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I did eventaully read pretty much all the Claremont stuff as an adult, thanks to the Panini Pocket Books (excellent value comics in small size!), and it's good clean superhero soap opera comics.

These are great comics and bang for your bukc. Last time I tried the Morriosn X-Men run it was via these.

...especially the 'Classic X-Men' back ups. But I find these were more of a signpost to me that I should read more Vertigo comics, that do this kind of thing better, and in more depth.

Yeah those shorts are defo my fav X-Men stories these days. And John Bolton just knocked it out the park with them. I think you can get them in a seperate collection now that I should try out.

Everyone knows that Nightcrawler is the best, right? He just looks (and, frankly, acts) cooler than any other Marvel character by miles.

Nightcrawler is definitely the best! I always liked Colossus too.

YEH! Nightcrawler love in da house. He's such a cool and charming character. I'm always a bit amazed no one has found a way to give him a decent series of his own. I always pick them up and quickly pass. Mind the recent Uncanny Spider-man by our own Spurrioso was pretty good and I guess that counts.

The characters I actually think are pretty well crafted - they're all very distinct, with clear roles in the psuedo-family dynamic. I'm not sure about the forced nature of them, that might require a re-read. Again there's some nostalgia involved here.

Yeah I think many folks geton better with that. The family dynamic he went for worked so much better in Power Pack for me, hence dropping this one here. I'm guessing that won't work for many folks though. Mind I was chuffed with the positive reaction to that one I have to say.

[Part 2 - Not on the list Uncanny X-Men]

Part 2 - Not on the list Uncanny X-Men

His run worked to a formula and he worked and manipulated that to move with the times that his exceptional run covered. He experimented with ideas and character rosters, restlessly playing with that formula, though never really moving too far from it. As a teenager introduced to his work in the mid 80s these comics spoke to me so much and outside Daredevil, these were my favourite of that time.

Yet now, for all that, I can barely read them these days.

I don't really enjoy these comics as an adult at all. Why is that? Well for me they are so of their time and indeed my time then, but they don't hold up to my older eye. I see the formula, can't read past the cracks and the hookey dialogue. I see that crafted formula exposed so clearly and it isn't for me any more. The fact that they were so perfectly crafted for his audience of the time and age they were, means they simply don't translate to me as the reader I am now. There is no room in them to entertain the different reader I have become.

In my entry for Power Pack I talked about how I felt the characters there were honest, they felt real and I trusted them and their place in the story. It truly felt like the characters came first, the story developed from there. With Claremont's X-Men I just don't feel that any more, I don't trust the characters as drivers. The craft and skills behind them shows through, but not in a good way. In the way that makes me see what strings they are trying to pull, what aspect of the audience they are playing to. How they are being used to key into some element of teenage life that will make them appeal to the target audience.

I mean it's done brilliantly, it really works and it worked like billio on me when I was that audience. Now however I feel I see behind the curtain and the characters feel almost cynically built to pull certain emotional triggers. A large part of that is possibly the dialogue as well. I find it almost impenetrable these days. It's almost as bad as Stan Lees, it's hyperbolic and there's just so much of it. But written in a way that feels like it's sculpted to evoke a specific response, rather than feeling natural and evoking that response organically.

Fair to say all dialogue, all story will do this, I just feel with Claremont's work I can now see how he's pulling the strings. As said as well there's just too much of it, so many words, often not saying that much. It feels so written and underlines points which could have better been served by 'show not tell'. I do wonder how good it might have been if John Wagner had been a script editor and just chipped away at things to expose the essence of what was being said, not underline it three or four times.

It's a real shame as one thing Claremont does better than almost any superhero writer is craft combat to do just that. To evoke tension and excitement in very deliberate ways. With his action pieces though he gets away with it much better as he whisks you along at pace, whereas the dialogue drags the character moments back. In the combat sections you genuinely feel our heroes are in danger and the fight is hard and they have to be creative to win the day. Or often not, defeats happened and so the danger in these superhero tussles was palpable. Not so with the character moments where nothing feels earnt, to me at least these days.

I accept I'm very much an outlier on this and folks either see past the cracks that I perceive to glory in the great plotting. Or the stories have such a foundational part in their reading they don't care. OR they see the craft as so good they don't even notice what I perceive as forced characters I don't trust. I mean none of us can ignore the countless dangling plot threads, but they never really mattered, they were part of the fun wondering when some long forgotten idea would spring back to life. 

