seven Serpents II: The Forest of Snatta

Shamutanti Hills (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1085767;topicseen#msg1085767)
Kharé part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1086825;topicseen#msg1086825)
Kharé part II (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1088379;topicseen#msg1088379)
Seven Serpents part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1091977#msg1091977)

The Forest of Snatta
There used to be a titanic bridge here, leading out from the Baddu-Bak ridge across the Forest of Snatta, but it has long since crumbled to ruin. I have to make the long crawl (with occasional involuntary sliding) down the hillside. Once in the trees, it isn't too long before I meet a gaggle of the beasts that share the Forest's name. SNATTACATS are invisible while they have their eyes open, so that when one finally breaks from the pack that are tailing me and tries to make me into a new scratching post, it isn't too hard to bring down. The others wisely slink away, but I have a feeling they don't go too far. I'd better not hang around! Pressing on through the forest, I soon come to a mighty pillar of worked stone – the remains of one of the ancient bridge spans.

(https://i.imgur.com/RT44S6y.jpg?3)

I decide to climb up, and take advantage of what must be incredible views for clues to my mission. I'm told I must leave my pack and weapons at the base of the pillar, which I can't say I'm too happy about, but I don't seem to have much choice. When I finally reach the upper limits, a voice calls softly to me.  Who should it be, but my old buddy cum deadly enemy Flanker the assassin! We engage in the by-now customary fruity will-they-won't they dialogue, and he even gives me the  possible weakness of the Water Serpent before he goes. When I climb down from the bridge – devastation! Somebody has stolen my Legendary Sword from the foot of the pillar. Thank Courga, they seem to have left everything else, but this is a mighty loss, and may well harm the greater mission...

I meet a wandering BEAR. He doesn't seem in the mood for any will-they-won't-they ursine banter, so I toss him a sandwich and have it away on my toes before he finishes. Then a small red snake crosses my path. It pauses to look at me, slithers away, then stops and looks back – for all the world like a dog, trying to lead me somewhere. I take out my (old, inferior) sword and follow carefully. The snake leads me through the undergrowth for a while, then disappears up into the boughs of a tree – whereupon the whole thing bursts into flame. The red snake has grown tenfold in size, and boasts fiery wings on its back – I've found (or rather, been found by) the Fire Serpent! A quick cast of SSS, and the Fire Serpent reluctantly warns me not to eat from the larder of Throg (whoever that is), and that the Time Serpent is waiting on an island in the middle of Lake Ilkala. So that's the Earth, Water and Time Serpents, all waiting for me at the Lake! Should make for a fun time when I get there...! Never mind them for now, though. Luckily, I know the Fire Serpent's weakness – I shimmy a little way up the tree and douse it with sand, just as it begins to breathe out a column of fire. His flame immediately goes out, and the sand seems to burn and burrow into the creature's hide like acid. It drops from the tree, writhing in pain, and I close in to finish it off.

(https://i.imgur.com/js6D7sB.jpg?1)

Two Serpents down, five to go.

The Klatta-Bak Steppes
After calling on Courga to save me from a patch of stranglebush that nearly put a premature end to the quest, I emerge from the Forest of Snatta onto the wilds of the Klatta-Bak Steppes – and arrive at a village of Klattamen. These are simple nomadic souls, with not much language or culture, but they're friendly enough – I certainly feel safer here than in the Black Elf caravan! That is, until a particularly large Klattaman picks me up from where I'm sat in front of the fire and flings me through the air! The other klattamen quickly form a ring, chanting excitedly. I cast SUS to gauge how much danger I'm in; a voice tells me this is the village champion. He doesn't bear me any ill-will, but is determined to fight me to prove his dominance. Alright then, let's get this over w– Perhaps it's my own overconfidence. Perhaps it's the loss of my beloved Legendary Sword. Either way, the lowly Klattaman quickly does what two of the mighty Seven Serpents couldn't, and smashes me down to a greasy spot on the floor.

(https://i.imgur.com/EXScFry.jpg?4)

The Klatta-Bak Steppes – Attempt II
Back to where I was, and this time I send the Klattaman yelping away to lick his wounds. Nobody seems much to mind that I bested their champion, and to show that there's no hard feelings for having killed me earlier, the village Shaman not only heals my wounds, but gives me +1 max Stamina! The Smith isn't too shabby either, crafting me a Longsword that goes some way to offsetting the loss of the Legendary Sword – and refusing payment, too! The more I get to know these guys, the more I like them – but it's time to be on my way.

I meet another of the Bakland's mystics; this chap is contemplating the world from the top of a twenty-foot pole. He invites me to join him. When I ask how, he tosses down a jewelled medallion. I'm able to use this to cast FAL, and float up to join him. We pass the time of day very pleasantly, when he's suddenly and abruptly murdered by a giant bird (!) I've still got his medallion, so that's another spell added to the repertoire, but... I'm not sure I like how I got it!

The weather changes abruptly as I walk on. The skies are clear everywhere but above me, where rain sleets down by the bucketload – I'm right in the eye of a very intense, very personal storm. It doesn't take long for the AIR SERPENT to reveal himself, gloating from the storm clouds above. I wipe some of the smugness from him by casting SSS, and getting a clue about a 'blood candle' for the quest ahead. But how can I harm a twisting, ethereal thing made of air itself? Luckily, I know its weakness – harm its body while it's in air form. And his body must somehow be bound to the serpent, because I don't even have to search for it – a large dessicated 'leaf' bounces past as if summoned by my own thoughts. Tearing the snakeskin to pieces destroys the Air Serpent completely, and the skies above the Steppes become clear and blue again. That was the easiest Serpent to vanquish so far; but at the most cost. The rain of the storm has ruined all my paper items (save the spellbook) and virtually all my rations, most of them carefully hoarded since Kharé. All I have left – of fourteen rations! – are the two dried fish I cooked with the Black Elves. Hungry times ahead!

Three Serpents down, four to go.

(https://i.imgur.com/8yRm06d.jpg?1)

A ruined temple comes into view. Hidden in an empty sepulchre beneath it I find a man chained to the wall with iron manacles. He claims to be Shalla, priest of Throff. Taking him at face value, I strike his chains through, and he clambers gleefully up into the sun. A comedy of errors now ensues as I try to leave the pit, because in his delirium Shalla is about to knock the trapdoor closed and trap me here! As I barge him desperately out of the way he falls into a stone column, and suddenly half the temple complex begins to collapse. Long story short, I cast YOB to summon a giant to free me from the rubble, but my health is not what it was! Still coughing up brickdust, I stumble to the old well in hopes of a drink, but it's long since dried up. SUS tells me that it might be worth my while investigating, though... With the help of the priests's medallion, I end up with a generous fistful of uncut gemstones. Not much I can do with them myself, but perhaps I can find someone to cut or assay them on my travels. My parting gift from Shalla is the Yellow Plague – but thankfully, Courga deigns to cure me. This is the third or fourth time I've contracted the plague on my travels – it'd be lovely to think this was the last!

(https://i.imgur.com/bNsmyq3.jpg?4)

As I turn North again, back towards the forest, my ears are filled with a strange chanting. Seven cloaked and hooded figures – the 'Seven Spirits' – invite me to join them. Some sixth sense tells me to keep my distance (the number seven making me uncomfortable lately for some unfathomable reason!) but I engage them in guarded conversation. When they lower their cowls, my blood freezes in my veins – serpents! And yet they all have the same markings, even though some are pale and gnarled, while others look strong and vigorous. This is the same serpent, at different points in its life – the infamous Serpent of Time, and I am woefully outclassed. The sky overhead seems to become a lidded eye, cracking open. The wind exerts a force like a hundred invisible hands, and begins to drag me inexorably toward the mound where they wait. I throw my eyes up to the stars to craft a spell – any spell! – but impossibly there are no stars! There is nothing I can do. I've failed, and oblivion awaits...

...or not. The Time Serpent has been toying with me. This 'death' was just a little taste of what I can expect when we clash again later. Er... something to look forward to, then.

(https://i.imgur.com/MEZHd2A.jpg?1)

There's another Past Light tower, and a hungry WOLFHOUND lurking inside. As I enter on a lowly three stamina (thanks again, Time Serpent), he makes very short work of me. I'm forced to replay this fight many, many times! These towers seem to be powered by a blue crystal, set into the mechanism. Touching this one brings on an out-of-body experience – I'm suddenly hurtling a thousand feet into the sky, looking down on the whole of the Baklands. There's a blue glow above the Tower I just left, and another over the Tower back in Ishtara. Now that I've activated my second Past Light tower, it seems that I'm tapped into a fast-travel network; I can jump between Towers at will by touching the crystals! Again, how this would have worked in the original book I have no earthly idea! By jumping between Towers and swivelling the beacons about a bit (including a third Tower, in Upper Ishtara, that I now have access to) I can shine Past Light on the remains of the Bridge across the Forest, restoring the ancient structure completely! Finally I have a way onward to Lake Ilkala.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZDS4yGv.jpg?3)

A trio of wandering KLATTAMEN ambush me on the doorstep as I leave the Tower, and I do something I'm not very proud of. I could fairly easily scare them off, but the apparent leader has a Jewel of Gold around his neck that I really want – it will let me cast GOD, whereby characters will be compelled to help me however they can. Swallowing down a little guilt, I kill all three of the Klattamen for the sake of the jewel. May Courga forgive me, but the fate of all Analand (and maybe the world!) is at stake!

Back in the Forest of Snatta once more – but wait! The beacon of the Past Light tower has sent the forest back in time, and I'm now walking through the Vischlani Marshes that predated the forest. It's hard going – no wonder the people of Tinpani once built that titanic bridge across it. I bump into a gaggle of Marsh Goblins, in desperate flight from something they think is hunting them. There's some difficulty of translation, but I think that they seem to have crossed paths with the Time Serpent itself! No wonder they're afraid. They have something that they think it wants – this something proves to be a parchment, written in an unknown glyph language. They're happy to let me have it, and we go our separate ways; hopefully I can find someone to help me translate this. As if my thought has summoned him, I soon have a vision of the scholar Lorag, from back in Kharé. I study the message, and it's as though Lorag is looking at it through my eyes. He comes back with a translation – it's something to do with how to destroy the Serpent of Time. No wonder it wanted it back from the goblins...

(https://i.imgur.com/57CAxsD.jpg?3)

I accidentally find my Legendary sword (Hooray!), taken by an invisible kleptomaniac [no, literally!] and then venture into a home hidden beneath a hill. Within is Fenestra, the Elven Sorceress I was (reluctantly) told to find by the Moon Serpent. It seems the Water Serpent killed her father, so she has little love for them. If I needed proof of this, it turns out that the Sun Serpent has already been fought and imprisoned in her crystal orb...! I manage to persuade her to entrust the orb to me, with a promise I will release it only to kill it; and that I'll try and avenge her father by killing the Water Serpent too. So that's the Sun Serpent (quite literally) in the bag, and the Forest pretty much exhausted of encounters.

(https://i.imgur.com/C5OQ2TO.jpg?2)

I climb the restored bridge out of the forest/marsh. Exiting onto the mountain range, I finally put the Forest and the Steppes behind me. Lake Ilkala awaits, and the final three Serpents...

The Verdict
No swindlestones. Not even one round!

The fast travel mechanic of the Past Light towers really opens things out in this section. God only knows how this worked in the original book, but it's great fun realising you can zip between parts of the map fairly quickly without another long, footsore slog, as well as being able to nip between past and future at will.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 20 September, 2022, 06:07:44 PM
A great write-up again. That Time Serpent is really hard to beat!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 September, 2022, 11:12:38 PM
That's a tremendous writeup Jimbo! Loving reading your journey through this.

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 19 September, 2022, 10:10:31 PM
The next of its (multi-player) type was, I think, The Riddling Reaver, which I loved but again never actually played as it was meant to be played.

I ripped off big chunks of RR - and Fighting Fantasy - for D&D and MERP games that I ran back in those days, but I spent hours poring over the art: I was pretty excited to pick up that Mummy picture. They're good little adventures (RR especially has some great bits) but I don't think Fighting Fantasy as an RPG system was really any good - but I'd be interested to know if it worked as an introductory system and got people into D&D etc.

Quote from: Richard on 18 September, 2022, 03:55:37 PM
My next gamebook in the series which I should play next is FF18: Rebel Planet.

This is next on my list too, but I've been much distracted. I have finished Appointment with FEAR, which was very difficult, and also the final part of Freeway Warrior, but not written it up yet. I'm also playing Secrets of Salamonis which is superb - much better than SotG and I enjoyed that a lot.
I've never played Rebel Planet but I have heard it's one of the strongest of the sci-fi ones.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 September, 2022, 09:44:05 AM
Sorcery! – The Seven Serpents III: Lake Ilkala
...because I know how desperate my loyal audience of *checks notes* two must be for me to complete the adventure!

Shamutanti Hills (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1085767;topicseen#msg1085767)
Kharé part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1086825;topicseen#msg1086825)
Kharé part II (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1088379;topicseen#msg1088379)
Seven Serpents part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1091977#msg1091977)
Seven Serpents part II (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1092287#msg1092287)

Tinpani
Walking down out of the mountains, I'm immediately set upon by the Earth Serpent! Lava, avalanches, rockslides, earthquakes – it's an admittedly terrifying onslaught of attacks to dodge. Once I have, though, it's actually a fairly simple matter to cast my levitation spell on him. Contact with the ground thus broken, he's temporarily powerless, and I take great pleasure in crushing his neck between my fingers.

(https://i.imgur.com/p8GjIF9.jpg?3)

Five Serpents down, two to go!

Lake Ilkala awaits, but the shoreline looks fairly bleak and uninviting. I turn North instead, to explore the ruined city of Tinpani, destroyed by the Archmage long years ago. There isn't much to find even among the rubble, so complete was the city's destruction.  A few animal teeth are all that reward my search. The Past Light tower is the only building still standing; one trip up to the mechanism and the city comes alive again. The streets suddenly full of merchants, traders and miners who'll only be alive for as long as I have the beam trained on them.

I go back into the building in whose future ruins I found the teeth. It's the home of... well, not quite a dentist. A... tooth merchant? Toothmonger? Whatever he prefers to be called, he's desperate for teeth for his business. I sell him back his own teeth, plus a few of those I've picked up myself on my travels, and walk away positively groaning with gold! I have a chat with a few of Tinpani's denizens, then it's back to the Tower. Now I swing it south, to shine on the lakeshore. Tinpani once more becomes dead and empty, a city only of ghosts, but now there is a thriving fishing community on the shores of Ilkala. My attention is immediately drawn by a fishwife, offering to grill the day's catch. As the grilled fish in my pack were the only rations to survive my encounter with the Air Serpent (and I suspect there may be more drenchings to come in my immediate future!) I stock up on fish with the money from the Toothmonger. The smell and spit of the griddle makes my stomach groan with hunger, but when the fishwife hands me what I paid for, wrapped carefully in waxcloth, I carefully stash them all in my pack for later.

Mooching impatiently around on the lakeshore doesn't get me anywhere much. I heard about a boatman on my travels, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight, and there's a bell on a post that doesn't seem to summon anything at all. Tired of the fishermen and traders giving me strange looks, I resign myself to a long swim, and dive into the lake. To be honest, I'm expecting the Water Serpent to make its move the moment I'm away from the shore, but nothing happens. It's hard going, but feels almost like paradise after so many weeks of tramping along dusty roads, and eventually I make it to the first of several small islands in the middle of the lake, and stagger ashore for a badly needed rest. I lay my head on my pack and sleep the sleep of the dead; but I'm then rudely awoken by a FIREFOX (other web browsers are available).

(https://i.imgur.com/Iqmg0hx.jpg?1)

Once he's dispatched, I continue a recent theme and help myself to his teeth (handily, they can be used to start fires). I go back into a fitful sleep, waking in the grey of another dawn to what sounds like a voice calling my name. I wander inland, calling back. The voice seems to know exactly who I am – but it's warning me away, not calling me closer. I ignore the warning and press on to the centre of the island, to find a man tied to a single, blasted tree. With a jolt of recognition, I realise it's a sightmaster... Not just that, it's the Sightmaster Sergeant who saw me off on my travels when I left Analand. Abducted by the Archmage's birdmen, he's been deliberately left here in my path – as a trap, he says, but it also seems to be a very petty, very personal kind of message. The encounter doesn't have a happy outcome, and I leave the island more determined than ever to end the Archmage's misrule.

(https://i.imgur.com/B54kR6p.jpg?3)

The WATER SERPENT finally makes its move a short time after leaving the island. It's frankly a relief, and nice to have something to vent my anger on. A cast of SSS, and it tells me to beware the breath of Mucalytics; then it comes for me, fangs bared, wings outstretched. I have a second or so to think about what to throw into its open mouth. Thanks to Flanker, I know that its weakness is oil (always assuming he was telling the truth) but Fenestra said that the Sun and Water Serpents have a doomed love affair, because it would be fatal if they were ever to touch. I can't deny I'd like to watch apocalyptic fireworks like that, but I also like the idea of having the Sun Serpent in an orb at my belt, and who knows but it might yet come in handy, perhaps at the fortress of Mampang? So I throw the flask of oil. It has an almost instant effect. The Serpent breaks into splashes of water, which rain down on the lake surface. And... that's it! Easiest yet.

Six Serpents down, one to go.

An exhausting swim eventually gets me to the far shore of the Lake, and finally – finally! – the road to Xamen stands before me. I've done it. I'm the first Analander ever to survive the Baklands. Mampang Fortress is within sniffing distance... but there's the small matter of the Time Serpent in my wake. Call it hubris if you like, but I just can't abide the thought of letting the last one evade me; so I turn my back on the Xamen road and dive back into the lake, striking out for the island where the Time Serpent rests.

(https://i.imgur.com/0oMzHRf.jpg?9)

There's something very strange about this place. Clouds shift; stop; move once more. Insects fly backwards, or sometimes stop completely. It's as though the whole place runs on faulty clockwork. The Time Serpent is coiled in a pit at the island's centre, totally immobile. It occurs to me that it might be sleeping, of course, but my descent into the pit is hardly quiet or dignified, and still it doesn't stir. I allow myself to believe I've done it – worked out the key to its defeat. Lorag translated a verse from the goblin's parchment that claimed to give the clue to defeating the Serpent – something about the Back and Forth of Ages Past. So I played a hunch, and trained the lights of the three nearest Past Light towers on the Serpent's lair. Sure enough, the intersecting shafts of time seem to have pinned it in place. I run the creature through – still not quite believing it can be this easy – and still it doesn't stir, except to open one baleful eye and watch me do so.

Seven Serpents down!...

...but time was every bit as much my enemy here as the Serpents, and time might still be my downfall. It took me two full weeks to cross the Baklands. Even though his Serpents are dead, there's every chance the Archmage is, by now, well aware of my approach. I suppose I won't really know until I get to Mampang. So... call it a win with qualifications? Perhaps knowing I need the morale boost, an unseen Flanker has one last flirt with me – a curved assassin's sword left in a tree beside the Xamen road, with the words A GIFT carved into the pommel. That boy really is very sweet. I hope I don't have to kill him in the next adventure...

(https://i.imgur.com/tOCQufR.jpg?2)

The Verdict
Still no swindlestones! Boo!

It's a very nicely balanced game, this; I spent time travelling all over the place, talking to as many people as possible, stocking up on a wealth of items and clues – meaning most of the Serpents, for all their reputation, were actually quite easy to defeat – but doing this took a long time, which may have undone me in the final game. If I'd just bulldozed through on a wing and a prayer I'd have got through the game much faster, but probably found the Serpents a harder prospect.

Another great Sorcery! edition overall. I'm really going to miss not having another one ready to go when I finish the current game.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 September, 2022, 12:48:45 PM
I'm glad you finished it! I remember the Time Serpent bring much harder to beat than that, so much so that I thought it was the hardest of the four books!  I don't know if I just struggled to find the correct route or if the Past Light Towers weren't in the book (I don't remember them, but it's been about 20 years 🤷‍♂️). You seem to be indestructible!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 September, 2022, 01:21:56 PM
Quote from: Richard on 23 September, 2022, 12:48:45 PM
I'm glad you finished it! I remember the Time Serpent bring much harder to beat than that, so much so that I thought it was the hardest of the four books!  I don't know if I just struggled to find the correct route or if the Past Light Towers weren't in the book (I don't remember them, but it's been about 20 years 🤷‍♂️). You seem to be indestructible!

Though it didn't seem like it in the write-up, the middle section of the game (the Forest/Marsh/Steppes) took me aaaaaaaages. I haven't used the 'rewind' function much up until now, but there was a section I tried again, and again, and again with increasing frustration - in the present, the second Past Light tower was impassable and I just couldn't work out how to get into it (and until I did, there was no discovery of the 'fast travel' system and no lightbulb moment, not to mention no fixing of the bridge).

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 30 September, 2022, 01:45:15 PM
Rebel Planet

Another brand new one for me!

There's a long and detailed intro to the book describing the setup, which is basically that Earth has been subjugated by The Arcadian Empire and as the protagonist I'm a hand-picked special agent to stop this happening - so presumably the titular rebel planet is Earth! The Arcadians are a sort of reptilian hive mind race and have some kind of Krool-heart-esque computer that controls them all so all I have to do is blow it up and Earth is saved. This doesn't make sense really. Even dafter, the code to get to the computer is held by three rebel agents on three separate planets so I have to go visit them all. I know where the first one is but basically nothing about the other two. Ok....
Unlike the other sci-fi books there aren't loads of special rules for guns or space combat because humans aren't allowed any guns (all I have is a secret sword) but I am Way of the Tiger-like badass who can kill someone with a single blow, giving me a 1/6 chance of an instant kill should I ever be in a fistfight.

My super space ninja lands on the first planet, Tropos, which is a police state. Looking not to draw attention I take a cab to my assigned crappy human hotel instead of the meeting point, thinking I will slip out later. This backfires a bit when an Arcadian comes into the dorm and tries to kill another human, so I kill him and flee with my new mate, who I end up killing as well when he turns out to be a criminal who was going to turn me in. I do kill him with one blow though using the unarmed combat rules. Avenger would be proud!
Eventually I sneakily reach the rendezvous - a sleazy bar called Fission Chips - where I make contact with the rebels. They're incredibly paranoid, as you'd expect from a subjugated race living in a police state, and there's a lot of questions. I decide to play it totally straight with them and do exactly as they ask until they ask me to kill one of their cell: by refusing I show my 'human compassion' (which is a bit Star Trek) and they give me the code, sort of. Turns out they don't know the code, just a song that helps Arcadians remember the code. I haven't got a clue what this means, so like the dutiful freedom fighter I am I make a note of the paragraph number and decide to worry about it later.

It's time to leave Tropos and head for planet number 2. Under Arcadian rule Humans aren't allowed carry certain items, and when I assassinated the human criminal, I declined to take a load of his gear, so I manage to blag my way through customs and off Tropos. Radix is a much more relaxed place, with humans able to attend human universities and own businesses, but nevertheless I don;t draw attention to myself and stay at the scummiest place available ('Porkys') where I learn the relaxed atmosphere is something of a facade as there's some kind of battle robot that the authorities use to break up human demos. With a sinking feeling that I'll be seeing that later I head off the university to eavesdrop and end up meeting the second contact, the lecturer Professor Zacharias. He says he'll give me the code after his lecture - he asks if I want to attend but I make a mistake here and decide to go for a cup of coffee instead and when I come back the Prof has knocked off for the evening. I head back to Porkys, but I'm followed: I dodge the Arcadians and unsurprisingly they unleash the killer robot, called STREET FIGHTER, which sadly does not attack with Hadoukens but does use a sort of sonic boom, which means it's damage increases per hit - 2 stamina for the first successful attack, 3 for the second and so on. I have a weedy stamina and am in a bit of a panic, but my blows can do skill or stamina damage to it, so I spend a few rounds reducing it's skill from 9 to 5 by wrecking its guidance system and then make short work of it before going back to the hotel for dinner.
The next morning, I head back to meet the Prof only to find out he has been arrested for being the leader of the underground. I'm arrested too soon after, but the Prof leaves me a visual clue in the page art. Again this means nothing to me so I make another note of the paragraph.
Under arrest on Radix I deny being part of the underground... and am immediately executed. GAME OVER. This sucks, so I go again and admit to being part of the underground which means I qualify for some kind of gladiatorial contest which, if I win, I go free. This is clearly nonsense but it's a way out! I first have to navigate a 'one door is death the other is ok' but where my insistence with always going left saves my bacon, and to cut a long story short I kill some monsters and the Arcadians let me go like the chumps they are.

The third planet, Halmuris, is a hostile wasteland where nighttime sub-zero temperatures mean death. I have no weapon at this point and reduced skill due to the planets unfavorable gravity: on landing I try to acquire a new sword from the black market and end up killing more humans and setting the place one fire, although I do get a sword and a random roll also gives me some wirecutters. My first task is to navigate a huge fence where I'm asked if I picked up the wirecutters or a jet pack. DOH.
Once outside I know I need to head North East but also need to survive the freezing temperatures, so I take shelter in what turns out to be a carnivorous plant and nearly get digested. Now on pathetic stamina I wander haplessly lost until I encounter a weird telepathic light that asks me for a 'zplaran' before transforming into a huge demon and killing me immediately when I don't have one.
I'm a bit cheesed off by this weird death so I rewind a few paragraphs and try a different path. This time I battle some of the local fauna, get brutally bitten by a giant rat after shoving my hand into it's den and find a weird brightly coloured stick. The path then leads me back to the weird light, to which I offer the stick and it promptly tells me my contact is a guy named Dorado and gives me the password to talk to him. If this all sounds like it makes no sense - don't worry, it doesn't.
I eventually reach the facility where Dorado is based, only to find it's under attack. I take more stamina damage (by now my stamina is well into single figures) but Dorado gives me the final bit of the code... or does he? he just tells me the whole code is a palindrome.

From here I rush off to planet Arcadion to use the code 'info' I have acquired. There are two Arcadians on my ship and one of them knocks on my door late at night, which I ignore only to get another GAME OVER paragraph. WTF... I rewind again, open the door, and by a strange sequence of events end up wired up to an Arcadian mind control machine where an Arcadian scientist is trying to essentially bring me (and after that, all humans) into the hive mind. The book here switches to a sort of Neuromancer type scenario where I must defeat monsters to simulate my struggle with the machine. After each win the machine offers me some pitifully obvious-trap rewards, so I ignore them all and push on, eventually mind wiping the Arcadian and getting the door code to the main computer room basement.

Finally, Aracadion. I leave the ship in a rush before the Arcadians are discovered and head straight for the main computer. Here I'm asked for the three bits of the code: 9 binary digits. With this info I can go back and with a bit of puzzling work out the three previous clues. This bit is absolutely ingenious and I was very impressed with it!
Once inside I'm offered the chance to go straight to the computer or visit the basement: I've got the code, so I pop down and it turns out to be full of weapons. I swipe a gun and some plastic explosive, gun down the guards and blow up the computer. VICTORY!

What a load of fun nonsense this book was. As most of the previous sci-fi ones have been terrible I didn't have high hopes, but overall it was great to play, although not without issue: the start is definitely the best bit with the player involved in cloak and dagger operations in a sort of alien Soviet Union, with careful thought and characterful decisions rewarding you with the best results. After that there's a steady decline in quality and increase in rushed-ness and by the time you hit planet number three there's a lot of  'do you go left or right' choices and a several auto-deaths. The bit with the sentient light and the stick is pure nonsense and the last planet is a total rush job as you basically land at the computer, go in and blow it up. And let's not start on the whole hive mind / computer concept itself: the aliens show no sign at all of being hive-mind-y whatsoever and the whole thing is an obvious, and weak, macguffin for you to be able to blow up a single object and save the galaxy. A more thematic option would be something like releasing a spore that kills them all off, but I can see why the book wanted to avoid genocide or anything along those lines and went with a big 'make them all friendly' button. The whole ending though felt very rushed - even the final paragraph is a bit 'yay! you win' although not as bad as Space Assassin.
Criticisms aside the rest was cool. The binary puzzle, and the way it was hidden (especially in the illustration) was both very unqiue and very clever (and surely far to tricky for a child to work out). The artwork is superb throughout and the tone is not too serious whilst not being too silly at the same time. I felt it didn't lean too hard into the sci-fi nature of things - no guns etc felt weird but nicely simplified things, and aside from a few bits the whole thing could have been set in a fantasy type setting with minimal changes. Well worth playing imo and a very pleasant surprise.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 30 September, 2022, 02:13:31 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 30 September, 2022, 01:45:15 PM
...Fission Chips...

😆
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 30 September, 2022, 03:05:16 PM
Forgot to mention this book is very generous on stamina recovery - every time you eat or sleep you get some back, and you recover half your initial stamina each time to fly to a new planet.
I started with a high skill and low stamina and without this I'd have been well dead. High Skill is essential for this as there's a ton of skill tests (including a vital one to learn how to beat the Street Fighter)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 30 September, 2022, 04:43:38 PM
Good write-up! I laughed at the wirecutters/ jet pack bit.

I agree with your view that the first planet is the best. I'd rather that bit had been bigger and one of the other planets been skipped altogether. Overall it's a fun book though.

I don't have FF 19, but I'm just about to start FF 20: Sword of the Samurai by the authors of Way of the Tiger.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 01 October, 2022, 03:54:52 PM
FF 20: Sword of the Samurai

I started this book last night and I was expecting to play it over the next couple of days, but I got so into it that I finished it last night, and then went back and read all the bits I missed. So that is a good sign!

It's a fun book. It has all the hallmarks of Mark Smith and Jamie Thomson's writing: lots of description and world-building, lots of instant death paragraphs and gruesome nastiness, lots of demons, and a choice of special skills. And it's beautifully illustrated by Alan Langford, who also did Island of the Lizard King but his work here is better. There are some absolutely fabulous illustrations.

I'll do some spoiler tags here and there, but of course this whole review will be spoilerific!

There are four special skills to choose from. I chose one where I get to fight with two swords at the same time, which means that if I roll a 9 or above in combat then I get an extra attack.  There is also an Honour score, where you start with 3 and if you drop to zero then you have to kill yourself in disgrace!

My mission is to go to some villain's mountain lair, assassinate him, and retrieve a magic sword he stole. Most of the book consists of the journey to get there. The first choice to make is a choice between two routes. It's not quite as bad as "east or west" because there's a bit of description about each route, but it's hardly ideal, and as I chose the least interesting of the two routes, I'd say it's the weakest thing about the whole book.

I thought that travelling through somewhere called the Forest of Shadows sounded like asking for trouble, so I went the other way. I should have followed Bazza Boots' rule of always going left! If I had, I would have fought some evil ronin samurai, infiltrated a castle to assassinate an evil lord, met a dragon, fought the undead samurai on the front cover, and increased my Honour score considerably. I might also have picked up a companion, an anti-Mungo who sticks around for a while and is actually helpful, and even has an opportunity to survive!

Instead, the route east took me on an altogether less heroic journey, where I only got one extra Honour point. At least I was still able to complete my quest by going this way -- it's not a one true path book, and so it goes up in my estimation for that. I started by bullying some slightly stroppy peasants (which reminds me a bit of Monty Python), and that was where I got my only Honour point. Well, I'd heard that real life samurai were dicks, so it makes sense that they would be dicks in Khul too!

On my first playthrough, I next killed a ronin who had a skill of 10, which I felt justified my choice of starting with maximum scores -- especially after I stole his stuff, which was booby-trapped and cost me two skill points! This is certainly not a book you could do with a skill of 7 reduced to 5!

My newly acquired items were a map and a key. They are both potentially useful items, but are they indispensable? "Hope not!" I thought, and when I got killed in my next encounter, I avoided coming this way again on my second go, finding instead a route from the peasants directly to where I was killed last time and bypassing this whole sorry business.

My first demise was in a village where the inhabitants seem to be friendly but turn out not to be what they seem. In the daytime they seem normal, but at night [spoiler]they reveal themselves to be very sinister undead creatures! They're more interesting and much more deadly than regular zombies. Their heads come off their shoulders and fly directly at you, trying to headbutt you into oblivion![/spoiler] After winning a fight against some of them, I realise I am still hopelessly outnumbered and have to flee. Running through the dark I fall into a well and, unable to take off my armour quickly enough, it weighs me down and I drown ignominiously!

I was a bit puzzled by the fact that I had successfully Tested my Luck immediately before that sudden death paragraph. Was it a mistake? So I looked at the alternative, and it turned out that is also a sudden death too, just a much more horrible one! How very typically Smith & Thomson!

Oddly, my next fight was with an elk. Um, okay. I win, and collect one of its antlers as a trophy. This comes in useful later, in circumstances where no rational person would think to use it, but never mind. I then get killed trying to ford a river. On my next try, I just carry on from where I arrived at the river and this time manage to cross it, successfully navigating a quite tricky encounter with some weird scaly aquatic creatures, but (as I find out later) missing the opportunity to collect a useful magical item from them.

I now enter a swamp, and am given a choice of three directions I could head in. The ronin's map would have come in handy here, but I don't have it on this playthrough. I choose the two wrong directions and pay with my life twice. On my third route through the swamp, I make it through, and am ambushed by a giant trapdoor spider. At this point, I realise I have been forgetting to eat provisions! I have to start this battle with a stamina of 5, and although I somehow manage to survive, I am killed immediately at the next encounter, which to be fair is a demon so no shame there. Reincarnating just after the fight with the huge spider, I go in the other direction to avoid the demon, defeat two more spiders, and then arrive at the mountains where the big baddy lives. This is the point where the two main routes through the book finally converge. I'm at the endgame!

(Incidentally, if you do have the map, you can find your way to some location which is impossible to reach without it, where you can pick up some useful magic items, but where there is also a high risk of being killed.)

There is now a big chunk of the book where I basically have to duel some demon to get into the final boss's lair. The duel is to take place in an arena, and before going there I am given the opportunity to recruit up to seven allies to aid me in the forthcoming battle; meanwhile the demon is recruiting his own allies to fight against me. This is the point in the book where it is basically asking me how many magic items I managed to pick up on the way here (one!) and how high my Honour score is (4, I needed at least 5). The result is that I enter the arena with a paltry one "ally" (and it's not even a person, just a wand I picked up in exchange for the elk antler). My opponent has three! He is accompanied by a giant toad monster, a giant praying mantis, and a giant actual giant called Gargantus. I just have my wand which, I hope, has some magic power which I can use despite having had no training in magic. Frankly, I have done so badly in getting to this point that I could really have no complaint if the book instantly killed me. But it turns out that one item or ally is enough. The wand disposes of the giant toad, and then I fight each of the other three opponents in turn. I defeat them all, with only one stamina point left! I'm almost giddy with victory.

(This section of the book is well-constructed, having many paragraphs devoted to the various different combinations of allies which each side can pit against the other. If I had gone into this battle with more allies, I could have chosen who to send to fight the mantis, the giant and the demon. Some of these allies would have won, and some would have been killed, the outcomes depending on who they are fighting against. It's actually brilliant stuff!)

Anyway. The demon, with his dying breath, is bound by demonic law or something to answer one question. I ask him the wrong one, suspecting that what turns out to have been the right question to ask is a trap (a reasonable assumption, I think, since it is based on [spoiler]what appeared to be vital information which I was told by the Shogun at the start of my mission[/spoiler]).

I finally face the person who stole the Sword of the Samurai, the dude I've been sent to assassinate, and very helpfully he has the sword with him so I don't have to search for it like Zagor's treasure or something. I stuff my face with a hasty meal, but I only have time to eat once so I still only have 5 stamina points. Even worse, I don't have the knowledge I was supposed to get from the vanquished demon, and so I am killed. I resume play from that interrogation, learn the essential info, and still get killed anyway. But on my next go, I manage to survive for long enough to retrieve the sword, for some pretty impressive bonuses to my skill, stamina and luck scores, all of which are allowed to exceed their initial values! I now legitimately have a skill score of 14!

With my new sword I fight a demon, win easily, and then make a bad choice about how to confront my final enemy (there were four options), leading to sudden death. But on my next (ninth and final) life, I make the right choice. I am still brutally punished for not having enough Honour points, and am deprived of one of my just-recently-acquired skill points, but I still have a skill of 13 for my single combat with my final adversary, who has a skill of 12. I defeat him and turn to 400! Yay!

I very much enjoyed this book. It's just as good as I would expect from these authors, the art is invariably great, and while the plot is basically a hike through hostile lands and then a couple of big fights at the end, most FF books are like that so I can't really complain. Well worth getting this on eBay!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 01 October, 2022, 06:19:28 PM
Oh, what?! And here was I wondering when to post my Demons of the Deep write-up...!  😅

Okay, here's my SotS playthrough instead (without, I stress, having read Richard's yet).


Sword of the Samurai

Sometimes, as a grown man of 38 playing 1980s gamebooks that feel pitched squarely at 7-year olds (hello, Demons of the Deep!) you can wonder what you're doing with your life. Can Sword of the Samurai re-engage me? It's a new one for me; Japanese mythology has never hugely interested me, and the awful (original) cover never helped, so it was a book I had never sought out. But the effusive reviews of the authors' Way of the Tiger books are more than enough to earn the benefit of the doubt...

So we've said goodbye to the Potions, but provisions are still hanging around for now. There's also a new Honour stat to keep track of, and a choice of special skills – Archery, Fast Draw, Heroic Leaping, and Dual-Wielding (of which you can choose one). I choose Archery, and roll up a character of Skill 10, Stamina 20 and Luck 11. Not too bad at all...

The Playthrough
Part 1 – Of Samurai and Shikome
I, Samurai Kensei for the Shogun Hasekawa, am charged to recover the legendary Dai-Katana, Singing Death – the very soul of the land of Hachiman. The sword must be wrested from the grasp of Ikiru, the Master of Shadows, before he overruns our fair and pleasant land of cherry blossoms with all manner of demons and ghosts. The dominions of Konichi are still at peace, but I'm not far into the province of Lord Tsietsin before my eyes speak to me of a burning village nearby. Bandits, most likely, emboldened by the loss of Singing Death. I could not square it with my honour if I closed my ears to the despairing screams of the villagers, and immediately turn off the main road. Before I've reached the village, a horseman comes barrelling towards me – a SAMURAI WARRIOR, in the green-and-blue lacquered armour of Lord Tsietsin. What infamy is this?! Lord Tseitsin is a vassal of the Shogun – how can it be that his warriors openly prey on defenceless peasants?  Well, If the capital letters hadn't already clued you in, I have to fight him

(https://i.imgur.com/nxyOMO0.jpg?1)

I'm given the option to prowl the edge of the village firing arrows, but – despite being mightily tempted – I elect to stride straight into the middle of the village and demand the SAMURAI face me in single combat. These men are not entirely lost to honour, at least, for three of them take me up on my challenge. One by one, I cut them down. Their more cowardly brethren decide discretion is the better part of valour, and flee. I approached the village on 20 stamina; I'll leave it on a mere 4. Such is the price of honour. But I've gained 1 Honour for taking on the samurai, 1 Honour and 1 Luck for saving the village – and a further 1 Honour for sparing the life of a wounded young samurai, left behind by his fellows, whom the villagers are trying to lynch. The grateful warrior offers to be my retainer – perhaps as a way to remove the stain of his dishonour. When I accept (to the open disgust of the villagers) he introduces himself as Yomitsume Moichi. I tell Mungo I'm glad to know him. 'Moichi,' he corrects. Why? What did I say?

(https://i.imgur.com/YiPmeUh.jpg?1)

Together we take to the road once more, Moichi telling me – at some length, it has to be said – all about his family history. He's a likeable young sort, although I'm still not sure if I entirely trust him. Soon a vast edifice looms on the crest of the next hill – the palace of Lord Tseitsin. My eyes narrow. I know exactly what I must do. Moichi looks appalled when I tell him my plans; but he doesn't try to talk me out of it. Supposedly he knows of a litte-guarded postern gate, and the password to get through – and I've little choice but to put my life in his hands.

On guard in the courtyard are two Shikome – vile humanoid beasts, squeezed into rusty armour in mockery of true samurai. So! Tseitsin is in league with Ikiru, and his legions of darkness. All the more important to visit the Shogun's justice on him, then. I don the armour of the unconscious guard, and we march boldly up to the Shikome, demanding audience with Tseitsin. Three of the creatures are called to leads us through the palace. We bide our time a litte, then strike. Mungo Moichi gamely takes on one Shikome, while I engage the other two. Despite having to fight them both together, they don't prove as much of a challenge as the samurai earlier, and we manage to slay them before any alarm is raised (though it all ends up hinging on a buttock-clenching Luck roll, to make sure we finish them in the allotted nine rounds). Poor old Moichi seems to have taken the worst of it – though he's not lost any of his sass. We now blunder somewhat ineptly through the palace, passing gawking servants and slaves aplenty. I suppose I had been assuming that Moichi knew the layout – had, perhaps, been in his feudal Lord's own palace before. Alas, not – despite knowing of the postern gate, and the password. Hmm.

(https://i.imgur.com/5fYaujV.jpg?1)

By mere blind chance we bump into Lord Tseitsin himself, waddling down a corridor with a samurai either side! His jowls wobble as he gapes at us, incredulous. Looking him up and down (it's quicker than going across) I notice he is wearing the hat which indicates the office of shogun, and my blood boils within me. He barks a command, and TSEITSIN'S BODYGUARD rush to defend their master. Faithful Moichi darts forward to engage one, while I set about the other. I fare better than he does, as I'm told afterwards – yet again! – that he's been wounded. That's at least three times now, just in the short while I've known him!

The two of us then dash after Tseitsin (me bolting down some Spicy tuna rolls as I go). His Lordship was not built for speed, and despite his lead we've soon cornered him in one of the many richly-decorated palace rooms. None too soon, either – he's on the brink of manouvering his vast bulk down into a trapdoor. The traitorous swine protests his loyalty to Shogun Hasekawa – a pitiful display of false contrition that he quickly shows the lie to. Tseitsin's eyes narrow with malice, and he suddenly flings a needle-like dagger from within his sleeve, catching me on the leg and losing me 3 Stamina points. Thank Hotei I munched all that sushi! A curt nod passes between Moichi and I, and we slay the perfidious patrician together.

Well, I'm no closer to the Singing Death, but an important bannerman of Ikiru has been slain, and the honour of Hachiman restored. In a gold-and-black lacquered chest I find a new suit of armour, 100(!) gold pieces, and an arrow with the power to dispel evil spirits. There's no time to enjoy these spoils, though – no sooner has Moichi helped me into the new armour than Tseitsin's guards are hammering on the doors. We dart down into the stygian darkness of the trapdoor, and the unknown...

(https://i.imgur.com/3nke97B.jpg?1)

It's down in the gloom, among the piled bones of countless luckless sacrifices, that Moichi's luck finally runs out. A Mukade – a horrific, forty-foot centipede from Hell itself – darts from the gloom, and takes his whole arm and most of one shoulder in a single bite. Noooooo! Mungooooooooo-! Ahem. I'm not sure why I said that. It must have been the grief. I vent my fury on the wretched monster, which, while having an impressive Stamina of 20, doesn't give me any trouble with its Skill of only 7. I'm in time to speak a little with Moichi before he departs this life; a sad loss, but I know that he'll be received well in the halls of Heaven. A light went out in Hachiman today. A light called Moichi.

Intermission – Of Riddles and Rotters
Soon I reach the Forest of Shadows. It has an air of deep and abdiding mystery – something magical in the air. So I'm almost prepared for a wingless dragon – a TATSU – to coil lazily down from the canopy above me. It grins with an impossible number of teeth, and invites me to try to answer its riddle. The implications of not even attempting to answer are not worth thinking about. It's one of those 'Once you think you have an answer, convert the letters of the alphabet to numbers, add them together and see if it's the right paragraph'-type games. I hate these. I really do. To the extent that I'd frankly rather just fight the dragon, and save myself the headache. But I do have one possible answer... So before it comes to sword-swinging, I convert my answer to numbers, turn to the paragraph, and... nobody is more astounded than myself when the Tatsu immediately curls up and dies! The forest immediately loses all sense of mystique, and becomes... just a forest.

(https://i.imgur.com/U3y5cqk.jpg?1)

After the Forest comes the Hang-Kiang river, and the Hagakure Bridge. As soon as I set foot on it, everything changes – the sky becomes darker, the river becomes blood-red, and skeletal bodies are now floating on its surface. A hideous UNDEAD SAMURAI now stands upon the other end of the bridge, advancing with katana in hand. It fights in eerie, absolute silence, and things don't get any less creepy when it turns invisible for a while! Frankly it's a relief when, after taking five wounds, the skeleton leaps back to the other end of the bridge. But this isn't much of a reprieve – it makes a strange, ululating cry. To my horror, the bodies beneath the bridge begin to stir and swarm it. Enough of this necromancy! I notch Tsunewara's special spirit-dispelling arrow into my bow, and send it straight into the breast of the undead samurai. It dissolves with a shriek, and the cadavers become just that. The river and sky return to their normal colours, and I can feel a great evil has been dispelled. I walk over the pile of ash that was the undead samurai – stopping to pick an ivory horn from the detritius – and then the Shi'Oni montains stand before me.

Part 2 – Of Demons and Doorways
I begin to work my way up the mountainside when a muscular man-like figure, in robes of gold and silver, materialises before me. His face radiates power and malice, and I recognise him as a Dai-Oni, or greater demon. Here's where the adventure suddenly goes a bit... psychedelic. Everything around me disappears, and I'm suddenly floating among the countless stars, in open Space. Eight doors appear, suspended in the vacuum. The voice of the Dai-Oni gloatingly informs me that, before he grants me entry to the domain of Ikiru, I must try to win over as many of the powerful creatures behind the doors as I can, before facing the Dai-Oni and his own allies for a smackdown at the Place of Battle. So let's see – in no particular order – how we fare...

There's a GREAT SERPENT that doesn't seem particularly inclined to chat. I lift my ivory horn to my lips and blow, but the serpent doesn't even seem to have ears. It comes down, inevitably, to a brawl. Scratch one Great Serpent. Failure...?

I meet a strange composite creature; a horse-like beast with vast wings and a benevolent lion's face – the noble KI-RIN. He looks me up and down, and judges my quest a worthy one. I have followed the path of honour wherever possible, as my Honour score of 7 attests. He will aid me, come the Battle. Success!

I face a PHOENIX, but, as I don't have a Phoenix Ruby, he isn't much interested in what I have to say. I'm given a little lick of flame for my troubles. Scratch 2 Stamina and 1 potential ally. Failure.

(https://i.imgur.com/JxxRUhX.jpg?2)

The TATSU is back, and, just to show that there's absolutely no sour grapes over my killing him in the Forest, immediately blasts me in the face with magic fire, for a loss of 4 Stamina. Touchy lot, these immortals. Failure.

There's a confused woman in a forest with blue fire crackling around her hands. She doesn't seem to know who she is, and I'm not really the man to help her there! The only item that I have (that I'm given the option to try) is my ivory horn. When I blast it in her face, she bursts into tears and runs off into the trees. Which is a fair enough response. Failure.

A giant Sabre-tooted Tiger sizes me up, decides that I'd make a nice snack, and charges, fangs dripping with saliva. Surely this is what the Ivory horn is for...? Surely? My desperate blast has an immediate effect; the tiger calms, studies me, and gently licks my face. I get a sense that I have made another ally. Success!

Finally I meet nine noble warriors – samurai, perhaps, but men of strangely pale complexion and hair the colour of straw, wearing white surcoats over golden armour the likes of which I've never seen before. Do I return to them the War-fan of their King? Thankfully, I do – I picked it up in the catacombs below Tseitsin's palace, after poor Moichi died. The Golden Company pledges their support. Success!

That's it, then. I've been through every door, for good or ill – nothing else to do but head to the Field of Battle...

(https://i.imgur.com/wtNbhst.jpg?2)

I arrive in a vast colosseum, where the Dai-Oni and his allies await. Ghostly figures of a bygone age materialise in the seats all around, to start laying bets on the outcome. The Dai-Oni's champions are an, ahem, 'eclectic' lot; a toad, a giant Preying Mantis and a fifteen-foot man of bronze with goat legs and eyes of glowing red flame. The Dai-Oni barks an order to something called a 'GRAALSCH', and the enormous toad-thing hops forward. I'm asked which of my allies I'll send against it. (So this is evidently how it's going to go down – not a free-for-all, but one-on-one). I motion the Sabre-toothed Tiger forward, holding back what I feel are the more impressive of my allies for the later rounds. I chose wisely here – my tiger immediately lays open the Graalsch's side with its talons, then proceeds to casually tear it to pieces. After my tiger dematerialises, I'm actually left feeling rather embarrassed at how easily my champion won.

I needn't bother, as that's about as good as it gets! I send the Golden Company against the MANTIS DEMON, and have to watch as they are slaughtered to a man; their weapons unable to pierce the chitinous armour of the Mantis. Reluctantly, I motion the Ki-Rin forward, despite hoping to hold him back for the bronze giant. To my horror and utter disbelief, the Mantis lazily beheads the noble beast. That's it – no allies left. I stand alone, with the Dai-Oni and two monsters still left to defeat. Quaking somewhat in my armour, I walk forward, hardly daring to face the Mantis that made such short work of my otherworldly allies. How can I, a mere mortal, possibly hope to – wait, Skill 7? Skill 7?! After all that build-up the Mantis Demon goes down easily, only getting in a single scratch.

GARGANTUS, the bronze giant, now lumbers forward, and I have a feeling he'll prove a little tougher – especially as, every third round, I have to roll an extra die, and if it's an odd number then the Gargantus blasts me with his eye beams. I dodge the first such beam, but get hit by the second. The battle goes as close as it's possible to go – the Gargantus and I both end up on 2 Stamina apiece, before I manage to bring him down (and just before a third eye-beam attack!) I bolt back my penultimate provision to take me back up to a still-measly 6 Stamina, and then the DAI-ONI steps forward, less than pleased that I took down all his champions (never mind that he started this whole bloody thing!) He doesn't have the worst stats ever – Skill 10, Stamina 20 – but whenever he lands a blow, I have to roll a die for an extra, horrible effect; once I lose a Luck point; and twice – as if this battle wasn't hard enough – I lose a Skill point. Needless to say, it isn't a battle that lasts too long. May the Shogun forgive me.

The Verdict
The dice did not like me. Despite two different playthroughs, both on Skill 10, I fought several Skill 7/8 enemies who made absolute mincemeat of me. That's hardly the book's fault, though, and it's by and large a cracker! The art is by Alan Langford, last seen on Island of the Lizard King, and he's obviously having as much fun as the reader.

I loved the sudden move into mythical psychedelia, with the Hub of eight doors and the big arena confrontation. Who will you recruit for your cause? Who will you send against the enemy champions? It's superb stuff, the likes of which we haven't really seen thus far in the FF series. The only disappointment is that the Dai-Oni is a complete randomer – nothing really to do with your quest at all. It would have felt much more narratively fitting if this part of the book had been the climactic confrontation with Ikiru.

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Pyroxian on 02 October, 2022, 02:47:55 PM
I thought I'd try something different to FF, so:
GrailQuest: The Castle of Darkness

This series was the first I played, before I ended up getting a pile of FF books and then finally getting into the Lone Wolf series

The system itself isn't too tricky, your only stat is your Life Points, which are generated by rolling 2D6 and multiplying by 4. You get 3 rolls and can pick the best one. I roll 5/5/9, so end up with 36 LP
Basic combat is done by rolling 2d6. If you score a 6 or more you hit and whatever you score over 6 is the damage dealt. Reducing an enemy to less than 5 LP will knock them unconscious and reducing them to 0 or less will kill them. Certain weapons need a lower number to hit and can do bonus damage, and armour can reduce damage.
Some monsters can also be bribed to let you pass if you have enough gold!
You can also gain XP points for solving puzzles and winning combats. Each 20 XP gives you a permanent Life Point which is added on to your rolled LP total.

Anyway on with reading the book. Turns out it's an actual spell that puts me in control of a young farm-person named Pip back in Arthurian times. Unfortunately I body-swap right at the point that they're being bullied by a kid named Mean Jake. So this is my first introduction to basic combat and... the dice hate me. I land one blow on Jake before he knocks 10 LP off me and I beg for mercy.

After going home, some soldiers arrive and escort me off to a Log Castle where I meet Merlin who explains that Guinevere is about to be kidnapped by the dreaded Wizard Ansalom and that I'm going to be the one to volunteer to rescue her. To this end I'm given a large amount of equipment, including some healing potions, armour (-4 damage) and a smaller version of Excalibur (Named Excalibur Junior, or EJ for short), which hits on a 4+ and does +5 damage and can also talk.
I'm also given some magical spells (after a small mishap which sets fire to some scrolls) - 10 lightning bolts which automatically hit and do 10 damage, and 2 fireballs which hit on a 6+ and do 75 damage.

After all of this I'm sent to meet King Arthur and end up being escorted to the edge of the forest to start the adventure properly.

I promptly run into a wolf, which I managed to bribe by offering it my packed lunch. Carrying on I arrive at the Wizard Ansalom's Dark Castle without any further major mishaps. It looks very unguarded, which makes me wary so I enter cautiously... and arrive in a courtyard. Seeing some chickens and being a farm-worker, I decide to wander over and look at them. Turns out they are Savage Chickens and I end up pecked to death, which takes me to section 14.

Section 14 explains the death rules. I have to re-roll my LP (9/12/5 so the maximum of 48!) and will respawn at the entrance to the forest, and lose any equipment/treasure I gained during the adventure. On the plus side, any creatures that I have killed will no longer be around and I can safely ignore them. On the down side any equipment that they drop will also have disappeared... It also explains that I should make a map as I go along, which turns out to be very useful later on.

So back to the start I go, and I go right this time in order to avoid the wolf and end up meeting a Black Knight. After that encounter I end up back in the castle courtyard. This time I avoid the chickens and climb up to the ramparts, where I'm shot at by archers. I only lose a few LP so I take a healing potion and head straight for the doors on the other side of the courtyard.

And promptly fall down a hidden trapdoor into a corridor. Proceeding down the corridor I fall into a Pit Trap, but avoid the spikes. I then enter a series of caves, fight a living compost heap and then end up back in series of corridors. I find a room with 6 zombies in, which I narrowly manage to defeat, despite them hitting on a 9+ (But effectively getting 6 attacks to my 1). After exploring some more corridors I find a secret door which takes my to an Underground Cavern with a lake in it. Despite EJ's misgivings, I get into a boat and find myself on an island. A meeting with the Lady of the Lake gains me a Luckstone - a magical item which allows me to add or subtract 3 from any roll I make).

Heading back I end up at a corridor junction. I head East and end up in a magically darkened room with the sound of breathing. I decided to go back and try West, end up in a large circular chamber with a statue of Ansalom in it, but the door locks itself behind me! Solving the puzzle, I manage to make it out unscathed and try West again, this time using a lightnig bolt to light up the room. I manage to make friends with the creature in the room and end up getting some money and a magic scroll containing a Death spell (Instantly kills an opponent, but also kills me if a double is rolled on 2D6).

After this there are no more sections offered by the book that I haven't already gone to, but having made a map, I'm able to retrace my steps back to a chamber that had some steps leading up. Climbing them I fall down another pit, and get the option to explore it, which I do. After several encounters, one of which is a poisonous snake which kills on 1 hit (The Luckstone proves very handy here), I find another secret door. Opening it means I get the drop on some guards which I quickly dispatch. Carry on I get ambushed by some more guards while searching, but I do find a treasure room! I can't take it all, but take a large amount of gems and some gold.

I carry on East, and arrive at a crossroads. There are some guards down one of the branches which end up spotting me so I have to fight them. But it turns out they were guarding Ansalom's Magical Workroom, where I roll for a random magical item. I get a globule wand, which prevents the enemy from attacking for the next 4 strikes.

Going back to the crossroads I head west and enter a seemingly empty guard-room. It's not empty though but I manage to defeat the undead spawn that appears as I had an item in my starting equipment that I hadn't used yet. I loot a jewelled ring, and head north into Ansalom's throne room!

Ansalom is guarded by 2 hounds, but they are bribable so I use some of my treasure from the Treasure Room to avoid that fight.
Fighting Ansalom, I use my globule wand to prevent him from attacking and then use 2 fireballs to defeat him. A pretty easy fight!
Loading up the contents of the Treasure Room onto a cart, I head back to Camelot where I am hailed as a hero. Unfortunately I end up getting the treasure cart stolen - oops.

It was fun to play through, with quite a lot of humour but definitely aimed at younger readers than FF. It's also quite a short book - only 150 sections, which means a lot of the branching sections are quite close to each other with some choices ending up on the same page. I also encountered a couple of wrong section numbers as well, but the map allowed me to work out the correct one.

Annoyingly the Luckstone is way OP - I pretty much couldn't lose once I got it. It would've been better if you could only use it once per section, or it had a limited number of charges. It lasts until you die, and you can take it forward to future adventures as well.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 October, 2022, 12:59:51 PM
Thanks for this writeup Pyroxian, really enjoyed it! I very much enjoyed the Grailquest books I played when I was a boy - it helped that they weren't hugely difficult, but there was something about the way they are written, talking directly to the reader and teasing breaking the 4th wall, that I always felt really drew me in and made me feel like I actually was part of the world and something slightly magical was happening. I've still got a couple of them somewhere. I'd love to read more playthroughs and opinions on them....

On the FF front I was going to do Demons of the Deep next but I guess I'll be jumping ahead one to Samurai so we can have a playthrough trifecta (and I can read DJ and Richard's posts!)...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 October, 2022, 03:40:46 PM
Looks like it's time for The Sword of the Samurai Again!

This is a new one for me too. I played through this before reading the playthroughs above, but I've read them now, so I won't go over the background or quest goal again, but it's a good one and the background and book are very well written throughout.

I never go into these books with less than SKILL 10, so I roll up a SK11 ST 15 Samurai - a skilled fighter, but obviously of ill health - I suspect I have some form of consumption. I choose the skill of Iaijutsu, or fast draw, which essentially means all enemies start fights 3 stamina down. From the off I decide to play this guy as arrogantly as possible. I decide to avoid the creepily named Forest of Shadows and march thro8gh the fens where I humble some stupid peasants who dared disrespect my liege, boosting my honour for putting them in their place. Approaching the village I demand a place to stay, which the villagers agree - but with ulterior motives as they transform into terrifying Rokuro-Kobi, flying head demons. My swordmanship is no match for a swarm of these undead horrors and only DEATH awaits.

Disappointed to have died so quick I rewind and instead of staying in the village I stride arrogantly away. I encounter and defeat one of the horrible heads, counting my blessings as I proceed through the mists and out of the Shoguns land. Here I defeat the legendary Black Elk of the Marcher Lands - a beast that I am told weighs several tons when I later try and pick it up, although I do claim it's horn. Arriving at the Hiang-Kiang River I am given options to ford it and decide to cross upstream, away from the churning water, although the stiller water looks grim and slimy and I suspect attack. I am right - a gang of Kappa emerge and  attack. Using my fast draw sword I behead one and gain the far bank, but the otherwordly Kappa cannot be defeated by swordmanship alone and I am overwhelmed. A second attempt sees me drive them back into the river, but when I demand their fealty they skewer me with a thrown trident. Eventually I rewind and cross below the ford, but essentially the same things happen and I give up on this playthrough in disgust. DEATH x 3

Time for a new me! This Samurai has teh same skill but much more stamina, although he is somewhat unlucky: he must have been born under an inauspicious star. I decide this time to take the skill or archery, as it's not often you get a chance in FF to shoot things. It's a good job the Shogun had two loyal retainers to send on this quest..!

