The changing view of an older Squax.

[Le Fink]

Dante for me is a bit different, in that I was an adult when it started.

Me too. First read in the Hachette books so not long ago at all.

I didn't like the story much, and I hated the character. He was a smug little shit  and I just didn't get why people liked him.

I didn't mind him too much at first, he was cocky but that was OK. I was put off by the 'too cool to kill' stuff. Cringe. That didn't last too long thankfully. And there was enough world building going on to keep me interested.

After the war knocked him about a bit and he lost the shite hairstyle, I found myself warming to him a bit then at the end liking him, and in the process realising what an amazing world Robbie and the artists had built.

Yeah his character definitely matured and grew on me - good writing.

[13school]

Changing views on a character or strip I tend to think are a result of advanced writing - which I wouldn't automatically call "good writing" myself, as there's a number of strips over the years that are pretty straightforward that I also think are well written. But if there's a certain level of complexity or sophistication there (even if the strip is also going for broad laughs) then there's going to be room for multiple readings.

And the reverse is true as well. There's been a few strips over the years that are clearly aiming for something more complex as far as characterisation goes but they never clicked with me. Sometimes what you want is a story that states its aims loud and clear up front and sticks to them throughout. Or just some decent art.

[Tjm86]

It's also interesting to see how different people respond to the old thrills now, either through revisiting them, coming to them fresh, or remembering them nostalgically – rather than actually rereading them. There's a clear contingent of 'why did 2000 AD go woke?', holding up the 1970s comics as a bastion of quality. Then there are long-term fans who have an element of nostalgia in their thinking, but can approach the old comics critically and objectively.

I know what you mean.  There are a lot of old thrills that I still recall from the point of view of my 7 year old self with all the sensibilities that involves.  I think that's why I have such a soft spot for Death Planet, even though it is incredibly hackneyed.  It was one of the earliest stories that I connected with, partially I think because of that cover with the lead character. 

Robo-Hunter just blew my mind with the intricacy of the artwork.  The Verdus Gibson created was an amazing place, it just felt like a rabbit warren.  Then you had the insanely clear artwork of Gibbons and Bolland.  All this at a time when I'd just OD'd on the visuals of the first Star Wars film.

Yet re-reading those strips now it is clear that they've not aged well on some levels.  They were written for the age I and many others readers were at the time.  Some of the best strips are ageless.  Looking at them now there is still something that appeals to current generations at much as to those who first saw them.  Strontium Dog is, to my mind, a good example.  Tapping into that Western Vibe, giving it a Sci-Fi twist and adding in a dose of social commentary.  A lead character that was always a little removed but with a conscience that limited what he would accept ...

Tooth has definitely matured over the years and that has always been its strength.  Old characters have been revisited and occasionally, and with varying degrees of success, reimagined.  New characters have stretched our minds even further.  Even when tales don't quite click, they're still worth the while.

[broodblik]

I also see that the prog is not same as it was when it started. Mau people see it as a negative I see it as a positive. As the world changes around us the prog is also changing and evolving with the times. What was popular and spectacular yesterday is none event today. Stories that worked for the 70/80s just does not work anymore. Children of today has many  more distractions that yesterday so the weekly prog of yesterday worked for me but will not work for the younglings of today.

[broodblik]

I also want to add that I believe if prog 1 was published today I most likely would not have followed it.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Changing views on a character or strip I tend to think are a result of advanced writing - which I wouldn't automatically call "good writing" myself, as there's a number of strips over the years that are pretty straightforward that I also think are well written. But if there's a certain level of complexity or sophistication there (even if the strip is also going for broad laughs) then there's going to be room for multiple readings.

And the reverse is true as well. There's been a few strips over the years that are clearly aiming for something more complex as far as characterisation goes but they never clicked with me. Sometimes what you want is a story that states its aims loud and clear up front and sticks to them throughout. Or just some decent art.

I completely agree with all you say, but that's not exactly the point I was making in my first post.

 I was talking about how I perceived the characters in stories when I first read them (usually as a kid) and how I perceive them when I reread them as an adult.  I was thinking more about the difference between me as a naive young reader, when even the teenage Johnny Alpha looked grown up to me, and me as a jaded middle-aged reader, who is glad that at least Dredd is still older than me.

[IndigoPrime]

Children of today has many  more distractions that yesterday so the weekly prog of yesterday worked for me but will not work for the younglings of today.

Thing is, that's down to the storytelling more than the format. Many kids who get weekly comics love them. The problem is that we now have a generation of parents who never had that habit themselves, and so it's rapidly disappearing. When I tell friend about The Phoenix, a small number do try that six-week trial. (I mean, six comics for £1! Who wouldn't?) Most of them then end up sticking with it, because their kids invariably love getting some post and getting a great comic to read.