My not liking Claremont's Uncanny run is another case of the reader bringing different desires to the table and therefore getting a different reaction to what they read. I do completely get what folks see in them, but they are just not for me these days. And for me this one is a case of not just thinking these comics are good, just not that good. Rather I just don't get on with them anymore at all, wonderful art aside.

It doesn't matter how important you are if I don't trust you, you're not getting my vote.

[Part 1 - Not on the list Uncanny X-Men]

Part 1 - Not on the list Uncanny X-Men

Not on the list - Uncanny X-Men by Chris Claremont

While we're talking about 80s Marvel comics let's talk about probably the biggest of them of all and why


Copyright Marvel Comics

Doesn't make the list.

Chris Claremont took over the then recently relaunched Uncanny X-Men (then just X-Men actually. It always surprises me how late the 'Uncanny' was added - actually issue 142 I think) from issue 96 in 1975 and started a 16 year run on the title covering well over 300 issues across all X-titles. I ain't going to try to work out how many issues, there were, like, almost 200 issues of Uncanny and countless Annuals, Specials, minis, spinoff titles and Xavier knows what else! These comics have a very good claim to be the most important in mainstream US comics beyond Action Comics 1, Detective 27 and say FF 1. Let's not get into that debate. Suffice to say this run fundamentally reshaped the comics landscape for Marvel and DC and those that followed in their wake.

His run played heavily into the outsider feeling many comics fans feel. It built a soap opera around the superhero shenanigans in a way that built on what Stan, Jack and Steve did and laid the template for almost all the comics from the 'big two' to follow. He understood how to engage and speak to his teen audience like few others, to appeal to a need for thrills and spills, bolstered by 'real' human stories to connect with his readers.

He did this supported by an astonishing line of artists who define for so many what good comic book art should look like. This run with John Byrne is seminal. He has a short time with Paul Smith that is insanely popular with those in the know. He then moved onto my favourite, John Romita Jr to continue things, before Mark Silvestri and Jim Lee blew fans' minds in the late 80s early 90s. Amongst all that there were numerous other fantastic artists involved. For me most significantly there are some stellar comics by Barry Windsor Smith dotted about, which even today stand out as the highlights of his tenure.

He took newly introduced characters created by others and shaped those rough drafts into some of the biggest superhero names in comics. Wolverine is the obvious one, but everyone who read these comics will have a favourite, Nightcrawler was mine, so many love Storm or Kitty Pryde, a few stand by straight edge Cyclops, I'd guess a few even have Professor X as their fav. All those characters spoke to someone. Not resting on his laurels though he'd go on to create a host of others that would reach similar levels of acclaim and adoration.

Early 80's Marvel does seem to be its hey-day.  By the late 80's they seem to have crawled up their own backsides before completely losing the plot in the speculator boom of the 90's. (trillion's of covers, holograms, card covers, die cut covers, cover covers ...)

This is my feeling on Marvel too, although I did wonder if it was nostalgia telling me this. It's nice to see others of this opinion!

Nostalgia could well be a part of this, but look at what sustains and the quality of experimentation and innovation that fuels any nostaglia and I do reckon there's something there.

Hi,hope no-one minds me putting this here,but if anyone wants to buy or trade for a collection of Powerpack comics then let me know,I have a bunch of them in the attic that will have to go as recycling or charity shop
Thanks
Matt

Obviously with deals etc to consider this is an offer defo worth checkin' out... as I'm about to say why not trade in those old Uncanny comics for something more interesting...

And to think that people don't se AI as the future! 

Early 80's Marvel does seem to be its hey-day.  By the late 80's they seem to have crawled up their own backsides before completely losing the plot in the speculator boom of the 90's. (trillion's of covers, holograms, card covers, die cut covers, cover covers ...)

I've talked about this elsewhere on the internet recently as it goes and I'm left speculating how much Jim Shooter was such an important creative force for Marvel during his time as Editor in Chief. He gets a lot of bad press for how he handled relationships with the creative talent but there's little denying how he acted as a person during his time in charge Marvel was so much more innovative and brave creatively.

Well damn this one arrived yesterday but still waiting for 2378! Hate when that happens.