Noting the failure of my colleague at the river I instead strike out for the forest. As per Jimbo's playthrough above I decide to aid a village being attacked by dishonourable lackeys of the disloyal Lord Tsietin. Their leader wounds me with his spear but I dispatch the rogue and then duel with three others: my confidence sees me wounded by the first, an unskilled fighter, but I slay him and his fellows without taking a scratch. With my honour rising steadily I pardon the survivor of the raiders and Moichi, for such is his name, pledges his life to me. He claimed he only rebelled because could not go against his lord, which makes sense, but I ensure he knows he is my subordinate. I actually expect him to die in short order (he does). He isn't best pleased when I then demand we attack Lord Tsietin's fortress, but that villains actions cannot go unpunished. Moichi comes good here, for he shows me the back way into the castle. Stealthily entering I shoot some guards and we enter the castle. We are soon lost but thankfully Lord Tsietin himself comes wandering down a corridor with a couple of bodyguards - Moichi and I make short work of them and we then slay the traitor, despite his cowardly attempt to murder me whilst begging for clemency.

Stealing some of Lord Tsietin's treasures, we decide to take Tsietins escape hatch rather than take on his entire army of samurai and vanish into a dark tunnel. Said tunnel is not a safe escape route however as it contains a 40 foot giant centipede that makes short work of Moichi and despite it's inferior skill, beats the hell out of me. The beast finally slain I rest in the tunnel, scoffing provisions and reflecting on my ill luck and Moichi's noble death. I also find some more treasure - a (welcome) healing potion and a great artifact. The third treasure is a helmet, but I decide not to press my luck as even the most benevolent of FF authors won't give you three good items in a row.
Next stop is the Forest of Shadows itself, home to a Tatsu or dragon that demands I answer it's riddles or be eaten. The first riddle is easy, the second one takes me a fair bit of mucking about as I'm not sure of the exact word the book is looking for. A couple of attempts wins through and the dragon sulkily gives me a jade talisman and a bit of obscure advice. Although dragons are oft liars, one should always pay heed to their words so I memorise what he told me and pass on through the forest to the Hiang-Kang River.

Here fell sorcery is at work, for as I step onto the bridge I am confronted by a demon samurai. This battle, as depicted on the cover, is HORRIBLE and yes, I nearly die again. Eventually I weaken it enough to send it leaping back across the bridge and I am given the opportunity to shoot it with the magic arrow I took from Lord Tsietin's treasury. This puts paid to the creature and my reward is a mysterious ivory horn with a tiger engraved upon it.
Munching on provisions I begin to climb the mountainside that will take me to my goal only to meet the Dai-Oni's strange challenge. Obviously I go through every single door. The first door reveals the puzzling Tatsu: I answered his riddle, and he decides he will aid me as he also wishes to see the master of Shadows slain.  The second door reveals a vast sabre-tooth tiger - I have a tiger-embossed horn, which I blow, and the tiger comes tamely to my side. The third door brings me before a Ki-Ren, a servitor of the gods, who (thanks to my large honour score) agrees to aid me also.
Things are going great until I open door number four - I have no means of taming the phoenix, and it burns me for my troubles. I run away. Door five leads to the swamp - again I have no means of taming the serpent within so beat a tactical withdrawl. Next I encounter a host of strangely dressed warriors - I have the artifact they seek, and they pledge to my aid. The final door takes me to a sorceress: it's plain from the options I am given in the text that I do not have the item she seeks, so I bid her farewell
(here's a query - howcome the Golden Company, who appear to be Western knights, want an oriental war fan? Anyway.)
My allies at my side I advance to the battlerealm to defeat the Dai-Oni and his own celestial companions in battle. Some startlingly good guesswork here leads me to match my tiger against the demonic toad and the Tatsu against the Mantis demon for two flawless victories. Finally I elect to send the knights against the colossal statue for 3/3 wins. I still have the Ki-Rin ally available to I send it against the Dai-Oni and it weakens him - I'm really glad it does, because even weakened it's a difficult opponent and I finish the battle on a meagre 5 stamina.
Taking a moment to give thanks to the spirits who aided me, I then confront the defeated Dai-Oni who offers to answer a single question. I ask for the secret of the sword, as the Shogun said I would need it, and it is duly given. It then seems a demonic double-cross in on the cards as a spirit begins to form out of the demons body, but recalling the words of the Tatsu earlier I quickly speak the invocation it gave me and the Jizo of Demons appears and blitzes the demon to ash. I don't really understand what happened here but hurray!

Hurridly consuming the remains of my provisions, I watch in shock as the walls of the celestial arena shimmer and fade, revealing the dark halls of Ikiru, Master of Shadows. He has the sword Singing Death, but I know from the demon that he lacks the pure spirit to use it. Laughing contemptously I speak the words of truth and the sword flies to my hand, boosting my initial stats to crazy levels!

With the sword mine, I feel unstoppable. Ikiru summons a shadow demon, but I cleave through it with a single blow of my sword. Next he summons demonic legions, but I push through them as though they are smoke, dismissing them with the swords power. Finally Ikiru himself stands before me. He hurls dark magic at me, but my honour is such that it harmlessly vanishes against my person. Ikiru himself is a SKILL 12 STAMINA 12 opponent, but my skill now outranks his, and a single hit, combined with a successful luck check, is enough to banish him to the dark realms whence he came. It only remains to take the sword back to my master the Shogun and once again bring tranquility to his lands.VICTORY!

As per you guys I loved this book. It's definitely a Smith & Thomson work with the Japanese themes and monsters, vivid writing, scene-setting description sprinkled about, interesting concepts for battles and some brutally hard fights and deaths. The hub where you can recruit celestial allies and then match them against the villainous team in a sort of heavenly deathmatch is superb and I agree that it would have been a fine ending for the book. Absolutely beautiful art from Alan Langford, knocks his stuff on IotLK out of the park.
If I had to critique, there's some very tough fights - I'd say Skill 10 is the minimum needed - and there's a few fights where the enemies are stuff like Skill 7 Stamina 20 which means they go one for ages, even with high skill. That's a nitpick though and I'd say this very much rests within the top echelons of the FF books I've played.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 October, 2022, 11:34:06 AM
Great write-ups there! I'm glad people liked Sword of the Samurai.

Apparently the same authors did a series of science fiction gamebooks called Falcon, does anyone know if they're good? The fourth in the series has a bit set on Orb (by way of visiting a parallel universe).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 October, 2022, 01:17:27 PM
Funnily enough I've got one of the Falcon books (not the 4th one) here and was thinking of playing it after Demons of the Deep. I read some reviews and it sounds like as a series it's a bit uneven, but I've got a really high opinion of the authors as a gamebook-writing duo so...

It's got some incredible art from Geoff Senior including one of some tentacles gorily exploding out someone. Insane art for a kids book.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 October, 2022, 02:00:30 PM
I love Geoff Senior's work, it would be great if Tharg got him back in the prog. (His work for 2000AD was before he hit his stride.)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 October, 2022, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 October, 2022, 01:17:27 PM
Funnily enough I've got one of the Falcon books (not the 4th one) here and was thinking of playing it after Demons of the Deep. I read some reviews and it sounds like as a series it's a bit uneven, but I've got a really high opinion of the authors as a gamebook-writing duo so...

It's got some incredible art from Geoff Senior including one of some tentacles gorily exploding out someone. Insane art for a kids book.

I enjoyed the Falcon series at the time. My lack of knowledge of dangerous plants led me to a sticky end, though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 October, 2022, 04:02:16 PM
What the hell! Bought.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 October, 2022, 12:16:08 PM
Which one did you get?
I didn't especially enjoy my first go at DotD so I might play Falcon instead and then go back to it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 October, 2022, 02:47:40 PM
The fourth one, Lost in Time.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 October, 2022, 02:56:45 PM
FALCON 3: THE RACK OF BAAL

I got this in a job lot off ebay and after Richard mentioned these, decided to give it a go.
The premise of the book is that I am a sort of timecop - special agent Falcon of TIME (Temporal Investigative & Monitoring Executive) responsible for keeping time safe in a future era where time travel has been discovered. There is a super extensive background, with diagrams of my gear and a lengthy, cool history of the setting and what happened in books 1 and 2. The plot for this one is that Baal, who is some kind of interdimensional villain from the distant past, has been freed from his Superman 2-esque prison (The Rack) and is loose in time. I need to track down the four parts to stop Baal before he can take over the galaxy or end history.

I'm offered the choice of four locations to visit initially: Aztec Earth, American Civil War Earth, the alien planet Rigel Prime, or the Earth colony on a planet called Dustbowl. I initially try the primitive plant of Rigel Prime, but it is a bust: instead I go for Aztec Earth and arrive in the midst of a bloody mass sacrifice of prisoners to the Sun God. Using my psychic powers I gain entry to the pyramid and discover one of the racks on an altar. There's a neat little floor puzzle with a visual clue, but as I acquire the rack Baal himself busts through the wall like a demonic 20ft tall superman. I run away and he chases me through the streets, collapsing buildings as we trade shots at each other until a random roll kills me off.

It seems like my city-levelling battle with Baal probably isn't the way to go in terms of not damaging the timeline so when I restart I choose to visit Dustbowl instead. Here, when I land I find a suspicious fellow scanning my disguised timeship. I follow him to a secret underground lair to find some kind of cult of Baal - Baal's avatar manifests as a giant fly and gruesomely sucks the entrails out of a hapless captive before detecting me! Again I run away: I feel I shouldn't be using my blaster to gun down pursuers so I utilise my Thinkstrike to stun them and reach my ship where the fly confronts me. No issue with using my blaster here: I burn it to a crisp and flee back into the timeline. I've escaped, and it seems Baal has been here, but no part of the Rack was in evidence.

Next I head to 1863 Earth, where at the battle of Gettysburg I encounter another TIME agent: Lynx, who asks my help capturing Yelov, who is the bad guy from books 1 and 2. I try to assist and end up getting caught up in the battle: Lynx prevents Yelov's attempt to altar the course of the civil war, but I am wounded by a musket ball and fail to capture Yelov himself: he escapes.
Seems my best bet now is to go back to the Aztec zone, as the book asks me if this is the third or more timehole I have visited. This time things are very different - Baal himself manifests over the sacrificial altar and the Aztecs, believing him to be a god, fall in worship and he begins to feed off the life force of the sacrificial victims. Baal sucks!
I'm given the option of taking Baal on, but this seems unwise so I follow my previous path and nip backstage, navigate the floor puzzle trap: Baal busts in and I leg it. I actually died here again due to a random die roll but decided to reroll it, got to the time machine, which Ball picks up and throws about but I'm able to escape. The computer tells me that although Baal and I have damaged the rules of time with our battle, these Aztecs were wiped out soon anyway and the timeline is not wrecked. Phew!

One part of the rack in the bag and I get an update from Agent Bloodhound: someone or something has been to Dustbowl and caused a major disturbance in the winds of time, and we have another timehole opened up on Planet Cave: Agent Kingfisher was sent to investigate but we've lost contact and he is feared dead. I decide to head to Cave - a highly advanced planet in my time, but at the time of my visit, pretty much prehistoric with the natives operating somewhat like ants, with a caste structure and a brood mother, although they appear mammalian and not insects. When I arrive I find there's a civil war in progress there, and one set of the natives (Cave-ians?) seem to be armed with laser weapons - and in thrall to the 'Baal-Mother'. Erk! I infiltrate the Baal-loyal rebels tunnels and discover the horrible spongey mass that is a mother - and stacks of advanced technology that really shouldn't be around in a culture that has yet to invent the wheel. There's also part of the rack here, which I go to filch, and am immediately detected by Baal in the form of the brood queen. Again I fail a random roll and he psychically paralyzes me whilst the natives slice me up.

I'm fed up with random deaths, so I reroll, pass, steal the rack part and then use my psychic powers to direct the weak-willed natives against the Baal-mother, who dissolves under their attacks and turns out to be Baal himself. Cue another narrow escape whilst Baal is dealing with the furious Cave dwellers and I'm now back to Dustbowl with two parts of the rack in my possession.

I materialise on Dustbowl by the great Dust Sea, away from the habitation areas where I might encounter the priests of Baal again. Here I can detect a segment of the rack buried deep in the dust sea: I will need a battlesuit to get that deep into the dust, so after gearing up and disguising my ship as a diving bell, I resolve to hire someone to take me into the sea so I can retrieve my prize. Baal's priests are onto me and there are a couple of attempts on my life but before long I'm deep in the dust and collecting rack part 3. There's an encounter with a Dust Whale - essentially something best described as a sharktopus - but I remember what I've been told about these creatures and am able to scare it off. Fragment 3 in the bag!

The three rack fragments combined show me the location of the fourth - a frozen mineral-rich asteroid called Chill. My computer here notes that there is a five-man mining operation there and that one of them has connections to my grandparents, so I need to take care.
At this point the book turns into a full-on homage to The Thing. The miners have discovered the final rack fragment, along with some kind of leathery egg. The egg hatches and the creature within absorbs one of the crew, which attempts to kill me but is burnt when the rest of the station crew come to my aid. We soon discover that the radio and stores have been destroyed: there must be another 'Thing' amongst us. With paranoia growing, I am able to identify the creature due to an error it has made with the copy, but it flees. Obviously we immediately split up and I head down into the mine to get at the last segment of the rack where I encounter the now huge creature, a disgusting, mutating thing, and barely escape with my life. A third crewman is killed fighting the creature: we burn the thing from the mine, only to discover that another has been absorbed and fled into the icy wastes around the station, leading to a deadly bit of cat and mouse in the snow. I haven't gone into too much detail here in case anyone else plays this, but this bit is excellent: lots of grim descriptions and callbacks to The Thing with the icy environment, severed limbs growing insect legs to escape and one of the characters is even called McCready.

With all four segments of the rack, they combine to guide me a mysterious asteroid. I easily gain entrance and find Baal himself, sitting on a giant throne. As he marshals his powers and minions I fling the rack at him and it immediately captures him and teleports him away into a new cosmic prison. Anti-climatic victory! Time is safe and I am promoted to Section Chief! THE END.




Bit of a mixed bag this book. Random rolls killing me wasn't a great experience: what didn't help here was that starting with book 3 I had zero modifiers to any of my stats. I know from the WotT and Freeway Warrior playthroughs that playing them in order and carrying stat bonuses over is a HUGE help and it probably made this harder than it should have been (the latter FW books I'd imagine are not possible without having the boosted stats completing the first ones give you)

The art is absolutely superb from Geoff Senior and several of the illustrations are very cool / grim for a kids book - sand monsters, guys getting their entrails drained by fly demons or absorbed by The Thing... I loved it. Check out these from the chill segment:

(https://i.imgur.com/tNwmdXX.jpg)   (https://i.imgur.com/OVaEZHX.jpg)

FUCKING AWESOME!

In contrast the cover is awful: Baal is depicted blasting his way into reality but actually ends up looking utterly stupid with big pointy ears, a Dr Strange collar, bondage straps and the readers point of view looking right up his nose, whilst the rack elements on his wrists look like cheap jewelry rather than mystical artifacts. In fairness the design of Baal himself is not the finest as he looks like a 60s era Marvel supervillain with a vague vampire gimmick.

There were a couple of bugs in the book, with paragraphs directing me to blatantly the wrong place: The first, in the Aztec temple, I was eventually able to sort one of these with a bit of mucking about on Google that led me to an obscure Way of the Tiger Facebook group with Jamie Thomson in it. The second one, on Chill, I couldn't figure out and had to backtrack from one route (using a flamethrower) to another (using my psychic powers) to escape the creature, taking more damage in the process.

All the negatives out the way, I enjoyed the plot itself and the time travel element. Each node was quite small with limited choices, but there was a lot to do, and the book moved quite quickly so that never felt like an issue. As with the authors other work it was very well written, the book rewarded thoughtful choices rather than random ones, and items tended to make things easier / harder rather than auto-death if you hadn't picked something up. I felt the book seemed a bit more lightweight than WotT but never felt childish or like it was talking down, and as I say the art is great.

I'd like to try another, but with 50-odd FF books now in the house it'd be wise for me not to start buying anymore old books just yet....
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 10 October, 2022, 03:34:05 PM
That sounds involved! I really like the idea of different 'nodes', although I guess you've already touched on that necessarily making each one feel pretty short compared to a full-length adventure.

Still, nice when a gamebook tries to innovate. I'll post my Demons of the Deep playthrough soon, which... doesn't.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 October, 2022, 03:57:40 PM
Yeah! Whilst mechanically there wasn't much to do at each, each one felt quite involved and different to the other, and there were different events at the Aztec and Dustbowl nodes depending on at which point I went, and in Dustbowl's case, if I'd been there twice. I think it was nicely designed and quite innovative. I always like a book that doesn't have an exact true path, too.
A couple of the nodes were red herrings - the Civil War one for example, has no bearing on the Baal plot.

I played Demons of the Deep last week and didn't enjoy it much. It sounds like you didn't either.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 October, 2022, 10:10:13 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 October, 2022, 03:57:40 PM
I played Demons of the Deep last week and didn't enjoy it much. It sounds like you didn't either.

You can find out right now, as I play... Demons of the Deep!

A completely new one for me, so I'm going in fresh. No special rules to speak of; no more Potions, though (sorry, Funt!) And no more pre-amble to write, except to tell you that I roll up a character of  Skill 11, Stamina 19 and Luck 9...

The Playthrough
...What can I do for you, stranger? If one of those tankards is for me, you're welcome to sit down. Ah. You want to know about the Troll. Pointed me out to you, did they? Said you'd get a good laugh if you got me talking about that day? Well, can't hardly blame 'em. I don't expect you to believe me neither, but long as you're willing to buy the ales then I don't mind telling you. Just have a little respect, and bear in mind that a lot of good mates died that day – that's something that nobody disputes...

So there I was. My poor Sunfish a blazing wreck, taking my murdered crew down to Hell with it. And that spawn-of-a-Seahag Captain Bloodaxe making me watch from the deck of the Troll, with his pirates jeering all around me. There was some debate about what to do with me. Then comes me 'rewards', for putting on such a brave show of defiance – me sword, and a sack of provisions. A heavy sack. And then me freedom, delivered by way of Bloodaxe's boot – over the gun'els, down into the brine. Just another kind of death, really, see? Me hands tied behind me, sword an' satchel dragging me into the depths like a stone. That's pirate mercy for you.

So I says me prayers, o'course, and makes me peace with the deities I keeps – no, I'll not tell you that much, a man's own gods aren't to be bandied about in tavern-talk. And then what d'you know? I see I'm drifting down right into the middle of a stately courtyard, and the spires of coral all around ain't coral at all, but a sunken city! Lines of light blaze all around soon as me boots touch the bottom – the whole courtyard was a magical pentacle, or I'm a Snattacat's uncle. I know it was, for that's what the mermaid telt me.  Aye, a mermaid – you heard me right. Welcome to the lost city of Atlantis, she says. The pentacle's given me the power to breathe underwater, she says, but the spell will only last til day's end. And if I wants to get me revenge 'gainst Bloodaxe, I'd best be collectin' black pearls, and be sharp about it. I know, I know – t'were as clumsy an infodump as I've ever heard in all my years at sea, but you wouldn't have minded either, to have it delivered by such a winsome guide. What's that? Aye, she had charms enough – a Luck charm, which she give me as freely as kiss-your-hand. Oh, I know what charms you meant, right enough, but this ain't that kind o' story, stranger. Go see Saucy Sadie after, if that's how your lights lie.

(https://i.imgur.com/l8JjhNQ.jpg)

So I swims about a bit, testing out me new sea-legs, so to speak, and puts a nest of three BARRACUDA to the sword. Then what d'you think I find? Two SKELETONS o' buccaneers past – not at rest like they should be, oh no, but comin' at me wi' rusted cutlasses upraised. One of 'em has black pearls for eyes, so that's two in the bag already. Next come a MORAY EEL (altogether now ...'when an eel has a maw with pharyngeal jaw, that's a moray; when it sulks in a reef and has two sets of teeth, that's a moray'...) Ahem. I explores a ship wreck, and wanders around an underwater gardens. I comes a cropper when I sticks me hand into a coral fountain for a gold coin – a bastard scorpion fish stings me hand so badly that I lose two points o' me Initial Skill! Hnh. There's probably a moral there about greed, or something. It weren't one I learnt any time soon, stranger, I tell you that much for nothin'!

It's while I'm in the gardens that I sees a twee little cottage, existing inside a gigantic air bubble. Ever seen Spongebob Squarepants? No, me neither, don't know why I brought it up. Well, there ain't no squirrels inside, just an old hippy type called Greylock. He's a friendly but cagey wizard, who tells me a lot without actually givin' too much away. He does explain the purpose of the black pearls, at least – says as how they summon skeleton warriors, who'll fight under the command of the caster. Ha! Gird yer loins, Bloodaxe! Retribution's a-comin'!

(https://i.imgur.com/Hafrm7N.jpg)

When he opens the cottage door for me to leave, we ain't looking out on the gardens, but a long tunnel o' seaweed. Trying to shake off me disorientation, I thank Sandy Cheeks Greylock and swim off down it. I soon bumps into a merman, who says as how I should make use o' their famous Sauna Baths. They'll make a new man of me, he says. Perhaps I can claw back a Skill point or two, thinks I. Little do I know...! So I sits, and I steams, and it does me a rare power o' good. When I leave, I've literally been made a new man of – to the extent o' re-rollin' all three o' my initial scores...! True as I sits here, stranger. The Dice Gods were good that day, an' favoured me with a Skill o' 12 and Stamina o' 23! Me Initial Luck goes from 9 to 7, so it ain't all good, but... I'd like to meet the Hero who could ever boast of a score so high.

The merfolk won't let me go without offering advice. If I feels very brave and lucky, I should visit the Sea Dragon; for information, I should visit the Sunken Cathedral; and for good fortune, the Water Sprite. Well, if I'm going to need luck to visit the Dragon – thinks I – then I'd better visit the Water Sprite first. So I follows their directions to a dark chasm, with a glow deep at the bottom. I swims down to the cave opening, where a shadow looms across the entrance... Bah! I'm promptly coshed by a bloody SEA OGRE, and thrown into his deep-sea larder for when he gets hungry later. (I never did find out if the merfolk sent me there a-purpose, or if it were an honest mistake). Anyways, I decides to goad the Ogre – asking if he's scared to face me in a fair fight. Luckily, this lad has a short fuse, and he soon comes roaring into the cell to settle the matter. He's got a fairly impressive Stamina of 18, but the recent boost to me own stats makes me fairly untouchable, and the bastard soon goes down. The dead ogre has a ring, which I slips on my own finger – and gains another +2 to me Initial Stamina, taking me up to 25! No, sit down, sit down, it's true...!

(https://i.imgur.com/q1LgLrs.jpg?1)

Swimming around a bit leads me to fight two GIANT CRABS, followed by a whole mess o' normal CRABS. And then I finds myself in the presence of the SEA DRAGON... (I ain't sure how, but I'd obviously well and truly missed the Water Sprite at this point). Well, there's only one way I knows of to treat with a dragon, and that's to appeal to its greed, see? Bowing humbly, I offers it all the plunder it can carry (an' all the pirates it can eat) if it'll come to me aid when I finds the Troll. It deliberates from atop its treasure hoard, and then loftily agrees, telling me how to summon it at the appropriate time. Imagine that, hey? A pet Sea Dragon hidden up yer sleeve! How's that fer an ally?

Next I stumbles across the Sunken Cathedral. It's a vast gothic edifice, a-crawling wi' gargoyles, but I can't seem to looks at anything but the stained-glass windows. None of the windows move, but they're different every single time I looks at 'em – one shows me, being thrown overboard by Bloodaxe's men; another has me fighting for my life against gigantic tentacles. One of the picture-windows is of a very dandy swordfish with a rapier in hand (or fin). To me alarm, there's a whoosing sound, and suddenly I'm in the window... That's right, stood in a cathedral on the seabed one minute, then floatin' around in an empty void outside o' time and space with a cavalier swordfish. No, don't go! Sit, sit. It's true as anything else I've told you, though don't think I don't know how it sounds.

(https://i.imgur.com/9lXn0CS.jpg)

Cyrano, as he's called, offers to give me a fencing lesson for the price o' either two gold pieces or one black pearl. I don't feel I can afford to part with a pearl, but I'm happy to cross his flippers with gold. He lands one hit on me, but with me monster Skill value I'm the first to get the required three hits in. For me proficiency, Cyrano gifts me +1 to my Initial Skill. That's right, stranger – I was on Skill 13! I was! Cyrano stamps his foot and I'm suddenly in open ocean again, among a patch o' wooden wreckage. Let me tell you, disorientation's a way of life, down there. I'm mugged by a gaggle of octopi before I can gets away from their clutches, and then blunders straight into big brother... the KRAKEN of legend, haunter of the nightmares of every seaman afloat on Titan. If I thought the Sea Ogre was tough, it's time for a rude awakening – the Kraken has a Skill of 10, but a colossal Stamina of 30! Me Skill of 13 stands me in good stead, though, and the bugger's got such a job to try and scratch me it fair ties its own tentacles in knots. I whittles away at it little by little, until I realises the immense tentacles are hanging lifeless in the water, just a-drifting with the current. If nothing else, stranger, I did that. Countless luckless mariners avenged. They can mock me all they like, but I know what I did.

(https://i.imgur.com/YL0IfEW.jpg?1)

The sea around me takes on a deep, reddish hue, and I realise that it ain't just the blood o' the mighty Kraken – sunset's coming to the world above, and the spell that lets me breathe underwater'll soon wear off. Do I have an unmelting ice crystal, I am asked? I do not. Do I know the name of a friendly dolphin? I do not. And so there ain't much to do but kick for the surface. I breaks water a few minutes afore the sun sets, clings to a handy piece of floating board, and... well, that's it. Nothing to do but wait for rescue. Certainly weren't the first time I'd been shipwrecked. Weren't the last, neither. But I never found out where the pirates were hiding, and so that were the end of the adventure. Never did call the Sea Dragon; never saw Bloodaxe again. Aye, I'll grant it's a trifle anticlimactic – but don't you think, if I'd made the whole thing up, I've have seen fit to give it a better ending...?

The Verdict
[/sailorspeak] Ahem. You know how, occasionally, some of these books feel more overtly for a younger audience than others? This is very much one of those. The bizarre Cyrano the swordfish is a highlight, but he absolutely feels like something out of a book of fairy tales for little 'uns. All the things I fought – with the possible exception of the Sea Ogre – felt quite PG13, come to that; mostly they were just various kinds of sealife. And Earth-based sealife, at that! All very weak in terms of imagination and worldbuilding. And, for that matter... Atlantis? Really?

I like the unique way the adventure begins begins, and that it has multiple possible endings, like the author's Scorpion Swamp, but the narrative is aimless in the extreme – you're just drifting vaguely about, hoping to bump into someone or something useful. I had fun – let's face it, I'll probably never have a higher Skill/Stamina combo! – but I can't see myself playing this one again in a hurry. 6 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 October, 2022, 10:17:52 AM
Apologies for the dubious quality of the images from here on in. It's gotten really hard to find images online after the first fifteen or so FF books (billions of playthroughs of Firetop Mountain and Deathtrap Dungeon, then interest starts tailing off - as evidenced in this very thread!) I'm now having to scan direct from the books myself.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 October, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
Great writeup and I very much dig the manner of its telling. I'm a few years into a tabletop pirate campaign so I've been writing letters, diarys, poems, dialogue etc in pirate for a while and I'm totally into it.

My playthrough of this book was identical apart from the Sprite / Ogre / Dragon bit - on my edition going to see the sprite took me to an incorrect paragraph, so I went straight to the cathedral instead.
I felt pretty much the same as you did here... the book was quite basic. I really liked the concept, but it didn't really pan out into anything that interesting and a lot of the encounters seemed weirdly tacked together and uninteresting. It all felt quite tame and safe and very aimless.

I'm going to try again as I very much want to encounter the bone thing on the cover - it's one of my favourite FF covers.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 October, 2022, 11:53:44 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 October, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
it's one of my favourite FF covers.

Here's a question to anyone still reading this thread. Top three FF book cover artworks?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 11 October, 2022, 11:59:47 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 October, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
Great writeup and I very much dig the manner of its telling. I'm a few years into a tabletop pirate campaign so I've been writing letters, diarys, poems, dialogue etc in pirate for a while and I'm totally into it.

I had more fun writing this one up than I did playing it! 😄
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 11 October, 2022, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 October, 2022, 11:53:44 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 October, 2022, 11:52:45 AM
it's one of my favourite FF covers.

Here's a question to anyone still reading this thread. Top three FF book cover artworks?

For the Number One spot and for pure nostalgia I'd go with Forest of Doom myself. I got it for my 13th birthday, having never encountered FF, or even fantasy gaming of any sort before. The beckoning finger on the cover lured me into a genre that dominated my early teens.
For numbers two and three? Anything else by Iain McCaig, I suppose. I moved on from FF soon after Deathtrap Dungeon, but that one was, as the Times Literary Supplement had it, the tits.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 October, 2022, 03:06:27 PM
That's a great write-up! And very piratey! Can't wait for you to review Bloodbones!

On my favourite FF covers, I'd have to agree that the first edition Forest of Doom by McCaig is a classic. I also like his Bloodbeast on Deathtrap Dungeon. And the woman in the spiky armour on FF25, Beneath Nightmare Castle.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 12 October, 2022, 11:56:40 AM
Right. I have replayed DotD, and in an effort to not be upstaged by Jimbo, I present to you:

THE DEMONS OF THE DEEP
(A tale containing no demons, lest ye consider the wwatery denizens of the depths to be such)

Gather ye round, for a tale I've to tell
It's starts with the Sunfish smashed all to hell
Bloodaxe of the Troll had me captured, and well
It looked pretty bad for me, my boys
But the pirates, they fancied some sport

So they took some provisions and filled up a sack
Strapped that and my swordblade right onto my back
To the end of the plank, then they gave me a whack
And right down to the depths did I plunge, my boys
To Davy Jones locker, or worse

But what a surprise! I could breathe underwater!
A mermaid I met, hotter than a king's daughter
I resolved for revenge for old Bloodaxes' slaughter
Get ye black pearls to do that, said she, my boys
With ne'r a reason to why

Barracuda and skeletons quickly I slew
Collected black pearls, numbering two
I battled a grouper, and helped a ghost too
Gathered his bones I did, my boys
And he gave me a potion as thanks

Next came to a crypt, where I claimed a jade crown
(A living statue attacked me, but was quickly put down)
On my head it went, then into the sunken town
Swam I till I found a dolphin, my boys
And it chatted to me about fish

Yes, thanks to the crown, to the fish I could chat!
Though only the dolphin did bother with that
It's topics of conversation fell somewhat flat
Till we ganged up to battle a shark, my boys
And as a reward, it told me its name

Now you might think that reward was quite crap
But it took me off to a ship too, where I read a map
A clam and a spider they failed in their trap
I slew them both with ease, my boys
And left the sea red with their blood

Next was a sight that surprised even me
Who'd have thought gardens grew under the sea?
I hid from a lionfish up a tall tree
The lionfish couldn't swim up, my boys
I know, that bit didn't make sense

I met Greylock, a sage rather nice
He lived in those gardens, and gave me advice
He taught me a spell, with words quite precise
The spell was to raise up the dead, my boys
Skeletal legions, from the black pearls

"The Sea Dragon's the fellow, if more pearls you want"
So I gives my thanks and swims off, nonchalant
A merman I met, but we had a detente
Gambled with him did I for black pearls, my boys
The mermaids charm guaranteed me to win

So now black pearls I had numbering four
And I knew the Sea Dragon had a lot more
The mermen showed me the path to his door
I spoke to that dragon respectful, my boys
Yet he didn't give me one pearl

So needing to bolster my black pearl supply
To a sunken cathedral next visited I
Now this next bit is true, no word of a lie
For fencing lessons I took, my boys
From a man with the head of a fish

This fish headed fellow, Cyrano his name
Being the best swordsman was Cyrano's game
And he had the chops to back up his claim
For he easily beat me at swords, my boys
But I learned very much in defeat

The next part of my tale concerns mainly squid
Some little ones into my backpack had slid
Eaten up some of my food, they did
But I had greater squid problems to come, my boys
As I swam up to a coral reef

For by that reef I encountered a beast
Of incredible horror - the KRAKEN released!
Such a monster could make me quite quickly deceased
So I swam to the coral and hid, my boys
And the Kraken raged on outside

Eventually I had no choice but to fight
Dodging tentacles and it's krakeny bite
The battle was long, but I triumphed all right
I slew that beast in the end, my boys
And then I ate all the food I had left

On the kraken's remains I found three pearls black
But I knew it was now time for me to head back
The spell grew weak, and soon I would lack
The means to breathe underwater, my boys
For the magic, it lasted only one day

I swam to the surface and pondered my lot
Had I a crystal of ice? I did not
But the dolphins name I had not forgot
I called for him and he appeared, my boys
"I'll take you wherever you wish"

"To Captain Bloodaxes Island!" I cried
"I'm afraid that's a service I cannot provide
For no island exists on the sea far and wide
So he took me back home instead, my boys
Back to Blacksand on his back

So comes the end of my story so swish
Born into the harbor, riding a fish
I survived and I won, although I dearly do wish
That I'd had my revenge on Bloodaxe, my boys
And maybe one day, I shall.

SECRET ALTERNATE ENDING

What if instead, to the dolphin I'd said
Another destination from the map I'd read
To the pirates island my path would have led
Where the Troll sat an anchor, my boys
All ready for bloody revenge

I swam to the ship and climbed onto the deck
The pirates were there who I had sworn to wreck
"Bloodaxe, you shall get it in the neck"
So I cast my pearls down on the ground, my boys
And up sprung three skeletons there

The pirates they didn't know what to think
Some jumped over the side and into the drink
Others from the skeletal blades they did shrink
The skeletons cut the down, my boys
Till only Bloodaxe was left

Bloodaxe smashed the skeletons all into pieces
Battle was joined: my stamina, it decreases!
But with my great skill, the fight it soon ceases
Revenge for my crewmates and ship, my boys
Revenge so sweet at last

"You bastard" moaned Bloodaxe, and then he fell slain
Good sailors he would never murder again
I was pretty beat up and in lots of pain
But the ship, now it was mine, my boys
And the holds stuffed full of treasure too

Now I have mixed thoughts upon this book
The multiple endings were well worth a look
And far arduous quests have I undertook
But it was all a bit easy to finish, my boys
And the story felt aimless and weird

I suppose to get the best ending the goal
But I'd rather not play it again as a whole
And writing this poem has taken its toll
Though I STILL didn't battle the demon, my boys
That thing all so cool on the cover

So I'll file note that this FF book's merely 'alright'
And back into my bookcase it goes out of sight
That's twenty books done and discussed on this site!
Trial of Champions next, my boys
A book too bloody hard to complete!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 12 October, 2022, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 12 October, 2022, 11:56:40 AM
Now I have mixed thoughts upon this book
The multiple endings were well worth a look
And far arduous quests have I undertook
But it was all a bit easy to finish, my boys
And the story felt aimless and weird

I suppose to get the best ending the goal
But I'd rather not play it again as a whole
And writing this poem has taken its toll
Though I STILL didn't battle the demon, my boys
That thing all so cool on the cover

Brilliant! Many kudos points on delivering not only the playthrough but the verdict in rhyme, as well!

Yep, not one I think I'll ever revisit, but it wasn't bad per se - just a bit too content to drift along with the tide rather than take us down some white water rapids.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 12 October, 2022, 01:23:09 PM
Blimey, that write-up took some dedication!

You two are putting the rest of us to shame!

I remember that Trial of Champions is literally impossible because you never get any provisions, so you just keep slogging through it until your stamina drains away. But I'll give it a go anyway. It's got quite a cool revenge plot.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 15 October, 2022, 07:12:51 PM
But first...

Falcon 4: Lost in Time

My mission is to be the first person to time travel into the future, which has never been done before. I successfully travel to the year 4000, where Earth appears to have been overrun by giant insects, one of which seriously injured me and I have to reduce all of my modifiers by 1. This seemed serious at the time, although now that I have finished the book I now know that it hardly mattered because there are so few dice rolls in this adventure. What has happened in the future and why there are giant insects everywhere is not explained or referred to again, which is weird, but never mind. That bit is brief, and the real story gets under way when my time machine can't find its way home again.

I only have enough fuel for five more time jumps. My machine can also travel to other planets as well as times, and I'm given a choice of four destinations, none of which are home, from which I can try to find my way home, and also to possibly find things that might help me. One of these worlds turns out to be Orb, of the Way of the Tiger books. I have no information about what the inhabitants of this world are wearing, so I have to guess what disguise to wear, but based on my knowledge of the WotT books I go with a knight's armour. (This has the advantage of making me inconspicuous, but from later reading the bits I missed on my pleythrough, the alternative outfits had their own advantages.) I get killed a couple of times, it's a very dangerous place! I'm turned into stone by a cockatrice and stabbed to death twice. My advice on surviving Orb is trust nobody!

My next time jump appears to take me home, but something is not quite right... I'm in the right year, but a parallel timeline! What's even worse is that it's a timeline where my side are the baddies, like the Star Trek episode "Mirror Mirror." I have to kill my counterpart in that universe (in the second attempt, after we killed each other) and escape back into the time stream.

I end up in another parallel universe in which almost the whole population of Earth have been wiped out by invading aliens, the result of my character in this timeline having failed to complete his mission in the first Falcon book. For some reason I go out exploring and I'm killed again there, before finding my way back to my time machine and escaping to an alien planet, where I find more fuel for my vessel but also run into my archenemy (a character from a previous book, but not Baal from book 3). He spends the rest of the book chasing me through time to get his revenge. On one playthrough I escape to America in 1866, where he kills me, and on the next go I flee to some other alien planet where I manage to save a primitive society from a disembodied brain that thinks it's their god. (I also meet the woman on the front cover in this bit, and my pursuer loses my trail.)

The final location is in 10,000 BC in what turns out to be Atlantis before it was destroyed. I'm also marooned here, since my time machine has run out of fuel. But I manage to freeze myself in stasis, using alien tech that was left here by a super advanced race, and wake up in my own time and universe!

This was a reasonably entertaining book, although I don't think I'm going to check out the others in this series. There was a wide range of locations and interesting encounters though. There is no real combat except for single win/lose dice rolls, and not many of those.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 15 October, 2022, 07:30:08 PM
Those books sound absolutely bonkers.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 October, 2022, 09:43:00 AM
Quote from: Richard on 12 October, 2022, 01:23:09 PM
Blimey, that write-up took some dedication!

Thanks guys! It did make my second playthrough more fun.
I thought the book was a pretty imaginative concept, but it really lacked any kind of narrative so it did feel a lot like just wandering about. Having multiple endings is a nice touch, but the book wasn't fun enough to want to replay it again.

Quote from: Richard on 15 October, 2022, 07:12:51 PM
But first...

Falcon 4: Lost in Time

A very enjoyable read, this! I'd quite like to give this series a look from book 1, but I'm not sure how affordable they are.

Been thinking about my top 3 FF covers. I also think Forest of Doom and Deathtrap Dungeon are the best, but to avoid having almost the same picks as everyone else I think my next favourite three would be:

Island of the Lizard King
Appointment with FEAR
Demons of the Deep

I really like Space Assassin and Nightmare Castle as well.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 October, 2022, 09:46:30 AM
If you DM me your address I'll send you my Falcon 4.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 October, 2022, 10:42:38 AM
That'd be amazing, thank you!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 17 October, 2022, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 17 October, 2022, 09:43:00 AM
Been thinking about my top 3 FF covers. I also think Forest of Doom and Deathtrap Dungeon are the best, but to avoid having almost the same picks as everyone else I think my next favourite three would be:

Island of the Lizard King
Appointment with FEAR
Demons of the Deep

I think I'd have to put Island of the Lizard King  in there, as well. So simple but so sublimely executed, it made the titular character himself a huge disappointment when you finally met him in-book!

I know everyone else has picked Deathtrap Dungeon, but damn.... it really is that good.

And for a third? Think I'll go for Legend of the Shadow Warriors. I spent a long time as a wee 'un staring at that cover, at the exquisitely executed raindrops running down the pumpkins. Like IotLK, it prompted a bit of dissapointment when you actually played the book and realised the pumpkin-headed chaps were not the titular Shadow Warriors!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2022, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 October, 2022, 11:12:03 AM
I think I'd have to put Island of the Lizard King  in there, as well. So simple but so sublimely executed, it made the titular character himself a huge disappointment when you finally met him in-book!

100% this! It's such a cool cover, and the LK himself is... not good.

Anyway -

TRIAL OF CHAMPIONS - a non-writeup

I, Lord Carnuss, have a plan. My miserable brother Sukumvit has redesigned his so called 'Deathtrap Dungeon' after the humiliation of its recent resolution - he claims it to be vastly improved (surely by this he means more tiresome) - although I cannot think of anything more dreary, his hubris over this tawdry little deathtrap is so bloated, so it pleases me to be the one to unlock it. Not personally of course! Instead I will sponsor some hapless fool to enter the dungeon and claim victory on my behalf. The look on Sukumvit's face will be beyond price when my champion solves his little labyrinth - and taking 20,000 gold pieces from his purse to mine into the bargain will just sweeten the moment.

How to choose such a champion? I have decided not to pick one from amongst my own soldiers, or hire a capable sort, like some lesser dullard might conceive to do . Instead it occurred to me at first to hold some kind of gladiatorial contest - what a joy it would be to select my champion in such a way, and what entertainments to be had in watching the games. I considered inviting the best warriors in all of Titan to compete, but this idea proved wearisome so instead I have requested 42 slaves, captured completely at random and likely totally unsuitable to the task be thrown into the arena to compete in a number of nonsensical tasks. I am sure this will be the best way to pick someone best suited to dealing with Sukumvit's dungeon.

Needless to say, this did not work.


This book is brutal. About to try again with max stats, but even then I'm not confident. Skill 10 is the absolute minimum to handle the combats thrown at you right from the start, and there is very little healing in the dungeon itself so death by stamina attrition is very likely, assuming you avoid the various traps - my second playthrough I was killed by opening a door. No test your luck or clever warning, just do you want to open this door? You do? You're dead. Sukumvit not mucking about!

The gladiatorial bit at the start is quite an evocative way to open and it's quite an insight into the cruelty of Carnuss, although it's totally insane that he should choose his representative like this, let alone not bother to give them any provisions or potions as they head into the dungeon. It's also very linear and if you're doing multiple plays, probably not worth bothering with as you get all your stamina back before the dungeon proper (although not your luck)

I remember being quite a fan of this one back in 1986 or 1987, when I probably cheated on all the combats - I really liked the trial element, and then the return to DD. This time around it's hard not to compare it to DD itself, where it's a bit less atmospheric or cool yet still fiendishly difficult, but it's still quite an interesting puzzle to tackle. I haven't even got to the end point yet, but I understand the true path is extremely tight with very little possible variation, so we'll see if I get sick of it before I can finish it.

Writeup if I actually get somewhere!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 19 October, 2022, 11:47:24 AM
I suspect I came to many of the same conclusions as you, Boots!

Trial of Champions

The Playthrough
Once, I had a name – but I don't remember it. There was a life before this, but it feels no more real than a dream to me, now. Surely I came into existence here, on the oars, rowing and pulling, rowing and pulling, sleeping and shitting where I sit, a backbreaking monotony whose only end will be a hardly-to-be-hoped for merciful death. But wait – here comes another landfall, and something is different. We're being unshackled, and led abovedecks. The sky! The air! Everything is so vast and blue. The wheeling of the seagulls above is like the dancing of angels. Even this mean and forbidding island seems a paradise compared to the stinking, lightless depths of the galley.

Then we're given the 'good' news – we have all been purchased by Lord Carnuss, brother of Baron Sukumvit, inventor of the infamous (not to mention 'new and improved') Deathtrap Dungeon. Jealous of his brother's fame and success, our new owner intends to enroll us in his gladiatorial arena, pit us against each other, then enter the single, eventual, survivor into the next Trial of Champions in the Dungeon. If this champion wins the proverbially un-winnable Trial (talk about long-shots!) then Carnuss getting the 20,000 prize money will somehow or other be mud in his brother's eye. Hmm. Not much of a plan, I know. Perhaps the overseer explained it badly – I'm still a bit giddy at the sudden lack of rowing.

Now, far be it for me to tell Lord Carnuss his own business; but if I was him, and I wanted to win the Dungeon that badly, I'd probably splash some cash on a sword-for-hire – y'know, a legendary warrior who has made a living out of surviving just that sort of thing. I probably wouldn't pin all my hopes on a bunch of exhausted and half-starved former galley slaves... But none of us are about to argue, if his nonsensical plans mean a few more days of life for us. We let ourselves be herded into our new cells – but I have a feeling we won't be calling these 'home' for too long...

Our training begins the next day. First there's what's, technically speaking, a sack race – but the sort you played in school probably didn't involve hot coals. In the afternoon, I'm sent one-on-one against a BONECRUSHER (who looks much sillier than his name suggests). A bit of canny net-work defeats the beast, but others are presumably not so lucky; the EASTERNER and I are the only cellmates – out of an original six – to return that night. When the guard makes it known that he expects only one prisoner to walk out of each cell next day, I'm suddenly fighting for my life. The next morning, I'm the one tucking into the slap-up breakfast, while in the corner of the cell the Easterner's corpse tucks into only... er, death. I guess I just wanted the complimentary Full English more than he did. It beats rowing for a living, anyway.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZtONfCh.jpg?1)

Another day of gladiatorial shenanigans await. There's some mucking about with blades on a spinning pole, and then the survivors of that tomfoolery are all blindfolded(!) and given ball-and-chain flails. I hope Lord Carnuss is getting some jollies from the sight of us all stumbling blindly about, swinging at empty air, tripping over the fallen, but once again I can't help but question his methods. What is this proving?! Surely he's more likely to find a worthy champion for the Dungeon if we're able to see what we're doing? That way, he'd know that the survivors were the most adept fighters. This way, the most adept fighters are as likely as anyone else to be accidentally bludgeoned to death while some clueless blunderer gets lucky and accidentally stumbles through to victory. Speaking of which...

Time for this clueless blunderer to face off against the only other man still standing. The FIGHTING SLAVE does his best, but I somehow win through. A similar melee among the other half of the slaves has left a SOUTHERNER as the only other former galley slave to beat. He gives me my hardest test yet [running me down to only 2 Stamina points!] but eventually goes down. I'm now treated to a week of absolute luxury and indulgence while I restore myself. Nothing is denied me. Once again, I have to wonder if a week of gaudy excess is really the best way to get someone match fit for – wait, sod it, no I don't. Pass me another concubine, would you?

(https://i.imgur.com/0UIhggf.jpg?1)

And then, finally, the day has come. We take ship for Fang, and the infamous Deathtrap Dungeon. Let's do this thing! I dispatch a HELLHOUND and two ORCS, get mugged by a BLACK IMP, find a spear, breastplate, and a magic broadsword, and answer a riddle posed by skeletons. Then I meet a chap called Noy, who surely uses the Buddha as his style guide. I must now apparently pass three tests to see if I'm a worthy (potential) winner of the Trial. Eh? You mean surviving the Dungeon isn't going to be enough...? First, says Noy, I must win a tug of war with a caveman. I blink, wondering if I've heard correctly. Then I start to worry that this is a horrible new euphemism; I hardly like to think what for. But a door slides open, and in wanders... well, a caveman holding a rope. I know. I'm as baffled as you are, but let's just get this over with. After the tug of war, I correctly answer another riddle. Finally, I have to fight Noy himself. This is no normal fight – Noy is blind, so the fight happens through a series of random guesses and die rolls i.e. 'Will you try an overhead attack, or come at him from the side?' Someone up there must like me, as I somehow choose correctly at every option, and finally I triumph. (Perhaps there was a method to Carnuss' 'send in the blunderer' madness after all...?)

(https://i.imgur.com/TQTekBk.jpg?1)

Immediately after Noy comes the cover star of the book (if you have the Wizard editions, anyway); barrelling down the corridor towards me, rotted caparisons flapping, is a SKELETON KING, resplendent upon an equally skeletal steed. No context or apology is offered; none is needed. He is glorious in his randomness, and it is a pleasure to fight him. [Why is a tugging caveman silly, but a skeleton riding a horse down a hallway brilliant? Don't ask me; I don't make the rules]. Among other things, I purloin a wooden whistle from his saddlebags, which comes in handy a few rooms later when I use it to lull a vicious two-headed dog to sleep. I open the chest it was guarding, and slip on the copper bracelet inside.... OOF! The cursed bracelet costs me two Skill points and a Luck point. And it was all going so well...

(https://i.imgur.com/FVrhddf.jpg?1)

In the next room, the opposite exit has been carved into the likeness of a vast stone face. Emerging from the mouth/doorway is a long purple TONGUE, and it has one of the other contestants – the Elf Prince – in its coils. [Deathtrap Dungeon made great use of the other contestants, so it's a bit of a surprise that's it taken me this long to bump into one this time around.] Hacking away at the tongue, I manage to free the Elf Prince from its clutches, but too late to save him. So I dive into the mouth and give battle, until the loathsome thing stops twitching. [Slightly disappointed that I don't die here, to be honest, just so that I could fill in 'Killed by: Tongue' on my spreadsheet.]

(https://i.imgur.com/KKsBcsN.jpg?1)

I ignore a SIREN, fight a STATUE, find a fire-proof cloak, a gold ring and some clock hands. Then it comes down to another 50/50 choice of where to go. Choosing the door over the corridor option, I'm told that I open it to see piles of untold wealth arrayed before me. I'm told that I walk up and try to grab some of the gold – but this was all the illusion of a MIND WARP BEAST to snare luckless contestants. My adventure ends here. [In a rare fit of pique, I decide not to accept this, because if I'd been given the option to touch the treasure – rather than just being told that I did – I'm smart enough not to have done so. So I take the other option of two, and continue down the corridor instead. Iron bars immediately slam into place, trapping me. Do I have the chisel? I do not. My adventure ends here. So I was dead whichever way I took.] It's an abrupt and frustrating ending to a run which had been going really rather well (I was positively groaning with loot), but hey – it still beats rowing for a living!

The Verdict
Well I was expecting this to be 'more of the same' – and to some extent it is. ToC immediately has a more appealing set-up than Deathtrap Dungeon, though, what with your character being a galley-slave rather than the generic wandering sellsword. Being forced into Deathtrap Dungeon against your will adds a little frisson and narrative interest to proceedings, as well as a better incentive to survive beyond 'win some gold'. Even though it's hard, the early gladiatorial section is huge fun, and a really unique way to approach a gamebook – unfortunately it's pretty short, and we're quickly back to the most generic of generic dungeon crawls. Endless tunnels, endless wooden doors, endless 'The passage ends at a T-junction' paragraphs. It feels like such a missed opportunity.

This book doesn't feel as difficult as, say, Caverns of the Snow Witch – enemies are finally skilled appropriately – but it doesn't feel particularly fair, either. Much of ToC is a succession of luck rolls, skill rolls and blind choices where failure usually means instant death. Don't have Item X? You're dead. Walk through door X instead of door Y? You're dead. Sir Ian does introduce a new mechanic; you'll frequently be asked, when something happens, to roll a die (or two). If it's 1-4, say, X will happen. 5-6 and Y will happen. Sometimes you'll roll against Skill/Stamina, or an enemy's Skill/Stamina. In these cases, X or Y is always an insta-kill. So time and time again, the game comes down to random chance, no matter how well you've done up to that point. And Sir Ian obviously loves this new mechanic, because about two paragraphs after any such roll, you'll have to make another one – (I'm not exaggerating; the gladiatorial sequence in particular is full of them!) It's a frequently infuriating experience - and you don't even have the benefit of provisions or Potions!

If you liked Deathtrap Dungeon, you'll like this. And for the most part it does what it sets out to do fairly well. But, particularly coming off the back of Sorcery!, I can't help wanting something... more. 6.5 combat dice out of 10.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 October, 2022, 02:15:37 PM
Ha! I'm glad you had exactly the same take on me regarding the daftness of the trials, and amused you then died in exactly the same way I did with that mind warp beast.

I agree that it's a frustrating book in very many ways - I'd have much preferred the whole book to be about a gladiatorial tournament and coming through various tasks to win a prize. Throw in a sub-plot where you have to start a slave rebellion, or deal with some backstage gladiator politics, or even tour from one arena to the next with encounters en route, and you'd have a fun little story.
On another note, elves really suck at Deathtrap Dungeon, don't they? Every time I find one they're in the throes of death.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 19 October, 2022, 02:22:17 PM
Both of those reviews made me laugh!

It is a desperately unfair book though. I think I'll just cheat if I play it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 25 October, 2022, 12:01:04 PM
Had my aforementioned FF playing pal over at the weekend so we had our first go at the two new books. Apologies for those used to the more structured and carefully written game reports on this thread because this will just be me rambling for a bit in a very haphazard manner.

Secrets of Salamonis

As noted upthread, Tazzio Bettin's art for this one is great. A bizarre opening scene throws you off a little (in a fun way) before the game proper starts. It's a fun set up where you have several options when you enter the city as a naive wannabe adventurer (or possibly student). There are also a load of shorter quests you can opt for once you manage to join the Adventurer's guild. Reminded me of Skyrim a little in that respect. The book feels like a kind of rags to riches story but we didn't get far enough to get beyond the rags really! We did earn a couple of gold pieces [spoiler]working in an offal processing factory[/spoiler] which was pretty thrilling as you can imagine... then returned there later on in order to do a little pest control for them.

Before joining the Guild though [spoiler]you need to obtain the correct permits...[/spoiler] in fact there was a point early on where we considered renaming the book 'City of Permits' or 'Tax Quest'. Salamonis is a very regulated city with a very earnest and indeed odious tax collector. In fact [spoiler]he was our downfall after his dog mauled us and then he locked us up[/spoiler] - my advice for this adventure is try to earn yourself some money early on wherever possible!

It's a fun book though, looking forward to going back to it.

Shadow of the Giants

This one is good too. The illustrations are also very nice - and a big improvement on the previous book Crystal of Storms, for me at least.

By contrast with Salamonis, in this book you're a more experienced adventurer looking for a new quest (at Firetop Mountain no less), and with an option of finding a follower to take with you. [spoiler]They might not last long though![/spoiler] The initial quest soon spirals out of control as the [spoiler]aforementioned Giants are released and stomp off across the landscape[/spoiler]. Feeling a bit guilty about this we set off to try and rectify the situation. This involves a bit of a cross country journey and then a search through a well-realised city. This section was reminiscent of City of Thieves lots of options, different streets to go down, different shops and people to speak to and a good old pie eating contest. Unfortunately the faulty memory of my companion led to a wrong answer which meant the person we were looking for ended up chopping us to bits but I was very much enjoying this one and it would be good to explore the city a bit more.

Anyway, both great additions to the series and with some thoughtful construction that means each adventure has plenty of variety throughout.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 26 October, 2022, 03:50:21 PM
Great review dude! I agree that these are two of the best for a long time.

Here's my Trial of Champions Replay!

So for this, I went at max stats. I also skipped the pre-Dungeon bit, as despite being interesting it's also extremely linear and if you succeed you get all your Stamina restored, and if you fail.. well, you're dead. I know your luck isn't restored, so I reduced my Luck to 10 (although you need all the luck you can get in Deathtrap Dungeon)

Therefore my story begins as I stand before the foreboding arch of Deathtrap Dungeon. The crowds cheers fill the air, but my eyes see only Lord Carnuss, resplendent on his dias in his finery. His robes, so bright in the sunlight, may as well be drenched with the blood of the brave men and women who died in his games. Lord Carnuss dies this day, I swear.

Ducking under the archway I enter the cool, dank darkness of Sukumvit's legendary dungeon. Behind the first door I encounter I battle a terrifying hellhoud, putting it down though its flames scorch me mightily, and discover a single gold ring in the room it was guarding, strangely cool in the heat of the hounds chamber. Some strange feeling tells me the ring will be significant, so into my pouch it goes.
At the next junction I go right, some odd compulsion, like a half-remembered dream, telling me the left path is the wrong one. The path ends at a ropebridge, swaying dangerously over a fast flowing underground river, complete with a tollbox. I have paid my toll already, I think - a toll in pain. Instead I clamber down a rope at the chasms side, where a creature ambushes me and tries to dump me into the rapids below: a strider, a fearsome hired killer, surely placed here by Sukumvit to ensnare the unwary. My superior skill wins through and I cut the assassin down, claiming a bone charm from around its neck as a prize.

With nothing further to be found below, I clamber back up the rope and decide to cross without paying the toll, meeting no ill-fortune for doing so. The passage ends at a door with a simple riddle - at least, I believe it to be simple, as I place my hand, unprotected into an alcove, conscious that should my confidence be misplaced, the penalty could be steep - but to my relief the door opens. Moving on, I discover a door upon which rests a broom - a symbol of witchcraft, thinks I and opening the door are proven right to see an ancient crone cackling about her cauldron, doubtless preparing some evil concoction. The hag vanishes, leaving me assailed by vicious bats: no match for the fine blade Carnuss supplied, but whilst I battle the first the second latches into my back, draining my blood and leaving me weakened and disorientated. I dump the dead bats into the cauldron, hoping to spoil the witches brew, and search the room, finding a phial of red dust and a strange box, its lid carved with the face of a dwarf - the very dwarf lord, indeed, who entered the dungeon before me, his eyes and mouth wide in soundless horror. With a shocked cry I drop the box to the floor and hurry from the chamber.

(I auto-death'd in this room from the red dust, but decided to continue)

The next door is sturdily locked: figuring it must contain something of note to be sealed so I break it down with my shoulder only to find myself facing the most awful foe so far: a Coldclaw, bloated and foul, hungry for my innards. The cold here hampers my efforts, but I dispatch the thing, though it wounds me grievously. Within the chamber I find a wax-sealed pot, and within the pot a second gold ring. Luck indeed! Feeling brave I enter the lair of the Coldclaw, gritting my teeth against the chill. Bones and scraps of clothing litter the chamber, whilst far above is an opening where I can see the sky - what I would give, at that moment, to stand under it! There is no way to climb, so instead I scour the detritus and recover a pair of fine elven boots before returning to the corridor.

The tunnels continue to twist and turn about until I am forced to admit I am lost. Ahead, for a second, I glimpse the head of a small humanoid, before it ducks back and flees into the darkness. Giving chase, I stumble across a sword half-buried in some fallen rocks: it is finely balanced and sparkles in the dim torchlight. I need no further incentive to rid myself of the sword of Carnuss: I cast it against the wall, wishing it were the man himself, and press on with my new blade. The next portal I find is barred - I am torn here between my pursuit and entering this room, but again, thinking the bar can only be there to prevent my entry for nefarious reason, lever my way in only to find two skeletons, thick with cobwebs and half-buried in dust. To my horror, the door slams shut, sealing me within, and worse, one of the skeletons begins to speak. It is another riddle, but a simple one. My reward: a small iron key. The bones fall silent and the door opens, allowing me to continue on my way.

