Prog 2287: Grinders Keepers!

[broodblik]

Well another prog not too bad all readable.

Dredd – An entertaining done and dusted one shot. Quite a different tone from Niemand’s previous story.

Hope – Continue the weird and macabre. This is definitely more twisted than the previous arcs but still entertaining. I know a few has complained about the “darker” side of the story. One question why is in the face violence acceptable when something more “different” not?

Skippy – Nothing spectacular all readable, fine art though.

Terror – A good little tale which did not linger too much and when straight for the jugular.

Brink – As Dan Abnett is a guest in his own strip Dan continues to bring all the plot points together. This is becoming boring to say the same thing week in and week out, but this is an excellent read.

[broodblik]

B/W Cover:

[IndigoPrime]

Batman's Superior Cousin: thanks for the Skip Tracer recap, although I still struggle to remember anything more than someone at some point being a pop star someone was trying to kill. Oh well. Given my terrifying reading pile, I can’t imagine I’ll pop back to run through all of this strip just yet.

Some broader themes from this thread:

1. Watching Stranger Things, I’m astonished anyone would let an 11yo watch it – especially the latest series, which is horrific. That’s properly 18-rated stuff, in my book.

2. I don’t align with the view the entire Prog should go all ages, but I do find it odd that some minor shifts aren’t encouraged to widen the audience for certain strips. Perhaps the current editorial team likes a good shit (so to speak), but I don’t think any of the strips would be eroded by cutting back on swearing, excessive violence or nudity. This isn’t about eradicating such things, nor losing the comic’s edge, but adding potential for a wider audience. My guess is that 2000 AD doesn’t see any value in that strategy and instead currently considers itself closer in nature to Image.

3. With the Regened Progs, I almost feel the need to bold Jim’s posts or pin them to the top of the forum. Alas, we don’t have a pin function. But, yes, kids don’t read weekly comics. Mine is the only one in her entire class – possibly her entire year – reading two weeklies. She knows friends who have Phoenix comics, but not a subscription. One friend who read the Beano every week now appears to be going off it. But these kids do read trades. That’s where the money is. But they’re also a risk: publish and don’t find and audience and you’re fucked. But if you have an outlet where you can build up material at a relatively low risk and the trade becomes reprint…

Ultimately, modern ‘2000 AD’ needs to be thought of as ecosystem. We have a set of publications that all feed into each other in various ways. Any big changes would need to be very carefully considered. And the evidence suggests that while some of the smaller shifts have irked a vocal minority, not that many people really care (bar a handful of subscriber flouncers), and Regened is finding some kind of audience. We’ve also seen Monster Fun, which – despite, IMO, some problems that need to be overcome – must have found an audience too, given that it’s now a regular (albeit only a bi-monthly).

[Richard]

Do young children read bi-monthlies? Does anyone know why they don't want weeklies?

[The Corinthian]

Do young children read bi-monthlies? Does anyone know why they don't want weeklies?

Is it maybe that the most viable and visible comics available to kids these days are US reprints following the traditional American monthly publication model? The once ubiquitous British weekly anthology hasn't really existed for a generation and weekly kids publications tend to be aimed at very young readers or are bought for the free gifts rather than the content.

On an unrelated note, this is the second time that both the current Brink and Hope storylines are going to be pre-empted by Regened and I'm having flashbacks to my youth when you'd have to wait three weeks between episodes of The X Files or Twin Peaks because BBC2 had taken them off to make way for snooker.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Going back to the prog again - I'm hardly the only reader to have noticed who Arnold 'Layne - Piperatthegatesof' Dawn is a very thinly-disguised homage to?

[Jacqusie]

I'm sticking up for the likes of Hope and Fiends that have both had a bit of flack. So if I had a choice of Regened in the shiny happy kids club and Hope, I think I know which I'd choose.

Not many comment on the art in Hope and I think it's what's needed in the prog, a gritty, textured black and white noir gumshoe which admittedly hasn't hit the heights of previous, but looks fabulous. I suppose there will be those who want Pandora Perfect level of giggles and easy to follow chunky lines, colours and script, but I don't particually buy 2000AD for a regened Minnie the Minx.

I don't mind Brink, I just don't think it's the amazing, wonderous peice of work that others do and I have to wonder with a good script editor, does it really need to be 24 episodes? It's quite repetitive and not the tightest thing that's ever appeared in the prog.

[nxylas]

I'm sticking up for the likes of Hope and Fiends that have both had a bit of flack. So if I had a choice of Regened in the shiny happy kids club and Hope, I think I know which I'd choose.

I'd rather have both. The joy of an anthology title is that you can have both Hope and Pandora Perfect in the same comic.