Cool read, I'll have to check out some Power Pack now! I've been enjoying Claremont X-Men, I'm in the 170s, and Power Pack #27 is coming up in a crossover there. And Louise Simonson sounds cool on podcasts, seems like the 80s was a real high point for Marvel.

Ah... you ain't going to like my next post!

This post makes me want to go buy Power Pack. But I know I own Power Pack in a longbox already. Oh I wonder how much effort it would be to find them. And which I have. Not a complete run I don't think. But enough to stop me spaffing ££ on eBay today that's for sure. The TBPs would have to be complete for me to go that route. No Epics, Marvel? Come on!

Oh digging is half the fun surely... or is that just me? Yeah shame there isn't an option beyond the Omnibus really these days. They didn't even get an Essential Collection.

What's your thoughts on Runaways? I thought the first arc of that was excellent although I gave up soon after that.

I've not read Runaways - always meant to as a fan of Brain K Vaughan and this one always looked good and was talked about very positively when I got back into comics. Just never got to it - as I keep saying too damned many comics to read.

As I move away from superhero stuff these days have to be honest not sure I'm likely to get to it now, but you never know.

[#87 Part 4]

#87 Part 4

Where to find it

The usual places have 3 'Classic' collections that collect the first 26 issues and a number of relevent cross overs. The first is really cheap at the moment if you fancy sampling things.

Two omnibusi (I never know the plural!) collect the whole of the original run and more if that's your thing. You'll only need the first of these for the vast majority of the comics I'm discussing here covering the first 36 issues of the series.

That means these are all available digitally, again from all the normal places at a good price.

Once again the aftermarket is also your friend for this one. They've not set many hearts racing the way they have mine, so can be found pretty easily and cheaply. I picked mine up a good few years ago now for a quid each and the prices haven't changed much at all since then. Hunt them down, it's well worth it.

Hey if you like there's a new series coming out as I type called Power Pack: Into the Storm. It sees Louise Simonson and June Brigman return to their original run and as I'm no doubt discussing elsewhere on the forum is great fun and they haven't lost the simple craft they had in the original series. Maybe not the place to start but worth mentioning.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page

Near Mint Condition sees Omar discuss the first omnibus which provides a decent overview.

Aznfunk has an interview with June Brigman - which I'll get around to watching I hope before this goes out! I don't know much about Brigman so I'm glad I found this.

Lukas Kendall someone I'm not familiar with has a short, but neat little write up.

As you might be able to tell I'm scrapping around a little for this one. There's a Facebook group (fan run I assume) that talks about the team generally and while not focused on the issues I'm looking at of course deals with these prime Power Pack stories. It's a good way to a round up of what else is out there.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.

[#87 Part 3]

#87 Part 3


Copyright - Marvel Comics

Jon Bogdanove took over about half way through Simonson's run and while not as good as Brigman does a pretty damned fine job as well. I don't think he'll reach the peak of his powers until he's on Superman a few years after this, but he's well on his way. So artistically the series really is great.

The balance between situating Power Pack between the street level of the Marvel Universe and their own play field, the conflict between the Snarks and Kymellians  gives the series a really good quality too. The space stuff has an almost sci-fi fairytale tone to it. It sets the quartet up for fantasy adventures that fulfils the brief of a kids adventure. Gives the series its own corner of the MCU to have free, fanciful reign in.

Then when it returns them to more familiar territory it becomes grounded again. The use of Spider-man, Wolverine, Cloak and Dagger give a fresh perspective on those characters through the eyes of children who want to be peers, but know they are not there yet. The selection of those characters really works as well. Spider-man reminds us of his early days and the problems he faced as a superhero. Wolverine of course has that nice juxtaposition of being grim and hard yet wanting to protect the innocent and preserve their innocence since he lost his. Cloak and Dagger provides a view of how dangerous the streets are to children and kids and the nightmare 'realities' of street level crime, even in Marvel Comics. Then when you throw in Thor and Beta Ray Bill to hammer home the wonder of the world they live in, it's fantastic. The Marvel Universe and its rich pool of characters is used to perfection here.