Something tells me the next door is best left alone, and at the junction ahead I resume old habits, bearing left and finding myself at another door, hidden behind which is a fresh horror - none other than a Lich, sitting upon a throne, clad in rotten finery. Her burning red eyes fixed upon mine, she demands I endure her gauntlet of pain - or die where I stand. Such a choice is easily made and with trepidation I don the gauntlet she offers. The pain - such agony, as though being crushed, flayed and disemboweled, all at once. I scream and sink to my knees, silently willing the pain to end, but then, unbidden, the faces of my fellow slaves float before my eyes: The brave Southerner who so nearly won the tournament, the Northman so fleet of foot, the brave soul I killed blindfolded and never even saw his face - even the vicious Easterner. Determination to see Carnuss pay floods me, and despite the torment I force myself to stand and face the lich. Slowly the suffering fades, and with my face set, I pull off the gauntlet and let it clatter to the floor.
Her eyes fixed on mine, she silently pulls a gold ring from her skeletal finger and drops it before me. For a moment I hesitate, then pick up the ring, turn my back and leave. No other word passes between us.

Going left again, I hear a cry for help and, upon investigating, find the small man I saw earlier, trapped in the web of a huge spider. The fellow seems doomed, but it does not sit well with me to abandon another to his fate: wounded as I am I step forward to bring my strength to bear against the huge arachnid and leave it slain upon the cavern floor. The small man is full of thanks - he and his folk lived in these tunnels before the coming of Sukumvit, he claims, and are now beset by monsters. As a reward, he gifts me a gold ring - my fourth - and a cryptic warning before fleeing into the darkness. Something about his story does not sit right with me, yet had I not intervened when I did, the spider would surely have slain him..?
The tunnel continues till it arrives at a staircase, leading both up and down. Had I a coin to toss I would have done so - in absence of a coin, I decide to descend, where I am swarmed by huge rats: easy fodder for blade. The rats, it seems, were crowding in a storeroom of sorts, much of the food stale and rotten. I am in poor health, so salvage what best I can: I loaf of stale bread and some salted beef. I devour both and discover a bonus - an iron file baked into the bread that drops into my lap when I break it open. My strength restored, I return to the stairs and climb up where I find a chest containing a bunty of treasures: rope, a hammer, and a vial of anti-poison. More treasures await in the room beyond: a winged helmet and shield. I take a moment to read the runes within the room - a warning of some sort - before moving on, the precious armour forgotten (I was annoyed here that reading the runes precluded me from taking the helmet or shield, and this proved very significant later)

The food had restored me somewhat, but I cannot not help but feel that only hate was keeping me going as I trudged through miles of dank corridor, awaiting the next monster or fiendish trap that might take my life. For a moment I even envy the poor souls who died on Blood Island, before pushing such thoughts to the back on my mind: their deaths must be avenged! I push on bitterly. The corridor soon ended at another door, and upon entering I find myself facing a serene fellow, evidently blind, who greeted me as contestant number two and claimed he had awaited me - to test me and determine if I was worthy of proceeding - I cannot help but laugh. Me, who has already endured hell to get this far! His first test is of strength: a tug of war over a pit with a huge brute of a man, evidently a servitor of the trialmaster. After the games of Carnuss this is child's play to one such as I: with a mighty heave I send the poor fellow tumbling into the pit, something that concerns the trialmaster not. His second test is a riddle, easily solved, whilst his third is trial by combat. He is blind, but evidently skilled: I bide my time, defending his strikes until an opening appears, then press savagely until I strike the winning blow. For a second I fear he might take umbrage at his defeat but instead he allows me to continue.

Remembering the warning from the little man I pass by a tempting fountain and head further into the maze. I am soon surprised to hear the sound of hoofbeats before out of the darkness bursts some skeletal horror - an undead rider atop an undead mount, shrieking for my blood. Forced into battle, the hammer I found earlier proves useful in reducing the attacker to dust. In its saddlebags I find a wooden whistle and a mirror: I take both. At the next junction I keep left until I reach a pit and, on whim, lash my rope to the rocks above and descend into the darkness until I find myself upon a small ledge, leading to a cave. After vanquishing the creature within - a small mutant, easily slain - I search the things stinking nest and find another curious item: a clay pig, with something rattling inside. Hoping for another gold ring I break it open upon the rock wall but find only a black charm of polished coral which, when hung about my neck, seems to make me feel somewhat diminished.. as though fate were turning her back on me. I have no time for such thoughts. Ignoring all thoughts of returning to the level above I move deeper into the cave, soon finding it thick with sucking, smelly mud that rapidly rises to my knees. To return now would be more wearisome than to continue - I can feel the spirits of the other dead slaves at my back, urging me on to Carnuss's death. I press on. The mud soon reaches my waist, and at one point my neck, but I drive forward and eventually exit feeling strangely refreshed.

Beyond the mud a chamber lit by glowing rocks, within rests a soapstone statue of a great elephant: the statue bears an obvious door, and it is a simple task to work out how to open it, revealing yet another golden ring. Giving thanks for my luck I move on until I find another pit, leading to a level below. Reasoning that dropping down a level has served me well at each point so far I jump down into a darkened passge below, lit by flickering torchlight. A figure is in the corridor ahead, and, at the sound of my landing, he turns and walks towards me with heavy tread: with shock I realise advancing upon me is another of my fellow contestants: the chaos warrior, clad in his black spiked plate, and as he does so he swings his great mace from across his shoulder into a fighting stance. That he intends to fight me is obvious for those initiated into the cult of chaos know only battle. Steeling myself I adopt a fighting stance myself, and without a word battle is joined. He is a savage and skilled opponent: again and again his mace slams into my exposed flesh whilst I hack desperately at his thick armour until my limbs ache and the floor is slick with blood. Eventually, more through luck that judgement, one of my blows finds the back of his knee, where the armour is weakest - he stumbles, and I drive my sword with a shout into the visor of his helmet until I feel it scrape the steel of the helms back. He falls with a crash and does not rise.

I do not know how long I sit there in the dark with his body. My wounds are grievous - my ribs, at least, are broken, as is my jaw, and possibly my shoulder and arm also. Black spots swim before my eyes and I am bleeding freely. Finally I struggle to my feet. It is not my fate to die here in the darkness.
The warrior has little on him - a strange code in black ink on a parchment, and another gold ring wrapped in black silk. How had he so few, yet had progressed this far into the dungeon? I add the ring to my five and move on, holding onto the wall now for support. I leave bloody handprints in my wake.
Ahead, in an alcove, I discover a strange sight: a pair of cheerful candles and a plate of nuts and berries, arranged for a tasty meal. I force some of the food between my lips, not caring now if they are poisoned or no: my strength a little restored I move into a junction where, turning left, am horrified to see the tunnel packed with zombies, their pallid skin gleaming sickly in the torchlight. They practically fill the corridor: I can smell the stench of them as they stumble forward, arms outstretched. For a second I ponder fighting them but the odds are too great: turning, I half run, half lurch down the corridor hoping for a door, a tunnel, anything to take me away from the horde.
Ahead, the corridor terminates in a pit, wide, deep and dark. I pause, panting, trying to force air back into my lungs, trying to ignore the pain in my ribs. I cough, and my palm fills with blood.
Behind me the horde approaches, soundless but for the soft sound of their feet dragging over the stone. The is only one way forward. With a snarl, I throw myself out over the pit, my fingers brushing the far side as I plummet downwards into the dark.
For the slaves of blood island there would be no revenge.

***

Failed again. This book is so difficult. Had it not been for the healing mud I would have easily died when battling the chaos knight: as it was I was on four stamina points when I faced the zombies (and only two before I ate the nuts and berries) and it turns out either fighting the zombies OR jumping the pit with no winged helmet is certain death. Even at this point I decided to press on as though I did have the helmet but ended up dying so many times it wasn't funny: the combats are so many in number, with such high skill scores and no real chance to regain stamina, that death is essentially assured.
Reading on for pleasure I discovered when I got to the end I didn't even have all of the rings - you need all nine, and missing one is an auto-fail, as well as three codes, for a total of 12 essential items to pass the final test (and that's not counting things like the helmet, the red dust, the file and so on that you cannot win without) making this one of the hardest and unfair books to date - which is a shame as, if you do go all the way to the end, it has a very satisfying and dramatic conclusion.

So it's been fun, but also not fun if that makes sense.

Next I shall be playing Falcon: Lost in Time (Thanks Richard!) and then onto another childhood favourite: Robot Commando.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 26 October, 2022, 07:19:37 PM
What a fun write-up! It does sound quite unfair though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 November, 2022, 09:21:02 PM
I haven't had a lot of time for Gamebooks lately but I have been playing Falcon 4: Lost in Time which Richard very kindly sent me. I don't have much to add to his excellent playthrough except to echo how absolutely nuts this book is. Each different place you jump to is very nicely realised with great descriptions and what feels like some real depth - which makes it somewhat frustrating when you spend an incredibly short time in each one with very little to do: in one you literally arrive, meet some guys and agree to join the resistance, get their names and so on... then immediately get back in your ship and leave again. On one level it feels like hopping into some fully realised worlds (like Orb) but it's also a bit disappointing - you could get a whole series out of this book alone.
There are dozens of auto-deaths and hardly any skill tests - it's an odd book, all in. The art, once again, is superb. I think I liked the Rack of Baal more: I enjoyed both, but not sure I'd look any others out.

I've also been playing a bit of Ronin 47 which is an independent gamebook from Jonathan Green (Bloodbones, Curse of the Mummy etc) where you play a dude using a giant robot to fight Kaiju. It's another odd one in that the background and writing are great but the combat rules when in the mech are super complex and it means I keep starting it and then putting it down again. Coincidentally Robot Commando is the next FF book so will play that instead, hopefully next week!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 November, 2022, 09:46:21 PM
One of my favourite bits in Falcon was that in the Evil alternative timeline bad guys have facial hair which no good agent of TIME would ever have!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 November, 2022, 09:51:06 PM
That's quite funny! I missed that little detail. I'm now imagining goatee beards from that Star Trek episode. Glad you enjoyed the book.

I think I'm probably going to skip Trial of Champions and move on to FF 23, Masks of Mayhem (but I won't have time to do that for a few days).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 November, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
It's only mentioned in passing, that everyone has grown out their facial hair and that nobody in 'real Falcons time would ever do that! Must be a Star Trek reference.

I have played MoM but cannot remember a thing about it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 November, 2022, 01:46:49 PM
My only memory of that book was that at the very end you have to identify a traitor by working out which paragraph to turn to next, otherwise it's instant death. There weren't many characters to choose from, and I was certain that it was [spoiler]Ifor Tynan[/spoiler] (and I was right) but I couldn't figure out which paragraph I was meant to turn to. Even when I methodically pliers through the book from the beginning looking for the paragraph, which turned out to be number [spoiler] 40[/spoiler], I still couldn't for the life of me see why. I spent hours converting each of the letters in his name into numbers and working out codes and equations and so on just to figure out what the solution to the book was. When I eventually gave up in despair, I happened to glance one last time at the name and only then noticed that it was [spoiler]Ifortynan[/spoiler].
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 14 November, 2022, 07:17:16 PM
I've just been listening to the Hypnogoria podcast devoted to the history of Fighting Fantasy books.  What I hadn't realised was that some of the Steve Jackson ones were written by a second, coincidentally-named Steve Jackson, who was hired when the original Steve Jackson's line of books got popular
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 14 November, 2022, 08:12:27 PM
Yes the other Steve did Scorpion Swamp, Demons of the Deep and Robot Commando.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_(American_game_designer)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 14 November, 2022, 10:47:23 PM
US-Steve Jackson is famous for Car Wars, GURPS, Munchkin etc.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: zombemybabynow on 16 November, 2022, 09:36:17 AM
i rolled a six, so was allowed to post a reply

i think i was 8-ish when they came out - absolutely fantastic

https://i0.wp.com/rubberchickengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fighting-Fantasy-3.jpg?resize=1170%2C912 (https://i0.wp.com/rubberchickengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fighting-Fantasy-3.jpg?resize=1170%2C912)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: karlos on 16 November, 2022, 01:14:12 PM
Can anyone confirm that Falcon #1 got a reprint a few years but the other books didn't (not sure why, if so)?

Also, Way of the Tiger books - did these get reprinted? 

Thanks, chaps!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 November, 2022, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: karlos on 16 November, 2022, 01:14:12 PM
Can anyone confirm that Falcon #1 got a reprint a few years but the other books didn't (not sure why, if so)?

Also, Way of the Tiger books - did these get reprinted? 

Thanks, chaps!

Yep - Falcon #1 was reprinted but none of the others, I assume nobody bought it. I've not seen it so not sure how different it is, if different at all.

The WotT books have all been reprinted - they were released in hardback with new art and some errata, but the company that did that folded. They're now available through Amazon on some kind of print on demand deal - I don't think the art works as well as it's obviously intended to be colour and so reproduces poorly at times in b&w - but the text is the same (and improved in Inferno, at least).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 November, 2022, 01:37:30 PM
Quote from: zombemybabynow on 16 November, 2022, 09:36:17 AM
i rolled a six, so was allowed to post a reply

i think i was 8-ish when they came out - absolutely fantastic

https://i0.wp.com/rubberchickengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fighting-Fantasy-3.jpg?resize=1170%2C912 (https://i0.wp.com/rubberchickengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fighting-Fantasy-3.jpg?resize=1170%2C912)

Great image that. We're less than halfway through that lot with our playthrough (although I'm over halfway through the ones I own myself)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 November, 2022, 02:21:17 PM
Speaking of playthroughs:

ROBOT COMMANDO

Another book I managed to complete in my younger days. I was a big fan of this one back then: the premise is absolutely ridiculous but it's got giant robots against dinosaurs, how can that NOT be awesome? I seem to remember it's also not that difficult to complete with several paths to victory  - a solid antidote to Trial of Champions then.

The plot is as contrived as it can be: I live in Thalos, enemy state of the Karosseans, where we use mecha for most tasks including dealing with the native dinosaurs population. One day everyone in Thalos falls asleep due to some dastardly unexplained plot by Minos, the leader of Kaross and only I am left awake to stop the impending invasion. It's all just a vague setup for me to wander around a deserted land in a battle robot and I'm totally fine with that. I'm also totally fine with me, a simple Dino-rancher, deciding that it's time to be taking on the entire Karossean army and saving the world.

I've got the choice of two robots at the start: a tough, all round humanoid robot designed for dino-herding or a light flyer. I seem to remember usually taking the former, so this time I go with the latter - it should be useful to quickly get somewhere a bit more useful. My robot of choice is Dragonfly class and literally looks like a giant dragonfly with rubbish armour and no combat bonus at all. I've also got 5 crappy medkits (1 stam each!) and a sword, because in this future society everyone still carries one of those, I guess. I decide my first port of call should be the City of Knowledge - perhaps there will be something there to help me in my plight. En route I battle a Pteranadon, which luckily has terrible stamina as my dragonfly robot has effective stamina 5, and defeat it before landing and making my way to the college of medicine where I read up on a compound that cures all sorts of sleeping sickness. I immediately make some - I've now got a litre of this cure, which should be enough to everyone in Thalos, but it gets super unstable once opened so I have use it all at once on everyone. More troublingly one of the ingredients I used (essence of Man Trap Flower) was unstable and may need to be topped up with a fresh dose. I'm not really troubled by how I'm going to add this to the compound when I already can't open it because I'm so hugely overconfident. I'll sort that out later!

After a scrap with some giant lizards I head to the college of war where my weedy robot is immediately shot down by a Karossean Myrmidon (essentially a Decepticon plane / robot transformer). Testing my luck, I scramble from the burning wreckage and hide until the Karossean stupidly climbs out of his robot and I nip in whilst he's wandered off and take over. This robot RULES with high stats and the ability to switch forms, even though I don't know enough about the controls to fully get the benefit of it. I then head off to a museum where hoped to get info on the Karosseans but the only useful bit of info I get it that they often settle tribal disputes with hand-to-hand duels.

My next stop is the City of Jungle where I'm hoping to get the other reagents for my cure. I transform my Starscream mech from plane to walker and enter the jungle on foot, quickly find the Man Trap plant, pick the flower and drop it into my cure capsule to complete it, before I have to fight the Man Trap in an epic plant vs robot battle, making short work of the foul flora. The jungle is hard going on my robots armour however and when I spot Karosseans are in the city it's time to leave.
I now decide to fly to the exciting sounding City of Pleasure, which sadly turns out to be mainly arcades - for the men and women of Thalos, Southend seafront would be the place to party! Here I accidently shoot myself playing Zap the Karossean but I do get a tip about something exciting... back in the city of knowledge - bah!

My only choice from here is the City of Industry. Here I pop into the Robot Experimental Centre and find a transponder helmet that better allows me to control my mecha, boosting my skill by +1 if it's below 11 (it is), get hit on the head by a book losing 1 stamina, and then bashed about by an experimental battlesuit for another 2 stamina damage.. ouch. A skirmish with a guard robot leaves my stamina pretty depleted by now so I use a couple of substandard medkits before beating a retreat but not before snagging an experimental missile. It's then back to the City of Knowledge, where I snag the one-use experimental Invisibility Cloak that I found out about in the arcade! Then I fly to the coastal City of Storms where at the weather bureau I discover a huge storm is due to hit Thalos soon - and if I can release my compound into it from The City of Worship I could potentially cure everyone! Result! I also replenish my medkit stock here (and then use them all up)

From here I can head straight to the City of Worship. The storm is rolling in, so I pilot my craft high into it - taking damage as I do so - and release the compound into the storm. As the rain washes across Thalos it wakes everyone up (I know, this still doesn't really make sense) and the Karosseans retreat. I am a hero and Thalos is saved!


As suspected I still enjoyed this - in fact I enjoyed it enough to play it again and try a different route that I was more familiar with, whereby I ended up fighting (and losing to) the Karossean leader in a giant battle tank and from a bit of reading there is also a third route to victory where you duel the Karossean leader with swords. It's a pretty easy book - I didn't really have any issues on my first go - and you can return to the city locations pretty much indefinitely although each time you do you risk an additional combat - although you can't go back to the in-city locations once you've been there. It all adds up to a non-linear experience with plenty of scope for exploration.
The robot side is well handled: combat is nicely straightforward compared to some other more complex books - essentially the robot has a stamina of its own and may or may not give you a skill bonus., and the robots stamina is generally on the low side meaning you may need to switch mech every once in a while. There's plenty to choose from on the way through the book, although many of them suck.
Where it falls down is that the plot itself is really stupid and the book lacks a bit of atmosphere - Thalos must be a wasteland because I was zipping about barely encountering anyone, including the invading Karosseans (incidentally, something I liked about them was that they are always described / depicted as having beards, which presumably is the Star Trek way you can tell they are evil). In fact the Karosseans are completely useless and fully deserved to be defeated via a deux ex machina.
I'd rate this one as fun, but not top tier.

Dinosaurs vs robots though!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: karlos on 16 November, 2022, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 16 November, 2022, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: karlos on 16 November, 2022, 01:14:12 PM
Can anyone confirm that Falcon #1 got a reprint a few years but the other books didn't (not sure why, if so)?

Also, Way of the Tiger books - did these get reprinted? 

Thanks, chaps!

Yep - Falcon #1 was reprinted but none of the others, I assume nobody bought it. I've not seen it so not sure how different it is, if different at all.

The WotT books have all been reprinted - they were released in hardback with new art and some errata, but the company that did that folded. They're now available through Amazon on some kind of print on demand deal - I don't think the art works as well as it's obviously intended to be colour and so reproduces poorly at times in b&w - but the text is the same (and improved in Inferno, at least).

Thanks for the info, BB!

I'm going to try and get the WotT reprints as my original copies have long since vanished.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 16 November, 2022, 04:24:35 PM
Interesting that all of the American Steve Jackson's books have multiple endings. I'm sure I've said this before but I much prefer these non-linear books where you can explore different locations like Robot Commando and Scorpion Swamp, over the one true path variety. Spectral Stalkers does that well.

The ability to trade up to a better robot or vehicle sounds like an innovative feature, I can't think of another gamebook that does anything like that.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 November, 2022, 10:27:11 AM
I totally agree. Playing it right after Trial of Champions, where the path through is razor thin, made it seem really refreshing to the point where I ran through it multiple times to try out the different paths and different robots.
A bit like Scorpion Swamp and Demons of the Deep it's not really than enaging in terms of immersion, but it's just fun. Forgot to mention the art is really nice, if obviously very influenced by Transformers.

Masks of Mayhem next for me but I'm looking forward to Creature of Havoc and Nightmare Castle after that. Beyond book 25 I've barely played any of them, so that's all going to be new for me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 November, 2022, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: karlos on 16 November, 2022, 03:15:32 PM
Thanks for the info, BB!

I'm going to try and get the WotT reprints as my original copies have long since vanished.

Top man! I have a couple of the reprints going spare if you like.

Oh, and if anyone plays the prequel and wants to give a verdict on it...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: karlos on 17 November, 2022, 12:56:12 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 17 November, 2022, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: karlos on 16 November, 2022, 03:15:32 PM
Thanks for the info, BB!

I'm going to try and get the WotT reprints as my original copies have long since vanished.

Top man! I have a couple of the reprints going spare if you like.

Oh, and if anyone plays the prequel and wants to give a verdict on it...

Very kind of you, sir!

I really fancy getting my hands on the prequel (as well as the final book) - something to ponder come payday!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: karlos on 17 November, 2022, 01:46:09 PM
Random thought - why were there never any 2000ad-related gamebooks back in the day?

The closest we had was the brief awesomeness that was Dice Man and the Dredd RPG, but that was it, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 November, 2022, 02:04:22 PM
At the time, yes. There was a gamebook in the form of an app a few years ago.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: karlos on 17 November, 2022, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 November, 2022, 02:04:22 PM
At the time, yes. There was a gamebook in the form of an app a few years ago.

Interesting!  Had no idea!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 November, 2022, 05:11:11 PM
It was called Countdown Sector 106, and you spent the first part of the game on patrol dealing with random incidents, and then eventually a plot developed where you had to foil a terrorist group's nuclear attack on the sector. The text was fine (can't remember who wrote it) and the app interface worked well, but the art was dreadful.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 November, 2022, 12:17:13 PM
Masks of Mayhem

I was sure I've played this before, but I didn't remember any of this book whatsoever, so perhaps I haven't!

I'm the king, which is awesome until my court wizard tells me another wizard is about to unleash destruction on my land (and indeed the world) by means of twelve magical sigils attached to stone golems. Someone should do something about this, I say. Yes, you should, says the wizard. So, against all reason, I set off ON MY OWN, on foot, with nothing bar a backpack full of sandwiches, a single potion of luck and my sword and special kingly helmet.
It is clear I am not a wise king.

Off I go, nodding to peasants and such and saying 'jolly good' and 'what ho' until I reach the foreboding monster filled and horribly named Lake Nekros. I build a raft, push off and something immediately hauls me into the water and kills me. That's a record for a FF book surely - dead in three paragraphs and on my first choice? Fuck that. I go back and try again.

This time the king decides to go around the lake via Affen Forest. It grows dark so I set up a jolly little camp and try and get some shuteye but some beastly kraken snakes up out of the lake and tries to have me for supper. It's a long fight as I have to fight each tentacle individually, but thankfully I am a skilled swordsman (all those fencing lessons paid off) and soon put paid to the rotten thing. What should happen next but a load of ghosts rising up out of the lake and offering to help me out should I but say the name of the top ghost fellow. Turns out the poor blighters' souls were held in thrall to the kraken and with it's death they're free. Odd eh?
Bouyed by the aid of my new chums I continue north where I'm accosted by some Wood Elves and taken to their delightfully rustic little village where I explain why I'm on my quest to vanquish Morgana and her masks. The elves agree to help and show me a mystic vision in their magical mirror, which is rather rum. "We could help you more but that would remove free choice which is what determines a hero" they say and whisk me away with their elf magic. Vague chaps, these elves!

(at this point I tried asking about the ghost and of course, when I mentioned his name, he appeared and destroyed all the elves. I was killed immediately by a magic vortex after so ignored this path, but this was actually pretty funny especially as the ghost was extremely cross)

I find myself in some mist shrouded hills on the far side of the lake. Top work elves, that's saved me a spot of boot leather! It's dashed cold here but I settle down and wait for the mist to clear, revealing an uninhabited mine of some kind. As a king I'm very interested in architecture, so I poke around in a ruined outhouse, fall through the floor and have to fight some jolly unpleasant rats and things to get out. I then meet some hermit chappy who gives me a rather nice royal sceptre before he falls asleep! One supposes it must be hard work being a hermit and all that. I then trot down into the mine itself where I pick up a nugget of copper ore and a pickaxe handle, which will make fine souvenirs of my jaunt. Spotting a hole in the ceiling I stop and look up through it and some chap above looks down it and shoots me dead!

One last go. I decide not to look up at the hole, retrace my steps, fight some bally smelly bats, then stop for a sandwich and a bite of fruitcake whilst I consider my position. I've been stuck in this rotten mine for some time and the old kingly sense of direction has failed me a bit. I keep going left till eventually I arrive at an entrance where some beastly great bear is waiting for me. It gets quite a few licks in too, and I have to stop for another lunch after the battle, I can tell you. Then it's a simple task to toddle on to Fallow Dale where I am to meet with this chap Hever and pick up his magic horn (Kevin told me to do this earlier. Did I mention Kevin? Splendid fellow. Made my helmet don't you know)
Before meeting Hever I stop off at the inn for an absolutely splendid lunch. Hever says he can't give me his magic horn unless I hand over a magic mirror - I don't have one of those, so he suggests I head back into bally Affen Forest and deal with some great filthy tiger that's running around there eating his cattle and whatnot. I head into the forest with some hounds and blunder into a pit trap - dug by Hever's own men, worse luck - and that's it for my adventure. Bad luck old bean!

This book is incredibly hard! It's Deathtrap Dungeon-esque in it's instant death choices it seems with many of them being very arbitrary. There's also a lot of luck and skill tests, and it looks like failing a lot of them is fatal too.
I haven't got far enough into this yet to really get into the plot, but the setup with me being the king but wandering about on my own without even a horse or a couple of aides is ridiculous. What is great is Russ Nicholson's wonderful illustrations which are full of atmosphere and also very evocative not only of the first two books in the series (which he illustrated, of course) but also old Games Workshop art of yore, which all adds to it being very cool indeed.
The sequence where I had to hunt the tiger was rather unique as well, it being a grid with both tiger and myself moving around in it randomly. Would have been better without an 'enter this square and you auto-die' bit though!

Despite the difficulty I've enjoyed this so far, so I'm going to stick at it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 23 November, 2022, 12:30:15 PM
Russ Nicholson is very much the man. I'd forgotten about him until I read your post.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 November, 2022, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 23 November, 2022, 12:17:13 PM
That's a record for a FF book surely - dead in three paragraphs and on my first choice?

My personal record is death in paragraph 1 - [spoiler]in Stormslayer you immediately meet a rampaging manticore.[/spoiler] I've attempted the book twice and never made it to paragraph 2! 😅
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 November, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
Well that'll take some beating!
Is Stormslayer any good? My wife asked if she could get me a FF book for Christmas and pretty much all the others I don't have are £30 and up on the secondary market..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 November, 2022, 05:42:49 PM
I love Russ Nicholson's artwork. He did a private commission for me nearly ten years ago:

(https://i.imgur.com/TYb6CUD.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 November, 2022, 09:12:29 AM
Oh that is fantastic!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 04 December, 2022, 09:15:00 AM
That's lovely, that.

I loved his stuff too, especially when printed in what was presumably something like its original size in Warlock magazine.

He's very much influenced my window painting style, in which I try to include as much gnarled wood and as many lanterns and drinking vessels as possible. But beyond that he's influenced my life in general - the very small house I live in is also full of gnarled wood, lanterns and drinking vessels.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dr Feeley Good on 07 December, 2022, 02:40:54 PM
Love that...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 08 December, 2022, 10:50:38 AM
There's some very nice Blanche-esque art from the Hungarian edition of Crystal of Storms up for sale here:
https://lakatos.bigcartel.com/products
Even if you're not into original art, go and check it out because they look great and far better than the art in the UK edition, lovely old school Warhammer / FF feel to them.

Anyway, I haven't posted here for a couple of weeks and that's because I still cannot beat Masks of Mayhem.

Anyone else playing this? It's insanely difficult, and that's all the more frustrating because once you get over the 'king wanders off on his own to do a quest without any stuff' premise the plot is actually quite good.
Looking forward to finishing it and playing something easier <checks which book is next the series> oh right.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 08 December, 2022, 11:11:42 AM
That really does look the business!

I've been busier than usual lately so haven't had time to start FF23 but will aim to get round to it before Christmas. (Whether I can finish it before Christmas remains to be seen...)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 08 December, 2022, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 08 December, 2022, 10:50:38 AM
Anyway, I haven't posted here for a couple of weeks and that's because I still cannot beat Masks of Mayhem.

I've fallen off the wagon a bit recently - I may have treated myself to a Nintendo Switch, which it's fair to say has been hogging most of my free time!

I don't have MoM, but I have got the next two book playthroughs in the bag for when we reach them - and having just done a little count, I've pleasantly surprised to find I've now played exactly half of the FF/Sorcery books that I own!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 December, 2022, 12:15:03 PM
I hope you're playing loads of Animal Crossing, Jimbo.

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 08 December, 2022, 12:00:18 PM
..having just done a little count, I've pleasantly surprised to find I've now played exactly half of the FF/Sorcery books that I own!

Nice! Counted mine up and I've played 26/54 owned. I'm expecting the playthroughs to falter badly once we get into the 30s.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 December, 2022, 05:16:20 PM
I've been playing Way of the Tiger: Ninja over the last week or so and finally finished it today. It's a prequel book to the series, ending exactly where Avenger starts with you off to fight Gorobei and become Grand Master of the Five Winds, and it's written by the same guy that did the final book in the main series, Redeemer.

Like Redeemer I won't spoil it here but it's enjoyable and very much in the spirit of the original series and pretty close to a Jamie Thomson book. You and four other aspirants must undertake a test to see which two actually get to fight to be Grandmaster. It's got much more of a Japanese bent to it in terms of enemies and setting and in a nice touch, you start off with less inner force and less stuff than you do in Avenger.
It's very hard - I died multiple times, and found the combat quite tricky this time around. The final fight is very nasty. The art isn't Bob Harvey, but it's better that the repro in the othert WotT reprints where colour art has been rendered muddy and ugly in black and white.
Negatives? It lacked the cinematic style combat that usually appears for a major fight in one of these books, and being a print on demand from Amazon the book itself isn't the nicest quality. That's not a lot of negative really!
Extremely fun if essential gamebook if you enjoyed the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 27 December, 2022, 07:51:49 PM
FF23: Masks of Mayhem playthrough

I've been looking forward to this one because of Russ Nicholson's art. The first thing that strikes me about the story is that even though I am a king I am wearing leather armour like some kind of peasant. Maybe I'm trying to be a man of the people or something?

Anyway, my armourer Kevin recommends that I look for a chap called Hever who has a magic horn which might be helpful on my quest. That seems sensible so when offered a choice of directions I head Hever's way. I kill a couple of bandits and otherwise manage to avoid getting into any trouble. I reach an elf village and meet their chief and their shaman, who tell me they are sympathetic to my quest and so I am allowed to ask them only one question. Why? That's not very helpful. Twats. They show me a brief vision of me in the future holding something, only I can't see what it is. Then they teleport me to the opposite side of a lake, which is further away from where Hever lives than I was before. Again I say, twats.

I come across a derelict mine, and am offered the choice of exploring it or ignoring it. Since I am on an important quest, I decide I have better things to do than explore a derelict mine which I have absolutely literally no reason at all to investigate. Passing it, I wonder if I have made a mistake, as FF books usually reward pointless detours and side quests for no other reason than idle curiosity? Maybe I've missed out on an indispensable object, but there seems to be no rational reason for my character to mess around doing anything else.

I find Hever, and am offered half a dozen choices or so, none of which seem to lead to anything actually happening, so I infer that I have probably avoided falling into some trap or other. I was warned in paragraph 1 that I am in possession of an important helmet, a royal heirloom albeit not a magical one, without which my kingdom will be lost (which begs the question why am I carrying such a vital artifact with me on a dangerous quest and alone? Why not leave it at home and wear a regular helmet?), and one of the choices I didn't make was to let Hever's men look after it for me. While I am staying with Hever the helmet is neither lost or stolen, so a quiet stay is probably better than an eventful one.

However, having nothing to trade for Hever's magical horn, I have to hunt and kill a pesky sabre-toothed tiger for him. This involves some entirely random die-rolls, which I win, and I get the horn, which basically amounts to deducting one skill point from my opponents during most fights.

As I am about to leave, my old friend Kevin arrives, a bit the worse for wear, and promptly dies in my arms (Kevin Redshirt Mungo to give him his full name). He immediately becomes an undead foe wielding a nine-tailed whip, and Hever and I have to fight him. (There are good before and after illustrations of Kevin, one of him alive and friendly, and one of him undead and hostile, which I enjoyed comparing with each other.) We make short work of him and I return to my quest. I choose the most direct route to the mountains, where lives the evil sorceress I am supposed to assassinate, and on my way I meet a trader and buy some antifreeze potion, which sounds like it will come in handy up a mountain.

I also buy a luck potion, even though I still have the one I started the adventure with, because my Initial Luck is only 7 and I'm already down to 5. I drink one of them now, but that doesn't do me any good, because to escape a bush fire I have to roll one die with three possible outcomes (i.e. 1-2, 3-4 or 5-6) instead of Testing my Luck, and the result is that I am incinerated.

Frankly, that random instant death seems a bit rubbish. I continue where I left off, and my next choice is to choose between east or west with no information about either option (a bit of a pet peeve of mine with gamebooks). I choose east because that's what Barrington Boots says he always does, and that is at least some kind of reason, better than none at all. I fight a giant, decide not to take his helmet as it is presumably a trap, and then try to cross a ravine on a rope bridge. I fight some fire-breathing monster on the bridge, and although I easily kill it the bridge has been damaged by fire and it snaps, sending me plummeting to my death.

On my third go, I go back to where I killed the giant and choose another way to cross the ravine, which results in my drowning.

At this point, I had had enough and decided to stop. These deaths and the choices which led to them were all too random and uninteresting, and the adventure as a whole is only a series of isolated encounters with no real sense of story or direction, a bit like if The Warlock of Firetop Mountain was set entirely outdoors and there were no keys to search for. I can't be bothered to read the rest of it (although I will look again at the Hever section to see what else could have happened).

I have had a fun time looking at all of Russ's pictures, and there is a very detailed one at 184 with some realistic dogs which I think is some of his best work. It's worth keeping the book just for that, but not, I think, finishing it ... especially when I have Creature of Havoc and Beneath Nightmare Castle to look forward to next!

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 January, 2023, 11:31:15 AM
Great writeup Richard!

I'm with you on MoM in that I'm just giving up. I tried following a walkthrough in the end and still lost, because even if you avoid all the insta-deaths and pass all the skill tests there's still a random, odds against you roll to get a vital item that causes you to fail without it. It's just too hard.
I actually think it's a bit of a shame, as the plot is quite good with plenty of foreshadowing of certain events, and the art is awesome. Anyway, I'm going on to Creature of Havoc to eat some hobbits.

As well as CoH I was gifted a posh new edition of Lone Wolf Flight from the Dark for Christmas so also looking to play that. And my long-suffering wife picked me up a copy of Black Vein Prophecy so I now have the first 45 FF's to play through - hurray!

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 03 January, 2023, 12:21:05 PM
I can report I've had a few attempts at Island of the Lizard King and Scorpion Swamp last month. Didn't get very far but I did enjoy spending some time with poor Mungo at the start of Lizard King.

I was given a couple of modern Usborne 'Choose Your Own Story' books for Christmas - Shadow Chaser and Curse Breaker - both by Simon Tudhope. Anyone tried these? The illustrations are a bit... young, I suppose, but the books themselves look ok. Probably for younger readers as it's Usborne, of course.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 January, 2023, 11:47:53 AM
I'm not familiar with those, but they do sound younger reader-esque. Let us know if any good!

Mungo is the MVP. The real poster boy for FF companions. Given (in fact, probably because) he's only alive for a couple of paragraphs its mad how much of a legend he is.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 January, 2023, 12:00:30 PM
I've just had my first, brief playthrough of Creature of Havoc.

I've been looking forward to this one. It could arguably be the greatest FF book ever in terms of its structure and uniqueness... although I don't think it's the best FF book ever, which is a bit different. The whole concept - playing a monster, the associated change to the combat rules because of that, and your gradual change from mindlessness into sentience - is fantastic. There's a number of clever puzzles including, if I remember rightly, hidden paragraphs and a code. The book is tightly and logically plotted and opens with 19 pages of exposition and worldbuilding. It's a nailed on classic.

Of course, I'd forgotten how frustrating it is at the start. Beginning disorientated and confused in a dark tunnel, I immediately encounter a hapless dwarf and it soon becomes evident I am some kind of gigantic scaled, clawed creature as my attempts to communicate result in the terrified dwarf stabbing me and in response I accidentally kill him. From there, instinct takes over. I wander the tunnels at random, breaking through a door and killing another monstrosity within, before chancing upon a hobbit who I immediately and horrifyingly devour. I'm finishing off the little chap when a dark elf appears in the tunnel and fires arrows at me - the dice tell me I run away in terror, and as I dash down the tunnel I'm shot and killed by a bunch more elves. Game over.

With almost all the initial choices controlled by the dice, it looks like I'm going to be dying in this one a LOT. Worth persevering with though!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 05 January, 2023, 05:24:07 PM
The evolution of your character during the first phase of the book is brilliant, and certainly makes this book stand out. (It's not exactly fair at first, but the bit where your decisions don't count is only for a short bit.)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: norton canes on 05 January, 2023, 05:48:22 PM
Browsing through this thread for the first time last night reignited my childhood fondness for the Fighting Fantasy books so this afternoon, on a whim, I downloaded a PDF of City of Thieves and embarked on my first adventure, using a dynamic online character sheet. Despite rolling an initial SKILL of 7 I managed to scrape past several encounters before finally meeting my end in a sewer where I was rapidly despatched by a giant centipede with a SKILL of 10. The text gave me an option to use an insect bracelet, which I didn't have and anyway suspect may have had little effect against an arthropod.

Good fun anyway, and I might give it another crack later.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: norton canes on 05 January, 2023, 10:30:46 PM
Second attempt: killed by the Serpent Queen. I was a little too honest when declaring the origin of my floral gift.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 January, 2023, 10:12:25 AM
Quote from: norton canes on 05 January, 2023, 10:30:46 PM
Second attempt: killed by the Serpent Queen. I was a little too honest when declaring the origin of my floral gift.

I think the Serpent Queen killed most of us doing playthroughs too. Stupid sexy snake-lady!

Elsewhere I finally made it out of the dungeon in Creature of Havoc on my 9th attempt. Then immediately died.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 07 January, 2023, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 05 January, 2023, 11:47:53 AM
I'm not familiar with those, but they do sound younger reader-esque. Let us know if any good!

Mungo is the MVP. The real poster boy for FF companions. Given (in fact, probably because) he's only alive for a couple of paragraphs its mad how much of a legend he is.

Ha ha, I had no idea Mungo was such a legend. To be fair the book does establish your history with him and what a sound bloke he is, telling stories of his dad (also called Mungo) and sharing copious amounts of salad with you. I quite like it in FF when you have a buddy along with you for a wee while!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 January, 2023, 10:01:41 AM
So I finished Creature of Havoc over the weekend. I died 18 times in total, including being shot by elves, falling into traps, blinded by beetles and then falling into traps, falling into rivers, falling into a furnace, starving to death, being mugged and dissected, guillotined, drowned in quicksand and murdered by trees. It'll take me a while to write it all up, but I wanted to get my thoughts down on it early as I thought it was every bit as good as its reputation.

It was a blast. The dungeon is definitely the most characterful bit of the book, and the first part of it is the best bit of that - it's the bit that really brings home that you're playing a monster, working on instinct and unable to understand a lot of things. I really like the way that as you gain sentience it's not signposted but the writing itself changes - you're never told you don't have to roll for you actions, you just get to start choosing them, and likewise you're never told that your intelligence has increased, the text just starts naming objects instead of just describing them and so on (for example, gold pieces and weapons are named and so on). It's also the best bit for you as a monster being particularly horrifying - eating your foes and dispatching them in grisly fashion and so on. Once you, as a player, get out of the dungeon things fall into a more standard FF book on the whole and it's easy to forget you're a gigantic, scaled beast on the whole (apart from a part where you try and help a hobbit only to fall prey to your instinct and kill and eat him anyway!). I was however glad to have to stop translating paragraphs out of their coded writing.

The combat isn't too difficult - there's a couple of tricky fights, but on the whole everything is weaker than you and being able to kill an opponent on a roll of a double means you've always got a chance of winning quickly and therefore is quite evocative about being a fearsome combatant: I never shied away from attacking things (quite the opposite) The book itself is super tightly plotted and tight with its victory conditions: within the dungeon you can, to an extent, wander at will as there'sd a few opportunities to double back, but once outside the wrong choice always leads to death.
My notes recorded NINE hidden paragraph number puzzles (as in, if this happens, add or subtract a number and turn to a new paragraph), some of which are used more than once, plus the code revealing a handful of other hidden paragraphs, which makes this the most crazily, cleverly constructed book to date, I think. Combine this with the usual sort of puzzles and half-clues, plus a sneaky bit where a signpost has been changed (I only noticed this because I'd come from one location so realised it was wrong) and you've got a book that's quite taxing puzzle-wise, but deeply satisfying when solved, and it makes for a really fun experience. It's amazingly hard, but not in the way MoM was where it was a relentless slog to move a few paragraphs forward. I really like the opening background too: a lot of what's presented to you is useless to the story but provide a background that means events in the book itself are set into context and so make sense instead of feeling random or arbitrary and when you start piecing things together - the reason for the dwarf and the adventurers being in the dungeon and so on - it likewise feels satisfying.

The downside? The end is a bit of an anticlimax. And of course, there's a single, legendary paragraph where you're told to look for certain wording to do an action, but the wording is different. I understand this was changed for a later edition, so I assume it's an error - I knew about it from previous reading this time, but as a kid couldn't get past this bit at all. Your companion, when you pick him up, is a total Mungo.

Oh, and the art from Alan Langford rules. My favourite picture is the Chattermatter, where if you look at the image there's a nice visual clue to something not being right with the scene... personally, I'm not a fan of the Ian Miller cover - I've grown to appreciate his stuff as I got older but it feels like a static and unexciting image when something a lot more dramatic would have been cool here given the content: I actually prefer the reprint cover with the Devourer. I'd be interested to see an artists impression of the creature of havoc itself - the little snippets of description we get (huge bulk, heavy head, claws and scales, spined back, lumbering footsteps and fanged maw) always puts me in mind of something like a mini-Godzilla...

It also feels like the series is maturing a bit. The descriptive, detailed writing brings the awful people and places you encounter to life and it's all very grim. There's a bit at the start where you can blind a wizard with a swipe of your claws, finish fighting his mates and then eventually finish him off as he's whimpering on the floor and devour him sets the scene for a cavalcade of horrors. I've read that some foreign translations don't have you, as the monster, eating people (especially helpless hobbits or apothecaries and so on) but their provisions instead.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 09 January, 2023, 10:31:25 AM
I don't imagine I'll ever give gamebooks another go, but I've really taken to these write-ups.
Please carry on.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 January, 2023, 03:44:35 PM
Quote from: JWare on 09 January, 2023, 10:31:25 AM
I don't imagine I'll ever give gamebooks another go, but I've really taken to these write-ups.
Please carry on.

It shall be done.

Creature of Havoc: Attempt 2
I awaken again, confused and in pain. Hearing the sniffling of the wounded dwarf up the passageway I lumber up to him, but this time raise my foot over his head - he screams in horror as I stamp on him and then rifle through his meagre possessions with my clumsy claws, tearing his clothing and pouches apart to get into them. I don't understand what most of the things he carries are, but I am fascinated by a strange hide covered with markings and decide to take it with me.
I wander West until I hear noises up ahead and rush towards the source of the sound with claws and teeth bared. It's three adventurers - a human in clinking armour, another in soft red robes, and a little hobbit. Unable to control myself I fall upon the hobbit and kill him but before I can eat him I must deal with the other two humans. A luck test see's me blind the wizard with a single swipe before battling the other and crushing him with my great strength. It is then simple to finish off the wizard as he crawled blinded about the floor and eat him and the hobbit both whilst they are still warm.
Wandering further west, swiping at tiny, squeaking flying beasts, I find a door but wander off, returning only after I have been struck in the eye by a bat, reducing my Skill temporarily. Furious I rush to the door and knock it down, finding some strange creatures within eating the remains of some orcs and adventurers. I make short work of these, then decline to eat the carrion - the orcs and humans are too long dead - but in my fumbling break a vial that one carried releasing a strange vapour within that forms a face and speaks to me. I cannot understand the words, and swipe at it angrily until it fades. Although I do not know it, I have inhaled one of the three magic vapours of Stittle Woad, granting me the power of reason, and my actions are no longer randomly determined.
I continue wandering without direction, chancing upon three more human adventurers and making short work of them. One was wearing an ugly pendant which fascinates me - I take it and force it over my huge neck.
Leaving the rest of their rubbish behind I descend a cliff over a stinking underground river, taking care with my giant feet on the human-sized steps, turn West, because I like going west, then amble around the dungeon complex looking for food or a fight. Hitting a dead end, the stolen pendant glows and hums, revealing a secret door, which I pass through and find a room full of strange boxes. The boxes smell bad: I bust one open and discover a dead creature inside - that is not so dead after all! I cannot understand its words but am mesmerised by its dreadful gaze as it forces me from the room, my physical statistics much reduced by its dire curse.
After more nocturnal wanderings where I cross a bridge and kill a 'Manic Beast' - some kind of flesh-eating crazed shaggy humanoid which tastes bitter and not to my liking - I find a room with voices inside and hoping for more hobbits, burst in only to find it empty - before a mysterious voice rings out, speaking first in languages I do not understand before suddenly, miraculously, making sense! The voice promises me some juicy hobbits and information if I come into its alcove, but peeking in I see a scene not to my liking and instead lumber off. After being strangely bathed in Elven dust I head South where I fall foul of a sort of living pit trap that moves and swallows me up, sending to me to my death.

Attempts 3, 4 and 5.
After blundering to my death twice due to random movement, I decide to restart after getting the power of reason from now on. This time I try a different route, kill and eat three more hobbits, but wander into a room full of bugs who do not like their nest to be poked by clawed monsters. They flare up, blinding me, and I stagger out into another deadly trap.

Attempt 6
I restart from the power of reason part again, take a different route and fall down a hole into a dark, straw-filled room where I get the choice of a crystal rock or a shield. I take the latter - it will help with my reduced skill from the bat impact. I keep wandering, going West where possible, until I run into another pair of armed humans and make short work of them. One of them carefully put down a sack before combat, so I upend it, smashing another bottle and releasing another odd vapour.  This one gives me the gift of language and enables me to translate the words of others (via a code) although I cannot speak. After translating the hide I took from the dwarf at the start, which talks about finding the three vapours, I head off, encounter a Rhino Man who, now I can understand speech, gives me a message for his mate should I ever meet him (I never do) and some advice on where to go. After more maze-navigation I end up in a room with a blind, aged human and two orcs. After I finish killing the puny orcs the human, not knowing what I am, begs for help - he is Hannicus, servant of Zharradan Marr (the main bad guy, a vivisectionist wizard dude) and the former custodian of these tunnels and mines, who was displaced by the half-elf lich Darramouss as per the long book intro when Marr grew weary of him. He offers to guide me to Darramouss, warns me of the Chattermatter (the tempting voice from playthrough 2) and gives me a magic ring which, when smashed, will do something cool that proves fatal to Darramouss. He asks for the ring back but, seeing no value in this human now, I just take it and leave him to his fate.
From here I'm back in the room with the boxes. This time, instead of opening them, I hurl them into the river, delighting myself as the reader in the knowledge that they were full of undead witches. I avoid the manic beast, bust into some kind of library and read up on Marr, discovering he prefers to live in a weird netherworld dimension within a magic mirror, and that said mirror should only be destroyed by a crystal club - looks like I missed that, oops!
Next I find an orb, within which Darrmouss appears and threatens me, so I run off. My dead-end spotting amulet reveals another secret door to me, within which is a room full of skeletons. I wander in, the door closes and am forced to stay there until I die. Death!

Attempt 7
I restart at the power of reason, this time get the crystal club, but then try a different route and get killed by an animated shadow after I try to make friends with it, a choice I only made because I thought my godzilla / Klegg monster trying to make friends with anything would be hilarious.

Attempt 8
Restart as usual, get the club, kill the humans and get the power of language, retrace my steps to Hannicus and take his ring, throw the boxed witches in the river, go to the library, this time take Hannicus's advice though and go past the Chattermatter, get bathed in Elven dust, find another secret door and end up running into Darramouss himself. He is stunned that I have acquired understanding of language, and takes his time sneering at me and telling me I was created by Zarradan Marr as an experiment. He offers me the choice of servitude in Marr's mines or death - neither good options - so I smash open Hannicus's ring and sweet smelling holy gas flows out and kills off the undead taskmaster befor ehe can flee. Hurray!
I've made progress but I still don't really know where I'm going, so I continue to blunder about, kill a few things and eat them before finding a big iron door. I knock, a dark elf answers and starts asking why I'm here and not in the mines, so I bust in and rip him up but not before he summons help. I end up caught in a loop, bouncing between the same few paragraphs with endless reinforcements pouring in until I am overwhelmed and die.

Attempt 9
This time I restart after I kill Darramouss and take a different route and head down to the mines. It's full of evil types forcing enslaved humans, elves etc to work for Marr's war effort. I don't think I'll be welcome here, so I try to creep about but as you'd guess I'm not very stealthy - I run into a hobbit, who of course I kill, and wind up joining the ranks of the slaves.

More of this later, when I finally get to the surface and proceed to die in more terrible ways!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 09 January, 2023, 03:55:41 PM
18 is a respectable score for such a hard book!

QuoteI was however glad to have to stop translating paragraphs out of their coded writing.

I wish I'd remembered that earlier -- I still have my translations from the last time I played this book years ago! It's too late to help you now, but I'll leave them here in case others want them. Sorry about that!

Para 7
[spoiler]"Have mercy upon a blind man whoever you are. If you are friend then lead me from this place. If you are foe then leave me be. You are strangely silent. Who are you. Do you understand me. My god intruder. If your plan is to do away with me then do it quickly. Otherwise be off with you.[/spoiler]

Para 79
[spoiler]"Yellowstone Mines this way."[/spoiler]

Para 86
[spoiler]"Control its mind shaman! It may be able to lead us to that Swinebeard cur!"[/spoiler]

Para 104
[spoiler]"Over here. Come here if you want to learn of great riches in these parts. Do you understand the human tongue? Perhaps then you speak the troll language..."[/spoiler]

Para 147
[spoiler]"I have been awakened from my slumber! Who calls on the vapour of tongues. The heavenly bodies have taken their positions. My gift is granted. For better or for worse my release bestows on you the understanding you desire. May you use your gift wisely."[/spoiler]

Para 155
[spoiler]"Foolish creature. Did you think you could thieve the orb of Daramouss? None may touch my sacred crystal for it is my eyes and ears. And my weapons as you shall see.[/spoiler]

Para 160
[spoiler]"Control its mind shaman! It may be able to lead us to that Swinebeard cur!"[/spoiler]

Para 185
[spoiler]"Leave me alone."[/spoiler]

Para 192
[spoiler]"Biography of Z Marr page ninety three:... thus came Marr to abandon the physical world and take refuge in his own. A strange netherworld which occupies no space in the world we mortals know. A world of illusion in which where he appears to be he is not. And a world in which those searching for him would instead find themselves. He has but one weakness in his new world and that is a crystal club which may be used to destroy forever the gateway between our world and his." If at some time in the future you believe you have located the entrance to Marr's netherworld deduct the page number above from the reference you are on at the time and turn to this reference. If you are correct you will meet the necromancer. For having the good fortune to find this parchment you may restore your luck score to its Initial level.[/spoiler]

Para 217
[spoiler]Who disturbs the rest of the cursewitches. Foul creature you dabble with what you do not understand. None may interfere with our peace save for Zharradan Marr the master. You must be taught to respect the sleep of the undead and you must be made to feel the wrath of the cursewitches."[/spoiler]

Para 241
[spoiler]"Who is it. What is happening. What has disturbed us. Please god release this black eye curse."[/spoiler]

Para 337
[spoiler]"Swinebeard of Yore. You have been found guilty of the crime of wilful and malicious arson a most serious offence in the dry region of Salamonis. As punishment you are sentenced to undertake a perilous mission of recovery. You must travel northwards and enter the underground domain of Zharradan Marr there to seek out and recover flasks containing swirling vapours. These are the vapours of Stittle Woad. You must find the three flasks containing these vapours and return them to this court. ON NO ACCOUNT MUST THEY BE OPENED. This is the sentence of the court and the geas has been caset. This is your punishment. You must succeed in your mission or die in the attempt."

"Vapour of knowledge / - Flaxenmane of Silverton = / - Winged helmet.[/spoiler]

Para 364
[spoiler]"Keep away from me."[/spoiler]

Para 369
[spoiler]"Your progress has been watched foul creature of destruction. So far you have done well though you know not why or what. But you have caused two of the vapours to be lost. Zharradan Marr himself has decreed your destiny. You shall remain in his dungeons and do my bidding. For I am Daramouss your master." If you can understand him turn to reference ninety. "Your first order is this. Report for duty at the Yellowstone Mines. Leave now and head there immediately. I will be watching."[/spoiler]

Para 382
[spoiler]"I am released from my rest. Foul creature what do you know of the forces with which you tamper. But nonetheless my purpose is ordained. I bestow on you the power of reason. From now on you are in control of your own destiny. And now - may I return to my peaceful rest until once more the heavens take their positions."[/spoiler]

Para 392
[spoiler]"You are now under my control foul creature."

"All my wishes are your commands. Gather my comrades and follow me!"[/spoiler]

Para 425
[spoiler]"Yellowstone Mines. Sergeants and slaves only."

"No need to boil your blood. What is it you want in the mines. If its work then come back tomorrow. A few of the slaves will doubtless die today."[/spoiler]

Para 435
[spoiler]"Come on then. What business have you here. Answer quickly." If you can understand the creature turn immediately to reference sixty two. "Lost your tongue eh. Then begone. Be off with you before I decide to have a little battle practice."[/spoiler]

Para 441
[spoiler]"Yellowstone Mines this way."[/spoiler]


Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 09 January, 2023, 04:14:29 PM
QuoteI try to make friends with it, a choice I only made because I thought my godzilla / Klegg monster trying to make friends with anything would be hilarious.

You've been reading too many Sensitive Klegg stories!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2023, 09:43:09 AM
Quote from: Richard on 09 January, 2023, 04:14:29 PM
You've been reading too many Sensitive Klegg stories!

Can such a thing be?
That's awesome work on the translations, thank you - incredibly useful for anyone else attempting it. I'm a big fan of how if you go back and translate the early stuff it links some stuff together, eg. the first set of adventurers you meet are looking for the dwarf, who in turn is looking for the guy that the little invisible monsters are eating.
And I think it would have taken me way more than 18 attempts had I not made liberal use of 'save points' for restarting to stop myself going nuts playing it over the course of a week!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 January, 2023, 10:16:05 AM
Second part of my Creature of Havoc playthrough...

Attempt 10
To avoid lengthy replaying, and given most combats are no threat to me, I decide to restart after killing Darramouss. This time I attempt to blag my way out of the dungeon by nodding and offering a toothy grin when asked if I'm allowed to pass. The guard asks me to give a secret a sign: I don't know this, so I just stand there and very fortunately for me he runs off to check with Darramouss (who I melted) and then comes back, says he can't find him and offers to let me past if I give him my secret door finding amulet. I happily hand this over, he unlocks a huge door and soon I'm climbing the steps to the surface! At last my bat-inflicted injury is healed! Once my eyes have adjusted to the moonlight I find myself standing in a field full of strange stones. This being an obvious graveyard I decide against any vandalism / exploration here and instead head off to the ruined church where I am shocked to encounter three sinister hags - the witch women of Dree!
The witches are not afraid of me and instead begin cackling about destiny and the like, but the price of their aid will be to bring them some Sculliweed root. I have no clue what this is, but so I nod and smile at them too until they fade away into nothingness.
The next day I head West, but a mysterious talking raven warns me off continuing that way and figuring it may be a beast of the witches I heed its advice and turn around and slump off to the cursed village of Dree. This place is foul beyond belief: many of the inhabitants are obvious crones, whilst the rest are hideous mutants or Moreaux-like creations, hopping or crawling in the streets like animals, reaching for me with septic, oozing limbs and gurgling as they cannot speak. It's a place of horror and as I am making my way through its streets without warning I am seized, caught in a net and harvested whilst still alive for my organs (frustrated I cheat, go back a paragraph to take a different route and still die. There's nothing but death in Dree)

Attempt 11
This time I check out the graveyard, walk on the wrong grave and predictably set off a horde of zombies. Attempting to escape via a tunnel back down into the dungeon I end up dropping into a huge furnace and being burned alive.

Attempt 12
I skip to the surface, get the quest from the witches and this time make my way to the village of Coven. I know from the intro this lies within Marr's territory, and I suppose for that reason the people don't seem that bothered to have a giant monster strolling about. I decide to go see an aged apothecary, hoping he can help me with finding this mysterious root: he is brewing some concoction and tries to keep me waiting for ages until I lose my rag and throw his boiling potion in his face, blinding him. His whimpers anger me so I put him out of his misery, eat him, and head out of Coven. On the way out I find a dead half orc, so I sling him over my shoulder in case I want to eat him later too.
I soon find a small hut - entering (presumably dragging my half eaten half orc with me) I am greeted by Rosina of Dree, another witch, who offers to tell my fortune. I took some money from the orc, and now understand the concept of money, so I agree. She is remarkably calm to read cards for a huge carnivorous monster and gives me lots of foreshadowing - she is also able to see that I am on a quest for her sisters and tells me the Sculliweed root is blue, before gifting me a magic rope to aid me. I sleep rough, and the next day avoid a tricked out signpost that would have sent me back to Dree and head into the muddy swamps where the object of my quest must surely grow.
There are large, webbed footprints here which I follow - straight into some quicksand. As a large, uncoordinated creature it looks like I'm doomed until I remember - magic rope! I use the rope to escape, although it is lost, and press deeper into the murk, eventually encountering a monstrous Toadman - a creature almost as large as me. Obviously I kill it, but before long the swamps are full of toadmen and I fall to their numbers before being dropped into the quicksand for another horrible end.