[IndigoPrime]

Do young children read bi-monthlies? Does anyone know why they don't want weeklies?

From what I can tell, it’s not that they don’t want them. It’s that they don’t get into the habit of getting them. They don’t even know it’s an option. And that’s because we now have a generation of parents who never had this either. I’m an old git compared to most parents of mini-IP’a friends AND I still love comics, hence her getting two weeklies.

There’s also the issue of cost. Taking into account inflation, these comics if they’d continued from the 1970s price-wise would be a quid or less a week. They’re three times that, which prices out many families.

[Jim_Campbell]

From what I can tell, it’s not that they don’t want them. It’s that they don’t get into the habit of getting them.

Also, in this age of streaming, on-demand, bingeing and box sets, kids (as a demographic) don't much care for extended serials and cliff-hangers where they have to wait a week (or whatever) for the next episode. I recall the late, great Nigel Dobbyn saying that he was explicitly told by editorial not to pitch multi-part Billy the Cat stories because the readers overwhelmingly preferred done-in-one tales.

(Which, obviously, doesn't rule out a weekly anthology where every story is done-in-one every time, but something in my gut tells me this is probably easier with shorter humour strips than 5-6 page action adventure ones.)

[broodblik]

Jim what you saying is actually a pity since this was one off the big things I liked when I was growing up the anticipation of my weekly Eagle and prog. I like the build-up and the wait to see what is next. We are now living in a "fast-food" world were everyone wants instant gratification. I still like my weekly dose of prog and do not want it any which way

[norton canes]

Can tell a Regened prog is coming up because the review thread has gone onto three pages : )

Not bothered so much by bare breasts in Hope as I am that I now know what a lipstick-smeared Sir Ian McKellern looks like in lingerie. Also that we get several repeated panels in a 'talking head' page, one of my pet hates that. Though on the subject of talking heads that's a great final frame.

'Grinder': excellent Dredd, excellent cover. Looks like we've got another disgruntled character to add to the Niemand-verse. Brilliant Terror Tale, I'm all for the fingers coming off. Terror tale after all. Skip Tracer best read as ASMR, not quite up there with hair-washing noises but very relaxing. Brink was... actually, better not say. Tell you tomorrow.

[IndigoPrime]

Also, in this age of streaming, on-demand, bingeing and box sets, kids (as a demographic) don't much care for extended serials and cliff-hangers where they have to wait a week (or whatever) for the next episode.

Perhaps other parents will disagree, but that’s not my experience with mini-IP at all. Sure, she gets impatient at waiting for the next thing, but that’s kids. She finished the first Stowell Loki book and was immediately “Where’s the next one?” That there wasn’t one at the time just made her move on to something else, BUT she hasn’t forgotten Loki, because she likes it. Same with The Phoenix every single week.

Again, I think it’s mostly about habit. Kids bloody love getting physical, tactile things. They love getting some post that is just for them. They key is that becoming ingrained, and the habit has just been lost – and has been replaced by two other things: impulse purchase (which I suspect is a bigger driver in the ‘one and done’ idea) and collected content (which in many cases is often another flavour of one-and-done). For our family, weekly comics are normal, because I had that experience and wanted my kid to have it. Very few of mini-G’s friends (7–8) have parents who had that, because many of them are in their 30s.

(Which, obviously, doesn't rule out a weekly anthology where every story is done-in-one every time, but something in my gut tells me this is probably easier with shorter humour strips than 5-6 page action adventure ones.)

I’d say weekly still works. The Phoenix seems to handle adventure strips fine. Mini-IP happily follows them all, and loves getting a new episode of, say, Fawn. Where things fall down is if the frequency is too low – which is a problem with Monster Fun – and when the storytelling itself is problematic through lacking clarity (again… Monster Fun).

[Huey2]

Kids not reading weekly comics.

I get that the British comics will never have the circulation they once had - and never, ever will. But I do think there'd still be an audience for them (albeit much smaller) if they had the opportunity.

- The revived Doctor Who proved that there WAS an audience for a family adventure tv series ( And the dwindling of viewers can't just be down to the advent of catch-up but must be because it stopped targetting that audience).
- Harry Potter proved that kids did like adventure stories.

Anecdotally, my youngest loves the Beano and part of the excitement of a Saturday is the latest issue dropping through the letter box. I also know a few Beano readers at my school. Would they move onto something else (like we all did) if there was something available? Again, I don't know.

[Jim_Campbell]

- The revived Doctor Who proved that there WAS an audience for a family adventure tv series ( And the dwindling of viewers can't just be down to the advent of catch-up but must be because it stopped targetting that audience).

Although you'll notice that, in the revival, the four- or six-parters that were common in the previous era were jettisoned in favour of mostly done-in-one episodes with the occasional two-parter.