While all this is going on the kids have to deal with being kids. They have all the 'minor' problems that kids do. I say minor but to kids they seem so big. Issues at school, Alex getting teased for starting to have an interest in girls. It all feels very grounded and almost small scale, yet that works so well. Add to that they struggle with not letting their parents learn of their powers, they feel bad about it but are afraid to do so. They have petty and jealousy about who has the best and most useful powers and feel doubt over how to get the best out of their own 'gift'. Put simply this all reads like early Spider-man if Peter Park had been aged 5-12 when he got his powers. The fact that it takes these 60s ideas and moves them to the 80s, prime superhero time for me goes a long way to explaining why this hit home so perfectly for me, even though I came to them as an adult, having only read bits in those reprints I mentioned in the 80s.

It's Louise Simonson writing that really brings all this home. She just gets the kids. I believe she has at least one child and I've no idea how old they were when she wrote Power Pack, but the children are written as children. They feel real and honest. She has observed the way children of different ages act and interact and that makes this series an absolute delight to read. Just as with the art, the writing identifies the kids as individuals, defined in part by their age, but also as people, not just generic little superheroes as so many writers in the genre seem to do. They bicker and doubt, argue but love each other, irritate the hell out of each other, yet will do anything for each other. In short they act like real siblings.

In doing this the series presents a real, but curious, ambition. It's brave in the desire to be so different, to stand out from the superhero crowd. The craft and passion behind it make it stand out as something pretty special.


Copyright - Marvel Comics

By telling the tale of superheroes of a younger age it opens your eyes to the wonders of a superhero universe. It reminds even the most jaded reader of how incredible and challenging having these 'gifts' would be. It situates their superhero challenges in a world of fears and troubles of kids who feel genuine and in doing that reminds the reader of what an amazing yet scary time this was in a way that feels so honest it's hard not to be pulled along with the glee and tension they feel.

You know what, I was a little nervous about re-reading these for fear that they wouldn't hold up for me any more. Having written this up I simply can't wait for them to get to the top of my read list!

[#87 Part 2]

#87 Part 2


Copyright - Marvel Comics

On returning to earth after this first adventure the children split their time between dealing with further interstellar shenanigans between the Snarks and the Kymellians and dropping into the 'regular' world of their corner of the Marvel Universe. They have frequent guest appearances and cameos from a small and well selected pool of other Marvel characters which I'll return to.

Now as I said all of the above made me wince a little as I typed it. There I was saying how great Power Pack is, how it stood out from the superhero crowd. I then proceed to recap a story that sounds like it could have come from Stan and Jack in the 60s, or any 70s or 80s Marvel comic. And to be entirely frank on one level this series is just that. I make no bones about this being standard superhero fare at its core... well indeed on all levels.

However, the underlying thing that raises it above the normal is a level of craft that is frankly really good. Even in that summary you get a hint that this is well constructed. The plot of how and why the Power kids (convenient naming aside) get their powers and get drawn into their adventures makes sense, well in context. It all hangs together. This is very well plotted. In a large part I think this comes from the fact that Louise Simonson cared about this series and wanted to make a real success of it.

Jim Shooter, then Editor in Chief during a wildly creative period for Marvel, wanted his editors to also do some freelance assignments. I think he believed (I assume) getting these editors to walk the walk and not just talk the talk would get them under the skin of the creative process and make them better at their jobs. If you see the creative leaps made by Marvel during this controversial time, it seems to have worked. Louise Simonson however didn't want to take a playing gig from a jobbing freelancer. So rather than just jump on one of the existing titles to complete her freelance work she decided to work up her own new concept. She got it signed off by Shooter and away she went.
This is her creation, she clearly took more time and effort with the ideas and concepts and that shines through in the quality of not just the plotting, but the scripting, in fact the whole creative effort.


Copyright - Marvel Comics

The other great thing that Louise Simonson brings to the party is selecting June Brigman as artist. Brigman was just starting out in the industry but Simonson saw her talent for drawing children and she really does that so well. The kids are all immediately recognisable as the age they are meant to be from visuals alone under Brigman, something so many artists don't seem able to do having a generic way of drawing 'children' in a single 'smaller person' way irrespective of their ages.

Brigman brings so much more to the series however. She designs the living crap out of this series. The designs are amazing. From the customs the children wear, to the spacecraft that they fly around in, to the aliens that chase them. Everything is designed to perfection. I am so keen on the Snarks, the nasty lizard aliens. They are a masterful piece of design. They look different enough to feel alien, yet recognizable enough that you get what they are about and can read their emotions. They are scary enough to create tension and drama, yet can easily fall into comedic fun when that tension gets too much for the intended audience. Oh and they look so damned cool. Brigman has a design aesthetic that just works for me. It felt so fresh and new when I first saw these reprinted in some Marvel UK reprint or other and have stood the test of time. They feel timeless to my aging eyes.