Attempt 13
In an attempt to avoid burnout, I skip to Coven, don't visit the apothecary but instead head west out of the village. This time I am surprised to see a fight in progress: a half orc, presumably the one whose corpse I was dragging about earlier, is in the process of being beaten to death by a human whist a crowd cheers him on. I've tried to embrace being a monster so far so without warning I leap into the fray and disembowel the human with a single (lucky) swipe of my claws. This means out come the pitchforks, so the half orc and I leg it. Once a safe distance away he introduces himself as Grognag Clawtooth - he's practically a beggar, and not exactly a decent sort, admitting he'd have left me to die where I him and that the human was attacking him for eating his dog alive. He suggests we stick together, and the book here uses a neat little mechanic whereby instructions to turn to certain paragraphs change if he is with me and he gives a comment like 'maybe we shouldn't go that way'. He retrieves a mysterious bag of 'family heirlooms' from where he had previously hidden it and starts chatting away, asking where I am headed and what I am after. Eventually working out I am looking for someone he suggests we head off to see Rosina. Back on track!
After having my fortune told, Grog and I head into the swamp, where he proves his worth by helping me avoid quicksand (I'm just thumping about like an idiot) and steering me away from the toadman encounter. Grog is useful!  We pick the flowers - remembering they are the blue ones - and then get ambushed again by toadmen. I think Grog has fled and am just about to go down under weight of numbers again when he leaps out in a flanking attack and flying kicks the toadman chief into the quicksand, scattering the stupid toadmen. Yes! Sadly in doing this Grog has taken a trident to the neck and dies in my arms. No! Groooooog! I take his bag and run off whilst the toadmen are in toad turmoil. It contains a wooden box with a vial inside it, but I am too clumsy to open it with my monster sausage fingers. I keep it with me anyway. RIP Grog, absolutely the most useful Mungo for ages.
That night the witch women appear to me in a dream. Having brought them the Sculliweed, they reveal to me that they seek the downfall of Zharradan Marr, although 'he is their creation as I am his': they instruct me to get close to Marr to defeat him, and to seek out the elf Daga Weaseltongue in Knott Oak Wood who will help me do that. As you'd guess from his name he is a famous liar so they give me a ring to compel truths from him and tell me to ride the Ophidiotaur to find him. Eh?
I awaken in Knott Oak Wood where I soon find a gigantic dinosaur. Electing not to attack for once, I make friends with the creature, and it leads me deeper into the forest where an elf is beating beaten up by brigands. It's an easy task to kill the brigands. Daga, for it is he, immediately starts lying, but the ring of truth puts him right and he is compelled to tell me about how to get to Marr via his huge magic flying pirate ship, the Galleykeep. I have two options: find the testing grounds, where Marr will be recruiting crew for the Galleykeep, or (and this sounds like the way worse way) find a trap they've laid for animals and get myself caught in it: it's like a snare or net attached to a trebuchet like device that will sort of catapult me onto the Galleykeep and then go on the rampage. This idea is mad. He also gives me a confusing riddle to enable me to find Marr when onboard.
Sadly there is no option here to kill and eat Daga so I let him go. Deciding to look for the testing grounds I eventually wind up caught in a trap and dangling upside down from a tree. I hang there all night until the Galleykeep arrives and in my weakened state they guillotine me and harvest me for meat. Grim!

Attempt 14
I restart at Daga and try a different path through the forest. Here I encounter a hapless hobbit, tied up and left to die. He pleads to be let live, saying he will tell me all about the paths ahead, so I cut the little chap down, only for my instinct to take over and to suddenly kill and eat him instead. I head deeper and deeper into the woods only to find the path twisting and vanishing behind me. I am being herded by the trees themselves, who don't like monsters in their forest, and they proceed to turn me into fertilizer.

Attempt 15, 16
Restart at Daga, different route, this time I spot the Galleykeep but fail a luck test and end up back in a snare. This time however I am not weakened, and when the ship grows near I activate the trap to catapult myself up to it in what has to be the maddest bit of the book. Some goblins bring me in and make to guillotine me, but I quickly slay them and charge below where I am given the choice of five doors.
Suffice to say Daga's riddle is not much help and I choose the wrong door twice. Each time this kills me in a suitably crazy way, from being stuck in a sealed room with a curse that forces me to kill and eat anyone who comes in to battling Quimmel Bone the undying (any relation to Zanbar Bone?) in a fight that literally can never end until I run out of stamina.
Can we just take a minute here to acknowledge that I have catapulted myself onto a giant flying magic pirate ship. So cool.

Attempt 17
I chose the right door this time but ended up playing with a telescope like an idiot until I got caught by hobgoblins. Less said about this one the better.

Attempt 18 - Victory!
FINALLY! REstart on the Gallyekeep. I choose the right door and find myself in what appears to be a disused naval captain's cabin, its contents thick with dust and cobwebs. I'm shocked to see a monster inside but it turns out this is just a mirror. Who lives in a mirror? Zharradan Marr! I concentrate on the mirror and Marr appears before me, sitting smugly in his mirror dimension. He chuckles evilly as he reveals he is delighted that I was able to get to the Galleykeep and confront him - for this means I am the perfect blueprint for more monsters to be created to form his evil army (if this was a test it was a poor one). He monologues away, revealing that I was once the captain of the Galleykeep before Marr captured it and subjected me to his awful experiments that made me a monster. He implies that others of my crew where also experimented upon, made anew and dropped into his dungeon - a nasty little twist that means I was killing and eating all my friends at the start of the book. As I stand in shock he leans half out of the mirror and demands that I give him none other than Grog's bag. It seems I've brought him the third and most powerful of the vapours, which will grant him eternal life! How on earth did Grog get that?
(I did peek to see what happens if you give him the box here. Marr makes me his general and we go on the rampage. It's a sort of win, but instead...)
..I refuse to give him the vial. Enraged, Marr starts to cast a spell, but the Elven dust I encountered all that time ago, and had totally forgotten about, disrupts his power momentarily. Marr starts yelling threats and promises of riches, I whip out the crystal club and smash his mirror to bits, trapping him in a limbo dimension for all eternity! In your face Zharradan Marr! Weirdly Marr knew all about big chunks of my adventure but not that I had the club or had been in the Elf dust, the big dope.

Weirdly I then turn back into a human and take over the Galleykeep again! Hooray, I guess! It's full of monsters who apparently 'will obey me' even though I'm now a weak, naked human and their numbers include the likes of undead vivisection king Quimmel Bone and something called the Master of Hellfire. This bit felt a bit like a tacked on happy ending tbh but what the heck.

What a great book!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 January, 2023, 08:09:26 PM
What a great write-up! I almost feel like I've just re-read the book. I think I'll still give it a go myself soon. It certainly is one of the best.

The catapult to the Galleykeep must have felt like a swashbuckling Indiana Jones moment! (The Galleykeep is cool, there's a brilliant illustration of it in The Trolltooth Wars.)

You were right to go that way; the [spoiler]training grounds[/spoiler] are a dead end if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 January, 2023, 10:52:14 AM
Thanks for the kind words. You should definitely play it: I'm of the opinion everyone should play it tbh but I'm a big nerd. Up to a point I assumed I'd missed something vital at the [spoiler]training grounds[/spoiler], as I had the number puzzle from the rhino man to use there.

I'm reading the Trolltooth Wars at the moment on my commute!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 12 January, 2023, 01:51:19 PM
Even though that's not a gamebook you should still write us a review when you've finished it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 12 January, 2023, 02:07:22 PM
I need to go back again to Creature of Havoc. I attempted something like 8 playthroughs before I fell off the FF wagon late last summer, and just about made it to the end of the opening dungeon (having to break my own rule and make a map in order to do so). Didn't bother with the usual write-up as it's not the usual sort of book! Needless to say it's rather superb, though - something really quite special within the series, and a more than worthy swansong for Steve Jackson.

In many ways it feels like the (normally quite fair) Steve doing an Ian Livingstone – there's plenty of insta-death choices to be made, and given the random die rolls at the start, you experiencing plenty of them! It also feels – although I don't know – as though there's maybe a One True Path at work, too. He even borrows the new mechanic from Trial of Champions (i.e. Roll a die. 1-4 go to X. 5-6 go to Y.) But whereas all this turned me off from Sir Ian's books – 2 attempts apiece at Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial of Champions were enough for me – I kept going with Creature of Havoc, compelled by the unusual narrative. If I'd been the usual leather-armoured adventurer trying to track down an evil sorcerer I'm not sure I'd have bothered. 7.5 combat dice out of 10 (maybe higher if I can get a bit further and see what it was all about!)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 12 January, 2023, 11:44:42 PM
It just gets better and better.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 January, 2023, 10:13:29 AM
Quote from: Richard on 12 January, 2023, 01:51:19 PM
Even though that's not a gamebook you should still write us a review when you've finished it!

I finished The Trolltooth Wars yesterday and I have to say this is on the whole a bad book. It's just not very well written: the prose is fairly basic and very dry, with little sense of character, atmosphere, tension or excitement. The protagonist is a unlikeable thug and his sidekick is annoying. The third member of the party, who gets bigged up as this super adventurer, is a total chump. The plot is fairly straightforward, and the ending is a deus ex machina move of the very worst sort.

As a big FF nerd however, I did really enjoy all the references to old FF lore: places, characters and creatures and especially the fleshing out of Marr, Dire and Zagor, and to see things in a wider context than the specific books where they appear. The three sorcerers are easily better and more interesting characters than Darkmane and if the whole book had just alternated chapters about them would have been a lot better. The battle at the pass itself was cool. I'm not really sure where this is set in terms of FF timeline? You'd think it would be before Warlock, Chaos or Havoc, but I'm pretty sure Roue is implied to be alive in the latter and he dies here.
The art is also absolutely stupendous though and more than worth the few pounds I paid for the book. Fantastic rendition of the Galleykeep especially.

I'd probably recommend it to someone deep in the fandom as then all the worldbuilding is a delight and you can overlook what a slog big chunks of it are to read. To a casual reader it would likely be tedious nonsense and should be avoided at all costs. Bit of a mixed bag then!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 January, 2023, 11:38:40 AM
Oh dear! I think I enjoyed it more than you did!

I think the only way to reconcile this book with Creature of Havoc is to say that your character winning CoH is the non-canonical ending, and actually you never make it back to the Galleykeep! Which is a bit bleak, but statistically speaking entirely likely.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 January, 2023, 02:08:12 PM
Sorry dude! What I was trying to put across was that I enjoyed it, but also thought it was objectively pretty bad, if that makes sense. I think the setup - the two warring wizards, the Galleykeep and so on - is great.
Have you read the graphic novel version of the book? I spotted it on Etsy.

Quote from: Richard on 17 January, 2023, 11:38:40 AM
I think the only way to reconcile this book with Creature of Havoc is to say that your character winning CoH is the non-canonical ending, and actually you never make it back to the Galleykeep! Which is a bit bleak, but statistically speaking entirely likely.

This makes a ton of sense, especially as any other reading would have Marr being trapped in his mirror twice!

Anyway I'm playing some Lone Wolf before I move onto Nightmare Castle, which gives everyone more time to play CoH and write up their inevitable deaths.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 19 January, 2023, 11:07:18 PM
The graphic novel artwork looks a bit too cartoony for my tastes, especially compared with the illustrations in the prose novel.

I'm a bit worried about Russ Nicholson actually; he hasn't blogged in nearly three years. I hope he hasn't died!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 January, 2023, 10:53:14 AM
Someone told me he was supposed to be at Fighting Fantasy Fest last year but couldn't attend due to health, but I've just had a dig around on the internet and can't find any mention of him being announced so that may not have been correct. I'm pretty sure he's still with us though!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 January, 2023, 04:50:31 PM
I've completed the two Lone Wolf books I got for Christmas although I didn't take notes or do a playthrough as I quite fancied a more relaxed read. Unsurprisingly these had a lot of the same pros and cons as the Freeway Warrior series, as they're by the same author - they're well written, with a ton of background, a continuing story where items and choices carry over from book to book and the choices tend to reward thought rather than randomness. On the flipside it's the same annoying combat system (a D10 and a table) and there's a lot of 'false choices' where you're given two options but both will steer you in the direction the story demands.. but my major issue with these is that they were very easy. I rolled good combat skill (although low stamina), made some sensible skill choices and as a result completed both on my second attempt. The sixth sense skill in particular was hugely valuable.

It's weird to complain that a gamebook is easy, especially when it's easy as a result of making sensible choices, but I felt a little short-changed after whipping through both with ease. I wouldn't mind finishing the first 'cycle' but I think I'll stick with FF for my gamebook fix for now. Anyone else got any experience of these?

Oh, and some gorgeous artwork by the sublime Gary Chalk!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 January, 2023, 05:37:21 PM
I played the first two Lone Wolf books a couple of years ago, but didn't buy any more after that because online reviews of the third book put me off. I also re-read the tenth one, which I got as a teenager.

The first two are pretty easy, but are very well written and did make it feel as though I was exploring a real world. The tenth one is impossibly hard!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 23 January, 2023, 10:35:24 PM
Lone Wolf, I found fascinating and loved to play - but the balance was all over the place. The first book has lots of different paths to success, and not too many choices that you'd need for later. It's fun to pick up the Crystal Star Pendant, because that crops up a few times later on [spoiler]as a recognition tool for bumping into Banedon[/spoiler] but isn't vital.

Fire on the Water does have a one-true-path section, which can fuck you up if you don't have the magic item to defeat the particular undead threat. Gaining the Sommerswerd makes you nigh-on invincible in nearly every fight you get into after that point, but then the balance bafflers get muddled in Book 6 and you have to cheat the RNG gods to win.

I enjoyed book 3 (The Caverns of Kalte), and it offers up a couple of important special items - even if it opens with a multiple-Mungo scenario. [spoiler]Don't miss out on the +2CS Silver Helm and the Kalte Firesphere that works as a perma-torch.[/spoiler]

Book 4 (The Chasm of Doom) introduces the idea of you being in charge of a larger force, then drops you into the middle of a major battle, and #5 (Shadow on the Sand) takes all your toys away [spoiler](but you can find them again if you look in the right place)[/spoiler] and has you face off in combat against a major foe [spoiler](Darklord Haaken)[/spoiler].

At that point you've become a Magnakai, and if you're having fun can continue your adventure with super-versions of the Kai Disciplines to collect - and you start with only three of them! You get to visit more distant lands, win a cool magic bow, lose all your stuff again in the Deathtrap Dungeon-like book #7 and get involved in a sort of continent-wide resurgence of the Drakkarim.

After defeating the ultimate evil in the final book (12), you find that (as a Grand Master) there are even more super-powered skills to learn in books 13-20. Amusingly, the things you have to fight in the opening section of Book #13 will eat you up and spit out your bones without breaking sweat - especially if you happen to still be carrying the Sommerswerd. So, y'know, ultimate evils are all about perspective. But Time Bandits taught us that.

And on it goes...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 January, 2023, 10:47:29 AM
Cheers Funt, that's actually piqued my interest to try a few more: the Kai atrc sounds fun and I'm always down for more Mungos. I have a revised edition of book 1 which apparently expands the beginning with more fights, and was definitely the hardest part of the book.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 January, 2023, 10:35:24 PM
After defeating the ultimate evil in the final book (12), you find that (as a Grand Master) there are even more super-powered skills to learn in books 13-20. Amusingly, the things you have to fight in the opening section of Book #13 will eat you up and spit out your bones without breaking sweat - especially if you happen to still be carrying the Sommerswerd. So, y'know, ultimate evils are all about perspective. But Time Bandits taught us that.

This puts me in mind of back when I used to play Warcraft and a new expansion came out. I went from fighting the legendary Witch King and being all powerful to being outclassed by regular monsters. Stupid scaling difficulty.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 January, 2023, 07:00:38 PM
I'm assuming you know that there is access to most of the original books in an html format (something Joe Dever agreed to when he was still with us) at Project Aon (https://www.projectaon.org/en/Main/Home).

These include corrections to some original printed errors, but don't include things like the re-published extended opening sequence in Book 1. Mind you, I prefer the original, low-key opening because it ramps up the threats you meet (providing a narrative mystery), rather than having you in a full-blown battle in the opening scene.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 February, 2023, 05:23:43 PM
I have heard a lot of people say the revised start to Flight from the Dark is inferior to the original.
I do know about Project Aon but I really, really like playing these gamebooks as physical things. The posh versions of the revised Lone Wolf books are also things of beauty, but they're about £25 each so I can't buy a load of them, especially when I keep trying to get rare FF books on ebay.

Anyway, I have been playing Dracula: Curse of the Vampire by Jon Green. Having seen the lovely hardback version at FF fest earlier in the year I ordered this from Jon Green himself in a sale before Christmas, and it promptly got nicked off my doorstep whilst I was at work which led to a protracted claims process with Royal Mail, but to cut a long story short I finally got a replacement copy, just a few days after I caved in and bought a paperback copy from a local shop. The point of relating this story is that I have a spare, signed paperback copy if anyone is interested.

The book itself has a whacking 1,000 sections and allows you to play as four characters: Harker, Seward, Mina Murray or the Count himself. If playing as one of the first three you can switch characters at various points should you wish to change the narrative point of view and the story very closely follows the book - the whole book, in fact, sticks very close to Stoker's original work and eschews various cinematic interpretations. This means it's reasonably easy to choose on a correct path if you're familiar with the story, but there's enough new scenes, enemies and choices sprinkled in to keep it interesting. Whilst flicking through I've seen references to Varney the Vampire, Nosferatu, werewolves, and a picture that appears to have both Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing in it, so there's plenty of stuff to discover.
I have managed to die twice so far - once reasonably early on as Harker by plunging into a ravine attempting to escape the castle, and then after a longer and more satisfying playthrough as Seward, drained of blood and turned into a vampire by Lucy. If only I hadn't listened to Quincy's suggestion to split up..!
I haven't played as Dracula himself yet but in a way that looks the most interesting option.

It's a beautifully illustrated book and if you're a fan of Dracula and gamebooks I think it's definitely worth checking out.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 03 February, 2023, 07:02:36 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 February, 2023, 05:23:43 PMI really, really like playing these gamebooks as physical things.

I hear that. I used to own the first 17 books, but they were sacrificed on the pyre of my emigration. I bought the Mongoose versions of books 1-5, but their maps were pretty muddy (and a different style to the classics), and the covers not great either.

I shelled out for the Holmgard Press versions of Dead in the Deep and The Dusk of Eternal Night, which have beautiful maps on the reverse side of the dustcover. Very expensive, though - and biblically thick. I haven't actually played them, but maybe I'll get around to it before I shuffle off this mortal coil.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 February, 2023, 02:52:13 PM
It's the Holmgard Lone Wolf books I have. I can't really afford to get another atm but it's the sort of thing I might ask for as a gift - and they feel gift-worthy tbh, as they are, as you say, biblically thick.

Anyway, it's back to FF for me and I am venturing...

Beneath Nightmare Castle

Three attempts, three deaths so far! Here's my litany of failure.

The intro casts you as a down on their luck adventurer on their way to visit an old comrade in arms, Baron Toldur in his seat at the market town of Neuburg. The book then starts with you immediately getting caught by a gang of 'Southerners' - stock 80s sinister Arab types that you and Tholdur campaigned against - and dragged off to a dungeon which is where you start, blindfolded and tied hand and foot..

As I am coming to, a voice whispers to me in the darkness, offering to aid me and cut my bonds. I shift over and indicated and feel the rope cut from my wrist - removing the blindfold reveals I'm in a cellar, with only some stairs up and no sign of my mystery friend. A search of the cellar reveals nothing, but it does delay me for a fatal amount of time as the Southerners arrive, club me unconscious again and I am dragged off to be tortured to death by barely human, mutated monstrosities. DEATH number 1 in just a handful of moves. And so the tone is set!

Starting afresh, this time I flee the cellar at once, recovering my sword on the way. I'm in a tower on Neuburgs east gate, but from what I can see the place is deserted and silent, with not a soul to be seen and no sounds of bustle from the formerly busy town. The gatehouse itself is locked and I lack the strength to simply batter the door down, so instead I wait and ambush my captors when they open the door instead, cutting them down to a man (although I do take 2 wounds from a guy with skill 4) and fleeing into the town. There I do see signs of life, but the few people I do see are hastily barring their doors and windows. I find a tavern of my past acquaintance and after banging on the boards gain entry. The innkeeper, friendly once I reveal my link to the Baron, promptly fills me in on the tale of doom. The Baron returned from his last trip South with a bunch of sinister foreigners in tow and since then has secluded himself in his castle. Meanwhile people are vanishing throughout the town, and at night unknown things stalk the streets leaving strange tracks: the townsfolk hide in terror as those out after dark simply disappear, although sometimes odd tracks, or pools of blood, are left behind..
He urges me to remain indoors at night, and tomorrow to go visit Old Huw at the ruined temple. Obviously I don't do this, instead climbing out of my room at the first chance to stalk the deserted streets where I encounter the source of the townsfolks terror: eyeless, hairless clawed beasts, like huge dogs, but with bulbous distended stomachs and a mass of tentacles where a mouth should be. I kill two, but this leaves me on a single point of stamina so I climb back up into my room and hide under the covers until dawn.

The next day brings a hearty stamina-restoring breakfast and I decide to look about the town instead of heading straight for Tholdurs keep (the titular Nightmare Castle, one would assume) to find Old Huw in the temple district. Huw found (and he is old indeed) he fills me in with more exposition: Neuburg was once the site of a battle between the priests of Oiden (a nice god) and Xakhaz, archmange of the evil gods of Zagoula. Xakhaz was defeated and his spirit sealed beneath the castle: all was well until Tholdur took it into his head to visit Zagoula and came back with a wizard and some warriors in tow. It seems that Tholdur has fallen under the influence of said wizard and Xakhaz is on his way back, baby. Huw suggests I go up to the keep and sort it all out before Xakhaz powers up and that I would be well served to also locate the Talisman of Loth, a relic of Oiden that was last seen in the possession of the last guy to head up to the keep and stop Xakhaz.
Hiuw also mentions there could be a fragment of a powerful magic weapon in the junk stalls of Neubrug, so after getting some blessings from Oiden I head into town and off to the market. In the light of day things seem a little more normal here: I'm robbed by a child pickpocket (I do not give chase, as I have been told of the infamous section where you are set upon by, and must kill, a gang of starving children) and buy what looks like a garden fork, but is obviously the top of a trident, from an old goblin pedlar who gives me a hint that the shaft of the trident can also be found beneath the castle, as it was swallowed up by the earth in the battle there against Xarkhaz. I also pop down to the docks where the Southerners are unloading crates, one of which contains a mass of animated severed limbs - a true horror that I seal back in once I have fought them off.
This done I head up to the keep, where taking Huw's advice I avoid the front gate and instead take a side-entrance into an overgrown garden. It's here that I find a statue that, when a mechanism in it is activated, dispenses a strange green liquid. I drink some, only to discover it is concentrated magical fertiliser and I transform into a tree. DEATH #2

Third attempt: this time I follow more or less the same path, but I don't go out of my room at night, and when I get down to the docks, I push the crate of limbs into the canal without opening it. Heading back into the garden I encounter a sinister tree - another victim of a fertiliser accident, I suspect - who warns me off two of the towers around the garden and directs me to the gardener in a third. I enter the tower and kill a frenzied ogre wearing a funny hat, which upon close examination seems to be some sort of horrible alive gelatinous brain-eating parasite. Putting the ogre down enables me to free the gardener, who after we share some food reveals that I do indeed have part of a weapon (The fabled Trident of Skarlos) and not a garden fork, as well as showing me a secret entrance into the cellars.
Descending the dank, dripping tunnels below I am offered a choice of two paths - a dark tunnel into the cellars or a door held shut. I figure the rest of the trident is likely to be off the beaten track, so I take the door and head down further still into a moist, warm cavern complex. I kill some kind of blind bat monster, then climb up into cobwebbed, long deserted corridors and eventually find a cell containing two emaciated prisoners, chained and hooded. I free the first but when she opens her mouth tentacles erupt from it and she attacks me. I put the pitiful thing out of its misery and lock the door behind me.
Continuing on I navigate an obvious illusion trap (and a pit) and find myself at a door guarded by a pair of masked and riobed southern fighters. I have few options here and have to fight them: they are tough opponents and some poor dice rolls sees the second defeat me, cutting me down in the corridor. DEATH #3.


Loving this book. The atmosphere is totally different from previous books: Neuburg is very Warhammer old world-esque, and there's more than a creeping hint of both Howard and Lovecraft about the backstory, whilst the various horrors are more than a little Cthulhu mythos. The battles are not too tough - I was both unlucky and clumsy to die when I did - and the book feels logical so far rather than arbitrary. Best of all the plot feels compelling - it's quick moving but engrossing, atmospheric, more than a little gruesome, and the book is well written enough to be both creepy and slightly lighthearted with it's turn of phrase in places with it. Art is amazing. I'm going straight back to this when I have some free time later this week.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 February, 2023, 08:50:36 PM
Great write-up, it takes me back! I love this book, I'm glad you're getting into it. I love how unpleasant and grisly it gets in some places. I might skip to this book next and then come back to Creature of Havoc!

The artist's depiction of the tentacle-mouthed woman was deemed to be too unpleasant for a children's book, so it was left out. You can see it here though:

(https://i.imgur.io/QbqLNKM_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)


Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 February, 2023, 10:38:37 AM
That's a great image. I don't actually think it's worse than some in the book - the barrel full of heads, for example, or Xakhaz himself. It's definitely no worse than some of the images in Falcon: Rack of Baal! As a kid I think the only image I found a bit scary was the hanged dude in House of Hell. I think I would have loved this one.

And yeah, totally into this book. It's gory and atmospheric but it's also loads of fun to play. I did have another go yesterday, thought I was doing better but ended up getting absorbed by a horrible chair / blob. I feel like this and Creature of Havoc have been a real high point.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 February, 2023, 10:14:13 AM
So I've picked up a damaged copy of the two-player FF set Clash of Princes. The books are in a manky state, with ripped pages repaired with tape etc, but they're readable and playable.
Anyone fancy giving it a go?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 February, 2023, 02:25:31 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 15 February, 2023, 10:14:13 AMSo I've picked up a damaged copy of the two-player FF set Clash of Princes..

I should clarify, I thought it might be a laugh to try this with someone on here. I'll post one of the books out (they're in a tatty enough condition for me to not stress if they get lost) and we can give it a crack..? I'm not sure how in depth the two player nature of it is, tbh: I don't think they're interactive like Duelmaster.

Anyway, I have completed Nightmare Castle and I have to say this is one of my very favourite FF books played. Not only is it a creepy, gory, cool story but it's not excessively difficult  (I died a lot, but the path through is there is you pay attention, for the most part) and it's very inventive with a lot of ideas we haven't seen before (the mirror is brilliant).
I'll write up the rest of my playthrough when I get a chance. I found my Redeemer playthrough and I might stick that up here too.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 20 February, 2023, 11:24:02 PM
I don't think I'm up for playing Clash myself, but I would be interested to read a review or a playthrough about it (ideally by each player!).

Looking forward to your write up of Beneath Nightmare Castle.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 February, 2023, 04:54:31 PM
Quote from: Richard on 20 February, 2023, 11:24:02 PMLooking forward to your write up of Beneath Nightmare Castle.

Thanks dude, glad someone is!

With that in mind I'm going back Beneath Nightmare Castle!


After my last go I think by now I have mapped out the optimum route to the castle itself: get out the dungeon, don't go out in the street, get the head of the trident and so on. I follow that same path, go through the gardens avoiding drinking the fertilizer, meet the gardener and use his secret entrance to get into the cellars beneath the castle.
This time I ignore the blocked off door and continue down the passage into exactly what the dwarf gardener said it would lead to - the castle cellar, and a wine cellar at that. I decide it's time for a drink and have a glass of delicious ruby wine, which restores some of my stamina but reduces my skill, due to being drunk. Appropriately I'm standing in the cellar enjoying the warm feeling of being slightly off my face when a bunch of red-robed swordsmen burst in. Their superior numbers are emphasised and I'm given the choice of surrendering: considering my skill penalty, I do and am roughly hauled off to face the Baron himself.
My old friend Baron Tholdur is seated upon a grandiose throne, looking drugged or otherwise out of it - pains are taken to describe the formerly austere hall as now being decadently decorated with cushions and thick carpets, crowded with sinister southern soldiers and merchants being attended by slave girls, whilst beside the Baron himself a mysterious figure in a heavy cloak and hood whispers advice into his ear. It is clear the Baron has fallen under the influence of a sorcerer from Zagoula, just as Old Huw feared!
I am denounced as a foreign spy but with the wine in my system I immediately begin shouting at Tholdur, imploring him to remember who I am and our time together as comrades in arms. It seems my words have some effect: Tholdur wavers, whilst his advisor whispers urgently in his ear, but when I reveal the ring the Baron gave me as proof of our friendship it seems his old vitality returns and he clasps my hand in friendship. The guards slink back, unsure of themselves, but I can see the vizier is unhappy and I am badly outnumbered here, so I take the opportunity to nip out of the throne room and into the castle itself.
At this point the viziers guards are onto me. Ducking into a room I encounter a weedy, weeping gnome who complains that he has to deliver some stew from an orc cook to an orc guard, both of whom beat him. I've never heard of orcs working for the Baron before, but this seems a good cover so I volunteer to take the stew up to the guard and promptly do him in whilst he is eating it and let myself into the treasury. Unsurprisingly the place has been ransacked: all valuables and treasure gone save a potion, which I have a swig of only to discover it is an appetite supressant (for a Baron on a diet) and stops me eating any provisions - a definite issue as I'm still feeling the mild effects of the wine. A secret door hangs open within the treasury and I descend the steps into the darkness.. arriving back in the room with the emaciated prisoners from my previous playthrough.
This time I free the young man instead of the young woman - he begs me to release his sister, but his mouth seems oddly full and I catch a glimpse of more than one tongue so I get out the room quick and shut the door behind me.
I'm now back in the corridor offering an illusion or the soldiers that ended my last attempt. Instead of attacking I bluff my way through, claiming I have orders from the Baron, and am met by a Southern serving girl called Senya who escorts me into a luxurious antechamber. Apparently the Barons Vizier is willing to meet with me! My head swirling with wine, perfume and young ladies in silks, I am unable to resist as she pushes me into a comfortable chair and tells me to rest. Hypnotised by a flickering ruby at her throat I let myself sink into the chair - literally, as it moulds itself around me, for it is no chair but some hideous creation of Xakhaz, and Senya is really Senyakhaz, the sorceress and illusionist from Zagoula. The chair slowly absorbs me, draining my fluids whilst I stare unaware. DEATH #4

The book has been repeatedly asking me at this point if I have the talisman from Huws mate or the trident, so I seem to have missed something. I decide to restart at the garden but this time I head the opposite way and venture into one of the other towers. This contains a giant compost heap with a hidden room underneath it, where I find a strange glass orb. I am also attacked by hundreds of fat hairy spiders. With the spiders dealt with I discover the globe has begun to heat up and glow until it promptly blows up obliterating the tower, the garden and me with it. DEATH #5. Seeing as I'd just restarted I pick another option and stick the orb in my backpack, gambling that it is light that set it off - thankfully this works and it goes dormant again instead of blasting me to bits. This is a new development, so I continue round the garden until I wind up back at the gardeners tower.
I have the orb but still no trident, nor the talisman, and I'm confident I've missed nothing so I follow the same route to the Baron - this time drinking some 'wine' that is a hundred times worse (it was embalming fluid. The barrel was full of severed heads) but doesn't leave me drunk, but this time I stay sullen and silent instead of talking to the Baron. This time I'm hauled off to the dungeon on the spell-addled Barons judgement but the stupid guards make no attempt to take my sword or backpack!
Prompted to look at the head of the trident, I notice it is glowing and using its help I am able to raise some flagstones and discover a secret tunnel beneath the cell. I ease myself down a horizontal shaft into a tunnel that terminates at three doors. The trident's glow indicates I should go through one, and using it's head as a key, I enter and after a slight misadventure that involves me turning the lights out and nearly falling to my death I arrive at the base of an ancient staircase and a sarcophagus containing the second part of the trident of Skarlos! The trident is awesome - it's +2 SKILL, double damage against humans and quadruple damage against non-human enemies as well as restoring my flagging luck and willpower. Feeling suitably empowered I return to my cell (after a slightly confusing sequence where I fight another monster to get some keys that open the door I've just been in- I thought I'd messed this up at first, but going back over it, having the trident head negated the need for the keys. Anyway)
Back in the cell I wait confidently for my captors to arrive, only to be surprised by none other than Cernic, Huw's missing priest. He is in a terrible state, near frenzied from fear, and cannot wait to pass the talisman on Lolth onto me - he has been hiding in the dungeons for the castle is full of soldiers and there are worse in the depths (don't I know it). He does confirm that the Baron is under the spell of a Zagoulan wizard (Senyakhaz) and that Xakhaz is now alive and slowly building his power beneath the keep - and oddly that I should never look in a mirror whilst wearing the talisman. He is desperate to be away and I let him go, following him down the passage... and I'm back to the corridor that leads to Senyakhaz's quarters again.
This time I have both Talisman and Trident. Boldly I walk in, confront Senya, fail a luck test and hand over the trident. I'm absorbed again! DEATH #6. Aaargh!

Having come so close I reroll that luck test. The trident crackling I spring to my feet, facing no serving wench but the dark-eyed sorceress herself. She sneers at me and escapes in a cloud of smoke but I rush after her and witness her vanishing through - and into - a mirror, magically transporting herself away. I leap after her and die horribly as the mirror cracks and breaks, transporting half of me across space and time and leaving the other half a bloody mess on her floor. DEATH #7. FFS!
Restart. This time I take the another route following the smoke escape and this time encounter Senyakhaz preparing her escape via a magic box. She attempts to distract me with the sudden appearance of a giant spider, but I gamble this is a further illusion and it pays off. Fearful, Senyakhaz draws a knife from her sleeve. I triumphantly whip out the talisman and she cowers back, begging for mercy before twisting aside and leaving me staring straight at the mirror. The reflection of the talisman melts my eyes and burns my head black. FFS again! DEATH #8

I'm close now and don't fancy starting again so this time I DONT get out the talisman and press my attack. Senyakhaz is a skilled knife fighter but no match for the trident, and before long the sorceress lies slain at my feet. Her hold over Tholdur and his people now broken, but one threat remains... Xakhaz himself. Taking up the strange box from her hand I switch the setting to 'Z' and, as expected, it activates the mirror. I step through... and find myself in Zargoula.
Now at this point I'm given the option of wandering off into Zargoula, but this seems to be a trap: Xakhaz is in Neuburg, not here, so I step back through the mirror (this, it turns out, is the right choice) only to come face to face with a shocked Senyakhaz - I have come back in time to a few moments before! This time, once she is defeated, I switch the setting to 'X' (it's obvious now) and step through the mirror once more into an underground chamber.
The room is dark at first, before a door opens and a figure enters the room - glowing softly and clad in thick platemail and surcoat, it identifies itself as Skarlos in a flat voice and demands I leave or die. I have the trident, and I am suspicious of this Skarlos, so I avoid combat, taunting and dodging the figure whilst it repeats itself for a few moments before stopping still. Its voice is replaced by a shrill, eerie tone from beyond the door, inviting me to face Xakhaz himself. An inspection reveals there is something truly horrible in the armour, but nothing like what waits me beyond the doorway.
Xakhaz chamber is piled high with corpses in various states of dismemberment, limbs scattered and stinking across blood-slick floors. I stand appalled in the midst of the carnage as the voice taunts me, mocks me and promises me death. To my horror and disgust what I thought was a mound of bodies shifts and reveals itself to be Xakhaz himself, a fused, horrible pile of limbs and torsos, heads and mouths and tentacles all slithering and slapping across the floor towards me as I stumble away, tripping over severed limbs that grasp blindly for me. I reveal the Talisman, which boosts my resolve but its light does not stop Xakhaz's advance. At this point I remember the orb - pulling it from my back I hurl it like a grenade in an attempt to wedge it into the mound of flesh that is Xakhaz. I totally miss, but the globe goes off anyway, blasting me across the room and obliterating fiully half of Xakhaz's bulk. He continues to come at me, a stinking and bloody ruin, but his previously horrific stats are much reduced and although I cannot risk taking even a single hit from him I finish him off withe the trident and end his menace forever.
From there its back through the mirror, shell-shocked but triumphant, where I find the Baron evicting the demoralised southerners, no longer under the spell of their wizard. Huw arrives and claims the box, saying it contains the remnants of Xakhaz's spirit and the priesthood (ie him) will keep it safe. I don't care - there is general rejoicing, and I have defeated the horror Beneath Nightmare Castle!

This was awesome.
And after all that, I never met the woman on the cover!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 22 February, 2023, 07:02:34 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 February, 2023, 04:54:31 PMThe chair slowly absorbs me, draining my fluids whilst I stare unaware.
This pretty much describes my weekends of late, only in my case it's a couch rather than a chair, and there aren't so many fluids involved – mercifully.

God bless your energy, Boots. If I were a younger man I'm sure I'd be running around nightmare castles and deathtrap dungeons right alongside you.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 22 February, 2023, 10:46:44 PM
What a fun write-up! I love all the gruesome ways to die. I believe this book has the most auto-death paragraphs in the whole FF series, around fifty, and they're all nasty.

The woman on the cover is the Baron's daughter. She's imprisoned in a suit of magic armour that forces her to fight people whether she wants to or not, and if you meet her you have to kill her. The final sentence of that encounter basically says if you make it to paragraph 400 you've still fucked up because you've ruined the Baron's life.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 February, 2023, 12:04:25 AM
Cheers! The funny thing is that, although this book did have a ton of auto-deaths, it never felt unfair or stupid. Each death was deeply horrible, but also well written and generally felt apt: a lot of them are as a result of daft decisions, or logical stuff so they just seem.. cooler I guess.

That is brutal about the Barons daughter! Glad I didn't run into her!

Quote from: JWare on 22 February, 2023, 07:02:34 PMGod bless your energy, Boots. If I were a younger man I'm sure I'd be running around nightmare castles and deathtrap dungeons right alongside you.

It's a combination of a job that occasionally allows me too much time on my hands, an overactive imagination, a big rush of nostalgia and (initially, anyway) a bit of escapism from a horrible year.
I'm enjoying them so much now I'm not sure I can stop, especially when people encourage me here.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 09 March, 2023, 11:36:41 AM
Way of the Tiger: Redeemer (part 1)

I've not had any time to play another FF book (next up is Crypt of the Sorcerer, which is the last one in the old series I can remember ever playing before, and also one I remember being insanely difficult) but I did find my notes from the playthrough of the final Way of the Tiger book, Redeemer, so I thought I'd write them up.

Inferno, which was not a good book by any stretch, ended on a cliffhanger with me (Avenger) stuck in a giant spiderweb and being threatened by a giant spider avatar of evil (The Black Widow) with the fearsome Rift along with my useless companions Eris, Vespers , Taflwr and Thybault and the recurring bad guys Cassandra, Tyutchev and Thaum plus of course the duplicitous Foxglove who I'd dragged along with me. We'd come in to rescue my old chums Glaivas, the most anti-Mungo of all companions to date, and Dore, who I consider a lunatic, but things had very much taken a turn for the worse.

That's where Redeemer starts. I and the others hang helpless in the web, unable to escape. As the spider approaches Foxglove calls out to it, saying she has brought the magic sceptre and me into her trap. FFS Foxglove! The Black Widow frees Foxglove and makes a show of saying how she betrayed me, but as she does so she slips an onyx spider into my hand and whispers 'help me..'. She then begs the Black Widow for her freedom but instead a horrible spider monster appears hauls her away. Dramatic start!
As the spider looms over us, Vespers the warrior frees himself and lunges at her with his mightiest strike. It is a doomed attempt, as she immediately kills him, but buys me a moment to speak the command words and cause the torch of lumen to flare up in her face, blinding her momentarily. She slashes out, tearing my leg and totally destroying my kick and acrobatics skills and screaming my name. But gods of fate be praised, as this activates none other than Everyman, the unkillable golem who pursued me in book 3 and I sent tumbling into the Rift. Everyman activates and attacks the Black Widow and whilst they're fighting I can use Foxgloves token to burn free of the webbing, snag the sceptre, and everyone legs it!
Everyone splits up. Eris goes one way, Cassandra another, Thaum and Tyutchev a third, and I cannot follow Taflwr and Thybault as the battle is in the way but I can go with each of the other three. I'd rather not end up with any of the villains so I join Eris.

We flee deeper into the Rift, using Eris's magic to light the way, dodging fights (Eris, as usual, is crap) until we're ambushed by Tyutchev and Thaum. They try to convince Eris to join them but a timely reminder of Vespers sacrifice sways the mage back to the side of good and the battle is on. I duel Thyutchev, counter his invisibility with my emerald eye and drive him back before Eris flees and I limp off in another direction. I continue to navigate the maze of the Rift alone, avoiding various hazards with my ninja skills until I come to the Forbidden Sanctuary, a huge glistening stalagmite mound jutting from the floor like a rotten tooth - the place where I was told (I cannot remember by whom) I might fight the missing Glaivas (remember him?). The Black Widow approaches however, creeping across the ceiling and doubtless in search of me, so I quickly scale the stalagmite and gain entry through a primitive window. As I do so the spider nestling within my head wriggles in anticipation (aaaaargh!)
Inside the corridor, such as it is, is waist deep in the unholy cursed waters of Nullaq. I follow a smear of blood to discover none other than Tyutchev and Thaum - again - who have murdered a priest of Nullaq and are busy looting the foul treasures of this place. They don't see me, so I purposefully set off the alarm and slip off whilst a horde of bad guys charge into them and, it is implied, send them to a well-deserved fate. FINALLY rid of that pair.
The inside of this place is horrific. Sickle-bearing guards are everywhere, their faces hidden behind grotesque masks, and in one room I find a vast wheezing creature that's a cross between a spider and an octopus, tended to by emaciated dark elves scratching at their own bleeding eyes. Not for the first time poison needles are a godsend here for killing rubbish guards and I reach the sanctum of the Forbidden Sanctuary, an evil temple awash with knee-deep corrupted water and adorned with decorations of spiders. Here I am confronted by The Keeper of the Sanctuary, an equally sinister priestess and successor to Shadazar (who I killed back in Warbringer). The keeper does not oppose me but rather gives me some exposition about fate and being instruments of the gods, which ties in neatly with all the previous books, and offers to lead me to Glaivas. En route she mentions that only once has ant surface dweller penetrated so deeply into the Rift - a bunch of heroes who took the sacred Talisman of Death and who still suffer here to this day. This blatant reference to Talisman of Death warms the heart of this geeky reader.
It all seems to be going well, which of course means things are about to go sour. The Keeper brings me to Glaivas, who is kept in a totally twisted cell and hugely the worse for wear, and then basically says good luck carrying this dude all the way to the surface. Overwhelmed with concern for my old friend I rush in to help him stand and of course the Keeper closes the cell behind me, trapping me for all eternity. Game over.

Part 2 to follow.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 March, 2023, 11:21:06 AM
Some rescue! Poor old Glaivas!

That book actually sounds more fun than I was expecting it to be. Looking forward to the rest of it.

Crypt of the Sorceror is so stupidly difficult that it is totally unfair, especially the fight with the sorcerer himself.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 March, 2023, 01:44:01 PM
Yeah, part of the reason I've not started Crypt is that I remember it not being fun at all...
Redeemer on the other hand is great. I really recommend it, although you do have to endure the rubbish that is Inferno.

Here's Redeemer part 2!


Eris having been a classic Mungo, I restart and this time decide to follow Cassandra, who promptly kills me and gouges my emerald eye out. Not having that, so I reroll my missed attack, throw her across the cavern, and we eventually decide on a truce - at least until we reach an upper level. We head on together, not really trusting another, until we encounter a hooded figure in velvet ribes who turns out to be none other than.... Foxglove.
"I've been waiting for you" Foxglove says, stepping aside to reveal the twisted corpse of the creature that dragged her from the Black Widows chamber. She too suggest we join forces to escape - but first she wants to deal with Cassandra, as she has a score to settle there (as well as her general homicidalness, it was Cassandra who delivered Foxglove to me in Inferno and suggested I kill ger off). Cassandra warns me that somethings not right - Foxglove was always pretty weedy and lacked the skill to fight her own way free of the creatures of Nullaq, and says that she is my only hope to find Glaivas.
Finally there's a chance to utilise my little-used skill of Shin-Ren here which tells me something is off about Foxglove - her mannerisms and movements are strangely hollow. I've grown quite fond of Foxglove over the books but the is something wroing here so I move to stand with Cassandra. As I do Foxglove speaks aloud in a language I do not know, and to my horror what I thought was bioluminescent moss is revealed to be thousand of tiny spiders that surge towards us. As we scramble for higher ground Cassandra punches Foxglove and it is revealed that she has some kind of awful swollen spider attached to the back of her head, and as it flexes and takes full control of her her eyes go blank and her skin takes on a corpselike pallor. I splatter the spider with my sceptre and poor Foxglove collapses like an abandoned puppet into the carpet of spiders as Cassandra and I pull ourselves to safety into a cavern above.

After more wandering we come upon a pungent lake of sulphuric acid and we need each others help to proceed. Once again I am given the option to use Shin-Ren, this time to read Cassandra: she wishes me harm (of course) but is also telling me the truth about knowing how to reach Glaivas. I elect to stick with her, although she makes sure I am to go first into any hazards. In one cavern we find the remains of long dead warrior, their holy sword and symbol all that remains of them. This is, of course, another reference to Talisman of Death - it's the shieldmaiden, I think, who was killed defending the others.
We battle some kind of albino fiend, which very nearly kills me with my reduced kick attacks, and after reunite with Thybault the priest, who has become separated from Taflwr. At this point Cassandra attacks and departs - there is enmity between her and the holy man and the odds are no longer in her favour for killing me - and Thybault and I head off after her after he heals my injuries somewhat. We come across Cassandra crossing a classic jungle canyon rope bridge over a vast chasm. There is a confrontation, ending in me using a shuriken to cut the rope and drop her to her death.
With Cassandra dealt with we head to the Forbidden Sanctuary where Thybault wanders off again to look for Eris (these guys are idiots) and I proceed much as I did in gaining entry to the stalagmite and encountering the keeper, only this time I tell her to get Glaivas out of the cell instead of heading in myself. As she does so, to my absolute horror, another one of those brain spiders wriggles out of Glaivas's ear and jumps at me. I've got arrow cutting so I deflect the strike and crush it, but if I didn't this spider would have burrowed into my skull, joined the other one living in my cranial cavity and the two would EAT MY FUCKING BRAIN OH MY GOD.
Sneering, the Keeper reveals an image of the Black Widow wrapping her webbing around the outside of the stalagmite, trapping us in. Meanwhile Glaivas is starting to come round from his spider-possession. He's in a bad way, but handing him the paladins sword peps him up somewhat. He goes after the Keeper who transforms into a spider and sets off her final trap. One of the other cells open and another masked warrior steps out. He introduces himself as Amin the Fidai, a fanatical sect of assassins. He was brought here when Glaivas was captured and placed in the next cell where he has been meditating and preparing himself for the honour of killing me - for he specialises in defeating the monks of Kwon in battle.
What follows is another one of those cinematic battles that WotT is famous for... It's not quite as epic as previous books, but eventually I defeat Amin (Kwons Flail helps, as he is useless against it). With Amin lifeless and Glaivas having stomped the spider-keeper the rest of the cells open revealing the prisoners within, held in a sort of stasis. I free one fellow but he immediately dies as spiders spill from his head - the awful things were slowly eating his brain from the inside. The second prisoner is the wizard from Talisman of Death, recognisable in his golden robes the golden smiling mask. He is grateful but also dying - he reveals he was poisoned before being frozen, to allow his agonizing death to take years rather than minutes, as punishment for stealing the talisman. He speaks of a chamber dedicated to Fate, who sent he and his friends her all that time ago, and essentially makes the same offer to us as he did in ToD - to teleport us away from here, but to do so he will need to draw the power of the torch of Lumen. To be honest it's a no-brainer so I hand over the torch and with his dying efforts he zaps Glaivas and I out of there.

We're still in the Rift however, and the pursuit is on. Without the torch our only light is Glaivas's sword. More harrowing escapades follow until we wind up rescuing Taflwr and the long-missing Dore, who has lost a hand in battle. It seems Taflwr was rescued by Dore, who presumably has been charging around the Rift all this time, and then used his magic to find Glaivas hence our running into them. At this point we seem primed to escape, but Taflwr obviously wants to find Eris and Thybault. I don't want to leave anyone behind, so the three of us head off but this the wrong decision as although we reunite with the others we are overwhelmed and killed by the Black Widow shortly afterwards. Game over again.

Final part to come!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 March, 2023, 12:18:59 PM
Here's the rest of my Redeemer writeup.

I think at the time I said what I liked about this book. Typing this lot up, it reinforces how much fun it was. The bit in the Rift is easily the best bit. It does seem, from these notes, like I'm constantly turning a corner and meeting some NPC or another, but that's because I've cut out all the boring bits.
Anyway.

Part 3

So... when I died last time, after setting off for the last of the 4 stooges, I was specifically asked if I'd eliminated Cassandra and having done so led to my death. So this time I restart, follow Cassandra until I meet Thybault but this time do not go after her but instead head into the big prison stalagmite, rescue Glaivas, kill Amin, port out, reunite with Dore and Taflwr etc. I'm convinced Avenger wouldn't leave Eris and Thybault to die, so I still take that route as going after them, and this time we go back down to the seventh level (ffs) to find them and aid them in battle against the dark elves. After Kwons Flail-ing a load of idiots we rescue the besieged pair and fight through spiders, elves and other horrors back up the sixth tier. Good guys reunited! No mention of Cassandra so far (I thought she'd intervene here) so I guess her being dead at this point just closed off going further to avoid timewasting, which is fair enough.

Reaching the sixth level gate, there's a difference of opinion. Dore, as usual, thinks we should just charge in, stating he didn't get down to level six by sneaking about (you did lose a hand though, you dope). Taflwr suggests donning the dark elves gear and passing through in disguise, whilst Glaivas just says I go in alone, ninja-kill the sentries and open the gate. Glaivas has always been helpful and sensible and the other two are clowns, so we go with his plan. The gatehouse is garrisoned by some kind of ant-human hybrids but I'm amongst them like a shadow, killing the lot and getting us through.
More battles await, including a giant tongue and some elves riding huge spiders, and then the Black Widow herself is sighted in pursuit. As we flee headlong we're ambushed by Cassandra, who steps out to block our path. She's badly wounded, but armed with a crossbow whose bolts are tipped with the deadly blood of Nil. With spl;it seconds to act I use my poison needles - as the dart lodges in her face she fires the bow, but with arrow-cutting I knock the deadly missile aside and she collapses into the rocks. There is no time to see if she is finally finished - we need to move and fast. Webbed into a chamber and with Dore covering our retreat, we again encounter Foxglove who again offers to aid us. She claims that with the death of the Keeper she is aiming to assume that position - and perhaps challenge the Widow herself - but she needs the sceptre, both to secure her position and to be free of the Black Widows geas, a curse not even death could free her from.

There's a big choice her and I feel a bit sorry for Foxglove, but I can't give up the sceptre - it's what all the bad guys want to become uber powerful so it seems to be the key object here. I dither and as a sweetener she gives me a silver gauntlet which Dore can wear over his stump to give him a new hand.
Because Eris is with me I have an option to ask for his help, so in a bit of a dick move I ask him to cast an illusion over the torch of lumen so it looks like the sceptre. Foxglove, none the wiser, scoops it up and opens up the way forward for us. "We've both cheated the gods this day" she says, and I admit to feeling a bit guilty for cheating her as we scuttle off.

Things now get a bit weird. We gain the cavern in the Rift thats 'protected by fate' and are enveloped in a sort of warm light which leaves me alone and facing Fortuna, Fates guardian of the Rift. She confirms that I am beyond the reach of the Black Widow, as are my friends, but that we must chase our own fate to leave the Rift. Thus begins a strange dream quest - my ninja skills leave me here, with only my fate modifier remaining. I find myself in a wraithlike landscape of bamboo groves before an edifice of drak crystal. My hands are corpselike and cold as I push through the bamboo, following the sound of a voice chanting the Cachetism of Kwon the Redeemer. I discover a monk, pale and bleeding from a wound, but as I approach him his chant changes in pitch and tone to become one of damnation and evil and I hurry away, crossing blood-soaked rice fields where dozens of damned monks battle each other in endless warfare and following a vision of a  tiger - the symbol of Kwon and surely a good omen - to a dark pagoda where awaits me Aiguchi, the weapon master I encountered back in Usurper. He states he has been called back from the fires of hell to destroy me and avenge his death. Battle is joined: a single hit and Aiguchi dissolves into smoke, the mist coalescing instead into Jikkyu, the Samurai I slew in Assassin, whilst the surroundings transform to that of a battlefield. Once more I fight, and once more upon victory the smoke changes, inevitably, into the form of Yaemon.
Once more we face each other across the windswept ramparts. Yaemon is soaked head to foot in gore: for his failure he has been condemned to a lake of boiling blood for eternal torment, and he seeks to drag me down there with him. We fight and Yaemon absolutely batters me: i need to land three hits on him and with just 5 health left I get the final one: he screams as he is dragged back to his torture in the inferno. The scene shifts again to a simple room, the only evidence of our battle Yaemon's bloodstained footprints upon the floor. Finally I must fight a shadowy image of myself. Here I focus on my training from previous books, leaning into the Way of the Tiger, and the spirit fades away and I return to the real world.

Back in the world, I materialise in a circular chamber, without exit and lit by a glowing orb. Dore and Glaivas appear beside me - they too have conquered their fates, although the others are seemingly lost. Randomly we then have to fight a giant brain, that turns into a giant maggot: the final avatar of Vile sent to block our escape. This is another fairly involved fight, and a pretty squishy one including a bit where I use arrow cutting to catch a smaller giant maggot that's been launched at my face, but the three of us slay the thing. There follows a brief glimpse of heaven, before the chamber fades and I find myself finally upon the surface.

Squinting against the sunlight I realise I am near Irsmuncast, at the battlefield where I routed the Legion of the Sword of Doom. No sign of Dore and Glaivas! My only choice is to head back to the city, several days travel on foot, subsiding on apples and water from streams. Upon arriving I choose to don the garb of a commoner, entering the city humble and barefoot as I did the first time I came here. Feeling grateful to Kwon I head to his temple first rather than stroll up to my palace, where the monks seem agitated to see me. Hengist, the new grandmaster, is not here: he went on a visit to the temple of time but has not returned, and the monks speak of the Overlord (me) who has already returned and warned of 'an imposter' that may come into the city. I show him the sceptre, and walk around the room calling the monks by name, for many of them were trained by me. With my identity confirmed I am able to rest until another old friend arrives: Greystaff from the Temple of Avatar. The priest heals me before performing holy rites to rid me of the taint of Nullaq that I've carried for several books (restoring my inner force and boosting my endurance to beyond its old maximum) and then finally pouring the holy water of Avatar into my ear to drive out the brain spider I still carry. I'm back baby!



I reconvene with Greystaff and my other old chum Demagogue, who has also arrived, to discuss recent happenings in the city. It seems not long after I left "I" returned and sequestered myself in the palace 'in mourning' for my lost friends. Shortly after I mobilised my army - both Shieldmaidens and the regular troops of Nemesis - and sent them off to attack The Rift leaving the city almost undefended. Gwyneth has not been seen since 'my' return, and both Greystaff and Demagogue have been denied entrance to the palace. Antocidas and his mercenaries are lying low assessing the situation, in the Temple of Nemeisis Lackland has ignored entreaties, and Hengist visited the Temple of Time to discuss an alliance against these strange happenings and has not returned. Greystaff and Demagogue will rally to my command but against the remaining combined forces of Dama, Nemesis and Time, we would surely lose in a bloodbath.
It looks like it's up to me to rally everyone once more. I head first to the Temple of Dama in disguise but find the doors barred to me and Gwyneth not in attendance. Next I go to see Antocidas, who greets me with his typical surly manner. He seems distrustful, claiming it is I who may be the imposter. I remind him of the battle we won together against Honoric, and eventually he asks how I escaped the Rift. I tell him the truth, preposterous as it sounds ("Oh, I was teleported out by the goddess of Fate") and he says this must surely be a lie... had he not already heard the same story from a trusted source... Glaivas! The ranger enters, having reached the city ahead of me. We reunite warmly; Antocidas takes the knee and pledges his men and his sword to my cause. Now it's off to the Temple of Time to meet Solstice. I still really hate this guy. He tells me Hengist was wounded by an assassin and is recuperating slowly in this temple because 'time is the greatest healer'. True to form he offers no help at all and I leave in failure.
Back at Kwons Temple, I learn Dore too has returned and of course has been captured and is lined up for execution this very eve. Greystaff and Demagogue introduce me to Csaky, who is also a ninja of Kwon and coincidentally my cousin. I'm not 100% sold on Csaky - she just turns up at this point and seems a bit too awesome and convenient (I wouldn't be surprised if she is there to be the character in a future series that never happened) but she is legit and she also knows a way into the palace. With Antocidas and Glaivas providing a distraction we slip over the wall, through some secret doors and into the servants quarters and finally the dungeons where Dore is held (Csaky has done all the work here btw, I just follow her about)
Dore is in some half-flooded dungeons and as I'm busting her out, in an unexpected twist the gauntlet / magic hand Foxglove gave him suddenly comes to life and attacks him, eventually being severed and dropped into the water where it forms a whirlpool where some horrible thing bursts out of it, like a skinless cyclopean tentacle monster. I put it down and am cursing Foxglove for this final trap, yet Csaky and Dore seem to think this was a ploy of the priests of Nemesis. Dore is also basically dead, so I charge Csaky to get him out and proceed alone, as it should be, to confront the usurper.

At the throne room door Gwyneth stands guard. She knows me not, and draws her sword against me: I tell her exactly what I said when I first came to the city (that I intend to rule according to the laws of my father) and realising who I am, she steps down - but will not aid me against what is within. Finally, I enter the darkened throne room where a brooding figure awaits me. He is the exact image of myself, but as I approach he shifts and the illusion fades revealing a scowling one-eyed figure. He tells me his story - he is a ninja of the way of the scorpion, a man who was present when I slew the Grandmaster and who was chosen to carry forth the orders revenge - as they said they would, all the way back in Usurper. He reveals that, upon the death of Mandrake his belt of disguise was stolen by the treacherous Lackland and gifted to him (hence the disguise) along with his fearsome blade that kills with a single blow. Flipping Lackland! I always knew he was the bad apple!

Obviously we must fight. I dazzle my foe with flash powder and whilst he is distracted launch into the teeth of the tiger throw, following up with kwons flail and expend my inner force as I do so for an enormous, near fatal blow. A single kick fells him and the imposter falls dead my feet. The crown of Irsmuncast rolls from his head to land fittingly at my feet.
All is resolved - or is it? With a crash the gaunt figure of Lackland bursts into the room, his priests and a force of half orcs at his back. With shock he takes in the fallen body of the imposter, the crown upon my brow, the shattered halves of Mandrakes sword. The game is up. With a cry he urges his men forward, plunging the throne room into a deadly melee as Gwyneth and her swordmaidens surge to my defense. For a priest Lackland is a fearsome enemy who puts out some appalling damage and although I am victorious I am left on 2 health.

Lackland lies dead, his priests under arrest, and Antocidas has rallied the army to my cause: order is restored. As Gwyneth, Dore, Csaky and Glaivas join me I look out over the city and resolve to watch over its people as Kwon has watched over me. My journey, at last, is over.

WotT rules!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 March, 2023, 08:26:14 PM
What an epic story! The bit when you get back to Irsmuncast seems like the most interesting part to me, but I always liked being the Overlord better than the adventuring bits. Shame that Foxglove turned out to be the enemy after all, but she did worship the god of Evil so I suppose it is on brand.

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 March, 2023, 09:36:53 AM
Yeah. I flicked through and I don't think it's possible to 'save' Foxglove. The best ending she can get is getting the sceptre and taking over the Rift, which is definitely on brand (but also causes you to lose the book). Getting that spider thing off her head at least gives her her own agency back.

Big fan of Foxglove, but also I think there's a lot of redeemed bad guy narrative stuff about, especially if the villain is a bit hot, where within every bad girls heart is a bit of good etc. I quite like Foxglove (and Cassandra) sticking to the darkside.