So today, you have the dual challenge of targeting the market with storytelling that will click and discovery. And one might argue you have a third challenge in some cases, in overriding the expectations of what a comic should be, based on the history of the parent. (See: the 'it wasn't like this in my day' brigade, raging about the audacity to have eg gay characters in comics.)

On the topic of re-reading, I'd second (third?) Strontium Dog as holding up well. I'll admit when reading through the Hachette books that I liked the classic run less than I thought I would (bar some high points like Rage) and the reboot more than I thought (bar Life and Death). But it to me largely didn't feel dated in the way, say, Robo-Hunter did. The one negative was Durham Red as a vixen-like Smurfette, which in itself would have been solved had three have been more diversity in the cast. But then diversity wasn't even a consideration for the vast majority of strips back then.

[Fortnight]

Thing is, that's down to the storytelling more than the format. Many kids who get weekly comics love them. The problem is that we now have a generation of parents who never had that habit themselves, and so it's rapidly disappearing. When I tell friend about The Phoenix, a small number do try that six-week trial. (I mean, six comics for £1! Who wouldn't?) Most of them then end up sticking with it, because their kids invariably love getting some post and getting a great comic to read.

So today, you have the dual challenge of targeting the market with storytelling that will click and discovery. And one might argue you have a third challenge in some cases, in overriding the expectations of what a comic should be, based on the history of the parent.

There's also the factor that many of the readers of comics of yesteryear are now adults with their own kids or grandkids. There's a generation or two of parents who grew up reading comics targeted at both them in their youth and them as adults. This has created a more stable [edit: +mainstream] culture for the "graphic novel."

Something my parents would sniffily refer to as "a comic" (complete with inverted commas in their tone), I call a comic book, or graphic novel with no condescension.

This means there's a target market with an ever decreasing tone of "aren't they just for kids?" inherent in their image acting as a barrier to new adult readers.

The graphic novel for those adults-to-be isn't just something you start reading as a kid and hark back to with nostalgia, like is it for us has-beens.

[IndigoPrime]

Yes, that's fair. The stigma of comics has been significantly reduced, and it's a medium in the UK that can now continue beyond childhood without fear of ridicule, presumably much to the bemusement of, say, French or Japanese readers who have for far longer had that.

But that flip side of the habit of comics just going away is palpable. Mini-IP's never had more than a handful of friends who've had a regular subscription. Although quite a few of them do have a small collection of collected comics.

I find it sad, because comics provide space for experimentation and the next thing. Publishing books is a very different market and one look at the children's section shows how dominated it is by very few series.

It'll be interesting to see if mini-IP in her own future has a discussion such as this one – and how different it would be.

[Steve Green]

I'd say that habit going away at the other end applies too.

I recently got rid of around 20 years worth of progs and megs, and it felt cathartic if I'm being honest.

I'd fallen out of love with, if not the prog, the ritual of reading a 6/7 page story a week and once that habit is broken I didn't feel the need to jump back in (and it's tricky even if I wanted to)

I've wondered if a monthly or longer fewer stories would scratch that itch, (I stuck with the Meg longer than the prog), but I think the days of me buying the prog and picking up collections are over - I'll pick up the collection occasionally, but space, money and inclination are all factors for me.

It just strikes me that if someone who got through the 90s is struggling with it, what an uphill struggle it must be to find new readers

[IndigoPrime]

Although those can be different things. As we age, we can feel the weight of habits as much as the joy of collections. Interests build and wane. I have two massive boxes of Zoids in the attic that I can't bear the thought of parting with but probably should because they're never going out on display again.

Comics... I get that too. I flirted with ditching my Progs too because we had nowhere to put them. They now live in our garage, on metal racking. But that space is finite too and so I'm not sure what'll happen if I'm still collecting the Prog in however many years it'll take to fill the remaining space. (Our main bookshelf in the living room is more or less at one-in-one-out for me now too.)

[Vector14]

I thought that Urban Strike was hilarious when I first read it...

[Colin YNWA]

I thought that Urban Strike was hilarious when I first read it...

Ouch - so did I?!?

[Funt Solo]

I thought that Urban Strike was hilarious when I first read it...

Ouch - so did I?!?

Wait, though - it is hilarious. It was just weird having an ad-strip in the comic. It's like the funting proto-version of Sinister Dexter.

[Vector14]

I thought that Urban Strike was hilarious when I first read it...

Ouch - so did I?!?

Wait, though - it is hilarious. It was just weird having an ad-strip in the comic. It's like the funting proto-version of Sinister Dexter.

I reread it recently and found it pretty tedious. But perhaps my humor receptors had been temporarily deactivated from all the vector 13 I had been trudging through alongside it.