Once she's designed the characters and the world she draws the hell out of things. It's a great piece of craft. Even when drawing familiar characters within the Marvel Universe she gives them a fresh lick of paint and realises them in a way that feels comfortable and right, but adds just a little something new, or at the very least uses what's there already really well.

[#87 Part 1]

#87 Part 1



Number 87 - Power Pack by Louise Simonson

Keywords: Superheroes, mainstream, kids comics, craft, needs a re-read

Creators:
Writer - Lousie Simonson
Art - Various mainly June Brigman and Jon Bogdanove with Bob Wiacek doing a lot of the inks
Colours - Glynis Oliver and others

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 40
Date of Publication: 1984 - 1988

Last read: 2013

As I re-evaluate what comics I enjoy the most I've been stripping my collection of all sorts of stuff I don't think I'll get around to re-reading. Most of the stuff that's going onto the 'for sale' pile (well its many boxes by this point!) is my superhero stuff. Only the best are spared the chop and one that is staying in my collection, at least until I get to a rapidly approaching re-read is


Copyright - Marvel Comics

Specifically I'm talking about the start of Power Pack's time at Marvel, they are still around today as I'll get to later in this post. The first 40 issues of their ongoing title, in which they debuted, was written by Louise Simonson with art in the main by the brilliant June Brigman, up to issue 17 and followed by the almost as good Jon Bogdanove with issue 22.

In some ways it's very surprising that Power Pack stands out so much amongst so many decent superhero comics of the time as it tells the tale of four sibling children. Indeed it seems aimed at an audience who will relate to these leads and seems to be written for a younger audience than even Marvel's main fare in the mid 80s when it came out. In doing that it manages however to be a really all ages title. It might be written with a young audience in mind but reads really well to an adult. This is largely due to the way the series makes the kids of the title actually behave like real children of their defined ages. From Katie who is 4 years old to Alex who at 12 is the oldest sibling. For completion Jack whose 8 and Julie at 10 make up the team.

It's written from their perspective, reads like these are real kids having to deal with wonderful powers and the terrible dangers they bring. Terrible dangers both in terms of the aliens and villains they have to fight against and terrible in terms of the struggles of young children and the fears they have. Perversely in handling things from this perspective and with such quiet honesty it reads to me as far more mature than most mainstream comics of the time.


Copyright - Marvel Comics

The story tells of the four Power siblings as detailed above. Yes they really are called Power, but that's a minor irritation which exposes the nature of these comics.  Actually the whole of what I'm about to recount by way of recap makes clear these are mainstream kids superhero tales, you'll just have to trust me their naive charm makes all this really work.

The children live with their parents on a beachfront house outside New York. Their father just happens to be a brilliant scientist who develops some amazing science based antimatter type advance in technology. I don't know it was superhero science type stuff. His work draws the attention of two alien races. The first are the good horsey type aliens called Kymellians who send one of their leaders 'Whitey' to warn him of the dangers of developing his work further. The second are warrior lizard types called Snarks (a name ripe for at least one pun.) and not nice. They are intent on kidnapping Doc Powers to extract his discovery from him to use for their own nefarious means. In doing so they mortally wound Whitey and indeed capture the kids parents.

Whitey crash lands his sentient spaceship 'Friday' on the beach near the Power's home and in his last dying act bestows on each of the children a fraction of his 'powers' and his smart ship. So each of the children suitably superpowered and have the means have to journey into space to rescue their parents, hopefully without mum and dad realising it's them doing it and that they are now superheroes.

For the record, when I said "Wagner rules" I meant like "Wagner is awesome", I'm American so our slang is sometimes different in contexts etc. 

I mean he totally is!

I've loved Thought Bubble in both the Armouries and those couple of years across the City centre. Not been since its been in Harrogate so very interest to see how well that works.

As for Lawless well I have the pss offically stamped BUT that was done just as we were booking a couple of summer breaks so just need to see how I feel in the morning and how financially tender I am.

Meeting folks here, so Barrington Boots that is defo a factor, is the main draw for Lawless. Let's see how a nights sleep does for it all...