The stuff at Irsmuncast is great for bringing everything together from previous books. I didn't like Csaky, but really enjoyed having all the advisors back, Lackland showing his true colours etc. And I didn't miss the irony of the imposter being out to kill me because I murdered his grand master in Usurper... a bit of a mirror of my own mission to avenge the grandmaster who was murderd by Yaemon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 14 March, 2023, 12:02:04 PM
I think in an old post you said it was possible to kill Solstice in this book, but you don't seem to have done that on this playthrough.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 March, 2023, 01:29:49 PM
Yeah, I went back and did that afterwards. This playthrough was my 'trying hard to win' one.
It doesn't help in any way to kill him, although it is satisfying.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 March, 2023, 02:37:05 PM
I've been playing Crypt of the Sorcerer on and off, and I was going to do a writeup, but it's been so frustrating - I must have tried it dozens of times - I've decided against it.

Repeat difficult combatants, a huge number of roll-to-not-instadie parts, multiple skill penalties, a shopping list of items / clues as long as your arm: it's ridiculous. I resorted to using a walkthrough and still lost because the battles are insane. The end fight is bonkers, but the clay golem fight should have a special place in hell.
It's a shame because some of this book is very cool. It's steeped in continuity and has some fresh encounters and set-pieces (the balloon ride is great for example) and the art is fantastic throughout: some of the images are really dynamic and Razaak himself looks utterly gross.
It's all new books to me from now on and I'll be moving onto Star Strider next.

I've also done the third Lone Wolf book. They're good books - consistent with their lore and always reward careful decision making - but feel very short and dare I say a bit easy if you carry your character and gear over: I feel distinctly overpowered at this point and I'll probably give up after book 4.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 March, 2023, 10:50:47 PM
I read the first two LW books and then stopped because I read a poor review about the third one, so I'd be interested in your review of it if you were thinking of writing one.

I have also read the tenth in the series, which recognises the issue about being too powerful, and so it sometimes asks you if you have the Somersword and if you have then it amps up your opponent's stats.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 March, 2023, 09:54:08 AM
Interesting. I think it's the weakest of the three I've played, but not by a significant amount. The shift to the polar setting is a nice one: there's some interesting encounters and as ever the lore is very consistent and so feels deep. Gary Chalk art so obviously that's great as well. The mission itself feels less epic that the first two books and a bit more sidequest, as you're basically tying up a loose end from book 2. If the first two could have been an film with a continuous narrative, this one felt more like a tv episode where Lone Wolf goes into the Frozen North, if that analogy makes sense.

I think what made it the weakest book is partly the difficulty level - at this point I've got the Somersword and loads of Kai disciplines so I walked through most of the combats and got a lot of help with the other choices: having Sixth Sensedoesn't break the book but it gives you a huge benefit, and I had to stop using the Healing power as it did break the book. When you've got those two, plus Hunting, you can breeze through most of the encounters.
It also felt very short - partly because I went through it at first attempt due to the above difficulty. To balance that there's a couple of insta-death by random roll segments, but that's a feature of all Joe Dever's books. Combine all of that (bit easy, short, sidequest feel) and it made it feel a bit underwhelming.

Structurally it is a bit tighter than the other two books in its path, and it felt a bit more FF-ish in that it required you to have a couple of items to finish. I wouldn't say it's bad but it's far from essential.

I have the hardback editions of the first three (second and third one were a monthly treat to myself) but an old 80s paperback copy of book 4 - if you do play book 3 I'll happily send you my book 4 so you can wrap up the first arc.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 March, 2023, 05:40:24 PM
Thank you! I think you may have put me off it though...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 March, 2023, 07:40:16 PM
Whoops! Sorry!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 29 March, 2023, 02:51:13 PM
Star Strider

This was a totally new book to me. It was... not great. No playthrough writeup because (a) I'm pressed for time and (b) if there's one thing this book likes it's an arbitrary death. Several times I was asked to roll a dice or two, and certain results just killed me outright. The book also likes a surprise death eg left door or right door? One of them just kills you instantly, no clues or anything. I stopped counting these deaths after a while, because that's just terrible design, and flipped back whenever I encountered one.

The book charges you with finding the kidnapped president and takes you across 'an unimportant planet called Earth' - Madrid, Rome, Paris and London. This sounds like it could be cool, but there's no discernable difference between Rome and Paris and you're barely there anyway, and the London bit is basically just wandering the London Underground tunnels in a load of turn left or turn right choices (in fairness, there is a map). In Madrid you do fight a robot bull for an unexplained reason.
Combats are not tricky if you've at least got a Skill of 9. There's a number of math puzzles, but nothing too tricky for an adult. One thing that is interesting is that you only have 48 'time units' to finish the book and it periodically tells you to deduct time. This only really starts to pressure you at the end when you're wandering in the maze of tunnels.

The cover has nothing to do with the book, although it might be an encounter I missed (as per Demons of the Deep). The internal art is smart, if a bit unremarkable. The writing is alright - it's better than Space Assassin - but its still quite terse and doesn't bother telling you anything the author isn't interested in writing about - this is an excerpt from an actual paragraph from the book (for context I've just run into a gang of rogue androids and have been told I need to run away and can run left or right (I went left))

"You run fast, keeping close to the buildings and occasionally waving to avoid stun shots. Suddenly an arm grabs you, and you are halted in your tracks by another group. When they rob you, they come across your ID. This stops them and they take you back to the others. When you find out they detest the Groms, their creators, you explain your mission."

That's lazy writing in the extreme. No real attempt to go into any detail, and the rest of the paragraph just gives me a choice to go on somewhere without making reference to the sidequest I was on when I met these guys.

Overall, it lacks atmosphere. It does have a couple of jokes in it, like some cat Aliens being from Whiskas-4, and a slightly lighthearted tone, but it doesn't lean into being daft enough for this to be anything other than a distraction. I'm 27 books deep into the series and must be pushing 40 gamebooks played since I started now and I guess I've less tolerance for a bad book - it's not as bad as, say, Starship Traveller but I'd hesitate to recommend this one. Normally when I finish these I like to flick back through and see where different choices would have led me, but this time I couldn't be bothered. Next!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 30 March, 2023, 05:47:19 PM
Oh dear! And there are three more books by this author to come!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 April, 2023, 12:30:30 AM
Jimbo, how are you getting on with The Crown of Kings?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 13 April, 2023, 12:01:53 PM
Just seen the original picture of Shareella the Snow Witch on a copy of Warlock Magazine and she is super-80s:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_ybVWP94ccE/TwVbGVT9IjI/AAAAAAAAAbA/4Dx2Q5p5G-A/s1600/267px-SnowWitchWarlock02.jpg)

Still got the bird hat, but a leggings and 80s ankle boots. She looks like she could be fighting the Ghostbusters.
I think I prefer this to the 80s version or Les Edwards more sultry image on the reissue.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 April, 2023, 11:19:48 PM
Good find! I wouldn't mess with her!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 April, 2023, 10:12:41 AM
Phantoms of Fear

This is another brand-new book for me, and my copy also feels very new despite being printed in 1987.

The plot here is that I'm a wood elf shaman who has had a Watership Down style vision of some terrible evil corrupting the forest and eventually all the land. I need to head off and defeat the demon prince Ishtra (who is immune to all earthly weapons). It's an interesting start and very different from the usual 'you're a wandering adventurer' stuff and the old 'only you can save the world, off you go with no provisions or friends' cliche is set due to this being some kind of dream-inspired message from the Elven gods. You being an elf is also a nice touch and this is referenced a number of times throughout.
As a shaman I have a new stat: POWER, which is a sort of measure of my dream potency and isn't capped at your starting rate like the usual FF stats. I started with a high power, which I soon found out is essential for this book (as ever, high skill is pretty important). As ever, when given the choice I always take the left-hand path (or go west)

After an inspiring dream I set off West into the forest, pausing to share a campfire with some humans moving east away from the oncoming corruption of Ishtra. As I continue west it becomes evident to me that things are not right in the forest, forcing me into combats with some forest creatures (including a skill 6 boar that beat me up quite badly). That night, asleep in a tree, I have another strange and disturbing dream but am able to navigate the visions of horror and draw further power from mastering the dream world around me. The next day, continuing west, I stumble across a sort of elephant's graveyard for the huge and majestic deer that roam the forest. I approach with humility and the spirits of the place wish we well on my quest and grant me a boon of a twelve-branched antler.
By the afternoon I am climbing a hill within the forest and decide to sleep overnight in a cave, experiencing another cryptic dream (I was initially frantically noting down all the stuff in these dreams, convinded they'd be clues and stuff - not sure they are there's too much to describe really, but they're all allegorical and weird). When morning comes the light shows me a narrow passage at the back of the cave. My magic detects no harm within, so I crawl inside and eventually come into a large cavern, illuminated by phosphorescent lichen and containing the skeleton of an adventurer with their hand trapped underneath a large rock. The rock wasn't heavy enough to trap the poor soul here, so I suspect something's up with whatever is under the rock and decline to move it, instead examining the skeleton and taking from it a silvery green pendant.
Eventually I make it out of the cavern and cresting a nearby rise am shocked to see the corrupted forest ahead of me: kilometers of rotting trees and decaying vegetation surrounded in a foul miasma. A foul wind buffets me in a way that seems almost directed, and I am forced to continue my journey at a crawl for a while before descending into the terrible valley below.
The final bastion of good before I enter the valley is some kind of pixie glade, where I am able to refresh myself and am given a second boon: a magical silvery branch, one of twenty-two. Then it's into the corrupted part of the forest, and it is grim indeed. I am informed that my magic no longer works - I'd used it exactly once so far in a useless way, so that's not really a great loss - due to the great aura of evil that permeates this place. After fighting off an attack from some manky roots from the evil trees that were no match for my elven blade I follow a worn path to a wall of poisonous brambles which, when climbed through, reveal a ramshackle hut, neatly walled off from the rest of the forest. I'm watching this shack with care when a foot comes down on the back of my neck and a gruff voice demands I give up my weapon. Ulp!

I'm a peaceable Elven type so I throw my blade aside and stand to face my captor: a wild, savage looking human with a well care for, shiny axe. It soon becomes apparent that this guy is totally crazed and has a very tenuous grip on reality as he keeps laughing and muttering to himself, but I bide my time and address him carefully and respectfully until he calms down a bit. Due to my impressive POWER score my voice and bearing eventually break through his lunacy and a semblance of sanity returns to his eyes. He offers me a small piece of amber with a number 20 inscribed upon it, and allows me to stay in his hut overnight, which seems to be a sensible option as opposed to sleeping out in the forest of evil so I accept. That night I have an awful dream where a tree attempts to throttle me, and I first deal with the rubbish dream combat (more on this later) but I am dream-victorious, increasing my power further, and the next morning my crazed host, now somewhat less crazed, offers to join me on my quest. His name is Eric Rune-Axe and he is a retired adventurer who part-lost his mind in the maze of Zagor (I empathise - we've all been there dude). With the encroaching evil of Ishtra he seems doomed if he stays alone, and I could do with a new Mungo / mate, so off we go together!
Somehow navigating the poisonous holly again we press on together, him chuckling away to himself at odd moments. In the middle of all the corruption I am surprised to spot a beautiful deer - Eric seems cautious but I approach, thinking perhaps it is an avatar or vision from the Elven gods. It isn't, it's a shapechanger, and this absolutely mauls me. Its only SKILL 10 but that outclasses me and leave me on 6 STAMINA. There's no reward for killing it so I scarf down as many nuts and berries from my pack as I can and we head on, only to be ambushed by a gang of dark elves. There's six of them and we must fight three each. Again this combat is appallingly hard for me - I dispatch my foes, leaving me on a grand total stamina of 2, only to find Eric is dead and I must face two remaining dark elves, who cut me down for an ignoble end to my quest.
Disappointed I rewind a bit, avoid the shapechanger fight so I can tackle the elves with full stamina, and die again. Looks like I'm not skilful enough to beat this one, time for a full restart...!

So using the power of Elven magic I reroll my intrepid shaman to have a higher skill and start again. Following the same path, the only real change is that fight more bears, less moose, and I lose dream combat to the nightmare tree so have less power and less in the way of provisions. Me and Eric skip the shapechanger, take on the dark elves and this time I use luck like a madman in the combat and am able to survive the ambush with a ten stamina, but Eric does not survive. I eat the rest of my lembas and sadly bury poor old Eric, who was a total Mungo indeed. It seems I must walk this path alone. With my heart full of foreboding, I approach the entrance to Ishtra's tunnels - two huge pillars of ivory flanking a tunnel winding down into darkness. Glad in the uniform of a dark elf I proceed nervously into the darkness.

As I wind donwards into the earth I begin to realise that, so close to Ishtra's power, the worlds of reality and unreality are beginning to overlap and I can at this point switch between the waking and dreamworld almost at will. When in the dreamworld I will still sleepwalk about, which seems like a terrible idea, so I decide to stick with the real world for the time being. At a fork in the tunnel a statue of a sphinx warns me that the left hand path means death - but I suspect it is lying so I take that path and lo and behold a portcullis slams down and cuts me in half. Oops!
Turns out the sphinx was lying because it meant it's own left not mine... a cruel trick. I'm not fighting those dark elves again so I restart from the sphinx, go right, and conceal myself behind a pile of bones to avoid a virtual army of orcs on the march. I'm given the option of entering the dreamworld here but nodding off behind a mound of skulls with orcs about doesn't seem wise so I press on, stubbornly sticking west and passing a checkpoint by showing a boars tusk (this apparently is what all recruits are given as passes, so the boar population round here must be decimated!)
At this point I sort of wander about it, blagging my way past various goons, until I find a series of doors marked 11,22,33,44,55 and 66. I have the option of rolling my dice and when I roll a double opening that door, a process I can continue to do, or I can wander off. I've no idea why there's no element of choice here - perhaps my Elven traditions mean opening numbered doors can only be left to fate? A ridiculous amount of dice rolling leads me to first open a pantry, then find a door is locked, and finally open a third door that brings a patrol of bad guys rushing onto me who I cannot blag past and they murder me where I stand. WEAK auto death.

I restart at the sphinx, same route, but this time I decide to try entering the dreamworld when hiding in the bone pile. As you'd expect this shifts things to the deeply surreal, as instead of tunnels and underground rivers I find myself navigating deserts, volcanos and twisted woodlands. It's all very weird and difficult to map, and after I while I get a premonition of danger so I drop out of the dreamlands and find myself in a totally different place in the dungeon, having wandered whilst asleep into a room full of some weird mutant things called prowlers. Dispatching these with my new awesome skill isn't too hard and for good measure I smash up their eggs to stop any more of the horrid things emerging. I head north but find myself back where I was last time, so I go back into the dreamworld, swim a dream-ocean, move through a bleeding forest and eventually end up having to fight a sort of dream snake-demon with legs which I can only beat by rolling 8-12 on two dice three times in succession. WTAF. In a bizarre twist, I immediately did this and with my power stat intact am able to wrest control of the dream away from this creature and escape.
As the dreamworld gets increasingly hellish I'm told I'd best get back in the real world as I'm nearing the source of corruption. I do and find myself.... back at those dice rolling doors! I'm not doing that again.
I go left, sensing 'great evil' ahead and it's an auto-death paragraph. But wait! I can enter the dreamworld here! I do so and find myself facing Morpheus, the lieutenant of Ishtra: a vast bloated maggot-like creature composed solely of the seething, roiling stuff of nightmares of all creatures. Before I can face him I have to face three dream combats, against the nightmarish visions of a harpy, clawbeast and a wraith. Unable to win, I am forced out of the dreamworld back to the auto-death paragraph where a suffocating blanket of evil envelops me and drains my lifeforce away, leaving me a husk on the tunnel floor.

At this point I sort of gave up. I'd like to revisit this one, but it cannot be emphasised how utterly not fun the dream combat is in this book. You literally just roll 2d6: on a 2 - 7 you lose 2 power and 8 - 12 the enemy does. Your power does get restored after each fight but it's boring - literally just rolling dice over and over - and it's weighted against you so it's just not fun at all. Then there was that awful bit with the doors where I just sat there trying to roll doubles until I got a roll that killed me (I assume there's a cool prize behind one of the doors, but who wants to do that and find out?) and then the fight with the snake monster which I managed to pass, but the odds were so against me doing so I'd never want to do that again.

I did actually peek ahead at the last combat and it's either another super-power fight or you need a dizzying array of items so it's not like I would have got any further (and I would have auto-died beforehand anyway due to an item I was carrying)

There's a lot of cool stuff in this book. The writing is really nicely done, with the forest bits being very descriptive and vivid (for a gamebook) and the dream sequences being confusing and strange, in a good way - I felt very invested and drawn into the world. Being able to switch between the waking world and the dream world is a great idea and it leads the final part being, from what I can tell, two separate dungeons overlaid over each other so you can navigate between them, and the final combat can be done either in the physical or the dream realm. It's very innovative stuff.
Less good is the magic: at the start you're given a list of spells, of which I got the chance to use exactly one, and then when you get to the second part of the book none of your spells work so that whole bit gets ditched. Felt like a real waste of time even having them in there.

The art is all by Ian Miller, which suits the weird dream sequences and the corrupted forests fantastically, but the cover has to be the worst one I've ever seen for a FF book, being best described as some snot demons. As a kid I didn't like Ian Miller's work at all and would actively have avoided this based on the cover: as an adult I appreciate him a lot more, but I still think this cover is dreadful.

All in all it's a book I really wanted to love but ended up putting aside out of frustration. Creature of Havoc and Nightmare Castle were two of the best in the series and then they've been followed by this, Star Strider and Crypt of the Sorcerer and I know Chasms of Malice is to come.... not a strong run for the late 20s.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 21 April, 2023, 03:31:11 PM
That's a very detailed review!

I'm not very surprised that you didn't like it much, because I know I've played that book and yet I have no recollection of it at all, except for the sleepwalking idea, which I had forgotten until you described it. And that cover is indeed truly terrible.

I think I'll have a flick through the pages to see the interior art, but I'm not going to read it, based on your review. I appreciate your noble sacrifice!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Trooper McFad on 21 April, 2023, 05:23:42 PM
Wow Boots that's almost a book in itself 😂😂

I do like your in-depth reviews even though I'm not a game book gamer I might be tempted one day when I've stopped filling my spare time modelling
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 April, 2023, 12:42:18 PM
Perhaps I did go a bit overboard on the length on this one.. glad you guys both enjoyed it!

I think with a bit of revision, this would be a very good FF book. It's unique and interesting but poorly put together in places.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 May, 2023, 02:53:30 PM
Midnight Rogue

I've had a week off work and spent some of it playing this. It's almost all new books for me now in the series and this was a completely new read. The concept is that I am a low-ranking member of the thieves guild in Port Blacksand and to graduate I have to undertake a test - to find and steal the priceless Eye of the Basilisk gem from a merchant named Brass before dawn comes (I thought the time limit would be significant, but it isn't at all and is never referred to again, apart from the fact that whole quest takes place at night)
I start with some basic thief gear and a choice of 'special skills' - climb, hide, sneak, pick lock, pick pocket and spot hidden. It sounds like I'll be on a burglary job, so I go with spot hidden, sneak and pick lock.

Starting off I'm given the choice of going straight to Brass's house, the merchant guild or a scummy area of town called The Noose. I decide to go with the latter to try and scope out some info on my target. I chat to a beggar, who gives me some basic info and a rope and grapple (not sure why he had that on him - but this gives me the climb skill) before sloping off to the pub where I win some coin but lack the secret signs skill so don't get much more info. A visit to Madame Star (from City of Thieves) proves more useful as she says I must visit both a place of sleep, a place of work, and then a place of death.
Figuring this means Brass's house and office, I head to the merchant's quarter, run afoul of a ghoul that was lurking around, then proceed to case the joint. The guard is barely awake, and I am sneaky, so I cosh him over the head and then am about to try the door when I notice a secret sign on it. Even though I don't have secret signs skill the book tells me not to open the door, so I go around the building. An unlocked door looks tempting, but I can hear someone within, so instead I use my rope and grapple to get onto the roof. Unfortunately the roof edge is covered in sharp shards of glass, which cuts my rope to bits and also my hands when I desperately pull myself over the edge for skill and stamina penalties.
Wrapping my bloodied hands in rags I discover the glass wasn't the only deterrent on the roof: a gargoyle animates and attacks me. I skip through the skylight, dodge some traps with my spot hidden skills, pick the lock to brasses office and rifle his desk, finding a significant key and some deeds of purchase showing Brass has bought some land at 'Barrow Hill'. A place of death was it? Aha!
Job done here I head off to Brass's house, dodge the city watch, pick the lock and head upstairs. Brass's home office has a safe in it with two locks, of which I have one key - I try picking the other but the lock contains a tiny poisonous snake that whips out and bites me, so I give that up as a bad job and instead try to find Brass's bedroom. With my sneaky skills its easy to creep around without alerting the household, and soon I'm standing over the sleeping Brass himself looking at the second key, which is around his neck. I try to lift it, but without the deft fingers pick pocket skill would provide I wake him and have to flee the house in a hurry. My only choice now is to go to the gem's location. I'm sure it's at Barrow Hill (rather than, say, Lors Azzurs Palace) but when I get there, I'm lacking the info I needed from the safe and have to give up my quest. FAIL.

Second attempt! This time I choose pick lock, pick pocket and sneak, skipping spot hidden.

This time I broadly retrace my previous run , minus a few missteps like the ghoul. Ignoring the guard at the merchant's guild, this time I eschew the roof and try the unlocked door where the person within turns out to be... another beggar who this time gives me some lock picks, duplicating the pick lock skill. Score!
He lets me into the guild, but this time I don't have spot hidden and set off the 'alarm' - a Jib-Jib (as seen in Sorcery) hidden in an alcove in the wall. I have to step on the poor little chap to stop it yelling and alerting everyone.
From there it's back up the Brass's office, steal his key and stuff, back to the house, have a little poke around to ensure I'm on the right track, and then successfully take the key from the sleeping merchant's neck. This enables me to unlock the safe (not sure where the snake goes) and pillage the contents which includes confirmation that the Eye is indeed at Barrow Hill.
I've now got all three numeric clues I needed (from Star, the office desk and house safe) so off I go to Barrow Hill where I find both a barrow and the burnt out, ruined remains of a house. I solve a reasonably easy puzzle on a rotating statue that opens up a hidden doorway in the barrow itself, so lighting my torch I tiptoe down the stairs to find what's within - what's within turns out to be a pit trap, which now lacking spot hidden I plunge into and only escape because I have the rope and grapple from the beggar.
Battered and bruised, I continue on, encountering bats, a fake door, a secret door and some skeletons from the barrow itself. After dispatching the latter, I must fight a skeleton lord with a thief-mauling magic sword. Victorious I loot various junk but I can't figure out the secret sign in the barrow and cannot proceed further. FAIL AGAIN.

OK, that sucks. Third try. This time I go with pick pockets, sneak and spot hidden.

Basically, it's a full replay of the above, without the jib-jib murder and the pitfall. This time I get battered quite badly by the skeleton lord but despite not knowing the secret sign, spot hidden allows me to figure out that the dais in the barrow can be rolled back leading to a hidden underground level. There are steps down here with an ogre asleep at the bottom, which is weird, but I sneak past him and into an underground dungeon complex. This doesn't seem very merchant-y...
I navigate a few traps with my skills, climb down a hole and drop into a black chamber where I can hear something shuffling about and breathing. Using sneak I'm able to navigate the room in the dark, and then pick the lock on the door on the otehr side in pure blackness - serious skills here! Once out I can't resist lighting the room up and of course it's got a basilisk in it. Only a luck test stops me being immediately petrified.
Next up I have to fight my own shadow, which I outfox by using my torch to disrupt it being cast by a sorcerous torch. Moving on I find a dead thief in the corridor - as I'm examining the corpse something blue and glowing, like a flaming ghost skull, comes whipping out of the darkness at me. I roll aside and it strikes the body, animating it and lurching to attack. Dead thieves make poor combatants, but as I dispatch it the ghostly spirit bleeds out of it and attacks me with an evil chuckle, attempting to possess me. Had I not had the magic sword from back in the skeleton lord's crypt I would be toast at this point, but there's literally no way to get here without getting past the bony menace so I win the battle, but this is a horrifically hard fight compared the reasonably easy ones so far. I then dodge a very obvious lure and a couple more traps (including a good one with rock grubs), fight an animated door (proving one shouldn't listen at every door one finds in a dungeon) and then battle a poisonous giant spider. By the end of this fight my provisions are looking pretty devastated..
I climb the spiders web, avoiding sticky strands and the corpses of other poor unfortunates and come up into another corridor, running with moisture and thick with mould. At the end of the corridor my spot hidden skill reveals a body, stuck to the wall and overgrown with fungus. There's also a door handle, and using my pick pocket skill I ease the handle round without disturbing the spores and fling myself through the door into the passages beyond.
The next bit is a maze, and I don't have a map, so am reduced to testing my luck to escape it. My luck is now all but exhausted so I neck my potion of fortune and eventually navigate my way to a room with a chest, a door, and two crystal statues of warriors, identical to the one from Caverns of the Snow Witch. Sure enough, one animates and attacks me.
Now at this point the book asks me if I'm using a stone axe. I do have a stone axe - I found it back in the skeleton crypt - but I've been using the super magic sword (there's been no indication before that I can fight with the axe) so I'm honest and say no. This means I have to fight the Skill 10 crystal warrior and -2 skill using the pommel of my sword as a weapon. Obviously, I lose and die. FAIL. I wasn't too impressed with that bit.
Annoyed, I 'reload', change to the axe and win the fight - barely - and pick the lock on the chest. This causes the chest to deliver a brutal electric shock to me and leaves me perilously close to death.
The chest contains a large flat disc of obsidian. My spot hidden skill shows it is resting on a silver wire that connects to the second crystal warrior, but I've got pick pocket so I Indiana Jones it and loot the disc before opening the door to see what lies beyond.
Final room! The Eye of the Basilisk is within, resting on a plinth and bathed in light. The book tells me there is likely a final trap and it is connected to the light. I hold up the disc, blocking the light, and whip the gem out from beneath it.
Trumphantly holding the gem I am horrified to see it is nothing but a worthless glass fake! But what's this? A secret door opens and out come all the thieves. "It was a trick all along!" they say "You've passed the test!" Thundercats ending-style laughter ensues. I've graduated... although personally I'd be pretty cheesed off to have undergone such an incredibly lethal test that surely kills 90% of those who attempt it. I guess in the city of thieves, the standard is set pretty high!


On the whole this wasn't a hugely difficult book - only took me four attempts once I'd figured out the skills you needed. The skills themselves aren't the fun Way of the Tiger style addition I thought they would be as some of them were essential and others seemed pretty useless. There's a real spike in difficulty at the end - for most of the books it seems a low skill can get you through with clever play but really, less than Skill 10 is likely to lead to death.
I really liked the first half when I was mucking about in the city, and it was also extremely forgiving by allowing me to double back and return to locations. It did a good job of portraying the mission and there were some cool references to City of Thieves and other books. Some of the bits that seemed a bit odd, like the beggars giving me stuff and the setup with the keys, made a lot of sense at the end once you know the concept of the test rather than, say, Resident Evil 2 where the police station has a bunch of random key puzzles in it. The second half of the book was basically a dungeon crawl and therefore significantly less interesting, although still neatly done with some good traps in it.

Art is by the excellent John Sibbick and as you'd expect its lovely stuff. The bulk of the pictures are scenery rather than monsters as it's not a very monster-y book, with a lot of them being first person perspective. It's all cool stuff.

Overall, I'd say this was a good book. It's different enough in its execution to overcome its weaker elements and it was simple enough to be a reasonably quick, yet not easy, play after some of the slogs I've done lately. Whilst I'd have preferred the book to all be heist, I still had fun playing it. Three and a half out of five Jib-Jibs.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 10 May, 2023, 05:56:51 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 10 May, 2023, 02:53:30 PMTrumphantly holding the gem I am horrified to see it is nothing but a worthless glass fake! But what's this? A secret door opens and out come all the thieves. "It was a trick all along!" they say "You've passed the test!"
If I'd been through all of that, only for my classmates to jump out shouting, "Surprise! It's only a bit of coloured glass!" they'd shortly become acquainted with my super magic sword and my stone hammer.
Some practical jokes just aren't funny.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 10 May, 2023, 10:04:39 PM
I know, right? Thieves Guild? Bellends Guild more like.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 May, 2023, 03:26:40 PM
Chasms of Malice

No writeup on this one, because it doesn't deserve one. I think I'd played this book before, and I definitely knew it by reputation and sadly that reputation was justified.

The book starts off with a good couple of pages detailing the setting of Khul and the people who live there - including the underground dwelling Gaddon or 'Feelbrethren' who migrated underground from the human kingdoms above due to religious persecution and now are blind but super-sensed up, like a race of Daredevils. The ancient evil has awoken as usual and you're the only one to stop it despite being a lowly kitchen worker due to your bloodline so you get given a sword and a cat and sent off to kill the villainous Orghuz. Is that Orghuz on the cover? Not sure because the book doesn't really decsribe him, and he doesn't ride a horse either, so probably not?

The book is insanely hard - riddled with luck tests and stamina penalties that make it impossible to get through without stunning dice rolls: if you don't run out of stamina you'll run out of luck, and pretty much every luck test is fatal if you fail it. There are also numerous random bits where you have to roll over or under your stamina to not die, or roll two dice and if the first one is higher you die (eg. rolling one dice for how stealthy you are and another for how deeply the guards are sleeping) or pick a random number to not die (such as when you have to choose a rank to stand in when infiltrating an army of orcs and then every second soldier gets thrown into a piranha pit)
The there's the absolute cherry on the top which is 'one strike combat'. This genius idea consists of rolling once for yourself and once for your enemy and the lowest roll is killed instantly. Sometimes you have to do this three or four times in a row.

It all adds up to a very unsatisfactory experience with death being seemingly impossible to avoid and the book becoming a horrendous slog. Even worse, the bulk of the book consists of wandering aimlessly around a number of tunnel networks, rooms of ledges with no real rhyme or reason as to which direction to take. The final part of the book, Orghuz's lair, is essentially a maze full of 'go left or right' type choices, with little context of clue and masses of auto-death paragraphs, quite often with all doors but one from any given room being an auto-death result. In the end I shelved my dice and resorted to outright cheating to finish the book. The ending isn't great, btw as the villain is unmemorable and the final passage is a 'hurray you won, the end' job.
The writing isn't the best with a lot of the paragraphs very short and clipped, encounters seemingly unlinked, giving a very random feel, and an odd slightly wry feel to some parts that, combined with the difficulty, gives the vague sense that the author is mocking the reader somewhat. It feels a bit like the sort of D&D dungeon I would have run when I was 11 and just wanted to fill rooms up with traps and monsters and random cool stuff instead of crafting a coherent experience for the player.
There's a couple of interesting ideas at the start - instead of a potion you're given a cat who functions as either a potion of luck or skill and can help you 8 other times, but there didn't seem to be many opportunities to use the cat, so this fell a bit flat. You're also given the names of the bad guys 7 lieutenants and can cross them off as you kill them. This sounds cool, but I only ever met one, and at the end you have to fight the (Skill 10) villain an extra time for every one you don't kill which isn't fun at all. Better is the cypher system used by the underground dudes that you can use to open magic doors - I'm not sure what happens if you don't get this, but I assume you die a lot.

It's not all terrible - Russ Nicholson is on art duties and draws a lot of orcs and goblins as fantastically as only he can. The book is also seemingly quite non-linear, as it has several routes to get to the final maze and there aren't really any items to pick up, meaning there's no point where you get to the end and die if you don't have x,y and z in your inventory.

Overall this is definitely in my bottom 5 for the books I've played so far!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 16 May, 2023, 01:21:53 AM
Bloody hell, that book sounds desperately unfair!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 May, 2023, 10:26:09 AM
It might be the worse one to date in terms of how it's constructed, although it might not be the worst one I've read so far - at least the art was nice, unlike Starship Traveller. It sounds like there's some pretty bad books to come though.

I've also got exactly 30 books left to read in the series (I'm not doing them all, I can't afford some of them!) I'll keep posting about them here until people stop reading it, I guess.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 16 May, 2023, 02:29:50 PM
I'll do some too, I just won't have time until June.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 May, 2023, 04:07:17 PM
Fighting Fantasy have just posted that Russ Nicholson has passed away. What awful news.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 17 May, 2023, 06:15:38 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 17 May, 2023, 04:07:17 PMFighting Fantasy have just posted that Russ Nicholson has passed away. What awful news.

If I didn't periodically read this thread than I'd have forgotten all about Russ Nicholson.
I've been looking again at his work and appreciating what a major talent the man was.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 May, 2023, 01:41:48 AM
What a great shame. His work was phenomenal. His illustrations were so detailed and macabre, I loved them when I was a kid, and I still love them now. He added so much to these books.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 18 May, 2023, 08:16:29 AM
2000AD and Fighting Fantasy - the two great pillars of British childhood geekdom in the early 1980s, and few exemplify the latter as much as Russ Nicholson did.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 May, 2023, 09:26:57 AM
Absolutely. I can safely say that Fighting Fantasy artwork hugely shaped my life: I can distinctly remember the Christmas where I was given a box of aniseed balls and two books: a PG Wodehouse, and Forest of Doom. I loved both but the latter had me absolutely hooked.

I was a Star Wars nerd and an avid reader of Battle at the time, but the grotesque and fantastic art in FF books led me towards 2000ad, D&D, and then heavy metal music, all of which ended up defining so much of my world, my friendships, my marriage. It all kickstarted the path I ended up on.

It's all a bit of a rambling way to say that Russ Nicholson was a real talent and his work has a special place in my heart. Gone but never forgotten.

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 18 May, 2023, 12:33:43 PM
I avoided also mentioning Star Wars by specifying British, but it could easily have been the crosspiece to the pillars - and I can't think of any further additions in that very slightly pre-Warhammer world...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 May, 2023, 03:25:27 PM
Oh yeah, I'm not really sure why I mentioned that. I suppose because I was into sci-fi and comics back then, but it felt like FF and 2000ad took it to another level. The art was less sanitised and more twisted, it felt exciting.

I remember poring over Russ Nicholson's work in White Dwarf, all twisted goblinoid faces and bloody carnage. That British style of fantasy artwork always had an edge of nastiness that elevated it, for me, over the big US guys like Larry Elmore or Clyde Caldwell. I've always felt there's a stark difference between American stuff like D&D and British fantasy like Warhammer - one's all wizards, Dragons and Unicorns, and in the other everyone lives in the mud and things come out the forest and eat you.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: sheridan on 18 May, 2023, 03:46:26 PM
No, it's fine - I almost put Star Wars, but decided against it, on a whim!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 June, 2023, 05:42:37 PM
I got Kev Crossley to sign my copy of Blood of the Zombies at Lawless - it's been on my shelf for over a decade unplayed and finally had a go at it this week.

It's pretty rubbish, in all honesty, and the main part of that comes from the combat. There's no SKILL or LUCK in this book (making it very Un-FF-ish) and you basically only fight zombies (I also fought some mutant rats, but they counted as zombies, more or less). When you fight zombies, you roll your weapon damage and kill that many zombies, then all the others do 1 damage to you.
It's very quick, but in practice very uninteresting: once you've got a decent weapon like a gun (2d6+5 damage when I got a gangster tommy gun out of a violin case, no less) you auto-kill small groups of zombies without bothering to roll and those fights are hugely anticlimactic, but when you meet a group of 20 or so zombies and all you've got is a D6 damage baseball bat you're totally doomed to take loads of damage and even having a decent weapon can leave you taking 10 stamina damage in a round.
After dying over and over I read a tip that there's no max stamina, so I maxed my stamina out and every time I got a healing item just increased my stamina over the base 24, but still died. It's not fun. In the end I stopped tracking stamina and was on -36 stamina when I just gave up due to the general monotony of it. I can't imagine getting to the end and finding I hadn't exterminated literally every zombie in the book.

Knowing that you need to kill every zombie to win encourages exploration - instead of trying to avoid traps and enemies you're literally opening every door you can to try and find them all.  Plotwise it's set in the modern day, and you're stuck in a castle where some dude is trying to create an army of zombies etc etc.. it's all very Resident Evil. The video game feel is further enhanced by constantly finding boxes of bullets and shotgun shells, but the game never asks you to keep track of your ammo... was this a rule that got scrapped? There's also a huge number of weapons and items to find and carry around, most of which are useless. You can also change clothes a lot, which has no bearing on the game at all either. It actually reminded me a bit of Dead Rising.

Bizarrely the rooms and sometimes zombies or photos of people are often described in great detail to no end. There's a lot of in-jokes in the game (such as being able to find copies of Owl and Weasel or The Warlock of Firetop Mountain, and even a birthday card for Zagor) so I wonder if Livingstone is describing actual places and people.

The book reads a bit like either an attempt to reboot the series, as it deviates so heavily from the classic ones in so many ways, or a video game translated into book form. It's all a bit of a flop with repetitive enemies, the need to explore everywhere means it is incredibly long, and without cheating is literally impossible according to online commentary I have read about it.

The art is amazing and really good stuff from Kev Crossley. That's the best thing about this.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 01 June, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
That all sounds terrible!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 02 June, 2023, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I cannot recommend it on any level really. I finished it this morning on -90 Stamina. I probably could have done better with some better dice rolls, but not by much. Apparently the app version gives you 2d6+40 starting stamina and there's tons more healing items.

There's a terrible bit at the end where you fight the main bad guy hand to hand, but because there's no skill you're just taking it in turns rolling 1d6-3 damage for each combatant. That went on for a while.

Huge miss by Ian Livingstone. Definitely don't play this one.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 02 June, 2023, 08:49:00 PM
I've had one go at Blood of the Zombies and also found it pretty tedious. The only thing I really remember (I think) is being blown up by a grenade I had thrown, and being kind of relieved.

I haven't posted in this thread for a while but wanted to mention that the three books you sent me have all been played, Barrington, and thoroughly enjoyable they are too. Even Scorpion Swamp was better than I remember!

I also wanted to mention that my wife gave me a present this year of a game book in a series called Bloodsword, with the incredible title The Battlepits of Krarth, a reprint of an 80s series, which looks pretty good! And artwork by the great Russ Nicholson too. Looking forward to giving it a go.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 05 June, 2023, 03:08:14 PM
Really glad you've played and enjoyed them Cactus! I think I was middling about Scorpion Swamp but having read a few real stinkers of late I remember it a lot more fondly.

Battlepits of Karth sounds wicked! I've got a huge pile of gamebooks to get through but let us know if its any good as I'd like to give it a go sometime soon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 06 June, 2023, 10:40:16 PM
I googled the art for that book and it looks amazing!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 07 June, 2023, 07:48:27 AM
Quote from: Richard on 06 June, 2023, 10:40:16 PMI googled the art for that book and it looks amazing!

Planning to try it out tomorrow so we'll see how it goes. The interior art is lovely. I hadn't heard of the series but my wife did some research before buying it for me and apparently it is rated quite highly by those in the know. I assumed you folks would know all about it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 June, 2023, 12:25:52 PM
BATTLEBLADE WARRIOR

The story on this one is that I am the prince (or princess) of the city of Vymorna, which has been under siege for six years by an army of Lizardmen. The lizards are trying to conquer Allansia and Vymora is a staunch holdout - although they don't seem to be anywhere other than near Vymora itself, as none of the nearby settlements seem to be under the lizard yoke. Interestingly the Lizard King is mentioned as the commander and whilst this could easily be a different holder of that title, could this be set pre-IotLK? It'd be cool if so as the Lizardmen are a bit of a spent force by then.
Anyway, the King is long dead and my mum, the queen is in charge. With things looking desperate we decide to gamble on some dreams and omens and send me off after the Blade of Telak, a goodly god around these parts, which is held by a guy called Laskar who dwells in the nearby Lion Heights mountains. This, I assume, is the titular battleblade (this was a bit disappointing as I was hoping I'd either be playing a swordsmaster dude or would be getting a novelty magic sword of some kind. Neither of these things happen).

Starting off I'm given the choice of two out of three of the city's magic items - my father's bow and 3 silver arrows, a globe of light, or some healing balm. The first is useful, if no different mechanically from a normal bow, the second is pointless and the third awesome. Obviously I took the bow and the globe however.
My next choice is how to escape the city - sneak out and steal a boat to escape downriver, sneak out on foot, or simply bust out by smashing through the lizard ranks. As the size of the Lizardman army has been emphasised as being especially huge I decide to take the boat. Straight away I bungle my luck roll and end up fighting a lizardman guard, but with him dispatched I'm able to sneak out under the cover of darkness and drift off down the Vymorn River. I decide to stick to the northern bank, as the southern bank borders the horrible sounding Swamplands of Silur-Cha, and am rewarded by a fairly easy journey where all I have to do is dodge some swamp goblin coracles, until a bungled skill roll sees me stupidly taking the boat into some rapids where it gets smashed and all my provisions are lost.
Coming to face down on the bank, drenched but otherwise unharmed, I decide to avoid the open plain where i could be spotted easily and head directly east into the Nightshriek Jungle in order to make the best time. After hours of morale-sapping chopping through the jungle I'm given the chance to scavenge for provisions and load up on local fruits. Some fresh mango restores my spirits and I'm further bolstered by finding a rare black lotus flower. I press on till dark and decide to sleep up a tree to avoid anything coming upon me and eating me in the night. A big panther promptly does climb up the tree in the night: I stay as still as possible as it hauls an antelope carcass up the tree and proceeds to tear it to bits, crunching bones and chewing up gristle mere feet from where I sit. I think I've got away with it as it stands, stretches and makes ready to depart before it stops and stares me straight in the eyes and then bounds off. I get a cryptic clue from this that I never make use of at all, which is a shame as it's a cool scene.
With the panther off I also head off, deviating from my straight path to explore some temple ruins from some long-dead civilisation. Everything here has a panther theme, which seems very ominous.. I recover a small statue of a panther from the idol of the panther god and stick it in my backpack before heading away.
By now I'm starting to worry that I've taken too much time - my city is in danger, after all, so I proceed more directly, stopping only to eat some more papaya and stuff and kill off a bunch of mischievous monkeys that try to steal my sword. By sunset on the second day the ground has begun to get swampy and marshy underfoot so I stop to camp on dryer ground, only to have some gigantic crocodile monster pop out of the swamp and attack me. This is a totally hard fight and I get absolutely battered before 'enjoying' a sleepless night waiting for more horrors to emerge from the muck, but nothing does.

The next day the jungle seems less foreboding, until I'm attacked by a vast gang of Tarzan-like panther warriors, all wearing adorable furry hats with ears. Luckily they suck at fighting, so I make short work of these goons and eventually break from the foliage to see the mountain range ahead of me. There's a lizardman here flapping about on a Pteranodon but I've got my father's bow, so I shoot him out of the sky. Then it's mountain climbing time, where I pass by a rudimentary illusion and finally reach the summit to find Laskar waiting for me.
Laskar is an old hermit, old, wild-bearded and shabbily dressed. He claims to have been expecting me and leads me back to his cave where he gives me some stew and says Telak came to him in a vision too and told him to aid me when I arrived. The next day he leads me to a vast ravine wherein lies the ancient, ruined city of Kharnek, once home of some fabled warrior kings, where obviously I must venture (alone, because Laskar is too old to face the 'deathless ones') to find not only the sword of my quest, now named as 'The Arm of Telak' but also The Eyes of Telak, something Laskar doesn't know anything about. We climb down the ravine and he points out a portion of collapsed courtyard with twisting, dark, spooky tunnels leading off it. "You go in there" he says "And I'll climb up to the ruined temple to wait for you." Ok mate. I duck into the tunnel and am given the option to wait and watch Laskar before descending and when i do I see he's immediately ambushed and escorted off by a bunch of lizardmen!
Another bunch of lizardmen are heading my way so I make haste into the ruined passages. The cool, dark tunnels below are something of a maze with a bewildering number of passages. As ever I always look to take the left-hand path when negotiating these catacombs, finding little but ancient remains and dusty statues of long-dead warriors. Finding a room full of thousands of skulls, organs and other specimens in jars I'm prompted that something seems a bit off given this is a fabled lost city of supposed goodliness. That's further reinforced when the next room I enter begins literally bleeding, with blood trickling through cracks and holes in the walls and ceiling to pool around my feet. Trapped in this nightmarish chamber I'm accosted by the lizardmen who have presumably been tracking me and have to fight them, but they're little match for me and eventually I make my mistake. Now tired, slathered in blood and presumably stinking and squelching I navigate more tunnels and eventually make a long climb to a room where I spot Laskar himself waiting.
Once again I am given the option of hanging back, so I do and to my complete lack of surprise some lizardmen come in and begin chatting amiably with Laskar. Laskar has betrayed me!
The book now asks if I have the arm of Telak. I don't. I'm overpowered by lizardmen and Laskar, it seems, has the sword himself! He chuckles evilly and gloatingly asks if I have the Eyes of Telak. I don't. Going left sucks.  With an evil laugh, Laskar orders the Lizardmen to cut me down. My adventure, and the hopes of Vymora, end here.

ROUND 2

This time I decide to try a different way out of the city and choose the option to sneak out under cover of darkness. Shrouded in night and wrapped in a cloak I slip past burned out buildings and into the lizard trenches that encircle the city. The trenches themselves are choked with bodies and debris - disease must be running rampant in the lizardman ranks, surely? I'm thinking here that stealth is paramount so I do my best to avoid detection and fights, staying close to the walls. On the one occasion I am challenged, by a lizardman standing above, I haul him into the trench by his foot, breaking his neck and leaving him amongst the dead. At another point I duck into a tent to avoid being spotted only to come face to face with a lizard lady reclining in a horrible slime bath, but I'm able to blag my way out by bowing and babbling nonsense before the alarm is raised. After the trenches I make my way carefully through the tents and baggage train of the siege to the edge of the army camp, where a number of riding lizards are kept - ideal for me! There's no way to do this without raising the alarm that I can see, so I just jump on one and speed off with a gang of lizardmen chasing after me.
I head north into across the Axehead Plains, but the pursuit is relentless. Eventually I try to duck into some trees, only for an arrow to come whipping out of them and kill my stolen mount stone dead. The shooter is some kind of tough looking ranger dude with a demented look on his face - he doesn't say much but indicates we should ambush the pursuing lizardmen. I've got my bow, and between us (and this guys pet sabre tooth tiger!) we make short work of them with only a couple escaping. He introduces himself as Julius Lecarte, an adventurer in search of his father. I get the feeling I should know who this guy is - is he from another FF book or similar? Anyway, he suggests I head to the town of Capra, but before we do that he decides to set a trap for any more pursuit and promptly assembles a big pile of wood, soaks it in oil and adds gunpowder ('Flashpowder from Sardath' - the first use of gunpowder in non-sci fi FF?) and when the lizards come back with reinforcements we blow them all sky high!
Lecarte and I, and his tiger, head to Capra for an overnight and then we're off again (i thought this would be a new location to explore, but it's done in two paragraphs). Lecarte is heading west whilst I must go north, then east, but before we part he disguises me as a non-human with, essentially, mud and tells me to find a man called White Eye who will help me out.
I head north into the mists. Surprised by the tolling of a bell, I investigate and find a small group of mourners gathered around a funeral bier. Getting closer, I find the mourners are orcs - one being a shaman, who is throwing entrails and bones about, whilst the others are weeping and looking super solemn. For an inexplicable reason I join the queue of mourners who are queuing up to bite the corpse, for it appears in Vymora, orc tradition is that one must leave their teeth marks on the dead. Against all odds my mud disguise is holding up so I dutifully take a big bite of orc and lose a bunch of stamina. I then have to greet all the old orcs. There is much orc hugging, an orc asks me my name and I totally blag it, and then I am passed a mug of dreaded orc ale which I end up drinking and lose even more stamina. The orcs are by now all drunk and laughing and singing, and I crawl off and pass out on a hillside.
The next day I wake up with a splitting hangover that reduces my skill badly. Feeling like absolute crap I stagger north where I link up with a young woman called Kayta, who I meet on the road. She is a messenger from a place called Coppertown far to the north, come south to request aid from Vymora against trolls and lizardmen. Obviously they haven't heard of the SIX YEAR SIEGE that we've been under from an army big enough to block out the sun. I break the news to her and she looks crushed, but we decide to press on together - perhaps after I get Telaks sword and smash the siege I can hop up to Coppertown and do the same there. Her horse immediately dies from the hard ride. We continue on foot and are almost straight away captured by snakemen from the desert of skulls (we try to hide, but upon seeing them Katya leaps out with her sword, then faints in horror). The snakemen stake us out in the sun to die, which Katya duly does with no ceremony whatsoever marking her as the most short lived and useless companion for a while (this is a shame, as there could have been a bit of pathos here, but as it is we barely knew her)
I lie staked out a bit in the sun, slowly dying of exposure, test my luck but my luck is rubbish due to loads of checks back at the roc funeral bit, fail and die. The birds pick my bones clean and Vymora gets crushed by lizardmen. Game over.

ROUND 3

Re-rolling that luck check gets me rescued by an old trader in a caravan who nurses me back to health. It turns out he is none other than White Eye, the very guy I was looking for, but although he is sympathetic to my quest he will only trade me info on Laskar for some kind of valuable and proceeds to list all the cool stuff I picked up in the jungle in playthrough one, like the panther statue and the lotus flower (I assume the info is that Laskar is a dick).
White Eye bids me farewell and drops me off by the jungle, at which point I pick up the narrative from playthrough 1, fighting the swamp monster and eventually finding Laskar and heading into the catacombs. I take a slightly different route and wind up falling into a pit of vipers. Escaping that with a bundle of rags I find at the bottom I open the rags to reveal a beautiful bejewlled sword - surely the Arm of Telak! The sword has something missing from the hilt, so like a fool I carefully stow it in my backpack instead of using it against the occupant of the next room - a long dead warrior king, animated and out for blood. I finish this fight on 1 stamina.
The warrior king at last sent to rest I scavenge his crown - or more precisely the two emeralds embedded upon it. Popping them out with my knife reveals them to be two halves of the same stone. I put these in my backpack. Naviagting some more passages I come upon a big altar to Telak with a huge ruby set on it. This looks like an obvious trap to me, and indeed when I investigate some undead spider demon guys rush out and make mincemeat of me with my puny stamina.

ROUND 4

Now I know what I'm doing I take the short route back. This time avoiding the altar takes me straight to Laskar, but this time I do have the Arm of Telak. Do I hve the eyes? I'm asked which of a number of gemstones I should put into the hilt: I think the clue is that the only one that's more than one stone is the emeralds (and I don't have any of the rest) and lo and behold this is correct. Adding the emeralds to the sword imbues it with holy power and with a cry to Telak I leap out and chop the traitorous and defenseless old man in two. His lizardmen cohorts cower before Telak's sword as it pulses with holy might. About me forms begin to coalesce from the air - a thousand golden warriors weilding golden weapons. They make short work of the lizardmen and with Telak's sword aloft I lead them south to smash the lizard army and free my city. THE END.



It was all fun, but also a bit meh at the end, and the problem is that the first half of the book was infinitely better than the second. Escaping the siege is a lot of fun as is exploring the plains and jungle, but then the dungeon bit is just a lot of left / right choices and it's all a bit cliche. The ending is the ultimate deus ex machina and it's a bit unsatisfying - suddenly a legion of dudes appear, you win - a whole book about breaking out of the siege would have been great, or perhaps instead of finding Laskar and going into his dungeon the reader could have reached another city, had a bit of politicking and then leading an army back to rescue their people. The politic / army stuff in Way of the Tiger was great, but what we've got here felt a bit flat.

Other than that, the writing is strong and this was fun although (so long as you have at least Skill 10, as there are two unavoidable fights that need that) it was pretty easy. There are way more provisions than you need and hardly any items to collect until you reach the end. The setup is really good, feels well thought out and deep in the lore (Marc Gascoigne wrote this, so perhaps expected) and the pre-dungeon bits are all interesting and read well, plus the non-linear nature of it makes it interesting to replay should you need to. Even the dungeon isn't actually bad tbh - it's neatly written and it at least feels like a ruined complex, as much of it is abandoned and not stuffed with weird monsters for no reason. We joke about Mungos but Katya really is the most Mungo-y FF companion yet as she joins you and then dies within a couple of paragraphs having done nothing of use or interest at all! The orc funeral is a great bit so it's a shame that it's totally optional.

The art is credited to David Gallagher in my edition but it's clearly Alan Langford, following on from Island of the Lizard King which means the same awesome looking, toothy, slightly yampy lizardmen and dinosaurs as that book. Most of the art is of lizardmen, and it's a bit of a shame they more or less fade out of the book in the second half. There's a sexy lady lizardman in this one and she's no City of Thieves snake queen.

Decent but nothing special would be my verdict on this one.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 23 June, 2023, 03:08:45 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 23 June, 2023, 12:25:52 PMI am the prince (or princess) of the city of Vymorna,
Be who you need to be.
No one here is judging you.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 June, 2023, 12:12:24 AM
What a detailed write up! I enjoyed reading that. I have this book but I remember nothing about it, but I'm tempted to give it another go now.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: soggy on 02 July, 2023, 04:03:09 PM
In case you are unaware, there is currently a kickstarter running for a board/card game based on four of the Fighting Fantasy books

http://kck.st/46s586z (http://kck.st/46s586z)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 July, 2023, 10:08:22 AM
I wasn't aware of that - cheers! I'm not sure this KS is going to be a success. Martin Wallace is a good designer but the game itself looks very bland. I appreciate that it's mentioned that the example game and art shown is generic and not based on one of the FF books, but without the classic art (or reimagining of it, as I assume it will be) it underlines how generic this looks and lacking in 'FF-ness'.

Postage looks brutal outside of Australia too.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 July, 2023, 11:52:10 AM
SLAVES OF THE ABYSS

Finished this one last week. It was my first experience of it, and it is a great book. It's my first one by Paul Mason who I know did a few well-regarded ones and was very interesting and eloquent at Fighting Fantasy Fest. I have the notes for a full writeup but I'm hesitant to do it as I don't want to spoil it if others haven't played it yet.

It's set in Kallamehr, which is in the Arabic Southern part of Allansia, and you play a famous adventurer summoned to help against an invading army. You're given the choice of three tasks which is a bit of a non-choice really as one is a death choice and the second quickly becomes the third, but from there things get really interesting as the threat is not as it appears and the book moves from a race against time to a mystery to a slightly surreal venture into another mysterious plane of existence. In a nice touch, because you are already a famous badass, if you roll double six in combat you auto-kill your enemy in one hit unless told otherwise.

It's a very well written FF: the settings and challenges are fairly unusual, and the plot doesn't spoon-feed you information, but a few playthroughs and paying attention enables you to join the dots yourself as to what is going on in the background and why certain characters react the way they do towards you, or who is committing certain nefarious acts. The inventory is quite small and it's more about figuring things out than finding a checklist of stuff. It just felt like quite a fresh and interesting experience throughout. The Riddling Reaver makes a cameo which is a good or a bad thing depending on how you feel about him.

It's not all great: there's a very drawn-out death sequence where you get lost in a forest, each paragraph costs you 1 stamina, and you bounce between six entries with no way out until you die which is maddening. On the next replay I realised that there's a clue very early on that shows you how to avoid this, but I'd have preferred a single 'you're lost and die' paragraph rather than that protracted death, despite its cleverness. There's also a fight against a tough opponent that ends as soon as he hits you once, because he's a villain who has poisoned his sword. This did for me a few times but eventually I won through with the double six auto kill. Finally, the book uses a time track, with a couple of paragraphs marked on it to turn to when you hit that point, and my printing didn't include that time track at all. It's available online, luckily.

That's all by the by though. I really enjoyed this and despite multiple deaths was always keen to pick it back up: combats aren't hard on the whole, so the book isn't a slog (I'd say Skill 10 minimum though) and it rewards thoughtful choices and paying attention, which is the gold standard for these imo. Art is by Bob Harvey who I have a great fondness for, but the art isn't the high point here (although there's a cool picture of a monster in an oubliette). I've seen people moaning online about the cover but I think it's a good one - really stands out from the pack. Perhaps it's because it makes it look a bit sci-fi.

Overall, I really recommend this one. Next book for me is Sky Lord, which I think is in the top 3 worst ever FF books!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 July, 2023, 01:49:02 PM
Slaves of the Abyss is a brilliant book! Looking forward to your full write-up, if you do one.

Also I've just discovered that Usborne has started a line of new gamebooks; four of them so far. They look pretty good. (Aimed at ages 9+ so might be too easy, but still, I'm glad they exist.)

https://usborne.com/gb/books/series/adventure-gamebooks
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 17 July, 2023, 08:16:33 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 July, 2023, 01:49:02 PMSlaves of the Abyss is a brilliant book! Looking forward to your full write-up, if you do one.

Also I've just discovered that Usborne has started a line of new gamebooks; four of them so far. They look pretty good. (Aimed at ages 9+ so might be too easy, but still, I'm glad they exist.)

https://usborne.com/gb/books/series/adventure-gamebooks


Played one of these, Shadow Chaser, it was good fun. Fast paced and with some more child-friendly puzzles here and there using illustrations, but it was an intriguing adventure and it didn't feel too simplistic or childish in the writing. Maybe slightly younger than FF, sure, but I wouldn't say the choices you have to make are obvious or anything. I still got killed so will need another go at some point! I have a second one, Curse Breaker, waiting for a first play through too.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 July, 2023, 04:19:00 PM
Here's my Slaves of the Abyss playthrough! As Richard fancied it...

Covered the background in the last post, so straight into it. I'm an adventurer of some renown, who has answered the call put out by Lady Carolina of Kallamehr. Said state is in a grim way: with the armies of nearby  of Bei-Han massing on the border for invasion, Kallemehr's forces have been sent to defend the mountain route into the country leaving bandits and the like to run riot. I am summoned by name by Lady Carolina, and arrive at the palace to find she has assembled almost a dozen mercenaries and adventurers including myself.
Carolina explains that her champion, the awesomely named Ramedes the Invincible, is on a quest for a relic to aid the beleaguered realm, hence she and her council have summoned us. A second invading army has crossed the border - this one believed to be barbarian raiders from Kulak Isle - and there are reports of towns and villages found empty, all souls vanished. Carolina needs a volunteer to head north and summon back half her forces from the border, a second to go east and scout the new invaders, and the remainder to stay and assist the city defences. At present her council consists of her fat cousin Madhaerios; Dunyazad, the wealthiest woman in the state; the sage Sige the Silent and the serious Albudur (this stuff is important for later)

I volunteer to go East. At a pre-scouting feast, a page slips me a note stating I am being watched 'by a hundred eyes' - could treachery be afoot in the palace? Madhaerios tells me I should take no action but scout and return, whilst Dunyazad is trying to map out my route. Finally, Sige visits me and has her servant, a hooded and deformed fellow, pass me a magical pomander of rare herbs that will remove my need for sleep.
I head off and ride all day. At night, I have no need of sleep, true to Sige's promise, but my horse does, totally negating any point to having it! As I'm lying about a bunch of dark elves try to mug me, so I pretend to be asleep before ambushing them and cutting them down. They have a golden statuette on them in the shape of a fist, which is now mine. I am an adventurer working out of charity, after all..
I ride the whole of the next day, passing through several villages where I am received in an unfriendly, almost hostile manner by the villagers. I decide to stop at the Temple of Fourga, as per Dunyazad's advice, but when I do the monks accuse me of being a villain who has returned to the scene of the crime - obviously I deny this and when asked, I empty my backpack to reveal their stolen golden statuette. It's off to prison for me, where luckily I don't languish long before I am released - apparently Dunyazad has intervened.
I'm now given the option of going cross country or sticking to the roads. Dunyazad told me to stick to the roads, but she also told me to stop at this temple where I was blatantly set up... although she did also secure my release. However, I'm also on a timer, and am worried I have lost too much time, so I go with the road route. A few hours in I pass a panicked oxen, and not long after I find a crashed cart with the corpse of a second ox still attached with something horrible feeding on it: a hooded, inhuman monster. Upon seeing me it runs off with a peircing shriek. I check the cart, finding the ox has been partly digested by some kind of acid... and worse, a wax mask that turns out to be an exact copy of my own face. What is happening?
That evening I stop at a village, where the villagers seem to think I'm some kind of savior and lock me in a hut. Bizarrely I am rescued by none other than the Riddling Reaver in his airship. It's a weird little interlude, especially as it has nothing to do with the rest of the book - worldbuilding or shoehorning a pet character? Anyway, I'm back on track, and to boot the RR gives me a fish-shaped bottle that he says contains a stolen sense of humour. "You'll be needing this!" he says before zipping off.
Next morning, I ride on (RR has also rescued my horse) and find the atmosphere growing humid and the air beginning to smell fetid and rotten. I arrive at a village only to find it mysteriously deserted. At the local herbalists hut there's a note written to someone suggesting 'they stay hidden until danger has passed' and instructing the reader to go their parents village when safe.
Further searching turns up a sticky green footprint in front of a cupboard. Putting two and two together with the note, I open it gently and so don't get a blowpipe dart in the face from the small girl hiding within. Her name is Mema and she is covered in green sticky goo. She reveals she is the apprentice of the enchanter Enthymesis, who performed a troubling divination a few days back that led him to go and seek guidance from Aletheia the sage in the twisting forest. Before he left he applied the green goo to her for protection and told her to stay hidden. Sure enough a terrible din soon came upon the village, and the air was filled with the shrieks of the townsfolk before silence. All have vanished..
Being the good sort I am, I decide to backtrack and drop Mema (still covered in gunk) off at her parents. En route the foul stench in the air grows stronger and my horse shies in terror. Off to the left I can see a huge army approaching - and this army is truly huge, covering the hills like ants, far bigger than the forces of Kallamehr. As i try to get closer for a look I see that the air above the army is covered by what at first seems to be thick mist but is soon revealed to be huge hornets. I've no choice but to flee this unnatural army in terror. Luckily for me the green goo Mema is covered in is enough to keep the buzzing horror away and I outpace them easily and reach her village where I drop her off and tell them to evacuate and at speed.
I've now got the choice of scouting the army further, going to look for Enthymesis, or going back to Kallamehr to warn them. This is a tough choice as all three seem very sensible. I choose the latter as I feel the others can be done later, but the city is in real danger here. I push my horse to the very limits, but eventually need to stop at the town of Kamadan to give it a rest. I too, am in need of a rest - my body is in agony from not sleeping for several days and the pomander is starting to feel like hindrance rather than help. I figure I'm here for the night anyway, take the pomander off and immediately fall asleep... only to wake up to find my room on fire! Gagging on smoke I stumble to the window and open it and recoil in horror, seeing a hooded figure hovering outside it. A thick buzzing sound fills the air, and the fire reflects off hundreds of eyes beneath the hood. It sweeps upwards and I scramble out the window to escape the flames. Feeling a presence above me I look up, I hear a high-pitched scream that turns into a gurgle as something vomits a load of acid into my face, killing me instantly, horribly and painfully.

I feel I'm on the right track here, but on resetting, I look at the other options. Staying to defend the city is (as expected) an auto-death so I try going north to find the army. This time I'm not given the pomander or the mysterious note. I'm riding north when I find a body, that turns out to be Sophia of Blacksand, one of the other heroes (and a friend of mine) who'd been dispatched on my previous mission to scout the enemy army. She's been partly dissolved by acid...
I'm starting to get a picture of what's happening now. This is obviously the wrong route, so I ditch this playthrough, restart, and follow my first playthrough all the way back to the burning inn. This time I do NOT look up but when my assailant is above me but throw myself from the window, getting badly acid burned in the process, as the cowled creature flies off.

As the inn burns down I'm found in the crowd by another old friend of mine: the blademaster Bartolo, now retired and sporting a wooden leg. He offers to teach me the 'spitting fly' (an ominous name, considering) technique - a lethal move for throwing a sword, although a desperate move as it would leave me disarmed. Bartolo also gives me a buckler for extra Skill in a fight. Yes! This has been a useful, if highly contrived, meeting.
After this it's more hard riding until I reach Kallamehr. I'm denied entrance to the palace and when I protest, saying Lady Carolina herself needs to hear my warning, she inform me that she is DEAD. This is a disaster. I bribe my way in, where I'm greeted by Dunyazad, flanked by bodyguards and another of the heroes Carolina summoned - Luthaur, a shifty looking type. I tell my story only to have it immediately contradicted by Luthaur who says he has been scouting East too, saw no army, and the empty villages were just due to villagers running away! We bicker and Dunyazad says she is too busy organising the funeral to waste time on us, breezing out and saying she will divine which of us is correct. Fuming, I am sent off to a sparse room for the night, but sleeps eludes me - which is a good thing, as I hear a faint, familiar buzzing sound from outside! Leaping to the window I spot a dark shadow rising up and flying away from the keep. If it wasn't before, it's obvious to me now that there is a traitor here. Carolina has been murdered and this flying, insectoid horror has been out and about sabotaging things - it killed Sophie, and, I suspect, is what set me up at the temple by wearing a mask of my face as well as trying to kill me off in Kamadan. Determined to investigate, I slip out into the night...

Will have to finish this one tomorrow. This book is GREAT.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 21 July, 2023, 01:48:05 AM
Great write-up! I'm looking forward to the rest of it.

You definitely made the right choice after dropping off Mema, by the way. I remember reading some online reviews where nobody thought to go back to the city (even though Madhaerios specifically tells you to do this); the other options lead to death!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2023, 12:36:48 PM
Cheers dude!

That post-Mema rescue decision is a good example of one of the things I really liked about this book - it rewards thinking about the choices you make. I feel like in a lot of FF books riding back at this point would kill the reader but thinking about what's best in the situation - plus the fact that right at the start you were told this was your mission, as you say - is what led me down that path and to (eventual) success!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 21 July, 2023, 02:36:23 PM
Slaves of the Abyss Part 2 (of 3)

Acquiring some rope and stealing stealthily across the roof of the palace keep, I'm able to rappel down each of the four walls and spy into the windows. The first window shows Madhaerios having a midnight snack: he seems frightened, hiding under his bed and jumping at slight sounds. Through the second I spy Dunyazad who seems to be packing clothing and jewelry into a trunk. Suspicious... the third window I spy into I see Sige meditating, and pushing small tokens across a map of Kallemher as she does so. Before I can check out window number four a patrolling guard appears. I'm given the option of hiding or, if I have a bow (I don't) shooting the poor chap but it seems to me he's only doing his job so I drop down the rope into the courtyard and am about to make a dash for my room when I hear the sound of a bolt being drawn back from across the gardens and sink into a shadowy corner. I'm unable to see who enters the courtyard, but I can identify the voice of one of the men as they pass - that of Luthaur, who embarrassed me in front of Dunyazad. They're talking about Ramedes, Carolina's champion, and how he 'fought like a dozen men' but 'the other will be much easier'. That's enough to cement Luthaur as a bad guy for me.. and also to pretty certain that another attempt on my life is about to be made. I slip into the doorway they just exited and follow the twisting passage down to the palace dungeons. The cells are empty, but in the floor in the centre of the room is set a vast oubliette, and as I get closer I can see a man hanging from the grill, whilst below him sinister sucking and slithering noises come from the darkness below.
I rush to open the trapdoor, identifying the hanging figure as I do so as Ramedes, but as he's painfully inching towards me across the grill someone comes up behind me and punts me into the cell below instead. I land with a bump next to the thing in the pit - a Quagrant, some kind of huge shoggoth-like lump of flesh, all eyeballs and mouth. I need to act quickly, and don't fancy disarming myself with the spitting fly move so instead I whip out Mema's blowpipe (I'd forgotten I had this) and blast a load of poisonous dust into the things biggest eyeball. It recoils and I'm into it with my sword, chopping the horrible thing into greasy chunks (this is only the second fight of my playthrough!)
With that thing dealt with I turn my attention to above where the jailer stands in shock. I figure now it's time for the spitting fly - I hurl my sword up, through the grill and impale him, dropping him onto the bars where Ramedes is able to grab hold of his keys and before long the two of us are out of the pit.
Ramedes reveals he had returned from his quest only to be drugged, beaten and hurled into the dungeon. He's keen to go deliver the artifact he found to Lady Carolina, and when I break it to him that she is dead he flies into a rage. "I must have revenge immediately!" he roars and rushes off, stopping only to pass a pouch containing the artifact (that he'd carefully hidden) to me for safety. Obviously this is my time to leave but caught up in the moment I rush to aid him and we cut our way through the palace guards only to be brought down and killed by a volley of crossbow bolts. Oops!
Appalled at my stupidity I rewind to when Ramedes gives me the pouch and steal away as he goes on his suicide run. The pouch he gave me contains a locket of some description set with blue stones, but I'm unsure of its purpose.

The next morning is the funeral of Lady Carolina. Madhaerios, Dunyazad, Sige and Albudur take their places on a platform for a public display of mourning before the body as the commoners gather to pay their respects, tearful and wailing. As I approach the open coffin I note the villainous Luthaur amongst the bodyguards of the nobles. It is time to act! I leap onto the platform and cry out to all to listen to me. "Assassin!" cries Luthaur as he moves to block me, sword drawn.
I must fight Luthaur. His skill is lower than mine, but when he draws blood I discover his blade is poisoned and I collapse and die with a curse on my lips. This is a very tricky fight - he's got 17 stamina so I need 9 hits on him without losing one round of battle. I die three times here in total and am beginning to think this bit sucks when I roll double six, remembering the auto-kill rule for this book, and run the villain through.
As Luthaur sinks to the ground dying, I call out to all concerned that there is a traitor within the palace and detail their treachery. A direct accusation against the four nobles is too dangerous, but had previously known of a folk tale that, should a murderer kiss their victim upon the lips, their skin will blacken and therefore I must insist that one of them undertake this mark of respect - but who? I suspect I've got one chance at this.
Madhaerios seems beyond reproach: he's the DeFacto ruler now but doesn't give the impression of being anything other than a bit useless. It's got to come down to Dunyazad or Sige. The former was seen with Luthaur, is preparing to do a runner, and told me to visit the temple where I was detained. The latter gave me the pomander, a dubious gift - but her meditation last night seemed suspicious and, more importantly, it was she that has a sinister hooded servant. I know that the insect assassin was in the palace at the start of the book due to the note I got at the feast... I think it's her.
I ask Sige to pay her respects. She slowly approaches the body, then hesitates and cries out that she doesn't need to do what a lying upstart says. The crowds against her though as she has no choice. She bends to kiss the body - then whips around and attacks me with Carolina's sword of state. She gets the drop on me with a vicious cut but is no match for my swordsmanship.
Sige drops to the floor, slain, and as she does so the air is filled with a deep rumbling. To the horror of all a tendril of thick black smoke emerges from her corpse, taking on the rough shape of Sige herself, and flies at me. I fling up a hand to ward her off and feel a terrible pain. As the smoke disperses and the pain eases to a dull ache I see I am afflicted with the wound that changes colour, my hand shrouded in a soft light that shifts from green to yellow to orange to red.
The nobles, shocked, look to me for leadership. I quickly establish that the other heroes are all dead, mysteriously slain or vanished. Sige and Luthaur are dead, but the city remains in dire straits with the army approaching, so after some instruction I'm heading off again, this time to finally look for Enthymesis.

I head north into the mountains and eventually find myself at the edge of a vast forest - one that seemingly appeared out of the desert plain by magic. In I go.
This is where the book temporarily broke down for me. I'm given some left / right choices, have a couple of encounters (including one with some comedy ogres and goblins that leaves me perilously low on stamina and gorging my provisions) and eventually move onto a twisting network of pathways. Each path I take resulted in my losing a point of stamina, and once I began noticing the same paragraph numbers cropping up I mapped things out and discovered that I was caught in an inescapable loop, destined to move around the forest until my stamina ran dry. This was a frustrating and unwelcome death.
Figuring I must have missed something I retracted my steps from the beginning and was appalled with myself when I discovered that when rescuing Mema, not only did Enthymesis's note warn Mema against entering 'the shifting forest' but also said that if she did, she should 'follow the brush bearers gloves' or be lost forever. I had made no note of that, but I DO remember the forest description mentioning foxgloves. Skipping myself forward each paragraph in the forest does mention foxgloves - quite subtly, within other description. It's a very subtle little trap / solution.

ANYWAY - taking the right route through the forest leads me to a clearing where lies a crude mud hut standing on spindly legs. I waste some time scouting around (my time track is still ticking away) and eventually get myself inside to discover a single room, empty but for an aged woman in a rough shift. Her hands are raised and above them is a shimmering vision of a void containing a wall of cells fall of disheveled, panicked people - the same as the cover of the book, in fact. The woman reveals these are souls, trapped in the abyss, and challenges me to name her. I don't think she's Enthymesis - who was it he was seeking? I flick back to the paragraph and correctly name her as Aletheia.
Aletheia smiles - I am correct. She introduces me to her familiar, Caduceus, a large snake, and compliments his wisdom. The souls, she says, are in thrall to one named Bythos, who must be stopped if they are to be saved - Enthymesis, she says, has gone on ahead to attempt this and I should follow. The key to this awfulness is the black hornets that follow Bythos's army, for they are cursed creatures whose sting steals souls and imprisons them in his domain, leaving the body a mere shell to be puppeted by Bythos.. meaning the invading army is none other than the soulless bodies of the vanished people of Kallamehr themselves. This is such a novel - and horrible - concept. Aletheia also notes that I still carry Sige's pomander and tells me it is a powerful talisman - the herbs within, eaten in the abyss, will protect me from 'the masters crystal breath'.
To reach Bythos I must pass the soul-stealing hornets: a seemingly impossible task. Aletheia says I can kill them with the scent of burning Jheera leaves. Luckily a Jheera tree grows in the forest - unluckily, it appears to have been uprooted. In my wanderings earlier I spotted a troll with an uprooted tree, so I'm off to find him. Aletheia tells me she will allow the forest to let me pass, but I should never return as I will not find her welcoming a second time.
I find the troll trying to dig up a burrow of some sort with the tree, but failing. As he seems relatively benign I suggest he removes the leaves from the tree to make it a more efficient tool. I'm stuffing the leaves into my pockets and chuckling at my cleverness when the troll finally digs up some kind of porcupine, tries to eat it and blames me for the ensuing mouth pain. Combat ensues.
With the troll now an ex-troll I am able to leave the forest and soon am in sight of the invading army again. It engulfs the plains below, its numbers swelling with every town and village it comes across. Atop the multitude I can see palanquin, held aloft by the people, and swarming above it the thick cloud of hornets.
I light my Jheera-leaf torch and ride down towards the army but the wind is against me and pushes the smoke away. Panicked, I hide in a cave and as the hornets attempt to swarm in after me they choke and die on the smoke until the cave floor is choked with their bodies.
Now safe, I approach the army, trying to keep a brave face. The blank eyed hordes of the soulless part before me as I approach the palanquin and from it steps an imposing man, unsmiling, dressed in rich robes and deeply scarred across the face. He begins threatening me for killing the hornets, but as he does I uncork the bottle the riddling reaver gave me all that time ago and he dissolves into helpless laughter. Quick as a flash I use the spitting fly technique to hurl my sword into his chest. Bythos is dead! But wait! As with Sige before him, a thick smoke rises from his corpse, twisting about until it takes on his form. "I am Bythos, Lord of the Abyss" he monologues, boasting that although I have slain his earthly form he will be back - and he still holds the souls of the people of Kallemehr in thrall. He vanishes, leaving me standing dejected, surrounded by the unmoving husks that were once the citizens of my country.

Still more to come on this one! It's a huuuuuge writeup - there's so much happening in this adventure! If you read all this, I salute you!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 21 July, 2023, 05:06:03 PM
Got to applaud your efforts with these write ups!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Trooper McFad on 21 July, 2023, 05:26:50 PM
Boots as I've told you before I'm not a "games book" player but these write ups are peeking my interest and your descriptions bring the game play to life. You might eventually get me to try one 😳.

(Not to put pressure on but I hope you are thinking of a good one for the later in the year 🎅🏻)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 July, 2023, 01:00:24 PM
Thank you both. There's a good story in this one but I can't help but feel the writeup is possibly a bit on the long side..! The next one may be shorter!

Quote from: Trooper McFad on 21 July, 2023, 05:26:50 PM(Not to put pressure on but I hope you are thinking of a good one for the later in the year 🎅🏻)

Erk! Early pressure!  ;)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Trooper McFad on 22 July, 2023, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 July, 2023, 01:00:24 PMThank you both. There's a good story in this one but I can't help but feel the writeup is possibly a bit on the long side..! The next one may be shorter!

Quote from: Trooper McFad on 21 July, 2023, 05:26:50 PM(Not to put pressure on but I hope you are thinking of a good one for the later in the year 🎅🏻)

Erk! Early pressure!  ;)

I have one in the bag already 😁
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 July, 2023, 11:23:35 AM
Slaves of the Abyss Part 3

So: I've foiled Bythos' attempt to destroy Kallamehr, but it's a real pyrrhic victory as half the country has been reduced to soulless husks. As I'm looking to sadly ride away into the sunset up pops Caduceus, the snake I met at Aletheia's hut, who tells me that I should follow Bythos to the abyss itself and defeat him if I'm to free these souls, as poor old Enthymesis has failed. He directs me to a river that flows into a cave where there's a portal to the abyss.... ok yeah. It's a bit of a stretch but stakes are high so lets do this! I cobble together a makeshift raft and soon I'm following a river that flows into a mountain and eventually wind up at a rocky beach, lit by a guttering torch, with a passage leading deep into the underworld.
I follow the tunnel, passing through some illusionary flames and briefly aiding some silver-skinned humanoids against some frog-creatures, before winding up in a large chamber. Here, horribly, I find a lump of green slime in which a human face is embedded. This is all that remains of Enthymesis - he croaks a warning with what little life he has left and warns me to avoid the sand in the middle of the room for it leads to the abyss, and to flee as something terrible is coming. I want to go to the abyss, and I certainly don't fancy meeting whatever has melted Enthymesis, so I head to the sand and as soon as I reach it I'm dragged down beneath it. The pressure is tremendous and just as I think I'm dead again I burst into a strange outer-space like domain and am sent hurtling downwards at speed until I black out and awaken in a cold chamber full of thick mists, resting on a vast pile of magical treasures.

Things get strange. I immediately eat the herbs from the pomander, as instructed. Poking about reveals a number of unusual magical items (including the golden fist from the temple earlier!) but nothing obviously of use. I'm about to head off when a silvery shape shoots past me, crashes into the floor, shatters and reforms into a strange limbless, beaked and winged reptile, translucent and pulsing with energy. It flounders about until it finds a silver chalice which it eats and then flaps off, the chalice fully visible through its skin. I follow the thing onto a plain of crystal but lose it in the mist. I decide to follow a sound of moaning - as I'm looking for trapped souls - and come across a huge chain, embedded in the floor and reaching up into the clouds where the moaning originates. Climbing the chain brings me to a starry void where hangs an impossible wall of bars, suspended in space, behind which are indeed the trapped souls of the folk of Kallamehr, all miserable and emaciated looking. I cannot free them, so I descend the chain and cast about for help. A little further on I come across some huge crystals jutting up from the floor, each containing a mummified human form, their faces contorted in agony. In the final one I can make out the features of none other than Sige, who whispers to me for freedom - she has been betrayed by Bythos and left here to die after she mucked up killing me, but I turn a  deaf ear to her plea.
After a skirmish with some kind of oily otherworld predator I discover a bowl shaped depression ahead, strange reptiles soaring above it and glowing sand at its centre. Electing to stay and observe, I witness several of the flying creatures drop into the bowl and deposit magical treasures before flying away. Then, after a lull, six warriors of crystal (art shows them looking the ones from Snow Witch, and Midnight Rogue, which is cool) arrive, form a circle and with mechanical precision proceed to pound the treasures into glowing dust before marching away again.
After they depart another figure emerges, this one cowled and feeble-looking, chanting a strange song about broth for Bythos - broth for the master - magical broth to rule the abyss. He was carried here in a crystal chariot before hobbling down to the bowl to gather up the dust within. I lurk at the edge of the bowl and when he emerges, leap out and mercilessly cut him down. Then disguising himself in his robes I climb aboard the chariot, and it whisks me away through the stars to a gigantic palace, also formed of crystal. Within another robed figure hurries me into a chamber where rests a vast goblet over three feet high. I do as indicated and pour the magical dust into the liquid within. The other robed figures leave, so bearing in mind the chant I just heard, I take a chance and drink the liquid.

The broth is foul, but before I can worry about it a door opens and in strides Bythos - fully restored and now 50 feet tall. Muttering about my lateness he seizes the goblet and drinks deeply, then reels in shock as I buckle in pain, crying out as the power of the broth flows through me. I begin to grow hugely, ripping through the robe until I too stand 50 feet in height and facing the horrified Bythos. Who has the power now, eh? He hurls a blast of freezing ice at me, but the herbs I have eaten protect me and the ice burns away on my skin. With a howl, Bythos smashes through the wall and leaps away and flees across the plains with me in hot pursuit. Eventually we stops by the chain and we battle it out hand to hand in some kind of Kong vs Godzilla kaiju style fight until he eventually falls, shattering into a million fragments on the ground.

Seizing the chain I haul upon it, bringing the floating cell to the ground, and then split apart its bars freeing the wretched occupants, thousands of them, before leading them back to the palace. At the palace gates I am greeted by robed servants proclaiming me ruler of the abyss. Now I am ruler, I demand to know how to travel back to the earthly plain: Bythos, it seems, used a magical ritual to do so but not enough of the reagents remain for all to return: it can be me, or the citizens of Kallamehr. There is no real choice here. I allow the souls of the people to return to Kallamehr and I must remain trapped in the abyss forever, alone.
Using the powers now available to me I scry upon Kallamehr and am rewarded with the sight of the people, happy and prosperous under their new ruler, the kindly Madhaerios. Caduceus is also here and offers me his wisdom. Together, the two of us can unlock the mysteries of the universe, and embark upon adventures undreamed.

I read that Paul Mason originally intended the ending to be one of sacrifice - killing Bythos traps you in the abyss forever (the happy ending being Madhaerios being the new ruler - the bad ending being Sige in control, something she presumably planned for, as otherwise why give you the pomander?) - but the bit about becoming all godlike and having future adventures was tacked on to make things happier. This I assume is the 'best' ending but there's a couple of others: you can return to an empty Kallamehr, leaving the citizens souls wandering in the abyss forever, or if you free everybody but didn't expose Sige then she ends up ruler so your victory isn't really complete. It's not explicitly stated, but I'm guessing this is why she gives you the pomander as she's hoping you'll kill Bythos.

Anyway, that's it! Totally recommend this one.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 July, 2023, 10:51:56 PM
It certainly is a brilliant book! Thanks for reminding me how good it is with your detailed reviews, they were fun to read. I think I'll take another look at it this weekend.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 July, 2023, 11:19:27 AM
Awesome, I hope you get a chance and enjoy it as much as I did. Glad you enjoyed my writeups too.

My wife was away this weekend so I had a chance to tackle the next book in the series already: Sky Lord

Now I said I was looking to do a shorter write-up for the next book - but this one isn't getting one at all, just a bit old critique.

Sky Lord is absolutely terrible. It has the two worst things a FF book can have - combats are numerous and very very difficult, and the choices you make are nonsensical. It reminds me a lot of the adventure I wrote for the 2022 advent calendar which was trying to be funny, with intentionally daft choices that often didn't really make much sense. I think that kind of thing is forgivable in a 45-paragraph joke thing for an online forum, but not for a published FF book.

The writing is sort of semi-jokey, with a lot of silly concepts, but the book isn't a full-on farce so it all the stupid names and accents and things feel out of place. It's also written in quite a perfunctory manner in places - after a multiple-paragraph chase segment with a man-eating blob throughout an abandoned ship, there's a test of sorts where various random uninformed choices you've made potentially weaken it, and the next paragraph is just 'you overpower the blob'. Weak stuff!
The book uses a lot of vehicle combat, which is way harder than the normal combat, and there's a special space battle near the start where you have to constantly change your pitch, roll and yaw without explaining what these are (I had to look them up on the internet) or get blown up. That battle has no bearing on the main plot either, so it feels like an exercise in using up paragraphs. There's another one later where you just get given a choice of 'funny' buttons to push in a ship battle with no rhyme or reason and you basically win or lose at random.
That sort of writing permeates the book and masses of the choices are seemingly based on chance. Square door or circle door? Blue soup or green soup? Stop mid-blob-chase to play snooker or play basketball? There's rarely any logic or intelligence on the choices and you could probably play the book just by flipping a coin for a good chunk of it.

The art is by Tim Sell, who did House of Hell, and seemed of a poor standard throughout. I didn't especially like his art there, but it did have some atmiosphere about it. Here it definitely doesn't do anything for me at all.

Playing through this one felt like a waste of time tbh. The fate of the main villain contains a nice twist although the book descends into contrived stupidity again immediately afterwards. But that's the best thing I can say about this really. It's probably the worst FF book I have read, worse than the mess that was BotZ, the tedious Starship Traveller or the uber-difficult Chasms of Malice, and I believe it's the last Sci-fi book in the series and I can see why. If this had been my first book instead of Forest of Doom I'd never have played another.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 25 July, 2023, 02:22:10 PM
When I was a kid I had maybe eight or ten FF books and I was often drawn to the SF ones, more's the pity. Starship Traveller, Rebel Planet, Sky Lord, when I could have been exploring Port Borgos or meeting Yaz-Tromo  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 29 July, 2023, 06:15:28 PM
FF34: STEALER OF SOULS

This was one of my favourite gamebooks when I was a teenager, yet I have never replayed it, so I was excited to find out whether it would still hold up today. It looks very promising: it is written by Keith Martin, who wrote one of my other favourite books, Master of Chaos (which I revisited a few years ago so I know it's still good), and the interior art is by my favourite FF artist, Russ Nicholson, whose private commission hangs on my wall. There are some truly spectacular illustrations in this book, which must rank as one of his best books in the series. This is all topped off by a brilliant cover by David Gallagher, and a colour map by Leo Hartas on the inside cover.

Having finished it last night, I can say that it is a competently written dungeon crawl, no more. I can't see what made me so enthusiastic about it that compelled me in 2003 to write on an FF-nostalgia website that this was my favourite gamebook. It's alright, and it shows some early promise by the writer, but it is let down by too many arbitrary "east or west"-type choices. The art is the only thing that really makes it stand out.

The introduction establishes that I am a veteran adventurer of great renown, and that I have been hired for a top secret mission by someone who spares no expense in paying for my transport to his city from far away, with luxury accommodation along the route, which makes it all the more puzzling that I begin the adventure with absolutely no money at all, but never mind. He tells me that a dastardly archmage called Mordraneth is plotting to take over the world, but my mission is not to go after him but just to sail to the Isle of Despair to rescue his prisoner, the wizard Alsander. Some other wizards and warriors are going after Mordraneth instead. I'm disappointed to be sent on a side-quest, but off I go to the island in a ship, earning the respect of the crew when I fight an oversized Stormbird that attacks us on the way. (I don't want to have to start over just because I lose a fight or a dice roll, so I have cheated and maxed out my stats.)

Arriving at the Isle of Despair, there isn't a harbour or beach big enough for the ship to land at, so I disembark in a dinghy on my own, where I fend off a hungry giant Skull Crab by throwing some of my provisions into the sea. On land, I am met by a friendly giant; the crab was his pet, so my not killing her means that I don't have to fight him. He gives me enough food for three meals, and also a scroll on which is written an obscure but ominous warning about "the Stealer of Souls," which reminds me of this Family Guy sketch:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F8mYLi3PGOc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F8mYLi3PGOc)

Taking my leave, I then lose two of my newly-acquired meals by walking around in the rain and getting soaked, so I'm now back to the same amount of provisions I started with. Oh well. I then have the option of heading north to some hills or west along a well-used track (at least there is some information about the choices here). I choose west (but after later reading the alternative, I should have gone north). At a crossroads I go south and meet some friendly natives, who want to trade with me but I have no money and nothing to barter with (if I'd gone north earlier I could have picked up enough gold and treasure to buy some useful stuff). This is a bit concerning, because I don't know if any of the items I have missed out on getting are going to be indispensable later on; I'll just have to wait and see I suppose.  :(

After an uncomfortable night's sleep, during which I lose two stamina points (the best accommodation is reserved for people who have something to trade), in the morning the shaman warns me not to head north at the crossroads I came from, so I return there and head west. After a while I see a building in the distance, so I leave the trail and head cross-country to the building, arriving at sunset. Inside there is a prisoner in chains, and my options are to attack him (really?), help him or wait and see what happens. Being a little suspicious, I elect to wait, and it turns out the prisoner is an illusion: he is really a Dark Priest and he attacks me for a loss of six stamina points. I easily kill him though, and spend the night in the building. Successfully testing my luck means that I don't have nightmares, and I get two stamina points back for a good night's rest.

In the morning I find a trapdoor and go down it into a tunnel. Another lucky roll of the dice means that I avoid a rather unfair auto-death paragraph involving being absorbed by some living rock creature in the walls, and I arrive at the gated entrance to Mordaneth's Iron Crypt. I don't have whatever article I needed to get in, so I bend the iron bars by rolling higher than my skill score on 2 dice plus 3. Inside, the corridor appears to end in a wall, but this is just an illusion -- the first of many in the rest of this adventure, because Mordraneth is an expert illusionist. Gong through a concealed door, I surprise two goblins and kill them. I am then offered a choice of three doors by which I can leave the room: north, south or west.

What follows is the weakest part of the book, so I won't describe it step-by-step, but just give an overview. There are lots of N,S,E,W choices to make, and lots of locked doors where the book keeps asking me if I have an ebony key, which I could have bought from the villagers but couldn't afford, which is quite annoying. Encounters include a living stone statue of a minotaur (there's a beautiful picture of him), some orcs, more dark priests, a knight (I take his chain mail, which restores a skill point I had lost earlier), and a weird flying monster. On my travels I also pick up a crowbar, which means that when I am next asked if I have the ebony key I can just prise open a door instead, and in that room I collect a bronze ring and a platinum amulet, which are both handy later on. But overall, this section of the book leaves a bad impression, until I get to the end of it, where there is a good bit.

I eventually come to a torture chamber, where I make conversation with the torturer (an ogre), who tells me he has been interrogating a wizard -- it must be Alsander! He hasn't been talking, so Mordraneth has run out of patience with him and has ordered his execution -- I have only just got here in time! I kill the torturer, rescue the wizard, and -- plot twist! -- he tells me Mordraneth isn't where my employer thinks he is, he's right here on the island, and only I can stop him. (That so-called twist should have been very obvious really, but I still remember how exciting it was for me when I first read it in *checks copyright page* 1988, so I'll allow it.)

Alsander also teaches me some spells. I'm allowed to choose three from a list of seven, and I can only use each spell once, except for Dispel Illusion -- because I have the platinum amulet, I can cast that one twice. I choose Dispel Illusion, because I've been told that Mordraneth is a master of illusions. I also choose Dispel Fear, and Restore Luck because I'm already down to 7 luck points. (The other options were Fire Globe, Healing, Restore Skill, and Speed.)

The wizard then teleports home, leaving me on my own to find Mordraneth. Moving on, I kill two Dark Elves who are guarding a magic portal to Mordraneth's inner lair, his "Empire of Illusion." I enter the portal...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 July, 2023, 12:02:05 PM
This is excellent! Really enjoyed reading it and glad that I'm not the only one writing these!
Look forward to seeing what's next..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 31 July, 2023, 08:26:30 PM
Thank you! I'm enjoying re-visiting this series.

Stealer of Souls, part 2

The final phase of this book is a bit like the Maze of Zagor at the end of The Warlock of Firetop Mountain, but much better. It is a maze without the complexity of the original (with its interminably dull paragraphs that do nothing but ask if you want to continue down the passage you're in or go back the way you came). There are no compass-point choices of direction here; instead, you are given a choice between two or three differently-coloured passages, and they are not all completely random: each colour is sometimes a hint at what to expect in each passage. For example, the red passage leads to immense heat (not actual flames but almost as bad), black leads to pitch darkness and then a spectre, and so on (although not all of these are helpful -- I didn't get any clue from ochre, for example). More importantly, each passage contains a monster or a trap, instead of wandering around in Zagor's empty corridors that make up half the book but only have about three encounters in them. Mordraneth's maze is colourful both literally and figuratively!

It's my favourite part of the book, as the action comes thick and fast, and there is a sense of Mordraneth watching your progress, with occasional paragraphs where you hear his voice gloating about your impending doom. This adds a sense of danger. There are also several encounters where you can't be sure if you are dealing with an illusion or not, and I wasted my second Dispel Illusion spell on something that turned out to be real.

My first corridor is the red one, with the great heat, but the bronze ring I picked up earlier magically protects me from that. This leads to an orange tunnel where I am attacked by an eagle; I am told that it is only an illusion, but the illusion is still so real that I am obliged to fight it as it can wound me. The next choice is black or green. I was already offered black earlier, but not green, so I suspect that green might mean progress and opt for that. This tunnel gradually turns into a blue colour, and then I nearly drown in water. After that I use up one of my Dispel Illusion spells to get rid of some nippy rats, and next I encounter some guy who wants to touch my head in blessing. I don't trust him so I don't let him, and leave down a passage I haven't been offered before. The walls of this passage begin to quickly close in on me, and I didn't choose the Speed spell, but I do have the crowbar I used earlier, and I use that to escape. (It's rare in FF to get an item you can use twice!)

In the next location I am attacked by a hideous evil flying "Death Skull", which the book tells me is not an illusion. It has blood dripping from its eyes. There's a cool picture of it. It's so scary that I have to reduce my Skill by one point for the duration of this fight!

The next encounters are an illusory strong wind which threatens to blow me off a precipice, a skeleton warrior with a sword, and a blue dragon that breathes lightning! Mordraneth even has a better class of dragon than Zagor!

I'm attacked by a giant spider, and use my Dispel Fear spell to avoid losing some skill and stamina points, but this is still a tough fight and I am down to 9 Stamina points by the end. I scoff some provisions just in time for my final encounter with Mordraneth himself. I find him above me on a balcony, and he's casting a spell. I am out of spells, so I have to run up one of two staircases to get to him. He throws a fire globe at me, but my magic bronze ring which saved me from the extreme heat earlier works again and reduces the damage. We duel with swords, and he has a Skill of 10, which is (I think) the highest in the book. I win, because I cheated and gave myself a score of 12, but the book is pretty fair overall, as this seems to be the only high skill encounter in the book that you can't avoid, although it would still be a bit unpleasant if you were starting with a Skill of only 7 or 8. (The spectre takes a Skill point away from you permanently each time it wins an attack round, but I didn't meet him on my playthrough.)

The showdown with Mordraneth could have been a little longer and felt like a bit of an anti-climax after all that (this guy was supposedly going to conquer the whole world), but it still feels nice to reach paragraph 400!

This isn't the best FF book, but it is far from being the worst, and it is elevated by Russ Nicholson's superior art. There are some fantastic illustrations:

The statue of a minotaur at paragraph 274
A room full of skeletons, 331
The spectre, 112
The prisoner in chains, 379
The flying Death Skull, 296
A wall carving showing Mordraneth conjuring a spectral spider from the corpse of an elf, 216
The knight in chainmail, 75
The skeleton warrior, 169

Despite its shortcomings, I am still fond of this book.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 August, 2023, 01:14:40 PM
Excellent stuff Richard, thanks for taking the time to write this all out!

It sounds like a fun one. I'm going to give it a couple of weeks for this to fade in the memory a bit, and then tackle it myself. I've skimmed over the art and it's really good, some of Russ Nicholson's best imo (not sure about an image of an evil balloon near the end, but the other ones you flagged up are really great)

The internet tells me Keith Martin was actually Carl Sargent? If so I'm unsurprised this is a good book.

I've been having a crack at Blood Sword but the combat system isn't working for me atm.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 03 August, 2023, 05:06:27 PM
You are the Hero! confirms that Keith Martin is indeed Carl Sargent, and that this is the first of his seven books in the series.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 11 August, 2023, 07:32:42 PM
Does anyone here know if the Fabled Lands books are good?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 14 August, 2023, 10:25:17 AM
I've not read any of the them, but I do rate Jamie Thompson (and Russ Nicholson). Must be worth a look!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 14 August, 2023, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: Richard on 11 August, 2023, 07:32:42 PMDoes anyone here know if the Fabled Lands books are good?

Nope, not familiar with these ones.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AM
Jimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2023, 02:45:16 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AMJimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?

No, I never did!

Sadly, around the same time I fell off the gamebook wagon I went and bought a Nintendo Switch, sealing my own doom. My unfinished quest for the Crown of Kings nags away at me, though. Must make some time to complete it before the year is out...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 August, 2023, 03:29:02 PM
You can get Sorcery on the Nintendo Switch! I tried to get my wife to download and play it but she only likes Animal Crossing.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2023, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AMJimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?

Quote from: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AMJimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?

No, I never did!

Sadly, around the same time I fell off the gamebook wagon I went and bought a Nintendo Switch, sealing my own doom. My unfinished quest for the Crown of Kings nags away at me, though. Must make some time to complete it before the year is out...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 August, 2023, 12:24:32 PM
Wrapped up my playthrough of Stealer of Souls this morning and very much enjoyed it. I won't go into too much detail here as Richard's already done a great job. I found it a very fair book - a lot of the items made things easier, but weren't auto-death if you didn't have them like a Livingstone book. I only died twice on my way to paragraph 400: once on an auto-death paragraph that was, in fairness, signposted and once in the final battle with Mordraneth after losing a lot of my stamina to his spells and then rolling terribly. (I didn't fancy playing the book again at that point, so just restarted the combat)

The dungeon is a bit generic, but its reasonably forgiving with not many traps and whilst I was constantly getting my ass kicked, there were plenty of provisions so I was always able to keep myself topped up foodwise. That last bit, with the illusions, was an interesting twist and the art is fantastic, some brilliant images in this one.

Whilst not outstanding, I thought this was overall a really good gamebook.
Next up for me: Daggers of Darkness.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 August, 2023, 03:15:17 PM
Daggers of Darkness

I approached this book with mild trepidation given it was written by Luke Sharp who did the awful Chasms of Chaos. Mitigating that however, the cover features a warrior with a hawk, an eyepatch and a tiger codpiece surfing on two sabretooth tigers and wielding a spiked mace with two smaller spiked maces attached to it, morning star style. That sounds terrible, but it's actually a pretty good image from the great Les Edwards and the book was surprisingly good also.

There's a lot of background, but in short, the land of Kazan, which is a wild place populated by tribes (I got a sort of nomadic steppe vibe from it) has a weird meritocracy whereby parents are able to nominate their children as Ushun Koja, or The Select, upon which the child is given money and training, then exiled from Kazan and must live of their wits and strength until the current ruler dies. At this point all the Select may re-enter Kazan and attempt to recover the six clan medallions from mazes, before racing to the throne and the first Select to get there becomes the new ruler. This ensures each ruler is strong and clever. The ruler has just died, and you play one of the Select.
It all sounds a bit ridiculous written down, but it's a very unusual and imaginative way to frame the quest. On reading it I thought I'd need to get all six medallions and failure would mean death, but you only need one and I think its only possible to get two.
Finally, to complicate things further the current vizier Chingiz, who has the job on a temp basis since the current ruler died, isn't keen to be supplanted so he has hired assassins to kill off all the Select. This means the book starts with you being stabbed by a poisoned dagger (the 'Dagger of Darkness') and adds a unique element to the book - a poison track, which when topped out kills you. Interestingly it's not time that causes the poison to spread but exertion - which includes combat - so it puts a little spin on how to approach the book.

Anyhow - I started this book with I think my best ever stats roll (max skill / stamina) I also start the book stabbed and poisoned. A wizard named Astragal (it's not explained who this guy is, but he's a helpful wizard) drops me off at the border of Kazan, noting that the poison cannot be cured unless I hand the knife itself back to its maker (Chingiz). Oh, I'll give it back to him alright.
At the border to Kazan there's another Select, stabbed and dying, who warns be about some Mamliks, who appear to be a sort of steppe orc (I assume the name is a play on Mamluk) who stabbed him and rode off to the left before the poison dissolved him and his gear, leaving just a skeleton. Serious stuff! I don't listen to this properly and go left anyway as is my want, where I meet no Mamliks but an old crone in tattered finery who offers to pay me for some help. I'm supposed to be a noble type, so I agree and have to recover her chest of gold from two hellhounds - an easy fight, but one that increases my poison levels. I elect not to steal the gold myself and in return she gives me some cash and some hints about the maze of Uruz where I can find the first medallion. Score!
I head off the way she indicated and whilst stopping for some lunch get captured by a tribe of huntresses who offer me two tests to prove my worth (or die, ofc): 'Run the Arrow' or 'Three Cuts'. I've got great stats so choose the latter and am told I have to chop through three logs before a candle burns through some twine and I get shot with poisoned darts. This cool idea sadly turns out to be a random dice roll rather than a skill test and so I just die. This sucks, so I reroll and pass the test.
My reward is being shut in a hut with another old crone. This one tells me the Huntresses of Owlshriek believe their power stems from inflicting pain so even though I just passed the test I'm due to die anyway.. until she spots some leaves stuck to my hood and declares them to be a magic herb called Treffilli. She takes the herb, casts a spell, makes us both invisible and we can sneak out into the forest. This is probably the weakest bit of the book. The crone leads me to a clearing where an obvious coven of witches is gathered and they give me some more of the invisibility herb. It costs stamina to use, but I never get a chance to use it anyway.

I continue on, find a gem in my boot (??) and flog it at a trading post, fight off some muggers (increasing my poison score), dodge a couple of road encounters with Mamliks and the like and eventually wake one morning surrounded by a group of horsemen. These guys are the Bogomils and they're one of the Kazan tribes hereabouts. I identify myself as one of the Select and they decide to test me. The Bogomil test involves being staked out whilst a wild horse jumps over me a few times and again involves random dice rolling, but this time I'm lucky and pass first time. Impressed, the tribesmen give me a horse and ride with me to the village where I have to do another test: this time taming a wild horse. It's another dice roll test, but I'm able to stay on the horse's back and the Bogomil announce that I'm worthy of entering their maze. It dawns on me at this point that I've missed the Urguz maze entirely...

The maze is a selection of left / right choices. I stick mainly to West and North. There's some cryptic clues written on the walls here, suggesting something about a medallions weight. Midway through I see a woman up ahead crying and am given pause - in theory nobody else should be in here, because its a sacred maze - but I'm also a proud and noble Kazan and don't want to leave someone in pain. Unsurprisingly, it's a Mamlik in disguise, wearing the peeled off face of a lady! Not a tough fight, but poison levels are creeping upwards..
Eventually the maze terminates at an obelisk, decorated with horses, upon which the medallion hangs. A quick look at the obelisk reveals its trapped: small holes around the room will surely shoot darts, arrows or the like at me should I mess up. I'm told I can switch the medallion out for a purse and need to choose how much gold to put in it: thankfully the clues I've picked up in the maze give me the answer to this and one switch later the medallion is mine!
The medallions all have great power: if I lose a fight I can auto-win it, restarting on stamina 4, although it reduces my skill and luck by 1 and increases my poison score by 3. A real hail mary, then for desperate circumstances.

Emerging into the sunlight I'm hailed by the stoic Bogomils and sent on my way. The next morning I get a message from Astragal, conveyed in the form of a small bird, telling me the medallions are all claimed and I should now head for the capital, Sharrabbas, and make my play for the throne. The message is garbled and there's something about going to one person for help and on no account going to another, and I get one name - 'Vetch'. Unhelpful!
Using the map to help me I press towards Sharrabbass, keeping to the main road for ease of travel. Along the way I find the body of another Select, surrounded by slain trolls and orcs, and bearing a bloodied note that mentions 'Wolfsbane' in the street of guilds. Eventually I reach the capital: there are two trolls on the gate demanding bribes, and I don't have enough gold after leaving most of it back in the maze so am drawn into battle. This is a tough fight, and without my high skill would probably have been too much. As it is I'm wolfing down provisions and I (and the other happy residents, no longer being charged toll) make my way into the city over the bodies of the trolls.
The city streets are a lot more uninformed left / right choices as I wander the streets like some gawping bumpkin. At one point, seeing a crowd, I push through and am able to see Chingiz himself, born on a litter and surrounded by goblins, fierce tribesmen and great steppes cats. Someone in the crowd points out both Vetch and Wolfsbane - names I have heard. Vetch is a tough looking fighting man, and Wolfsbane a smith. The crowd seem to think Vetch should take out Chingiz, and I'm given the option of following one of them. I think this is a classic trick here: Vetch looks more useful, but I reckon he is the one Astragal told me not to ask for help: I'm guessing / hoping I'm not the only Select getting help here, and the other guys note saying to go to Wolfsbane was for aid, so I tail him, lose him but eventually wind up on the street of guilds anyway and head into his shop.
Wolfsbane denies knowing what I'm talking about but makes the secret sign of Astragal (its an A, unimaginatively) and writes down on a slate that I should go to the Dragons Wings Tavern. Spies are about! I leave, take a wrong turn and am ambushed by a couple of Chingiz's assassins who jump down on me from giant vultures. Surviving this unsubtle attack, but now low on provisions, I finally make it to the tavern where Wolfsbane is waiting for me with another wizard, Geronicus.

This pair reveal Chingiz has employed necromancers to spellblock the fortress and has by now slain all the other Select. I'm the only person who can beat Chingiz and his devilish (and previously not mentioned) daughter! Geronicus has some magic phials of potion that can get me in, and I have to choose one. I've got no clue which is which, so I pick one at random and when my two friends take me to the fortress wall I drink it and am able to pass through the stone. Hurrah!

I'm drawn to a room with a panel showing the six tribes sacred beasts, which niches for their medallions and a mysterious voice tells me to place the medallion I have in the appropriate spot. I pop my medallion in, and the way ahead opens into a room stuffed with bottles and reagents. This is the chamber of spells where I must pass a test of Gnossis by... randomly mixing ingredients together and drinking the results, twice. I do this and immediately die as I've created poison.
Unimpressed by this Luke Sharp-ism I decide to give myself another shot and this time my tinkering creates two nicer brews: a potion of super luck, and a potion of invulnerability to sword strikes! Feeling deeply chuffed I move on, am ambushed by Mamliks and their swords bounce off. They flee like the dogs they are and I stride proudly deeper into the tower.
The way ahead is blocked by 'dungeon beasts' and there are too many to fight them. I haven; drunk the potion of what I need to pass here, so have to go the other way, fighting four rubbish orcs (and pushing my poison levels higher still) before entering a room containing a scene of carnage: piles of dead Mamliks, orcs, trolls and men scattered about with a laughing wizard amidst it all. This is Zizzadek, the top necromancer, and he duly turns himself into a dragon and butchers me because he has SKILL 11 and tons of Stamina.
But wait! I have the medallion! I use its power and continue on.
But wait part 2! Writing this out, I've just realised I left the medallion in the wall when I used it to enter the inner fortress. At least I assume I did - I wasn't told to cross it off my adventure sheet but.. neither was I told I picked it up again? Which means I've probably cheated to win this playthrough. Erk.

With my last provisions eaten I move on where I'm ambushed by four gremlins - the personal guard of Chingiz. As you can imagine these guys aren't up to much, especially as I'm invulnerable to their swords, but fighting them whacks up my poison score to what is now dangerous levels. After busting down the next door get a cryptic message from the voice telling me the throne, not the sword, holds the kingdom together. Thanks voice. I kick down the next door - a solid gold one at that - and find Chingiz himself, sitting in bed. He congratulates me on getting this far and quick as I can I put the dagger into his hand, ridding myself of the poison and curse. Chingiz chuckles but before he can say more he slumps forward, a knife in his back!
Moving past the body I come upon the Throne of Sharrabass itself. Seated upon it is Meghan-na-Durr, the daughter of Chingiz, and before her are four ogre slaves. Like her father she offers insincere congratulations for my getting this far but denies me the throne - it is hers by right, as it was she that murdered her father - and I am next! She leaps from the throne, knife in hand, but I swat her weak attack aside and she collapses. Cursing me she releases her chained ogres but recalling the words of the Voice I sheathe my sword and instead step up and sit upon the throne - for no sword should be drawn in the shadow of the throne of Kazan. As I sit, the ogres collapse and Meghan herself crumbles to dust with a scream, cursed by the power of the land itself. I am lord of Kazan now, and under my rule the land will flourish. THE END



Surprisingly this book was both a lot of fun, and on the whole very forgiving. There's very, very few crucial items to find: just items that make your life easier, and the book rockets along, never dragging and moving from one encounter to the next. The setting is interesting and different and there's enough lore here to bring it to life: I had fun trying to act like a proud nomad type, and the best choices seemed to reflect that.

The bad side to the book is all that there's a lot of random roll-to-die moments - eg. roll 2 dice and then another two dice and if the first total you rolled is higher, you die - or another part where you roll two dice five times and die if you roll doubles. This is somewhat reminiscent of the one strike combat in CoM, and really sucks. Thankfully here it's spaced out and only happens a few times. The part where you have to mix the potions seemed very random to me, unless there's a clue along the way that I missed. There's also a lot of 'go left or go right' choices that feel a bit like you're blundering around in the dark, but because there's multiple paths through the book its rare that you go the wrong way and lock yourself out of future success.

Art is by Martin McKenna and is wonderful. I always associate his work with a certain era of White Dwarf / Warhammer and he's got the same aesthetic here: dark images, great monsters and grubby, down at heel humans in an unforgiving fantasy world. There are some great images here including some kind of horrible Rawhead Rex thing in a swamp that I didn't find.

Overall not a classic, but definitely a fun play and way better than the authors previous effort - and it being fairly straightforward I played it twice with different choices and won again (there's a potion you can mix that lets you dodge the Dragon fight) - or perhaps won fairly the second time? Oops.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Trooper McFad on 22 August, 2023, 04:55:25 PM
Boots another great read/play through for the non Gamers. Whether it's a good book or not your play throughs are always interesting and your descriptions always bring it to life.

How long does a play through usually take?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 August, 2023, 05:09:50 PM
Thank you mate, very kind words!

These usually take me an hour or two, depending on how many times I die and if I do, do I restart or just cheat and handwave it away. It's a lot quicker if you're not taking notes! I often play them in chunks during quiet periods whilst wfh.
With a really hard book, it can take ages, especially if you're mapping them out. I felt like I was playing House of Hell forever.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 August, 2023, 12:30:42 AM
Another entertaining write-up! It does sound like a better book than I had expected it to be.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Colin YNWA on 23 August, 2023, 01:12:48 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 August, 2023, 03:15:17 PM
Daggers of Darkness

... the cover features a warrior with a hawk, an eyepatch and a tiger codpiece surfing on two sabretooth tigers and wielding a spiked mace with two smaller spiked maces attached to it, morning star style....


There is so much wrong and yet so much right about that cover. I mean after reading that decription can anyone honestly say they've not looked it up? AMAZING!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 August, 2023, 04:58:02 PM
Here it is without logos:

(https://i.imgur.com/XvSfsjI.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Le Fink on 23 August, 2023, 05:16:09 PM
Quote from: Richard on 23 August, 2023, 04:58:02 PMHere it is without logos:
Ha, brilliant. Thanks for posting  :lol:
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 August, 2023, 01:02:02 AM
Quote from: Le Fink on 23 August, 2023, 05:16:09 PM
Quote from: Richard on 23 August, 2023, 04:58:02 PMHere it is without logos:
Ha, brilliant. Thanks for posting  :lol:

There is a sense, if you focus on his expression, that he's completely shitting it.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Colin YNWA on 24 August, 2023, 07:37:19 AM
And the tigers are only there to try to get cast in an Esso advert!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 24 August, 2023, 08:19:09 AM
As a kid I saw this cover plenty of times and just thought it was a standard cool FF image. It was only once I looked at it again years later I thought what the hell is actually going on there! The guy's got skills, to be fair. Not sure if the Eagle is attacking him?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 August, 2023, 09:01:24 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 24 August, 2023, 01:02:02 AMThere is a sense, if you focus on his expression, that he's completely shitting it.

HOW DO I STOP THESE TIGERS FUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKKK

I can't find where this guy appears in the book. I was hoping I'd be able surf the tigers myself, all the way to victory.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 September, 2023, 11:45:18 AM
I've just wrapped up Bloodbones and it's a fantastic book. It hits all the main pirate beats including a a pirate port, revenge, treasure, a ghost ship, zombie pirates, a shipwreck, jungle island, sharks, parrots, sea monsters, voodoo, a castaway and a boarding action. It's structured in four main parts, so you move from port to pirate ship to jungle to voodoo temple, keeping your interest and moving the story along in a rapid and interesting way. It's written by Jonathan Green so it uses keywords, but not excessively, and his atmospheric and evocative writing.

It's also very, very hard. There's very few auto-death paragraphs and only a couple of essential items but it does feature a lot of Skill 10 and above opponents, a time limit on one part where the time limit isn't revealed to you until you've already potentially failed it, and loads of skill and luck tests, so high stats are essential. Even with max stats I couldn't finish this, falling to either the penultimate or final opponent.
Horrible fights aside, the book isn't hard in a Luke Sharp kind of way (although there is a Luke Sharp-esque test that I suggest skipping) but more in a way that you need to learn it, and it's well written and engaging enough to keep you going back again and again to get that little bit further. Even the pirate enemies are given unique names most of the time, so it doesn't just feel like you're battling endless pirates.
Art by Tony Hough who does some lovely monsters but there's something a bit off about his humans (the main bad guy looks like an angry gnome, and a few other characters are a bit moon-faced) but everything is suitably grotesque and dark looking.

This would be an epic writeup if I did it, but I heartily recommend this one. Max stats though!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 02 September, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
Bloodbones is good fun. I'd forgotten Tony Hough did the art, I'll have a look at that now!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 September, 2023, 05:01:48 PM
After a very, very long time I've finally finished Armies of Death. I'm not sure if I'll write this one up because it would be huge. The book is incredibly hard, mainly due to the vast list of items you need to have found to get anywhere, and compounded by the fact that it's virtually impossible to recover any stamina at any point. At one point I was asked a question that I guessed right, which was a good job because the answer isn't actually in this book at all but a different one. There's also a key item that is only available on a 50% dice roll, and another one that you acquire in a very understated way which meant I actually forgot I had it.

The army commanding aspect is pretty rubbish tbh - there's no tactics, and the battles you do fight with them are all more like tiny skirmishes. I didn't think much of the bad guy either. There are some nice encounters but overall I found it a bit of a slog, mainly due to the constant replaying.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 September, 2023, 06:55:14 PM
"Fuck you, Sir Ian!"

Oh dear, that sounds like a very Livingstone-y book! Do tell us about a couple of the fun encounters though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 13 October, 2023, 05:22:28 PM
I had a nice surprise today: my local underground station has a book shelf where people can donate and collect books, and I just picked up Grey Star the Wizard, a spin-off from the Lone Wolf series.

It looks pretty good: there's some excellent art by someone called Paul Bonner, whose work looks very much like John Blanche's style in the FF Sorcery! books. It's not written by Joe Dever, though he does get an "edited by" credit, but by Ian Page, so it might be quite different to the Lone Wolf books. It uses the same combat system.

I don't have time to start it this weekend unfortunately, but I'm looking forward to trying it soon!

(https://i.imgur.com/70fkE4u.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 13 October, 2023, 06:46:40 PM
The first Grey Star book has a good story, as I recall, and an interesting set of powers to choose from in character development. There is no way to actually succeed without cheating, though.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 16 October, 2023, 10:09:56 AM
I've never played that, but the cover image is great. I know Paul Bonner from all his orc artwork in White Dwarf in the 90s, so if the book has plenty of orcs and dwarves in, it'll look superb. Let us know what its like!

I've flagged a bit on gamebooks of late due to various IRL factors, but I was thinking of having a go at Stormslayer this week.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 October, 2023, 05:23:56 PM
Stormslayer

Part 1

So I've not had much gamebook time of late due to a mixture of things including work, holiday, a dose of Covid and Baldurs Gate 3 but I've just had a bash at Stormslayer.

This is the another of the new Wizard books I'm trying - I think there's four in total: this, Bloodbones, Night of the Necromancer and the sadly priced-well-out-of-my-range Howl of the Werewolf. All by Jonathan Green, who wrote the excellent Dracula and Beowulf gamebooks, among others. This book differs in that it has the instructions at the back - which is, to be frank, stupid and annoying - and also provides three pre-generated heroes you can pick from.
It's also got Jon Green's codeword system in play - which I quite like - as well as the need to track the day of the week as certain days boost up certain enemies. This is thematic but also fiddly and annoying. The book covers a lot of ground and there's a constant need to move the day on x days.
The background to the book is that you're playing an already infamous hero and begin with two legendary items. One of them is absolutely terrible, having very low skill and luck. I chose the lucky hero for their Conan / Red Sonja vibes, but in retrospect the high skill hero is the best as luck points are as easy to come by in this book as high skill enemies. But anyway.

I'm Erien Stormchild, a child of the frozen north, come south for fame and adventure. Blessed by the goddess of luck, she wields the sword Wyrmbiter, a legendary weapon recovered from the bottom of Lake Eerie, and carries the sun talisman, an ancient relic stolen from a tomb in Kakhabad, as well as the fang of  a great tiger I slew in the mountains of Mauristatia. All of this detail has me already feeling in-character!

The book opens with me in the Travellers Rest in the village of Vasterin, knocking back pints and boasting of how I defeated a giant king, or of the time I bested the crimson witch of Tannatown, to an adoring audience. When my old rival / enemy Varick Oathbreaker enters - his face bearing a vicious scar from when we once crossed blades - I taunt him and he merely glowers at me. But I'm just about to start chatting up a barmaid when a mighty crash of thunder shakes the inn and throwing open the door I'm confronted with a terrible storm - thunder, hailstones, lighting , the works - hammering down onto the village, causing destruction and chaos on what was a minute ago a lovely spring day. Anxious to look good in front of my public I charge out to shepherd people to safety. Finding my way to the centre of the storm I'm assaulted by a towering humanoid figure of solid ice - a rogue ice elemental! The magic of the sun talisman aids me here and I quickly dispatch it and as I do the storm fades away, moving rapidly north. As I stare after it my sharp eyes make out something within the clouds - like a huge metal fish...
Vasterin has been trashed by the storm, so as the people stumble about in shock I loudly proclaim I'll track down the source of this mysterious storm and put a stop to it. I am a braggart, after all, as well as a mighty hero!
Given the choice of chasing the storm north or following its trail south I choose the latter, hoping to find a clue. The storms trail eventually crosses the borders of the kingdom and goes into the hostile territory of Lendleland, which is full of mongolian-type horsemen. I get a hint that crossing the river border might not be wise and although I contemplate doing it anyway - Erien Stormchild fears no man - I eventually decide to head North to the capital of Chalannabrad to consult the college of mages there.

At Chalannabrad I make my way through packed streets to the soaring towers of the college of wizards but promptly get the brush off by a disinterested council. I'm leaving in a rage when I run into an old wizard mate of mine (who helped me defeat the ogre shaman of Lendleland) who spills the beans - the storm is the work of the crazed elementalist and meteorologist Balthazar Sturm, who was exiled from the college for fusing magic and science and now (to paraphrase) has built a giant weather machine, enslaving four great elementals to do so, and is flying around trashing everything. I must venture to four elemental places of power to gain the power to defeat him. Quest on! There's a lot of exposition here and it's all very well done, if deeply contrived: why aren't the wizard council doing this? Why not send a few extra guys with me? Pah! Erien Stormchild works alone! But she does accept a potion of giant strength, just in case.

Given the choice of four locations to visit, I start off with The Witchtooth Mountains. Trekking down to Lake Eerie I find a group of hunters looking for the legendary Stormdrake and decide to join the hunt, as I am a fearsome tracker. I team up with a fellow named Sylas and his big dog and we track the Wyrm high up to a mountain lair where we find its mighty hoard and split it 50/50 (I take a rope and grapple and a potion of levitation, both of which sound like classic FF essential objects, letting him take most of the gold) before we're set upon by some ravenous hatchlings - no match for Wyrmbiter - but the great drake itself is not present so I bid Sylas farewell and push on to the Witchtooth mountains. Here the land has been totally devastated by terrible earthquakes and the people are in a bit of a state. Obviously I announce myself as a mighty hero and get directions to a dwarf mine - the greatly named 'Fathomdeep' - where the villagers fear the problem may be stemming from - the dwarves have delved too deep, as is their way. I'm offered the chance to hire a guide, but Erien Stormchild needs no bearded weakling crawling in her shadow and I proceed into the abandoned mine alone.
Fathomdeep is a dark, wet, miserable spot - exactly as you'd expect from dwarves. I follow the old mine tracks for a while but balk at the idea of actually traversing them in a cart, and without a guide am soon lost in a maze of passages. After an encounter with a sentient, metal dissolving ooze that I make short work of, I use my rope to scale down a mineshaft figuring any elemental nexus will be at the bottom of the mine. There's another straightforward skirmish, this time with IotLK rubbish monster favourites Grannits, before the mine ends and a natural cave system begins. I creep downwards carefully, sure-footed on the uneven floor. After crossing a narrow stone bridge over a great chasm - complete with giant bats - I evntually discover a chamber scattered with uneven stones and glittering crystals, in the centre of which upon a plinth rests a small figure, a clay model of a humanoid bound with strips of green copper and bearing the words 'Break the bonds that bind me'.
I figure this is the earth elemental I seek - but breaking it out now, hundreds of feet underground, may not be the wisest course, so I put it in my pack, noting as I do the name of the creature carved into the rock. It's time to leave, but as I do so two creatures emerge from the rock in front of me: smaller earth elementals, no doubt charged with protecting this place. The magic sword Wyrmbiter is proof against their stone hides although this is a tough fight and I'm eating provisions as I clamber out of the pit. Behind me, Fathomdeep mine collapses, sealed at last. First elemental down!

My next stop, I think, is water: The Eelsea, which can only be reached by traversing the terrifying Eerieside Marshes. I push on through the stinking mire and eventually arrive.. back in Chalannabrad, which sits on the shore of the Eelsea. WTF indeed. Could I have not just retraced the route I took to the mountains?
First order of business here is finding a way to breathe underwater. I head to the guild of artificers, where they're happy to loan me an experimental breathing helmet free of charge. The helmet is essentially one of those old giant copper fishbowl jobs and I later discover is only good for a certain number of paragraphs below the water before it conks out. Oh and it restricts my skill too.
Hiring a ship to take me out is less easy - all vessels are in harbour due to the fierce storms that keep suddenly rising up out at sea. Eventually I encounter the redoubtable Captain Katarina, a one-eyed pirate, who agrees to ship me out in return for 50% of what I recover. I readily agree and we set sail. The horizon remains thankfully free of storms but on the second day we are enveloped in a thick, unnatural fog courtesy of a fog elemental: again easily dispatched by me. Eventually we arrive at Blackcoral Reef, beneath which lies Devilfish Rift and the sunken temple of Hydana, god of the sea.. from which very few have ever returned.
Donning my stupid helmet I drop off the gangplank and sink link a stone to the seabed below. It's a slog from there to the edge of the rift, a huge fissure down into blackness. At the edge of the rift lies the wrecked remains of a ship, a vast hole in its side. Feeling curious I venture within, avoiding the sharks that swim above decks, and find only the grisly skeletal remains of the old crew, long dead and eaten by fish, and a heavy iron door. The door is shut, but by kicking off the ships timbers I'm able to boot it open and find within a rusted iron chest - but I have no key to open it. Cursing my luck I must descend into the rift.
The deeper I get the darker and gloomier things get until I am barely able to see through the murk. With my air running low I avoid a cave and pass the huge, half eaten corpses of whales and other vast creatures until I reach the edge of a vast precipice upon which, just visible in the darkness, is a fallen column - surely the remains of the temple!
I'm just about to hurry towards it when the rockshelf shakes and the water surges as a vast monster - half octopus, half lobster, all cthulhu nightmare - hauls itself out of the dark. Do I have item A, says the book? Never heard of it. And so the monster promptly eats me! Game over.

Part 2 to follow!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 24 October, 2023, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 24 October, 2023, 05:23:56 PMI'm Erien Stormchild, a child of the frozen north
Oh really?
Then why not Erien FrozenNorthChild then, eh? Eh?
I'm seeing plot holes already.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 24 October, 2023, 11:11:35 PM
Thank you Bootington, I haven't read Stormslayer but I had wondered about that one. Mr Green has written some excellent FF books, and this one seems to have some good art too.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 October, 2023, 09:45:17 AM
Quote from: JohnW on 24 October, 2023, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 24 October, 2023, 05:23:56 PMI'm Erien Stormchild, a child of the frozen north
Oh really?
Then why not Erien FrozenNorthChild then, eh? Eh?
I'm seeing plot holes already.

Erien Stormchild sneers at your pedantry.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 October, 2023, 09:53:19 AM
Quote from: Richard on 24 October, 2023, 11:11:35 PMThank you Bootington, I haven't read Stormslayer but I had wondered about that one. Mr Green has written some excellent FF books, and this one seems to have some good art too.

Yes and yes! There's some lovely art in this one, quite an old school feel.
I reckon this book is worth your time. It's recognisably Jon Green's work and a good one: it's also reasonably forgiving in that it takes a non-linear approach and a lack of key items makes your life harder but isn't insta-death. There's a LOT of fighting in it though so a decent skill score is essential.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 October, 2023, 03:52:37 PM
Stormslayer pt. 2

Having perished on the 'water' segment due to lacking some seemingly useful items, I just restart back after I beat earth and this time elect to go to the Howling Plains to pursue air instead. I pass through Tannatown, where I get a big hero welcome and a full stamina refresh, and then it's onto the inhospitable windswept deserts of the plains. Dust storms are a constant hazard here so I set out wrapped in cloth about my face and wary of the need for shelter. I've been plodding along for less than a day when the first storm appears on the horizon, and as it grows closer, I can make out a brightly coloured object being tossed about in the gusts, and that soon resolves into a balloon, complete with basket and helpless rider, their voice just audible above the wind calling for aid. To my horror and complete lack of surprise the storm itself contains a sand elemental, forming itself out of grit and dust and attempting to swallow the balloon and its inhabitant. I rush to aid them, battling the very storm itself - not sure how that works, but I put it out of commission and once it has dissipated the balloon rider introduces himself as Corbo Rundum, an inventor from a nearby town who had taken it upon himself to investigate the rumours of the skyship after strange weather, droughts and so on began ravaging his land. He says he owes me one and gives me some fairly useless advice, but I'm a big hero so I suggest he head on to Chalannabrad to petition the college of mages for aid whilst I press on with my quest.
Leaving Corbo fixing his balloon I push south for several days until I arrive at the delightfully named Screaming Canyons, so named both for the wind that howls through them, and the warlike tribes of birdmen that dwell within. The canyons are a bit of a maze and I wander here for a while aiming to get to a towering spire of rock. A vicious encounter with a pair of birdmen who ambush me in the narrow passages leaves me near dead and scoffing provisions. Eventually I arrive at the spire which I ascend with my rope, navigating crumbling ledges and sharp overhangs to reach a natural arch near the summit, within which awaits a red-cloaked figure.
As the wind stirs up, the figure asks my purpose and I beg for aid. After answering a straightforward riddle the figure decides my riddle-skills make my worthy and offers the aid of the Air Elemental Zephyrus, the West Wind, to defeat Sturm who has captured the North Wind, Boreas. It then gently drops me back to the floor of the canyon. Second elemental is done!

I've no desire to attempt the sea segment again so its off instead to Mount Pyre for a spot of fire-themed adventure. I head south and find the land blighted by drought and earthquake, with refugees fleeing west. I boldly press on into the desolation, battle a giant worm, and arrive at the shores of Lake Cauldron where I can take a boat up the River of Fire to Mount Pyre itself. Now here I get a bit sneaky: it's nearly Fireday on the calendar, and I don't fancy facing any powered up fire enemies, so I opt instead for a long walk upriver to move the days of the week on a bit and past Fireday. I do have to fight a bunch of Hobgoblin bandits enroute, but they are no match for my skills and I leave them bleeding out in the dust.
Eventually I arrive at Mount Pyre itself, belching smoke and flame into the sky, and find my way to the entrance to the fabled Fire Tunnels that lead into the mountain itself. Inside, the tunnels are blisteringly hot and the air thick with smoke. I get attacked by some kind of batwinged monster, and when I go to look at its nest I get badly bitten by more of them.
It's a bit of a maze in here and the oppressive heat is making it hard to breathe, let alone fight. At periodic points I discover crystals with letters engraved upon them - I collect a few of these as I go along, crossing chasms with my rope, avoiding gas pockets and skirmishing with the strange denizens of the tunnels including one very difficult fight with depleted skill against two magma-creatures that again left me low on stamina. Due to a misreading here, I thought I couldn't recover stamina in the tunnels due to the heat (I actually couldn't utilise the 'free' stamina healing you get on the passage of days) so between that and the need to navigate maze-like tunnels this wasn't my favourite part of the book. This was followed by a horrific looking fight with a firewyrm, but thanks to the bonus Wyrmslayer gave me against drakes and the like, I jammily won it without losing a single attack round.
Flush with firewyrm loot but also pretty much on my last legs I emerge into a vast chamber containing a lake of boiling magma, on the shores of which is a blackened altar with six alcoves within it, about the shape of the... five.. crystals I carry. As I lean on the altar contemplating my next move a fire elemental explodes up from the magma and bellows in rage at my impudence in daring to come here. Do I have six fire crystals? Nope. Is it time for Erien Stormchild to meet a fiery death? Yep. I have to fight the elemental and in my weakened state he burns me to ash in moments.

So basically, I start again at the volcano entrance and re-work my way through here. It takes me two attempts to get all six crystals, at which point you can invoke the name of The Burning One to stop it attacking you and ask for the means to gain power over a greater fire elemental. It tells me I must know its name - and I don't know what elemental Sturm has bound, so instead I ask this fire elemental for its name, which it provides and then goes bananas with fury, diving back into the magma lake and triggering the volcano to erupt. In horror I turn for the entranceway only to see it collapsing into molten lava and instead charge up another tunnel in desperation, dodging falling rocks and erupting geysers of magma. There follows a neat little sequence of choices which all contribute to a 'time' stat and once I reach the entrance I'm asked how much time it took me... I have a time of 6 and the death threshold is 7, so after passing a couple of luck checks I finally stumble sweat-drenched, battered and beaten (and on 3 stamina) out into the fresh air as Mount Pyre erupts behind me. All I can do is run like hell until I reach a safe distance.

that's three down so its back to Eelsea for me to re-attempt the water segment. But who is this stopping me upon the road? None other than my old rival Varick Oathbreaker from the introduction, and four hired thugs. They close on me with weapons drawn as Varick spits out his anger and desire to finally see me in the grave. I could plead with him for leniency, claim the importance of my mission - but why waste words on a dog like this? With a howl I launch myself into combat - and die again. Five to one odds are not favourable!
The issue here isn't high skill enemies, but fighting several reasonable skill enemies at once. I die here twice more before I decide to use my potion giant strength, which powers me up sufficiently to deal with Varick and his gang. Oathbreaker is the last to fall and after chugging his potion of healing and stealing his loot I leave his body for the vultures and press on to Eelsea.
I'm now flush with gold, so after loading up on provisions at the market, this time I skip the guild of artificers and instead go to the Academy of Naval Mages where I'm able to hire the grandly named Prospero Seacharmer to aid me in my undersea adventures. Then its the same routine as before - out with Captain Katarina, only this time Prospero is on hand to deal with the fog elemental. When we reach the reef he casts an enchantment upon me to temporarily give me gills, enabling me to breathe underwater and also increasing my skill (beyond maximum!) underwater instead of reducing it. Prospero rules!
Now charged up I investigate the pirate ship but head to the deck first, beat up the sharks and in the captains cabin find a key that unlocks the chest below, within which I find a human skull wearing a crown of red and white coral, which I put on. It's also got tons of loot so now attired as the queen of the sea or something I scoop all that into bags before heading down to the rift.
My previous failure fresh in my mind and with no time limitation, this time I explore a cave on the side of the rift, fighting through various reef-dwelling crustaceans and eels as I do. The cave itself has a curious spongey quality to it - its no cave - as I swim desperately out it begins to close, the mouth of some huge sea-dwelling monstrosity. Luckily I slip between the jaws of the thing and am away before it can notice me.
My only way forward now is to the temple, where once again the Cthulhu-thing emerges and once again I do not have the item the book asks for. I know this battle is beyond even I, so I try to flee into the temple - and as the thing pursues me what should loom out of the dark ahead but the huge sea-monster I just slipped from the mouth of! Hungrily it crashes into Cthulhu and as the battle it out to the death I'm able to nip inside the temple.
Within stands a statue of the sea god, Hydana, and at his feet rests a trident of gold and vast conch. I can take one, so go for the conch. Two Naiads appear and ask my purpose: they don't care about Sturm and happenings on land, but when they see I wear the crown they agree to give me the Shell of the Sea to aid my quest. Done! Now it just remains for me to reach Sturms weather machine and defeat the man himself...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: JohnW on 25 October, 2023, 04:58:08 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 25 October, 2023, 03:52:37 PMEventually I arrive at Mount Pyre itself, belching smoke and flame into the sky,

My God, man! What had you been eating?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 27 October, 2023, 10:27:33 AM
Stormslayer 3

It's time to take the fight to mad science-wizard Balthazar Sturm on his airship, but how to get there? Before I can assess the various options here comes Corbo Rundum in his hot air balloon and he handily gives me a lift. Before we get there though we have to fight the Stormdrake, which is here for unknown reasons. Is it thrall to Sturm or does it just like hanging out in storms? This is another very hard fight but I have Wyrmslayer, and Corbo also joins in. The Stormdrake is dispatched and I leap aboard the airship!
It's all standard steampunky stuff here. My goal is apparently to increase the ships damage score as high as possible. Eager to start breaking stuff I basically go through the first door I see, which leads to a cabin: there's some codes here for activating or deactivating a giant robot, which seems ominous. I keep rifling around until I get attacked by a robotic homunculus which then explodes and sets the cabin alight, which is kind of a good thing? Leaving the cabin ablaze my next stop is a room with some bellows / windmill setup so I slice the bellows to pieces and then continue my vandalism rampage by finding some kind of lighting generator room and setting that alight too. Then its onto the engine room to fight some rubbish monsters and discover the engine itself within which the four greater elementals are bound. I smash up the engine and release them, which damages the ship and also me when I'm blown up. Staggering out of the cabin I run into the aforementioned giant robot. I can deactivate it if I win two consecutive attack rounds, which is not easy as its Skill is higher than mine and it absolutely pulps me to death.

Restart from boarding the airship. This time I start in the bilges, where there's a second, disused giant robot with a big empty space in its head but I've nothing to put in there. I retrace my steps but this time after getting the golem deactivation notes I nip into another room which has some sails in it, so I chop all the ropes. Then its back to the trail of destruction that ends up with me fighting the robot golem again, only this time I very jammily do manage to win two attack rounds and shut it down. After eating the last of my provisions its time to face Sturm himself on the bridge. There's a nice scene where he does a big monologue and I respond by listing all the monsters I've vanquished and saying I doubt I'll have much trouble with a mad weather wizard and then he kicks off.
We start with a sword-in-the stone-style bit of one-upmanship. Sturm transforms himself into a human torch, so I counter by summoning the air elemental and dousing him. He then armours himself with rock and earth, so I call upon the water elemental to wash away his protection. Finally he transforms into a being of water, but the fire elemental turns him to steam. He then blows out the fire elemental with winds, so I summon the earth elemental to crush him.
Finally its mano a mano. Sturm draws into himself the powers of the storm and attacks from above with lightning bolts. I still have the potion of levitation so I'm able to fly up and match him in a battle to the death (his)
As Sturm drops dying to the deck his weather machine finally starts to come to bits, exploding and collapsing in on itself. He falls screaming hundreds of feet above the ground, and Erien Stormchild falls with him to her doom. Its a bit of pyrrhic victory tbh but it turns out I can use the air elemental to get out of it if I hadn't previously used it to extinguish Sturm's fore form and just fought him twice - so lets do that - and summoning the air elementals power I am safely whisked back to earth.

All seems well - but before I can catch my breath a distant rumble fills my ears. To my horror, across the plain I can see the charging army of the Lendleland, a barbarian horde, allied to Sturm (apparently) and rushing straight for the border - and more importantly, me! Are my efforts in vain?
As I prepare to sell my life dearly a vast shadow falls across the plain. The barbarian horde looks up in disbelief - and the remains of Sturms weather machine drops heavily onto them, crushing them to death with an almighty splat for a hilarious end to the book.

"And that" finished Erien Stormchild "Is the story of how I saved the kingdom not once but twice in one afternoon. Bring me another beer, and I'll tell you how I conquered the Portal of Evil.."

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 27 October, 2023, 06:59:45 PM
I like that write-up! It's clear that you enjoyed this one.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 02 November, 2023, 11:18:07 PM
Grey Star the Wizard

After some delay, I finally had time to start this book today, and I'm pleased to say that it exceeded my expectations. I had had some doubts about it because Joe Dever co-wrote this one with someone else (Ian Page), but it's just as good as Lone Wolf, and in one respect it's even better! It has two companions, two anti-Mungos who come along with you for a big chunk of the book, which adds a real sensation of an actual story, almost a novel, to an extent that most gamebooks fail to accomplish.

There's some pretty decent art by Paul Bonner, whose style reminds me a bit of John Blanche's work in the Sorcery! books. And there is a full colour map inside the front cover, which looks quite a lot like North America (but it's not). I always appreciate a full colour map in a gamebook!

The premise is that as an orphaned human baby, I was washed up on the shore of an island (essentially Cuba on the map) which is exclusively inhabited by non-human wizards who are forbidden to interfere in the affairs of humans. They do however wish to assassinate an evil emperor who is spreading tyranny around the world, so they spend 16 years teaching me wizard skills and then send me, on my own, to sort-of-Texas in a small boat. I'm supposed to find a lost tribe of people who are going to help me find a magical item with which to destroy the evil emperor, who is also a powerful necromancer.

Playthrough

Instead of dice, there is a table of numbers at the back of the book which you stab a pencil at with your eyes closed to generate a random number between zero and nine. I begin by generating literally the lowest possible character scores possible, saying "fuck that," and trying again. This time I get some respectable scores. There are three: Combat Skill, Endurance, and Willpower. The first two speak for themselves, and Willpower is how much magical power you have.

I am asked to choose five magical skills from a list of seven, which seems pretty generous. I go with Prophecy, Psychomancy, Evocation (which is speaking with the dead!), Alchemy, and Enchantment. I forego Sorcery (which is a powerful one but seems to deplete your willpower quickly) and Elementalism (the power to invoke the aid of unpredictable elemental creatures, which seems a bit ... unpredictable).

Arriving at the mainland for the first time in my life, I am offered the choice of sailing straight into a busy harbour or waiting for night to fall so I can stealthily slip into port undetected, under cover of darkness. Since I'm supposed to be on a clandestine secret mission, I naturally opt for the latter. This turns out to be a sneaky trap set by the writers, who knew I would do that. I have been observed waiting for the sunset, and that looks very suspicious! I am blackmailed by the harbour master, who threatens to grass me up unless I sell him my boat for half its worth. That's not as bad as it sounds though, because I don't need the boat anymore but I do need money, but it is a sign that I will have to make my choices a bit more carefully from now on.

The harbour master also gives me directions to a pub where I might be able to find out information about my quest. I go there, and promptly lose a quarter of my money bribing a totally uninformative barman, before sitting at a table with three customers and choosing the right one to speak to. He doesn't say much but he gives me some stuff which I  assume will come in handy later (it does), and then when soldiers show up I elect to leave at once so I don't get arrested. I still get arrested a short while later though (but it turns out that this is actually unavoidable, because the next section of the book takes place in a prison).

I survive a magical interrogation by a witch, who promises me that they have other ways of making me talk, and I'm taken to a cell. My new cellmates are a man I saw in the tavern, and a priest (of the same religion as my wizard friends). The priest tells us he has been here for 20 years, and then dies!

The guy from the tavern is a merchant called Shan, who I didn't speak to the last time I saw him, but I enjoyed meeting him again, because I like recurring characters in gamebooks since they're so rare. I don't know it yet, but he's actually going to be my new sidekick and a major character in the book. We are given rice to eat by a young girl who is working for the jailors and appears to be an apprentice of the nasty witch who interrogated me. She casually mentions that the witch will re-animate the dead priest's corpse as a zombie slave, which is quite a chilling scene as this child has no conception of how evil that is, given her upbringing, and just mentions it in an off-hand way like it's nothing. Her name, I learn later, is Tanith.

Tanith tells me that I am to be horribly tortured, so I begin plotting my escape. I have to choose which of the seven magical skills I'm going to use to do that. I nearly choose Evocation, because talking to the dead sounds like the coolest skill, when I realise that's actually a bad idea because if the dead priest couldn't escape for 20 years then what can he possibly tell me that's going to be of any use? (It's a shame I didn't choose this one though, because when I went back and looked at this after my playthrough it really was the coolest option! He tells you how to free the spirits of all the dead prisoners who were executed or tortured to death in this prison, and these vengeful ghosts destroy the whole fucking place and kill everyone inside it except Grey Star, Shan and Tanith!)

So, regrettably, I chose Enchantment instead. I make one of the guards think the cell is on fire, so he opens the door and lets us out, and then I kill him, take his keys and release the prisoners. Under the cover of a mass breakout, I lead my new friend Shan down a corridor and directly into the magical torture chamber they were going to take me to anyway! We are aghast to find that there are literally hundreds of corpses covering the entire floor! The room is the home of some powerful, evil magical entity which attacks me psychically. This encounter is written in such a way that I really despair of surviving it, and my adversary has some impressive stats ... but I easily slay it in the first round! What a combat system! In FF I would have been toast!

So we both run down another passageway and bump into none other than Tanith, who seems to have taken a shine to me and has brought me all my possessions which were confiscated from me when I was arrested. She shows us the way out, and I escape. I now have two companions, and they are both useful allies! Tanith turns out to be an accomplished huntress who uses her magical powers to lure unsuspecting forest animals to their doom, and Shan cooks them. Also Tanith, despite her tender years, is a professional killer who makes Arya Stark in season 8 look like Arya Stark in episode 1.1. And Shan, despite being just a merchant, still turns out to be brave and quite handy in a fight.

So I am now part of a cast of three plucky adventurers, and we're off to a good start!

This is only about half as far as I got tonight, but this entry is getting a bit long, so I'll do the rest tomorrow. I am really enjoying this book though!



Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 November, 2023, 10:11:11 AM
Really enjoyed reading this, and this book sounds great! Thanks for taking the time to write it out and definitely would like to hear how the rest goes. I really like Joe Dever and Paul Bonner, so it sounds well worth me reading it.
Totally agree that companions who do not do a Mungo can really elevate a gamebook.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 03 November, 2023, 02:12:57 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 November, 2023, 10:11:11 AMReally enjoyed reading this, and this book sounds great! Thanks for taking the time to write it out and definitely would like to hear how the rest goes. I really like Joe Dever and Paul Bonner, so it sounds well worth me reading it.
Totally agree that companions who do not do a Mungo can really elevate a gamebook.

Me this also.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 04 November, 2023, 12:22:35 AM
Thanks guys!

Grey Star part 2

Following our daring escape from the prison, we are pursued by two soldiers in a chariot. I fight them and kill them both, not needing any assistance from my new friends because I kill them at a distance with bolts of lightning or whatever from my wizard's staff. It's cool being a wizard!

We leave the road and trek through the forest. We spend the night in a clearing, and my grateful companions offer to let me sleep throughout the whole night while they take turns keeping watch. This feels like a trap, in that I assume I will probably be punished for sleeping when I should be doing my share, so I decline and take first watch. My punishment is that I have hardly rested by morning. Looking at what would have happened if I'd chosen to accept their offer, it turns out I would have been fully rested and would have restored some lost points. This reminds me of the start of my adventure, when I thought I could second guess the writers and was wrong. I have to remind myself that this is not a Fighting Fantasy book.

In the morning we have to decide where to go. This is where the stuff I picked up in the tavern comes in useful. It's a not very challenging puzzle (but it's a children's book), and I learn that I need to head south. But I still have to choose between two southerly routes: along the road (presumably being watched by the authorities) or along a river (I choose that way). We are ambushed by soldiers along the way, and I win, but it's a harder fight than the previous ones and I lose a few endurance and willpower points.

The next encounter is a big set piece, which takes up quite a few paragraphs in the book as there are so many options. We come across a wagon which is being attacked by 20 evil soldiers. It is defended by six brave knights who Shan informs me are identifiable from their shields as hailing from a remote kingdom aligned to good. These knights have given a good account of themselves, but they are so outnumbered that they can't possibly prevail without our help. It looks like a fools' errand really, 9 against 20, but gamebooks rarely reward discretion, so I create an illusion which makes some of the soldiers look like knights in the eyes of their comrades, and they turn on each other. It's a fun moment, but now my willpower has become dangerously low. Withdrawing is not an option however, and I have to rush into the fray and finish of the survivors; my only choice is my target. With the help of my companions (and especially Tanith, it's fair to say), the rest of the soldiers are soon dispatched. The grateful (and rich) merchant whose wagon the knights were protecting showers us with gifts.

[BIG SPOILER!]

We make some progress on our journey, and it feels like I'm really getting somewhere, but then there is a serious setback. I awake in the night to find Tanith behaving suspiciously. I've grown accustomed to her being an ally, and forgotten that she has been raised by evil people throughout her whole life (and it's not as if there haven't been clues!). She seems to be in some kind of magical communion with someone, and that someone turns out to be the witch who interrogated me when I was brought into the prison! To give Tanith her due, she does seem to be reluctant to participate in my murder, and she even apologises to me (but fuck her all the same). The witch remotely attacks me with her magic via the campfire, and then she summons a Soul-eater to kill me.

The Soul-eater is by far the deadliest opponent I have yet encountered. Its stats alone tell me that I am not likely to survive this fight, but then the text tells me that in addition to the normal combat rules, I will automatically lose 1 willpower point and 2 endurance points every round in addition to regular damage!

I'm on a hiding to nothing here. My endurance and willpower scores are already too low, and I just can't afford this kind of attrition. And that's a moot point anyway, because the monster's combat skill is NINE POINTS higher than mine, and that's a lot! I sigh, knowing the outcome is inevitable, even though I only have to survive four attack rounds before something is going to interrupt the fight, and begin combat. I am killed in the fourth round.

Oh well! I still think I got pretty far on my first playthrough, since there are so many ways you can die before you get to this point, and the book didn't feel like it was too easy. As I've said before, it felt like a proper story, not just like a series of unconnected encounters, like so many gamebooks do. Out of curiosity, I read what would have happened if I had survived four rounds of combat, and it turns out that Shan shows up (where had he been?) and pleads with Tanith to save me, and she has a last-minute change of heart and sacrifices herself by throwing herself into the fire to break the witch's connection to our location! So maybe she wasn't so bad after all. She is certainly an interesting character.

I'll keep on reading the book, but I don't think I'll try to do a legitimate playthrough, as that fight seems unfairly tough (you lose quite a few more endurance points as collateral damage when Tanith dies, so it is basically unsurvivable). I'll do a third and final post about this book when I've finished it. But I've already seen enough to highly recommend it. I think it's actually better than the three Lone Wolf books I've read (1, 2 and 10). You certainly won't be disappointed!



Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 07 November, 2023, 10:11:06 AM
This does sound brilliant, despite the appalling difficulty. And a very enjoyable read! I'm totally looking it out now.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 November, 2023, 06:15:02 PM
Grey Star part 3

It turns out I didn't have much further to go. I avoid a carnivorous tree, and then the next encounter is a big one, with seemingly dozens of paragraphs describing our very hazardous attempt to get past scores of hostile flying frog-creatures. No matter what we do -- run, fight, try to sneak around -- it is impossible for Shan to survive, and my choices only affect the manner of his demise and whether or not I die with him. Poor old Shan!

Escaping, I arrive at a lake of acid which gives off toxic fumes that deprive me of one Endurance point for every paragraph I linger here. I can take a hint, and I don't waste any time trying to get past it. I start climbing a sheer, smooth cliff, and just when it's impossible to climb any higher I find a small tunnel and go down that. The book keeps asking me if I want to stop, which feels like a trap (it is) so I keep going.

The tunnel leads to a labyrinth occupied by giant mantis insects, who immediately try to eat me. I fight one and then there is a sequence where I have to make the right choices as I try to escape from their nest without dying, in the course of which one of them spits acid at me which strips my calf to the bone at a cost of eight Endurance points! When I make it outside and on ground level in a jungle, I assume I'm safe, only to find that a horde of the little bastards are still in pursuit! I blast several of them with a lightning bolt but it's no good, and I have to sprint through the trees and then climb a tree.

(There's a really sneaky trap set by the writers during this bit, which I won't spoil because it's a good one. I managed to avoid this auto-death choice!)

The insects follow me up the tree, and others get ahead of me on another branch, and I'm surrounded with no hope of escape...

Then the lost tribe I'm searching for find me, rescue me from the insects and carry me to their king! Turn to 350!

There's a double-page illustration for the final paragraph, and a cliff-hanger ending where I have to convince the tribe I am who I say I am (although I can see where it's going because the answer to the shaman's riddle was in paragraph 1). I'm quite tempted to track down book 2!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 07 November, 2023, 06:53:16 PM
Anyone interested in the Grey Star and Lone Wolf sagas can view them as web versions at Project Aon (https://www.projectaon.org/en/Main/Books) (which was something Dever was involved in - as in, he allowed it).

The Grey Star books are listed under "World of Lone Wolf".
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 November, 2023, 02:52:53 PM
Thanks Funt!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 10 November, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2023, 02:45:16 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AMJimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?

No, I never did!

Sadly, around the same time I fell off the gamebook wagon I went and bought a Nintendo Switch, sealing my own doom. My unfinished quest for the Crown of Kings nags away at me, though. Must make some time to complete it before the year is out...
*coughs voluntarily*...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 04 December, 2023, 03:27:38 PM
Quote from: Richard on 10 November, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2023, 02:45:16 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AMJimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?

No, I never did!

Sadly, around the same time I fell off the gamebook wagon I went and bought a Nintendo Switch, sealing my own doom. My unfinished quest for the Crown of Kings nags away at me, though. Must make some time to complete it before the year is out...
*coughs voluntarily*...


I know, I know...!

But after the Switch I went and made sproglet #2 (with some admitted help from my partner), who has proven equally distracting.
(https://i.imgur.com/eYaZaTJ.jpeg?1)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 04 December, 2023, 11:27:06 PM
Congratulations!!!

(That's still a poor excuse though)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 06 December, 2023, 10:35:13 AM
Congrats on another sprogling dude! It's nice to know people still want to sleep with gamebook nerds.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 06 December, 2023, 10:59:37 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 December, 2023, 10:35:13 AMIt's nice to know people still want to sleep with gamebook nerds.
That's a massive relief to me.
Though it hasn't resulted in much action lately...
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 06 December, 2023, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 August, 2023, 02:45:16 PM
Quote from: Richard on 17 August, 2023, 02:13:22 AMJimbo, did you ever finish Sorcery 4?

No, I never did!

Sadly, around the same time I fell off the gamebook wagon I went and bought a Nintendo Switch, sealing my own doom. My unfinished quest for the Crown of Kings nags away at me, though. Must make some time to complete it before the year is out...


Sorcery, you say?

Switch, you say?

Why choose when you can have both, I say.

Sorcery - the Switch version (https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/steve-jacksons-sorcery-switch/)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 06 December, 2023, 02:59:02 PM
Also, Congrats!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 07 December, 2023, 02:36:48 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 06 December, 2023, 02:58:43 PMSorcery, you say?

Switch, you say?

Why choose when you can have both, I say.

Sorcery - the Switch version (https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/steve-jacksons-sorcery-switch/)

Loyal readers (both of them!) of my Sorcery adventures thus far will know I was indeed playing the fancy-pants new electronic version...

Shamutanti Hills (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1085767;topicseen#msg1085767)
Kharé part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1086825;topicseen#msg1086825)
Kharé part II (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1088379;topicseen#msg1088379)
Seven Serpents part I (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1091977#msg1091977)
Seven Serpents part II (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1092287#msg1092287)
Seven Serpents part III (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48009.msg1092547#msg1092547)

Highly recommended to all and sundry (the games, not my playthroughs)!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 07 December, 2023, 06:10:49 PM
I'm seeing a pattern!

I want to see a four-part playthrough of book 4!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 11 December, 2023, 04:40:41 PM
I would also like to see that!

Fortnights Zanbar Bone avatar reminded me that I am started playing Portal of Evil but various things (work, stress, Baldur Gate 3) distracted me and now I've forgotten the bulk of the plot. It was quite good so I'll have another go of it. I've also got Grey Star the Wizard!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 15 December, 2023, 02:51:26 PM
And that's Portal of Evil in the bag!

I'm not able to write up my full journey through this one, but I thought it was a very good book. It's by Peter Darvill-Evans and whilst not as good as Beneath Nightmare Castle its another great one.

The basic plot is that an evil dude named Horfak is using an army of pseudo-zombies to invade the land. What makes it interesting is that he's doing this by chucking people through a magic portal, where people are either mindwiped and end up part of his army of minions or get transformed into something else, usually a dinosaur or some other monster, because the portal is to some Lost World type place... so you start off investigating dinosaur incursions but if you're not too gung-ho you quickly realise these monsters aren't what they seem and the deeper plot is gradually revealed.
The setting is standard fantasy stuff (and mostly in a forest) but all beautifully detailed - there's none of the gothic atmosphere of BNC but there's some flair to some of the prose:  there's a lovely scene if you take the time to free some caged birds. It encourages exploration, as you can quite quickly get through the plot to the end but if you do you'll find yourself missing a lot of information and items to win.

Having played it a few times there's definitely an optimal path through the book but it's possible to skip a few bits as a lot of the items merely serve to make things easier, although there are a couple of absolutely vital items if you want to survive. One, a mirror, I managed to get three times but the other, some explosive, is only available in one spot and if you miss it, you're dead. This makes the book feel quite forgiving, especially as there's not too many auto-deaths and the optimum path also avoids a lot of dangerous combat. I suspect it's possible with any stats, although there are a few do or die skill, stamina and luck tests near the end. Choices and puzzles reward paying attention: there's a few 'left or right' choices that can lead to you missing key encounters but that's part and parcel of FF. There was one puzzle I couldn't work out at all though (you can circumvent it if you have rope) so if anyone else has played it I'd be interested to know how it works.
Although the setting is kind of generic and enemies are goblins and such for most of it there's some interesting encounters along the way and some memorable scenes. The end bit, where you pass through the portal, sadly feels a little rushed and if anything the 'get to the portal' bit could have been trimmed for a bit more prehistoric stuff later.

Art by Alan Langford who we all know draws a mean dino. The cover is the weakest art here.

I didn't know much about this one before playing it but I recommend it. Next up - Vault of the Vampire and (probably) a full playthrough.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 15 December, 2023, 06:58:31 PM
I have all of the books (Puffin, Wizard & Scholastic) but I've only played them up to Armies of Death (which is where I got up to when I stopped buying them as they came out).

Although, thinking about it, I did play Return to Firetop Mountain casually (as in without dice and granted a fabulous set of stats), and found it extremely easy - or maybe it was just chance since I got through to the end first go.

I was waiting until I'd got all the rest before playing any new ones through, but now I have them all I'm instead waiting for that "right time" to sit a play properly, and map the books out like I used to as a kid. Been waiting for ages. Now I'm waiting until my house renovations are out the way. Then I'll have some time to dedicate to them. *sigh*

Maybe it's the rose-tinted spectacles but it seemed as though the interior art went a bit downhill after Armies of Death, though perhaps my favourite internal art is the "Demonic Slayer" from Knights of Doom (by Tony Hough).
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 15 December, 2023, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: Fortnight on 15 December, 2023, 06:58:31 PMNow I'm waiting until my house renovations are out the way.

I turned a life-corner a few years ago and stopped thinking about life being endless (in which there'll always be time to paint that Warhammer mini, or to read that pile of comics) and started realizing that I have a finite amount of things like time and eye-sight and that, at some point, because I'm an avid collector of nerd-things, I will have so many nerd-things that there simply isn't enough lifespan left to experience them all.

[Reflecting pleasantly now on the construction of a long sentence.]
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 16 December, 2023, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 15 December, 2023, 07:57:43 PMI turned a life-corner a few years ago and stopped thinking about life being endless
Ah I've been there too. This is one of the reasons I'm doing the renovations now, while I can. So I can create somewhere pleasant to live out my declining years. Coming to terms with the notion that one day I'll be sat in my home, helping handles on everything, with my feet clad in my brown plaid dad slippers, a pretty young nurse on call to change my nappy, and surrounded by so many nerd-things I don't know which to nerd-out over. All day. Every day. Could be good.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 December, 2023, 11:07:07 AM
I'm missing the last five of the Puffin run Fortnight, as well as Howl of the Werewolf, so if you do play them all through I'd be really interested to see what those in particular are like.
Mapping them is the only way to go as some of them are obscenely difficult otherwise: as an adult I've found the puzzles on the whole easier, but the books still vary wildly in difficulty. It's been a fun experience so far. Artwise, I'm not far past Armies.. but I've not seen any decline in standards and I think my next book up is the first Martin McKenna one - I've a tremendous affection for his work based off 80s White Dwarf so seeing more of his work is going to be a real treat, I think.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 18 December, 2023, 11:46:44 AM
Lucky for me I have two copies of every title, one that's nice, minty and first-editiony, and one that's tattier for playing. Several titles I have more than two copies. At the last count I have 42 copies of The Warlock of Firetop Mountain. :lol:
I don't know what I was thinking.

No spares of the last 5 though, sadly. And none of Howl of the Werewolf, although that one should be easier to pick up. I've heard that one is very good though, so I'm wondering if I should not worry about going through them in order and do the ones that are supposed to be excellent.

I played a series of recent gamebooks by Victoria Hancox and they were surprisingly really good. All puzzles and no need for dice n that in those which takes away some of the annoying randomness inherent in FF stuff. Very atmospheric and they definitely benefit from a bit of mapping.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 December, 2023, 11:07:07 AMI think my next book up is the first Martin McKenna one
I like Martin McKenna's art in these, and he improves a lot as they go on, I think.
So you'll be on Daggers of Darkness, which is the last one I got before I stopped buying them new. I don't even remember playing it back then!

The degree to which I loved these books as a kid you'd think I'd be right into D&D, but, being a solitary lad I never got to play. And so never really got into the tangent stuff like miniatures and role-playing material (Dragon, etc, although I do have some copies of Dragon magazine, and I think I have a couple of Clarecraft figures - certainly one at least).

I still don't know anyone who plays D&D, and these days I'm almost entirely housebound due to health problems, so too late to start. Ah well.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 December, 2023, 12:06:25 PM
Howl of the Werewolf is £100 on ebay at the moment! I asked Jon Green about a reprint in person earlier this year and he sid there's a reluctance to reprint anything that wasn't authored by Steve or Ian, but hopefully that will change at some point. I've also heard it is amazing.
I wouldn't expect to get a spare of the last five from you - they change hands for more money than Howl on the second hand market. If you had 42 copies of Deathmoor you'd be better of than 42 copies of Warlock (42 copies is nuts btw! You could build your own Firetop Mountain out of those)
Sorry to hear you're in ill-health though dude, hopefully having some book-based adventures will be a pleasant way to spend your time..

I second the priase of Victoria Hancox - only the played the first one of her series and it was very, very good. I am interested to try more.
And for D&D, it's totally possible to play online these days through means of virtual tabletops (VTT) such as Roll20. I suspect if you really wanted to give it a bash there would be a forum somewhere where you could sign up and give it a bash!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 18 December, 2023, 09:55:31 PM
I just looked on ebay and you're right. 100 quid! And that's the cheap one! Blimey. You'd think Scholastic would put out the ones that folk are crying out for. I mean, I'm all for almost-Charlie Higson and wee Pratchettette penned material if it's good (not played those two yet, but ho... that cover... you know the one I mean... wtf?) but let's have some of the others!

Although maybe JG is getting off lightly given the treatment of the reprints. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the B-format paperback size, and the interior illustrations are just not... right. Is the printing cheap? On the wrong paper? I don't know, they're just all so hard to see. (And that cover... dear dear me). And the font is shit. Bring back Palatino and those old-style numbers that hang below the line! Classic.

And I definitely recommend the rest of Victoria Hancox's Nightshift series (or The Cluster of Echoes as I think it's now called - my copy of the first one has a simple plain cover with a b&w image and I don't remember any mention of a series in it, so the series maybe something of a retcon). But they're all really good. Perhaps the follow-ups seemed not quite so impressive, but that may be because the first one was such a great surprise that my expectations may have been raised too high.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 December, 2023, 10:08:18 PM
Quotethere's a reluctance to reprint anything that wasn't authored by Steve or Ian
That's annoying and foolish, some of the best books in the series are by other authors.

I used to have three editions of The Warlock of Firetop Mountain, and then I decided that was excessive so I sold one. Why do you have 42? Are most of them foreign language editions?

I like the art in Portal of Evil but I have absolutely no recollection of anything that happens in it, which is not a good sign, so I think I'll skip it. I might give the next three a go, but I'm impatient to get onto Master of Chaos, which is one of my all time faves.

Not read Howl of the Werewolf, but you play as a werewolf and it was voted best FF book in a readers' poll a few years ago. (I'm a big fan of Green's later book, Night of the Necromancer, where you play as a ghost, with skills like walking through walls and possessing people.)

Not heard of Nightshift before, what is it about?


Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 18 December, 2023, 10:50:58 PM
Quote from: Richard on 18 December, 2023, 10:08:18 PMWhy do you have 42?
Oh, well I had the one I bought as a kid, then the one I bought when they rebranded with the green spine so they all looked nice and matching on the shelf, then I grew up and... paused.

Years later I decided I would rekindle my old love for gamebooks and bought up loads of job-lots of them on ebay so I'd eventually get them all, and in those days you could buy job lots for a few quid plus postage and most of them came with Warlock. These days the market has sussed their collectability and they mostly get sold solo.

Then I went after a first edition, then a better condition one, then an even better condition one to replace that, and finally a near-mint one.

Then there is the Wizard versions, regular and special edition, B-format edition, then an A-format edition before Wizard folded, plus the anniversary edition.

Before you know it I got shitloads.

I suppose I got carried away, but now I can't get rid of them. I can't throw away a book - I just don't have it in me - and I don't have to sell them if I don't want to. I keep the different impressions and the rest are spare and can be given away. Or they could if I could get to them right now. Much is in storage right now due to the aforementioned renovations.


Is it excessive? Of course. Do I care? No. Do I care what anyone else thinks? No. :D


Quote from: Richard on 18 December, 2023, 10:08:18 PMNot heard of Nightshift before, what is it about?
First one is set in modern day in a hospital with a worker on a night shift (you) and after dozing off you wake and things are... different. The people who should be there aren't, and something else is... And you need to get out.

No dice, no stats. Just puzzles. And it's not written for junior readers, but neither is it mature-only as far as I recall.

The second one is about a job interview from (perhaps literally) hell.

The third about paranormal investigators.

etc.

They're all a similar gothic feel. And after just googling to check I discover that there's been two (-and-a-half) more published since I last looked. Those'll be a nice Christmas present to myself.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 December, 2023, 10:49:17 AM
I think it was someone on this very thread that recommended Nightshift to me. It's a clever gamebook: no dice, as Fortnight says, but some good puzzles. It's quite dark, I think a bit gory, but not 'adult'. I enjoyed working it out, although you 100% need to map it.

I fully meant to get the next one in the series but delayed at the time after filling my room with FF books, Way of the Tiger, Freeway Warrior and so on. I must remedy that.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 19 December, 2023, 12:53:30 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 December, 2023, 12:06:25 PMHowl of the Werewolf is £100 on ebay at the moment! I asked Jon Green about a reprint in person earlier this year and he sid there's a reluctance to reprint anything that wasn't authored by Steve or Ian, but hopefully that will change at some point. I've also heard it is amazing.

When I suddenly decided to get back into gamebooks about six years ago, there were quite a few copies on ebay. I picked up all the Wizard editions of the newer books I'd missed - HotW was slightly more than the others, but I think I got it for approximately £30 (and maybe not even that much!). Seemed a lot at the time, but in retrospect I'm so glad I pulled the trigger! That's less than I had to part with for Moonrunner, only a few years ago. Crazy how the prices have skyrocketed.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 20 December, 2023, 09:02:26 AM
The prices have gone bonkers since Covid - that's when I got back into these, I wonder if a lot of others did the same?

I think when I was first hoovering up gamebooks on eBay Howl was about £30 too - at that time I only had half a dozen of my own books from childhood and was picking up books like Space Assassin for a couple of quid, and the idea of paying £30 for a second hand book seemed daft. I definitely decided I wouldn't pay more than £20 for a single book (reader, I broke that resolution)
I've got the Wizard version of Curse of the Mummy, but I've essentially given up on HotW and books 55-58 as they are ludicrously expensive. Of those, HotW is the one I'd most like to have a go at - I rate Jon Green's books highly and I've heard a couple of the other rare books are not the best...

I'm not sure why all the reprints have been SJ / IL ones but I can guess. If there's enough of an appetite for these books then I'm sure they'll reprint eventually, although aside from the last two, the Scholastic reprints have been really poor with appalling artwork.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 03 January, 2024, 11:07:20 AM
Got this for Christmas. Turns out my brother knows more about FF than I realised:

(https://i.imgur.com/8igIPbb.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 03 January, 2024, 11:46:00 AM
I often wished you could optionally meet up with an NPC in a gamebook and they'd stay with you til the win if you wanted, instead of getting bumped off after a short while just to keep the play simple to devise.

However, Mungo deserved what he got. I'd planned to dump him at the earliest opportunity anyway. Serves him right for spilling my pint and feeding me lobster. Problem was, I had to help him, otherwise it's a quick-sand-death for me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 03 January, 2024, 02:21:56 PM
What a great gift!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: norton canes on 03 January, 2024, 02:45:24 PM
Really tempted to get the Sorcery set - I played through the first three books when they were released, but never got hold of Crown of Kings. Not sure, but somewhere in the loft I might still have my character card from the end of book III, The Seven Serpents.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Blue Cactus on 05 January, 2024, 07:17:30 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 January, 2024, 11:07:20 AMGot this for Christmas. Turns out my brother knows more about FF than I realised:

(https://i.imgur.com/8igIPbb.jpg)

Incredible!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 07 January, 2024, 12:48:44 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 03 January, 2024, 11:07:20 AM(https://i.imgur.com/8igIPbb.jpg)

Too soon, Boots, too damn soon!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 17 January, 2024, 11:21:32 AM
Vault of the Vampire

I haven't done one of these writeups for a while so it's time to spend ages writing up my playthrough for Vault of the Vampire, by Keith Martin (aka Warhammer and Shadowrun writer Carl Sargent)

This book is set in the hitherto unknown country of Mauristatia in The Old World, which is apparently still on the FF-world of Titan but may as well not be as far as this book goes: it's blatantly a Hammer Horror world with very little fantasy influence, which makes me wonder why they shoehorned it into Titan in the first place. But that matters nothing for this book, which begins with me, a treasure hunter and general rogue, travelling by coach through the fog and icy mists to the miserable hamlet of Leverhelven for no other reason than to seek my fortune.
I disembark at the village inn, the Harts Blood, but am puzzled by its name as this is clearly not stag or deer country, and an innocent inquiry as to this leads to the surly villagers cursing me and turning their backs. Thankfully old Svetlana is on hand to deliver some exposition: the inn was previously called the Hearts Blood and the village is blighted by an evil Count, who lives in the castle on the other side of the forest and keeps disappearing villagers for terrible, unknown ends. Old Svetlana breaks down in tears as she tells me her own granddaughter Nastassia was taken only yesterday by the headless horseman and nobody here has the gumption to go save her!
A shamefaced, one-armed warrior speaks up from a nearby table, confirming her story and saying he would gladly contribute some gold to anyone who could trudge up to the castle to rescue Nastassia / kill off the evil Count. I'm about to nod my agreement when an icy blast of wind causes the tavern door to burst open. Outside in the mist stands a black coach, with a headless driver sitting upon it. Wordlessly, the driver beckons for me to enter...

At this point I'm given the weird choice of  simply ignore the coach driver and strolling off into the forest. The forest seeming to be obviously full of wolves and stuff I clamber with trepidation into the coach ad it sets out on its way through the mists before depositing me at the gates of Castle Heydrich, starkly illuminated by the full moon. There is nobody here to meet me, and a quick skirt around the place shows me only bats flitting about the towers: I can see lights burning within the lower floors castle, but many of the upper rooms windows are covered by thick drapes. With no other way forward I put my shoulder to the heavy main door and push it open with a creak to enter a courtyard with doors to the castle, a tower, and a crypt, among others.
The first door I try opens into a stable containing two large wolves, which rise hungrily at my approach so I quickly shut that door and instead cross the courtyard and pass through a rat infested storeroom into the base of one of the towers. Lighting a lantern as I climb the cobwebbed stairs, I am surprised by the rotting forms of two zombies lurching out of the darkness!
Now VotV has a new FF stat: FAITH, which essentially tracks my 'goodness'. It's well done for a FF novelty statistic: thematic, can go above its initial level and it's tested all over the place in this book, usually to avoid horrible things. Here, my faith is high enough to cause the zombies ot hesitate as they lunge at me, allowing me to nip quickly past them and up to the landing. Lets hear it for being good!
At the top of the stairs is a black door inlaid with silver that whispers for me to go back. I'm too good for that (and there's zombies on the stairs) so I bash it down, taking some wounds in the process, and climb up to a bat-infested belltower. The old brass bells stand silent and unused, but amongst them is a silver bell engraved with the name Siegfried Heydrich and my innate goodness tells me this is a holy bell, so I give it a ring and up pops the ghost of Siegfried himself!
Siegfried's ghost is also full of exposition. It explains that it was the former goodly Count of Castle Heydrich who was murdered by his evil brother Reiner, who I need to sort out. Reiner has hidden Siegfried's holy armour, shield and sword within the castle - the ghost doesn't know where, but he does tip me off to another magic sword, that of his loyal mate Mikhail, which can be found at the base of this very tower. My faith is boosted by this and I head downstairs, avoiding the zombies again, and recover the magic blade. It doesn't boost my combat skills, but it can harm creatures that are immune to conventional weapons, and furthermore it glows in the dark so I can stop worrying about my lantern.
Cheered, I return to the courtyard and try the crypt, which simply radiates evil and furthermore is totally locked. The only option now is to enter the castle proper (a neat feature of this book is that you can wander at will, but after a while the 'dead end' options stop showing up - so at this point I can no longer enter the wolf pen or another room where, on another playthrough, I was trampled to death by a satanic horse. I won't write that one up).

Inside, the castle is well lit but quiet and empty, the entrance hall hung with black and red drapes. I first head west into a cobwebbed storage room, where I pocket some small valuable trinkets, then east into a sumptuous lounge with three portraits: Reiner, looking like the classic Lugosi vampire he obviously is, the darkly beautiful Katarina Heydrich and a defaced portrait of poor old Siegfried. Incensed at Siegfried's poor treatment I storm out, head down the corridor and continue to try doors at random. The first door leads to an alchemist workshop, full of junk and strange concoctions, where I encounter Karl-Heinz, the castle alchemist, who is employed here by Katarina (the counts sister) to prepare potions and the like to keep her youthful appearance (he lets slip she is 76 years old) although he skirts around another, more sinister way she apparently retains her looks. He doesn't seem much help otherwise so I try another door to find a creaky wooden staircase, this time guarded by a terrible and insubstantial wraith. I can nip up the stairs as I'm protected by my faith, but the text says it'd be a good thing to destroy the evil spirit if I have a magical sword so I set myself for combat. This turns out to be a poor idea as the wraith kicks my ass and drains my skill to boot, although I do vanquish it in the end and have to stop for a meal (I came here with plenty of provisions)
The wraith defeated I ascend the rickety stairs to another silver-glyphed door behind which lurks a massive ghoul, but it cowers back from my goodness so I rush past and up into the top of the tower.
On the way up the steps are filthy and covered with mould and fungus, the tower evidently long disused. At the top, a room bathed in moonlight awaits within which is a chair containing a young woman, seemingly asleep and bound to the chair with a mesh of cobweb at her wrists and ankles. She does not seem to wake if spoken to or nudged, and although I'm given the option of trying to wake her with a kiss this seems creepy and unwelcome so I turn away to search the room.. at which point she rises from her chair and lets out a banshee scream! Although named in the text as a Baobhan Sith she's more banshee than fey and she opens the battle by casting a spell over me that weakens me and reduces my combat skill before attacking me with a razor edged crystalline dagger. I triumph, but am left with just 2 points of stamina, weak as I am from her spell and the wraiths chill touch. Time for more provisions! Searching the room afterwards turns up Siegfried's shield, which further boosts my faith but no my skill sadly. However, with such a talisman of good in my hands, can I fail?
Back in the entrance hall I go north into a long hallway and then west into a richly laid dining room. I am investigating here when the tiger skin rug animates and attacks me! Sadly this rug battle is too much for me in my weakened state and I am stupidly slain by a rug. My adventure ends here!

More to come on this one as I (eventually) battle to defeat the evil count. Really good book though this one: atmospheric text, logical choices, and feels immersive and fun to play instead of a slog. Plus art by the late great Martin McKenna - an artist I always associate with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, his hyper detailed, gloomy, sinister artwork is the perfect fit here for conjuring up the required atmosphere. The whole thing, in fact, has a real early WHFB feel to it with Sargent and Mckenna involved.. its not the horrors of Castle Drachenfels, but I was reminded of it in places.. anyway, it's great!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 17 January, 2024, 02:49:33 PM
Good write-up! Every time I read one it makes me want to get back to playing. Then I remember that right now my reading copies are stored where it's awkward to get at them, ready for renovation work. Not impossible, though. I should dig them out.

I should also put ink in my printer and print out my scanned 'n' vectorised adventure sheets too.

I've never been all that keen on the idea of the vampire ones though, since I don't really like vampires as a stock mythological and fictional creature (over-rated). Same with zombies, although that's more because of disillusionment with zombie stories in general - they mostly start with an interesting and/or original setup and then descend into generic running about with the characters being picked off one by one. That said, I'm quite interested in playing Blood of the Zombies. It tends to get forgotten because it's not a proper numbered title in any series. How come Scholastic haven't reprinted that one?

Also, I'd no idea that Martin McKenna had died. Not merely died, but committed suicide. He was only a couple of years older than me.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 17 January, 2024, 04:03:59 PM
I'm a big fan of Keith Martin / Carl Sargent, and he wrote at least one of my favourite FF books. I think this is his first? His work in combination with Martin McKenna's is a treat, I'll have to dig this book out again.

Looking forward to your next write-up!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 January, 2024, 11:59:50 AM
Thanks both. I'll put another part up in a bit, I had to split this into three as I enjoyed it so much. I am also a huge fan of the Sargent / McKenna combo and it sucks they're both no longer with us.
This was a book I'd have avoided as kid as I thought vampires were rubbish, which is a shame because it's so good.

Quote from: Fortnight on 17 January, 2024, 02:49:33 PMGood write-up! Every time I read one it makes me want to get back to playing. Then I remember that right now my reading copies are stored where it's awkward to get at them, ready for renovation work. Not impossible, though. I should dig them out.
Do it! You can get copies of most of the early books pretty cheap second hand as well if not possible.

Quote from: Fortnight on 17 January, 2024, 02:49:33 PMI'm quite interested in playing Blood of the Zombies. It tends to get forgotten because it's not a proper numbered title in any series. How come Scholastic haven't reprinted that one?

Sad to say I would avoid this one like the plague (no pun intended). It's frustratingly difficult (it's actually impossible without cheating), lacks variety (you only fight zombies) and abandons the SKILL / LUCK stats in favour of a new type of combat that is frankly awful. It also feels quite unfinished - as well as the aforementioned impossibility it constantly has the reader find stuff like ammo when ammo isn't tracked. I feel like all of this is probably why it hasn't been reprinted!
It does have some very cool art from Kev Crossley however.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 18 January, 2024, 02:17:42 PM
Vault of the Vampire rounds 2 - 3

This time I roll up a much stronger character, with high skill and good faith but low luck. This seems like the sort of big doofus that'd be useful to send into a vampire castle: pure of heart, broad of shoulder and slightly bereft of imagination. I resolve to begin playing as such.

This time my heroic protagonist therefore decides not to accept the offer of a creepy coach ride up to the castle but to walk right past the coachman and into the woods, trusting in my faith to protect me. Apparently there's an trail up to the castle, and a hut along the way where I can rest. I'll have to pay a ferryman to cross the river and the guy from the inn at the start gives me 2GP to pay the toll.
Off I go into the woods and it's about dawn when an arrow whips past my head and an archer and a bloody great bear burst out of the undergrowth. I'm a trusting soul, so I carefully place my sword on the ground and get an arrow in the shoulder or the trouble. But the archer then apologises - she is Valderesse, a ranger charged with protecting these woods from evil, and she sympathises with my task to defeat the Count who she says is an evildoer who is always kidnapping young ladies to be his slaves or worse and surrounds his castle with unnatural bats and wolves. She gives me two more provisions to add to my already generous supplies and escorts me to the ferry where she bullies the malicious ferryman to take me across free of charge and warns me against him.
Before long I'm over the river and pressing on until I find the foresters hut. I need to sleep as I've been up all night and there's already a guy in there, but he's also a friendly sort and gives me dinner and allows me to rest, restoring the damage I took from the arrow earlier. He also reiterates how evil the Count is and gives me a string of garlic to wear about my neck and tells me to seek out the castellan at the castle, a guy named Lothar, who might be able to aid me. Basically, all this walking through the woods has been tons better than getting the coach! From here it's back to Castle Heydrich as per the playthrough before. It's at this point I get killed by a demon horse.

Glossing over that, I restart from the castle gates. Ignoring the wolves and the horse I go back up the belltower to meet Siegfried and then retrace my steps from the previous game up to the alchemist but after speaking to him try a different route. This time I encounter Wilhelm Heydrich, cousin the count, who is sadly mad as a hatter and can't tell me much although he does mutter about a sword hidden in a book. I then go up for the shield, this time not fighting the wraith (as there was literally no benefit in doing so) and so faring much better against the banshee, although I still need to eat some provisions afterwards.
With the shield on my back and my faith pretty high I return to the main hall (the wraith is not there now, phew) and take another route into the castle kitchens - only to find the cook and his assistants are more rotten zombies! I am strong in my faith and these creatures shy back from me as I go through what must be the most unhygienic kitchen ever and help myself to bread, biscuits, cheese and fruit for even more provisions. My pack is now groaning with food.
Then it's into the dining room, where I am forewarned by the sight of the rotting corpse of my previous character and so this time I am thankfully not killed by a stupid rug. After hacking that to bits I start looting bits of the Counts dinner service as well as a decanter of brandy, which counts as more provisions (but can be taken at the same time as them) and finally a small silver mirror that I find covered by a drape. Knowing my vampire lore I'm not leaving that behind.

The door into what appears to be the main part of the castle is locked and I do not have the key, so I try the last corridor I have yet to explore. There is a shrine here, evidently long forgotten, where I find a book belonging to one Gunther Heydrich, so that goes into my pack too. The final door leads to the room of the castle physician, Doctor Adenauer. He is a peevish but reasonably friendly sort who spends a long time complaining about how underpaid he is by the count (I'm not really sure why the count employs this guy given he is a vampire? But whatever) and finally drops a big hint that if paid he might be able to let slip some info or even let me get further into the castle. There's a choice of questions here and each has a cost: I only have the 2GP I got at the inn and some stuff I've nicked from the castle, but I'm able to barter that firstly for the key to the big door round the corner and then I ask for some info on where to find the count, to which the doc glibly tells me he often hangs out in the family crypt without a hint of 'that's a bit weird'.
Leaving the doctor behind I am able to use his key to get into the library, which contains a lot of books about the Heydrich history. The book confirms Siegfried was a good and noble count and Reiner is an evil and cruel one, but it also interestingly notes that a much older Heydrich ancestor was rumoured to be a 'vampyre'. On the margins someone has written 'I too have attained that blessed state' and that someone's handwriting matches that of Reiner. Obviously the reader has known this for a long time but for my character this would be a shocking reveal! Gasp! Good job Reiner wrote that down though!
I'm about to leave when my eyes are drawn to a small untitled book that contains a marvellous illustration of a beautiful sword. The book has a faint magical glow to it. Could my faith have led me to this book? I put it in my pack with all the looted cheese and stuff.
From there I'm able to head through a secret door in a bookcase into a room where I dispatch two rubbish zombies - my faith is no use this time - and climb up to the castles first floor.

It's something of a maze of rooms up here, but thankfully the book allows me to more or less wander at will. My first act is to enter a simple, sparse room containing a guy who looks suspiciously like the count, but older and dressed simply in white. This is Gunther Heydrich, Reiner's other brother, and a kindly soul. He binds my wounds from the banshee battle and tells me Reiner is an evil thing but he does not have it in him to slay his own brother. I immediately admit I have come here to do that and he quite cheerfully agrees that this needs to be done. He gives me a crucifix and tells me I need to find a stake to ram into Reiner's heart as he sleeps in his coffin - although he says Siegfried's sword should also do the trick. He seems very helpful given we're discussing killing his own brother, but all this is helpful, so I show him the book I found in the shrine. He is delighted to have it back (I guess he is confined to this room? Also, should a crucifix really exist in Titan?) and gives me a healing potion as a reward so now I have healing up to the nines!
It turns out this is a good job as the next chamber I enter I set off a magical trap, both harming and partially blinding me, before I am set upon by something called a minor Thassalos, which is an animated, four armed skeleton that can blast me with freezing beams from its eyes. Being partially blinded, this fight is horrific and I am forced to dig into the cheese and brandy afterwards. Worse, the Thassalos was guarding a chest that I have no way of opening, so this was all for nothing!
The next door I try leads to a darkened room containing a slab of black marble draped in red and black sheets upon which rests a coffin. I'm assailed by an evil mist as I enter, but drive it away and once that is done, upend the coffin and smash it with my sword. Flush with righteous energy, I give thanks to my gods. That's the Count sorted, right? I gloomily note that the text says to note I have destroyed ONE of the Counts coffins.
The next door I randomly try reveals a lavish suite of rooms, opulently decorated with gem-studded trinkets and expensive silks. Here, lounging a throne-like chair, is the seductive and sensuous Katarina Heydrich, who rebukes me for not knocking but invites me to enter. She offers me a drink and straight away asks if I am here to kill Reiner. I see little use in lying - firstly I'm an honest, simple crusader type and secondly, is she really going to believe I'm wandering around here at random, tooled up with a sword and a bag of looted provisions? I elect to keep quiet about Nastassia (and also about showing her any of the holy stuff I've collected) and instead I admit I am here to bump of Reiner and she laughs in delight. It seems she is keen to succeed him as ruler of the castle and suggests I obtain a silver tipped stake from Lothar, the Castellan, who she describes as her deadly enemy and a man who is plotting against her - indeed, she begs me to kill Lothar and take the stake before heading on to deal with Reiner. It's obvious this lady is both evil and crazed, but I nod in agreement, not wishing to anger her. and she sends me off to his room with a wicked smile.

Lothar, the castellan, greets me warmly when I enter. Here I am asked if I have been charmed into killing him, which means I have dodged a bullet somewhere! I have no intent in murdering this fellow, but as I sit down I am racked with terrible agonies. Lothar gives me a drink to help me recover. He easily deduces that I must have agreed to aid Katarina, and says one cannot give their word to a sorceress, even if intending to break it, without suffering for it. Weakly I agree. Luckily Lothar trusts me enough to take me into his confidence. He says although Katarina is dangerous, he and Gunther could probably handle her, however Reiner is beyond him. He does give me the silver tipped stake and a ring of keys that will allow me access into any room in the castle bar the crypt: the key to the crypt, he says, is in Reiner's bedroom to the South. Finally he gives me a vague clue about the count hiding something in one of the rooms and muttering 'forward and back' to himself and chuckling about it. With Lothar's best wishes and the keys in hand I bid him farewell and exit, onto a balcony overlooking the courtyard, and after a couple of close shaves with some animated armour and horde of rats (I run away from both, snagging a magic ring the process that heals me a little after winning a battle) I find my way to the Counts chambers.
The counts reception room contains wine and delicious-looking chocolate biscuits that I am invited to try, but I elect not to (I later looked at these and they are as horrible as you might think) and instead pass into his living room where I am attacked by a vampire bat and that most fearsome of vampires, a vampire weasel! In this combat I fight the bat whilst the weasel nips at my legs - unfortunately for me it latches on quickly and starts draining my blood so by the time I've done for the bat and shaken off the weasel I'm feeling a bit depleted and not even the idea of Reiner going to the effort of creating a vampire weasel can lift my spirits.
Finally, the Counts bedroom awaits. Inside are a number of portraits of the Counts horrible vampire ancestors and another coffin. Fearfully I lift the lid but it is unoccupied, so I smash it as I did the first. Next, I turn my attention to his desk, looting some gold and jewellery from it and then, after dodging a trap, finding some holy water that the count has stupidly put in his desk in his own bedroom. What a dumbass! The last treasure, hidden beneath various papers, is the heavy key to the crypt.
As I am thanking my gods I feel a malign presence seeping into the room. The Count? No - it is some spectral servant of his, manifesting from smoke to slay me for my intrusion. This fight is super hard, and the spectre drains me of my life essence, leaving me a lifeless husk on the floor. My adventure ends here!

Final part to follow where I finally give the Count what he deserves!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 18 January, 2024, 03:22:42 PM
I love that there's a vampire weasel!

Quoteshould a crucifix really exist in Titan?
Maybe it's a lower case t for Titan?

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 18 January, 2024, 03:51:31 PM
Another excellent journey journal :D I'm not saving myself from spoilers, but I won't re-read any walkthroughs prior to commencing my own adventures once I've donned my hiking boots and worked up a thirst for ale.

As soon as I became clued in to the fact that they'd retconned the FF series into a single world of Titan (for the most part) I'd basically extended it in my own mind to presume that Titan was Earth of the far far future after a number of apocalyptic events, but with some remnants of our modern day lurking buried underground in random lost caches.

I yearn for the day Zagor's long forgotten extra-super-secret stash of treasure is found and reveals the marvels of an old electrical plug, an unopened can of sausages & beans, and a publicity photo of Barry Chuckle.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 January, 2024, 12:10:51 PM
Quote from: Richard on 18 January, 2024, 03:22:42 PMMaybe it's a lower case t for Titan?

This would be a world class blag!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 January, 2024, 12:26:05 PM
Vault of the Vampire Rounds 4 -6

I restart and get killed by the spectre again. Weak!
Seeing no other way forward, I arbitrarily set my skill to 12 and finally overcome the thing, although my skill is reduced to 11 by its life-draining touch.
Something I liked about this book next: it asks me if I previously defeated the Thassalos, and then simply takes me back to the room without me actually needing to waste a lot of time retracing my steps. I have the with the Castellan's keys, but to my annoyance the chest still will not open. It turns out there is a puzzle on the lock, the clue to which I had before from Lothar. I won't spoil it here but it is an absolute bastard of a puzzle because even though it doesn't take too long to crack the process, it still takes an ages to work out the inscription because it is written thematically and so quite long. This would have oufoxed younger me, but adult me eventually gets through it and within the chest I find Siegfrieds enchanted chainmail shirt. This boosts all my stats (restoring my weakened skill in combat) and without further ado the book takes me straight to the crypt.

Behind the heavy iron door, the crypt seems long deserted, its stairs covered in dust and grime and rats scurrying in the darkness, just beyond the light thrown by my enchanted blade. Small piles of bones, horribly human looking, are scattered about. Descending I discover the place is extensive, containing a number of smaller tombs leading off a main corridor. I must check them all: the first, that of the colourfully named Boris the Drunkard, contains an ordinary skeleton and more restorative brandy. The second, that of Chancellor Schmidt, contains a foul and rotting ghoul that has been trapped here for centuries! This is another vicious battle, as the ghoul rot imposes a skill penalty, and I take a beating. Wiping ghoul blood from my sword and drinking Boris's fine brandy I next try the tomb of Doctor Faustus. This one, as well as a sarcophagus, contains walls of shelves with preserved heads and limbs and other gruesome things. I steel myself to begin searching through this chamber of horrors and am rifling through the shelves when a slippery bubbling sound causes me to spin about. Oozing from the sarcophagus is a greenish yellow, slimy mess, within which I can just make out a horribly distorted human face. I struggle, but in vain as the necrotic slime that was once the doctor overwhelms me, suffocating me before breaking me down and absorbing my corpse. Dead again!

I feel close to the end, so I just restart at the crypt entrance and this time don't try the chancellor or the doctors tombs (the first, certainly, had nothing of use) and instead try one of the two unmarked tombs. The first contains rows and rows of simple sarcophagi, all unadorned, unmarked and identical, and as I look upon them a chill grips me and from the darkness I behold a spectral figure of a gaunt young woman gliding towards me.
There's been no faith check here to ward of evil as with other ghosts, so I stand my ground and the spirit imparts its sad tale. It was, it says, once a young apprentice wizard named Jandor who fell victim to the Katarina Heydrich, bled to death for her dark rituals: all these tombs contain a victim of the Heydrich family. She offers me her spell-storing ring to aid in seeking revenge for all those buried here and grimly I agree. The spell contains three random spells: my first is a Luck spell that is totally useless to me, the second one that boosts my damage threefold in the first round of combat only (if I miss, the spell is wasted) and the third one that will destroy any one skeletal enemy.
The ghost fades away and when I exit the crypt to my disgust I can see something beginning to dribble under the door of Faustus's crypt so I run through the remaining door and find myself facing another Thassalos. This one is a major Thassalos and given how hard the minor one is this is very bad news, but I've just got the shatter spell from Jandor and so simply blow it up without breaking a sweat. Thanks Jandor!
The Thassalos was protecting a further set of steps - three in fact, descending even deeper into the cold earth. I take the northernmost and it opens into a crypt lit by holy light. Within rests the body of Siegfried, and as I stand in contemplation his ghost once again appears before me.
Siegfried's ghost is super useful. He gives me some holy water, and heals all my wounds. Finally he indicates the book I took from the library and tells me his sword is kept within the book, imprisoned there by Reiner's blood magic. Only blood magic can unseal it, so I must bleed myself to release it. My faith is strong, so with a deep breath I open my vein and let my blood pour into the goblet as the ghost has indicated.
I come to with a shock - I have almost fainted through blood loss, but the ghost is there and my faith is strong. Where the book once was now rests Siegfried's holy longsword, glowing with white light. This sword gives me a big skill boost and doubly so against vampires, and my faith and luck stats have all had a boost too. I now feel invincible!
Finally, as directed by Siegfried, I enter the crypt of Reiner himself. The room is vast, lit with baleful red light, filled with fantastical teak and marble decorations and heavy drapes, and at the end a staircase upon with the Count himself stands waiting, a chained and crying woman behind him - Nastassia. As I step forward the count fixes me with his hypnotic gaze, but my faith is strong enough to resist. Thinking quickly, I whip my mirror from my pack and he recoils from it, giving me a window to act. I hurl my holy water at him, the first vial setting him alight and inflicting terrible damage upon him. This slows him down enough for me to chuck the second vial at him too and I'm feeling pretty confident and I draw my anti-vampire sword and advance upon him until I see his actual stats. Despite my huge bonuses the Count is one of the hardest FF fights I have ever seen (he's statistically better than Razaak, although not as deadly) and he pulverises me for several rounds in a row, beating me back down the stairs and into a corner, bloodied and desperate before the dice turn my way and I rally and gain the upper hand. Once his stamina drops to a certain level however he simply turns into smoke and drifts away behind some wall hangings!
I could stop him with a spell, but I don't have it so instead am given a choice of several actions to take in the moments I have. There's no time to eat, but I neck Gunther's healing potion and the rest of the brandy to recover my wounds and then selflessly cut Natassia free, telling her to run. Before she can the Count is back, his stamina boosted back up, and the battle is joined again. After a couple of hits on him he changes tactic, trying to bite me instead of simply tearing me apart: this does more damage but reduces his skill and allows me to finish him off - or do I? As I run him through the Count collapses with a shriek only to once again transform himself to mist. I'm asked how many of the counts coffins I've destroyed - two is enough, for instead of drifting up and out of the crypt the mist-form count seeps behind a wall hanging to another coffin where I throw back the lid to see him slowly regenerating. With the crucifix held aloft over the coffin I drive the stake into his heart. Black blood sprays from the wound and with a final ghastly cry the count crumbles away to dust.
The voice of Nastassia rouses me, urging me to stay alive. She flings her arms about me, thanking me for aiding her (I  react awkwardly I suspect, being a simple holy man) and binds my wounds. But when I say I am glad to have saved her from the Count she shakes her head. It was not Reiner who meant to kill her but his sister - Katarina! My stomach sinks. I whirl about and she is there in the crypt, a smile upon her lips.
Katarina's dazzling green eyes lock upon mine, trying to force me into submission. It's time for one last faith check, and my faith holds firm. Breaking her gaze I lunge forward and she curses and draws a dagger to fight me. I try the mirror trick again but she simply laughs and slashes at me - she is no vampire, after all! This is a nasty fight although easier than the Count but hard going - at one point my stamina drops so low Nastassia grabs a weapon and help, but with her skill of 6 she isn't a factor - nice touch though. Eventually the final blow is struck and Katarina falls to the floor. As she lies there dying her appearance ripples and changes, from beautiful sorceress to the wizened hag that she truly was.
At last it is over. With me leaning on Nastassia for support we stagger from the crypt and into the daylight at last. Turning back I get a last glimpse of Siegfried's ghost, saluting me as I leave. VICTORY!




Obviously loads to like about this book. As well as Keith Martin / Carl Sargents atmospheric writing and the superb artwork, it was just fun to play: there's a lot of freedom to wander, with most locations available in any order until you move on to the next segment of the castle, so it rewards exploration whilst there's not the fear of missing some crucial item. Along with that freedom was the fact that whilst there are essential items you don't need all of them (you need the stake OR the magic sword plus and the crucifix OR the shield). The count battle is brutal but there's a lot of mitigating factors that make it easier so when you do get there you feel like you played well, rather than just hit a shopping list, so to speak. Choices on the whole feel reasoned and not random, so when you win there's a real sense of achievement. I hugely enjoyed it.

On the downside the combats are TOUGH. You can skip a lot of the weaker enemies with a good faith score but there's a lot of Skill 10 opponents or equivalent in this book. It's quite telling all my deaths came through combat. I would say a skill of 10 is the absolute minumum you need for this but less than 12 will make it very difficult. The hard combat is sort of offset by the huge amount of healing available though. A good faith score also essential, but this can climb rapidly as you play (my faith at the end weas 15, making faith checks a breeze).
There's also an 'affliction' rule where you can acquire various, er, afflictions and you're periodically asked if you have them, especially lycanthropy. I could not find a way to contract this at all, and although it looks like there's a werewolf in the forest I'm not sure how you encounter it (maybe killing the ranger?) so it seemed a fair few paragraphs dedicated to asking about this went to waste.
Finally I think perhaps the book would have been better if it'd gone full Hammer Horror - stuff like the crucifix seems out of place, and by making a few small changes like ditching the wizard it could be another House of Hell 'real world' setting. But that's a tiny moan about an otherwise excellent book.






Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 19 January, 2024, 03:44:09 PM
Great write-up! It does sound like a fun book, I'll look at it later. But first, my new copy of Nightshift arrived today, so I'll check that out first!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 20 January, 2024, 03:09:36 PM
Well, I can only stand for so long in the onslaught of such entertaining playthroughs! I dug out my reading copies. I could only get to the first one by getting all of them out, so bugger it, I'll get them all out and then work out where I want to start.

Dug out an old shelf and found a corner to stand it in.
(https://i.imgur.com/JReNzcf.jpg)
There is supposed to be an image here. First time trying an image, so we'll see if it works.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 January, 2024, 11:59:50 AMSad to say I would avoid this one like the plague (no pun intended). It's frustratingly difficult (it's actually impossible without cheating), lacks variety (you only fight zombies) and abandons the SKILL / LUCK stats in favour of a new type of combat that is frankly awful.
Shame about this. I had a bit of a read-up on its quirks just after you posted.
The one place I found that mentions anything relevant seems to suggest that the number of zombies you kill depends on the roll of the dice. Seems like a poor idea, but I guess I'll have to play it to find out.
A quick skim through the book shows that you're told how many zombies there are in any given fight, and the last section indicates that the number of zombies killed determines your success, so I'd assumed that the winning route is just wherever you encounter the correct number of zombies. But you suggest there's some other bug?

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 January, 2024, 11:59:50 AMIt does have some very cool art from Kev Crossley however.
And I like Greg Staples's cover too!

Quote from: Richard on 19 January, 2024, 03:44:09 PMmy new copy of Nightshift arrived today, so I'll check that out first!
Interested to hear how you get on with it. The downside of being recommended something is that there's a danger of overhype.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 20 January, 2024, 05:45:22 PM
That's a thing of beauty!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 20 January, 2024, 07:04:19 PM
They look nice from a distance, but some of them are in pretty poor condition. This was one of the requirements for them to be a reading copy. Given how collectable they have become I didn't want to play with a near perfect one. Some of them are still too good a condition really - it's really hard to find a copy of Sky Lord or Daggers of Darkness in crap enough condition, and I just can't deliberately allow myself to damage a book.

The puffin fell off my Warlock (not a sentence I'd thought I'd be writing when I woke up this morning). I damaged it taking the books out of their cubby hole and I had to glue it back on before taking the photo. Despite this level of care I still forgot that I'd taken Blood of the Zombies out for the aforementioned quick skim through and forgot to put it back.

I've now printed out my adventure sheets for the first 42 books (A4 so I've lots of space). Doing the rest as I type.

Now I have no excuse not to do playthoughs!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 21 January, 2024, 01:03:45 AM
I look forward to reading them!

Boots - you pick up lycanthropy at paragraph 266.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Doomlord66 on 21 January, 2024, 11:37:14 PM
Apologies if this has been covered or mentioned before.
My foray into game books was the Grailquest series. I hated the name given to your character- Pip - as I didn't think it sounded very heroic.

Also tried a game book called Maelstorm but didn't like the format, found it too over complicated.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 January, 2024, 12:28:13 AM
I've recently discovered that the FF combat system got only slightly tweaked and then adopted by an unconventional* sci-fi RPG called Troika! (https://www.troikarpg.com/resources)

I'm not very familiar with it, but it does have a character class called Befouler of Ponds (you're a priest that pisses in ponds).

Combat initiative is determined randomly per round, which means that if luck runs against you, you can be killed without ever getting a chance to hit back. (Or maybe you were trying to, but kept missing - or got your sword stuck between some cobbles, or something.) Maybe better to avoid fights? Or hide in that pond. Or not.

* It's been described as post-OSR. Not really great for combat/stat hounds, or long campaigns with precious characters.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 22 January, 2024, 12:51:39 AM
I never tried the Grailquest books. I heard both good things about them and bad - that they're fun, humorous, and tolerant of game-play "shortcuts", but also badly constructed and full of errors.

I do have Maelstrom, but never really played it as the rules take up most of the book and I couldn't be bothered to read them all to even find out what type of gamebook it is.

Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 22 January, 2024, 12:28:13 AMTroika! (https://www.troikarpg.com/resources)
That's a bad website.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 January, 2024, 04:32:04 AM
Quote from: Fortnight on 22 January, 2024, 12:51:39 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 22 January, 2024, 12:28:13 AMTroika! (https://www.troikarpg.com/resources)
That's a bad website.

Bad how?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 22 January, 2024, 05:01:00 AM
Just that it doesn't resize based on browser windows size, it has a scrollable frame inside the scrollable main page making mousewheel scrolling a pain, the menu is transparent so you can't clearly see the options. It's very rudimentary. And there's a goddamn pop up asking to sign up to something you have no idea whether you want or not because you've only been there 8 seconds! A trivial complaint, but as a former web developer I can't help but get annoyed :D
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 January, 2024, 05:30:43 AM
Oh, right! Yes, it is a bad website. I am reminded of this old chestnut (https://old.homestarrunner.com/sbsite/).

I find that web usability in general has sort of fallen of a cliff and been eaten by scavengers. But then I'm still using a PC, so am one of the few. I will fade into the darkness, along with keyboards, and everything will be replaced by "Siri - tell the AI to make me a song that I want to listen to!"  :'(
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 January, 2024, 12:25:28 PM
I'm familiar with Troika - it's one of those OSR games that seems to be built specificially for people who are very deep into grognardy. The rules seem to be deliberately written to be clunky and tending towards high turnovers of characters rather than campaigns and the like. The setting at least is fairly unique.
I'm never sure what the deal is with these kind of games when more streamlined modern rulesets exist that crucially you can houserule to your own requirements. Having met people who love games like this, it all feels a bit gatekeepery tbh, as a backlash to the hobby becoming popular and letting in loads of new people that they don't like.

Within the metal scene (possibly other music scenes too?) there's been a swing towards putting stuff on cassette again. As far as I can see it's a mix of nostalgia and elitism: backlash against digital music and CDs that fetishises a format thats crap and we moved on from for good reason. Cassettes don't even have the nice bits that vinyl does (giant artwork, lovely smell, weird ritualistic nature of having to go to the effort of putting one on) and their only benefit is that they're very small and portable, which doesn't stack against modern music formats, so for me its very much regression for the sake of regression. But anyway - I find games like this a bit like that.

I've got Advanced Fighting Fantasy around somewhere, which is also pretty bad for a roleplaying game ruleset, but may have been a good gateway system. I know I ripped off the Riddling Reaver plots for other games as a kid!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 January, 2024, 12:29:36 PM
Also what a magnificent collection there Fortnight! Some of those books are very vaulable now: Deathmoor alone was selling for about £250 when I made my last ebay pass at finishing my collection, and Revenge of the Vampire was about £500. I'm definitely envious.

They look wonderful all lined up like that.

Quote from: Doomlord66 on 21 January, 2024, 11:37:14 PMMy foray into game books was the Grailquest series.

I had a couple of these as a kid and really liked them. The daft, convivial style of writing was lovely and they weren't very hard either. I also understand they're not very good as the series continues though.

Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 22 January, 2024, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: Fortnight on 20 January, 2024, 03:09:36 PMThe one place I found that mentions anything relevant seems to suggest that the number of zombies you kill depends on the roll of the dice. Seems like a poor idea, but I guess I'll have to play it to find out.
A quick skim through the book shows that you're told how many zombies there are in any given fight, and the last section indicates that the number of zombies killed determines your success, so I'd assumed that the winning route is just wherever you encounter the correct number of zombies. But you suggest there's some other bug?

Yeah. In every combat you face x zombies, roll a dice for your weapon and kill y zombies, and then you take 1 damage for each one left standing. To complete the book you have to have killed every single zombie, otherwise when you get to the end you lose.

That in itself isn't a lot of fun, but the problem with it is that it's not actually possible to survive the book even with max stamina. I understand the reprint allows you 20d6+20 stamina which is still not enough, even if you ignore the max stamina cap (the book doesn't actually say you can't go over initial stamina). There's too much damage to take, and not enough healing.
I think I ignored my stamina in the end and finished on -30 or thereabouts. It could be playable with some modding, but the whole book feels like an unplaytested, botched attempt to update FF and it wasn't fun to play.

I did a quick review of it somewhere on this thread where I moaned in more detail, I think. If you do give it a go I hope you have a better experience that I did!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: karlos on 22 January, 2024, 03:35:13 PM
Thanks for the recommendations, chaps
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 January, 2024, 03:44:46 PM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 January, 2024, 12:25:28 PMCassettes don't even have the nice bits that vinyl does

So, you didn't like rewinding them with a pencil? Or when they snapped? Or got chewed up?
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 22 January, 2024, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 22 January, 2024, 05:30:43 AMI find that web usability in general has sort of fallen of a cliff and been eaten by scavengers. But then I'm still using a PC, so am one of the few. I will fade into the darkness, along with keyboards, and everything will be replaced by "Siri - tell the AI to make me a song that I want to listen to!"
There's a silent army of us determined obstinate old-skool desktop, keyboard & mouse users out there. You can't do anything significant on a phone - it's only for the social media-obsessed layabouts. And yet there are websites that cater for only phone users. "It'll work fine on desktop" they say, and it works, but like crap with a massive waste of screen real-estate. Bah. etc
There's a new world out there and not all of it is good. My newest PC doesn't have an optical drive. Doesn't even have a bay for one.  :(

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 January, 2024, 12:25:28 PMWithin the metal scene (possibly other music scenes too?) there's been a swing towards putting stuff on cassette again. As far as I can see it's a mix of nostalgia and elitism: backlash against digital music and CDs that fetishises a format thats crap and we moved on from for good reason. Cassettes don't even have the nice bits that vinyl does (giant artwork, lovely smell, weird ritualistic nature of having to go to the effort of putting one on) and their only benefit is that they're very small and portable, which doesn't stack against modern music formats, so for me its very much regression for the sake of regression.
I buy a lot of electronic music and there there's certainly a revival in cassettes that has been getting gradually stronger for a few years now. I tend to buy CDs when I can because I like to get a physical format. I'll also get a different physical format if there's something I want that's not available in CD or lossless download. I use bandcamp a lot so almost everything comes as digital download, and mostly I'm happy with that. I get the physical for collectability too, if I fancy it. For certain artists.
I bought this (https://daisrecords.bandcamp.com/merch/dais-x-retrospekt-collab-limited-cp-81-cassette-player-and-compilation) on preorder. No download version, so I had to get the tape, plus it's a nice package (not cheap, plus postage!). Then bloody qobuz went and sold a download version for a few quid. Bastards.

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 22 January, 2024, 12:37:59 PMIt could be playable with some modding, but the whole book feels like an unplaytested, botched attempt to update FF and it wasn't fun to play.
Sounds like I may decide to play Blood of the Zombies with d20 where it expects d6. Either when rolling stats or in combat. Or both!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 January, 2024, 10:52:36 AM
Fangs of Fury

The plot is that your city, Zamarra, is under siege from the forces of Ostragoth the Grim (who doesn't appear in this book) and his wizard Jaxartes (who does). You're a generic rank and file soldier who has been volunteered to break out of the city and relight a magic fire in a volcano (The titular Fangs of Fury) that will power up some big dragon-shaped defensive weapons on Zamarra and defeat the besiegers. Zamarra has 14 walls and as well as the magic torch of relighting you're given a bracelet that will tell you when all 14 walls are broken through, at which point it will kill you. This is a weird touch as knowing the walls are down and everyone you know and love is dead should be enough for a game over condition and it feels like the killer bracelet would be better served if you were some kind of, say, captured master thief that might be better suited to sneaking out of the siege and into the volcano rather than some random mook who didn't even know what the mission was until the bracelet was on his wrist: it makes the rulers of Zamarra look pretty dumb for entrusting this mission to literally the first guy who stuck his hand up for a random task.

The city masters give you some black magic cubes and a pack of food and then you're straight down a tunnel and off you go. After wandering around in the tunnels for a bit I dug myself out by the coast where the enemy war fleet is at anchor. Some guy spots me and enlists me into moving a catapult, which I go along with so as not to get noticed before an orc takes me and some other conscripts off to load some prisoners onto some boats. I have to choose a boat, which is randomly leaky and sinks, but I swim to the other one (its the end for the prisoners in that boat, sadly) and we land at an island where prisoners are building siege weapons (not sure why this is not being done not on an island away from the fighting which will then necessitate shipping all the siege engines back to the mainland, but there you go. It meant there could be a boat bit!).

On the island I'm watching prisoners chop wood. One of them runs off but gets caught by a goblin: I intervene, kill the goblin, and then the prisoner runs off and nothing more is made of this. Instead I go back to the prisoners where an obvious monk guy is chopping wood like a madman. He asks me to join him in a clump of bushes where he tells me I'm the chosen torchbearer of prophecy and some other nonsense. He's a monk of XEN, which is a secret religion and saying its name means you must die in a year and a day (this seems a harsh religious stricture) which of course he tells me, dooming himself to some mysterious death. He says that Jaxartes the evil wizard is killing his order who guard the flames at the Fangs of Fury and I should look out for the Wazzari Silent Knights who are a bunch of knights sworn to silence and also part of this religion and can help me. Then some goblins appear and I charge off into the bushes without another thought.
(During this very strange interlude the monk also tells me that whenever I see an illustration in the book I should look for white cubes in it, and if I see any I can pick up D6 white cubes. More on this later.)

I run down some random paths in the wood until I find a shack with an old man in it who asks me to come in and then gives me a bowl of beans to eat which explode in my face and traps me in chains of smoke before some orcs jump off his roof, kill him and capture me. This sort of weirdness is par for the course with this book and all takes place in a single paragraph.

The orcs lead me off for a bit, then start dividing up some loot from the old mans hut. I easily get them to start fighting each other over unfair division of the spoils: they kill each other, then a wizard turns up in a magic chariot, tries to charm me back with a spell, then gives up  and vanishes and I run off again. WTF.
I then arrive at a port, stand in some random lines, board a ship but after several hours that ship is attacked by pirates, sinks, and I escape on a raft. That bit all happens in a single paragraph too (two if you include a sailor climbing onto my raft and attacking me for no reason)
Eventually I wash up on some land and enter a village where I take the time to chill on a bench and see a little girl walking past drop her bag of rice. I choose to help her pick it all up, she gives the rice to a waiting cart driver (who I assume did not help with the rice), runs into school, gets caned for being late, I run in and cut the teachers cane in half and then tell him why the girl was late: he apologises, then a trumpet sounds and everyone runs out. Yeah, this all happens in one paragraph too. If you're getting a bit sick of this series of random encounters where I don't have much agency, I was too at this point.

So anyway - the little girl is the ward of an elderly monk, who is a member of the Wazarri (but not a silent knight) who makes me play a dice game to see how enlightened I am. I end up moderately enlightened so he gives me access to the secret alphabet of the Wazarri (a bit like semaphore - it's shown in an illustration that I have to refer back to a LOT) and then as a bonus also tells me he follows XEN, guaranteeing his on death which is a shame as I already knew about that, before giving me some black cubes and sending me on my way!
I'm told there's evil riders on the roads so I head into the forest. Here the Wazarri alphabet comes in handy as there are some clues to the endless left or right choices I've been making at random, some of which give me some more black cubes. I'm then ambushed by a giant 2 headed fire breathing serpent. Given the choice of fight or flight I choose the latter and am able to run through the flames unharmed although one of my black cubes crumbles to dust as I do. The black cubes are anti-fire cubes! The serpent isn't mentioned again so presumably doesn't give chase.

Onwards through the forest I find a mound of earth with an inscribed block of stone on top and a neat little number puzzle, which I solve (its XEN related) and a ghost appears and tells me to follow the forest path North but not to cross the bridge and look for the warrior with the first of fire. Alright!
Unhelpfully the path choices are left, right and straight on. I assume I'm already going north and continue straight, which seems to be right as I reach the bridge, cross the stream and then spot a fist made of fire rising into the sky over a hill, so I charge over there and find a lady knight battling some Garks. I pile in and help, and she wordlessly thanks me (for she is of the non-speaking knights) and leads me through some secret paths to a hidden fort, surrounded by a ring of fire and beyond that, surrounded by an army of goblins and dark elves!

The knight (which the book refers to as 'the girl') takes me through the flames - which cooks a couple of opportunistic goblins who make a rush for it behind us -  and inside I'm dismayed to find there's only about half a dozen knights, some squires and children, all quite badly beat up. Thankfully the squires aren't sworn to silence so after telling me I'm the chosen one etc one leads me to the head knight, who is sitting in the middle of three chairs and indicates I should sit in one. I must have missed the clue to this (if there is one) but I choose one at random and he is pleased because I'm told I've fulfilled the prophecy of Te-Okin and now get to look at a map of some catacombs (this is another page I need to refer back to a lot) with some odd symbols on it that will apparently lead me to the Fangs of Fury.  I'm then given some food and led out and told to go to a nearby flat topped mountain. Sadly I don't have 'elf wings' when the text prompts me (I am disappointed to have missed this!) and so have an arduous climb up. At the top, the mountain has three large holes in it forming the point of a triangle and I'm prompted to randomly jump down one. Ok.

This leads me into the catacomb part of the book. It's essentially a maze, with various chambers each containing wooden blocks of various shapes and some clues in Wazarri semaphore. It takes me some time to get my bearings, despite flicking back to the map illustration, but to cut a long story short I eventually manage to recover all the blocks I need and a key. I also find a room with some poorly described vials in it. I open one and some black mist rushes out and strangles me. GAME OVER.

I'm not impressed by this random Deathtrap-Dungeon-esque death and have not been enjoying the book enough to restart so I just flick back to a previous paragraph, don't open the vials and use the blocks to open a door to reveal the fangs of fury at last!
The fangs are described as five upraised teeth around a smoking volcanic centre. I'm also told that Jaxartes himself is here! I randomly follow a path into the volcano until some Wazzari text keeps me on the right track (at this point my elf wings would have melted in the heat, sad days). I collect some more black cubes and face the first tough fight of the game (A mage warrior of Jaxartes with Skill 8, but I'm at -2 skill as I don't have a wand sword. Luckily I have tons of provisions).
With that goon dispatched I enter a large chamber with seven entrances. 2 monks suddenly appear and ask how many white cubes I have, as that determines how enlightened I am (ok) and also which path I may take to the heart of the volcano. I don't have that many and have to go via door three, where I solve a pretty simple XEN-based puzzle and go through a door into the next bit of the volcano. Easy! More black cubes are needed here to avoid stamina damage but I have tons of these.

I then enter a tomb, where several monks are interred: scattered about them are the charred remains of Jaxartes mage warriors. An ape monster leaps out of a passage, says it is 'Grokkar, defender of the tombs of the dead' and shoots some fireballs at me. My black cubes do nothing here for some reason and its down to luck tests. I get blown up but don't die, Grokkar isn't mentioned again, off I go.
Finally, I reach the ornate entrance to the furnace: the centre of the mountain. Jaxartes is there, chuckling away, and the flame has been extinguished (this is presented as a big shock to me, even though it is the entire point of the quest). He makes an evildoer speech, grows to giant size and begins hurling sheets of fire at me. But wait! Suddenly a giant cube pops out of the ground with fifty locks on it. I've got a key with a number on it, so I put it into the lock (presumably not being burned up by Jaxartes). The flame rekindles and Jaxartes burns to death in a huge random anticlimax! Yay!

I collapse and when I awake I am in a cool room overlooking a green valley with a girl wiping my forehead. I ask where I am and she tells me I'm in the Wazarri monastery and gives me a crystal ball where I can see the 'fangs of fury' on the city walls turn into dragons and burn Ostragoths army to bits. The winner! The bracelet 'suddenly' (there are so many 'suddenly' moments in this book) turns from an explosive tag into a bracelet studded with precious stones! I then go back to the city and get promoted to commander in chief and all is well. THE END.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 31 January, 2024, 10:53:15 AM
So I groaned inwardly when I saw this was another Luke Sharp book and overall I wasn't very impressed with this one: although it's better than Star Strider and Chasms of Malice, it wasn't as good as Daggers of Darkness. It's not a crap book, it's just a bit... meh. Even the title and cover artwork are a bit uninspiring and I'm fairly sure I'll have forgotten 90% of this within a few months.

The story moves from encounter to encounter with rapid pace, which means it crams in a lot of interesting ideas but also is part of the problem, and the whole thing just doesn't hang together well. It doesn't help that his prose is quite curt and there's more than a few occasions where you're doing something and then 'suddenly orcs jump off the roof' or 'suddenly a bird takes the document out your hands'. It's a bit like playing D&D with a younger sibling who feels the need to jazz things up every 5 minutes: the story leaps about so much that it feels like nothing really makes sense. A good example is when I was captured by orcs who start arguing, then 'suddenly' a 'figure' appears in a chariot and tries to capture me, and when I beat the test the figure 'sat down exhausted' and then vanished and its onto the next bit. Who was the guy here? What happened to his chariot? It feels like a lot of ideas thrown at you at random, but so tersely described its's just a connection of 'this happens! That happens!' stuff hurled at you with almost no context.

The cube thing is a good idea, if abstract: however I had about 20 black cubes and only needed a handful and although I didn't have many white cubes it was pretty easy to offset this. The coded language thing on the other hand was a pain, it was annoying to have to keep flicking back to the image to decode things. The maze was also annoying until I figured it out (another image to have to keep flicking back to) - without the map it would have been a nightmare, because exits are listed as 'exit 1, exit 2' and so on rather than north, east, west etc. The mechanic to keep track of the walls falling seemed a bit pointless, as I never got anywhere near losing even half of the walls around Zamarra.

As with Luke Sharp FF there's a lot of 'choose x or y' bits with no context, often something fairly innocuous (twice I had to choose between two identical queues of people) than impacts things. There were also a lot of his favoured 'roll 2 dice to see how fast your horse and the other guys is' or 'roll to see how many rocks hit you' mechanics which personally I am not a fan of. One part had me test my luck three times in succession to dodge fireballs and failing all three (likely, as each luck test reduces your luck by one and there are quite a lot of luck tests) is auto death (the monster that fires the fireballs at you appears from nowhere, does this and then vanishes, another good example of what I didn't like about this one)

I also had a bit of issue with all the female characters being described as girls. A couple of times I aided warrior women from an attack and the text was all 'the girl' thanks you etc. I know it's an older book, but this annoyed me.

Art is by Dave Gallagher and it's a mixed bag: some images are very cool, others aren't the strongest. It's very old school fantasy art in nature (think early D&D etc) but when put against other FF art, it doesn't really impress. However.. the concept of finding the white cubes in the art is a really good one, and in some of the pictures these are very well hidden. Once you know what to look for this leads to you studying the images a bit more and therefore getting more out of it. This is one of the best uses of art I have encountered in a FF book.

Mainly negative then, but that said, the book does have a lot of quirky (if rushed) encounters and having had a couple of other attempts at it, there's no true path or shopping list and you can just meander your own way to the end without much worry - especially as its pretty easy with no really difficult battles although you do need a strong luck, or a potion of luck. My stamina was never in danger, despite regular losses, due to lots of provisions and restorative aid.
There being no 'big bad' is a bit anticlimactic but also kind of refreshing and it was quite a change to have a couple of paragraphs after I'd won before moving onto the classic paragraph 400. Also there is someone riding fangtigers again!

Overall a very quick book and not a memorable one. I've heard that the 40s are almost all excellent FF books so looking forward to getting into those next..
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Trooper McFad on 31 January, 2024, 10:59:16 AM
Wow Boots that is some length of a review. I'll wait till lunchtime to read this - looking forward to it as I've always enjoyed these 👍🏻
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 31 January, 2024, 03:35:39 PM
That review made me laugh several times! It does sound like a ridiculous book, and I'm impressed that you persevered with it. No wonder I can't remember anything about it!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Trooper McFad on 31 January, 2024, 06:38:43 PM
Read your review and you always bring these adventures to life.

Do you write the review (or at least take short hand notes) as you go or is it all off memory at the end?

As much as you highlighted the downsides of this game I still enjoyed the read through.

Hope you enjoy your next book more and I'll look forward to the review.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 01 February, 2024, 09:00:14 AM
Thank you guys! Not my favourite book but was one of my favourite write ups I think!

I take notes as I go, do my conclusion as soon as I finish, and then go back and convert the playthrough into something legible. Bit long winded but it keeps a middle-aged man occupied.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 01 February, 2024, 03:35:21 PM
It's a shame when a gamebook disappoints as this one obviously did. Fun write-up though. It sound like it might have been an enjoyable play with fewer dice rolling tests and a less prosaic text.
Fangs of Fury, Dead of Night, and Master of Chaos are all ones that don't inspire me with much enthusiasm for playing, just by their general look and generic titles.
I'm quite interested in Black Vein Prophecy though. That's a great title.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 01 February, 2024, 07:55:56 PM
Master of Chaos is a brilliant book! One of my favourites. 
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Fortnight on 02 February, 2024, 10:16:17 AM
Good to hear it! Nice to know it's not a steady decline until they fizzle out.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 19 February, 2024, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: Richard on 04 November, 2023, 12:22:35 AMThe Soul-eater is by far the deadliest opponent I have yet encountered. Its stats alone tell me that I am not likely to survive this fight, but then the text tells me that in addition to the normal combat rules, I will automatically lose 1 willpower point and 2 endurance points every round in addition to regular damage!

I'm on a hiding to nothing here. My endurance and willpower scores are already too low, and I just can't afford this kind of attrition. And that's a moot point anyway, because the monster's combat skill is NINE POINTS higher than mine, and that's a lot! I sigh, knowing the outcome is inevitable, even though I only have to survive four attack rounds before something is going to interrupt the fight, and begin combat. I am killed in the fourth round.

Bit of a necro-quote but I've just finished playing through Grey Star and this monster absolutely mullered me in exactly the same way as this! I went into the fourth round on 2 endurance. I  honestly can't see a way through this fight without rolling at least one ten on the random number table, and even then I'd have died afterwards when Tanith did.

Other than that bit, I really enjoyed this book and re-reading your playthrough, made almost entirely the same set as choices you did! Its rich in atmosphere, it's got unconventional encounters, and two really good companions who it's painful to lose, rather than just 'oh well, Mungo died, anyway' like in a lot of books.
I'll hopefully have a go at the others in the series on Project Aon.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 20 February, 2024, 12:19:42 AM
It is a really good book, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. It's just a shame it becomes so unfair on the home stretch!

Looking forward to hearing about the others in that series.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 23 February, 2024, 09:55:12 AM
I've just finished book 2 - I had a paperback copy of that and a quiet day at work, and it's quite a short book so went for that over a FF book and flew through it.
There's a couple of very difficult fights at the start, but after that reasonably straightforward if you don't do anything daft, although the steady drip of willpower is alarming as you get near the end as there's very little in place to recover it. If you've played book 1 you get +10 willpower which helps, if you didn't have this I'm not sure the book would be winnable.

It's much in the same nature of the first with some pretty interesting encounters and three travelling companions this time - a bit stereotyped but still feel fleshed out with dialogue and actually useful. And a good revelation at the end about someone from book 1.
Books 3 & 4 look expensive but I can play them online, so I'll probably do those next. I did take notes so if I get a chance I'll write this one up.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 23 February, 2024, 03:21:14 PM
I hope you do, I'm interested in that one.

I started Nightshift a week ago, although I've not had time to keep it up since then. It's pretty good though. I'll do a review when I've finished it. It might not be suitable for a full playthrough though, because it's largely puzzle-oriented so it would be quite spoilery!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 27 February, 2024, 09:09:55 AM
Nightshift is cool! Glad you're enjoying it and would love a review!
And as you asked, sir:

Grey Star Book 2: The Forbidden City

Richard's great writeup covers book 1 where Grey Star finally discovers the lost tribe of the Kundi who know the location of the Shadow Gate, an evil portal beyond which lies the Moonstone, a magic macguffin that will enable the defeat of the Wytch-King Shasarak. Standard fantasy setup there! This book starts with Grey Star solving the Kundi riddle and the Kundi agreeing to help him. They're down to smash Shasarak, but the problem is that the Shadow Gate is a portal that moves about (a bit like the fortress in Krull) and it will next appear in the dead lands of Desolation Valley. I've got two weeks to reach this charming spot.
The Kundi are full of noble-savage stereotype and volunteer their shaman, Urik, to accompany me. He's a mix of native American / old nutter type characters who is prone to speaking wisdom is broken diction and cackling at odd times, but he does actually chat a fair bit during the adventure, and you get quite attached to the old chap. Anyway, there is no time to waste so we set off out into the rainforest whilst he tells me how daft I am for carrying provisions.

(I should note that having played book 1 already I have a big willpower boost, and also an extra magic power. I chose Sorcery, as it seems to be one you're constantly prompted about, and one I avoided in book 1 as its supposed to be willpower-draining but now I have tons of that)

Eventually we get out of the forest and Urik uses some cool Kundi technique to call a giant bird which starts flying us, by means of some harnesses he makes out of vines, across the impassable terrain below and to its nesting grounds in a swamp. En route we get shot at by some soldiers, but I use my new Sorcerous powers to shield us against the arrows. Our completely conspicuous means of travel means the Shadakine are now hunting us through the waterways of the swamp however, so we keep low and quiet through the undergrowth as we try to avoid their patrols.
Sneaking through the swamp we hear an animal in pain and move to investigate. The creature is a young Chaksu, a sort of giant lizard much prized for its tough hide and also slightly telepathic (which makes hunting it for its hide pretty messed up). Urik immediately moves to tend its wounds, but by now the Shadakine have arrived. We choose to take a stand rather than flee and abandon the Chaksu and Urik unleashes some razor-edged boomerangs as we take on the search party. Which the first bunch defeated the second wave, wary of our attacks, send in their deadly giant hounds. These fights are surprisingly nasty for the first ones in a book and the first time I tried this I was killed by the dogs due to some unlucky rolls. Second time around I won through, battered and bleeding, only to find a third wave now surrounding us. Things look totally banjaxed and the Shadakine are having a gloat when suddenly a pair of adult Chaksu burst into the clearing and smash them all up. Saved! The giant Chaksu give me some wooden pipes and say they will come help me when called and Urik is impressed.

After a breakfast of delicious scavenged fungus (Urik again) we have a choice of two routes through the swamp: one slow and safe, one direct and perilous. I take a chance here and go for the slow route - I'm pretty beat up, and I imagine the Shadakine will be on the direct route (and there's quicksand and stuff, apparently). This takes us a couple of days, but between my alchemy skills and Urik's bushcraft we avoid any perils and emerge near the city of Karnali. On the road here a long line of enslaved people are trudging along under Shadakine whips. We're observing when out of the foliage a bunch of guys charge out and attack the Shadakine and Urik just goes for it and rushes in too. The Shadakine move to place the slaves between them and the attackers, using them as shields, but I can see that their chains are all linked together if I can break the end of the link they'll be free and the bad guys exposed. The key link is protected by the slave master and as I approach him he uses his magic mind-control gem to bring up a gigantic slave with a huge sword to protect him. Thinking quickly I channel my sorcerous powers to block the mind-gems control and the big guy turns and kills the slavemaster, enabling me to break the chains, free the other slaves, and bring about the Shadakine's defeat. I also pinch the mind gem!
With the slaves free the leader of the rebels, a dude called Sado the Long Knife whose name makes him sound incredibly dodgy, asks me to help attack Karnali as otherwise the Shadakine there will come out and exact terrible revenge for his raid. Urik is well up for this so I am too! Sado's got tunnels under Karnali and that's where we go. He says the city is under the control of a guy called Kiro, a war-ward whose garrison has the city under its heel and any disobedience sees cruel retribution against the citizens. He reckons I could swing the battle in their favour. Whilst we're talking some guy tries to pick my pocket! Sado apologises and explains his army is made up mainly of convicted criminals and other ne'er do-wells but he's confident we can strike a blow here with my aid.

I think Sado is hoping I'll blast the garrison with my magic, but I have a better idea: I take the Chaksu pipes and give them a play at the swamp edge. Sure enough a load of Chaksu come out, and I direct them to attack the gates. The gates are duly subjected to giant lizard attack, and whilst the main garrison is so occupied, Sado, Urik and I lead their troops up through the tunnels in a guerilla warfare strike against Kiro's base of operations. On arrival it's quickly evident that the Shadakine are boosted by magic: their ragged lines begin to form up with autonotom-like efficiency and I detect the power  a Shadakine wytch. Using my sorcerous powers I'm able to pinpoint the witchcraft and through the astral plane I can see the wytch hunched over a Kazim stone, no less, as used by the villains of book 1 - the wytch straining to use the power of the stone over so many minds below. There is another in the room: Kiro himself, looking nervous in the presence of foul sorcery. I've a couple of options here but decide to use my own powers to amplify the mind stone and mess things up. The wytch looks a bit powerful for me so I go after Kiro. His mind is weak and I fill his brain with murderous urgings, causing him to strangle the wytch before she can react. With their magical backup gone the Shadakine quickly capitulate and the garrison falls to Sado.

With the occupiers dead or banged up, Karnali is in full on party mode. I tell Sado of my plan to head into the Deadlands and he is horrified but offers me his good wishes and some gear to take along. Urik is a bit contemptuous of our efforts: he says the Shadakine will simple come and take this city back, which only makes our mission more important, I suppose. We leave the city the next morning, and soon have a new friend in tow - the giant slave I freed with the mind-stone back on the road. His name is Samu and like Urik he's a bit stereotypical, being a big noble tribal warrior dude, but he's also awesome. He tells me how his people got crushed and enslaved by the Shadakine and now he is out for blood - and the best way to achieve this is to help me on my quest.

Second part to follow as Urik, Samu and I brave Desolation Valley and the titular Forbidden City. It's all been plain sailing so far - only one death, and no mistakes or errors that I can see.  But already my flagrant use of magic is starting to put a dent in my willpower....
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 27 February, 2024, 06:01:24 PM
That sounds like a fun book actually. You have some pretty fancy magic powers! I like the bit where you get one if your enemies to strangle the other one. Looking forward to seeing what happens next!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 28 February, 2024, 12:00:41 PM
Grey Star Book 2, Part 2

So Grey Star, with Urik and Samu in tow, is off to Desolation Valley, beyond the fearsome Mountains of Morn. Our journey will be long and the going arduous, and it's not long before Urik and Samu both realise we're being followed (I'm presumably too bookish / not wilderness savvy enough to notice this)
Samu cheerfully hangs back to ambush the follower and brings in a scrawny little dude in leathers and red trousers with his arms wrapped around his neck. He gives his name (once I have stopped him being throttled) as Hugi and i recognise him as the guy who tried to rob me back in Sado's base camp. He admits to being a thief and a rogue who spied on us to discover our location and wants to follow us to the Forbidden City because its supposed to be full of treasure. This is my third companion. He's smarmy and arrogant and quite a contrast to Samu and Urik, the former of whom keeps asking if he can kill him (Urik suggests just breaking his legs if he steps out of line). He's definitely a dick, but he might come in handy.

Before long then, the four of us are into the Deadlands which as you can imagine is devoid of any life, plant or animal. Hugi is going on about treasure and exposition when we encounter something that IS in the Deadlands - a horrible ghost. Using my powers of Evocation I'm able to protect my little gang inside a pentagram until it wanders off, and that night I have a dream message from Shasarak taunting me about how doomed I am and my mates will end up dead like they did in the previous book. The next day I'm weak and feverish from the dream attack and things get worse when we encounter three more ghosts, sent by Shasarak to stop us. This time it is Urik who drives them away, but I'm starting to look a bit low on willpower through all these exertions and with my endurance also dripping away through night terrors I'm not in the best of shape by the time we reach the mountains and the Forbidden City, which nestles at their base. It's all in ruins and very gloomy looking, and only accessible via a very decrepit looking bridge over a fast flowing river of black water. Hugi reckons the bridge will bear our weight but then refuses to go first: it is left to Urik, snorting at Hugi's cowardice, to go first. Seeing the bridge is safe, Hugi then crosses, then me, but when Samu goes last (at his request, for he is the heaviest) the bridge collapses and despite our efforts he is swept away to his doom.
Tearfully head to the city and are about to pass through an archway when we are challenged by a crazed, starving looking old man claiming to need a password to open the non-existent city gate. It soon becomes clear that the city is not abandoned but instead full of lunatics. These madmen harass us at every turn, soon turning aggressive, and eventually we are chased by a mob through the broken city streets, captured (after I foolishly try to get to high ground and fall off a rotten platform) and thrown into a prison to await a grisly fate.

But all is not lost! As we sit in glum contemplation, there is a terrific amount of noise outside and who should burst into the cell but Samu! The big tribesman, having survived the river, has tracked us here and cuts a swathe through the crazies to save us. Eventually, with Hugi's skills, we are able to get through a door and into miles of winding passages under the city that eventually bring us into a vast hall where we find the 'king' of the city, clad in ragged robes and attended by courtiers and soldiers in dirty finery and rusted armour, dancing to non-existent music. There's no way out of here so I decide to brazen it out, and when he sees me the king welcomes me and invites me to dine with them at the royal banquet - which, horrible, turns out to be piles of human limbs on a rat infested table off filthy silverware. I'm able to sit through this in mounting horror until the king and his court depart and we are free to explore.
At this point we realise Hugi has done a runner, but we track him down in the now-empty throne room where he discovers a hidden passage into the mountain and eventually a vast treasure chamber, which to his huge disappointment contains only piles of mouldering books.
Whilst Hugi is weeping and Samu is thinking about laying him out, I scour the books and discover that Shasarak is also a Shianti - couldn't see that coming - and avail myself of a weird black rod of magic bearing his emblem which proves immediately useful as it allows us to open a magic door and get out of here.

More passages beyond, and Urik tells us the Shadow Gate is close. My willpower is totally pathetic by now but I risk using some for Prophecy to guide me through the tunnels and we come out in Desolation Valley which is indeed desolate. It's also riddled with holes. Urik says the gate is below ground, and we're considering climbing down a hole when a massive blind worm monster pops out of one. Urik and I try to run but Samu wants to fight and I end up going back to help him: with my aid he chops its head off and boots it down the hole it came from. Eventually Urik finds the right hole and with Samu standing guard (Hugi has vanished at this point, not sure when he left or if he is just keeping quiet) Urik and I descend. I lost my rope earlier trying to help Samu out the river, so its a long drop for me but Urik just clambers down with ease.
Urik was on the money: I was expecting more tunnels here but instead we're right by the shadow gate. It's a big pool of inky darkness, and there's two shocks here: first the giant shadow demon that absolutely destroys you in book one, standing guard. Second, within the gate itself is none other than Tanith! I thought her dead but instead she is imprisoned within the gate, a tormented prisoner of Shasarak's realm.
I do NOT want to fight this demon, as my will and endurance are by now single figures. I do have the option of using the rod, and in a fit of inspiration I take the option to hand it over the demon. This frees it from its servitude to Shasarak and it immediately bogs off. Anticlimatic yet awesome victory! I'm always a fan of being able to avoid the final fight by being clever (or as here, lucky).
With the demon gone, the shadow gate rises before me. On the other side I can see Tanith, a prisoner. Without hesitation I step through... and that's the end of the book.

Enjoyed this a lot! Tons of lore, good writing, more companions who were not Mungos, and not very hard if you make smart decisions - although I was very, very close to death at the end. Recommended!
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 28 February, 2024, 12:01:40 PM
I've also played Book 3 - Beyond the Nightmare Gate - on Project Aeon. Sadly I didn't enjoy this one anywhere near as much: I'm not sure if the online play aspect of it was a big factor, as it certainly is a different experience to an actual book and feels a lot less involved and a lot more transient. However, the book also featured a lot of auto-death paragraphs, something that's been missing from the series so far. At one point you need to make three random number tests and any failure means game over and there's another bit where of four choices, I think three kill you (I died a lot in this book)
These factors led me to eventually stop rolling for things and I finished the book very quickly after that as it's actually got a very straightforward story and although there's a twist at the end, it's pretty easy to see what it is and what to do (in fact, you're told a couple of times by Tanith). I'm definitely playing book 4 to see how it finishes though. You recover the Moonstone at the end of book 3 so hopefully with GS kicking Shasarak back to whatever evil wizard pit he came out of.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Richard on 28 February, 2024, 03:19:35 PM
Great write-up! The mad king's banquet sounds like a very cool scene, was there an illustration?

Do let us know how the fourth book goes.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 28 February, 2024, 03:44:20 PM
There absolutely was! I'll try and get a snap of it and put it up here.
Title: Re: Gamebooks
Post by: Barrington Boots on 04 March, 2024, 02:25:51 PM
I've finished book 4 now as well. Again, playing online has felt like the less than ideal way to enjoy the book but it did mean I didn't have to track down an expensive copy of it!

Anyway, not many spoilers, but its a good one and far better than book 3: Grey Star and Tanith return to the material plane to discover seven years have passed. Shasarak has both his Shadakine horde and an army of demons at his disposal. I quickly reunite with Samu, who is now king of his tribe and fighting a valiant resistance against the demons, then lead them to link up with the rebellion, led by Sado for some epic battles. Eventually finding a very novel way to counter the power of the Wytch's Kazim stones, Sado, Samu and I lead the rebellion to the gates of Shasarak's fortress where I teleport in for a final battle with the villain.
It's a lot of fun, although the final battle is INSANE in its difficulty. The Moonstone from book 3 gives Grey Star a huge power boost with a number of new magical powers and a vast increase in willpower meaning you can throw magic around like confetti which is a lot of fun!
Tanith is a bit sidelined, although its possible I missed a bit of her plot, only appearing at the start and then popping up at the end for a happy ending. Lots of Samu though. The battles are fun - less detailed than Way of the Tiger as you rarely take the field yourself although I had a good bit fighting some chariots.

Definitely recommend these, and given you can play them all free online, why not.